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Monday, April 23, 2018

OTP 2018 Apr 23: The Dominant-Sport Theory of American Politics

All true, and I have joined in the tut-tutting. Yet I can’t help noticing that the people making these criticisms are mostly a bunch of white guys born in the 1960s. I came along near the start of that decade, so I’ve seen a few cultural shifts in my day, and the first one came via early-1970s headlines proclaiming “Baseball No Longer the National Pastime,” after polls showed that football had become America’s most popular sport. Pundits lamented football’s rise (“violence punctuated by committee meetings,” in George Will’s memorable phrase, though he was certainly no stranger to the press box at Redskins games), and indeed, the change coincided with a trend toward greater complication, bureaucratization, and crudity in American life. After brushing off the 1980s soccer scare, football remained unchallenged for decades.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 23, 2018 at 08:10 AM | 1350 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba, nfl, off-topic, politics, soccer

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   801. Stormy JE Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:18 PM (#5660701)
I stand by that. If you link to a headline which is misleading, you bear responsibility for it. Especially if you make an editorial comment based on that misleading headline (which you did).
I bear responsibility for providing a link with nothing edited out? Stop wasting our time with this inane garbage.
   802. Stormy JE Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:19 PM (#5660702)
Are you certain that being forced to breath by machine for months, years on end, is not?
Who's claiming the child is currenlty being tortured?

Folks here who have argued in favor of late-term and partial-birth abortions ought not be defending the government saying #### you to the parents of this child.
   803. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:20 PM (#5660704)
I bear responsibility for providing a link with nothing edited out?


yes. this is fundamental.
   804. Stormy JE Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:23 PM (#5660707)
yes. this is fundamental.
Batshit insane.
   805. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:27 PM (#5660710)
Who's claiming the child is currenlty being tortured?


Jesus Christ. It's like arguing with a 5 year old. You claim that cutting off the breathing is torture, and thus ought not be done. That's fine as far as it goes. But one must consider whether or not keeping a brain dead person on life support for days, weeks, months, years, is also torture. it's an unknowable question, but hardly irrelevant.
   806. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:28 PM (#5660712)
Batshit insane.


You are a very strange person.
   807. greenback took the 110 until the 105 Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:33 PM (#5660713)
Speaking of batshit insane, I saw this on other social media. Apologies if it's been posted already. Read the title in the link. Yes, it's that bad.
   808. tshipman Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:41 PM (#5660720)
Hello? His death will be caused by prolonged asphyxiation so don't give us lectures about torture, k?


This garbage is so toxic.
   809. Stormy JE Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:47 PM (#5660723)
it's an unknowable question, but hardly irrelevant.
Good grief. Again, read aloud what you type before hitting SEND. It will do you some good.
   810. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:50 PM (#5660725)
Good grief. Again, read aloud what you type before hitting SEND. It will do you some good.


So, cutting off a breathing machine from a brain dead person is torture, but keeping a brain dead person on a breathing machine for an indefinite period is not? Are you God?
   811. Stormy JE Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:56 PM (#5660727)
So, cutting off a breathing machine from a brain dead person is torture, but keeping a brain dead person on a breathing machine for an indefinite period is not? Are you God?
I asked for evidence that keeping the child alive constituted torture and all you heed and hawed in response.

In your mind, the parents shouldn't have control over their child's well-being; the state is G-d.

And don't ever again scoff about death panels because that's pretty much what this is.
   812. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:57 PM (#5660728)
In your mind, the parents shouldn't have the say; the state is G-d.


That is the exact opposite of what I said.
   813. canadian shield Posted: April 25, 2018 at 11:58 PM (#5660730)
This is also a nation with public health care. You're in favor of forcing the people of England (at gunpoint!) to keep paying for the brain-dead body of a child to be on a respirator when there is no hope of recovery.
   814. zenbitz Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:02 AM (#5660732)
Hey, NYC peeps - anyone have experience with Air BnB in the city? Looking to stay UWS but not that picky. I Like subways. 5 days including weekend.
   815. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:02 AM (#5660733)
And don't ever again scoff about death panels because that's pretty much what this is.


This has nothing to do with death panels. You don't give a rip about that. You have been asked several times about the Terry Schiavo case and have been silent. One wonders why.
   816. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5660735)
I asked for evidence that keeping the child alive constituted torture and all you heed and hawed in response.


Terry Schiavo. And I have said multiple times that I disagree with the court. The issue took with you yesterday was posting a link with the title that a UK court has forbidden parents from moving the child to Italy for much needed health care. To say that link was misleading would be an understatement
   817. Stormy JE Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:09 AM (#5660737)
You're in favor of forcing the people of England (at gunpoint!) to keep paying for the brain-dead body of a child to be on a respirator when there is no hope of recovery.
So there you go: Government-run health care results in death panels. Awesome.
   818. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:10 AM (#5660738)
The issue I took with you today is you posting another misleading link, which suggested the UK is surpressing free speech without clause. that has been argued and I'm not going to get back into it, but the point being, I though you claimed to be a Republican?
   819. Stormy JE Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:10 AM (#5660739)
You don't give a rip about that.
Have you condemned Comey yet? Of course not.
   820. Stormy JE Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:12 AM (#5660740)
You have been asked several times about the Terry Schiavo case and have been silent.
Only here, the parents are seeking continued life support for their child.

EDIT: Several times? #816 is the first time I've seen Schiavo mentioned.
   821. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:15 AM (#5660742)
Have you condemned Comey yet? Of course not.


I see. So, the UK government is evil because they have taken control over the guardians rights in a life or death situation. but you refuse to comment on whether an identical situation in 2004 was evil in the US because I won't condemn Comey.

Thank you for wasting my time #######.
   822. Stormy JE Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:18 AM (#5660743)
Dude, it's worth examining whether you're in a vegetative state.
   823. greenback took the 110 until the 105 Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:19 AM (#5660744)
Dude, it's worth examining whether you're in a vegetative state.

I bet he understands that 10>0.
   824. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 26, 2018 at 12:31 AM (#5660747)
How many grounds for resignation here? Yet, strangely, there seems to be silence - California Assemblywoman: "I want to punch the next Asian person I see in the face".
California Assemblywoman Cristina Garcia, the prominent #MeToo activist now under investigation for groping and sexual harassment of former legislative staffers, was reprimanded by former Assembly Speaker John Perez in 2014 for making racially insensitive comments directed toward Asians.
. . .
Sources familiar with the incident say Garcia’s anti-Asian remarks came during a legislative battle that arose when Asian-American community activists successfully lobbied to defeat a Democratic proposal to overturn California’s ban on affirmative action in college admissions. They argued that such a move could hurt Asian student admission rates. . . . Garcia, the sources said, erupted in anger during a tense meeting of the entire Assembly Democratic caucus. “This makes me feel like I want to punch the next Asian person I see in the face,” according to sources present at the meeting and other legislative sources who were told about the comments in the immediate aftermath.
. . .
The revelations about Garcia’s past use of racially insensitive language come as political troubles continue to mount for the Bell Gardens Democrat, who, sources say, is preparing to return to the Assembly after a voluntary leave of absence and run for reelection.

Her leave followed POLITICO’s report of a formal complaint that she groped a former legislative staffer after a legislative softball game. She also faces allegations, also first reported by POLITICO, that she sexually harassed David John Kernick, a former staff member in her office, allegedly urging him and other staffers to play “spin the bottle” after a night of drinking in 2014.
. . .
And in a March interview with KQED radio, Garcia acknowledged referring to Perez as a “homo” and said she used “candid language” in what she believed was a “safe space” of her office. Kernick, the former Garcia staffer, told POLITICO the legislator also used the slur “faggot” to refer to Perez in the wake of the affirmative action debate, though Garcia has denied that.
. . .
POLITICO has found that the Democratic lawmaker has embellished a part of her résumé — her claim to hold a master’s degree from UCLA — marking the second time in her legislative career that Garcia has been discovered to have made false claims about her educational background. Officials of the university confirmed to POLITICO that Garcia has never attended the school.

I may have lost count, but I believe the list includes anti-Asians comments, sexual harassment, homophobic remarks, and resume fraud. Hard to believe, but more at link, including what seems like a pretty severe split between the Building & Construction Trade Unions and legislative Dems over job curtailing legislation.
   825. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 01:38 AM (#5660753)
Dershowitz can't have a point, because David promised us that it was premature to talk about whether Cohen was being "pressured":

Alan Dershowitz said prosecutors are engaged in "an epic battle for the soul and cooperation of Michael Cohen," the longtime lawyer to President Donald Trump whose office, home and hotel room were raided by the FBI this month.

Dershowitz, a Harvard law professor emeritus, told ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos on "This Week" Sunday that prosecutors could potentially be threatening Cohen with a long prison term if he fails to cooperate.

There is "a sword of Damocles hanging over his head," said Dershowitz, who appeared on a "This Week" panel of lawyers discussing the implications of the April 9 raids during which investigators seized Cohen's electronic devices.

“After those raids, how serious is the threat to Cohen and Trump?” Stephanopoulos asked Dershowitz.

“Oh, it’s a very serious threat,” Dershowitz said. “They have enormous abilities to really put pressure" on a witness.

But the law professor also said he's not sure whether Cohen will "flip" to become a prosecution witness who could possibly give some kind of evidence against his client, Trump.

"I think it's very hard not to flip when they’re threatening you with long imprisonment, but I don’t think we know enough," Dershowitz said.

   826. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 01:40 AM (#5660754)
Gorsuch’s Dissent in Oil States is a preview that Gorsuch has high regard for private property rights.

Gorsuch disagreed with the majority's opinion that patents are public rights or analogous to "public franchises" (such as the right to build a railroad or a toll bridge). Instead, Gorsuch argued "Until recently, most everyone considered an issued patent a personal right—no less than a home or farm—that the federal government could revoke only with the concurrence of independent judges.” Gorsuch wrote that patents differ from other revocable public franchises in that they provide “a procompetitive means to secure to individuals the fruits of their labor and ingenuity,” and were regarded for most of US history as subject to divestment “only through proceedings before independent judges.” Gorsuch further argued that permitting the executive branch to withdraw a patent would “deprive the applicant of his property without due process of law,” and concluded "Today’s decision may not represent a rout but it at least signals a retreat from Article III’s guarantees.”
   827. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 01:47 AM (#5660755)
That's the divide between principled actual liberal civil libertarians, and unprincipled, by-any-means-necessary TDSers. This "let's dispense with everything because Trump" attitude of the TDSers is quite dangerous (*) and as a personal matter, I'm somewhat proud that I've stayed true to high-quality principles that long predate Trump.

(*) And when it's conjoined with abuses of power by institutions like the FBI, even more dangerous.


Dershowitz commented on this over the weekend. And he too does not think that heaven is missing an angel because Robert Mueller walks among us.

Quoting:

Just as the first casualty of war is truth, so too, the first casualty of hyperpartisan politics is civil liberties. Many traditional civil libertarians have allowed their strong anti-Trump sentiments to erase their long-standing commitment to neutral civil liberties. They are so desperate to get President Trump that they are prepared to compromise the most basic due process rights. They forget the lesson of history that such compromises made against one’s enemies are often used as precedents against one’s friends.

...

Today, fair-weather civil libertarians are unwilling to give President Trump, who they regard as the devil, the “benefit of law” and civil liberties. Consider the issue of criticizing special counsel Robert Mueller. Any criticism or even skepticism regarding Mueller’s history is seen as motivated by a desire to help Trump.

...

Yet, no civil libertarian should place such great trust in government files, especially in light of Judge Wolf’s findings. They should join my call for an objective investigation by the Justice Department’s inspector general before they assure the public “without equivocation” that Mueller had absolutely “no involvement.”

But the “get Trump at any cost” partisans have rejected my call for an investigation, out of fear that it may turn up information that might tarnish the image of the special counsel who is investigating Trump. Instead they criticize those of us who point out that Mueller was “at the center” of the Justice Department and FBI when this miscarriage of justice occurred.

All civil libertarians should want the truth about this sordid episode — and Mueller’s possible role — regardless of its impact, if any, on the Trump investigation. Mueller, too, should welcome an objective investigation, which might eliminate any question about his role in this travesty. Yet, as I have written previously, for too many former civil libertarians the hope of getting Trump trumps civil liberties.


   828. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 01:54 AM (#5660757)
Deputy Mayor of Toulouse says future of Jews in Europe "hopeless"

While people have been obsessed with Trump's "fascism," the situation in Europe continues to deteriorate.


But you have to forgive the TDSers. Trump was supposed to be Hitler, but then Trump used his military to attack the president of Syria for acting like Hitler.

The cognitive dissonance remains strong on this one.
   829. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 01:58 AM (#5660759)
Worst.

Candidate.

Ever.


No. She lost the electoral college to that.


They could have spotted Trump 20 million illegal votes and she should have been able to beat him.
   830. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 02:05 AM (#5660762)
Worst.

Candidate.

Ever.


Who still would have made an infinitely better president than the racist clown you keep running interference for.


Facts not in evidence.

And thankfully, they never will be.
   831. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 02:12 AM (#5660763)

I mean, look, we know where Andy stands on the concept of law. He thinks it can be ignored en masse and is little more than politics by other means, with little to no rigor beyond that. He thinks that in part because of aging baby boomer cynicism and in part because he can't or won't get his fingernails dirty actually trying to follow along with things like the actual opinions, preferring instead the oh-so-objective intermediation of media outlets such as the New York Times and Washington Post.


Andy doesn't understand legal analysis. It's not a crime; it just is.

"Is Trump's travel ban constitutional?" is a legal issue that is not decided by going:

"Do I like Trump's travel ban? No! So it's unconstitutional."

That, and bean counting, is all Andy is capable of here.
   832. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 02:25 AM (#5660764)
At least get it right: I said that when the Court is split 5 to 4 on cases where one side is clearly liberal and the other clearly conservative, and I know what the case is about, I can nearly always say which Justices will vote which way. I don't claim I can do it every time, but I'm also not blind to history.


Huh? You're bragging about being able to do 2 + 2 = 4?

   833. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 02:30 AM (#5660765)
Hey, NYC peeps - anyone have experience with Air BnB in the city?


The government and activists here can often be found taking the immoral position that Air BnB is an illegal hotel.
   834. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 02:41 AM (#5660766)
Jim Comey: No Serious Person would prosecute me for leaking classified information.

Uh huh.
   835. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 26, 2018 at 04:27 AM (#5660767)
JE, #784:
You must have me confused with Gonfalon.


It's possible. Did you suddenly get funny and sexy?
   836. Jess Franco Posted: April 26, 2018 at 07:07 AM (#5660770)
But one must consider whether or not keeping a brain dead person on life support for days, weeks, months, years, is also torture. it's an unknowable question, but hardly irrelevant.

How does one consider a question that is unknowable?

In the tradition of Hippocrates, doctors take an oath to do no harm -- to not injure or kill a patient. There are myriad medical procedures that do produce harm and that cause injury, but with the aim of preventing death.

When the patient is rendered unconscious, it's assumed that he would consent to medical procedure if able to do so. Again, the presumption is made for life... though obviously this has been modified over the years with DNRs and living wills and now assisted suicide in some jurisdictions.

"Brain dead" is a contentious issue has brought forth in the New Yorker piece, as it was formulated to make it possible to harvest organs before a person still lives. Also, a lot of that determination is made by measuring brain waves, subject to the calibration of available instruments, and understanding. Scientifically, it seems like there must be some brain function for their to be body function.

The ethics involved are only going to become more complicated in time. There's enough to wrangle with concerning what is known.
   837. Jess Franco Posted: April 26, 2018 at 07:09 AM (#5660771)
This is also a nation with public health care. You're in favor of forcing the people of England (at gunpoint!) to keep paying for the brain-dead body of a child to be on a respirator when there is no hope of recovery.

Italy gave him citizenship and offered transport and care.
   838. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 07:18 AM (#5660772)
Juan is vehement in his defense of the brain dead. And why wouldn’t he be.
   839. McCoy Posted: April 26, 2018 at 07:21 AM (#5660773)
It's possible. Did you suddenly get funny and sexy?

Are you guys talking about me?
   840. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 07:25 AM (#5660774)
How does one consider a question that is unknowable?


Woah...

*puts down bong*
   841. BrianBrianson Posted: April 26, 2018 at 07:35 AM (#5660776)
Why is it so offensive for some folks here -- every single one pro-choice on abortion, right? -- to allow the parents to decide what's best for their living child?


Because they're choosing to torture the kid, duh. Overwhelmingly, parents choose what's best for their child, and we should try our best to let them do what they want. But it ain't right to let parents to abuse or neglect their kids. Kids get taken away from their parents every day - parents who don't feed/cloth/house their kids, parents who beat their kids, parents who molest their kids. It's unfortunate that there're parents like that, but there are, and ignoring it ain't right.
   842. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 07:44 AM (#5660779)
I wonder what the medical professionals involved have to say about the prognosis?

Ah who am I kidding, what do those eggheads know.

We already have a Fake Lawyer to offer ill-informed opinion on the law, who wants to step up to serve as our Fake Physician?
   843. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 07:57 AM (#5660781)
If a million people go without healthcare and lead miserable, brutish, short lives because of it that's the free market and thdy.e breaks.

But if universal healthcare pulls the plug on one tough case it's a world stopping event.
If I see some homeless people and I neglect to hit you over the head with a baseball bat and take your wallet to give to them, that's a tragedy. But if I smother just one baby with a pillow, and they call it a crime. Huh. Go figure.
   844. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:02 AM (#5660784)

Jesus Christ. It's like arguing with a 5 year old. You claim that cutting off the breathing is torture, and thus ought not be done. That's fine as far as it goes. But one must consider whether or not keeping a brain dead person on life support for days, weeks, months, years, is also torture. it's an unknowable question, but hardly irrelevant.
What's unknowable? If the baby is really brain dead, then by definition he can't be suffering.
   845. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:08 AM (#5660785)
JE, #784:
You must have me confused with Gonfalon.



It's possible. Did you suddenly get funny and sexy?


Some people find obsessions with human bodies in persistent vegetative states and thinly/poorly hidden love of snuff porn sexy.

Not me.

But I imagine some people.
   846. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:09 AM (#5660786)

This is also a nation with public health care. You're in favor of forcing the people of England (at gunpoint!) to keep paying for the brain-dead body of a child to be on a respirator when there is no hope of recovery.
Setting aside that you have just made the definitive argument against socialized medicine (so thank you!), you are factually wrong: others have offered to pay for keeping the baby alive; the government is refusing to allow that.
   847. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:14 AM (#5660787)

Dershowitz can't have a point, because David promised us that it was premature to talk about whether Cohen was being "pressured":
This must be the dumbest thing Ray has ever posted, and that's stiff competition.

Dershowitz, a Harvard law professor emeritus, told ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos on "This Week" Sunday that prosecutors could potentially be threatening Cohen with a long prison term if he fails to cooperate.

...

I don’t think we know enough," Dershowitz said
Look, Dershowitz said what I said! Rather than what Ray said! And yet for some reason Ray is quoting him as though he supported Ray!
   848. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:20 AM (#5660789)
At least get it right: I said that when the Court is split 5 to 4 on cases where one side is clearly liberal and the other clearly conservative, and I know what the case is about, I can nearly always say which Justices will vote which way. I don't claim I can do it every time, but I'm also not blind to history.

Huh? You're bragging about being able to do 2 + 2 = 4?


I'm not bragging, I'm just observing. I'm simply pointing out that people like you are in denial of the fact that 2 + 2 does = 4. Being able to predict how today's Republican (and Democratic) Supreme Court Justices** will vote in cases that are ideologically driven is about as hard as predicting that Matt Harvey won't make a hit the next time he comes to bat. You won't be right every time, but over the long run you'd make a small fortune if you bet that he won't.

** With the sole exception of Kennedy
   849. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:27 AM (#5660792)
Meanwhile, I offer this age-old story for amusement purposes only. Any link to Michael Cohen's predicament is purely coincidental, though I would like someone to ask Trump whether he'd advise Cohen to take the Fifth.

Trump blasts those who take the Fifth, but he used it 97 times on adultery questions

On Wednesday, Donald Trump criticized a particular group of people who invoked that right: former staff members of Hillary Clinton called on to testify about her setting up a private email server.

“So there are five of them taking the Fifth Amendment, like you see on the mob, right?” he said at another rally in Iowa, though it was three former Clinton staff members who pleaded the Fifth. “The mob takes the Fifth Amendment. If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”

That’s exactly the question Donald Trump was asked 26 years ago, in 1990 when he was in the midst of divorcing Marla Maples, according to the Huffington Post. During the divorce proceedings, which included five depositions, Trump pleaded the Fifth 97 times on approximately 100 questions related to marriage infidelity.


   850. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:28 AM (#5660793)
The Doctor is out...
   851. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:30 AM (#5660794)
Swamp status: Just fine

“We had a hierarchy in my office in Congress,” Mulvaney said at an American Bankers Association, according to the New York Times. “If you’re a lobbyist who never gave us money, I didn’t talk to you. If you’re a lobbyist who gave us money, I might talk to you.”
   852. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:34 AM (#5660797)
AZ-8 in all elections back to 2012

Race            (D)     (R)   Margin
2018 House 
(special)  47.4%  52.6%  5.2%
2016 President        37.0%  58.1%  21.1%
2016 House              ---  68.6%  
2014 Governor          33.6%  61.2%  27.6%
2014 AttyGeneral     39.4%  60.6%  21.2%
2014 Sec'y of State    41.0%  59.0%  17.9%
2014 Sup'
t PubInst.  43.9%  56.1%  12.3%
2014 House              ---  75.8%  
2012 Senate            38.9%  56.3%  17.4%
2012 President         36.9%  61.7%  24.8%
2012 House             35.1%  63.4%  28.3
   853. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:46 AM (#5660801)
Most Think Mueller Will Find Impeachable Offenses

A new Fox News poll finds that 56% think it’s likely that special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe will find President Trump committed criminal or impeachable offenses.

And even though 64% feel confident Mueller is treating the White House fairly, 71% think it’s likely Trump will fire Mueller before the investigation is complete.


But hey let's talk about the 2016 election! Quick!
   854. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:46 AM (#5660802)
#850:
The Doctor is out...


All sloppy benders have to end sometime.
   855. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:51 AM (#5660805)
Most Voters Have Seen No Boost from Tax Law

A new Politico/Morning Consult poll finds that 55% of voters say they haven’t noticed an increase in their paychecks as a result of the new tax law.


But at least our officials are targeted like lasers on what really matters! Christian Conservatives Fight Bid To Toughen Louisiana Anti-Bestiality Law

In Louisiana, a proposal to strengthen the law against bestiality is facing unexpected opposition from conservative lawmakers who see it as an underhanded move to strike the state’s unconstitutional ban on sodomy.

Creating a new, wide-ranging anti-bestiality law would untangle the offense from the ban on sodomy in Louisiana’s “crime against nature ” statute, prompting some lawmakers to label the measure a sly chess move.

“This bill was written because the far left wants to undermine our other laws that protect family and traditional values that the people of Louisiana hold dear,” said Sen. Ryan Gatti, a Republican who was one of 10 senators to vote against the bill.

“That was our concern, that it most likely will be used as a Trojan horse to delete the sodomy law,” he said.


A sodomy law, that again, is unconstitutional. WTF?

   856. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 08:54 AM (#5660808)
“That was our concern, that it most likely will be used as a Trojan horse to delete the sodomy law,” he said, as aides quickly ushered a strangely dressed sheep out the back door.
   857. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:04 AM (#5660814)
What's unknowable?


You don't wanna know...
   858. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:16 AM (#5660821)

Bye, bye, Ronny Jackson
Ronny L. Jackson, President Trump’s embattled nominee to lead the Department of Veterans Affairs, withdrew from consideration Thursday amid mushrooming allegations of professional misconduct that raised questions about the White House vetting process....

So Trump's attorney takes the Fifth and Trump's VA pick drinks a fifth. It almost seems a shame that he's leaving the scene.
   859. Jess Franco Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:18 AM (#5660824)
Because they're choosing to torture the kid, duh.

Keeping someone alive througb medical intervention is torture?

I recall a story on NPR of a guy nearly burned alive in an oil well explosion. Eyes melted right out of his skull. Barely alive, he told first responders to let him die.

Nope, off to the hospital for treatment, involving all means to treat burns covering 90 percent of his body. Pure torture, in his own words, which he asked the doctors to stop.

No dice. Recovered enough to leave the hospital. Still wishes they had let him expire.

So yeah, medical treatment can be torture. The questions become who receives treatments, how much, for how long, with what hope of recovery, etc. And with what level of consent.
   860. Jess Franco Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:20 AM (#5660825)
We already have a Fake Lawyer to offer ill-informed opinion on the law, who wants to step up to serve as our Fake Physician?


What's your level of expertise? Fart jokes?
   861. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5660833)
Consider the issue of criticizing special counsel Robert Mueller. Any criticism or even skepticism regarding Mueller’s history is seen as motivated by a desire to help Trump.
That's because it is, you dishonest ####. Show me the many columns you wrote before 2017 discussing this issue wrt Mueller. None, as far as I can tell. Dershowitz wrote about the Bulgers many times over the years, but the first time he tried to smear Mueller with it was after Mueller became special counsel.


In an example of Dershowitz's dishonesty, he writes:
Mueller was an assistant U.S. attorney in Boston, the head of its criminal division, then head of the criminal division at the main Justice Department and the FBI director during the most scandalous miscarriage of justice in the FBI’s modern history. Four people were framed by the FBI in order to protect murderous gangsters working as FBI informers. An FBI agent, who is now in prison, was tipping off crime boss Whitey Bulger as to who might testify against him so that those individuals could be killed.
But Mueller was not "assistant U.S. attorney in Boston," or "the head of its criminal division" or "head of the criminal division at the main Justice Department" or "FBI director" when "Four people were framed by the FBI." Mueller was in college when that happened. And the judge who presided over the later lawsuit proving that they had been framed has said that Mueller had no involvement at any point.

But the “get Trump at any cost” partisans have rejected my call for an investigation, out of fear that it may turn up information that might a. Instead they criticize those of us who point out that Mueller was “at the center” of the Justice Department and FBI when this miscarriage of justice occurred.
Given that the only reason Dershowitz is calling for an "investigation" of something that happened 30 years ago that was super-extensively investigated many times is to try to "tarnish the image of the special counsel who is investigating Trump," this is pretty rich.
   862. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:28 AM (#5660837)
Whiny Farmers!

Flash forward to 2016, when 67 percent of farmers voted for Trump. Farmers were no doubt drawn to his deregulatory message and motivated by their perception that any Obama-era economic recovery had left them behind. In all regions, farmers are overwhelmingly Republican voters, regardless of the size of the operation.

But after months of controversy over farm labor visas, falling commodity prices and withdrawal from free-trade agreements, a recent survey conducted by Agri-Pulse, one of America’s leading agricultural news sources, adds weight to Grassley’s warning. The survey — conducted from Feb. 26 through March 9, before the most recent tariff battles — indicates that farmers are losing patience with the president. Although 67 percent said they had voted for Trump, only 45 percent said they would support his re-election.
   863. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:29 AM (#5660838)

Swamp status: Just fine

“We had a hierarchy in my office in Congress,” Mulvaney said at an American Bankers Association, according to the New York Times. “If you’re a lobbyist who never gave us money, I didn’t talk to you. If you’re a lobbyist who gave us money, I might talk to you.”
You kinda dishonestly left out the rest of his sentence, which was that if you were a constituent of his, he always talked to you.
   864. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5660841)

Most Think Mueller Will Find Impeachable Offenses

But hey let's talk about the 2016 election! Quick!
Well, at least the 2016 is potentially factual. Why would anyone on the planet care what anyone thinks Mueller will find? This is like complaining that more people are interested in discussing Galileo than a survey of what people think NASA's Mars rover will find on Mars. It's hard to think of something less newsworthy than a poll of what ignorant people predict will happen.
   865. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5660842)
You kinda dishonestly left out the rest of his sentence, which was that if you were a constituent of his, he always talked to you.


Yeah, but he said he'd talk to constituents to ask for money, so I figured it kind of cancelled out.
   866. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5660852)
Why would anyone on the planet care what anyone thinks Mueller will find?


Are you kidding? Wow. OK, I'll explain it for you.

Much of politics is perception, feelings, and expectations. If - before the report comes out - people are already primed to accept the report as true, already largely believing something impeachable will be found that is much different than a world where people start off thinking it is all a witch-hunt, that Mueller is grandstanding and should be fired ASAP.

Since impeachment is a political question - as we have discussed here many times - the politics of the situation matter. And, as I said above, how ready or not people are to accept Mueller and his investigation matters a great deal to the politics of the situation.

Now, I agree, from a strictly factual standpoint - what Mueller uncovers and the seriousness of it - polling of opinions is meaningless, but there is more to the situation than just facts. Something you clearly understand, just look at the posts you just wrote about smearing the investigation. This poll suggests that those very smears you were decrying are not widely taking hold.
   867. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5660854)
Trump guest-starred on his favorite TV show!

In between waving to himself and the two dicks and a blonde telling him to please turn down his TV because of the delay/feedback issues, it went REAL well!

2. The President said Michael Cohen is mainly a businessman and only secondarily a lawyer. That at least undercuts his privilege argument. He says what prosecutors are looking at only has to do with Cohen’s personal business dealings, not with his representation of Donald Trump. He also said that he knows nothing about Cohen’s private business dealings. (“I don’t know his business… They’re looking at something having to do with his business. I have nothing to do with his business.”) That’s almost certainly false.


Oh, and he also said the next VA nominee with be "great". F&F didn't follow-up with the obvious "as great as the one who just withdrew?"
   868. Jay Z Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5660870)
  825. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 01:38 AM (#5660753)
[ Ignored Comment ]
   826. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 01:40 AM (#5660754)
[ Ignored Comment ]
   827. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 01:47 AM (#5660755)
[ Ignored Comment ]
   828. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 01:54 AM (#5660757)
[ Ignored Comment ]
   829. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 01:58 AM (#5660759)
[ Ignored Comment ]
   830. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 02:05 AM (#5660762)
[ Ignored Comment ]
   831. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 02:12 AM (#5660763)
[ Ignored Comment ]
   832. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 02:25 AM (#5660764)
[ Ignored Comment ]
   833. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 02:30 AM (#5660765)
[ Ignored Comment ]
   834. Ray (CTL) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 02:41 AM (#5660766)
[ Ignored Comment ]


Perhaps the software on this site could prevent the same person from making 10 consecutive responses to the same thread.
   869. -- Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5660873)
Bret Stephens column in Times:

George H.W. Bush once vomited on the prime minister of Japan. It was a mortifying but innocent incident, the result of a nasty stomach bug. Donald Trump has spent the last couple of days effectively doing likewise on France’s Emmanuel Macron.

What’s Trump’s excuse?

The contrast between the 41st and 45th presidents comes to mind this week as millions of Americans mourn the passing of Barbara Bush and pray for the health of her bereaved husband. It’s a study in American decline.


I'd of course move the date back about a decade because that's when the underlying causes really got going, but yeah -- the idea that we haven't declined since the fall of the Berlin Wall is kind of indefensible.
   870. McCoy Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:58 AM (#5660877)
Man, I'd be Warren Buffett if this was the 70's!
   871. BDC Posted: April 26, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5660881)
I have to say that trying to read about the Alfie Evans case is a study in how frustrating contemporary reporting has become. There are myriad stories about some little slice of something that happened on a given day, lots of he-said/she-said reaction quotes, but very little comprehensive narrative or exposition.

Among other things I can't figure out where the case falls along the public/private line. People are saying that the "government" is making rulings, but the central dispute seems to be between the parents and the doctors. It's not clear to me if the doctors are government employees, but in any case their professional opinions must be somewhat separate from government policy.

Courts have ruled in the dispute, but those are not exactly "government" decisions, especially not in the British sense where the "government" is the Westminster cabinet. IOW a court ruling in a dispute between two parties is different from a ministerial regulation.

It's also not clear why he couldn't be moved. It seems that the issue there has to do with providing continuous life support, which the physicians have given up on doing because they consider him effectively dead. And physicians will do that even with privately insured patients in America, of course. They may be gentle about it, but they'll tell you: we cannot treat this patient, they're breathing on a ventilator but they're gone. Staying on life support forever is not an option anywhere, under any medical system.

But I could be totally wrong because the stories, even in the British press, are so uninformative. Making it easy to produce white-hot opinions, but hard to know the realities of the situation.
   872. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5660886)
The government and activists here can often be found taking the immoral position that Air BnB is an illegal hotel.


Immoral?

There is a valid discussion to be had regarding Hotel versus site that is constantly let out on AirBNB, just as there is around the discussion around Taxis versus Uber/Lyft.

It can be discussed sensibly what level of regulation is appropriate in those instances, and honestly I think the discussion reveals instances of over regulation (and some spots where Uber/Lyft and AirBNB should be regulated. But in any case I don't think it is particularly either moral or immoral. Obviously those who think taxes are stealing their life take a different view.

Speaking of regulation, I don't recall if this was posted.

The Libertarian Who Accidentally Helped Make the Case for Regulation

That’s why a study he co-published earlier this year is so noteworthy. When Tabarrok and his former grad student Nathan Goldschlag set out to measure how federal regulations impact business growth, they were sure they’d find proof that regulations were dragging down the economy. But they didn’t. No matter how they sliced the data, they could find no evidence that federal regulation was bad for business.

Economists—like politicians, arguing spouses, and, yes, journalists—tend to interpret evidence in a way that corroborates their existing worldview. And the dynamics of academia weigh against publishing findings that fail to support a researcher’s original hypothesis. But Tabarrok published his study anyway. That makes him something of a rarity.
   873. -- Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:03 AM (#5660887)
There's no indication Mueller is going to "find" anything remotely "impeachable." The only retort to that are banalities like "You don't know what he has," and "he's not done yet," and "Michael Flynn lied to the FBI, why?"
   874. -- Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5660889)
Making it easy to produce white-hot opinions, but hard to know the realities of the situation.


This is the entire point behind much of contemporary "reporting."
   875. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5660891)
But I could be totally wrong because the stories, even in the British press, are so uninformative. Making it easy to produce white-hot opinions, but hard to know the realities of the situation.


Serious question - perhaps you can't answer based on above - why should I care about this case? I thought about asking earlier, but before I could both sides were engaged in war and I am sure my question would have been greeted with "Don't you care about freedom!" and such nonsense.

Other than it is in the NEWS! what is especially interesting about the case?
   876. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:10 AM (#5660895)
You can always tell when stretchy is desperate, he begins semi-randomly scare-quoting words. Excuse me, let me try again.

You can always "tell" when stretchy is "desperate", he begins semi-randomly scare-quoting "words".
   877. greenback took the 110 until the 105 Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:23 AM (#5660906)
Other than it is in the NEWS! what is especially interesting about the case?

The government is attempting to override the parents' decision regarding the treatment of their child. Doctors employed by the NHS had to take the matter to court to do so. The legal basis for this claim is the Children's Act of 1989, which says the welfare of the child is paramount in such cases. Generally the Children's Act seems to come into the news because the government wants to give children of Jehovah's Witnesses blood transfusions, but in this case the government doctors are essentially saying the parents are torturing their child by keeping him alive.
   878. McCoy Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:25 AM (#5660908)
Immoral?

There is a valid discussion to be had regarding Hotel versus site that is constantly let out on AirBNB, just as there is around the discussion around Taxis versus Uber/Lyft.

It can be discussed sensibly what level of regulation is appropriate in those instances, and honestly I think the discussion reveals instances of over regulation (and some spots where Uber/Lyft and AirBNB should be regulated. But in any case I don't think it is particularly either moral or immoral. Obviously those who think taxes are stealing their life take a different view.

Speaking of regulation, I don't recall if this was posted.


AirBnB should certainly face the same regulations, taxation, codes, and laws that hotels/motels do. I'm not against non-conventional rental rooms but the whole system is setup to take advantage of what has already been built up and currently exists. You can't on one hand demand safety, cleanliness, equality, and all that and then toss all that out because somebody is offering to rent you a room for 50% the cost of a place that has to comply with all that you demand.

Make it a free market in which all have to comply with all of the rules and regs and what we'll get is prices coming down overall for all rentable rooms.
   879. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5660911)
AirBnB should certainly face the same regulations, taxation, codes, and laws that hotels/motels do. I'm not against non-conventional rental rooms but the whole system is setup to take advantage of what has already been built up and currently exists. You can't on one hand demand safety, cleanliness, equality, and all that and then toss all that out because somebody is offering to rent you a room for 50% the cost of a place that has to comply with all that you demand.


Setting aside the rest - I certainly agree on the taxation angle. I do think AirBnB (same goes for Uber/Lyft i/r/t taxis/car services/etc) should be subject to the same taxation as their commercial peers.
   880. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5660912)
The government is attempting to override the parents' decision regarding the treatment of their child.


Governments do that a fair amount to one degree or another. There are laws about corporal discipline, education, vaccination and on and on and on. Children are - to a large degree - helpless and so society (governments) act as the a "watchman" over parents making sure the parents is acting within the bounds of society.

So are we challenging that basic fact, that governments have that role, are we arguing about where the line is or should be, or are we arguing about this specific case because is is sensational? Or is this really more about the philosophical question around when someone is truly dead?
   881. Jess Franco Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5660913)
...physicians have given up on doing because they consider him effectively dead. And physicians will do that even with privately insured patients in America, of course. They may be gentle about it, but they'll tell you: we cannot treat this patient, they're breathing on a ventilator but they're gone. Staying on life support forever is not an option anywhere, under any medical system.

I'm not following that closely because of the reasons you state, but it's my understanding they took him off the ventilator, he didn't die as they predicted, so they put him back on the ventilator and other minimal intervention.

Seems effectively dead is largely a tautology that means no linger worthy of treatment, even minimal life support (ventilator, hydradtion, food). Why is such life support forever (read: dead regardless) not an option now? What is the cost of keeping this child alive? Of keeping anyone unable to csre for themselves alive?

Doctors have a certain expertise, but not without conflict of interest, if simply having to ration care.

My main point in discussing this issue is that it seems a contemporary problem with big ramifications for future democratic societies.
   882. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5660918)
AirBnB should certainly face the same regulations, taxation, codes, and laws that hotels/motels do. I'm not against non-conventional rental rooms but the whole system is setup to take advantage of what has already been built up and currently exists. You can't on one hand demand safety, cleanliness, equality, and all that and then toss all that out because somebody is offering to rent you a room for 50% the cost of a place that has to comply with all that you demand.


In your opinion there is no difference between running a hotel and renting out your home for a few days a year? Because they feel different to me. It also feels different renting out your home a few days a year and having a property in (for example) Orlando which one rents our all year every year, making the property a commercial property. And when is that line crossed?

I think there is plenty of room for discussion, I just don't think it is a discussion of morality.
   883. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5660920)
You kinda dishonestly left out the rest of his sentence, which was that if you were a constituent of his, he always talked to you.


He linked to the complete statement so that should suffice. Just ask JE.
   884. greenback took the 110 until the 105 Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:39 AM (#5660925)
So are we challenging that basic fact, that governments have that role, are we arguing about where the line is or should be, or are we arguing about this specific case because is is sensational?

Yes.

OK, that's glib, but it's also the best answer. There is an additional aspect, that the government is more involved in this decision in the UK than they would be in the US, since the doctors are government employees. Presumably private doctors would not be suing for the right to terminate a child's life. That (deliberately) obscures the fact that the child does have a social worker assigned to his case, who should be serving a kind of CPS role.
   885. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5660935)
. If you link to a headline which is misleading, you bear responsibility for it.

Not sure who posted this, but only dumbasses can be misled by headlines or titles, because headlines those aren't actual facts or arguments. It's literally Homer Simpson-esque; he once expressed disappointment that To Kill a Mockingbird gave him no information on killing mockingbirds.
   886. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5660938)
OK, that's glib, but it's also the best answer.


But that also leads to arguments that zoom past each other. Anyway there are two factors that make this kind of a non-story.

First of all brain dead is (IMO) dead. I am not emotionally invested in disposing of dead people (even heart-wrenching dead children). Secondly where children are involved emotions run high on all sides, and so I am inclined to suspect that the parties not emotionally invested - courts, medical professionals - are going to be in general making much better decisions than the emotionally invested parties.

Obviously it is a big world filled with plenty of instances of malpractice on all sides, but my starting position is the courts are much more likely correct than the parents. I have not seen anything that has moved me off my default position yet, but I am open.
   887. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:49 AM (#5660940)
Joe Manchin is at it again in West Virginia!

Ex-Con Coal Baron Running for WV Senate Calls NYT ‘Communist Propaganda’

This on the heels of him yesterday taking issues Mitch McConnell's wife being the daughter of a chinaperson.

How much longer does the GOP have to suffer through Joe Manchin forcing Don Blankenship to use rhetoric and tactics that tickles the GOP base sweet spot?
   888. McCoy Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5660941)
In your opinion there is no difference between running a hotel and renting out your home for a few days a year? Because they feel different to me. It also feels different renting out your home a few days a year and having a property in (for example) Orlando which one rents our all year every year, making the property a commercial property. And when is that line crossed?

I think there is plenty of room for discussion, I just don't think it is a discussion of morality.


I think it feels different because before the technology existed it was rather small potatoes. But now that the technology exists it isn't really some schlub renting out a room occasionally. You have people buying up units, homes, and buildings so that they can be used as rental investments and currently they have little oversight whereas if you want to rent an apartment in the conventional manner or operate a hotel there is plenty of oversight and taxation involved.
   889. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5660950)
867

The President said Michael Cohen is mainly a businessman and only secondarily a lawyer. That at least undercuts his privilege argument.


IANAL, but I really don't think this is true.
   890. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 10:59 AM (#5660952)
In other Mueller news -

Chuck Grassley has removed the provision that Democrats objected to in the Mueller Protection bill and it sounds like the bill is now going to advance out of the Judiciary committee... likely setting up a showdown with the turtle fellow.
   891. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5660956)
IANAL, but I really don't think this is true.


I'm sure Trump's statements don't clear-cut remove it, but "undercut" seems fair.

How many times has Trump's mouth got him in trouble in various other legal proceedings over the past year, both in government matters and his own civil matters?

   892. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5660958)
873

The only retort to that are banalities like "You don't know what he has," and "he's not done yet," and "Michael Flynn lied to the FBI, why?"


You say banalities, I say it's what's so. Po-TAY-to, po-TAH-to.

Your scare quote machine is in overdrive this morning, Bear.

   893. McCoy Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5660959)
IANAL, but I really don't think this is true.

Hey, I'm not a lawyer as well but it is possible that Trump could dig himself a big enough hole where he states that Cohen wasn't his lawyer but was his business partner/associate in which case their "business dealings" wouldn't be protected though I'm pretty darn sure that their legal dealings would still be protected provided they weren't breaking the law.
   894. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5660964)
"I" don't "think" you "people" are "being" "very" "nice" to "SBB".
   895. -- Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5660967)
In other Mueller news -

Chuck Grassley has removed the provision that Democrats objected to in the Mueller Protection bill and it sounds like the bill is now going to advance out of the Judiciary committee... likely setting up a showdown with the turtle fellow.


There's not going to be any showdown, but people should realize that the President's constitutional authority over inferior Executive Branch personnel virtually certainly overrides either this bill or the DOJ regulations relating to special counsels. Under Article II, the executive power is vested in the President. Inferior officers are merely his agents in helping him or her carry out the vested power.
   896. -- Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5660970)
Hey, I'm not a lawyer as well but it is possible that Trump could dig himself a big enough hole where he states that Cohen wasn't his lawyer but was his business partner/associate in which case their "business dealings" wouldn't be protected though I'm pretty darn sure that their legal dealings would still be protected provided they weren't breaking the law.


The only things protected would be Trump's communications seeking legal advice. Those would be protected even if Cohen had all manner of side businesses beyond his law practice.
   897. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5660979)
"I" don't "think" you "people" are "being" "very" "nice" to "SBB".

Obligitory
   898. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5660984)
Those would be protected even if Cohen had all manner of side businesses beyond his law practice.


Don't you mean side law practice?

Because near as I can recollect, his "law practice" seems to start and stop with paying off mistresses of millionaires... oh, and chit-chatting with Sean Hannity.

I know boutique firms with highly specialized practices exist, but I suspect paying off women is a niche too far.
   899. DavidFoss Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:18 AM (#5660992)
There's not going to be any showdown

I actually agree with Cardi B here. If McConnell is needed to bring it to the floor, it won't go to the floor. He won't think twice about it and he won't listen to any pushback. The committee stuff is just for show -- to say that they tried.
   900. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5660996)
891

I'm sure Trump's statements don't clear-cut remove it, but "undercut" seems fair.

How many times has Trump's mouth got him in trouble in various other legal proceedings over the past year, both in government matters and his own civil matters?


Well, I agree with you there, but privilege is privilege, isn't it? If Cohen is acting in his capacity as DJT's lawyer and not just as a businessman -- whatever the hell that means -- doesn't privilege apply over all? (I mean, yeah, apart from the third party/L&O kind of stuff.)
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