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Monday, August 13, 2018

OTP 2018 August 13: ‘Don’t confuse sports with politics,’ Kosovo tells Bosnia

Kosovo’s team was scheduled to play against the Bosnia and Herzegovina side on Thursday, the first day of the tournament which runs until August 16.

However the Kosovo Basketball Federation (FBK) told local media that by late Wednesday it still had not received an answer from Bosnia’s nearest embassy in Skopje, the capital of Macedonia, about the status of the team’s visa applications.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 13, 2018 at 08:31 AM | 1897 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: politics

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   1801. Random Transaction Generator Posted: August 19, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5729974)
flop
   1802. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 19, 2018 at 09:53 PM (#5729976)
@wgladstone
I've decided to appease centrists. Instead of punching nazis, we'll murder them by drone with no due process.
   1803. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5729978)
Or, as Julian Sanchez put it, in responding to Donald Trump tweeting about the same quote
LMFAO. Would these be the sources the FBI never identified, let alone vetted?

And blokes like Sanchez sure looked like buffoons when they freaked out over Stefan Halper being named.
   1804. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5729979)
Clapper: Brennan's rhetoric is becoming an issue:

Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said Sunday that he thinks former CIA Director John Brennan's rhetoric is becoming an issue "in and of itself."

"John and his rhetoric have become an issue in and of itself," Clapper said on CNN's "State of the Union." "John is subtle like a freight train and he’s gonna say what’s on his mind."

Clapper's comments came in response to an op-ed penned by Brennan in The New York Times this week, in which he wrote that President Trump colluded with Russia during the 2016 election.

Clapper said he empathized with Brennan, but voiced concerns for Brennan's fiery rhetoric toward Trump and his administration.

"I think that the common denominator among all of us [in the intelligence community] that have been speaking up … is genuine concern about the jeopardy and threats to our institutions," Clapper said.

Brennan's claims drew criticism from some in the intelligence community who said the timing was suspect.


When even (the other) Clapper's telling Brennan to STFU, Andy...

Since you're quoting James Clapper's opinion about the usefulness---not the truth---of Brennan's rhetoric, let's see what some other intelligence officials have to say about your hero's revocation of Brennan's security clearance:

Michael Hayden:
Former CIA and National Security Agency Director Michael Hayden said Sunday that he'd be fine with having his security clearance revoked, as President Donald Trump threatened to do to him and other former intelligence officials who have been critical of the President.

Hayden made the comment on CNN's "State of the Union" when asked about a recent op-ed from retired Adm. William McRaven, who oversaw the 2011 Navy SEAL raid that killed Osama bin Laden. In his piece, McRaven issued a stunning rebuke of Trump's decision to revoke the security clearance of former CIA Director John Brennan, whom the former naval officer called "a man of unparalleled integrity." He added that he "would consider it an honor" if Trump also took away his clearance "so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency."

Asked by CNN's Jake Tapper if he too would be honored to lose his security clearance, Hayden said, "Well, to be included in that group? Sure."

"And frankly, if his not revoking my clearance gave the impression that I somehow moved my commentary in a direction more acceptable to the White House, I would find that very disappointing and frankly unacceptable," Hayden, a frequent critic of Trump, added.

Hayden, who served as NSA director mostly during President George W. Bush's tenure, as well as for a time during President Bill Clinton's second term, and as CIA director under both Bush and President Barack Obama, emphasized that McRaven's op-ed made "a larger, broader comment on why he's upset with the administration."

Over a dozen former intelligence officials:
Over a dozen former senior intelligence officials -- a group that includes officials who served under both Democratic and Republican presidents -- are denouncing President Donald Trump's decision to revoke former CIA Director John Brennan's security clearance as "ill-considered" and "unprecedented."

With the exception of Brennan -- and excluding those who served under Trump -- every CIA director since George Tenet, who took over the agency in 1996, signed the letter.

"We all agree that the president's action regarding John Brennan and the threats of similar action against other former officials has nothing to do with who should and should not hold security clearances -- and everything to do with an attempt to stifle free speech," the former senior intelligence officials, including former CIA directors, former CIA deputy directors, and a former director of national intelligence, said in a statement released Thursday.

They went on to argue, "We have never before seen the approval or removal of security clearances used as a political tool, as was done in this case."

"Beyond that, this action is quite clearly a signal to other former and current officials," the former officials said, adding that the signal "is inappropriate and deeply regrettable."

The list originally included 12 officials, but overnight, former CIA director and Defense Secretary Robert Gates added himself to the list. Former Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair and former Deputy CIA Director Bert Calland also signed onto the statement Friday.

One of the signees, former director of the CIA and NSA Michael Hayden told CNN's John Berman Friday on "New Day" that making the decision to sign the statement was not difficult.

"Using the security clearance process to punish a political opponent was simply inappropriate even though we admit that the president has absolute authority in this area," Hayden said. "It's just a bad thing to do for the health of the American republic and the health of American debate."

The former intelligence leaders added in their statement that "decisions on security clearances should be based on national security concerns and not political views."

They also defended Brennan's character and called allegations against Brennan of wrongdoing "baseless."
...

Emphasis added.

Somehow I think I'd put these former officials' credibility up against anyone who's on Trump's payroll, or anyone who's still remaining in Trump's BTF peanut gallery.
   1805. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5729981)
And what if it turns out that much of Steele's dossier info came, not from Moscow, but DC-based, former Russian intel officer Rinat Akhmetshin?
In a bombshell report released by The Hill last week, reporter John Solomon revealed that top Department of Justice official Bruce Ohr took detailed notes from a meeting with Fusion GPS’s Glenn Simpson, and those notes contained a very interesting section. ...

It later adds, “A couple of the experts flagged that most of what Simpson allegedly told Ohr was not from Moscow—where the alleged plot was supposed to be based—but from a reported Russian in the United States who later seemed to disappear, according to Ohr’s notes.”

Note the language used there. “Much of the collection about the Trump campaign ties to Russia….”

Not “Some of…” or “A little bit of….” “Much of….” So, whoever this currently anonymous former Russian intelligence officer is, it’s clear he would figure very prominently in any attempts to verify the dossier’s information. ...

It’s almost as if there was an attempt to publicize the Trump Tower meeting and spin it as if actual collusion had taken place between the Trump campaign team and the Russian government while leaving Akhmetshin’s name out of it.

The reason why those who leaked the news of this Trump Tower meeting would want to keep Akhmetshin under wraps becomes crystal clear if he turns out to be the main source for the Trump/Russia collusion allegations in Christopher Steele’s dossier.

This is because, like Steele, both Akhmetshin and Veselnitskaya were affiliated with Fusion GPS. The Russian firm that was Veselnitskaya’s client had actually hired Fusion GPS to help her lobby against the Magnitsky Act. In fact, despite all the intense media attention this Trump Tower meeting received beginning in July 2017, it wasn’t revealed until last November that Fusion GPS’s Glenn Simpson had met with Veselnitskaya both before and then immediately after the Trump Tower meeting took place.

This along with the bombshell of Ohr’s notes brings up the $56,000 question: Were the Russians at this meeting there as Putin government operatives OR were they actually there as Fusion GPS operatives working on behalf of Hillary Clinton campaign & the DNC trying to entrap the Trump team by lying to them and misrepresenting themselves?
   1806. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5729983)
The Epoch Times?
   1807. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5729984)
Somehow I think I'd put these former officials' credibility up against anyone who's on Trump's payroll, or anyone who's still remaining in Trump's BTF peanut gallery.
Other than McRaven, how many of these folks have praised Brennan's integrity? Pretty much everything in the excerpts has to do with Trump having the right to revoke the security clearance but being a meanie in doing so.

And let's see how important those 60 or so names are if and when a jury decides Brennan's fate.
   1808. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5729985)
If nothing else's, JE's a constant source of new and obscure right wing websites and writers, and they're getting curiouser and curiouser with every new link he provides.

In his latest installment of The World According to Trump, #1805 just introduced us to "Epoch Times" and Brian Cates. Priceless.
   1809. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:22 PM (#5729986)
Somehow I think I'd put these former officials' credibility up against anyone who's on Trump's payroll, or anyone who's still remaining in Trump's BTF peanut gallery.

Other than McRaven, how many of these folks have praised Brennan's integrity?


Like Joe West, maybe we should provide you with a menu in braille. Once again, here's the last sentence from the story I quoted and linked to in #1804 about the statement of the dozen+ intelligence officials:
They also defended Brennan's character and called allegations against Brennan of wrongdoing "baseless." ...
   1810. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5729988)
If nothing else's, JE's a constant source of new and obscure right wing websites and writers, and they're getting curiouser and curiouser with every new link he provides.

In his latest installment of The World According to Trump, #1805 just introduced us to "Epoch Times" and Brian Cates. Priceless.
If you've got substantive responses to anything I've posted, Andy, feel free. In the meantime, I'll continue linking to journalists and analysts not on the Fusion GPS payroll.
   1811. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:33 PM (#5729989)
Or, as Julian Sanchez put it, in responding to Donald Trump tweeting about the same quote

“They” meaning *confidential sources in Russia whose life might be endangered* you feckless buffoon. Non-sociopaths are sometimes concerned about the welfare of others; ask one if you know any.


LMFAO


This is Juannity's response to the notion that people might be horrifically murdered. Uproarious. Laughter.

Dude is completely beyond hope. There is no point in trying to engage someone like that at all. Nothing is going to penetrate his preconceived notions. Time to accept that, ignore him, and move on.
   1812. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5729990)
I'll continue linking to journalists and analysts not on the Fusion GPS payroll.


Like The Epoch Times?
   1813. tshipman Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:38 PM (#5729991)
And let's see how important those 60 or so names are if and when a jury decides Brennan's fate.


What possible crime would he be charged with?
   1814. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5729992)
Like Joe West, maybe we should provide you with a menu in braille. Once again, here's the last sentence from the story I quoted and linked to in #1804 about the statement of the dozen+ intelligence officials:
Pathetic. What letter will they post at his arraignment?
   1815. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5729993)
What possible crime would he be charged with?
Ask James Wolfe.
   1816. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5729996)
This is Juannity's response to the notion that people might be horrifically murdered. Uproarious. Laughter.
Wow, your mascara runs whenever you try to seem sincere.

And as a reminder, four Americans were indeed murdered in Benghazi and folks like you mocked the #### out of the families of the dead who sought answers.
   1817. tshipman Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5729997)
hahahahaha, Epoch Times is a bunch of Falun Gong people.

lolololololol
   1818. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5730001)
hahahahaha, Epoch Times is a bunch of Falun Gong people.

lolololololol
When folks here can't substantively refute the claims, they resort to attacking the publisher -- which just happens to be a peaceful group opposed to the repressive government in Beijing. Shipman must be proud of himself.
   1819. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5730002)
   1820. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:51 PM (#5730003)
Wow, your mascara runs whenever you try to seem sincere.

And as a reminder, four Americans were indeed murdered in Benghazi and folks like you mocked the #### out of the families of the dead who sought answers.

I certainly never did. I may have mocked the people that gave them a spotlight, and tried to exploit their grief for political gain...in other words, people like you. Mocking the actual families of victims is beyond pathetic. Exploiting them is much worse.

But you on the other hand, are about one step away from joining the Alex Jones disciples, and running up to the parents of Sandy Hook kids, and screaming in their faces about how their kids never existed, and bombarding them with death threats.
   1821. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:52 PM (#5730004)
If Juannity lights himself on fire to protest the With Hunt™, I promise to feel bad.
   1822. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:53 PM (#5730005)
When folks here can't substantively refute the claims, they resort to attacking the publisher

Pot. Kettle.

All you do here is attack people and try to assassinate their character. Even if your attempts are usually as lame 'looool you are from the UK loser.'
   1823. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:53 PM (#5730006)
If you've got substantive responses to anything I've posted, Andy, feel free. In the meantime, I'll continue linking to journalists and analysts not on the Fusion GPS payroll

Oh, I'm sure you will. I'm sure there are many hundreds of other "Epoch Times"-like websites you've got in your arsenal, to share with us for our amusement. Keep 'em coming!

   1824. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:55 PM (#5730007)
Al Sharpton: "In the words of my late friend Aretha Franklin, show some R-E-S-P-I-C-T." Say what?

I guess the fate of our country is probably doomed to come down to a spelling contest between Donald Trump and Al Sharpton. This never could have happened back in 1979.
   1825. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5730009)
BTW, Andy, I just re-read the statement of the 60. *Nowhere* does it defend Brennan. Heck, the text seems to go out of its way not to say anything about his professional conduct.
   1826. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:57 PM (#5730010)
Oh, I'm sure you will. I'm sure there are many hundreds of other "Epoch Times"-like websites you've got in your arsenal, to share with us for our amusement. Keep 'em coming!
Concession accepted. We're at the point where all but a handful of your comments feature nothing but deflection.
   1827. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:59 PM (#5730011)
Even if your attempts are usually as lame 'looool you are from the UK loser.'
In fairness, you are a substance-free, UK-based loser.

EDIT: LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
   1828. Lassus Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:02 PM (#5730013)
1805. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5729981)

And what if
What JE's been reduced to.
   1829. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:07 PM (#5730015)
What JE's been reduced to.
Did you bother to read past those three words? No? Oh.
   1830. tshipman Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:09 PM (#5730016)
Did you bother to read past those three words? No? Oh.


I dunno, did you find an article from the LaRouche Times that we need to read?
Or the Sovereign Citizen Gazette?
The Anti-Vaxx Post-Intelligencer?
   1831. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:12 PM (#5730017)

it is an extremely fine parsing to say 'well it's not the person they are objecting to, it's the SPECIFIC ACT of marriage. It's a crock. What OTHER specific sinful acts do they refuse? Has anyone ever refused to make a "divorce" cake? What about a "I lost my virginity before marriage cake"?
Well, if you had bothered to learn the facts before deciding you don't believe him, yes, there are other specific acts he refuses to make cakes for. The most prominent is Halloween, which he has religious problems with. But there are others; from the briefing in the Supreme Court case:
For example, Phillips will not design cakes that celebrate Halloween; express anti-family themes (such as a cake glorifying divorce); contain hateful, vulgar, or profane messages (such as a cake disparaging gays and lesbians); or promote atheism, racism, or indecency.
According to Phillips, he was once asked to make a divorce cake, and refused. He also won't make cakes with alcohol for religious reasons.
   1832. Chicago Joe Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5730018)
Something we can all agree on: Helga Zepp-Larouche is one of the least attractive people in history.
   1833. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:17 PM (#5730019)

Misdirection. You don't care if the customer can't purchase the service at all. You support Jim Crow in theory and practice.
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
   1834. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:18 PM (#5730020)
I dunno, did you find an article from the LaRouche Times that we need to read?
Thanks for reminding us the latest DNC talking points have yet to appear in your inbox.
   1835. Stormy JE Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:21 PM (#5730021)
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
Wow indeed. "You support Jim Crow...?!?"
   1836. Chicago Joe Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:23 PM (#5730022)
So maybe phillips is a hardcore goofball?
   1837. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:24 PM (#5730023)
A little late, but - Rep. Jim Himes: Top 3 Democratic Leaders In Late 70s Is A Problem:
The chairman of the centrist New Democrat Coalition wouldn’t say Friday whether he would back Nancy Pelosi for House Democratic leader but he did vocalize an issue with the current leadership team. “The fact that our top three leaders are in their late 70s — I don’t care who those leaders are — that is in fact a problem,” Connecticut Rep. Jim Himes told CNN.

Pelosi, 78, has said she plans to run for speaker again if Democrats win the majority in November. House Minority Whip Steny H. Hoyer, 79, and Assistant Democratic Leader James E. Clyburn, 78, are interested in running for speaker should Pelosi fail to get the votes.

Some noted the problem much earlier.
   1838. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5730025)

The gay couple went to the bakery and ordered a wedding cake. Is that unreasonable?
Of course not. What was unreasonable was vindictively trying to get the baker punished, instead of just going to a different bakery, when he declined.
   1839. Lassus Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:31 PM (#5730026)
For example, Phillips will not design cakes that celebrate Halloween; express anti-family themes (such as a cake glorifying divorce); contain hateful, vulgar, or profane messages (such as a cake disparaging gays and lesbians); or promote atheism, racism, or indecency.
According to Phillips, he was once asked to make a divorce cake, and refused. He also won't make cakes with alcohol for religious reasons.


Yeah, it's the liberals who are snowflakes. Right.
   1840. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:36 PM (#5730027)

And blokes like Sanchez sure looked like buffoons when they freaked out over Stefan Halper being named.
Hmm. I wouldn't really want to get into who looks like a buffoon if I were you, given that you're still hyperventilating over the legally and factually frivolous claim that the FBI concealed material information from the FISA judges.


But since you mention Halper, why does that name sound familiar? Oh, right... because the talking point of fifteen minutes ago was the insane "spying" claim, which has now kind of fallen by the wayside behind the loony-but-still-unclear Bruce Ohr talking points.
   1841. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:37 PM (#5730028)

Trump is indeed doing that. (At least, that's my read of it.) The problem is that Brennan would be a terrible plaintiff to challenge this with. Trump has wide -- though not unlimited -- power to strip a security clearance. But Trump couldn't, say, just strip the security clearances of all Democrats. That said, in this case Brennan (1) has lied to Congress (when he denied that CIA officials had accessed the files of staffers improperly) and (2) has indeed made some statements about Trump that seem more than unhinged. So as long as Trump can articulate a rational reason for stripping Brennan's clearance -- as Trump's lawyers have -- Trump will probably win in court.

Of course, Trump has also made some comments that go beyond his statement, and therefore this starts to look like the travel ban cases where courts were willing to look beyond what Trump's lawyers argued to what Trump himself said. But even there, the Court ultimately ruled in Trump's favor, tamping down on how far a court can look past the lawyer statements.

Trump's supporters have framed the legal issue wrong, though - at least as I understand it. It's of course true that nobody is entitled to a security clearance, and that Brennan was free to say what he wanted before the clearance was revoked and he's free to say what he wants after the clearance was revoked. But the constitutional issue as I understand it is that this could be seen as retaliation for Brennan saying things critical of Trump, and Trump's power to revoke security clearances is not unfettered such that he can strip clearances just _because_ the people are critical of him.

The people he's chosen, though, make terrible plaintiffs -- and not just Brennan. Clapper has perjured himself. McCabe seems guilty of making false statements as well. Comey leaked classified information. Hayden probably would make the best plaintiff of the lot to challenge this, as Hayden merely compared Trump to Hitler, but Trump could probably argue successfully that Hayden's comments are evidence that he's irrational and unhinged.

My bet is that Trump IS revoking clearances simply because people have been critical of him. But these people also don't have much of a leg to stand on, legally. If Trump goes case by case and his lawyers articulate rational reasons I expect he would win in court.



IIRC Presidents have broad powers to revoke security clearances, but to the extent it's done to intimidate witnesses (less so Brennan than others on the list) or to punish people for speech it may be illegal. In any event, it's certainly bad, which you are this close to admitting!


In some ways it's similar to Obama's IRS targeting conservative organizations. How did you feel about that one?
   1842. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:42 PM (#5730029)
I actually did, on a couple of occasions, buy a Christmas turkey from a kosher butcher. That transaction strikes me as not far off from the Christian baker case.
I'm not clear how, BDC. Unless you're a MOT, but I'm pretty sure you're not. And even then, only if you were planning to serve it at a Christmas mass in which you were a participant or something. Kosher food isn't analogous to communion wafers or something; its intended market isn't limited to people of the faith. Unless there was a kosher food shortage and so you were taking kosher food out of the mouths of people who needed it, I don't see the issue.

EDIT: In fact, you say if I bothered to read your whole post that you're a lapsed Catholic, so there's really no issue there at all from the perspective of the butcher.

EDIT 2: If you were planning to use the turkey in a pagan ritual or something -- maybe sacrifice it to Jobu so you could hit a curveball?
   1843. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:44 PM (#5730030)
BTW, Andy, I just re-read the statement of the 60. *Nowhere* does it defend Brennan. Heck, the text seems to go out of its way not to say anything about his professional conduct.

Anyone who tries to click on that link might be forgiven for seeing it as a perfect metaphor for your entire output on BTF: It comes up a big fat blank page.
   1844. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:49 PM (#5730032)
In some ways it's similar to Obama's IRS targeting conservative organizations. How did you feel about that one?

The same way I feel about it today,** but don't let a few things like facts interfere with a comforting narrative.

** Here's the full IRS report by the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration
   1845. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:53 PM (#5730033)
Here’s a pro-tip from someone who started and ran his own business - it’s easier to be in the majority and refuse to work with a minority than to be a minority and refuse to work with the majority. Hard to imagine, but trust me! That’s why discrimination against minorities is only acceptable to lunatics and libertarians. People who live in the real world understand the disparities involved.
You know that there are Jewish and/or gay libertarians, right? It's not a question of not understanding what being a minority is like; it's a question of principle. Hell, there's plenty of unintentional 'discrimination' against Jews, such as people scheduling things on Jewish holidays without a thought, that who needs to worry about the intentional stuff?
   1846. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:56 PM (#5730034)
The Nunes memo was not discredited.
Sure it was. First tried to laughably claim that information was concealed from the FISA court, and then claimed it was buried in a footnote, when in fact the "footnote" was an entire page.
Flynn has still not been sentenced -- and again, Comey claimed he didn't purposefully lie in the FBI set-up interview.
Comey not only did not claim that, but could not have, since he wasn't even there. And he's not a mindreader. On the other hand, Flynn, who was there and knows what was in his mind, admitted that he did purposefully lie.
   1847. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 19, 2018 at 11:59 PM (#5730035)

In many cases, she admits that the text messages mean exactly what they say, as opposed to Agent Strzok, who thinks that we've all misinterpreted his own words on any text message that might be negative," Ratcliff told reporters on Monday, according to ABC News.
You realize how insane this quote is? Page can't "admit" what Strzok's "own words" mean. Only Strzok can do that. They're not obligated to believe Strzok, but they can't say, "Well, someone else interpreted them differently, so that proves Strzok is lying."
   1848. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 12:02 AM (#5730036)

Mostly, anyone who can't separate their religion from their profession, as if the two are inextricably connected, is an enormous ####### baby.
Or, more accurately, anyone who thinks someone can separate his religion from his profession is not himself religious.
   1849. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 12:23 AM (#5730038)
Only Strzok can do that. They're not obligated to believe Strzok, but they can't say, "Well, someone else interpreted them differently, so that proves Strzok is lying."

They can certainly conclude from the plain meaning of the words and the other participant's testimony that the texts meant what they appeared to say rather than Strzok's more "creative" explanations. That makes Page's testimony potentially quite important, depending on the details. Whether that is characterized as an admission isn't actually important.
   1850. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 12:24 AM (#5730039)

And what if it turns out that much of Steele's dossier info came, not from Moscow, but DC-based, former Russian intel officer Rinat Akhmetshin?
What if?

I mean, there's no actual facts to support that claim, but what if?

Setting aside trying to interpret handwritten notes by Ohr, it doesn't actually say anything about the dossier. This is information given by Simpson to Ohr long after the dossier had already been given by Steele to the FBI -- indeed, after the election -- so it stands to reason that Ohr would've been referring to other information being given to him by Simpson. Simpson wouldn't have anything useful to give to Ohr about Steele's work, or about Steele's sources in Russia -- but Simpson personally might have obtained some information from Akhmetshin.

This along with the bombshell of Ohr’s notes brings up the $56,000 question: Were the Russians at this meeting there as Putin government operatives OR were they actually there as Fusion GPS operatives working on behalf of Hillary Clinton campaign & the DNC trying to entrap the Trump team by lying to them and misrepresenting themselves?
(1) Is the "$56,000 question" an allusion to something or cultural illiteracy by Brian Cates?
(2) Is the use of the word "entrap" by Brian Cates him trying like FLTB to sound like he's intelligent by using things he think are legal-sounding terms? Because, saying, "I have some stuff to offer you" is not entrapment.
(3) And, the $64,000 question is: if Hillary and the DNC were trying to entrap the Trump team, then why, after they succeeded, did they forget to do anything about it? Why did the Hillary campaign/DNC neglect to actually tell anyone about the Trump Tower meeting, at a time when it might have done some good for the Hillary campaign?
   1851. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 12:26 AM (#5730041)
BTW, Andy, I just re-read the statement of the 60. *Nowhere* does it defend Brennan. Heck, the text seems to go out of its way not to say anything about his professional conduct.
And?

You understand that this makes your defense of Trump's actions weaker, not stronger, right?
   1852. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 12:28 AM (#5730042)

Yeah, it's the liberals who are snowflakes. Right.
Yep. Phillips simply declines to do things he doesn't want to do; he doesn't run crying to mommy and daddy government bureaucrats to punish the people who offend him.
   1853. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:57 AM (#5730048)
(1) Is the "$56,000 question" an allusion to something or cultural illiteracy by Brian Cates?
(2) Is the use of the word "entrap" by Brian Cates him trying like FLTB to sound like he's intelligent by using things he think are legal-sounding terms? Because, saying, "I have some stuff to offer you" is not entrapment.
(3) And, the $64,000 question is: if Hillary and the DNC were trying to entrap the Trump team, then why, after they succeeded, did they forget to do anything about it? Why did the Hillary campaign/DNC neglect to actually tell anyone about the Trump Tower meeting, at a time when it might have done some good for the Hillary campaign?


It's at least two layers dumber than this, since the dossier doesn't mention the Trump Tower meeting (you'd think it would if the whole thing was a setup - it would dramatically increase the credibility of the dossier!) and the dossier wasn't the basis for the FBI investigation and can't be and wasn't used for any of the many criminal charges so far (obviously); the obsessive focus on it is a transparent attempt to muddy the waters and try to pin crime and scandal on all the investigators. Hence JE being giddy about all of Trump's critics being arrested. Again, amazing that JE could recognize Trump as a wannabe authoritarian a couple years ago and have fallen so far since then.
   1854. Lassus Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:00 AM (#5730051)
Or, more accurately, anyone who thinks someone can separate his religion from his profession is not himself religious.

Thank god no profession ever was dishonest except in the most extreme circumstances. Say, when a dime might be lost.

In other words, crock of shit, page one.


Phillips simply declines to do things he doesn't want to do

It would be hilarious if he decided to stop making cakes for African American weddings.
   1855. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:07 AM (#5730052)
Here’s a pro-tip from someone who started and ran his own business - it’s easier to be in the majority and refuse to work with a minority than to be a minority and refuse to work with the majority. Hard to imagine, but trust me! That’s why discrimination against minorities is only acceptable to lunatics and libertarians. People who live in the real world understand the disparities involved.

You know that there are Jewish and/or gay libertarians, right?


It’s a big world homeboy, there were Jewish Nazi sympathizers. Note that George Soros isn’t listed - it’s times like these Juan wishes his Wikipedia account wasn’t banned for repeatedly using 4chan as a source.

And in the spirit of inclusiveness, there were gay Nazis too.

So, no, I’m not exactly gobsmacked to find out there are Log Cabin Republicans and whatever.

It's not a question of not understanding what being a minority is like; it's a question of principle.


It’s an oppressive principle because it doesn’t care about disparities of power. Imagine a world where physical assault was legal - why both lawyers and UFC fighters both have the same right to exert your influence through physical coercion, so clearly it would be wrong to declare this principle unfair or discriminatory.

But the UFC fighters are elite athletes, and lawyers are pampered fancy lads who doesn’t know how to make a fist. But if we apply this principle consistently it certainly can’t be characterized as unfair, can it?

Hell, there's plenty of unintentional 'discrimination' against Jews, such as people scheduling things on Jewish holidays without a thought, that who needs to worry about the intentional stuff?


That....is a curious position to take. Are you going to start decrying the pernicious effects of “microaggressions” like some hacky-sack hippie? Hey man, that lady said Merry Christmas, what a drag.

   1856. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:31 AM (#5730053)
Yep. Phillips simply declines to do things he doesn't want to do; he doesn't run crying to mommy and daddy government bureaucrats to punish the people who offend him.


I don’t want to go to jury duty but apparently I’m forced to at gunpoint.

Having to do some things you don’t want to is pretty much the core principle of being an adult. I hope you can understand why people view libertarianism as the philosophy of eternally angsty adolescents.
   1857. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:38 AM (#5730054)
(3) And, the $64,000 question is: if Hillary and the DNC were trying to entrap the Trump team, then why, after they succeeded, did they forget to do anything about it? Why did the Hillary campaign/DNC neglect to actually tell anyone about the Trump Tower meeting, at a time when it might have done some good for the Hillary campaign?


Follow the breadcrumbs David. Follow the breadcrumbs.
   1858. . Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:43 AM (#5730055)
Having to do some things you don’t want to is pretty much the core principle of being an adult.


Unless it's walking next door to a different cake designer.
   1859. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:50 AM (#5730056)
Or shuffling down the road to find another diner.

And really, isn’t one seat on a bus as good as any other seat?
   1860. . Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:07 AM (#5730058)
Uh, there were no other diners down the road to which to "shuffle."
   1861. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:22 AM (#5730059)
And you know this because you checked Yelp?
   1862. . Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:52 AM (#5730060)
And you know this because you checked Yelp?


Fake Historian invents Fake History.
   1863. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:03 AM (#5730062)
I submitted a new week's thread, so watch for it and prepare to jump ship.
   1864. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:10 AM (#5730064)
I submitted a new week's thread, so watch for it and prepare to jump ship.

"Next year, in Jerusalem!" That's a promise I'm sure JE is familiar with.

And maybe next thread in his next lifetime, JE will jump Trump's leaking luxury liner. Stranger things have happened.
   1865. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:14 AM (#5730065)

Having to do some things you don’t want to is pretty much the core principle of being an adult.
That's not even in the same zip code as a core principle of being an adult. In fact, it generally characterizes the lives of children in contrast to adults.
   1866. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:19 AM (#5730067)
Having to do some things you don’t want to is pretty much the core principle of being an adult.

That's not even in the same zip code as a core principle of being an adult. In fact, it generally characterizes the lives of children in contrast to adults.

You're right about the lives of children, but I wonder how many shift workers at McDonald's or butchers on a Tyson's assembly line are showing up to work every day because they find their jobs so fascinating. Necessity doesn't necessarily equal doing what you want.
   1867. DavidFoss Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:29 AM (#5730070)
Trump seems really angry in his anti-Mueller triple-tweet this morning. The adjectives keep getting more colorful. Mueller is now a disgraced, discredited, angry Democrat thug looking for trouble so that he can impact the election. A national disgrace.

He's upset about the obstruction investigation, too. I wonder if you can get dinged for obstructing and obstruction investigation? :-)
   1868. Lassus Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:35 AM (#5730072)
Having to do some things you don’t want to is pretty much the core principle of being an adult.
That's not even in the same zip code as a core principle of being an adult.


Well, it seems to be, seeing as how "Treat others the way you'd like to be treated" turned out to be too horrifying heretical.
   1869. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:52 AM (#5730075)
And you know this because you checked Yelp?

Fake Historian invents Fake History.


Concession mockingly accepted.
   1870. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 09:07 AM (#5730077)
Having to do some things you don’t want to is pretty much the core principle of being an adult.

That's not even in the same zip code as a core principle of being an adult. In fact, it generally characterizes the lives of children in contrast to adults.


Welcome to Libertopia, where it's the adults who say "I don't wanna so I ain't gonna" and the kids resign themselves to do their duty.

It's scofflaws like you what cause unrest.
   1871. BDC Posted: August 20, 2018 at 09:18 AM (#5730079)
Kosher food isn't analogous to communion wafers or something; its intended market isn't limited to people of the faith


Though that was kind of my point. A wedding cake isn't a communion wafer, either.

(And to be pedantic :) a communion wafer isn't much of anything until it's been consecrated. You can order 'em by the thousand online and use them as poker chips for all the Pope cares.)
   1872. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 09:25 AM (#5730081)
Trump seems really angry in his anti-Mueller triple-tweet this morning. The adjectives keep getting more colorful. Mueller is now a disgraced, discredited, angry Democrat thug looking for trouble so that he can impact the election. A national disgrace.


With Melania today giving a speech on cyberbullying. The irony is delicious.
   1873. BrianBrianson Posted: August 20, 2018 at 09:37 AM (#5730084)
The popular, 46 year old Prime Minister of Canada, currently in his first term, plans to stand again in the next election, expected in about a year.

I'm struggling to see how this is headline news. Like, no duh.
   1874. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5730085)
(And to be pedantic :) a communion wafer isn't much of anything until it's been consecrated.


At which point it turns into jerky.
   1875. Greg K Posted: August 20, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5730090)
In doing some research on the reform of church services in the 1630s the other day I came across a fun story. In the middle of a service a dog grabbed a loaf of bread meant for communion and trying to run off with it. Eventually, his owner managed to get it out of his mouth, but the minister decided it was best to go find some new bread.

Archbishop William Laud's campaign to put railings around the altars in English churches is traditionally understood as having deep theological implications. The physical barrier of the altar from the congregation struck Calvinists as downright Papist, as if it had supernatural power, rather than just being a table.

But in more than a few local communities (where theology, or national politics were perhaps not priorities) dogs played a role in building the railings. There's quite a few complaints of parishioners bringing their dogs into church, and communion tables getting pissed on.
   1876. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 09:58 AM (#5730096)
Sure it was. First tried to laughably claim that information was concealed from the FISA court, and then claimed it was buried in a footnote, when in fact the "footnote" was an entire page.
Round and round you want to go, huh? The court had no clue Hillary and the DNC (“Candidate 2,” maybe?) were bankrolling the operation via Perkins Coie, where the campaign’s general counsel happens to chair the political law division. Funny how the Bureau left out those juicy morsels.

Comey not only did not claim that, but could not have, since he wasn't even there. And he's not a mindreader. On the other hand, Flynn, who was there and knows what was in his mind, admitted that he did purposefully lie.
Glenn Kessler:
In a letter dated May 11 to FBI Director Christopher Wray and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, quoted from notes taken by a "career, nonpartisan law enforcement officer" who attended a March 15, 2017, briefing by Comey. The agent quoted Comey as saying the FBI agents "saw nothing that led them to believe [he was] lying." Grassley also quoted from committee staff notes that "agents saw no change in his demeanor or tone that would say he was being untruthful."

The majority report of the House Intelligence Committee includes a finding that FBI agents "did not detect any deception during Flynn's interview." As evidence, the report quotes Comey from a private briefing on March 2, 2017: "the agents . . . discerned no physical indications of deception. They didn't see any change in posture, in tone, in inflection, in eye contact. They saw nothing that indicated to them that he knew he was lying to them."

The majority report also quoted from a briefing given by Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe on Dec. 19, 2017, after Flynn pleaded guilty: The "conundrum that we faced on their return from the interview is that although [the agents] didn't detect deception in the statements that he made in the interview . . . the statements were inconsistent with our understanding of the conversation that he had actually had with the ambassador." McCabe added, "The two people who interviewed [Flynn] didn't think he was lying, [which] was not [a] great beginning of a false statement case."

The "minority views" offered by Democrats did not challenge whether these quotes were correct or whether they were taken out of context. (A spokesman for the Democrats says the quotes are accurate.) The document simply notes the majority finding "ignores both that Flynn himself admitted in his plea to deceiving FBI agents, and that by the time of his interview with the FBI on January 24, 2017, at least one other official was aware that Vice President-elect Pence had told the same lie on television."

These accounts of the Comey and McCabe briefings track with press reporting at the time. CNN reported on Feb. 17, 2017, that the FBI was not expected to pursue charges against Flynn.

"Flynn initially told investigators sanctions were not discussed. But FBI agents challenged him, asking if he was certain that was his answer. He said he didn't remember," the CNN report said. "The FBI interviewers believed Flynn was cooperative and provided truthful answers. Although Flynn didn't remember all of what he talked about, they don't believe he was intentionally misleading them, the officials say."
Emphasis mine.

So now you know that Comey did say it.

What if?

I mean, there's no actual facts to support that claim, but what if?
Yes, what if? Who else fits that description? Anyway, Ohr will appear before a joint Judiciary-Oversight and Government Reform later this week in a closed setting and it's a pretty good bet he'll be asked about that individual's identity..
Setting aside trying to interpret handwritten notes by Ohr, it doesn't actually say anything about the dossier. This is information given by Simpson to Ohr long after the dossier had already been given by Steele to the FBI -- indeed, after the election -- so it stands to reason that Ohr would've been referring to other information being given to him by Simpson. Simpson wouldn't have anything useful to give to Ohr about Steele's work, or about Steele's sources in Russia -- but Simpson personally might have obtained some information from Akhmetshin.
Oh I see, I'm not permitted to reason what the notes mean but you're allowed to reason that Ohr was referring to "other information?" Dude.

And let's not forget, Simpson and Ohr collaborated so that the Bureau could continue to work with Steele and use his product even after they had supposedly terminated the arrangement.
(3) And, the $64,000 question is: if Hillary and the DNC were trying to entrap the Trump team, then why, after they succeeded, did they forget to do anything about it? Why did the Hillary campaign/DNC neglect to actually tell anyone about the Trump Tower meeting, at a time when it might have done some good for the Hillary campaign?
What would the campaign have supplied as evidence that such a meeting took place and what was discussed there? And how that info was obtained? Um...

And lest we forget, not only did no criminal activity take place at the meeting, DTJr, JK, and RM weren't the least bit interested in discussing Magnitsky, which is strange, as you would think for a campaign supposedly taking it in the ass from the Kremlin would do anything to help.

All in all, David, this was pretty sad. Your comments are almost always considerably more substantive and challenging.
   1877. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:04 AM (#5730098)
1867 comes short of capturing the lack of hinge....


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Disgraced and discredited Bob Mueller and his whole group of Angry Democrat Thugs spent over 30 hours with the White House Councel, only with my approval, for purposes of transparency. Anybody needing that much time when they know there is no Russian Collusion is just someone....
6:28 AM - Aug 20, 2018


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

....looking for trouble. They are enjoying ruining people’s lives and REFUSE to look at the real corruption on the Democrat side - the lies, the firings, the deleted Emails and soooo much more! Mueller’s Angry Dems are looking to impact the election. They are a National Disgrace!
6:38 AM - Aug 20, 2018


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Where’s the Collusion? They made up a phony crime called Collusion, and when there was no Collusion they say there was Obstruction (of a phony crime that never existed). If you FIGHT BACK or say anything bad about the Rigged Witch Hunt, they scream Obstruction!
6:48 AM - Aug 20, 2018
   1878. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:04 AM (#5730099)
But since you mention Halper, why does that name sound familiar? Oh, right... because the talking point of fifteen minutes ago was the insane "spying" claim, which has now kind of fallen by the wayside behind the loony-but-still-unclear Bruce Ohr talking points.
Au contraire, Halper's role is still curious and being checked out.

And on a related note, I challenge you too: Please explain why Sanchez and others accept as gospel that Mifsud was a Russian asset, never mind all of his prior ties to Western intel agencies and politicos?
   1879. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:10 AM (#5730100)
A footnote to #1876: Steele was in constant communication with Simpson's media buddies in the weeks before the election trying to get someone to bite on the dossier's contents. ABGL subsequently admitted its reporters were desperately trying to verify *any* fo the substantive claims but failed. Ultimately, only Isikoff and Corn published anything.
   1880. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:12 AM (#5730101)
I notice Trump has also lost count of the Angry Democrats... It was 12... then 13... then spiked up to 17 just a few weeks ago.. now, they are beyond counting.
   1881. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5730103)
Here you go, Andy:
"Our signatures below do not necessarily mean that we concur with the opinions expressed by former Director Brennan or the way in which he expressed them," it says. "What they do represent, however, is our firm belief that the country will be weakened if there is a political litmus test applied before seasoned experts are allowed to share their views."
Emphasis mine.
   1882. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5730105)
Here you go, Andy:


60 ex-CIA members condemn Trump for revoking Brennan’s security clearance

A headline is a kind of emphasis....
   1883. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5730106)
It's at least two layers dumber than this, since the dossier doesn't mention the Trump Tower meeting (you'd think it would if the whole thing was a setup - it would dramatically increase the credibility of the dossier!) and the dossier wasn't the basis for the FBI investigation and can't be and wasn't used for any of the many criminal charges so far (obviously); the obsessive focus on it is a transparent attempt to muddy the waters and try to pin crime and scandal on all the investigators. Hence JE being giddy about all of Trump's critics being arrested. Again, amazing that JE could recognize Trump as a wannabe authoritarian a couple years ago and have fallen so far since then.
Again, dude? No one says the dossier was the "basis for the FBI investigation." As McCabe admitted, the dossier was what was relied upon for the FISC warrant application.

No dossier? No warrant application.

BTW, Grassley and Graham say hi and continue to wonder what they did to offend you so.
   1884. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5730107)
The redacted Page application is available here and the footnote on page 15-16 states that "The FBI identified U.S. person [Fusion GPS I believe? or Glenn Simpson] hired Source #1 to conduct this research. The identified U.S. person never advised Source #1 as to the motivation behind the research into Candidate #1's ties to Russia. The FBI speculates that the identified U.S. person was likely looking for information that could be used to discredit Candidate #1's campaign." The Nunes memo, available here, implied that the FBI scandalously (not illegally, mind, since it wouldn't be illegal) didn't reveal a political connection, but the FBI just did not name specific people or parties - this footnote is enough to say that there was a political motivation behind the hiring of Steele. Nunes is the same guy who lied and tried to turn unmasking into a scandal, so you'd think he would know about the use of pseudonyms. Nunes also deliberately lied about the use of the Yahoo article - to steal this accurate language from Wikipedia, "[The Nunes memo] [a]sserted the DOJ referenced a Yahoo News article as corroboration of Steele's information, even though it later became known that Steele had been a source for the article, an assertion rebutted by Democrats. However, the application actually cited the Yahoo News article only to show that Carter Page had denied allegations against him, under a section entitled 'Page’s Denial of Cooperation With the Russian Government.'"
   1885. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:22 AM (#5730108)
Kevin McCarthy... man who doesn't know what settings are.


Kevin McCarthy
‏Verified account @GOPLeader

Another day, another example of conservatives being censored on social media. @jack easy fix: explain to Congress what is going on. #StopTheBias cc @IngrahamAngle
10:06 AM - 17 Aug 2018
   1886. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5730109)
A footnote to #1876: Steele was in constant communication with Simpson's media buddies in the weeks before the election trying to get someone to bite on the dossier's contents. ABGL subsequently admitted its reporters were desperately trying to verify *any* fo the substantive claims but failed. Ultimately, only Isikoff and Corn published anything.


Whereas if they had known about the Trump Tower meeting, it would have been pretty easy for reporters to verify that certain attendees were there. It would not have been as effective without the emails, as the Trump campaign would of course have lied about it, as they did for months about having any Russian contacts at all and as they did specifically about the Trump Tower meeting in a statement dictated by Trump Sr. himself before the emails about the meeting were released, but it still could have been reported. (Of course, you don't care or find suspicious that they lied so much about all of this!). But again, the fact that the Trump Tower meeting isn't in the dossier and wasn't revealed before the election has no impact on your conspiracy theories.

edit: one step further, of course - the fact that the FBI went out of its way to hurt the Clinton campaign and not reveal the Russia investigation also has no impact on your conspiracy theories!
   1887. BDC Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5730110)
dogs played a role in building the railings. There's quite a few complaints of parishioners bringing their dogs into church


One thing that I noticed about Dublin, when I went there a lot in the 1980s at least, was that the big parish churches tended to keep doors open all day, and there were always dogs roaming the streets. As a result, there were constantly dogs wandering up and down the aisles of churches. This seemed too common for any Dubliner to even notice, but it struck me as a bit odd.
   1888. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5730111)
The Nunes memo, available here, implied that the FBI scandalously (not illegally, mind, since it wouldn't be illegal) didn't reveal a political connection, but the FBI just did not name specific people or parties - this footnote is enough to say that there was a political motivation behind the hiring of Steele.
Now explain why the sneaky language and not "Candidate #2?" They knew about Perkins Coie and Marc Elias, hello?
   1889. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5730112)
I swear JE will be arguing about the stupid dossier long after Mueller has put forth the result of his investigation. It has become the lynchpin of a conspiracy of massive proportions in his mind, wen of course it is mostly a sideshow.
   1890. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:38 AM (#5730114)
   1891. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5730118)
I swear JE will be arguing about the stupid dossier long after Mueller has put forth the result of his investigation. It has become the lynchpin of a conspiracy of massive proportions in his mind, wen of course it is mostly a sideshow.
You forgot to add, "Who is Adam Schiff?" and "I don't care very much."
   1892. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5730119)
   1893. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5730120)
You forgot to add, "Who is Adam Schiff?" and "I don't care very much."


I was too busy yawning.
   1894. BDC Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5730121)
And bread in church also reminds me, on the holy-baked-goods front, of going to Mass when I was in college, back before the Decline. We had a fairly hippie congregation, first-name-basis with a priest who wore jeans and tie-dyed vestments, that sort of thing. For communion one night, somebody decided to bake a delicious crumbly whole-grain loaf. After everybody had received, Father Jake looked into the bread-basket, which was full of crumbs. He said "Well … technically … everything in this basket is the Host. And it's not going to be easy to store it. … We have to eat it up." So everybody came back for a second helping of Host crumbs. Such is the materiality of theology.
   1895. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5730122)
Whereas if they had known about the Trump Tower meeting, it would have been pretty easy for reporters to verify that certain attendees were there. It would not have been as effective without the emails, as the Trump campaign would of course have lied about it, as they did for months about having any Russian contacts at all and as they did specifically about the Trump Tower meeting in a statement dictated by Trump Sr. himself before the emails about the meeting were released, but it still could have been reported. (Of course, you don't care or find suspicious that they lied so much about all of this!). But again, the fact that the Trump Tower meeting isn't in the dossier and wasn't revealed before the election has no impact on your conspiracy theories.
And yet you don't find it the least bit curious that the Clinton campaign affirmatively denied to Haberman and other reporters that they had bankrolled the Fusion GPS dossier? And it was only when Simpson was faced with discovery that he spilled the beans?

I notice too you don't answer my question about revealing how they would have known about the meeting in the first place.
edit: one step further, of course - the fact that the FBI went out of its way to hurt the Clinton campaign and not reveal the Russia investigation also has no impact on your conspiracy theories!
Oh? Now it's the entire FBI? LMAO. You must be really tired from all of the #### you've been shoveling.
   1896. perros Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:49 AM (#5730123)
Mmmm. Breadcrumbs.
   1897. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5730124)
You should all take your weird dossier obsession to the new thread. I am sure over there it will seem fresh, new, and relevant and it will totally absolve GOP President Trump of everything and anything ... for reasons.
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