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Monday, November 05, 2018

OTP 2018 2018 Nov 5 - The Trump dilemma hits the Boston Red Sox amid a wave of White House boycotts in sports

The Boston Red Sox, fresh off their historic World Series win, are the latest team to be faced with the Trump dilemma.

The team’s manager Alex Cora said that the Sox haven’t decided whether they will visit the White House if they’re invited by Trump, adding that he wants to use the team’s platform in the right way, according to the Associated Press.

 

“For me, I just don’t think it’s the right thing to do.” Connolly said in August, according to Sports Illustrated. “Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think there’ll be a few guys not going, too. Like I said, it has nothing to do with politics, it’s about what’s right and wrong, and we’ll leave it at that.”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 05, 2018 at 08:40 AM | 2346 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics, world series

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   1501. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 08, 2018 at 06:38 PM (#5784578)
I thought you guys were talking about Zach Duke this whole time and I was totally with Ray, like FOH that dude isn’t even gonna get ON the ballot, much less clear the 5% barrier.
   1502. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: November 08, 2018 at 06:38 PM (#5784579)
Is that your professional opinion as a lawyer?


Maybe he'd like to volunteer to get 3 ribs cracked so he can prove his point.
   1503. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 06:41 PM (#5784582)
For the record I think Duke is worse than Trump but Duke is not the president, so I don't think it matters.
   1504. zenbitz Posted: November 08, 2018 at 06:42 PM (#5784583)
Democrats just got power in the House and rather than focus exclusively on policies and laws that they think might help the people they claim to want to help, they're going to use their power to


1) don't concern troll, you wouldn't like it if they did.
2) neither would the senate
   1505. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 06:43 PM (#5784584)
The urban/rural divide was discussed a few pages back - and 538 mentioned it quite a bit on election night...

Now they've got a look and yeah - the suburbs became blue territory. Like, significantly blue territory - everywhere.
   1506. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 06:44 PM (#5784586)
Trump's tax returns. Lofl. What a bizarre issue to get hung up on.
   1507. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 06:48 PM (#5784588)
Somebody should probably tell Ray that the Democrats have no power to do anything right now and won't until January.

It'll be hard work though - remember, this is the guy who appears to be so addled that he didn't realize the overwhelming majority of Democratic ad spending went to health care.
   1508. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 06:52 PM (#5784589)
Here's some nifty maps from Bloomberg that looked at ad spend topics by Nielsen market.

Notice that despite Ray the Oracle -- the GOP actually spent more, quite a bit more, in fact - on pro-Trump ads than the Dems spent on Trump critical ads.
   1509. BDC Posted: November 08, 2018 at 07:06 PM (#5784592)
the ridiculous tradition of a presidential candidate releasing his or her tax returns


We all comply with ridiculous stuff at work or when dealing with bureaucracies. Just do it. Your least favorite person of all time did it, without a lot of whining that I recall. It's just a reasonable request in an open democracy.
   1510. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 08, 2018 at 07:10 PM (#5784594)
In Broward County, 695,799 people turned in ballots. But only 665,688 voted in the Senate race. That’s a 30,000 difference, a remarkable disparity given the stakes in this race and the name-recognition of these officials.

There are suggestions that there may have been a ballot design problem in Broward. Haven't seen the actual ballot, just reporting that some voters say they didn't see the Senate race on their ballot. It appears that both Scott & Nelson had a similar drop-off from the gubernatorial candidates, so that seems like a possibility. The lesson from Florida 2000 is that there is no after-the-fact remedy for such a situation. Given that experience, you'd think election officials would do everything to avoid such situations. Part of the problem may be that Florida is too lax on ballot access, allowing parties with little support to clutter the ballot. It appears that 9 parties made the 2018 Florida ballot. Most voters seem to have found both contests on their ballot, so it's primarily a user-error issue.
   1511. BDC Posted: November 08, 2018 at 07:12 PM (#5784596)
I was also going to ask: has the dead pimp in the Nevada legislature come up in this thread? Should they prop the guy up in a version of Legislative Session at Bernie's? Would he be any worse than the average Republican state legislator?
   1512. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 08, 2018 at 07:18 PM (#5784601)
I was also going to ask: has the dead pimp in the Nevada legislature come up in this thread? Should they prop the guy up in a version of Legislative Session at Bernie's? Would he be any worse than the average Republican state legislator?

Have a little respect for the deceased - he was a brothel owner, not a pimp. Nevada law allows the political party of a deceased winner to appoint a substitute to serve the entire term in the state legislature - no special election - so it's logical for voters to stick with the dead guy if he's from the poltical party they suppprt.
   1513. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 07:28 PM (#5784607)
I was also going to ask: has the dead pimp in the Nevada legislature come up in this thread? Should they prop the guy up in a version of Legislative Session at Bernie's? Would he be any worse than the average Republican state legislator?


Dennis Hof.

Yes.

He's an ass. Once while visiting my folks, I'm sitting at a sawdust casino visiting the 'rents... and this jackass is boisterously falling all over me. Nudges himself into a table. The silicon-in-a-dress he was with spilling her drink on me. And he gets kind of pissy because half the table wont' scoot around and give him some space.

I color out to find a table without the walking, talking ass with legs and arms - and my dad says to me "I see you met Dennis Hof".

The world will not miss him.


Have a little respect for the deceased - he was a brothel owner, not a pimp.


His autobiography is titled "The Art of the Pimp".
   1514. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 07:34 PM (#5784611)
While who knows what is going in Florida -

Sinema takes a 2011 vote lead in Arizona...
   1515. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 07:39 PM (#5784613)
   1516. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 07:41 PM (#5784614)
FL down to 15.6K
   1517. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 07:43 PM (#5784616)
Baud?
   1518. Howie Menckel Posted: November 08, 2018 at 07:55 PM (#5784621)
I'm just frustrated because the dead winner beat this NJ story
"Only in Jersey, right?

When news broke that Democratic U.S. Sen. Robert Menendez handily won another term Tuesday night, there was a noteworthy supporter at his victory part: a woman who served as a juror during his criminal trial.

Evelyn Arroyo-Maultsby, of Hillside, was among the Menendez supporters and Garden State politicos who crowded a small ballroom at a Hoboken hotel to celebrate his victory."

.............

yes, the juror was dismissed before the verdict (she had a vacation coming), but still. best part is she says, "He's really a good man. What they're saying about him is not true."

actually, the defense mostly was: "what you're saying about him IS true - but it isn't a crime."

the jury hung. Evelyn says she would have voted to acquit. I think we knew that already.
   1519. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: November 08, 2018 at 08:05 PM (#5784624)
The best part of that story, Howie, is that Hugin spent 36 million dollars of his OWN MONEY to lose that election. LOLOLOLOLOL!!! How bad of a candidate do you have to be to spend that amount of money (plus whatever he raised from donors) and lose to someone like Menendez? Real piece of #### bad is my guess.
   1520. McCoy Posted: November 08, 2018 at 08:27 PM (#5784628)
Sinema is at an over 9,000 vote lead. Yee-ah
   1521. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 08, 2018 at 08:31 PM (#5784630)
You’ll note that Ray has only recently broken out the “all of this is just so silly and meaningless “ nihilism when it became apparent Trump needed defending.
   1522. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 08, 2018 at 08:37 PM (#5784632)
Sinema is at an over 9,000 vote lead. Yee-ah


That one seems over. Things have gone about as well as possible over the last 48 hours for the Dems and the media was stupid to be falling all over themselves reporting (especially Fox) the great GOP gains in the Senate. It looks like they are going to have a dogfight on their hands in 2020 now.

   1523. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 08:49 PM (#5784638)
One of those votes is mine.

dasvidaniya, Dana ...
   1524. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: November 08, 2018 at 08:49 PM (#5784639)
You’ll note that Ray has only recently broken out the “all of this is just so silly and meaningless “ nihilism when it became apparent Trump needed defending.


He's a good little toady. I can only imagine him fawning over Don Jr. at that cocktail party.
   1525. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5784645)
One of those votes is mine.

dasvidaniya, Dana ...


Ladies and gentlemen, meet our next Ambassador to Russia.
   1526. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:05 PM (#5784647)
By announcing the GOP “wins” before the full counts they set up the “stolen elections” narrative to dual track with their resident fascist regime’s obvious attempts to install toadies and sycophants while gutting independent media.
   1527. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:05 PM (#5784648)
“Wow, do you work out...too?”
   1528. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:08 PM (#5784650)
If you watch "Our Cartoon President"...Ray strikes me more of a friend of Eric's than of Don Jr's.
   1529. zenbitz Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:10 PM (#5784652)
The best part of that story, Howie, is that Hugin spent 36 million dollars of his OWN MONEY to lose that election


Is there somewhere I can find a correlation of money spend and margin (or deficit) of victory?
   1530. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:12 PM (#5784653)
Ladies and gentlemen, meet our next Ambassador to Russia.


CoB? No way.

For the past 21 years my rep in congress has been Barney Frank and now Joe Kennedy. I've never experienced the joy of contributing to the unseating of a douche bag like Rohrabacher.
   1531. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5784654)
By announcing the GOP “wins” before the full counts they set up the “stolen elections” narrative to dual track with their resident fascist regime’s obvious attempts to install toadies and sycophants while gutting independent media.


Don't tell Laura Ingraham according to her "it was a very, very good night for Republicans and a major win for Donald Trump."

Stunning that an employee of the the official propaganda wing of the Trump GOP would write that. Stunning I tell you! It's almost like her fellow anchor appeared at a rally with Trump.

Imagine the the screeching of the GOP and Clapper types if Acosta was campaigning openly on stage for Ocosta. Imagine that it wasn't a one off thing but pretty much a recurring 9pm infomercial. What a time, to be alive.
   1532. zenbitz Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5784655)
By announcing the GOP “wins” before the full counts they set up the “stolen elections” narrative


I see you are still FB friends with JE. He reposted some Lil' Marco whining about Dems falsifying votes. There is also an video from a voting machine in Indiana, featuring my friend Tobi Beck (she got crushed 64-36 in IN 4th). Also the only candidate I ever donated to.
   1533. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:20 PM (#5784656)
Scroll to find Rohrabacher.

"Earlier this year, he said he thought homeowners should be allowed to refuse to sell their houses to gay and lesbian buyers."
   1534. Lassus Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:25 PM (#5784658)
Trump's tax returns. Lofl. What a bizarre issue to get hung up on.

It is logical that lies are inconsequential to nihilists.
   1535. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5784659)
   1536. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:41 PM (#5784663)
The Tucker Carlson threats are being investigated as a hate crime.
   1537. McCoy Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:42 PM (#5784664)
Who did Tucker threaten?
   1538. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:42 PM (#5784665)
@ShaneGoldmacher
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, currently without an income, needs to wait until her congressional salary kicks in to get a DC apartment.

"I’ve really been just kind of squirreling away and then hoping that gets me to January,” she tells @Azi. nytimes.com/2018/11/07/...


@Ocasio2018
There are many little ways in which our electoral system isn’t even designed (nor prepared) for working-class people to lead.

This is one of them (don’t worry btw - we’re working it out!)
   1539. McCoy Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:47 PM (#5784666)
Many little ways? How about the fact that you basically have to campaign for close to a year?
   1540. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:49 PM (#5784667)
Matthew Yglesias, the hero to some here, tweeted the following (you have to google it to find it because he apparently has deleted his tweets, which is why the below comes from the Washington Times which is the first link Google pulled up):

“I honestly cannot empathize with Tucker Carlson’s wife at all — I agree that protesting at her house was tactically unwise and shouldn’t be done — but I am utterly unable to identify with her plight on any level,” Mr. Yglesias started a string of tweets.

"I think the idea behind terrorizing his family, like it or not as a strategy, is to make them feel some of the fear that the victims of MAGA-inspired violence feel thanks to the non-stop racial incitement coming from Tucker, Trump, etc. I agree that this is probably not tactically sound but if your instinct is to empathize with the fear of the Carlson family rather than with the fear of his victims then you should take a moment to reflect on why that is.”


Threatening people because you disagree with their views -- including waiting until you know he's not in the home to target his wife -- is really not a good look.

Yglesias seems to lack empathy.
   1541. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5784668)
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, currently without an income, needs to wait until her congressional salary kicks in to get a DC apartment.


GMAFB. There are literally a hundred people that would lend her the money or allow her to stay pro-bono as long as she wants. FFS it's part of the gig. I'm not a big fan of hers personally. I appreciate her policies but I don't think she's a particularly gifted politician. That's a really stupid thing to say. ####, at the STATE level of representation she'd have places to stay.

Threatening people because you disagree with their views -- including waiting until you know he's not in the home to target his wife -- is really not a good look.


Tucker Carlson goes on TV nightly and incites violence against POC. Again, I oft repeat it: it's not so fun when the Rabbit picks up the shotgun. Tucker will never fear for his life like a marginalized WOC walking barefoot and pregnant through Central America but perhaps his wife's hysteria might convince him to tone down the rhetoric a bit.
   1542. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5784669)
Ray in 1540- Yeah, I shared Matty’s tweet earlier, along with Liz Bruenig’s heartening response:

@EBruenig
This is a nasty feedback loop I really wish our shitty country weren't playing around with, but here we are

@EBruenig
As we enter into some troubling times as a country I think it's important to emphasize that Christians have a moral obligation to avoid violence, seek peace and treasure human life
   1543. McCoy Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5784671)
The interesting thing will be having to pay rent on an apartment in DC and an apartment in the Bronx. Perhaps she can live in her district office when she returns to NYC.

She is in a tough spot in that I doubt she's going to want a microstudio apartment in DC or a basement apart in an old house. The first will still probably run you about 1800 to 2000 and the other is probably about 1500 in a decentish neighborhood. I'm guessing she is going to at least have a $3000 a month apartment in DC. Have no real idea where she would live in the Bronx but I'm guessing it will be about $1800. After all the fees and services I'm guessing she could be spending at least $60,000 a year on apartments which would probably be half her take home. Not exactly a tough slide into the poor house for sure and she, as far as I know, doesn't have to worry about school and daycare expenses so she'll have a nice chunk of change going into her bank account. But it does show how fast the bills can pile up in expensive cities.
   1544. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 08, 2018 at 09:59 PM (#5784672)
She is in a tough spot in that I doubt she's going to want a microstudio apartment in DC or a basement apart in an old house. The first will still probably run you about 1800 to 2000 and the other is probably about 1500 in a decentish neighborhood. I'm guessing she is going to at least have a $3000 a month apartment in DC. Have no real idea where she would live in the Bronx but I'm guessing it will be about $1800. After all the fees and services I'm guessing she could be spending at least $60,000 a year on apartments which would probably be half her take home. Not exactly a tough slide into the poor house for sure and she, as far as I know, doesn't have to worry about school and daycare expenses so she'll have a nice chunk of change going into her bank account. But it does show how fast the bills can pile up in expensive cities.


Dude her spigot is on. She's being disingenuous at absolute best. She's a ####### Congresswoman now. The regular rates don't apply.

As we enter into some troubling times as a country I think it's important to emphasize that Christians have a moral obligation to avoid violence, seek peace and treasure human life


Good lord that is some fine ass virtue signalling there. What a meaningless declaration.
   1545. McCoy Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:01 PM (#5784673)
GMAFB. There are literally a hundred people that would lend her the money or allow her to stay pro-bono as long as she wants. FFS it's part of the gig. I'm not a big fan of hers personally. I appreciate her policies but I don't think she's a particularly gifted politician. That's a really stupid thing to say. ####, at the STATE level of representation she'd have places to stay.


I'm pretty sure this was just a "look at me, I'm one of the common folks still" tweets. As she stated this isn't really an issue for her but she gets to keep posting about "TEH STRUGGLE" despite being on the verge of making $172,000 a year, great benefits, and a budget well north of a million dollars for her offices, staff, and needs as a congresswoman.
   1546. McCoy Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:03 PM (#5784674)
The regular rates don't apply.

We've seen how well that worked out in the Trump administration.
   1547. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:06 PM (#5784675)
I'm pretty sure this was just a "look at me, I'm one of the common folks still" tweets. As she stated this isn't really an issue for her but she gets to keep posting about "TEH STRUGGLE" despite being on the verge of making $172,000 a year, great benefits, and a budget well north of a million dollars for her offices, staff, and needs as a congresswoman.


Hey I agree it's a sack of bullshit. The million dollar budget pretty much ensures her a, let's just say "symbiotic" relationship with someone that would provide housing in exchange for well, a cushy "constituent relations" position. It's always that position that the hacks get in my experience.

The millenial blogger turned WaPo religion columnist Davo quoted is quite the piece of work on Twitter. Like so many younger media people she appears to basically be employed based on her non stop ability to tweet.
   1548. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5784676)
I really don't care much about looks anymore.

Commit a crime, get charged, trials, verdict, penalty. Whatever.

As I posted last page - Blasey-Ford is still getting death threats, still in hiding, and she's not nearly as wealthy as Tucker nor does she have a cable news apparatus decrying her harassment, nor does anyone really care anymore.

So whatever.

The difference between Blasey-Ford and Carlson is that Carlson is certainly safer, more people will be saying "how terrible", and Carlson is a central, visible, public part of modern politics.

I'm not harassing Carlson. I don't know anyone who is.

I'm not harassing Blasey-Ford. I don't know anyone who is.

I do know a lot more people who are - via social media, at least - continue to decry her as some Soros-funded liar-harpy who should go to jail. I actually don't know anyone who has said a word about Carlson, one way or another. And Carlson is certainly more famous than Blasey-Ford.

All things considered? I'd rather be Carlson than Blasey-Ford. Can anyone honestly claim they'd pick otherwise?
   1549. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5784677)
So whatever.


This response seems to lack empathy.
   1550. McCoy Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5784678)
Her?
   1551. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:14 PM (#5784679)
Dude her spigot is on. She's being disingenuous at absolute best. She's a ####### Congresswoman now. The regular rates don't apply.


It's not exactly that easy.

First of all, now there are rules to who/how/etc that money can come her way.

Second, given her stated politics and ideology - she's not exactly going to have some friend-of-a-friend usual suspects giving her a wink-wink "Here's a nice brownstone you ran *rent* for X below market".

I mean, seriously - she's quite unlikely to ever go hungry again... and it seems to me that she's said exactly that.

But - she's a 29 yo activist/bartender who knocked off a (perfectly voting-record fine) local machine Democrat.

Let's not pretend otherwise.

Maybe she bites on what I'm sure are no shortage of corrupt-bargain offers... maybe she doesn't.

It's a disservice - and she's to the left of me, too - to pretend that she's just some assembly-line politico who just won a payday.

   1552. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5784680)
So whatever.

This response seems to lack empathy.


I have plenty of empathy. It's just not infinite or unlimited. So I spend it where I think it is most valuable and necessary.
   1553. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:31 PM (#5784685)
Mini-Bush!

“Late Tuesday night our win was projected about 57,000 votes. By Wednesday morning that lead dropped to 38,000 votes. By Wednesday evening, it was around 30,000 votes. This morning, it was around 21,000. Now, it is 15,000,.”

And then this.

“Every Floridan should be concerned that their could be rampant fraud happening in Broward and Palm Beach Counties.




I understand the 2000 Brooks Brothers rioters are back... this time in khakis and MAGA hats.

Hopefully, Nelson and the Dems don't knuckle under with a bunch "well, golly, I guess the transition needs to start".

You wanna avoid this kind of thing rather manipulate it?

Support stuff like vote by mail. Make sure dense, urban districts have the money they need to handle big numbers voting. Hell, open more precincts. Instead of tinkering around to make things more difficult for legitimate, eligible voters to vote - make it easier.

Hell - create a system that allows voting to be easy, accessible, and clear? Fingerprint the voters. Whatever. I'll give you all the election security you want against voter fraud if you match me every step of the way for accessibility. That's a no-brainer in my mind.

   1554. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:31 PM (#5784686)
Turley agrees that Jim Acosta is no Jim Accost-her. Turley comments further as follows:

CNN should address the conduct of its own reporter in his refusal to yield the mike and the floor. It seemed to me that Acosta, who I kn[o]w and like, was trying to argue with the President. I have no problem with reporters shouting outside to get responses from a president but this is a formal White House press conference. Reporters are given opportunities to ask questions but they are expected to yield the floor to waiting reporters.

None of this changes the fact that the President’s tirade was highly improper and chilling in calling Acosta the “enemy of the people.” That hyperbolic language is damaging to the Office of the President and potentially dangerous for Acosta and other journalists.


Acosta is owed an apology and should be given his press privileges back. It's ridiculous to suggest he assaulted the White House intern. However we can stop calling him a "reporter." "Opinion reporter" fits better, as his bias shows through often.
   1555. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:33 PM (#5784687)
Acosta is owed an apology and should be given his press privileges back. It's ridiculous to suggest he assaulted the White House intern. However we can stop calling him a "reporter." "Opinion reporter" fits better, as his bias shows through often.


Oh.

I guess you missed my relaying of the transcript between Major Garrett's 2015 question and Obama's response.

Would you like me to repeat it?

Funny how prior Presidents and White Houses have managed to survive such stuff.
   1556. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5784688)
Sorry zonk I worked with too many pols to listen to a congresswoman elect cry poor about her budget to move to DC. Even the good ones are in for the kickbacks. At the very least, she could get a relatively borrower friendly personal loan. I would also imagine that she has a transition budget. Airbnb exists. As do trains. She doesn't have to move to DC now. Make it work. It's a bad look imo.
   1557. Howie Menckel Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5784689)
Turley - a life-long Democrat who often criticizes Trump and right-wing stances - lost the BBTF room months ago.

even this latest missive won't gain him any ground here, I suspect. his fealty to the true party line remains suspect.

his career as a brilliant attorney but his unpredictable comments, at this point, probably has left him as an outcast on both extremes. he is failing to "pick a side," which is becoming increasingly problematic these days.

or - just spitballing here - maybe he knows what the hell he is talking about.
   1558. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 08, 2018 at 10:57 PM (#5784696)
All things considered? I'd rather be Carlson than Blasey-Ford. Can anyone honestly claim they'd pick otherwise?

Well, except for one little thing: If you're Tucker Carlson, you have to live with yourself. I wouldn't want that for pretty much anything in the world.

Would you want to be a 40 year old Donald Trump equipped with a crystal ball that could see 32 years into the future? I don't think so.
   1559. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:06 PM (#5784700)
Trump tweeting about "corruption" and "fraud" in Broward. What an absolute POS. So when your guy was winning it was legit but now that all the votes from an urban area are being counted it's not? #### off.

All things considered? I'd rather be Carlson than Blasey-Ford. Can anyone honestly claim they'd pick otherwise?


Do I have to wear the bow-tie?
   1560. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:07 PM (#5784701)
Sorry zonk I worked with too many pols to listen to a congresswoman elect cry poor about her budget to move to DC. Even the good ones are in for the kickbacks.


But that's the thing. She's not a pol. At most, you might say she's an urban activist. And what's more - she knocked off a major player. AND she did so with a political ideology (at least, economically) that is likely to cut off some significant income sources.

I get the cynicism.

But where does it end?

I've got a friend - I wouldn't call him a dear friend or a close friend - but someone I've played euchre with, let's say - who is running for mayor of Madison (FWIW - if you're in Madison vote Raj!)

He's a good guy. While he never specifically said so, I always imagined he'd one day run for office - and I'm glad he is. He's an environmentalist, went to grad school for a masters (the period I met him via a friend) in the area, and has since worked for some nfps and policy tanks. But he's genuinely a good guy - even if one doesn't agree with his politics, just a nice, solid guy. He's not running to build his bank account - truth be told, he's got an uphill climb.

It's entirely possible I'm a shitty judge of character, so what do I know... I'm just saying that there ARE legitimately people who get into politics for the legitimately right reasons and do the best they can - I'll even say better than I'd suspect I'd do - trying to be and do what we ideally would like politicians to be and do.

I don't know Ocasio-Cortez, but just because someone reported on the realities - I mean, come one people... she tweeted a response to an NYT - including a (BTW- don't worry about it we're working it out).

Gen X cynicism went out of style 20 years ago.
   1561. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:07 PM (#5784702)
Still no empathy from our progressive friends here for threats of violence against someone whose views they disagree with.
   1562. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:08 PM (#5784704)
The millenial blogger turned WaPo religion columnist Davo quoted is quite the piece of work on Twitter. Like so many younger media people she appears to basically be employed based on her non stop ability to tweet.

That seems an unfairly dismissive description of her work.
   1563. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:18 PM (#5784706)
Matthew Yglesias, the hero to some here

To whom here is he a hero?
   1564. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:19 PM (#5784707)
1561. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:07 PM (#5784702)
Still no empathy from our progressive friends here for threats of violence against someone whose views they disagree with.

I have done literally that multiple times. One was in direct response to you (1542)!
   1565. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:21 PM (#5784708)
MOre...

But AOC didn't start running around crying about it FFS!

The NYT - which is, you know, a newspaper supposedly covering her district - ran a story. She answered the questions. She tweeted a response don't worry about it.

It's the ####### reality, people. This isn't Sean Duffy - complaining in term, what... 3? that $172K isn't enough to live on.

She's newly elected.

If I were just elected? I'm not going to be homeless - but yeah... It wouldn't exactly be "whatever, just carry two leases". I've got an emergency fund at the levels one is supposed to be. I've got a 401k I could tap into. I've got some liquidity aside I guess I could tap into.... and yeah, I've a fairly empty aggregation of lines of credit (read: credit cards) I could certainly tap into to pay what I needed to pay.

I'd be stepping into a job that does pay more than I make now - not to mention, the lifetime health/retiremetn benefits - plus, the fact that so long as I don't go to jail, more or less ensure homelessness will never be a concern.

I wouldn't be screwed by any stretch... but it would force me to do some liquidations and make some living arrangement decisions that I'd rather not. I.e., I do need to maintain my/a residence in my district... and I need to live/work in DC for ~6 nonconsecutive months. I'd also need to quit my current job. All things considered? I'd still come out ahead - even without any grift and graft - if I was walking into a two-year 172K contract job.

My point is that we should be happy and encouraging more AOCs to seek and achieve elected office.... not fewer.
   1566. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:22 PM (#5784709)
That seems an unfairly dismissive description of her work.


Sorry dude the whole God in the sky thing just doesn't do it for me. I find it laughable that she's basically found a niche in leftist journalism as a "pro life socialist" (talk about a snowflake, christ the MSM eats that #### up) and it's gotten her all the way to WaPo at 28. I guess I'm a bit jealous, but then again I wasn't organizing outreach at religious college at 20 either like she was. Good for her, but yea, I don't have any reason to listen to her or respect what she has to say. That tweet about non violence was incredibly ####### naive. She should read some Thucydides -- or perhaps Old Testament.
   1567. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:27 PM (#5784711)
Here's what I'd propose -

Complete financial transparency - not just tax returns, but also report your bank accounts, retirement accounts, debts, you name it - and in exchange, if you fall below the median for your district, you get free room and board at a Congressional dormitory.

This would be a good and fine thing.
   1568. Lassus Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:29 PM (#5784713)
Wall, not to be that guy, but you're a little young to be world-weary. You ain't the only one who has worked with, for, or knows politicians.
   1569. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:33 PM (#5784715)
Finally saw the Pete Davidson bit that had Howie wetting his meundies. Can u say...nothingburger. Fortunately, the gentleman elected to Congress kept his cool (and didn’t wet his meundies like Howie did):
From the podium, Crenshaw recognized people from his team, including the man who persuaded him to run, while mentioning the "SNL" moment.

“He's upset because the recent 'Saturday Night Live' controversy has resulted in me having more Twitter followers than (him)," Crenshaw cracked.

Later, Crenshaw remarked Americans "are not a people that shatter at the first sign of offense" which resulted in laughter from the crowd.

Speaking with Ivory Hecker of Houston's FOX 26, Crenshaw said he wanted his supporters to know "SEALs don't get offended. That's just not what we do. That doesn't mean it wasn't offensive, but let's stop demanding apologies and firings of people. Let's just... demand that comedy actually be funny, but let's be good people."

Republicans like Howie get offended, though. That’s what they do (while also soakimg their meundies because they piss themselves after getting offended).
   1570. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:35 PM (#5784716)
Wall, not to be that guy, but you're a little young to be world-weary. You ain't the only one who has worked with, for, or knows politicians.


Fair enough. She's no Sheldon Silver, not yet anyways. Or maybe Malcolm Smith.
   1571. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:39 PM (#5784718)
1566-Your disdain for religion is obvious, but that’s no excuse for historical ignorance. Christian Socialism (and particularly Bruenig's own Catholic socialism) has an extremely long and storied intellectual tradition. Tolstoy, MLK, Peter Maurin, Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker Movement...that’s no snowflake.
   1572. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:45 PM (#5784720)
You wanna avoid this kind of thing rather manipulate it? Support stuff like vote by mail. Make sure dense, urban districts have the money they need to handle big numbers voting. Hell, open more precincts. Instead of tinkering around to make things more difficult for legitimate, eligible voters to vote - make it easier.

Florida already has Vote By Mail, and the other counties seem to be able to count the ballots in a timely manner, as is also the case almost everywhere in the country. Broward can't, or won't, even say how many ballots remain to be counted, which is highly unusual. There's a long history of incompetence there, and it's more than appropriate that there is some scrutiny of the vote counting.
   1573. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: November 08, 2018 at 11:58 PM (#5784722)
   1574. Howie Menckel Posted: November 09, 2018 at 12:01 AM (#5784725)
add Hot Wheeling to the list of idiots here who think I am or ever have been a Republican (the list is growing, I think, and is symptomatic of where we are these days).

and I demanded no firing of Davidson - that would be ridiculous.

he showed himself to be a pitiful 'bro dude', though, and I objected to ridiculing someone who suffered a lifelong injury in wartime. maybe having a father whose co-pilot was killed in a B-17 mission over Germany in WW II makes me a 'snowflake,' you #######. my father had to remove the co-pilot from the cockpit. can't wait to see your snark on that.

but my objection has less than zero to do with the political party of the veteran (my own district just elected a former Navy helicopter pilot - who is a Democrat. I ain't moving.).

I respect the veteran's unwillingness to be dragged down into such a mudpit.

and your sophomoric 'meundies' comments aren't exactly elevating your cause in the square of public opinion, I would posit.
   1575. tshipman Posted: November 09, 2018 at 12:33 AM (#5784728)
add Hot Wheeling to the list of idiots here who think I am or ever have been a Republican (the list is growing, I think, and is symptomatic of where we are these days).


What gives me pause, Howie, is that people from both sides have called you a Republican.

So if people from both sides say it, it must be true.
   1576. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 09, 2018 at 12:34 AM (#5784729)
Meh, broken ribs isn't a big deal, even in old people. Now, if she had broken a hip it would have been the end.

Well, it it's the 2nd or 3rd time Justice Ginsburg has fractured her ribs in a fall, so it's a bit concerning. Also, the fall came in her Supreme Court office, presumably while engaged in normal work activity, not an in-chambers rugby scrimmage. Despite the hype about the Notorious RBG exercise program, she's still a frail 85-year old woman. By all appearances she's still up to the job, but you have to worry that the next time could be a hip rather than a rib.
   1577. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 09, 2018 at 12:51 AM (#5784730)
Hey Davo. Enjoy. What you think about the gays?

Such real lyrics, go Sufjan!

How much sorrow can I take?
Blackbird on my shoulder
And what difference does it make
When this love is over?
Shall I sleep within your bed
River of unhappiness
Hold your hands upon my head
Till I breathe my last breath



1566-Your disdain for religion is obvious, but that’s no excuse for historical ignorance. Christian Socialism (and particularly Bruenig's own Catholic socialism) has an extremely long and storied intellectual tradition. Tolstoy, MLK, Peter Maurin, Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker Movement...that’s no snowflake.


Meh, I read Augustine and Aquinas, good thinkers, incredibly wrong on the origins of morality and the so called "first mover". My religion is a few drinks and Sufjan Stevens. Or maybe Mobb Deep or some ####.
   1578. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: November 09, 2018 at 12:56 AM (#5784731)
add Hot Wheeling to the list of idiots here who think I am or ever have been a Republican (the list is growing, I think, and is symptomatic of where we are these days).

Or perhaps it is symptomatic of where you are these days.
   1579. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: November 09, 2018 at 12:59 AM (#5784732)
Meh, I read Augustine and Aquinas, good thinkers, incredibly wrong on the origins of morality and the so called "first mover".

Aquinas starts with his conclusion, and works backwards from there. That is the opposite of a good thinker.
   1580. base ball chick Posted: November 09, 2018 at 01:00 AM (#5784733)
Howie Menckel Posted: November 09, 2018 at 12:01 AM (#5784725)

add Hot Wheeling to the list of idiots here who think I am or ever have been a Republican (the list is growing, I think, and is symptomatic of where we are these days).


- perhaps you could clarify

Do you support donald trump? did you vote for him? do you vote for republican candidates more frequently than democrats?
   1581. Howie Menckel Posted: November 09, 2018 at 02:04 AM (#5784738)
perhaps you could clarify

Do you support donald trump? did you vote for him? do you vote for republican candidates more frequently than democrats?

bbc may be the last sane voice here, so I respond:

- no
- no
- no

a legitimate list of questions, compared to the earlier trolling.

even in the baseball forums, I wondered if bbc wondered if she just got more responses as a rare female and that's all.

that doesn't hurt - but consistently producing more thought-provoking posts than most others on the board also is relevant.

note that bbc's questions are mostly similar to my points about the kind of "Trump, are you a racist?" White House inference questions a page or two ago.

she has as much - or more - standing than anybody here to take a lower ground, but she doesn't - maybe she knows that I am willing to listen, but that doesn't matter much.

we still need to have a conversation.
   1582. base ball chick Posted: November 09, 2018 at 02:26 AM (#5784741)
howie

i think i am no longer a curiosity for those of us who have been here for the last 15 years (my GOD) i been posting. i remember all those - you can't be a GRRRL, you are talking about baseball, not players asses - comments the first few years. along with all the comments about how i can't write good, talk good, think good - and no eddication cree denshuls on this here board of ultra eddicated folks

i disbelieve in lower grounds, trolling and name calling, and swearing at people i am trying to converse with

it has been very hard for me dealing with so many people i know who vote for trump. because i know what that means they think of people like me. regardless of what comes out of their computers

i like conversing. and clarity
   1583. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 09, 2018 at 03:23 AM (#5784743)
I’m famously away with family on Walt Disney’s corpse this week (fun fact: actually went to Legoland today, so not Disney at all) so I have not been keeping up with OTP even a little, so it’s very possible I will owe all the Coca-Cola in Florida for posting this now, but:
I could be mistaken, but I understand one of the arguments made after the Pittsburgh shooting (and other similar events) was that if there'd been armed guards on premise, or more citizens with guns nearby, that these things wouldn't be so bad, or prevented, or something.

Seems to me that if crazy guy takes it upon himself to kill a bunch of people, crazy guy probably isn't rationally factoring in a whole lot of things.
But it’s not the case that crazy and irrational are the same thing. People who plan mass shootings are certainly insane, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t respond to incentives. For example, and a salient point for me this week: Mateen, the Orlando nightclub shooter, scouted out his target; he was reported by law enforcement to have rejected WDW as an option because of security. Crazy people still have goals, and they want to accomplish those goals.
   1584. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 09, 2018 at 03:40 AM (#5784744)
I'm pretty sure the Secretary of State is an elected office in every state - so yes, it's partisan.
No, it’s not an elected office in every state. Every state is different. In N.J., for instance, the only statewide elected official until about a decade ago was the governor; we since added lieutenant governor to that list after a weird series of events led us to have like 16 different governors in a week. (Note: hyperbole.). New York has more elected statewide officials, but no elected SoS. Ditto for Maryland. Those are the states I know, and a quick check shows that many other states are similar.

But most if not all of the ones that don’t have elected SoSs have appointed ones - it’s a cabinet position, not a civil service one - so they’re still likely to be partisan.
   1585. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 09, 2018 at 03:43 AM (#5784745)
Crazy people still have goals, and they want to accomplish those goals.
So if you put an armed guard out in front of your church or club, that crazy person's first target will be the guard. Crazy, but not irrational.
   1586. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 09, 2018 at 03:46 AM (#5784746)
I don't recall this discussion but I'm happy to tell everyone right here and now the amount I've contributed to political campaigns over the course of my lifetime:

Perhaps it was David. I know it was two people
It was not. I tossed some token money at Gary Johnson this time around, and other than that, no and never.
   1587. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 09, 2018 at 04:01 AM (#5784747)
the ridiculous tradition of a presidential candidate releasing his or her tax returns
Just a reminder: Ray only thinks it’s “ridiculous” because it might¹ hurt Trump. The issue for Ray isn’t privacy or anything like that; the issue is that because Trump’s opponents want the information, he thinks Trump shouldn’t release it. (Remember: Trump has a moral obligation to collude with Russia, and anyone who didn’t try to assassinate Trump wasn’t serious about being NeverTrump.)


¹I doubt it. Personal tax returns just don’t have the type of information on them that liberals itching for them seem to think they have. (Which is odd, because you’d think even most liberals would’ve filled out a tax return in their lives.) At most, they’ll show that Trump hasn’t made as much money as he pretends and isn’t charitable. Even if those were going to sway votes – Biden gave virtually zero to charity; we had a discussion about it on OTP, and nobody cared – they would’ve done so in 2016 but not now. He’s a known commodity now and his support/opposition is hardened, and his supporters would just explain away him not making money as some sort of clever business practices.
   1588. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 09, 2018 at 04:05 AM (#5784748)
The best part of that story, Howie, is that Hugin spent 36 million dollars of his OWN MONEY to lose that election. LOLOLOLOLOL!!! How bad of a candidate do you have to be to spend that amount of money (plus whatever he raised from donors) and lose to someone like Menendez? Real piece of #### bad is my guess.
I opposed Hugin - not that I supported Melendez, and not that it mattered - because he was a Trumpkin, but this is just stupid. NJ is simply a reflexively blue state with a moribund GOP. Hugin didn’t lose because of anything “bad” about himself other than the “R” after his name. His candidacy was DOA.
   1589. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 09, 2018 at 04:18 AM (#5784749)
All things considered? I'd rather be Carlson than Blasey-Ford. Can anyone honestly claim they'd pick otherwise?
If by that you mean picking their situations, rather than actually being them, yes. Show me people actually physically accosting Ford and/or her family, rather than people saying mean things to her on twitter which people are pretending are actually credible “death threats,” and I’ll change my mind.
   1590. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 09, 2018 at 05:49 AM (#5784750)
The Tucker Carlson threats are being investigated as a hate crime


Yglesias seems to lack empathy


This response seems to lack empathy


Still no empathy from our progressive friends here for threats of violence against someone whose views they disagree with.


Well the virtue signaling module is functional.
   1591. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 09, 2018 at 05:51 AM (#5784751)
Matthew Yglesias, the hero to some here

To whom here is he a hero?


He has in his hands a list of 13 Primates who have sworn eternal fealty to Matthew Yglesias.

No, you can’t see it.
   1592. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 09, 2018 at 06:03 AM (#5784752)
add Hot Wheeling to the list of idiots here who think I am or ever have been a Republican (the list is growing, I think, and is symptomatic of where we are these days).


I think it’s because you write so many stupid things people start to assume you have to be a Republican.
   1593. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 09, 2018 at 06:13 AM (#5784753)
Florida already has Vote By Mail, and the other counties seem to be able to count the ballots in a timely manner, as is also the case almost everywhere in the country. Broward can't, or won't, even say how many ballots remain to be counted, which is highly unusual. There's a long history of incompetence there, and it's more than appropriate that there is some scrutiny of the vote counting.


Insightful observers know who is to blame here: Hillary Clinton.

If I’m understanding this correctly, he’s arguing that the last county to submit vote tallies is supposed to stop counting as soon as the second-to-last county submits their results. That’s a hot take!
   1594. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 09, 2018 at 06:37 AM (#5784754)
Breitbart going all-in on the Race War.

Breitbart is truly a piece of work. The author of that racist screed,** John Binder, is actually Breitbart's fashion critic. And rather ironically for someone who seems to be hung up on the horrors of feminism, I defy anyone who looks as the picture of him in that link to tell me that he doesn't look like a woman.

** The headline ("Districts with Large Foreign-Born Populations Sent Far-Left Democrats to Congress") is quite reflective of what comes below it.
   1595. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 09, 2018 at 06:43 AM (#5784755)
Insightful observers know who is to blame here: Hillary Clinton.

If I’m understanding this correctly, he’s arguing that the last county to submit vote tallies is supposed to stop counting as soon as the second-to-last county submits their results. That’s a hot take!


You can't make things like this up. Here's what Redass Rudy Giuliani tweeted, quoted verbatim:
Hillary’s lawyers trying to steal Florida election. They are still counting(or creating)ballots just in Democratic Broward and Palm Beach. All other votes counted in the state. Court should disqualify votes counted only after all other counties were finished.
   1596. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: November 09, 2018 at 07:15 AM (#5784757)
1588...Stupid? Stupid is spending 36 million of your own dollars in a reflexively blue state with a moribund GOP.
   1597. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: November 09, 2018 at 07:16 AM (#5784758)
Howie calling other unnamed people "idiots" is rich. The lightest of lightweights.
   1598. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 09, 2018 at 07:43 AM (#5784759)
Howie's just trying to be "evenhanded", and like a lot of other people in his position, simply doesn't understand the threat that Trump represents to our democracy on an almost infinite number of levels. He understands that Trump's not "normal", but he steadfastly refuses to address the implications of that understanding, and what the media's proper role should be in combating the 24/7 barrage of corruption and lies emanating from the White House noise machine.

I'd love to see how Howie would question Trump, for instance, on the matter of his new Acting Attorney General's role in promoting a business scam.** What sort of followup questions would he ask when Trump inevitably branded the stories "fake news"? And if Trump persisted in dodging and / or lying, would Howie just move on to the next question, on the grounds that to demand an answer to his first question would constitute "harassment"? Where does "civility" end and sheer supination begin?

** Before he led the Justice Department, Matthew G. Whitaker promoted company accused of deceiving clients
   1599. BDC Posted: November 09, 2018 at 07:58 AM (#5784760)
a weird series of events led us to have like 16 different governors in a week


The last of whom was McGreevey, still the subject of the greatest Onion headline: HOMOSEXUAL TEARFULLY ADMITS TO BEING GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY
   1600. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: November 09, 2018 at 08:15 AM (#5784761)
I tossed some token money at Gary Johnson this time around, and other than that, no and never.


Then you found out he spent it on weed.
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