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Monday, April 23, 2018

OTP 2018 Apr 23: The Dominant-Sport Theory of American Politics

All true, and I have joined in the tut-tutting. Yet I can’t help noticing that the people making these criticisms are mostly a bunch of white guys born in the 1960s. I came along near the start of that decade, so I’ve seen a few cultural shifts in my day, and the first one came via early-1970s headlines proclaiming “Baseball No Longer the National Pastime,” after polls showed that football had become America’s most popular sport. Pundits lamented football’s rise (“violence punctuated by committee meetings,” in George Will’s memorable phrase, though he was certainly no stranger to the press box at Redskins games), and indeed, the change coincided with a trend toward greater complication, bureaucratization, and crudity in American life. After brushing off the 1980s soccer scare, football remained unchallenged for decades.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 23, 2018 at 08:10 AM | 1350 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba, nfl, off-topic, politics, soccer

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   1001. McCoy Posted: April 26, 2018 at 07:26 PM (#5661420)
flip
   1002. Spahn Insane Posted: April 26, 2018 at 07:34 PM (#5661426)
995/Zonk:

My favorite part of the Wikipedia entry: where they tell us the practice of “rolling coal” has not spread enough to justify legislation outside the United States. Gee, I’m shocked that a deliberately conspicuous practice of environmental assholishness hasn’t caught on elsewhere.
   1003. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:27 PM (#5661471)
Turley:

We have been discussing the investigation by the Inspector General of the Justice Department into the leaking of FBI memos by former Director James Comey. I have previously explained why there are serious questions concerning Comey’s conduct. Now there is an interesting development after Fox News confirmed that the law professor used by Comey for his leak was in fact a “special government employee” (SGE) for Comey’s FBI. That status of Columbia Professor Daniel Richman raised new concerns

...

Richman, confirmed “I did indeed have SGE status with the Bureau (for no pay).”

However, that means that Comey not only removed FBI memos (including some classified memos) but he used a Justice Department employee to leak the material to the media. I have previously discussed my view that Comey had acted unprofessionally and possibly unlawfully. However, that misconduct is magnified if if used another DOJ employee to carry out the violation.


More at the link.
   1004. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:39 PM (#5661473)
Re Joy Reid:

Joy Reid's attorney says FBI has opened investigation into hacking

An attorney representing embattled MSNBC host Joy Reid said Wednesday that the FBI has opened a criminal investigation into various online accounts belonging to her, adding yet another layer to a convoluted saga that has bewildered the media world.

Reid has raised eyebrows this week with her assertion that a number of newly unearthed homophobic posts ostensibly from her now-shuttered blog were actually the handiwork of someone who infiltrated her account. In a statement on Monday, she said she and her representatives had "notified federal law enforcement officials of the breach."

And Tuesday night, a cybersecurity analyst hired by Reid said that, along with his own investigation into the matter, he is cooperating with federal law enforcement.

On Wednesday evening, Reid's attorney, John H. Reichman, released a statement through MSNBC.

"We have received confirmation the FBI has opened an investigation into potential criminal activities surrounding several online accounts, including personal email and blog accounts, belonging to Joy-Ann Reid," Reichman said in the statement. "Our own investigation and monitoring of the situation will continue in parallel, and we are cooperating with law enforcement as their investigation proceeds."


I'd be shocked if she didn't write the homophobic comments, but, well, maybe.

This part of the story was fun:

In keeping with its usual practice, the FBI did not comment on whether or not it is conducting an investigation.


Where is Andrew McCabe when you need him?
   1005. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:31 AM (#5661477)
Heh, it's 2018, after all - Hoyer Taped Pressuring Progressive Candidate To Drop Out:
With Hoyer in Denver, Tillemann met the minority whip at the Hilton Denver Downtown to make the case that the party should stay neutral in the primary and that he had a more plausible path to victory than the same centrism that Coffman had already beaten repeatedly. Hoyer, however, had his own message he wanted to convey: Tillemann should drop out.

In a frank and wide-ranging conversation, Hoyer laid down the law for Tillemann. The decision, Tillemann was told, had been made long ago. It wasn’t personal, Hoyer insisted, and there was nothing uniquely unfair being done to Tillemann, he explained: This is how the party does it everywhere.

Tillemann had heard the argument before from D.C. insiders and local Democratic bigwigs, all of whom had discouraged him from challenging the establishment favorite. The only difference was that for this conversation, the candidate had his phone set to record.

The secretly taped audio recording, released here for the first time, reveals how senior Democratic officials have worked to crush competitive primaries and steer political resources, money, and other support to hand-picked candidates in key races across the country, long before the party publicly announces a preference. The invisible assistance boosts the preferred candidate in fundraising and endorsements, and then that fundraising success and those endorsements are used to justify national party support. Meanwhile, opponents of the party’s unspoken pick are driven into paranoia, wondering if they are merely imagining that unseen hands are working against them.

Hoyer bluntly told Tillemann that it wasn’t his imagination, and that mobilizing support for one Democratic candidate over another in a primary isn’t unusual. Rep. Ben Ray Luján, D-N.M., chair of the DCCC, has a “policy that early on, we’d try to agree on a candidate who we thought could win the general and give the candidate all the help we could give them,” Hoyer told Tillemann matter-of-factly.

“Yeah, I’m for Crow,” Hoyer explained. “I am for Crow because a judgment was made very early on. I didn’t know Crow. I didn’t participate in the decision. But a decision was made early on by the Colorado delegation,” he said, referencing the three House Democrats elected from Colorado.

“So your position is, a decision was made very early on before voters had a say, and that’s fine because the DCCC knows better than the voters of the 6th Congressional District, and we should line up behind that candidate,” asked Tillemann during the conversation.

“That’s certainly a consequence of our decision,” responded Hoyer.

Not sure there were any bridges left to burn there, but even if this guy were to somehow win, I have a feeling he won't be getting any prime committee assignments. Politicians may soon have to start confiscating phones and patting folks down to check for a wire before sensitive meetings.
   1006. tshipman Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:37 AM (#5661478)
Hoyer comes across great, and Tillemann sounds like a slimy douche in that story.
   1007. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:00 AM (#5661479)
Turley, quoted by Ray, #1003:
Now there is an interesting development after Fox News confirmed that the law professor used by Comey for his leak was in fact a “special government employee” (SGE) for Comey’s FBI. ...[Columbia Professor Daniel] Richman, confirmed “I did indeed have SGE status with the Bureau (for no pay).” However, that means that Comey not only removed FBI memos (including some classified memos) but he used a Justice Department employee to leak the material to the media. I have previously discussed my view that Comey had acted unprofessionally and possibly unlawfully. However, that misconduct is magnified if if used another DOJ employee to carry out the violation.

Yet here's Fox News' Judge Napolitano on the same information:
NAPOLITANO: “Not all leaks are criminal. If it’s not classified, it’s not criminal. At the time this occurred — by this I mean, Professor Richman reading to selected members of the media selected nonclassified portions of one of the memos — Jim Comey was a private citizen.”

BRIAN KILMEADE: “He covered himself?”

NAPOLITANO: “Yes, I thought he covered himself.”

STEVE DOOCY: “But he didn’t own that memo.”

NAPOLITANO: “But legally he did cover himself. Now, I jumped the gun here the other day, not knowing that Professor Richman had a security clearance. And one of you, I think, said to me: 'Did Jim Comey break the law?' I said it appears he did. I since have apologized, it now appears he did not. We didn’t know about the professor having the clearance. Which is why, as a judge, I ought to have known, you have got to get all the facts before you form a judgment.”
   1008. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:37 AM (#5661480)
The Senate Ethics Committee released its findings on his ethics case, and severely admonished Senator Robert Menendez (D-NJ):
The Committee has found that over a six-year period you knowingly and repeatedly accepted gifts of significant value from Dr. Melgen without obtaining required Committee approval, and that you failed to publicly disclose certain gifts as required by Senate Rule and federal law. Additionally, while accepting these gifts, you used your position as a Member of the Senate to advance Dr. Melgen's personal and business interests. The Committee has determined that this conduct violated Senate Rules, federal law, and applicable standards of conduct. Accordingly, the Committee issues you this Public Letter of Admonition, and also directs you to repay the fair market value of all impermissible gifts not already repaid.

Sordid details at link. The finding were adopted unanimously by the Committee, which is evenly split between Republicans and Democrats. One might think there could be some electoral fallout for Senator Menendez, who is running for reelection this year, but most seem to believe that will not be the case because New Jersey.
   1009. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 27, 2018 at 07:52 AM (#5661490)
Raising the Ceiling, but Not the Floor, on Potential Democratic House Gains

— The number of potentially vulnerable Republican seats is growing, and we’re adding an extra 10 GOP-held seats to the Likely Republican column this week.

— All of these members remain solid favorites for reelection, but at the same time, many seem likely to face better-funded challengers than they are used to.

— There are scenarios in which Democrats gain many more than the 23 net seats they need to win the House this year — perhaps double that or even more — but their overall odds to take control remain about 50-50.

— Table 1 shows our 15 House ratings changes this week. Of those, 14 races move in a more Democratic direction, while Rep.-elect. Debbie Lesko (R, AZ-8) moves from Likely Republican to Safe Republican after her special election win on Tuesday night.


The real news is that they actually moved a seat in a GOP positive direction! Feel the momentum!
   1010. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 27, 2018 at 07:57 AM (#5661491)
Water wet. Sun rises in the East. Incompetence May Be Trump’s Biggest Problem.

First Read: “Yes, it’s chaos and controversy, which we’ve constantly chronicled here. But it’s also a matter of competency. According to this month’s NBC/WSJ poll, a majority of Americans – 56% – said that Trump’s administration isn’t competent, including 39% who said it isn’t competent at all. By contrast, 43% said it was competent, including 16% who said ‘very competent.'”

“To put those numbers into perspective, 50% of American said Barack Obama’s administration was competent in June 2014 (so after the Obamacare website crash during his second term), and 53% said George W. Bush’s administration was competent in March 2006 (after Hurricane Katrina).”

“So for all the potential dangers to Trump’s presidency – the Russia investigation, historically low approval ratings, Democrats possibly winning the House (and Senate) in November – the biggest could very well be the competency question… That’s a big problem.”


Seriously though, 16% think the GOP President Trump administration is very competent? OK, fine, some people are really dumb, but overall I think the American people have correctly evaluated Trump's competency. And better late than never.

As always these sort of numbers amaze me, because of how terrible they are and the American economy is still going along pretty well (Though weirdly, stretchy hasn't been talking stock market recently. Wonder why?) If and when the economy truly goes South, and honestly it is way past due, even these bad numbers are going to crater.
   1011. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:05 AM (#5661492)
Joy Reid's attorney says FBI has opened investigation into hacking

..

I'd be shocked if she didn't write the homophobic comments, but, well, maybe.


She wrote them, and her "cyber-security expert's" defense of her is getting shredded.

To support the screenshot forgery allegation, [Jonathan] Nichols pointed to six images in the @Jamie_Maz Twitter timeline that he said were definitely not written by Reid nor posted by a hacker, but instead were outright fabricated images of posts that never appeared on the site. “The most obvious one was an instance where—it’s an easy one, it’ll stick in your head— [@Jamie_Maz] says Joy made statements about Eddie Murphy. It’s obviously false, she never made that claim.”

Nichols said those six posts are nowhere to be found in the Internet Archive. But that is not true.

Further searching on the Internet Archive turned up the posts for all six of the screenshots Nichols described as fakes, including the one about Eddie Murphy. The Internet Archive’s records indicate they were retrieved and stored between 2006 and 2009. And all six are exactly as they appear in the screenshots. A random check of other screenshots attributed to the blog produced the same result: None of the images are faked or doctored.

...

Presented with that information on Thursday, Nichols acknowledged his error. “Yeah I’ve become aware of some methodology issues,” he wrote in an online chat. “We are looking to resolve the discrepancy.”


   1012. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:16 AM (#5661494)
Trump’s Ever-Mounting Scrap Heap

Everything he touches,” Fred Trump once said of his son, “turns to gold.”

That was in 1973. Things are … a little different now.

Ronny Jackson is only the latest to join the ever-growing scrap heap of the Trump administration—people who volunteered or were summoned to serve, only to find themselves discarded and disgraced. The Trump-adjacent damage ranges from blaring-siren legal woes (Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, George Papadopoulos, and poor-man’s-Roy-Cohn, fixer-attorney Michael Cohen) to reputational taint (Sean Spicer, Reince Preibus, Anthony Scaramucci, Steve Bannon, global-CEO-turned-spurned-Secretary-of-State Rex Tillerson) to unexpected political collapses (Luther Strange, Roy Moore, Rick Saccone) in which the president’s support proved to be less Midas touch and more kiss of death. Rear Adm. Jackson was the mostly anonymous White House physician. Now, largely as a result of Trump’s decision to put him forth to be to be Secretary for the Department of Veterans Affairs, he’s better known, fairly or not, as an ill-tempered, drunk-driving drug-dispensing “candy man.”


Taint. Pure taint!
   1013. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:34 AM (#5661498)
Seriously though, 16% think the GOP President Trump administration is very competent?
He's successfully triggering libs, isn't he? And isn't that what he was elected to do?
   1014. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:38 AM (#5661499)
He's successfully triggering libs, isn't he? And isn't that what he was elected to do?


Hey I still prefer him to President Cruz and the popcorn factor with Trump is really high for this liberal. But sure, some folks (Hi Rickey!) have definitely been triggered. But even then I would argue he has been successful at that "goal", but even there not super competent, YMMV though.
   1015. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:39 AM (#5661500)

She wrote them, and her "cyber-security expert's" defense of her is getting shredded.
You failed to describe the best part: this isn't, e.g., a Fox or Breitbart piece or the like. The article you linked to, that demolished her arguments, is by her own media outlet. (Yes, she's an MSNBC host, but she's also a Daily Beast columnist.)
   1016. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:40 AM (#5661501)

1012: Okay, I don't think Moore's troubles were caused by Trump. The rest, maybe.
   1017. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:40 AM (#5661502)
Not sure there were any bridges left to burn there, but even if this guy were to somehow win, I have a feeling he won't be getting any prime committee assignments.

Right, just like when Trump won after all that "#NeverTrump" fakery, the entire GOP turned their backs on him.
   1018. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:53 AM (#5661504)
1012: Okay, I don't think Moore's troubles were caused by Trump. The rest, maybe.

Jackson's sort of a share-the-blame case. Trump raised his profile when he nominated him for the VA post, but face it, Jackson painted a huge target on his back with his over-the-top suckup description of Trump's physical condition. I'm not sure Jackson's opponents would've had the same motivation to go after his nomination for the VA if he'd confined his comments about Trump's physical to "President Trump passed all his tests, with minor concerns about [fill in the blank] that we'll be monitoring going forward."

In a way it's somewhat analogous to when Comey went beyond saying that no reasonable prosecutor would bring charges against Clinton, and started talking about how reckless she'd been with her emails, although with Comey you could make a good case for his decision, given the impossible position he'd been put in. By contrast, it's hard to think of any real defense for Jackson's performance regarding Trump's physical, which was simply embarrassing and totally unnecessary.
   1019. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:59 AM (#5661506)
1012: Okay, I don't think Moore's troubles were caused by Trump. The rest, maybe.


The taint is my commentary, of course - but I think his inclusion in that list is more about the "Mierda Touch"... Blame or no blame, Trump voicing support/endorsing a candidate seems to be highly correlated with losing, even if there's no inherent causality.
   1020. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 09:04 AM (#5661510)
I am amused about Trump now going after Tester on Jackson...

I mean, if people think the primary role of the VA Secretary is to say nice things about Trump and that Tester is terrible for expecting slightly different qualifications... have at it. I'm sure there are people who do think that, but I'm equally sure that they were already voting for a Tester opponent in Montana.

I highly doubt there are any winnable votes among the group of people who think "making Trump look bad by paving the road to a VA Secretary with some significant questions even BEYOND his think qualifications for the job" anyway.
   1021. -- Posted: April 27, 2018 at 09:05 AM (#5661512)
"Competent" or not, North and South Korea didn't get together until Trump was president. Yeah, yeah -- we know that he's responsible for anything some Nazi in Georgia tweets, but has no responsibility for things under his constitutional watch ... but that isn't really sane.
   1022. DavidFoss Posted: April 27, 2018 at 09:14 AM (#5661514)
"Competent" or not, North and South Korea didn't get together until Trump was president.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_inter-Korean_summit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_inter-Korean_summit

Both of those were in Pyongyang, though. I think this yesterday was the first time that the NK leader stepped over the line at the DMZ since the 50s.
   1023. -- Posted: April 27, 2018 at 09:17 AM (#5661515)
Both of those were in Pyongyang, though. I think this yesterday was the first time that the NK leader stepped over the line at the DMZ since the 50s.


Yes, and they're ending the state of war and NK has pledged to denuclearize. It's a diplomatic win for the US and the world, by any serious measure.
   1024. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 09:23 AM (#5661518)
I guess now we can release South Korea as independent country to elect its own leadership and conduct its own foreign policy, especially in regards to its northerly neighbor?

If the people of South Korea decide to pursue the path Trump has created for them and trust it will come to a positive end to all involved, it might even be a good idea to elect that temporary governor Trump appointed to a western-style head of state role... President or something.
   1025. BDC Posted: April 27, 2018 at 09:36 AM (#5661522)
Unless you live in a place with water shortages, what’s the point? It’s not like burning gasoline in your car; the water doesn’t get used up

This was answered upthread even for places without water shortages. But also, places with potential water shortages include the entire American Southwest. Just in this decade there was a near-disastrous drought in Wichita Falls and other communities an hour or two's drive northwest of where I live. Some sort of water conservation is essential in this part of the country. Maybe shower curtains that impale you are not the answer, but they highlight a need.
   1026. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 27, 2018 at 09:51 AM (#5661525)
I guess now we can release South Korea as independent country to elect its own leadership and conduct its own foreign policy, especially in regards to its northerly neighbor?


Heh.

North Korea is happening under Trump's watch, but I am waiting for the "just so" story of how he made it happen. We all know the story of St. Ronnie and how he (single-handed) brought down the USSR (which is roughly as true as any TV depiction taken from a book I guess), but what is the story with St. Trump? Was it just his magic, or did he do something, pass a law, engage in crafty diplomacy, or ?

And yes that is a genuine question. I am interested in what tale the Trumpkins will tell to show Trump's genius on the Korean Peninsula. As for the real history, I will wait a bit and read about it (assuming it all comes to fruition, which is not a guarantee BTW) in five to ten years when more of the truth comes out.
   1027. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 09:51 AM (#5661526)
This was answered upthread even for places without water shortages. But also, places with potential water shortages include the entire American Southwest. Just in this decade there was a near-disastrous drought in Wichita Falls and other communities an hour or two's drive northwest of where I live. Some sort of water conservation is essential in this part of the country. Maybe shower curtains that impale you are not the answer, but they highlight a need.


Indeed.

My dad, retired to Nye County in Nevada, loves to regale me with water wars tales (Nye borders Clark, home of Vegas). The area's population - not just in southern Nevada, but extending down to Arizona, New Mexico, and California - has simply outgrown its water supply. That's BEYOND the fact that said population, which includes a lot of transplants who can't let go of having a grass lawn, even in a climate where such a thing is silly and enjoying recreational activities (read: golf) that likewise are big water drains.

What's more, before becoming a retirement haven and Vegas likewise sucking up an astounding amount of water - the area also, obviously, has a long history of mining operations... especially under conditions/via methods that are even less environmentally friendly than modern, prevailing conditions... meaning, they've also got some serious contamination problems.

As I understand it, Nye - which is a really, really odd place - is even taking the rather significant step of requiring the purchase of "water rights"... this is a very Burt Gummer, "we live here because we don't want government!" area - so the fact that they'd institute something like this is rather extraordinary. But really, they've got no choice. The water table for home wells has dropped precipitously, faster than anyone thought possible just 5-10 years ago.

It's made for some odd conversations... driving around with my dad, a hater of all things regulated and suspicious of things like flush regulators, different lightbulbs, etc, seeing a home sporting a patch of grass yard makes him apoplectic.
   1028. Traderdave Posted: April 27, 2018 at 09:57 AM (#5661528)
Trump's war drums and failure to appoint an ambassador to SK have *hampered* the progress that North & South have been making on their own.
   1029. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5661529)
Yes, and they're ending the state of war and NK has pledged to denuclearize. It's a diplomatic win for the US and the world, by any serious measure.
No. The only serious measure of success is what they do, not what they say. They’ve made such pledges before and then didn’t live up to them.
   1030. Swoboda is freedom Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5661530)
My dad, retired to Nye County in Nevada, loves to regale me with water wars tales (Nye borders Clark, home of Vegas). The area's population - not just in southern Nevada, but extending down to Arizona, New Mexico, and California - has simply outgrown its water supply.

While people use water, a lot of the use is from farming, which is ridiculous in the area. The main problem is the starting dividing up the water when rainfall was at the absolute peak, and that was before the population started booming.
   1031. The Good Face Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5661531)
Trump's war drums and failure to appoint an ambassador to SK have *hampered* the progress that North & South have been making on their own.


South Korea's Moon credits Trump with 'huge' contribution to North Korea talks

But what does that guy know?
   1032. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:12 AM (#5661532)
North Korea is happening under Trump's watch, but I am waiting for the "just so" story of how he made it happen. We all know the story of St. Ronnie and how he (single-handed) brought down the USSR (which is roughly as true as any TV depiction taken from a book I guess), but what is the story with St. Trump? Was it just his magic, or did he do something, pass a law, engage in crafty diplomacy, or ?


A good hint would be the NK defection from a few months ago - this was supposedly an army officer, the sort who should be somewhat shielded from the starvation facing the population, who says he was stealing raw corn to eat to stay fed. Obviously, NK has been slow-rolling a starvation crisis for at least three decades - and indications are that it is getting worse.

In any case, just FTR -

As with any such instance, I'm not rote against multilateral or bilateral talks. What I do think makes NK unique is that 'meeting as equals'/bilateral talks has long been a stated NK policy goal, going back 4-5 administrations. It's a prestige feather that they alone among potential adversarial nations place value on, so it is a rare instance where I would have liked pre-conditions (not just a promise to suspend nuclear testing, but an agreement for inspections, for example).

Regardless, it's probably also important to remember that NK has been down this path several time before... promises of this, that, and the other in exchange for concessions, followed a brief period of quiet, followed repeating the cycle. You could ask Bill Clinton about that one.

Obviously, with NK - tempering expectations would be wise... and if a suspension of nuclear testing and an agreement to inspections to ensure it is the best that can be got, then so be it. However, it's probably also important to remember that even a non-nuclear NK - the nation is also a world leader in money laundering, counterfeiting (goods and pure cash), and illicit arms smuggling... that's even setting aside the obvious human rights abuses (though, I know the new US policy is we don't care about that anymore).

By all means, though, gotta start somewhere.

Finally, I would say that while no doubt Trump is going to take the credit - and his Trumpkins will obviously amplify his taking of the credit - it's been Moon Jae-in that was doing the heavy lifting while 'dotard' and 'rocket man' was flying about. How quickly people forget the uncomfortable pictures of Pence and Kim's sister near each other at the Olympics.

You can claim ah-ha! Trump played bad cop so Jae-in could play good cop, I guess... but what we have is NK making the same promises it has made many times before under three generations of Kims and at that this point - NK getting something it has long wanted in exchange for... what, exactly?
   1033. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:14 AM (#5661534)
While people use water, a lot of the use is from farming, which is ridiculous in the area. The main problem is the starting dividing up the water when rainfall was at the absolute peak, and that was before the population started booming.


No doubt - though, here, I think one probably can go a little west and put most of this blame on California, which has turned a desert into a veritable bread basket.
   1034. Traderdave Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5661535)
But what does that guy know?


He knows how to kiss the ass of a vain moron who happens to control a slug of troops in his country.
   1035. -- Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5661536)
More information has come out in the Times on Nutty Kremlin Lawyer and it turns out, unsurprisingly, that she appears to be a spy.(*) The most likely scenario for her efforts to meet with Trump, Jr. remains some kind of setup, working with Fusion, or some general intel gathering effort on behalf of Russia. Or some combination thereof.

(*)
Ms. Veselnitskaya also appears to have recanted her earlier denials of Russian government ties. During an interview to be broadcast Friday by NBC News, she acknowledged that she was not merely a private lawyer but a source of information for a top Kremlin official, Yuri Y. Chaika, the prosecutor general.

“I am a lawyer, and I am an informant,” she said. “Since 2013, I have been actively communicating with the office of the Russian prosecutor general.”

   1036. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5661540)
Paul Ryan putting the final touches on his legacy?

I don't think anyone has brought up the increasingly bizarre dismissal of the House Chaplain.

Ryan originally tried to sell it as a run-of-the-mill resignation, but it's now become clear this was not the case.


House Chaplain Rev. Patrick Conroy spoke out in a Thursday New York Times report about his firing, confirming that he was blindsided by Speaker Paul Ryan’s (R-WI) decision and was never told why he has been dismissed.

“I was asked to resign, that is clear,” Conroy told the New York Times. He added that it is “unclear” why.

“I certainly wasn’t given anything in writing,” he continued. “Catholic members on both sides are furious.”

The only possible rationale Conroy could identify is a prayer he delivered the day that the House was marking up the GOP tax bill.

“May all members be mindful that the institutions and structures of our great nation guarantee the opportunities that have allowed some to achieve great success, while others continue to struggle,” he prayed then. “May their efforts these days guarantee that there are not winners and losers under new tax laws, but benefits balanced and shared by all Americans.”
   1037. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:25 AM (#5661544)
More information has come out in the Times on Nutty Kremlin Lawyer and it turns out, unsurprisingly, that she appears to be a spy.(*) The most likely scenario for her efforts to meet with Trump, Jr. remains some kind of setup, working with Fusion, or some general intel gathering effort on behalf of Russia. Or some combination thereof.


Of all the amusement the Trumpanzees have delivered, I'm not sure anything quite reaches the giggle level of shifting from "totally innocent!" to "morons so easily duped!"

Is that really want you want to go with? The slow-walked admission into "OK, so they were trying to collude... but it doesn't count because they were just stupid!"
   1038. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:25 AM (#5661545)
I have lost track of whatever nutty theory Stretchy is peddling in #1035. Can anyone translate into sane English what exactly he is trying to suggest and how it clears Trump of wrongdoing? How does her being exposed as an agent of Russia help Trump?

EDIT: For dyslexia. Sigh.
   1039. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5661551)
I have lost track of whatever nutty theory Stretchy is peddling in #1035. Can anyone translate into sane English what exactly he is trying to suggest and how it clears Trump of wrongdoing? How does her being exposed as an agent of Russia help Trump?


Once you code in the inescapable loop of "Clinton did it!", it's pretty obvious.

   1040. PepTech Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:39 AM (#5661555)
The most likely scenario for her efforts to meet with Trump, Jr. remains some kind of setup, working with Fusion
Once you code in the inescapable loop of "Clinton did it!", it's pretty obvious.

Yep, what he said. Remember, HRC is the cackling mastermind that coordinated the movement of every Fusion employee over the course of several years.
   1041. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:49 AM (#5661559)
Yep, what he said. Remember, HRC is the cackling mastermind that coordinated the movement of every Fusion employee over the course of several years.


In hindsight it is obvious, but I am glad that didn't occur to me. My innocent sanity maintained for another day at least I guess.
   1042. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5661562)
Yep, what he said. Remember, HRC is the cackling mastermind that coordinated the movement of every Fusion employee over the course of several years.


You'd think with all her evil genius and ability to so sublimely and cleverly set up the Trump family in a manner to create such problems for a potential Trump administration, she'd have instead just stolen the election... but what do I know.

I'm not able to follow her overly complicated, long con plans like the Trumpkins are.
   1043. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5661565)
Just wait until Trump finally does shoot someone on 5th avenue....

Then, only then and FINALLY, a prosecution for murder against the Clintons will become possible.
   1044. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5661582)

He's successfully triggering libs, isn't he? And isn't that what he was elected to do?
In all seriousness, the people who think Trump is doing a good job can be classified into a few (hat tip to Hillary) baskets.

1) People who really do think that his main job is to trigger libs.
2) People who don't go that far, but who think that if he's triggering libs, he must be doing something right.
3) People who express disapproval of his tweets and management style, but say, "Well, but all of that is just theater and style, not substance. If you look at the substance, he's doing good things."

(This last point ignores that style does matter, and it also requires treating things that haven't been accomplished as though they had been. (e.g., peace on the Korean Peninsula.))
   1045. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5661583)

But what does that guy know?
That guy knows that insulting one's patron is a bad idea in general, and 1000x as bad an idea when it's Donald Trump.
   1046. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5661584)
In all seriousness, the people who think Trump is doing a good job can be classified into a few (hat tip to Hillary) baskets.


I think you need to add in ...
4) True tribalists, for whom any Republican president must be rated highly in any survey.
   1047. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5661591)
More information has come out in the Times on Nutty Kremlin Lawyer
I see that FLTB is following in the footsteps of his mentor and giving random stupid nicknames to people and then repeating them over and over without realizing that they primarily make him look stupid. I mean, saying "Lying Ted" or "Crooked Hillary" just makes him look juvenile. Saying "Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd" or "Nutty Kremlin Lawyer" makes him look both juvenile and retarded, since those descriptors don't even remotely describe.
and it turns out, unsurprisingly, that she appears to be a spy.(*)
Well, no, it doesn't make her appear to be a spy. It makes it appear that she's an agent of the Kremlin. About which the only thing that's surprising is that you finally admitted it, given that we've been trying to tell you it for a year and you pretended that she wasn't working for the Russian government. Glad to see you've finally caught on; better late than never.

The most likely scenario for her efforts to meet with Trump, Jr. remains some kind of setup,
Yes, she's a very sneaky spy. She said, "I want to meet with you on behalf of the Russian government to collude with Trump to win the election." Don't see how Trump Jr. or you could have guessed from that subterfuge that she was acting on behalf of the Russian government. Of course, the only scenario is that she was meeting with him on behalf of the Russian government to collude with Trump to win the election.
   1048. BDC Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5661592)
treating things that haven't been accomplished as though they had been

On that front, the Jerusalem embassy move seems to be on track to happen next month sometime – this mildly surprises me, as I figured it for one of these things that could remain in the definitely-planning stages for quite a long time.
   1049. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5661593)
Larvell SBB, #1023:
NK has pledged to denuclearize. It's a diplomatic win for the US and the world, by any serious measure.


It's amazing how sweet and friendly North Korea can get, after its sole nuclear missile testing site collapsed underneath a mountain in September, followed by three small earthquakes, and presumed radioactive contamination.

North Korea signed the Joint Declaration on the Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula with South Korea in 1992, 26 years ago.

Later that year, they signed a comprehensive safeguards and inspection deal with the International Atomic Energy Agency, concluding a process that had begin in 1985. But less than a year later, they refused the IAEA access to two of its sites. Then North Korea threatened to pull out of the deal entirely. Then they re-agreed to the deal. Then they allowed inspectors into the country, but denied them access to certain sites. During this back-and-forth period, North Korea was secretly removing spent fuel and made its first two nuclear weapons.

Three months later (we're into 1993 now), they officially pulled out of the IAEA. Two days after that, they agreed to a "freeze" on its nuclear weapons program. Four months after that, North Korea signed a deal establishing the framework for its denuclearization. Two years later, North Korea entered into bilateral missile talks. Half a year after that, North Korea was caught preparing a missile test.

North Korea continued negotiating an end to its missile program while also striking a deal with Pakistan to develop missiles. In 1998, they launched a missile test over Japan. Later that year, North Korea again agreed to site inspections if they were properly paid. In 1999, North Korea signs a moratorium on missile testing. In 2000, North and South Korea sign a joint declaration on reunification. Kim Jong Il offers to end his missile program if other countries will launch North Korean satellites. A month later, he says he'd been joking. Throughout all of this, and afterwards, economic sanctions on North Korea are periodically imposed and lifted.

In 2001, George W. Bush expresses optimism about dialogue if there is complete verification. In response, North Korea cancels peace talks with South Korea and threatens "revenge" and "war" upon the U.S. Two months later, North Korea reaffirms its commitment to seeking peace. In 2002, the "axis of evil" speech is made. A week later, Colin Powell offers to meet with North Korea without preconditions. A few months later, North Korea threatens to pull out of the inspection agreement. Meanwhile, it has struck a deal with Yemen to develop missiles. It simultaneously signs a deal with Japan to seek a comprehensive solution to nuclear weapons.

North Korean officials tell the State Department that they have an uranium enrichment program, which the country then denies having said, while threatening to end the missile moratorium. U.S. intelligence indicates that North Korea is now shipping missiles to Iraq, about the same time that North Korea announces it is reopening its nuclear facilities. A month later, it removes all IAEA monitoring equipment, and expels inspectors. Three months later, North Korea withdraws from the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, and conducts short-range missiles tests.

A month later, North Korea reveals that it possesses nuclear weapons. It also says it might get rid of its nuclear program and cease missile exports. It also says the denuclearization treaty with South Korea is dead. It then allows outside officials into its facilities to prove that they have nuclear material. It also ships uranium to Libya. In 2003, North Korea says it has processed 8,000 fuel rods. In 2005, it says it hasn't. Then it says it has. It also says the country is no longer bound by its missile moratorium.

A North Korean official tells the U.S. that if the country is cornered, it may transfer its nuclear weapons to terrorists. At this time, North Korea reiterates its commitment to denuclearization.

In September, North Korea signs an joint statement agreeing to abandon all of its nuclear weapons and programs. It also says the denuclearization treaty with South Korea, so recently dead, is alive. It also agrees to rejoin the international Non-Proliferation Treaty and submit to IAEA safeguards real soon. A year later, none of this has happened, but short-range missile tests are resumed. The UN passes a resolution blocking all member states from transferring or procuring missile and weapon technology with North Korea; North Korea says it is not bound by the resolution.

In 2006, North Korea announces, then conducts, an underground nuclear test. Three months later, North Korea agrees to implement preexisting denuiclearization steps. The U.S. unfreezes North Korean money to facilitate compliance, and North Korea shuts down its nuclear facilities. Three months later, an Israeli air strike attacks a Syrian nuclear facility being built in conjunction with North Korea.

In 2007, North Korea signs a declaration with South Korea setting forth plans for reunification and peace. In 2008, North Korea begins slowing down its nuclear dismantling, saying that the incentives for doing so are coming too slowly. The U.S. has evidence that North Korea has begun a second weapons program even as it deconstructs the first.

North Korea provides documentation showing that nuclear development at two of its plants began in 1986, 28 years earlier. In response, George W. Bush indicates that he will waive many of the sanctions. North Korea reaches a diplomatic agreement with Japan, which ultimately expires without being implemented. It also suspends the disablement of its nuclear facilities. During this time, the country has built a new and advanced missile testing site.

North Korea also reaches a preliminary nuclear verification agreement with the U.S., which then removes North Korea from the terror list, leading to North Korea agreeing to resume disabling its nuclear plants. A month later, it restricts inspections at those plants and reneges in its verification agreement with the U.S. In 2009, North Korea fires a ballistic missile, claiming to have launched a satellite. A week later, the country announces that it will not be bound by any previous agreements.

A month later, it conducts a second nuclear test. The next day, North Korea declares that it will join the Nonproliferation Security Initiative. The next day, it says that South Korea's participation in the Initiative is an act of war, and thus the 1953 armistice is null and void. Sanctions are reimposed, but North Korea has received fuel and money during the period leading up to new sanctions in response to its earlier cooperation.

Talks with North Korea resume in December; while they are going on, a North Korean airplane is seized with 35 tons of weapons headed to the Middle East. Two months later, Kim Jong Il assures China that he is committed to denuclearization. At the same time, he is concluding construction of a 2,000-centrifuge uranium enrichment facility. During this period, North and South Korea are in a limited war mode, including shellings and a ship being torpedoed.

In 2011, North Korea declares that denuclearization is a South Korean ruse, designed to make them vulnerable to invasion. A North Korean ship carrying weapons to Burma is blocked. In the summer, North Korea expresses its desire to resume multilateral talks, and dangles a possible moratorium. In 2012, these talks lead to North Korea agreeing to suspend operations at its nuclear enrichment plant, allow inspectors, and begin a moratorium, in exchange for food aid. Two weeks later, North Korea announces it will launch another satellite.

Food aid is suspended, and the satellite's missile launch is conducted but fails. U.S. intelligence reveals that China is aiding North Korea's missile program. In December, a North Korean satellite is successfully launched; in February, another nuclear device is exploded. Another ship is blocked, this one carrying weapons from Cuba to North Korea. A North Korean nuclear reactor is reactivated.

In 2014, China demands denuclearization, and declares a "red line." In the next two weeks, North Korea test-fires 30 rockets and two medium-range missiles. South Korea test-fires a missile of its own. Intelligence reveals that North Korea's rocket-launching site has been expanded, that the country has developed a mobile-launch ICBM missile, and has probably designed a miniaturized nuclear weapon that can be fit into a ballistic missile. Multiple launches continue throughout the year.

In 2015, North Korea offers to suspend its nuclear testing. More missile tests throughout the year, including from a submarine. In 2016, North Korea conducts its fourth nuclear detonation, launches another satellite, and conducts a series of intermediate missile tests. In July, they say they are willing to discuss denuclearization. They then conduct two more nuclear tests and a large number of missile tests with increasing range throughout the rest of 2016 and 2017. The last of these nuclear tests collapses and destroys the country's testing facility.

Trump and Kim trade a series of insults throughout 2017. North and South Korea engage in talks, though North Korea rejects any discussion of denuclearization. Two months later, North Korea expresses an "earnest interest" in denuclearization talks. Last month, North Korea announced it would suspend nuclear tests and that he would shut down the testing site (which was destroyed last September).

And so we end where we began:
NK has pledged to denuclearize. It's a diplomatic win for the US and the world, by any serious measure.
   1050. DavidFoss Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5661594)
4) True tribalists, for whom any Republican president must be rated highly in any survey.

Republicans who think Trump is incompetent and crazy but are worried about the pendulum swinging too far in response?

Perhaps that is too much of a 'galaxy brain' take, but it seems like to happen in a lot of political debates. One tiny concession on some obvious point does not have to mean complete defeat and forced espousal of all of your political opponents most extreme positions.
   1051. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5661596)
1008

but most seem to believe that will not be the case because New Jersey.


You're ####### right, Buster!
   1052. PepTech Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5661600)
@1049: Yeah, these reports out of China (does anyone know of any other source for this data/analysis?) give Kim's recent thaw an interesting tinge. It's obviously not as simple as Trump would like us to believe, which is probably something along the lines of "I, Donald J. Trump, am solely responsible for bringing peace to the peninsula, where all my predecessors failed miserably, due to my super abilities at negotiation and intimidation. You may now thank me."

That being said, any progress in this area is to be applauded. The world is probably a bit safer now than it was yesterday, or in September before the collapse, and that's a good thing.
   1053. BDC Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5661603)
Maybe Jared and Ivanka led an Impossible Mission Force into North Korea and imploded the mountain.
   1054. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 27, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5661604)
   1055. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5661605)
Great post 1049. This time it's different tho.
   1056. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5661606)
Maybe Jared and Ivanka led an Impossible Mission Force into North Korea and imploded the mountain.


That would explain why Moses Trump parted the Pacific Ocean last year...
   1057. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5661607)
I used to worry about the length of my showers, until I read about how much water goes into a single hamburger. Now I just eat more chicken and shower for as long as I want.
   1058. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5661609)
I used to worry about the length of my showers, until I read about how much water goes into a single hamburger. Now I just eat more chicken and shower for as long as I want.


It takes a gallon of water to make an almond

One almond.
   1059. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5661620)

I used to worry about the length of my showers,
For people who do actually do the absurd thing described earlier in this thread: when you're sitting in the living room by yourself and you get up to go to the bathroom, do you turn out the lights in the living room until you come back?
   1060. Greg K Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5661622)
For people who do actually do the absurd thing described earlier in this thread: when you're sitting in the living room by yourself and you get up to go to the bathroom, do you turn out the lights in the living room until you come back?

You still use a toilet? It's humans like you that are ruining this planet.
   1061. BDC Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5661623)
when you're sitting in the living room by yourself and you get up to go to the bathroom, do you turn out the lights in the living room until you come back?

This has a zen-koan quality to it.

Anyway, I never sit in the living room by myself. There's always a cat or two around. OTOH cats can see in the dark so why do I leave a light on for them? This question will evidently nag at me for a while.
   1062. DavidFoss Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5661625)
Nobody worries about water use until their water bill goes up. Water is expensive in Santa Fe, so they use less. Water is cheap in Phoenix, so they use more. If you want Phoenicians (probably not the right word, but I like it) to use less water, increase the price.

The catch is that people want to the super-poor to have effectively 'free' tap water for drinking and reasonable bathing. There's probably a way to do that without people needlessly planting almond trees their front yards.
   1063. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5661631)
For people who do actually do the absurd thing described earlier in this thread: when you're sitting in the living room by yourself and you get up to go to the bathroom, do you turn out the lights in the living room until you come back?


Anyway, I never sit in the living room by myself. There's always a cat or two around. OTOH cats can see in the dark so why do I leave a light on for them? This question will evidently nag at me for a while.
My wife leaves the lights on all night, specifically for the cats. (ok, I'm cheating a little. She leaves them on half the night, usually at a lower intensity. Though it is for the cats.)

Probably the most important reason to leave the lights on for cats is so that you don't step on them in the middle of the night while they are following you unseen in the hopes of receiving a late night snack.
   1064. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5661642)
For people who do actually do the absurd thing described earlier in this thread: when you're sitting in the living room by yourself and you get up to go to the bathroom, do you turn out the lights in the living room until you come back?


Sure, why not?

It's more a habit from childhood in a family where leaving the lights on when you leave a room makes you history's greatest monster (out of electric bill concerns, not conservation concerns) - but yes. I'm pretty OCD about turning the lights out when leaving a room.

It's a pretty automatic habit for me.
   1065. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5661644)
Turning lights off is great but just invest in LED bulbs that will make an actual difference both in your monthly bill and in carbon produced. Seriously. I haven't changed a light bulb in a couple years at my apt. It's nice.

My dad, god bless him, a foster child of extreme poverty, had a line in the bathtub where we could fill it as kids. He had the money to pay for as much hot water as us kids wanted, but when you're a kid and grow up poor I think certain habits just stay with you.
   1066. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5661647)
Turning lights off is great but just invest in LED bulbs that will make an actual difference both in your monthly bill and in carbon produced. Seriously. I haven't changed a light bulb in a couple years at my apt. It's nice.


That's the thing - most of these allegedly monumental sacrifices are just habits.

Did some of you NOT have parents constantly concerned about air conditioning the whole neighborhood or threatening to pay your allowance in electric utility stock so at least you'd learn the value of a dollar?
   1067. Jess Franco Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5661650)
I must be French -- I don't shower.
   1068. BDC Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5661652)
Food waste has recently become a hot topic in a lot of media. I feel good about myself here because I buy food in small quantities, right before cooking, plan meals around oddments in the pantry, use everything, and compost scraps – I truly throw away almost nothing.

But then this acting-locally runs into dynamics like the one Swoboda mentions above wrt water and farming. As a consumer, I waste very little, but I am at the end of a chain that wastes an awful lot in production, shipping, and marketing. Do my micro-economies have much effect on the macro situation?
   1069. BDC Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5661655)
I must be French -- I don't shower

Then why didn't you say "Je ne me douche pas?"
   1070. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5661658)
Turning lights off is great but just invest in LED bulbs that will make an actual difference both in your monthly bill and in carbon produced. Seriously. I haven't changed a light bulb in a couple years at my apt. It's nice.


Great. You do realize that you just forced the coal rollers to replace all their bulbs with high intensity incandescents and leave them on 24/7.
   1071. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5661659)
Forced stack rankings of crimes against humanity from my childhood

Leaving the lights on in a room you were not in
Air conditioning the outdoors
-gap-
Heating the outdoors
Bricking a soda or throwing out a 2 liter because the last few ounces were all flat and spit
Leaving the TV/computer/whatever on
Running the water rather filling up one section of the sink (pre-dishwasher; this one was really bad because not only were you wasting water and the gas to heat the water, you inherently devaluing the cost of a two-section sink!)
-gap-
Running the dishwasher when it wasn't full
Less than full loads of laundry
-gap-
Failing to clean your plate WITHOUT saving the leftovers
-gap-
failing to clean your plate BUT saving the leftovers
   1072. Stormy JE Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:01 PM (#5661660)
Ian Bremmer:
I’ve been critical of Trump foreign policy missteps in past year: TPP, Paris, too many unnecessary missteps with allies to count.

But today’s historic North/South Korea breakthrough does not happen without priority & pressure from US President.

Trump deserves full credit.
Which, according to zonkie, makes Bremmer a total Trumpkin.

My take? Verify but verify.
   1073. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5661663)
Great. You do realize that you just forced the coal rollers to replace all their bulbs with high intensity incandescents and leave them on 24/7.


Nah... I suspect their insistence on incandescents because the tree-huggers are making them switch to LEDs will remain incentive enough to continue the thriving secondary markets of old bulb trading for at least another generation.
   1074. Jess Franco Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5661664)

I think they're always central, though they're often non-concerns because the treatment is helpful/effective, and will result in an improvement in qualify of life. Indeed, when something does neither, I'm skeptical it's even right to call it medicine.

Although it's often illegal, it's not uncommon in Western medicine to kill someone who has no hope of recovery and terrible quality of life. Assisted suicide in legal in Canada, Switzerland, and the Low Countries, and some states have laws to allow it. I would guess that gray cases come up a lot in other places (though my firsthand knowledge is limited to Canada).

And really, the ethics have always allowed for letting people die when you couldn't actually help them. Which is what we're discussing. Someone you can't help, but can only contribute to harming.

I don't object to limiting medical life extension, but to how simple you make these decisions seem.

Iatragenic illness is a huge cause of injury and death, and even when not, medicine is abundantly practiced that is not helpful in improving the quality of life. At least in the US, where it's a gargantuan business for profit. And where there are such gross economic inequalities, the quality of life is necessarily different for the well-to-do and that of the majority.

The whole discussion of harm is a torture of language to avoid the fact that you are for letting some people die because you don't think they're worth saving. Just own that position fully, and realize the death toll will be high for the sick and elderly. And disabled children.
   1075. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5661666)
See how easy habits are?

If Jason can only enter a room with his habit of namechecking his better, anybody and everybody can get in the habit of flipping the light switch when leaving a room.
   1076. Jess Franco Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5661668)

Then why didn't you say "Je ne me douche pas?"


I don't think denying I'm a douche will help matters with people who already think I stink.... Can you still be a hippie with a crewcut if you cut it yourself?
   1077. Jess Franco Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5661670)
I think it's long been true of the low countries that they're big and healthy, but weeding out the weak has probably made it moreso. Probably doesn't apply to the low country of France, if the movies of Bruno Dumont are any indication.
   1078. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5661675)
Hoyer comes across great, and Tillemann sounds like a slimy douche in that story.

That probably depends on how one feels about party bigwigs in Washington pre-selecting Congressional candidates in contested primaries. Not everyone is a fan of the practice, with the Sanders supporters among the loudest objectors on the Democratic side at the moment. The covert recording in #1005 is another matter, of course.
   1079. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5661676)
Boy, are some of us gonna have egg on our face when Trump collects his Nobel.

I'm only half-kidding.
   1080. Stormy JE Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:25 PM (#5661677)
The HPSCI Report on Russian Active Measures is out.

Among the findings is #44 on page 107:
Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, now a CNN national security analyst, provided inconsistent testimony to the Committee about his contacts with the media, including CNN.

(U) When initially asked about leaks related to the ICA in July 2017, former ONI Clapper flatly denied "discussing the dossier [compiled by Steele] or any other intelligence related to Russia hacking of the 2016 election with journalists."45 Clapper subsequently acknowledged discussing the "dossier with CNN journalist Jake Tapper," and admitted that he might have spoken with other journalists about the same topic.46 Clapper's discussion with Tapper took place in early January 2017, around the time IC leaders briefed President Obama and President-elect Trump, on "the Christopher Steele information,'' a two-page summary of which was " enclosed in" the highly classified version of the ICA.”47

(U) On January 10, 2017, CNN published an article by Tapper and others, which claimed that "classified documents presented last week to President Obama and President-elect Trump included allegations . .. about Mr. Trump'' that were (1} presented in a two-page synopsis ... appended to a report on Russian interference in the 2016 election" and (2} derived from "memos compiled by a former British intelligence operative.’"48 Those claims were sourced to "multiple U.S. officials with direct knowledge of the briefings."49 The next day, Clapper issued a statement describing a call with President-elect Trump in which Clapper "expressed my profound-dismay at the leaks that have been appearing the in press" and "emphasized . . . that I do nof believe the leaks came from within the lC.”50

(U) The Committee assesses that leaks to CNN about the dossier were especially significant, since CNN's report "that a two-page synopsis of the report was given to President Obama and Trump" was the proximate cause of BuzzFeed News' decision to publish the dossier for the first time just a few hours later.51 Until that point, the dossier had been "circulating among elected official, intelligence agents, and journalists," but remained unpublished. 52 As the accompanying article explained, "[n]ow BuzzFeed News is publishing the full document so that Americans can make up their own minds about allegations about the president-elect that have circulated at the highest levels of government."53

(U) In approximately early August 2017, shortly after his testimony to the committee, Clapper joined CNN as a national security analyst:’'54
Uh oh, better get Maaco.
   1081. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5661678)
That probably depends on how one feels about party bigwigs in Washington pre-selecting Congressional candidates in contested primaries. Not everyone is a fan of the practice, with the Sanders supporters among the loudest objectors on the Democratic side at the moment. The covert recording in #1005 is another matter, of course.


Interesting idea.

What is the prevailing opinion among Republicans and Mitch McConnell?
   1082. Stormy JE Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:29 PM (#5661679)
Boy, are some of us gonna have egg on our face when Trump collects his Nobel.

I'm only half-kidding.
About Trump collecting the Nobel Peace Prize or the lefties here coming into contact with self-awareness?
   1083. Zonk cooks his superfish with raisins Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:31 PM (#5661681)
Do they give out Nobel prizes for coaxing a Kim into making statements the Kims have delivered ever year or so for 30 years now?
   1084. Stormy JE Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:47 PM (#5661687)
Well, no, it doesn't make her appear to be a spy. It makes it appear that she's an agent of the Kremlin. About which the only thing that's surprising is that you finally admitted it, given that we've been trying to tell you it for a year and you pretended that she wasn't working for the Russian government. Glad to see you've finally caught on; better late than never.
And yet we were told with great confidence it was no BFD that an agent of the Kremlin was a Fusion GPS client -- the firm that was supposedly über-concerned about Russia working with the Trump campaign -- and used Simpson's talking points for the meeting with Jr., Manafort, and Kushner.
   1085. Stormy JE Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5661693)
Another interesting tidbit from the HPSCI report: The former Feinstein staffer on SCCI (Daniel Jones?) who represented Russian FM Lavrov raised $50M after the election from a handful of wealthy donors and then hired Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele to keep spreading the discredited Russian collusion narrative.

Did Feinstein know what her former aide was doing? If so, why didn't she disclose while her committee was investigating Fusion GPS? Considering Feinstein unilaterally released the transcript of Simpson's testimony, breaking with committee precedent, we already know the answer to the first question.
   1086. Swoboda is freedom Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5661694)
Do they give out Nobel prizes for coaxing a Kim into making statements the Kims have delivered ever year or so for 30 years now?

Well if they gave one to Obama, the standard is pretty low.

   1087. -- Posted: April 27, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5661695)
Of course, the only scenario is that she was meeting with him on behalf of the Russian government to collude with Trump to win the election.


Yep, sure -- which is why she never gave him a single thing that helped Trump win the election. And she had a long-standing professional relationship with Fusion. And at the same time the FBI was looking for any pretext out there to keep the FISA bugging going.

But you're right -- nothing there could lead anyone to suspect a set-up. Nothing at all.
   1088. -- Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5661698)
It should also be noted here that if Trump, Jr. had gone to the FBI and said, "I heard that the Russians have dirt on Hillary," under the Papadoupolous precedent, he, Trump, Jr., would have had an FBI investigation slapped on him. (*)

So much for the oh-so-earnest, "Any real American would have immediately run to the FBI with the information."

(*) Which would explain why Fusion would work with NKL to relay that fake "information" to Trump, Jr.
   1089. BrianBrianson Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5661699)
Then why didn't you say "Je ne me douche pas?"


Je ne me douche rien. Je ne me douche pas would just mean you're not showering, which we could've guessed. In practice, J'me douche rien, really.
   1090. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5661704)

And yet we were told with great confidence it was no BFD that an agent of the Kremlin was a Fusion GPS client -- the firm that was supposedly über-concerned about Russia working with the Trump campaign
Setting aside that Prevezon, not Veselnitskaya, was Fusion's client, I'm not quite understanding why doing litigation support for a Kremlin-linked company involved in a judicial proceeding in the U.S. presents concerns, let alone concerns comparable to a presidential campaign having dealings with Kremlin agents.

and used Simpson's talking points at the meeting with Jr., Manafort, and Kushner.
I think you, um, inferred that part.
   1091. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:21 PM (#5661706)
It should also be noted here that if Trump, Jr. had gone to the FBI and said, "I heard that the Russians have dirt on Hillary," under the Papadoupolous precedent, he, Trump, Jr., would have had an FBI investigation slapped on him. (*)
It should be noted that this is delusional and dishonest. FLTB has, as usual, fabricated the facts relating to George Papadopoulos. He did not go to the FBI and inform them of anything. He kept his dealings with the Russians a secret until he drunkenly bragged about them.
   1092. PepTech Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5661708)
Could Reich take Dersh in a DeathMatch?
Third: The 1st Amendment to the Constitution bars any law “respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” But Trump’s ban on travel into the United States from 6 muslim countries – which he initiated, advocated for, and oversees – violates that provision.

Fourth: The 1st Amendment also bars “abridging the freedom of the press.” But Trump’s labeling the press “the enemy of the people,” and choosing who he invites to news conferences based on whether they’ve given him favorable coverage, violates this provision.
Eh, not convinced. It's a slightly different approach than what I've seen before, and you'd have to present more proof than what I've seen so far.

I agree with what I think is the actual position of most posters here, which is that actual impeachment is not to be undertaken lightly and shouldn't be attempted at all unless it's pretty clear it's going to result in bipartisan conviction. Which is a state we're not within light-years of, at this point.
   1093. -- Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5661709)
You have, as usual, fabricated the facts relating to George Papadopoulos. He did not go to the FBI and inform them of anything. He drunkenly bragged about his private dealings with the Russians.


That wasn't the fact I was talking about, and, as usual, I "fabricated" nothing. (*) The FBI heard second-hand that he was dealing with people who said the Russians had dirt on Hillary and they investigated him. That's the exact template that would have obtained had Trump, Jr. gone to the FBI. In Trump, Jr.'s case he would have heard it directly from a Russian -- making an investigation of him even more likely.

Setting aside that Prevezon, not Veselnitskaya, was Fusion's client, I'm not quite understanding why doing litigation support for a Kremlin-linked company involved in a judicial proceeding in the U.S. presents concerns, let alone concerns comparable to a presidential campaign having dealings with Kremlin agents.


You missed the point here entirely -- because all you're doing is shilling. NKL had a long-standing professional relationship with Fusion and therefore would have been a natural person for Fusion to use if they wanted to try to set up Trump, Jr. Nothing more. I mean, yeah -- what an utter shock it is that it turned out that the person who approached Trump, Jr. -- NKL -- wound up having done a bunch of business with Fusion. /eyeroll.

(*) Nor did I say anywhere that Papa went to the FBI. You're lying again.
   1094. Stormy JE Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5661710)
Setting aside that Prevezon, not Veselnitskaya, was Fusion's client,
Veselnitskaya was Prevezon's attorney.
I'm not quite understanding why doing litigation support for a Kremlin-linked company involved in a judicial proceeding in the U.S. presents concerns, let alone concerns comparable to a presidential campaign having dealings with Kremlin agents.
It seems rather odd for a firm feverishly trying to find dirt on Russia-Trump ties would concurrently work with a company with ties to a Kremlin tax-fraud scheme uncovered by Sergei Magnitsky. Come on, Simpson was attempting to have the Magnitsky Act repealed, which included the planting of anti-Magnitsky/Bill Browder stories.
   1095. -- Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5661712)
He drunkenly bragged about his private dealings with the Russians.


Interestingly, Steele un-drunkenly bragged about his dealings with the Russians -- yet no investigation of him but instead embrace. Hmm. And people were telling the FBI that the Russians had dirt on H Clinton, making her potentially every bit as "compromisible" or "blackmailable" as the "pee tape" made Trump -- and no investigation of her and hers, either.

Funny, that.
   1096. gef the talking mongoose, amorphous lefty blob Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:39 PM (#5661713)
Well if they gave one to Obama, the standard is pretty low.


That occurred to me as well. Everyone on this page, I'm pretty sure, was as qualified as Obama for the Nobel he received.
   1097. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:42 PM (#5661714)
The FBI heard second-hand that he was dealing with people who said the Russians had dirt on Hillary and they investigated him. That's the exact template that would have obtained had Trump, Jr. gone to the FBI.
No, that's not remotely the "exact template." Hearing firsthand and hearing secondhand are not "exact"; they are nearly opposites.

If a judge goes to the FBI and says, "This litigant tried to bribe me," then the litigant gets investigated.
If the FBI hears rumors that a judge has been discussing bribes with a litigant, then the judge gets investigated.


NKL had a long-standing professional relationship with Fusion
What the #### is NKL?


(*) Nor did I say anywhere that Papa went to the FBI. You're lying again.
Yeah, you did. You're lying again. See, if you claim that situation A is the same as situation B, and a certain thing X happened in situation B, then you're logically claiming that that this thing X is also a characteristic of situation A.
   1098. Stormy JE Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:43 PM (#5661715)
Funny, that.
That's ok. In all likelihood, Strzok and Page have flipped and been providing investigators with the information needed to take down a good number of these #######.
   1099. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5661717)
Yep, sure -- which is why she never gave him a single thing that helped Trump win the election.
To quote future inmate Michael Cohen, "Sez who?"

And she had a long-standing professional relationship with Fusion.
False. Well, written vaguely enough, with no actual facts, that it's hard to classify it as anything other than rambling.

And at the same time the FBI was looking for any pretext out there to keep the FISA bugging going.
Delusion.
   1100. Stormy JE Posted: April 27, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5661720)
.pilF
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