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Monday, April 16, 2018

OTP 2018 Apr 16: Beto strikes out but is a hit at baseball fundraiser

“I guarantee you he didn’t just get three pitches and three strikes like his old man,” said O’Rourke.

He can afford a laugh, since he has dusted Cruz in fundraising by taking in an eye-popping $6.7 million in the first three months of this year. That’s more than twice the $3.2 million gathered by Cruz, whose tally counted money from multiple campaign entities including a political action committee.

O’Rourke won’t take PAC money, a stand that’s expected to put him at a fundraising disadvantage as the general election nears. He said Saturday that he and his supporters are “doing this 100 percent the right way. There are no political action committees, no corporations.

 

“It’s just the people, the people of Texas, and you all look awesome,” O’Rourke told supporters who filled The Long Time grounds with a laid-back vibe as they sipped beer, wine, lemonade or water, sitting on blankets, a small stand of bleachers and scattered chairs; children and amiable dogs milling around.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 16, 2018 at 08:18 AM | 1328 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics, strikeouts, texas

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   1201. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 21, 2018 at 10:55 PM (#5657836)
You may be now. You weren't before November 8, 2016, and neither were virtually all Democrats. Which was sort of the issue under discussion.


<yawn> Your psychic abilities remain crappy.

Did you hear, BM? The deranged DNC just filed a lawsuit over the 2016 election.


I even commented on it. Go back and read what I said. Then, if you hold true to form, you'll fail to understand it and then lie about it.
   1202. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 21, 2018 at 11:15 PM (#5657846)
For the slow kids: "I fired Comey because of the Russia investigation" is different from "I fired Comey to turn off the heat of the Russia investigation."

wat.


The wat was explained in the portion you snipped. It's perfectly reasonable for Trump to lose faith in Comey and thus fire him for investigating a conspiracy theory that Trump knows is not true. That would make the firing "because of Russia" yet have nothing to do with "turning off the heat." It would have to do with firing someone who is incompetent.

And I must say... Comey's book tour has revealed that he simply wasn't someone who should be directing any FBI. Comey was petty, childish, and vindictive.

"Mystery over history." Had Comey remained silent and mysterious, his reputation would have been much better off. By opening his mouth he revealed much about himself.
   1203. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 21, 2018 at 11:20 PM (#5657848)
And, again, no rational person could believe that firing Comey would end any Russia investigations.
And, again, this is both irrelevant and wrong. The issue is whether Trump believed it, not whether a rational person believed it. And again, your claim isn't even remotely plausible; of course firing someone who is running an investigation can end said investigation.

But no mic dropping is warranted. There Trump doesn't say anything about "heat." He says he fired Comey because of Russia because Russia is a made-up story and an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. And it's perfectly reasonable to fire Comey because Comey thinks it's worthwhile to investigate a conspiracy theory. And since Trump knows whether Trump colluded then Trump would know whether the issue warranted an investigation. Moreover "Trump colluded with Russia" sounded loony from the beginning, particularly given how the talking point arose.
You make sophistry look good. Nothing you said here is true, and it ignores the other quote posted in this thread, where Trump said "I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job, ... I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.” (For Ray's next trick, he'll pretend that "pressure" and "heat" are different things.) No, it is not reasonable to fire Comey because Comey thinks it worthwhile to investigate collusion. In fact, it's entirely unreasonable for a subject of an investigation to say, "I shouldn't be investigated because I know I'm innocent."¹ But note that even if that were a reasonable position to take, it directly contradicts your prior claim that he wasn't trying to shut down the Russia investigation.

1) "I want to fire Comey to stop the Russia investigation because I want to stop him from finding the evidence of my guilt"; and
2) "I want to fire Comey to stop the Russia investigation because I'm innocent."

Both of these statements have as the common element firing Comey to stop the Russia investigation -- the very thing you claimed just a few sentences earlier that no rational person could have thought would happen.



¹As has already been explained to you, but you're apparently too Trump-deranged to understand, even if Trump knew he was innocent, your pretense that this was what reasonably motivated Trump wouldn't make sense because he has no way to know that Manafort or Trump Jr. or Kushner or Gates or Flynn or Papadopoulos or any of scores of other people associated with his campaign were innocent. And Comey would be entirely justified in investigating them.
   1204. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 21, 2018 at 11:32 PM (#5657857)
In fact, it's entirely unreasonable for a subject of an investigation to say, "I shouldn't be investigated because I know I'm innocent."


No, what I said above was that Comey continuing to investigate Trump for something as unworthwhile as this would show Trump that Comey was incompetent and cause Trump to lose faith in Comey and thus justifiably fire him.
   1205. Stormy JE Posted: April 21, 2018 at 11:39 PM (#5657859)
Felten does not appear to understand the difference between sensitive and classified.
I don't see the term "sensitive" anywhere in the excerpt. I do see "unclassified," "confidential," and "secret," however.

And the "culture critic" remark was a bit of a cheap shot, as this isn't the first piece Felten has published on the dossier and related issues. Please explain what in the piece you find so substantively objectionable?
   1206. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:00 AM (#5657869)
So, Mitt Romney came in second at the Utah Republican Party convention today, and now faces an unexpected statewide primary runoff in June.

Romney has the public endorsement of Donald Trump. Trump endorsements are turning out to be... um, is it invaluable, or unvaluable?
   1207. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:03 AM (#5657872)
As for attorney-client privilege, I'm still hoping to understand how the just-canned Comey could take government documents, reportedly at least two of which were classified, to his BFF at Columbia, then *subsequently* claim with a straight face that his pal was actually his attorney.

And how exactly would this be markedly different from the Petraeus episode?
   1208. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:08 AM (#5657876)
I don't see the term "sensitive" anywhere in the excerpt
Yes, that's kind of my point. He doesn't understand the classification system, so he's wondering why things that are merely sensitive aren't being classified. I don't see why it's a cheap shot; he has no legal or apparent national security background -- say what you want about McCarthy, and I have, but at least he's experienced -- and yet he's opining about the proper classification level of various documents. Surely TWS can find someone who has the knowledge base to discuss these issues.
   1209. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:11 AM (#5657880)
Surely TWS can find someone who has the knowledge base to discuss these issues.


And your knowledge base is...? As I understand it you're an employment/labor lawyer, and you've done some soft IP.
   1210. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:11 AM (#5657881)
No, what I said above was that Comey continuing to investigate Trump for something as unworthwhile as this would show Trump that Comey was incompetent and cause Trump to lose faith in Comey and thus justifiably fire him.
But it's hard impossible to think of anything more worthwhile to investigate than an enemy country meddling in an American presidential election.
   1211. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:20 AM (#5657884)
But it's hard impossible to think of anything more worthwhile to investigate than an enemy country meddling in an American presidential election.
In fairness, it's too early to tell whether the GCHQ got involved in a meaningful way or Steele acted alone. Oh wait, you were probably describing someone else... :)
   1212. tshipman Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:26 AM (#5657886)
And your knowledge base is...? As I understand it you're an employment/labor lawyer, and you've done some soft IP.


Well, he's no cartoonist.
   1213. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:30 AM (#5657888)
Does Real Lawyer Non Troll Man David (RLNTM) wish to weigh in on the merits of the DNC lawsuit?
   1214. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:33 AM (#5657889)
Yes, that's kind of my point. He doesn't understand the classification system, so he's wondering why things that are merely sensitive aren't being classified. I don't see why it's a cheap shot; he has no legal or apparent national security background -- say what you want about McCarthy, and I have, but at least he's experienced -- and yet he's opining about the proper classification level of various documents. Surely TWS can find someone who has the knowledge base to discuss these issues.
Let's rephrase: Do you find any of Comey's actions described in the piece inappropriate? And what about the sharing of government documents, two of which were reportedly deemed classified, with a friend?
   1215. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:36 AM (#5657890)

And your knowledge base is...? As I understand it you're an employment/labor lawyer, and you've done some soft IP.
Former member of the Deep State.
   1216. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 01:02 AM (#5657895)

Does Real Lawyer Non Troll Man David (RLNTM) wish to weigh in on the merits of the DNC lawsuit?
Well, I haven't read the 233-paragraph, 66-page monstrosity, but it seems like the stupidest political stunt I've seen in a long time. That having been said, it appears that if you strip away the rhetoric, it's a suit involving specific laws relating to hacking and such, rather than some sort of generic "stole the election" lawsuit. That moves it from frivolous to just ludicrous.
   1217. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 05:58 AM (#5657904)
For Ray's next trick, he'll pretend that "pressure" and "heat" are different things.


If they weren’t different things we wouldn’t have the Ideal Gas Law.
   1218. -- Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:39 AM (#5657906)
And again, your claim isn't even remotely plausible; of course firing someone who is running an investigation can end said investigation.


No. There's literally zero chance that changing the FBI director would stop this investigation (*) -- or any investigation. You have no clue what you're talking about.

(*) Which might be why it didn't ... you know ... stop this investigation.
   1219. -- Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:41 AM (#5657907)
And your knowledge base is...? As I understand it you're an employment/labor lawyer, and you've done some soft IP.


Heh. His "I'm a lawyer" routine is just a way to try to gull the target demo.

Hint: I'm a lawyer and I don't know the first ####### thing about all manner of legal specialties.
   1220. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:11 AM (#5657910)
No. Not really! (Exhibit A: The legal definition of parody could be expanded to protect frat house cavorting.)
   1221. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 22, 2018 at 08:34 AM (#5657914)

NEWMAN!

A mail carrier in Brooklyn stashed about 17,000 pieces of undelivered mail for more than a decade because he was “overwhelmed” by the amount he had to deliver, the authorities said.

The carrier, Aleksey Germash, told investigators he “made sure to deliver the important mail,” according to a complaint filed in federal court....

The amount of undelivered mail investigators retrieved was staggering: 10,000 pieces inside his vehicle, 6,000 in his apartment and 1,000 in his work locker. At least one item was postmarked in 2005, according to the complaint....

The phenomenon is not new.

In an article headlined A Lazy Letter-Carrier,” The New York Times in 1874 reported on the arrest of a Maryland mail carrier who dumped 200 letters into a dock “to avoid the trouble of delivery.”
   1222. BDC Posted: April 22, 2018 at 09:10 AM (#5657919)
Mitt Romney came in second at the Utah Republican Party convention today, and now faces an unexpected statewide primary runoff

Romney is one of these guys who has four or five home states … I looked up the guy who got more convention votes, Mike Kennedy, and he seems to actually be from Utah, lives and works and serves in the legislature there. One can see where that might net Kennedy convention support over the guy who wants to represent Utah but might end up spending his non-DC weekends in California or New England.

   1223. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: April 22, 2018 at 09:12 AM (#5657921)

lmao Ray is a child


A pajama wearing, hot cocoa sipping, cartoon watching child. And a Dancing Monkey. The dumbest Dancing Monkey here (which is quite a feat).
   1224. Jess Franco Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5657933)

Interesting thing -- yes, the existential horror of annihilation and the nuclear arms race are soul destroying.

But, you have to wonder, if it were not for MAD forcing both sides to hold back, would there have been a third world war by now, between the Communist Bloc and the Western Democracies? And, even without nuclear weapons, how devastating would such a war have been with the inevitable improvement of weaponry over time?

Would the devastating of WWII have stayed our hands? Well, the War to End All Wars was no picnic, and barely 20 years later, we were at it again. Nuclear Weapons essentially made conflict between the Superpowers unthinkable.

Undoubtedly true, but I was speaking more to the 500+ atmospheric tests plus all of the nuclear products release such as at Sellafield and Hanford. We've prematurely killed a lot of people, silently.

Also interesting are top-secret advances in weapons technology that we may not know of. I think the real casualty of the bomb and the resulting National Security State is that the public cannot know what's going on behind the scenes. Add the internet and you have your thousand blooms of conspiracy theory.

Which works exceeding well as further smokescreen for top secret goings on.
   1225. Jess Franco Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5657934)
Does anybody over the age of ten still wear pajamas?
   1226. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5657935)
It’s worth emphasizing that Comey, in writing his memos, did not turn them over to some independent classifying official. The director wrote his memos and gave each whatever classification he felt was appropriate (if not advantageous).

Comey began his first memo with a discussion of the classification question: “I am not sure of the proper classification here so have chosen SECRET”; he asked his colleagues to “Please let me know of [sic] it should be higher or lower than that.” The recipients of the memo may have had something to say about it because when Comey penned his second memo to the file—detailing his late January private dinner with Trump in the White House Green Room—he gave it a lower level of classification, “CONFIDENTIAL/ / NOFORN.”

Come February 8, 2017, Comey popped over to the White House “for a 4 pm ‘meet and greet’ with COS Reince Priebus.” For reasons not explained in the memo of that day’s activities, Comey bumped the classification back up to SECRET/ /NOFORN.

Six days later, Comey was at the White House again, this time to attend “an Oval office homeland threat briefing for the President.” As Comey puts in that day’s memo, “At the completion of the session, the President thanked everyone and said he wanted to speak with me alone.” One would think that a private conversation about policy with the president would be the sort of thing that would warrant a SECRET designation, or at the very least, CONFIDENTIAL. And yet—again for reasons not explained—all of a sudden Comey’s document is labeled UNCLASSIFIED/ /NOFORN. Nor is it merely some after-the-fact designation. Midway through the text of the memo, Comey writes this note: “because this is an unclassified document, I will be limited in how I describe what I said next.”

In other words, after writing a series of SECRET or CONFIDENTIAL memos detailing his interactions with the president, all of a sudden Comey starts treating his conversations with Trump as UNCLASSIFIED. Which brings us back to the question: Why?

It can’t be because the material discussed was uniquely unrelated to matters of national security or ongoing FBI investigations. After all, it is the February 14 meeting at which Trump discussed the dismissed National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, the meeting at which Trump famously said (according to Comey) “Flynn is a good guy and has been through a lot … I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.” Thus, the conversation involved discussion of what can be assumed to have been, then, an ongoing investigation, the very sort of thing that would be at the very least CONFIDENTIAL if not SECRET. And yet in writing the memo, for the first time Comey specifically constrains what he says and how he says it so that he can give it an UNCLASSIFIED designation. Was this because Comey was already strategizing how to leak the information without putting himself at risk of being found to have released classified information?

One can see the value of the classification games in testimony Comey gave the Senate Judiciary Committee in his last days as FBI director. On May 3, 2017, Comey was asked by Sen. Charles Grassley, “Has any classified information relating to President Trump or his associates been declassified and shared with the media?” Comey answered, “Not to my knowledge.” Let’s imagine that Comey had personally already handed his Flynn memo to the New York Times (as opposed to later giving it to his professor friend to read to the Times). Even if that were the case, Comey’s statement to Grassley would not have been a lie. By shifting gears and making the Feb. 14 memo UNCLASSIFIED, Comey made it possible to release the memo, should he choose to do so, while retaining the ability to state if pressed—and do so entirely truthfully—that he had not leaked any classified material.

Comey’s remaining memos are also UNCLASSIFIED, until his last, a document recounting an April telephone call. Comey (again without explanation) reverts to classifying it as CONFIDENTIAL.

For all this careful crafting to maintain the ability to tell the truth under oath, the practice of the memo-writing and distribution placed Comey in the position of lying to Trump’s team. For example, consider this exchange recounted by Comey in the document he wrote memorializing his Feb. 8 White House meeting with Chief of Staff Reince Priebus : “He then asked me if this was a ‘private conversation.’” Comey writes. “I replied that it was.” Exactly how is a conversation “private” if it is being written down and disseminated?

Comey’s memos also made it more likely that leaks would happen, even as he told the president he was doing everything possible to limit inappropriate release of information. Trump, worried about the bad press he’d been getting through leaks, repeatedly asks Comey what can be done about them. The director assures the president that he’s on the job, but educates Trump repeatedly about the way Washington leaks: “I explained my view,” Comey writes, “that they almost always come from one or two hops out…” True enough. But by sharing with a handful of colleagues notes of his private conversations with Trump and others at the White House, Comey was increasing dramatically the number of people who were “one hop out” and thus in a position to leak.


You asked what was wrong in this excerpt related to classification. Almost everything based on my 30+ years handling classified material.

1st sentence: Comey, as the Director, was the FBI classification authority (although the actual work would have been delegated), so he doesn't need someone else to tell him the classification of material.
2nd sentence: The whole excerpt misunderstands the basic classification concept. The classification is based on the material in the individual document. It is perfectly reasonable that the first memo would be classified SECRET and a second memo CONFIDENTIAL. They have different classifications because they have different content.
3rd para: same issue. Implying sinister motives ("For reasons not explained") because the classifications are different doesn't follow.
4th para: The classification UNCLASSIFIED//NOFORN is illegal. NOFORN can only be used on a classified document. If Comey classified a document with this designation, then he was wrong.
5th para: The author is more explicit about his misunderstanding of classification in this para. He states that "after writing a series of SECRET or CONFIDENTIAL memos detailing his interactions with the president, all of a sudden Comey starts treating his conversations with Trump as UNCLASSIFIED. Which brings us back to the question: Why?" Maybe because he didn't put any classified information in the memo? Again, the classification is based on the content of the actual document. I can easily write different versions of the same basic document at the TS, SECRET and UNCLASSIFIED level by changing the specific information in each version. I know this because I've done it a couple of times when I needed to send the basic information to people with different/no clearances.
6th para: "or the first time Comey specifically constrains what he says and how he says it so that he can give it an UNCLASSIFIED designation" Bingo - the author finally got it. If you don't put classified content in a memo you get to make it UNCLASSIFIED. Unlike what the author implies, this is not a knock on Comey.
7th para: a conspiracy theory based on misunderstanding classification.
8th para: the author again implies sinister motives based on the classification of a specific document being different that the classification of similar, but distinct documents.

You can argue about what Comey did, but using the classification of the individual documents as the basis is silly and degrades whatever legitimate arguments they are trying to make.

Shorter version: What David said, even if he is just a lawyer.
   1227. BDC Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5657939)
Does anybody over the age of ten still wear pajamas?

Hell, I'm wearing 'em now.
   1228. Jess Franco Posted: April 22, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5657941)
This revelation does not surprise me. There's something about passing the mid-century mark that makes you largely impervious to social embarrassment.

You're certainly more attractively attired than me at the moment.
   1229. Greg K Posted: April 22, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5657942)
I usually sleep in an old baseball shirt.

I do have pajama pants that I wear around the house in winter. But they're far too warm to sleep in.
   1230. Jess Franco Posted: April 22, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5657943)
I've got some cool pajama pants for winter that I rarely wear. My youngest asked why I don't wear them all the tume.
   1231. zenbitz Posted: April 22, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5657956)
Well my reading if @1226 does seem to explain why he may have gone easy on HRC's "mishandling of classified documents"...
   1232. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: April 22, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5657966)
Ray wears the footie pajamas. He finds it comforting. In fact, he does most of his posting while wearing them.
   1233. Traderdave Posted: April 22, 2018 at 01:49 PM (#5657995)
I almost always sleep au natural. Have for 30+ years.


Enjoy the visual!
   1234. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2018 at 02:10 PM (#5658001)
I suppose it's not that surprising that the Democratic Party, having abandoned founders Andrew Jackson & Thomas Jefferson for reasons of political correctness, would also attempt to distance itself from one of its more recent icons, Pajama Boy, for reasons of political expediency. Sure, the Democrats have fared very poorly at the polls since they introduced Pajama Boy in 2013, but he's a Democrat to the core, notwithstanding Biven's effort to muddy the waters and air-brush him out of his rightful place in the party's history.
   1235. Swoboda is freedom Posted: April 22, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5658006)
introduced Pajama Boy in 2013, but he's a Democrat to the core,

I though pajama boy was a Republican.Pajama boy
   1236. DavidFoss Posted: April 22, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5658007)
I like pajamas. It is like wearing high-thread-count sheets.
   1237. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: April 22, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5658012)
@radiofreetom:
OK, so I guess I have to say something about my earlier tweet about the president and #nuclear weapons. I do not mean that I think the president will use nuclear weapons while he’s in the middle of rage tweeting. (As always, this is my personal view.) /1

Rather, I think it is important to remind the Trump supporters, constantly, that they elected someone whose job includes more than just triggering the libs. If Hillary or Obama were talking this way, Trump fans would have argued for committing them involuntarily. /2

I especially want Trump voters and GOP congressman to keep in their minds — again, constantly — that this president, like any POTUS, could be placed under immense emotional stress in a crisis at some point that *might not be about him* and on which our survival might depend. /3

When that happens – and it is only a matter of time — I want Trump apologists to remember that they had no compunction about giving nuclear control to a man who rage-tweets at Maggie “Habberman” and nobodies like Sam Nunberg. /4

What happens in that perilous moment will depend on whether they stubbornly stick by him, or demand accountability from their elected representatives, especially in the GOP. In the meantime, they should find a little less humor in the president’s weird Twitter explosions. /5

Because always remember, while you and I are reading those tweets, so are our enemies. And they’re taking notes for the day the #### hits the fan. They will be prepared. I fear we will not be. /6x
   1238. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: April 22, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5658013)
@mkraju:
On the day the political world comes together to mourn a former First Lady, Trump falsely says he doesn’t speak to @maggieNYT and unfairly attacks her, defames a person by calling him “drugged up,” and tries to convince his personal lawyer from flipping. Then heads to golf course
   1239. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: April 22, 2018 at 02:41 PM (#5658018)
Well my reading if @1226 does seem to explain why he may have gone easy on HRC's "mishandling of classified documents"...


The problem that most people don't realize is that classified information is mishandled all the time. That was why Comey specifically said in his initial explanation for not charging Clinton was that there was no intent. If simply mishandling classified information was sufficient, there would be a lot of people being prosecuted.

I'm not an expert in this area, but I knew people who are. During the summer of 16, I asked a member of a service intelligence agency that investigated classified information breaches for the service their opinion of the Clinton matter. Their response was that "you wouldn't believe all the sh%t that happens that is ignored or covered up." They said that in almost all cases, there were obvious handling violations prior to the major breach that the person's managers ignored or gave wrist slap level penalties. They proceeded to give me some examples of problems being ignored from cases which eventual resulted in a prosecutable final act. This showed that they had experience in both mishandling of classified material that wasn't prosecuted and mishandling that was prosecuted. Given that most "minor" mishandling of classified information doesn't lead to a major information breach requiring service level investigation, think about the sheer number of problems across the entire government.

For what it is worth, their opinion was that the Clinton email issues didn't rise to the level of prosecutable misconduct. I highly respect their opinion based on my previous work with them.
   1240. Chicago Joe Posted: April 22, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5658049)
Am I the only one here who doesn't like the new OT-Culture thread? The cultural breaks often led an air of levity to the often ponderous and repetitive political content.
   1241. Greg K Posted: April 22, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5658053)
Am I the only one here who doesn't like the new OT-Culture thread? The cultural breaks often led an air of levity to the often ponderous and repetitive political content.

I'm giving it a shot. But taking the non-political discussion out of this thread seems like a blow.
   1242. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5658066)

They said that in almost all cases, there were obvious handling violations prior to the major breach that the person's managers ignored or gave wrist slap level penalties. They proceeded to give me some examples of problems being ignored from cases which eventual resulted in a prosecutable final act.
Kind of like, coincidentally what Comey said. People who are prosecuted (as opposed to being merely administratively sanctioned) virtually always include evidence of malicious intent or lying to investigators or some other obstruction of justice. Not just being careless, or even extremely careless. Sandy Berger, Petraeus, etc. Also, note that despite their far more egregious conduct, they still got slaps on the wrist.
   1243. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5658069)
Does anybody over the age of ten still wear pajamas?


People over 70, or starring in sitcoms.
   1244. Chicago Joe Posted: April 22, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5658081)
People over 70, or starring in sitcoms.


I would love a good set of flannel pajamas. Tough to find nowadays.
   1245. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5658082)
Am I the only one here who doesn't like the new OT-Culture thread? The cultural breaks often led an air of levity to the often ponderous and repetitive political content.

What's wrong with staying on topic? The pop culture intellectuals now have a place to discuss what they watch on TV without inflicting it on those uninterested.
   1246. PreservedFish Posted: April 22, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5658083)

Am I the only one here who doesn't like the new OT-Culture thread? The cultural breaks often led an air of levity to the often ponderous and repetitive political content.


I prefer the cultural talk to the political talk. I'm all in on OT:C. Later, dorks.
   1247. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5658085)
Kind of like, coincidentally what Comey said. People who are prosecuted (as opposed to being merely administratively sanctioned) virtually always include evidence of malicious intent or lying to investigators or some other obstruction of justice. Not just being careless, or even extremely careless. Sandy Berger, Petraeus, etc. Also, note that despite their far more egregious conduct, they still got slaps on the wrist.


She purposely set up a server to send and receive government emails that she knew could be classified. That's not merely extremely careless or reckless in my book, but YMMV.

But I've always deferred to Comey for judging that she shouldn't be charged because they couldn't find a prosecution with broadly similar facts. No, the main thing that was always suspicious was that they didn't seem to have the stomach for a full throated investigation of her and her henchpeople. We see the stark contrast in what Mueller is doing: interviewing Trump's people under penalty of false statements, pressuring them to flip, charging them with crimes, securing plea deals, executing numerous search warrants, carrying out early morning raids, referring evidence of incidental criminality to other federal authorities, etc. The Clinton investigation was nothing like that in the main, which is what causes people to lose faith in the objectivity of the final outcome. And it's clear that Lynch in particular had no stomach for it from her completely inappropriate tarmac meeting with Bill and then the "Call it a matter" nonsense. Comey also has admitted to (subconsciously!!) basing certain decisions on poll numbers, which is plainly ludicrous.
   1248. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: April 22, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5658091)
OK, so Ray is A Pajama Boy, not THE Pajama Boy. Happy?
   1249. PreservedFish Posted: April 22, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5658093)
The pop culture intellectuals now have a place to discuss what they watch on TV without inflicting it on those uninterested.


I hope you stop by, I'm with you if you're planning an RV hijack.
   1250. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5658098)
I would love a good set of flannel pajamas. Tough to find nowadays.


Far too warm. A blanket (or a sheet and a blanket) does the trick, unless you're in the North Pole.
   1251. Jess Franco Posted: April 22, 2018 at 04:43 PM (#5658104)

What's wrong with staying on topic? The pop culture intellectuals now have a place to discuss what they watch on TV without inflicting it on those uninterested.

Yes, hello!
   1252. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: April 22, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5658121)
No, the main thing that was always suspicious was that they didn't seem to have the stomach for a full throated investigation of her and her henchpeople.

Her henchpeople! And Ray wants to be our latex salesman serious thinker.
   1253. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5658130)
   1254. Srul Itza At Home Posted: April 22, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5658140)
Well, I haven't read the 233-paragraph, 66-page monstrosity, but it seems like the stupidest political stunt I've seen in a long time.


It is a product of the DNC. So that is a given.

But I have faith. Wait a while, and they will top it.

   1255. tshipman Posted: April 22, 2018 at 05:51 PM (#5658143)
Does anybody over the age of ten still wear pajamas?


I never wore pajamas until recently. My wife and I had our first kid in January, and you end up being up out of bed at weird times. It's way more comfortable to wear pajamas so you don't freeze your ass off in the middle of the night.
   1256. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 22, 2018 at 05:58 PM (#5658150)
Well, I haven't read the 233-paragraph, 66-page monstrosity, but it seems like the stupidest political stunt I've seen in a long time.


It is a product of the DNC. So that is a given.

But I have faith. Wait a while, and they will top it.


They'll have some strong competition from the RNC's most recent effort**, but then the response to that will be "That's just the RNC being the RNC." Nobody ever expects anything more out of the RNC than Trump-level trolling, no matter how much BS they pack into every sentence, so they get a pass.

** Complete with a box to "Sign up to get REAL NEWS updates directly from the President."
   1257. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:09 PM (#5658153)
There's a recently naked young man who shot up a Waffle House killing 4 in Tennessee on the loose right now, armed with an AR-15, but now is not the time to blah blah blurghhhhhhhh
   1258. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:11 PM (#5658154)
wat
   1259. -- Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:14 PM (#5658155)
Speaking of the Kenyan precedent, will the DNC be citing it in its opposition brief to the virtually certain order to dismiss? It has to be noted here that to the DNC's credit, ludicrous as the suit is, at least they didn't utterly beclown themselves by petitioning the court to order the election overturned and re-run.

Query whether Hillary weighed in, advocating exactly that.
   1260. Laser Man Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:21 PM (#5658163)
She purposely set up a server to send and receive government emails that she knew could be classified.
The Clinton server, as well as the "official" .gov server she was supposed to use, are only for non-classified emails. There is a separate communication channel that is intended for classified email. If someone sent a classified email to Clinton's server, they would have also run into problems if they had sent it to her .gov address.
   1261. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:29 PM (#5658169)
They'll have some strong competition from the RNC's most recent effort**, but then the response to that will be "That's just the RNC being the RNC." Nobody ever expects anything more out of the RNC than Trump-level trolling, no matter how much BS they pack into every sentence, so they get a pass.


TDS Hero McCabe is threatening to file his own frivolous lawsuit, as I commented on the other day, and now Turley comments on here:

Liar, Liar, DOJ On Fire? Comey and McCabe Offer Sharply Conflicting Accounts

April 22, 2018 jonathanturley Bizarre, Constitutional Law, Criminal law, Free Speech, Justice, Lawyering, Media, Politics, Torts

...It is clear that either Comey or McCabe is offering a false account of leaks from the Justice Department. ...

Comey has declared that McCabe is simply not telling the truth when he said that Comey knew of his leaking information to the media. Indeed, he said that he ordered the investigation into finding the culprit.McCabe’s lawyer Michael Bromwich has insisted that people should not buy Comey’s “white knight” account and that he is offering a false narrative.In the meantime, McCabe is lashing out at this accusers, including the career officials of the Inspector General’s office who took the unprecedented step of calling for the former acting FBI Director to be fired. Bromwich says that McCabe will now sue the Trump administration for defamation and wrongful termination. Good luck with that. The Office of Professional Responsibility and the Inspector General’s office is composed of career officials who decided that McCabe should be fired. The IG found that McCabe leaked the information for his own personal interest and not the public interest. That hardly seems like a compelling basis for either wrongful termination or defamation unless Bromwich knows some major fact that that is not public.

...

Bromwich has morphed into Michael Cohen in throwing around threats, including President Trump, for “continuing slander.” His client is a former public official and now a public figure under New York Times v. Sullivan. ... He must prove that the media had “actual malice” where it had actual knowledge of the falsity of a statement or showed reckless disregard whether it was true or false.

That is a high standard for McCabe to shoulder. Moreover, a politician’s opinion of your service (like Trump’s) is generally not actionable unless it can be shown to be a false assertion of fact.

McCabe may be able to tap the thoroughly gullible for more money but he may find that discovery in litigation is the last place he wants to be with both Trump and Comey asserting opposing views of his conduct.


   1262. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:34 PM (#5658172)
The Clinton server, as well as the "official" .gov server she was supposed to use, are only for non-classified emails.

So, you're saying Hillary and her henchmen inner circle should be prosecuted for misusing the server?
   1263. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:41 PM (#5658177)
There's a recently naked young man who shot up a Waffle House . . .

Who was also arrested last year for refusing to leave a restricted area in the White House complex.
   1264. gef the talking mongoose, amorphous lefty blob Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:43 PM (#5658178)
There's a recently naked young man

Not a pajama-wearer, evidently.

who shot up a Waffle House killing 4 in Tennessee on the loose right now, armed with an AR-15,


Not that it matters, presumably, to anyone not in the area, but apparently a Waffle House patron wrestled the rifle away from him after it misfired, or something like that. Police appear to think he also has access to a handgun.

but now is not the time to blah blah blurghhhhhhhh


#WeAreAllWaffleHouse
   1265. Howie Menckel Posted: April 22, 2018 at 06:48 PM (#5658179)
Am I the only one here who doesn't like the new OT-Culture thread? The cultural breaks often led an air of levity to the often ponderous and repetitive political content.

It took me years to realize that I was constantly linking to non-political but possibly amusing tangents. But then I figured maybe that wasn't a bad thing.

not sure how to handle posting now.....
   1266. Laser Man Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:08 PM (#5658191)
So, you're saying Hillary and her henchmen inner circle should be prosecuted for misusing the server?
Where have you been for the last two years? "No reasonable prosecutor" would bring such a case.
   1267. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:22 PM (#5658195)
"No reasonable prosecutor" would bring such a case.


Dancing Monkeys don't care about what's reasonable.
   1268. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:23 PM (#5658196)
Kind of like, coincidentally what Comey said. People who are prosecuted (as opposed to being merely administratively sanctioned) virtually always include evidence of malicious intent or lying to investigators or some other obstruction of justice. Not just being careless, or even extremely careless. Sandy Berger, Petraeus, etc. Also, note that despite their far more egregious conduct, they still got slaps on the wrist.
If this is an attempt to excuse away what Comey did WRT Hillary, it's totally unpersuasive.

Was it the repeated lies, hammering, bleach bit, ignoring of Colin Powell's warnings, or the claiming to federal investigators she had no clue what "(C)" meant in the mishandling of tens of thousands of e-mails that don't rise to the level of Berger or Petraeus, let alone Kristian Saucier?

Instead, the public got treated to Comey's public grandstanding and use of make-believe with an "extreme carelessness" standard.

Comey was in a tough spot at that point in 2016 and was looking for a way to navigate a tricky current but, when evaluating everything in total, it's quite evident Comey was just looking out for Comey and the institution he led for several years could pretty much go #### itself.
   1269. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:25 PM (#5658197)
The premise that higher education bureaucrats are intelligent enough to run students lives deserve their salaries, should be reexamined - Penn State's 98-Year-Old Outing Club No Longer Allowed To Go Outside:
What's more dangerous: rugby, or a walk in the woods? At Pennsylvania State University, the administrators apparently think it's the latter. The student "Outing Club," which has gone backpacking, kayaking, and hiking in state parks over the course of its 98-year-existence, will no longer be allowed to host outdoor events after administrators conducted a risk assessment, according to The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

"The types of activities in which [Penn State Outing Club] engages are above the university's threshold of acceptable risk for recognized student organizations," according to an official announcement.

A key issue for administrators was that the Outing Club frequently visit locations with poor cell phone coverage. This wasn't an issue during the Coolidge administration, but now that cell phones exist, students are apparently expected to remain glued to them at all times.

Fire all of them.
   1270. tshipman Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:33 PM (#5658198)
Was it the repeated lies, hammering, bleach bit, ignoring of Colin Powell's warnings, or the claiming to federal investigators she had no clue what "(C)" meant in the mishandling of tens of thousands of e-mails that don't rise to the level of Berger or Petraeus, let alone Kristian Saucier?


This is just gibberish masquerading as an argument. The FBI says Clinton didn't lie to them. You say you know better because ... you want it to be that way.
   1271. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:36 PM (#5658199)
The premise that higher education bureaucrats are intelligent enough to run students lives deserve their salaries, should be reexamined - Penn State's 98-Year-Old Outing Club No Longer Allowed To Go Outside:
What's more dangerous: rugby, or a walk in the woods? At Pennsylvania State University, the administrators apparently think it's the latter. The student "Outing Club," which has gone backpacking, kayaking, and hiking in state parks over the course of its 98-year-existence, will no longer be allowed to host outdoor events after administrators conducted a risk assessment, according to The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

"The types of activities in which [Penn State Outing Club] engages are above the university's threshold of acceptable risk for recognized student organizations," according to an official announcement.

A key issue for administrators was that the Outing Club frequently visit locations with poor cell phone coverage. This wasn't an issue during the Coolidge administration, but now that cell phones exist, students are apparently expected to remain glued to them at all times.

Fire all of them.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the same Yankee Clapper who just a couple of pages ago was bemoaning all the lefties here linking stories to ridiculous things said and done by beyond insignificant Republican officials?

Yeah, I though so.

Yankee Clapper engages in far more of this on his own than all the lefties combined.
   1272. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:48 PM (#5658204)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the same Yankee Clapper who just a couple of pages ago was bemoaning all the lefties here linking stories to ridiculous things said and done by beyond insignificant Republican officials?

As usual, Bitter Mouse is not only wrong, but apparently attempting, yet again, to deflect attention from the substance of what is posted here. In response to someone who apparently thought I had made too much of the anti-Semitic statements of that Democratic D.C City Councilman, I merely noted that no such objections were raised to the numerous Team Blue posts highlighting any impolitic behavior by even the most obscure GOP volunteer deputy precinct captain. Bitter Mouse specializes in such posts, even. Why Bitter Mouse thinks any of this is relevant to the Penn State absurdity remains a mystery.
   1273. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:49 PM (#5658206)
The FBI says Clinton didn't lie to them.
Who at the FBI said this? Might it have been folks currently under investigation (e.g., Comey, McCabe) or likely cooperating with the authorities against folks currently under investigation (e.g., Strzok, Page)? And we know very well that Hillary repeatedly lied on this topic when speaking with reporters.

Your "argument" is crystal clear, however. When the indictments come down, you want to be able to cry about a "witch hunt" and "banana republic."
   1274. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:51 PM (#5658207)
   1275. tshipman Posted: April 22, 2018 at 07:54 PM (#5658209)
Who at the FBI said this? Might it be folks currently under investigation (e.g., Comey, McCabe) or likely cooperating with authorities (e.g., Strzok, Page)? And we certainly know very well Hillary repeatedly lied on this topic when speaking with reporters.

Your "argument" is crystal clear, however. When the indictments come down, you want to be able to cry about a "witch hunt" and "banana republic."


Oh okay. Jim Comey secretly was part of the Clinton conspiracy, and he filled his role by throwing the election and getting fired by Donald Trump for investigating Russia collusion.

Now it all makes sense ...
   1276. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 08:00 PM (#5658210)
Oh okay. Jim Comey secretly was part of the Clinton conspiracy, and he filled his role by throwing the election and getting fired by Donald Trump for investigating Russia collusion.
What did I say above, shipman? Ultimately, Comey was out for Comey. He's the American equivalent of Walid Jumblatt, meaning a pompous ass and political weathervane.
   1277. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 22, 2018 at 08:04 PM (#5658212)
As usual, Bitter Mouse is not only wrong, but apparently attempting, yet again, to deflect attention from the substance of what is posted here. In response to someone who apparently thought I had made too much of the anti-Semitic statements of that Democratic D.C City Councilman, I merely noted that no such objections were raised to the numerous Team Blue posts highlighting any impolitic behavior by even the most obscure GOP volunteer deputy precinct captain. Bitter Mouse specializes in such posts, even. Why Bitter Mouse thinks any of this is relevant to the Penn State absurdity remains a mystery.


Um, I posted 1271 numbnuts.
   1278. tshipman Posted: April 22, 2018 at 08:06 PM (#5658213)
What did I say above, shipman? Ultimately, Comey was out for Comey. He's the American equivalent of Walid Jumblatt, meaning a pompous ass and political weathervane.


Who at the FBI said this? Might it have been folks currently under investigation


What did you mean by this otherwise?
   1279. Jess Franco Posted: April 22, 2018 at 08:16 PM (#5658216)
It took me years to realize that I was constantly linking to non-political but possibly amusing tangents.

I'd start a philosophy thread, but if no one contributed, would it even exist?
   1280. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2018 at 08:22 PM (#5658217)
Um, I posted 1271 numbnuts.

Ah, my profuse apologies to Bitter Mouse then. Guess I just saw the "M" in the screen name while watching Nationals game & multi-tasking and credited one of the usual suspects. However, Misirlou's #1271 still makes no sense as a response to #1269.
   1281. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 09:11 PM (#5658233)
What did you mean by this otherwise?
Comey put his money on Hillary, which is not to say that his comments during that July press conference made her smell like roses. Still, what has put him in legal jeopardy is his post-election behavior.
   1282. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 22, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5658237)
This headline seems a bit misleading - County Employee Sentenced To 50 Years For Fajita Theft:
A former Cameron County juvenile detention center employee said he started out stealing small amounts of fajitas bought with county funds, but his scheme soon ballooned, spinning out of control.
. . .
Escamilla pleaded guilty Friday to theft by a public servant in front of visiting State District Judge J. Manuel Bañales, who sentenced the man to 50 years in prison. The judge dismissed an additional theft charge after the sentencing.

Members of the Cameron County District Attorney’s Office Special Investigations Unit arrested Escamilla last year after a driver from Labatt Food Service in Harlingen called the detention center’s kitchen to let employees know their 800-pound delivery of fajitas arrived. Minor inmates at the Darrel B. Hester Juvenile Detention Cente are not served fajitas.

The total value of the fajitas, which were stolen during a nine-year period, was $1,251,578. That figure does not include the brisket, pork chops, sausage and various types of chicken Escamilla also admitted to stealing, court testimony revealed.

Not exactly Jean Valjean, eh?
   1283. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 09:25 PM (#5658238)
But the fajitas hadn't been marked classified at the time he stole them!
   1284. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 22, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5658243)
As usual, Bitter Mouse is not only wrong, but apparently attempting, yet again, to deflect attention from the substance of what is posted here. In response to someone who apparently thought I had made too much of the anti-Semitic statements of that Democratic D.C City Councilman, I merely noted that no such objections were raised to the numerous Team Blue posts highlighting any impolitic behavior by even the most obscure GOP volunteer deputy precinct captain. Bitter Mouse specializes in such posts, even. Why Bitter Mouse thinks any of this is relevant to the Penn State absurdity remains a mystery.

You could throw out and discount all the Alex Jones and neo-Nazi / alt-Right gibberish, and take every last crazy utterance spoken by every minor city councilman and antifa activist and blow it up to whatever degree you want, and it would all be buried under the incoherent lying, corruption and nativism emanating from the Trump White House and half of his cabinet, not to mention his lawyers, advisors, and those who no longer work for him.

The difference that the JEs and the Clappers refuse to acknowledge from their 5th amendment caves is simple: The left wing crazies are an insignificant fringe in the Democratic party, but their right wing counterparts either control or have intimidated 90% of the GOP's elected officials, who parrot their insanity on a daily basis.

JE and Clapper seem to think by ignoring this, nobody will notice it, and it'll all go away. We'll see.
   1285. tshipman Posted: April 22, 2018 at 09:49 PM (#5658244)
Comey put his money on Hillary, which is not to say that his comments during that July press conference made her smell like roses. Still, what has put him in legal jeopardy is his post-election behavior.


So is it your belief that the FBI covered up Hillary Clinton lying when talking to the FBI or not?
   1286. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5658245)
She purposely set up a server to send and receive government emails that she knew could be classified. That's not merely extremely careless or reckless in my book, but YMMV.
No, that's not how it works. Setting up the server is perfectly legitimate¹ (no matter how many times FLTB pretends otherwise by calling it a "rogue server"). It's the actual handling of specific classified material that must be analyzed, not the existence of a device that someone could, but need not, misuse.



¹I'm speaking of the classified material angle, not of whether it was used to avoid FOIA or the like. Even then, it would be the failure to preserve/turn over FOIA-able material that would be the issue, not the mere use of the server. The use of the server might not be best practices, but by itself is not a violation of anything.
   1287. Chicago Joe Posted: April 22, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5658247)
Brisket? Pork chops? Fajitas? What the hell kind of prison are they running down there?
   1288. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:00 PM (#5658248)

Speaking of the Kenyan precedent, will the DNC be citing it in its opposition brief to the virtually certain order to dismiss?
It's like FLTB is a FL. Hint: one doesn't write an opposition brief to an order. One writes an opposition brief to a motion. It's the kind of mistake that someone who once saw a tv show with law-talking people might make.
   1289. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:01 PM (#5658249)
So is it your belief that the FBI covered up Hillary Clinton lying when talking to the FBI or not?
Well, I can't come up with a straight-face explanation as to why Hillary's former chief of staff, Cheryl Mills, who seemed to know about the Secretary's server arrangements, was allowed to claim attorney-client privilege and represent the candidate at the FBI interview. Can you?

Also, why was the interview not recorded? Why did the interview take place mere days before Comey held that press conference and well after an exoneration memo had already been drafted*, particularly since the issue over whether to recommend a prosecution supposedly hinged solely on her intent?

And once more, "the FBI" means a few or several officials at the top, meaning not every senior official, let alone the rank and file.

* Are we still blindly accepting the claim that this was SOP?
   1290. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5658252)
You could throw out and discount all the Alex Jones and neo-Nazi / alt-Right gibberish, and take every last crazy utterance spoken by every minor city councilman and antifa activist and blow it up to whatever degree you want, and it would all be buried under the incoherent lying, corruption and nativism emanating from the Trump White House and half of his cabinet, not to mention his lawyers, advisors, and those who no longer work for him.

The difference that the JEs and the Clappers refuse to acknowledge from their 5th amendment caves is simple: The left wing crazies are an insignificant fringe in the Democratic party, but their right wing counterparts either control or have intimidated 90% of the GOP's elected officials, who parrot their insanity on a daily basis.

JE and Clapper seem to think by ignoring this, nobody will notice it, and it'll all go away. We'll see.


Your latest bit of Whataboutism is unshockingly noted, Andy, but weren't you covering for Tryon White earlier, noting eagerly that he was about to correct the error of his ways and repent by visiting the Holocaust museum? That doesn't appear to have happened -- quite the opposite, actually. And to that you say... what(about), exactly?
   1291. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5658253)
So is it your belief that the FBI covered up Hillary Clinton lying when talking to the FBI or not?


I don't think she lied to the FBI; I believe Comey about that (and about virtually everything he says, actually).

I'm just not sure that they conducted a full-throated investigation of her, including the interview. I obviously could be wrong as there's no way for me to know. But as I've noted, the appetite for running a real matter investigation such as Mueller is running seemed decidedly lacking. Many of the characterizing hallmarks of Mueller's investigation simply weren't present here.

As an aside, it's interesting to me that when they pulled up the lid on the FBI they found what looks like criminal conduct from McCabe; they found at best wholly unprofessional conduct from Strzok and Page; they found curious bordering on incompetent conduct from Comey. And at the DOJ they found Loretta "tarmac" Lynch.

Not the greatest of looks. And with still a ways to go.
   1292. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:30 PM (#5658256)
Well, I can't come up with a straight-face explanation as to why Hillary's former chief of staff, Cheryl Mills, who seemed to know about the Secretary's server arrangements, was allowed to claim attorney-client privilege and represent the candidate at the FBI interview. Can you?


In stark contrast we see that Mueller -- the one conducting a real investigation -- has twice now pressured a lawyer to turn against his or her own client.

Mills was at least a witness or a subject.
   1293. tshipman Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:33 PM (#5658257)
Well, I can't come up with a straight-face explanation as to why Hillary's former chief of staff, Cheryl Mills, who seemed to know about the Secretary's server arrangements, was allowed to claim attorney-client privilege and represent the candidate at the FBI interview. Can you?

Also, why was the interview not recorded? Why did the interview take place mere days before Comey held that press conference and well after an exoneration memo had already been drafted*, particularly since the issue over whether to recommend a prosecution supposedly hinged solely on her intent?

And once more, "the FBI" means a few or several officials at the top, meaning not every senior official, let alone the rank and file.


And what did James Comey know about Area 51? Why has he steadfastly denied the existence of mole men? Why weren't he Kennedy files declassified after 50 years????

I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS!!!
   1294. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:38 PM (#5658259)
And once more, "the FBI" means a few or several officials at the top, meaning not every senior official, let alone the rank and file.


Not sure why we need this talking point.
   1295. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:40 PM (#5658260)
I don't think she lied to the FBI;
Do we even know what exactly she was asked?
   1296. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:43 PM (#5658262)
And what did James Comey know about Area 51? Why has he steadfastly denied the existence of mole men? Why weren't he Kennedy files declassified after 50 years????

I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS!!!
Your non-reply was hardly unexpected.
   1297. Stormy JE Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5658263)
Not sure why we need this talking point.
Don't act like this is your first day at OTP, Ray.
   1298. BrianBrianson Posted: April 22, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5658269)
My son is almost old enough to start having sleepovers, so yeah, I'm acclimatising myself to pyjamas.
   1299. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 11:19 PM (#5658282)
I'm serious. Why do we need this talking point?
   1300. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 22, 2018 at 11:29 PM (#5658288)
In stark contrast we see that Mueller -- the one conducting a real investigation -- has twice now pressured a lawyer to turn against his or her own client.
Not sure what this refers to. He once got a judge to order Manafort/Gates's lawyer to testify to a grand jury about what they had told her, in a classic crime-fraud exception situation.¹ But there was no "pressure" on the lawyer to turn against them; it wasn't like, e.g., flipping Manafort to testify against Trump. And what's the second time? If it's referring to Cohen, then (a) Mueller wasn't involved, and (b) while one might assume that various prosecutor-type people would love it if Cohen flipped on Trump, we have no evidence that any such attempt has been made yet. Is there some other instance that has escaped my mind at the moment?



¹The lawyer had made certain representations to the DOJ on behalf of Manafort/Gates. Mueller alleged that said representations were false, and so wanted the lawyer to testify solely as to whether Manafort/Gates had told her those things. (The judge also ruled that attorney-client privilege didn't apply in the first place on that subject.)
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