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Monday, April 23, 2018

OTP 2018 Apr 23: The Dominant-Sport Theory of American Politics

All true, and I have joined in the tut-tutting. Yet I can’t help noticing that the people making these criticisms are mostly a bunch of white guys born in the 1960s. I came along near the start of that decade, so I’ve seen a few cultural shifts in my day, and the first one came via early-1970s headlines proclaiming “Baseball No Longer the National Pastime,” after polls showed that football had become America’s most popular sport. Pundits lamented football’s rise (“violence punctuated by committee meetings,” in George Will’s memorable phrase, though he was certainly no stranger to the press box at Redskins games), and indeed, the change coincided with a trend toward greater complication, bureaucratization, and crudity in American life. After brushing off the 1980s soccer scare, football remained unchallenged for decades.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 23, 2018 at 08:10 AM | 1350 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba, nfl, off-topic, politics, soccer

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   301. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5658979)
The NRA just broke a 15-year fundraising record:


Russian donations must be up.
   302. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5658982)
Russian donations must be up.
And I get accused of promoting "theories?" Some of you will lap up *anything* Fusion GPS spits out.
   303. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5658983)
Also, I'm pretty sure Trump never said he didn't stay the night in Moscow, just that he didn't spend the night in the hotel.


Well, we only have Comey's notes, but he says that Trump told him he flew back to NY the same night and did not spend that night in Moscow, period.


He said he had spoken to people who had been on the Miss Universe trip with him and they had reminded him that he didn't stay over night in Russia for that. He said he arrived in the morning, did events, then showered and dressed for the pageant at the hotel (he didn't say the hotel name) and left for the pageant. Afterwards, he returned only to get his things, because they departed for New York by plane that same night.


[edit] Doh! Cokes.
   304. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5658985)
For once, I agree with Trump...

Whether he will eventually end up pardoning Michael Cohen is a stupid question.

Because the answer is an obvious yes.
   305. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5658986)
Well, one would certainly think that the White House Physician would be thoroughly vetted before being appointed. Are you saying the Obama Administration didn't do that? How about the Navy, when they repeatedly promoted him, making him an Admiral? Or are you just assuming that an uninvestigated allegation is true, without even knowing what the allegation is? The linked article doesn't even suggest that the Committee Democrats believe that the allegations, which are not detailed, have merit as this point, just that they need to be reviewed.


One would think a cabinet nominee would be more thoroughly vetted than the WH physician, which does not require Senate confirmation, but maybe I'm wrong.

Be that as it may, the allegations of workplace misconduct stem from his tenure at the WH.

Misirlou seems to be willing to go to great lengths here to take a cheap shot at me, but he appears to be just jumping to conclusions, yet again. Sad.


One good turn deserves another, as you gave me plenty when I first commented on the nomination, that it was typical Trump impulsiveness and that it may not go down well. It's quite likely the WH did little to no vetting on this nominee.
   306. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:27 AM (#5658987)
Not the issue. Do we have evidence Trump spent the night at the hotel?


We have Keith Schiller:


WASHINGTON — After a business meeting before the Miss Universe Pageant in 2013, a Russian participant offered to "send five women" to Donald Trump's hotel room in Moscow, his longtime bodyguard told Congress this week, according to three sources who were present for the interview.

Two of the sources said the bodyguard, Keith Schiller, viewed the offer as a joke, and immediately responded, "We don't do that type of stuff."

The two sources said Schiller's comments came in the context of him adamantly disputing the allegations made in the Trump dossier, written by a former British intelligence operative, which describes Trump having an encounter with prostitutes at the hotel during the pageant. Schiller described his reaction to that story as being, "Oh my God, that's bull----," two sources said.

The conversation with the Russian about the five women took place after a morning meeting about the pageant in Moscow broke up, two sources said.

That night, two sources said, Schiller said he discussed the conversation with Trump as Trump was walking back to his hotel room, and Schiller said the two men laughed about it as Trump went to bed alone. Schiller testified that he stood outside Trump's hotel room for a time and then went to bed.


NBC
   307. manchestermets Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5658988)
I'm almost a decade out of practicing, but the one really unethical thing I remember was billing.


That's barely limited to lawyers. I had a manager in a software house I worked for 20 years ago who encouraged me to be not entirely honest when filling in my timesheets about how much time I'd spent doing (chargeable) development work as opposed to (non-chargeable) bug fixing. He was almost certainly the dodgiest bastard I've ever worked with.
   308. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5658989)
Want to call Peter King a "conservative?" OK, you go crazy with that.


He went crazy with being conservative years ago.


In 2004, King claimed in an interview with conservative talk radio host Sean Hannity that "no American Muslim leaders are cooperating in the war on terror," and that "80-85 percent of mosques in this country are controlled by Islamic fundamentalists .... This is an enemy living amongst us."


He has been a vocal opponent of illegal immigration. He opposed John McCain's 2007 effort to enact a path to citizenship for current illegal immigrants.


King also opposed McCain's calls for an end to coercive interrogation methods used with suspected terrorists. The New York Times wrote in 2006 that King had been "the Patriot Act's most fervent fan."[15] In 2008, he told the Times, "Look, we have not been attacked in seven years and it's not because of luck."


On May 4, 2017, King voted in favor of repealing the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) and passing the American Health Care Act (Trumpcare)


King supported President Donald Trump's 2017 executive order to temporarily curtail immigration to the United States from some Muslim-majority countries until better screening methods are devised. He stated that “I don’t think the Constitution applies to people coming in from outside the country, especially if there is a logical basis for it.”


In 2018 he voted to release the Nunes memo[86] written by Committee staff at the request of Republican Committee Chairman U.S. Representative Devin Nunes, over the objections of senior FBI leaders and all Democratic members of the committee.


King has a score of 4 out of 100 from the Human Rights Campaign for his voting record on LGBT rights issues.[92] King does not support same-sex marriage and opposed the Supreme Court taking on the landmark Obergefell v. Hodges case


In the wake of the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting, King posted on Facebook that it was a "vicious Islamic terrorist attack." He stated that the "Islamic threat to the United States is greater than at any time since 9/11." He proceeded to then critique "leftwing editors at the New York Times' and the "liberal ideologies" of the ACLU, stating that both the newspaper and organization were attempting to "intimidate" the Trump administration


Seems pretty conservative to me.

King supports banning individuals on the terrorist watch list from purchasing guns.[95] He also supports the banning of bump stocks, in the wake of the 2017 Las Vegas shooting. He describes the banning of bump stocks as being "morally, legally, and common sense-wise the right thing to do."[96]

He supports expanding background checks for commercial gun sales, including at gun shows, so much so that he co-sponsored a bipartisan bill with Mike Thompson to do so in 2013


NOT PURE ENOUGH! RINO!
   309. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5658990)
The National Rifle Association's Political Victory Fund raised $2.4 million from March 1 to March 31, the group's first full month of political fundraising since the nation's deadliest high school shooting on Valentine's Day, according to filings submitted to the Federal Elections Commission.


Nice. That's only $1 million less than the Stoneman HS kids raised in a week.
   310. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:30 AM (#5658991)
Russian donations must be up.

And I get accused of promoting "theories?" Some of you will lap up *anything* Fusion GPS spits out.


Yeah.

"While we do receive some contributions from foreign individuals and entities, those contributions are made directly to the NRA for lawful purposes," NRA's General Counsel John C. Frazer wrote to Wyden in a letter obtained by NPR. "Our review of our records has found no foreign donations in connection with a United States election, either directly or through a conduit."

Uh-huh.

The NRA has admitted as much... and subsequent investigations revealed more than admitted.
   311. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:30 AM (#5658994)
The NRA just broke a 15-year fundraising record:


And? Seriously, so what? You realize there are huge numbers of money sources and in isolation NRA fundraising means very little. If - through some action - I could increase NRA funding by 50% and increase all funding to progressive candidates by 100% (numbers completely made up) then I would do so* in an instant and twice on Sunday. If that same (pretend) action increased NRA funding by 50% and left progressive funding flat,then I wouldn't do it*.

So trumpeting on about NRA funding, as if that were the only thing in the world that mattered is silly in the extreme. Similarly trumpeting on about other fundraising in isolation is a bit silly, though at least with candidate specific fundraising in general it is more efficient (for a variety of reasons). In aggregate fundraising does tell us something, but even there not everything*.

* Of course votes are what really matters, and while $ is a fair proxy it is not perfect by any means. So above statements assume it is a valid proxy and not some weird hypothetical where $ goes up but votes go down.

And I get accused of promoting "theories?" Some of you will lap up *anything* Fusion GPS spits out.


I am pretty sure the Russia thing was mostly a joke. Lighten up Francis.

EDIT: I said mostly a joke, because I have hopes the NRA was not totally being illegal in how they were using their money from Russia, not that there was no money from Russia. I could easily be being too naive though. I am ever the optimist.
   312. SouthSideRyan Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5658996)
The $2.4 million haul is the most money raised by the NRA's political arm in one month since June 2003, the last month when electronic federal records were readily available. It surpasses the $1.1 million and $1.5 million raised in January and February 2013, the two months after the Sandy Hook school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut.


What a great time that was for the NRA.
   313. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5658998)
What a proud couple of months those were for the NRA.


Shooting happens.
"Thoughts and prayers"
Progressives react.
NRA raises money using scare tactics.
People blame progressives for the money raised and NOT the shooter, the NRA, or the people giving the money.


Democrats (especially progressives) are ALWAYS to blame. Heck it is 100% their fault Trump was elected, the NRA is as strong as it is, and when a sparrow drops.
   314. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5658999)
I can only imagine the NRA's haul if the Deep State decides to stage another false flag mass shooting...
   315. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5659001)
We have Keith Schiller:
No, we have an unnamed source claiming Keith Schiller said that.
   316. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5659004)
Democrats (especially progressives) are ALWAYS to blame. Heck it is 100% their fault Trump was elected, the NRA is as strong as it is, and when a sparrow drops.
Newsflash, Mouse: Both sides of the gun debate exploit tragedy. As has been pointed out repeatedly, DWS was on the phone with the anti-gun student activists the day after the massacre. The DNC immediately started raising money.
   317. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5659005)
No, we have an unnamed source claiming Keith Schiller said that.


Well, technically, three.

Has anyone refuted that that was what he told Congress?
   318. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5659008)
The NRA has admitted as much... and subsequent investigations revealed more than admitted.
Except Simpson claimed not that the NRA took a handful of donations from Russia but that tens of millions of dollars were funneled from Russia to bankroll the Trump election effort.
   319. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5659011)
Tump's a funny guy, even when he doesn't realize it. In making his case for cancelling the Iran deal, he made the case for keeping it in place. When asked what would happen if he cancelled the deal, he responded, in part: "...and if they re-start their nuclear program, there will be serious consequences, serious consequences."

Re-start. That means it's currently shut down. That means the deal is working. The only thing the deal was meant to do is shut down their nuclear program, and Trump just admitted it is shut down.
   320. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5659012)
Mind-blowing news, as the principled iconoclast and independent maverick Rand Paul made his usual media noise (this time against Mike Pompeo) and then voted to advance his nomination.
   321. zenbitz Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5659013)
Ratf*ucking SuperPAC is a tremendous band name.
   322. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5659016)

Do you, by chance, have a link to anywhere that has transcribed the memos into plain text? The embedded PDFs - even the ones with the text conversion option - are just so friggin annoying to search through.
No, I don't have such a link; I just ran the memos through OCR myself. Sorry.
   323. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5659017)
He said he arrived in the morning, did events, then showered and dressed for the pageant


Golden is a type of shower.
   324. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5659020)
Newsflash, Mouse: Both sides of the gun debate exploit tragedy. As has been pointed out repeatedly, DWS was on the phone with the anti-gun student activists the day after the massacre. The DNC immediately started raising money.


And you are blaming Democrats for both Democrats raising money AND for the NRA raising money.
   325. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5659021)
Re-start. That means it's currently shut down. That means the deal is working. The only thing the deal was meant to do is shut down their nuclear program, and Trump just admitted it is shut down.
Um, Trump mangling the English language doesn't suddenly mean the Iran nuke deal is working.
   326. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5659023)
Court filings, not leaks...

Prosecutors for special counsel Robert Mueller revealed in court filings Monday night that the FBI agents who raided former Trump campaign aide Paul Manafort’s home in July 2017 were searching for information on the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, among other documents.

In a filing arguing that the FBI’s search warrant for Manafort’s home in Alexandria, Virginia, was valid, prosecutors listed the items they were looking for. On the list was any correspondence with those who attended the Trump Tower meeting, as well as any communication with “Aras and Amin Agalorov.” The publicist for the younger Agalarov arranged the Trump Tower meeting, and the Agalarovs worked with President Donald Trump on the Miss Universe pageant in 2013.
   327. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:59 AM (#5659026)
And you are blaming Democrats for both Democrats raising money AND for the NRA raising money.
Not quite. I'm blaming the activist left (Dem lawmakers are playing catch-up) for waking up probably the one constituency that could save the GOP from a shellacking this fall.
   328. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 11:59 AM (#5659027)
Um Trump mangling the English language doesn't suddenly mean the Iran nuke deal is working.


I suppose 'working' is a relative term.

Compared to the Vichys like yourself in defense of Trump? Well, nothing works that hard or maniacally.
   329. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5659032)
White House Telling Republicans To Tone Down Pruitt Defenses

Sounds like it's time to cue up the Queen for another cabinet secretary....
   330. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5659034)
Compared to the Vichys like yourself in defense of Trump? Well, nothing works that hard or maniacally.
I'm old enough to remember when at least half of your posts contained substantive information. In order to restore some equilibrium, how about posting your Cubs thoughts here for the next few months?
   331. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5659036)
Geoffrey Ingersoll:
Can’t miss the irony of majority media lazily referring to conservative media pejoratively as “pro-Trump,” then glazing over in dumbfounded ecstasy as a NYT policial reporter recounts “being used” by Clinton and then crying when she lost.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
   332. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5659041)
I'm old enough to remember when at least half of your posts contained substantive information.


You were in high school in that mid-70s, you're old enough to own a white polyester leisure suit.
   333. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5659045)
   334. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5659050)
The NRA has admitted as much... and subsequent investigations revealed more than admitted.

That's pretty slimy, even for Zonk. Despite all the misleading headlines, from 2015-2018, the NRA received $2,512 from people with Russian addresses, who were likely U.S. citizens living abroad.

The scandal here is Zonk and others trying to suggest that there is something sinister about someone renewing their membership or making a contribution if they are living overseas. Perhaps someone should make a similar complaint about ersatz Canadians funding the Democratic Party?
   335. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5659054)
Port Authority ethics chairwoman resigns after intervening in daughter's traffic stop

Sigh


Speaking as someone who has worked in Municipal Government in Fort Lee for 28-plus years and whose office is within sight of the George Washington Bridge, I can say I am unsurprised.
   336. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5659055)
I'm old enough to remember when at least half of your posts contained substantive information. In order to restore some equilibrium, how about posting your Cubs thoughts here for the next few months?


I understand your confusion - given you dance on command for someone nowadays, but confusion or not - you should probably adjust your expectations to the idea that I don't dance at your command.
   337. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5659056)
the NRA received $2,512 from people with Russian addresses,


And we all know Russian money is only given directly, from people with Russian addresses. You ####### cockholster cnvt.
   338. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5659057)
Scott Adams: Kanye West ‘ripped a hole in reality’ with Candace Owens tweet:
“I love the way Candace Owens thinks,” Mr. West said.

While many websites and pundits were asking whether the artist has been “red pilled” (the term from “The Matrix” now synonymous with a life-altering epiphany), Mr. Adams says the repercussions are far more profound.

“It feels like there’s something big happening,” Mr. Adams said Monday in a Periscope video. “People are breaking out of their mental prisons.”
Ray must be on cloud nine right now...
   339. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5659058)
I'm blaming the activist left...


For literally everything. Because the very last people you are willing to hold to account are folks on the right who might cut you a check one day.
   340. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5659060)
 202. Stormy JE Posted: April 23, 2018 at 06:51 PM (#5658705)
Now nine dead in North York.

There was an anti-Semitic incident in North York a little over a year ago.


Yeah, how's that angle holding up for you, buddy?

Just before the van plowed down pedestrians, it appears Minassian lauded an American mass killer on his Facebook account, CNN law enforcement analyst Josh Campbell said.

"All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!" reads the message on the account investigators believe belongs to Minassian, Campbell said.

Rodger killed six people and injured 14 others in a stabbing, shooting and vehicle-ramming attack in 2014 near the UC Santa Barbara campus.

Investigators noted that Rodger was motivated by a personal grievance related to the extremist ideological subculture of men's rights activists propagated in online forums, such as 4Chan, Campbell said. Supporters believe women don't want gender equality and have been brainwashed by feminist propaganda.
   341. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5659061)
That's pretty slimy, even for Zonk.
Not anymore. Now it's standard zonkie fare.

And of course, when we eventually learned the Obama campaign in 2008 hid nearly $1.9M in illegal donations, zonkie was too distracted by a butterfly to comment.
   342. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5659063)
Ray must be on cloud nine right now...


He's too busy having orgasms due to Scott Adam's super brain.
   343. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5659064)
One of the things I've read from real lawyers is that they really don't care about The Absolute Truth so much as what they can prove.


This is absolutely axiomatic. If it can't be proven to an independent tribunal, it didn't happen. If you know what you're doing, you learn very early on to separate the two. It's not a matter of not caring about The Absolute Truth; it's more that The Absolute Truth doesn't matter -- in a business sense -- if it can't be proven.

It's particularly true in law enforcement.
   344. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5659067)
One would think a cabinet nominee would be more thoroughly vetted than the WH physician, which does not require Senate confirmation, but maybe I'm wrong.

Pretty sure you're wrong on that, at least for certain types of vetting. Who has the greater access to the President? Who can prescribe and administer drugs to the President? Even more importantly, there's no indication at this point that there has been any failure of vetting. You can't necessarily blame the vetting for not addressing false allegations, or even true allegations if no one had come forward previously. Even the Senate opponents of the nomination haven't vouched for allegations against Jackson, although I see there have now been some vague leaks, so maybe folks should wait and see before believing the rumor of the day.

EDIT: The allegations are described here as word-of-mouth rumors of over-prescribing and workplace misconduct. That could be some nut ball claiming Jackson was feeding Obama's amphetamine addiction. Senator Manchin (D-WV), who is on the Veterans Affirs Committee, noted: “Swirl of allegations happens all the time. You have to show proof. Haven’t seen that yet.”

   345. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5659069)
Not the issue. Do we have evidence Trump spent the night at the hotel?


Actually, the issue is: Who cares? Who cares if he had an informal, work-related meeting with Comey and flat out lied to him ten times? Comey works for Trump, not the other way around. The Brigade has a hard time accepting this, given their affliction, but that isn't binding on the rest of us.
   346. Traderdave Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5659070)
I have seen that Ronny Jackson has been accused of "drinking on the job" but no details. Was it an occasional glass of wine at lunch, or maybe a bottle in his office that was occasionally broken out after 5:00, or was he known to get hammered on the clock? The first two are nothing, the latter one is material.
   347. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5659072)
Prosecutors for special counsel Robert Mueller revealed in court filings Monday night that the FBI agents who raided former Trump campaign aide Paul Manafort’s home in July 2017 were searching for information on the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, among other documents.

In a filing arguing that the FBI’s search warrant for Manafort’s home in Alexandria, Virginia, was valid, prosecutors listed the items they were looking for. On the list was any correspondence with those who attended the Trump Tower meeting, as well as any communication with “Aras and Amin Agalorov.” The publicist for the younger Agalarov arranged the Trump Tower meeting, and the Agalarovs worked with President Donald Trump on the Miss Universe pageant in 2013.


This is bad for the KEEP HOPE ALIVE!! crew, given that Manafort wasn't charged with any kind of Russia-related conspiracy with anyone, even after a bunch of his communications were seized.
   348. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5659076)
That's pretty slimy, even for Zonk. Despite all the misleading headlines, from 2015-2018, the NRA received $2,512 from people with Russian addresses, who were likely U.S. citizens living abroad.

The scandal here is Zonk and others trying to suggest that there is something sinister about someone renewing their membership or making a contribution if they are living overseas. Perhaps someone should make a similar complaint about ersatz Canadians funding the Democratic Party?


Of course, what Clapper fails to note is that over the last month - the NRA has changed its story a couple times... so, as he says, might be worth watching.
   349. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5659079)
This is bad for the KEEP HOPE ALIVE!! crew, given that Manafort wasn't charged with any kind of Russia-related conspiracy with anyone, even after a bunch of his communications were seized.


On the flip side, if they got the warrant centered around evidence of those communications, that would seem to indicate a lot of smoke.

For the millionth time I don't think it's very useful to speculate on what Mueller does and doesn't have. His team is playing it incredibly close to the vest, as they should. In fact the FBI could take notes on how to run an investigation.
   350. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5659080)
That's pretty slimy, even for Zonk.

Not anymore. Now it's standard zonkie fare.


Always cute when the trumpanzees play pattycake....
   351. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5659081)
Scott Adams: Kanye West ‘ripped a hole in reality’ with Candace Owens tweet:

One major problem with that link is that to read the story you have to un-adblock a paper that's still owned by the Unification Church. Thanks but no thanks.
   352. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5659082)
For the millionth time I don't think it's very useful to speculate on what Mueller does and doesn't have.


There's really no "speculation" about the point I made. Manafort, in fact, was not charged with a RUSSIA! RUSSIA! conspiracy of any kind. No one has been to date, including the 13 (*) indicted Russians. (**)

(*) Or whatever.

(**) EDIT: Meaning that the 13 indicted Russians weren't charged with conspiring with any Trump people. I believe there were charges that they conspired with each other, but that's neither here nor there.
   353. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 24, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5659083)
When Doctor Ronny was nominated for the Cabinet, it was fine and the critics couldn't afford to be right because he'd originally been picked by Obama. Now that the doctor's nomination has tanked, it's likely Obama's fault for not fully vetting him. Yet it's not the vetting's fault for not vetting him. Either way, we need to focus on Obama, even though in other cases other people wrongly fixate on which president picked someone. And we mustn't get out ahead of this unverified story that has immediately unfolded exactly the way the story indicated it would.
   354. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:00 PM (#5659085)
The most amusing way the Mueller investigation can play out is if GOP President Trump ends up obviously guilty on a whole raft of things, to the point where the GOP is embarrassed to have him lead them, and yet there is no explicit Russia collusion presented (due to lack of evidence) and so for the next few years we will hear about how it was all Russia! Russia! and the investigation was a failure and so on endlessly. And we can laugh each and every time.
   355. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:00 PM (#5659087)
For the millionth time I don't think it's very useful to speculate on what Mueller does and doesn't have.

There's really no "speculation" about the point I made. Manafort, in fact, was not charged with a RUSSIA! RUSSIA! conspiracy of any kind. No one has been to date, including the 13 (*) indicted Russians.

(*) Or whatever.


Those who keep counseling patience re: Mueller ought to do the same regarding Sessions, Rosenstein, and Horowitz. I'm guessing we'll learn in the coming months that the supposed Papadopoulos incident was a set-up as well.
   356. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:01 PM (#5659088)
In other news from the braintrust, Kris Kobach, who has already been pantsed multiple times in his debacle of a defense of a Kansas voter law -- just pantsed himself.
   357. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:06 PM (#5659092)
On the Sexual Harassment front, more bad news for John Podesta. His creation, the Democratic think tank Center for American Progress, is being accused of going soft on a sexual harasser and retaliating against his victims. The employee union says CAP failed to take reasonable steps to prevent incidents of sexual harassment and perpetuated a hostile work environment. More at link.
   358. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5659093)
Those who keep counseling patience re: Mueller ought to do the same regarding Sessions, Rosenstein, and Horowitz. I'm guessing we'll learn in the coming months that the supposed Papadopoulos incident was a set-up as well.


"as well"?

Wasn't somebody just whining about "theories"?

If memory serves, it was the same someone who is now piling further theories on top of previous theories built on a foundation of other theories wrapped in still more theories.
   359. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5659097)
"as well"?

Wasn't somebody just whining about "theories"?

If memory serves, it was the same someone who is now piling further theories on top of previous theories built on a foundation of other theories wrapped in still more theories.
Like I said, investigations take time. Back in January, the usual suspects here were claiming our observation that McCabe was pushed out the door was batshit crazy.
   360. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:16 PM (#5659099)
More at link.
Actually, there isn't. :(
   361. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5659102)
Like I said, investigations take time. Back in January, the usual suspects here were claiming our observation that McCabe was pushed out the door was batshit crazy.


So you're like a hedge fund for theories using bitcoins?

Sounds promising.
   362. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:18 PM (#5659103)
You can't necessarily blame the vetting for not addressing false allegations, or even true allegations if no one had come forward previously.


All indications point to the fact that there was no vetting. Trump liked the guy, and appointed him, and dumped him in the Senate's lap.
   363. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5659107)
All indications point to the fact that there was no vetting. Trump liked the guy, and appointed him, and dumped him in the Senate's lap.


I have no idea how much or little he was originally vetted, but in general I should think after several years you would want to re-vet candidates who were previously vetted, in case things happened between then and now (of course).

That said I have no opinion on this specific appointment other than it seems pretty typical for a Trump appointment.
   364. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:27 PM (#5659110)
I have no idea how much or little he was originally vetted, but in general I should think after several years you would want to re-vet candidates who were previously vetted, in case things happened between then and now (of course).

That said I have no opinion on this specific appointment other than it seems pretty typical for a Trump appointment.


Looks like Trump is gong to pull the nomination, and blame it on Congress.

"I said to Dr. Jackson, 'These are vicious people. What do you need this for? Why do you need to subject yourself to this?'" he went on to say that it's ultimately his decision, but "He doesn't need to do this. I wouldn't do it."
   365. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5659111)
   366. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:30 PM (#5659112)
Looks like Trump is gong to pull the nomination.


Forcing the Pruitt resignation to a different night in the schedule.

You'd think such a genius TV guy would know that these things take time to build an audience... you can't just keep shuffling them around.

Look at the Rexy canning. He let that one build an audience and it became a bit hit.
   367. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:30 PM (#5659113)
Looks like Trump is gong to pull the nomination, and blame it on Congress.
Looks like Trump is gong to pull the nomination, and blame it on Congress.

Sad!
   368. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:31 PM (#5659115)
Looks like Trump is gong to pull the nomination.
Fine by me. Considering recent history, the next head of the DVA should be a veteran with private-sector management experience.
   369. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5659118)
Maxine Waters (D-CA): I certainly meant it when I said James Comey had no credibility, except when he says bad things about Donald Trump. I see some here have followed her lead on this. Never a good idea.
   370. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5659119)
Much better, Clapper!

FTA:
"All of this to say, I surely expected better out of an organization that housed a national campaign on sexual assault."


Pretty much sums up the state of the American left today...
   371. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5659120)
Actually, the issue is: Who cares? Who cares if he had an informal, work-related meeting with Comey and flat out lied to him ten times? Comey works for Trump, not the other way around. The Brigade has a hard time accepting this, given their affliction, but that isn't binding on the rest of us.
Comey reported to Trump. He worked for the American people.

Not that the issue here is whether Trump lied to Comey, so not sure why you're pretending that this is what anyone is discussing. The issue is the reliability of allegations in the dossier, and the credibility of Trump's denials.
   372. Count Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:34 PM (#5659121)
Jesus JE you were wrong about McCabe and you are sticking to Contreras / Flynn despite your idle speculation being repeatedly shot down and now you think Papadopoulos was set up? "Give it time- although all my prior theories were implausible and turned out to be false, I will eventually claim vindication." And Rosenstein and Sessions now too? Have you gone full MAGA?
   373. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5659122)
I'm guessing we'll learn in the coming months that the supposed Papadopoulos incident was a set-up as well.


Which part? It's a multi-part situation:

1. The alleged drunk things Papa said to foreigners.
2. The bona fides about opening an investigation based on it (*)
3. The FBI interviews in which he allegedly lied (**)

(*) P: "I heard the Russians have dirt on Hillary."
FBI: "OK, we're not going to investigate Hillary, we're going to investigate you."
SBB: "LOL"

(**) But not, the careful but apparently rare reader will note, about the existence of the "dirt" conversation -- merely its timing. The usual suspect types continue to miss this distinction in their various, "Why would he lie?" musings.
   374. Count Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5659123)
Comey made terrible decisions and firing him to obstruct the Russia investigation was bad and his memos detailing his meetings with Trump are credible.
   375. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5659124)
Comey made terrible decisions and firing him to obstruct the Russia investigation was bad and his memos detailing his meetings with Trump are credible.
So... what revelations in those memos highlighted the urgent need for a special counsel?
   376. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5659130)
To be clear, I take no pleasure in the Jackson fiasco. It's clear he should have never been nominated in the first place. A normal WH would have done their due diligence, and turned up these skeletons before making the nomination public. They could have been handled quietly, the nomination never officially made, and no one need be the wiser. Instead, because of his incompetent and ham handed way of doing things, another person working for Trump gets publicly #### on.
   377. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:41 PM (#5659132)
Jesus JE you were wrong about McCabe and you are sticking to Contreras / Flynn despite your idle speculation being repeatedly shot down and now you think Papadopoulos was set up? "Give it time- although all my prior theories were implausible and turned out to be false, I will eventually claim vindication." And Rosenstein and Sessions now too? Have you gone full MAGA?
NARRATOR: Nothing's been shot down.

And it's pretty hysterical that, despite your loud and incessant claims that McCabe leaked to Barrett to hurt Hillary, instead of it being a sorry CYA effort, you have yet to acknowledge that Lynch and Yates were trying to deep-six the Clinton Foundation investigation.

EDIT: Don't forget that McCabe held onto thousands of Clinton emails found on Weiner’s laptop at least a month before Comey told Congress. So again, let's dispense with the incessant bullshit commentary that McCabe was looking to harm Team Hillary.
   378. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5659134)
"All of this to say, I surely expected better out of an organization that housed a national campaign on sexual assault."

Pretty much sums up the state of the American left today...


I suppose this Brendan Strong character could always switch parties.

Then, he wouldn't need to bother with highly inappropriate and harassing text messages about wanting to do do things to the victim's ##### -- he could just brag about being able to grab any ##### he wants.

As an added bonus, he could even do it to underage girls, and the OTP resident expert on "slimy" would demand forensics investigations of yearbooks.

   379. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5659135)
So... what revelations in those memos highlighted the urgent need for a special counsel?


I started calling for a special counsel when accusations against Trump were many and Trump accused Obama of bugging him. With so many charges and counter charges flying around regarding presidents of each major party I wanted a non-partisan investigation to clear the air and find out what was what. After the Comey firing it became extremely obvious a special counsel of some sort was needed, and fortunately that is what we got.

So it is irrelevant at this late date if those specific memos necessitated a special counsel.
   380. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5659138)
Jesus JE you were wrong about McCabe and you are sticking to Contreras / Flynn despite your idle speculation being repeatedly shot down and now you think Papadopoulos was set up? "Give it time- although all my prior theories were implausible and turned out to be false, I will eventually claim vindication." And Rosenstein and Sessions now too? Have you gone full MAGA?


He's gone full right-wing nut. He sources his "facts" from Daily Caller and The Federalist, and the edge of the right wing Twitter-verse where "standard crazy GOP hack" edges up on "truly unhinged and dangerous right wing radicals." His embrace of Trump and Trumpism isn't so much "going full on MAGA" as it is curling six recursive loops deep into his own ####### of cognitive dissonance in order to maintain the belief that the real villains are always - and I mean ALWAYS for Juan - "the left," "the biased media," and/or the Clintons, in some combination or random order.
   381. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5659139)
He's gone full right-wing nut. He sources his "facts" from Daily Caller and The Federalist, and the edge of the right wing Twitter-verse where "standard crazy GOP hack" edges up on "truly unhinged and dangerous right wing radicals." His embrace of Trump and Trumpism isn't so much "going full on MAGA" as it is curling six recursive loops deep into his own ####### of cognitive dissonance in order to maintain the belief that the real villains are always - and I mean ALWAYS for Juan - "the left," "the biased media," and/or the Clintons, in some combination or random order.


td:dr -- find a friend or lover that looks at you like JE does Trump.
   382. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5659140)
After the Comey firing it became extremely obvious a special counsel of some sort was needed, and fortunately that is what we got.


That didn't become "extremely obvious" in the least. Regular DOJ/FBI could have done the investigation.
   383. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5659141)
Comey made terrible decisions and firing him to obstruct the Russia investigation was bad


No, it was good. He botched the Russia investigation badly. Indeed, it very well may be that he started the whole thing on a complete pretext. The IG is looking at it, and Congress was just given some of the relevant memos about the founding acts.

Same with the FISA warrants.

The bona fides of the entire RUSSIA! RUSSIA! enterprise remain very much in question. What we've seen to date about its inception is not reassuring, to say the least.
   384. DavidFoss Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:54 PM (#5659142)
After the Comey firing it became extremely obvious a special counsel of some sort was needed, and fortunately that is what we got.

Trump having the Russians in the oval office the day after the firing, tell them Comey was a nutjob and that firing him would relieve the pressure. Then telling the Russians' Israeli intel during the same meeting?

They were just asking to have a Special Counsel appointed.
   385. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5659143)
Folks here who spent eight years refuting every Obama controversy or scandal by calling critics NUTTERS and RACISTS or both are in no position to act as judge and jury about media publications who are breaking stories their MSM colleagues have either essentially ignored or downplayed.

Here's the most obvious example: ‘Pakistani Mystery Man’: Awans’ Father Transferred Data To Pakistani Government, Ex-Partner Claims

Also, see #331.
   386. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5659145)
The New York Times on April 21:
Ms. Brown wants to use Facebook’s existing Watch product – a service introduced in 2017 as a premium product with more curation that has nonetheless been flooded with far-right conspiracy programming like ‘Palestinians Pay $400 Million Pensions For Terrorist Families.

The New York Times on April 23:
Correction: April 23, 2018
An earlier version of this article erroneously included a reference to Palestinian actions as an example of the sort of far-right conspiracy stories that have plagued Facebook. In fact, Palestinian officials have acknowledged providing payments to the families of Palestinians killed while carrying out attacks on Israelis or convicted of terrorist acts and imprisoned in Israel; that is not a conspiracy theory.

That's a rather basic item to get so incredibly wrong.
   387. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5659146)
That didn't become "extremely obvious" in the least. Regular DOJ/FBI could have done the investigation.
Also, recall that Comey said aloud that he hoped the leaking of his memos to Andy's beloved Gray Lady would result in the hiring of a special counsel. Well, what was in there that's so incredibly damning?
   388. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5659148)
Trump having the Russians in the oval office the day after the firing, tell them Comey was a nutjob and that firing him would relieve the pressure.


No one has testified to any such thing -- not that it matters. A summary document of an oval meeting allegedly says it.

"Pressure" refers to diplomacy with Russia, in any event. Which makes perfect sense. Comey's nutjob act did put pressure on Trump's Russian diplomacy -- which by the way he's empowered to carry out, given that he's ... you know ... the elected president.

Moreover, the record is clear, including by Comey's own testimony, that Trump was told prior to the oval meeting that he wasn't under investigation. So there was no personal investigatory "pressure" to relieve.

There is no obstruction case there, one is not going to be brought, and he's not going to be impeached and removed for it even if the House turns blue in November. The thought that he is is a core symptom of TDS.

   389. Count Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5659149)
A special counsel was appointed because Trurnp fired Comey.

JE you keep not acknowledging you were wrong and trying to throw out other questions without articulating a theory of wrongdoing. You have completely lost the thread. You've variously said the Mueller investigation was justified and should not be instructed on one hand and on the other hand eagerly jumped on a bunch of BS theories designed to protect the president.
   390. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:01 PM (#5659150)
That's a rather basic item to get so incredibly wrong.
When Swampy Sammy is your source...
   391. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5659152)
WTF is the "scandal" in that daily caller link? Goodness. That some shady ass IT guy for the DNC (who happened to be Muslim, extra scary!) had access to some classified material? And WTF does that have to do with Obama?
   392. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5659153)
A special counsel was appointed because Trurnp fired Comey.


Presidents fire people all the time. There's no need for a special counsel when they do.
   393. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:08 PM (#5659154)
When Swampy Sammy is your source...


Deflect, deflect, project personal failings onto others. It's the Jason way. You've been looping your head ever deeper into your ass for 18 months now. All because you can't be seen to have enemies to the right of you.
   394. Stormy JE Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:11 PM (#5659155)
A special counsel was appointed because Trurnp fired Comey.
Comey:
And my judgment was I needed to get that out in the public square so I asked a friend of mine to share the content of the memo with a reporter. And my judgment was I needed to get that out in the public square so I asked a friend of mine to share the content of the memo with a reporter. Didn’t do it myself for a variety of reasons but I asked him to because I thought that might prompt the appointment of a special counsel. So I asked a close friend of mine to do it.
Again, what was in these memos that's so damning?
You've variously said the Mueller investigation was justified and should not be instructed on one hand and on the other hand eagerly jumped on a bunch of BS theories designed to protect the president.
I've said numerous times that Mueller should be able to complete his investigation (EDIT: and still do) but, having read the Comey memos, now question what the grounds were for his hiring in the first place.
   395. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:11 PM (#5659156)
Comey, by his own account, told Trump on January 6, 2017 that he wasn't under investigation. That fact alone shreds any possible "obstruction" case. Then Comey repeated it to Trump on January 27, 2017 and then again on March 30, 2017.

Shred, shred.

The defendant obstructed justice in an investigation by firing the man who assured him three times that he wasn't under investigation in the investigation the defendant obstructed.

Yeah, good luck with that.
   396. . Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5659157)
Again, what was in these memos that's so damning?


Nothing in the memos regarding what Trump allegedly said to Comey about Flynn remotely warrants a special counsel.
   397. Zonk is One Individual Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5659159)
WTF is the "scandal" in that daily caller link? Goodness. That some shady ass IT guy for the DNC (who happened to be Muslim, extra scary!) had access to some classified material? And WTF does that have to do with Obama?


I was trying to figure out the same thing - but I don't think you even made into the rabbit hole... The story is actually that a guy in jail for fraud already, with a rather sordid history of fraud/similar is claiming that the father of the previously hashed to death DWS aide delivered some USB drive to another rather loony sounding Pakistani character (who apparently claims he's a kingmaker with the power to fire US Presidents).

It's all quite confusing.
   398. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5659161)
The defendant obstructed justice in an investigation by firing the man who assured him three times that he wasn't under investigation in the investigation the defendant obstructed.

Yeah, good luck with that.


So, it's impossible to obstruct justice if one is not under investigation? interesting.
   399. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5659163)
Again, what was in these memos that's so damning?


Ask the guy who appointed the special counsel and keeps saying he is doing a fine job. For me I didn't use the memos as an excuse for the special counsel and so don't feel the need to have them justify my call for a special counsel.

And at this point it is a moot point anyway. We have a special counsel and he has uncovered a bunch of stuff, leading to various actors flipping, guilty pleas, and charges. Even if the memos are completely innocuous and shouldn't have led to anything, so what? (Actual question) Do you think the Mueller investigation should be halted because the memos don't live up to your view of what they should have been?
   400. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 24, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5659166)
Presidents fire people all the time.
They don't fire FBI directors all the time. And certainly not to shut down investigations.

Comey, by his own account, told Trump on January 6, 2017 that he wasn't under investigation. That fact alone shreds any possible "obstruction" case.
Like -- coincidentally -- your Trumpista comrade Ray, you keep forgetting that Donald Trump isn't the only person in the country. Even if Trump implausibly were innocent and even if he knew he was innocent and even if Comey wasn't investigating Trump, there was a Russia investigation going on. Trump firing Comey to protect Trump Jr. or Manafort or Kushner or Gates or Flynn or Papadopoulos or Melania or Scott Baio from justice would constitute obstruction to the same extent that firing Comey to protect himself would.
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