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Monday, August 20, 2018

OTP 2018 August 20: Sick of divisive summertime politics? Baseball’s thrills offer an escape

First, things starting with the letter “L” come to mind when thinking about this summer.
“The Summer of Lying?” Nah, let’s keep this positive.

It seems like certain politicians and college coaches have been competing in a never-ending race to the bottom of the dishonesty cesspool.
“The Summer of LeBron?” Maybe. But no, LeBron James doesn’t need any more attention.

But his decision to build a new public school for at-risk kids in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, and cover all student costs should be commended by everyone, including the U.S. Secretary of Education and her boss.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:45 AM | 2230 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   101. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: August 20, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5730297)
Yes, David, they left out pertinent information. You're covering for this by claiming there's no evidence the Bureau knew that it was Clinton/DNC-funded.


In one of the first threads on this subject, I got one of the Trump defenders (it may have even been JE) to agree with the following statement:

If the federal judge decided that they needed to know exactly who was bankrolling Steele in order to grant the warrant, they would have ordered the FBI to provide the specific information. The fact that he didn't (AFAIK) ask for the information meant that he didn't feel that he needed it to grant the warrant.


The entire basis of JE's argument is that a federal judge is a powerless rubber stamp. Unfortunately for him, this just isn't true. They are not dumb and they have the power to force the FBI to provide any and all information they want in considering the warrant request. Since there is clear information in the warrant that this was political, the fact that the judge didn't feel that need for specific information on who paid for it seems pretty determinative that it wasn't very important.
   102. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 20, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5730298)
I was just reading a book about Jim Jones.

Was it perchance this one? Read it about a year ago -- pretty interesting.

V. S. Naipaul's brother Shiva wrote another one that'd be hard to top: Journey to Nowhere. (English title: Black and White). It's especially good on how the Bay Area politicians all sucked up to Jones before belatedly realizing what a con man he was.
   103. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5730299)
All that was a very longwinded way of not answering the question. Which, to remind you, was why, if the entire Trump Tower meeting was an attempt by Hillary¹ to entrap Trump, Hillary made no attempt to actually use the Trump Tower meeting. I'm not asking about the dossier. I'm asking about the Trump Tower meeting. A meeting which we know for a fact -- and she would have known for a fact, if she was involved in planning it -- actually took place.

Throughout the campaign Hillary's folks made hiding their involvement in Russia-Russia-Russia a priority. Perhaps they calculated that they wouldn't really be helped by again reminding folks that the vulnerabilities of Hillary's own rogue e-mail system might have provided the Russians, or others, with negative material on her, and that referencing the Trump Tower meeting themselves would just draw attention to their own extensive connections with Natalia Veselnitskaya. Or perhaps they knew that complaining about your opponent merely listening to folks claiming to have negative information wouldn't get any traction.with voters. In any event, the policy of the Clinton Campaign seems to have been: "Why stick your neck out when you can get the press, or even the government itself, to do your bidding."
   104. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5730301)
So JE are you acknowledging that it makes no sense to say that the Trump Tower meeting was a set up or not? It seems like you’re not- you’re sticking to the idea that they set it up but didn’t want anyone to know that they knew about it so they didn’t tell the press or include it in the dossier or do anything like that?
Goldstone, the music publicist, put in the request for the meeting. Whether it originated from Fusion GPS/Orbis or someone inside the Kremlin still seems unclear.

But we do know that Veselnitskaya was a Fusion GPS client and Akmetshin was working with the outfit. We also know that Veselnitskaya showed up to the meeting with Fusion-drafted Magnitsky talking points.
   105. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5730302)
Jesus, YC too? It’s great to see people simultaneously argue that there was nothing to the Trump Tower meeting (never mind all the lies about it and Russian contacts, they don’t even address that) but it was a setup but neither the Clinton campaign nor Fusion nor Steele did anything with the information yhet would have had if it was a setup, not even include it in the dossier, because there there was nothing to it. If there was nothing to it why are you so invested in really stupid conspiracy theories?
   106. Jay Z Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:00 PM (#5730303)
No such power disparity. And if a business owner actually did say that to me about my daughter, the resulting boycott would do far more damage to the business than a lawsuit would.


So all Jackie Robinson had to do after his "failed" tryout with the Red Sox is boycott them. And the Yankees. And the Athletics, the Tigers, Indians, Browns, White Sox, and Senators. Plus the Braves, Cubs, Cardinals, Dodgers, Reds, Pirates, Phillies, and Giants. Plus all of the PCL, AA, and International League teams. All of the lower minors as well. And the NFL. All of which were refusing to hire him at the time, a position you wholeheartedly endorse.

If you want to caucus with bigots, that's your business. Whitewashing the history of this country makes you a lying ############.
   107. DavidFoss Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5730304)
Perhaps they calculated that they wouldn't really be helped by again reminding folks that the vulnerabilities of Hillary's own rogue e-mail system might have provided the Russians, or others, with negative material on her, and that referencing the Trump Tower meeting themselves would just draw attention to their own extensive connections with Natalia Veselnitskaya. Or perhaps they knew that complaining about your opponent merely listening to folks claiming to have negative information wouldn't get any traction.with voters

Perhaps Perhaps Perhaps. If you can't make your mind up, we'll never get started.

One of the great ironies of the whole thing is that Hillary's own private server seemed to be the only one that did not get hacked. The Russians seemed to get their hands on everyone else's emails, but not from that server.
   108. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5730305)
JE, so you’re just asking questions? Can you acknowledge it doesn’t make sense? Again, the meeting was not even in the dossier! It would have been much more credible if Steele had known about the meeting and included it.
   109. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5730306)
This along with the bombshell of Ohr’s notes brings up the $56,000 question: Were the Russians at this meeting there as Putin government operatives OR were they actually there as Fusion GPS operatives working on behalf of Hillary Clinton campaign & the DNC trying to entrap the Trump team by lying to them and misrepresenting themselves?
I'm guessing the print in bold is your doing, not the author's? Ditto with the all-CAPS version of "or?"

As I noted in the reply to Count, Rinat Akmetshin worked for Fusion GPS so yes, it's reasonable to suggest that Fusion GPS set up the meeting. Just because Hilary/DNC bankrolled the Fusion/Orbis work doesn't mean they were involved in proactive strategy sessions, let alone day-to-day tactics.
   110. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5730308)
FTR I've never delinked (unlinked? nonlinked?) Hillary to Simpson. Only to Steele.
Please tell me you're not downplaying Steele's link to Simpson.
   111. dlf Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5730309)
#106 - Are you suggesting that Branch Rickey integrated the Dodgers because the law required him to do so?
   112. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5730310)
The entire basis of JE's argument is that a federal judge is a powerless rubber stamp. Unfortunately for him, this just isn't true. They are not dumb and they have the power to force the FBI to provide any and all information they want in considering the warrant request. Since there is clear information in the warrant that this was political, the fact that the judge didn't feel that need for specific information on who paid for it seems pretty determinative that it wasn't very important.
This isn't JE's argument.

If there's nothing to hide from saying "Candidate #2" -- heck, the Bureau used it elsewhere in the application -- why didn't they simply say "Candidate #2" when describing who was financing the product? And why would the judges assume that the FBI officials were snowing them?
   113. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5730311)
If the federal judge decided that they needed to know exactly who was bankrolling Steele in order to grant the warrant, they would have ordered the FBI to provide the specific information. The fact that he didn't (AFAIK) ask for the information meant that he didn't feel that he needed it to grant the warrant.

The criticism is that the FBI misled the judge by saying that they "speculated" that Steele was being bankrolled by a person [Simpson] looking to discredit Trump. They knew that Hillary and the DNC were funding the effort. So, rather than disclose the actual bias behind Steele's work, they just hinted at his possible bias. Don't see how that can be excused by saying the judge should have probed more deeply, even if that's true.
   114. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5730312)
Zonk, #93:
Meh, the spelling of "Councel" is the tell that this tweet was probably designed to do little more than light up switchboards.

As with all things Trumpkin Defense Force - it can never just be because their Dear Leader is a moron. Truth isn't truth.
The Independent: Trump's aides deliberately 'inserting grammatical errors into his tweets to mimic his style'

Donald Trump’s aides reportedly insert grammatical errors into the US president’s tweets in an attempt to mirror his tweeting style.

......Two White House staffers have told The Boston Globe that aides are penning tweets which are indistinguishable from those written by the president himself. The staffers are believed to deliberately adopt symbols of Mr Trump’s tweeting – such as words which are capitalized for emphasis and fragmented sentences.

.......According to the publication, when Mr Trump is not tweeting about a topic himself, aides will provide him with several sample tweets they could send from his account and he will select one and occasionally make edits. The staffers said that if there are photos attached to a tweet or hashtags it was fair to assume it had been tweeted by an aide on behalf of Mr Trump.

New York Magazine adds:
Some staff members even relish the scoldings Trump gets from elites shocked by the Trumpian language they strive to imitate, believing that debates over presidential typos fortify the belief within his base that he has the common touch.
   115. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:13 PM (#5730314)
Again, the meeting was not even in the dossier! It would have been much more credible if Steele had known about the meeting and included it.
Was Ahmetskin tied to Fusion GPS or not? Was Veselnitskaya tied to Fusion GPS or not? Is the former now possibly a source or the source for Steele WRT the original dossier or follow-up info? Did the latter walk into the meeting armed with Simpson's talking points? Had she not just seen Simpson? Would she see him again the very next day?

Is that all just a yuge coincidence?
   116. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5730315)
A) It’s not clear if the FBI knew then who was paying Fusion, although YC and JE keep saying it;
B) It wouldn’t be a material omission. I think the pro-Trump faction is so far up their own ass on this they’ve lost sight of this- they’re just too deeply invested in “I know you are but what am I / you’re the colluder!” Why would a judge change their mind on an application if they had more info?
   117. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5730321)
Ok JE you just can’t acknowledge it doesn’t make sense. Again, it’s not even in the dossier itself! As DN wrote about this, your theory is that all this stuff was set up and then nobody did anything with it at all.
   118. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5730322)
EDIT: Coca-cola with real cocaine for YR.


Geez, I picked a bad time not to renew my DEA Schedule II license.
   119. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5730323)
At the end of the day -

The Trumpkin loonies want you to believe that there exists this massive, international conspiracy. This ingenious 'plan' involved fake meetings to entrap him (except when it didn't), horrific civil liberties abuses to get a FISA warrant against a Trump-described coffee fetcher who had supposedly left the campaign two months prior, and all manner of CYA subterfuge where the actual contributions of the DOJ and sub-agencies in late fall 2016 that hurt Clinton were just clever misdirections.

Never mind that - if one wanted to use this massive international apparatus of evil doers in such a manner - there are a bazillion better ways that would surely resonate more with a braindead electorate... the guy ####### brags on tape about his ability to commit sexual assault whenever he pleases - I'd like to think these conspirators would have been smart enough to instead, conduct some well-timed raids on his reality TV patron in order to leak what I'm sure are spectacular outtakes.

This is all basically birtherism for the Trumpkin (alleged) intellectual set. A chance to waller in the hogshit their rank-and-file voters waller in while claiming it's not really the same mud and pigshit.

Thinking you can debate "this" with any sort of rationality or logic is a fool's errand. Just remember that when this whole farce comes crashing down - these Qanon idiots will try to pretend they weren't what they clearly are.
   120. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5730325)
Good thread here discussing press coverage of investigation (can’t quote it on my phone).
   121. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5730326)
A) It’s not clear if the FBI knew then who was paying Fusion, although YC and JE keep saying it;
This gets funnier every time you guys repeat it. A warrant application is sought form FISC, yet we're supposed to believe no one bothers to check who's bankrolling these salacious and unverified allegations against a major party nominee?
B) It wouldn’t be a material omission.
A FISA warrant gets approved merely because folks Hillary's people hired said Trump's doing really bad things?

Put the shoe on the other foot, Count, and think whether a Trump-backed oppo shop during the 2020 campaign gives a folder containing Iranian regime-related allegations about Bernie/Kamala/Liz/DeBlasio to Sessions, who then relies on those goods to secure a FISA warrant without fully informing the judges of its origins. You like?

Anyway, please make up your mind. Are you championing position A or B?
   122. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5730328)
And as to David's comment claiming Hillary's campaign had innocent reasons for denying the dossier bankrolling was theirs: The campaign violated FEC law by not reporting these payments to Perkins Coie.
   123. Tom T Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5730329)
#106 - Are you suggesting that Branch Rickey integrated the Dodgers because the law required him to do so?


While the implication of said question is not false, it is misleading. The argument to the effect that "it was resolved without the law interceding!" seems disingenuous here, given that there was a 60-year period in which someone like Jackie Robinson was not even considered for employment. Wouldn't it have been nice if the laws of the day (in much of the country) hadn't expressly encouraged/fostered the refusal to hire him? If given an actual tryout opportunity, perhaps one of the people running those various teams would have seen a thrown or struck ball at a tryout and asked "Who did THAT?" and when he saw the man who did THAT was most notably "brunette", said administrator might have achieved a touch of enlightenment. Even better, perhaps without such laws and customs this enlightenment would have happened years before, and we would only think of Jackie Robinson as a heck of a baseball player.

Sometimes, ya just gotta enact a law (OR have strongmen/vigilantes going around...I guess this is the preferred Libertarian perspective?) to make things happen as they should. Given that nobody has put a gun to my head to treat my international students the same as my other students (but you can track down the story in our local U's student newspaper about a faculty member who, um, doesn't seem to understand this viewpoint...somebody should be lawyering up), I'm okay with the legal option as a fallback when widely-held societal viewpoints are problematic.
   124. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5730332)
Anyway, please make up your mind. Are you championing position A or B?


Funny stuff from the guy who spends his time just asking questions and suggesting, hinting, and alluding to things but never ever actually lays it all out. Maybe you are in more forthcoming mood than you have been in the past, so I will ask.

So what is the real truth behind all this? On one side there is the story about the Trump campaign in bed with the Russians, meetings with government agents and then lying about it for months and years afterwards, but on the other side, your side we have ... what exactly? How deep does this conspiracy go, where do the breadcrumbs lead?
   125. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5730333)
The Trumpkin loonies want you to believe that there exists this massive, international conspiracy. This ingenious 'plan' involved fake meetings to entrap him (except when it didn't), horrific civil liberties abuses to get a FISA warrant against a Trump-described coffee fetcher who had supposedly left the campaign two months prior, and all manner of CYA subterfuge where the actual contributions of the DOJ and sub-agencies in late fall 2016 that hurt Clinton were just clever misdirections.
*Still* no substance, huh? Oh, and what does that say about the folks who have at various points bleated DOSSIER AND PEE TAPE and LOGAN ACT and COLLUSION and TREASON, not to mention those who are so far gone they and their dirty laundry jump into a station wagon and flee to Canada? What do they win?
   126. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5730336)
*Still* no substance, huh? Oh, and what does that say about the folks who have at various points bleated DOSSIER AND PEE TAPE and LOGAN ACT and COLLUSION and TREASON, not to mention those who are so far gone they and their dirty laundry jump into a station wagon and flee to Canada? What do they win?


Whatever.

Go roll around in more of your pigshit and pretend it's anything other than that.

   127. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5730342)
We needed a poll for this?

As a candidate, Trump frequently claimed he would hire “the best people.” Few Americans agree that this promise has panned out a year and a half into his term. Just 30% say Trump does hire the best people, while a clear majority of 58% say he does not. Another 7% volunteer that the quality of his hiring choices have been mixed. While most Republicans (67%) say that Trump does hire the best people, a sizable minority of his fellow partisans either disagree (18%) or give a mixed response (11%). On the other hand, nearly all Democrats (93%) say that Trump does not hire the best people.


His target retinue is on full display here...
   128. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5730343)
Re 121- a) and b) aren’t in conflict, so there’s no reason to choose. You don’t have any evidence the FBI knew about who was paying Fusion when the application was written, and it wouldn’t have been a material omission if they had known. As you know, the FBI stayed that they speculated it was for opposition research, and laid out reasons why they thought Steele was credible, and had other evidence / rationales for the warrant.
   129. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5730345)
The criticism is that the FBI misled the judge by saying that they "speculated" that Steele was being bankrolled by by a person [Simpson] looking to discredit Trump. They knew that Hillary and the DNC were funding the effort. So, rather than disclose the actual bias behind Steele's work, they just hinted at his possible bias. Don't see how that can be excused by saying the judge should have probed more deeply, even if that's true.


You have a very weird definition of deception. Deception would have been saying that the info came from a wiretap or a close friend of Page etc. Saying that it was political was entirely accurate. Otherwise it was written like all intelligence reports in that what was gotten from the source and additional information derived from the source information is very carefully differentiated*. In this case, the person bankrolling Steele was not gotten from the source, so they were very clear that it was additional information and not from the source itself. Again like all intelligence reports, US persons are not named unless necessary for the reader to understand the information. Decision makers are allowed to ask for the specific names when needed for their jobs.

So the judge was not deceived as to the underlying nature of the information (political dirt). He was not deceived because the US persons weren't explicitly named as that is normal practice*. He was not deceived about the explicit identity of who bankrolled Steele because if he wanted it, he could have gotten it. He didn't feel that it was important enough to ask for. He was not deceived as to the source of information about who bankrolled Steele because the FBI indicated that it didn't come from Steele. So please tell me what you are arguing is misleading/deceptive in the FBI request.

Your argument sill comes down to the fact that the judge knew that additional information was available in areas that you feel should have been critical to the decision, but was too dumb to recognize it and by refusing to ask for the additional information let the government pull a fast one on him. You are refusing to consider that the judge knows what information was necessary for his decision and he didn't feel additional information about who bankrolled Steele was needed. Please tell me why your insistence that the information was critical overrides the judge's decision that it wasn't needed.

*personnel experience in reading reports (although not FISA requests)
   130. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5730347)
and had other evidence / rationales for the warrant.
Please stop. You can't bring yourself to mention Grassley and Graham and now it's evident you pretend not to know what McCabe admitted to HPSCI, no matter how many times you get reminded.
   131. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5730349)
Jesus JE I can’t address every out of context snippet you cling to because there’s so much BS- we have the redacted Page application, you can look at it. And Graham and Grassley haven’t been as bad as House Republicans but have also been really bad- that’s not a defense.
   132. Shredder Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5730351)
Jesus JE I can’t address every out of context snippet you cling to because there’s so much BS- we have the redacted Page application, you can look at it. And Graham and Grassley haven’t been as bad as House Republicans but have also been really bad- that’s not a defense.
I'm tellin' ya. He's go exceptionally high quality cement lining his skull.
   133. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5730352)
Again like all intelligence reports, US persons are not named unless necessary for the reader to understand the information. Decision makers are allowed to ask for the specific names when needed for their jobs.
Except typing "Candidate #2" doesn't constitute the naming of a US person either, yet that wasn't done here.

As has been explained previously, elsewhere in the application "Candidate #1" was used to refer to Trump, and "Candidate #2" for Hillary. Additionally, "Political Party #1" was cited to mean the GOP. Accordingly, there's no reason why the application didn't mention that "Candidate #2" and "Political Party #2" (Dems) paid for the research in question.
   134. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5730354)
I'm begging people never to give utterance the name "Gr-ssl-y." Because once anyone says that devastating name, our whole deep state tower of lies instantly crumbles to ruin, like the trumpet and the walls of Jericho.
   135. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5730355)
Put the shoe on the other foot, Count, and think whether a Trump-backed oppo shop during the 2020 campaign gives a folder containing Iranian regime-related allegations about Bernie/Kamala/Liz/DeBlasio to Sessions, who then relies on those goods to secure a FISA warrant without fully informing the judges of its origins. You like?


I'm not sure why you think this is a gotcha? Oppo research doesn't mean its wrong. If someone presented the FBI with credible evidence (as determined by the FBI) that the Democratic nominee is doing something fishy, then I hope they discreetly investigate it. If it is a political dirty trick that has no basis in truth, then nothing will come of the investigation. If the information is true, then the US is better off knowing the Democratic nominee is doing something wrong. If during the investigation they turn up evidence of other crimes, then they should investigate those also.

The important issue is discretion until the results of the investigation are known, not investigating credible evidence of wrong doing. The Obama FBI did this very well with the Trump investigation and I would hope the professionals in the Trump FBI would be as discrete in any hypothetical investigation into a Democratic politician.
   136. Jay Z Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5730357)
#106 - Are you suggesting that Branch Rickey integrated the Dodgers because the law required him to do so?


The Red Sox tryout came in April 1945. Reportedly due to pressure from a liberal councilman.

I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt the courts would have intervened. DMN is implying that boycotts are the only necessary redress.

I think it's unlikely that consumer boycotts or the threat thereof would have had any impact in getting Robinson hired. As DMN is fond of saying, it's about the principle. Robinson deserved to be hired to play baseball because of his skill set, even if the public was wholly indifferent to whether baseball was ever integrated or not. Which much of it likely was through Robinson's career. I'm sure many were willing to cheer him on after the fact, but those willing to be leaders on the issue were mighty thin on the ground.
   137. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5730358)
I must have missed when we all agreed to confer the Profile in Courage on Chuck "People should be worried about government pulling the plug on grandma" and "at least Trump got Obama to release his birth certificate" Grassley.

Political weasel knows his base.

Film at 11.
   138. Count Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5730360)
135- that’s a great point- the FBI didn’t publicize the investigation before the election, while repeatedly unfairly treating Hillary. This is actually connected directly to JE’s conspiracy theories: the FBI and other institutions are so used to incredibly dumb, bad faith criticisms from the right wing that they over react and hurt candidates on the left more in order to appear neutral (note: this doesn’t work, pro-trump people are off in la la land and are incapable of admitting that the FBI improperly favored their candidate over Clinton).
   139. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5730361)
Accordingly, there's no reason why the application didn't mention that "Candidate #2" and "Political Party #2" (Dems) paid for the research in question.


So what is your reason? Why do you think they did this (no doubt) nefarious switcheroo? What is the grand conspiracy here?

Come on dude, others are calling you nuts and here I am throwing you a lifeline. You can show you are not nuts by laying it all out in clear terms. What do you think is really going on here?
   140. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5730362)
A Russian Oligarch Bought Maryland’s Election Vendor. Now These Senators Are Questioning the Rules:
Maryland’s Democratic senators want a Senate committee to require disclosures of foreign investments in U.S. election systems, an alarm bell set off by a Russian oligarch’s connection to their state’s voter registration system.

The request to the Rules and Administration Committee comes from Sen. Benjamin L. Cardin and Sen. Chris Van Hollen. Van Hollen is also the chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

The Maryland senators have been alarmed by a Russian oligarch’s investment connection to ByteGrid LLC, which handles the Old Line State’s voter registration database and candidate management operations.
Close scrutiny is warranted, although no evidence is presented here that this "oligarch" is all that close to Putin. At this point, Congress should consider passing legislation mandating paper ballots for all federal elections.
   141. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5730363)
Except typing "Candidate #2" doesn't constitute the naming of a US person either, yet that wasn't done here.


English allows lots of different ways to express the same idea. Why is this wording so important to you, but not the Federal judge who had to make the decision? How does the wording you insist on make the judge anymore aware of the political nature of Steele's work than the wording the FBI actually used? Does your argument really boil down to they didn't say it the way I would have, so there must be a vast conspiracy?
   142. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5730364)
The important issue is discretion until the results of the investigation are known, not investigating credible evidence of wrong doing. The Obama FBI did this very well with the Trump investigation and I would hope the professionals in the Trump FBI would be as discrete in any hypothetical investigation into a Democratic politician.
Maybe that's because, despite all of the traps they may have set to ensnare Trump campaign people, they didn't so much as get a nibble before the election?
   143. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5730365)
English allows lots of different ways to express the same idea. Why is this wording so important to you, but not the Federal judge who had to make the decision? How does the wording you insist on make the judge anymore aware of the political nature of Steele's work than the wording the FBI actually used? Does your argument really boil down to they didn't say it the way I would have, so there must be a vast conspiracy?
You're always demanding answers of others so how about answering my question this time? What's so freaking difficult about typing "Candidate #2" in lieu of the wordy and convoluted pablum you approve of?
   144. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5730366)
The man in the mirror...

Just noting that Zonk has no qualms linking & excerpting (#6) from an article that attiributed Roy Cohn's death from AIDS to "a decadent homosexual lifestyle". Quite selective, our supposedly tolerant former refugee.
   145. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5730368)
Accordingly, there's no reason why the application didn't mention that "Candidate #2" and "Political Party #2" (Dems) paid for the research in question.
I repeat: the application says, though not in those exact words, that Steele didn't know that. So Steele couldn't have told the FBI that. So the FBI couldn't have told the judge that.

But again, even if the FBI did know: there is no requirement when applying for a warrant that one give full details such as that. Nunes lied by claiming that the information that it was oppo research was undisclosed, but he also lied by implication in insinuating that such disclosure is required.



EDIT: Since we're going in circles, your response is going be (with an LOL or the like) that the FBI must have known or could have found out. The first is unsupported; the second is both speculation and irrelevant. And then you're going to LOL at that and say that it was crucial that they find out. Which is wrong, at least at that stage of the process.

EDIT 2: And if you meant that it should've been obvious to the FBI, well, then it should be obvious to the judge, in which case it wouldn't be a material omission. And if the judge -- judges, actually -- weren't satisfied, any one of them could have said, "I need to know more about this source before I can assess your application."
   146. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5730370)
You're always demanding answers of others so how about answering mine? What's so freaking difficult about typing "Candidate #2" in lieu of the wordy and convoluted pablum you approve of?


I have no idea why they used that particular English phrasing instead of the other 100 possible ways to say it, but then I don't care since the meaning is clear. I've written and read enough government documents not to expect Shakespeare level word usage. If I can understand what the gist of what the author is trying to say, I'm satisfied. Now I've answered your question, so how about telling me why you think that the specific phrasing indicates a vast conspiracy.

Edit: minor English clean-up
   147. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:32 PM (#5730372)
Jesus JE I can’t address every out of context snippet you cling to because there’s so much BS- we have the redacted Page application, you can look at it. And Graham and Grassley haven’t been as bad as House Republicans but have also been really bad- that’s not a defense.

I'm tellin' ya. He's go exceptionally high quality cement lining his skull.


He's using a technique pioneered by Creationists (which is to say, a representative of the pseudoscience endorsed by the majority of Republicans) called the Gish Gallop. See if this doesn't fit the bill:

Gish Gallop is a technique, named after the creationist Duane Gish who employed it, whereby someone argues a cause by hurling as many different half-truths and no-truths into a very short space of time so that their opponent cannot hope to combat each point in real time. This leaves some points unanswered and allows the original speaker to try and claim his opponent lacks the counter-arguments.
   148. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5730374)
Just noting that Zonk has no qualms linking (#6) to an article that attiributed Roy Cohn's death from AIDS to "a decadent homosexual lifestyle". Quite selective, our supposedly tolerant former refugee.


To be fair - I first read the article on a wedding cake.
   149. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5730375)
I was just reading a book about Jim Jones.

Was it perchance this one? Read it about a year ago -- pretty interesting.


Yes, it was the one by Jeff Guinn. It is pretty good so far. I have read 2 other books by him (one about Bonnie and Clyde, one about the OK Corral and Tombstone) and they are both really interesting.
   150. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:39 PM (#5730377)
They very much wanted to have it reported that the Trump campaign was under investigation.

But failed because the Media is under control of... wait. I was going somewhere with this.

It's hilarious that Juannity is so afraid of the entirety of the MSM being "on the payroll of Fusion GPS," that he constantly has to link to the epochtimes and other outlets nobody has ever heard of. And at the same time believes Fusion GPS does not have enough pull in the media to get a single story published.
   151. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5730379)
I have no idea why they used that particular English phrasing instead of the other 100 possible ways to say it, but then I don't care since meaning is clear. I've written and read enough government documents to not to expect Shakespeare level word usage.
Right, never mind that the Bureau officials used the other, far simpler English phrasing in other parts of the application. And speaking of not caring, yet another appeal to your so-called expertise in government matters unrelated to FISC doesn't move the needle this time.
Now I've answered your question, so how about telling me why you think that the specific phrasing indicates a vast conspiracy.
Already answered.

EDIT: As for "vast conspiracy," like so many others here, I'm sure you enjoy pretending that the turnover of so many senior FBI officials over the past year is either/alternatively much to do about nothing or some massive Trumpian purge.
   152. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:43 PM (#5730380)
It's hilarious that Juannity is so afraid of the entirety of the MSM being "on the payroll of Fusion GPS," that he constantly has to link to the epochtimes and other outlets nobody has ever heard of. And at the same time believes Fusion GPS does not have enough pull in the media to get a single story published.


Oh, and I suppose you don't believe that NASA actually went to the moon in order to coverup the faked moon landing?
   153. BrianBrianson Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:46 PM (#5730381)
At this point, Congress should consider passing legislation mandating paper ballots for all federal elections.


For what it's worth, Canadian elections use paper ballots, with each candidate allowed to have an observer observe all the old ladies counting the ballots. And it seems, a lot of jurisdictions are moving back to paper.

It'll be harder, of course, with the tariffs on Canadian lumber, which makes paper a more economical choice farther north.
   154. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:47 PM (#5730382)
EDIT: As for "vast conspiracy," like so many others here, I'm sure you enjoy pretending that the turnover of senior FBI officials over the past year is either much to do about nothing or some massive Trumpian purge.


Trump doing the firing or demanding via tweets that firings happen is merely coincidental, I'm sure.
   155. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5730383)
Cleveland fan, #146:
I have no idea why they used that particular English phrasing instead of the other 100 possible ways to say it, but then I don't care since the meaning is clear.
...
Edit: minor English clean-up


Why did you use those two particular English phrasings instead of the other 99 possible ways to say it? Hmmm. Very much hmmm.
   156. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5730386)
Why did you use those two particular English phrasings instead of the other 99 possible ways to say it?


He got 99 problems but Deep State ain't one.
   157. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:57 PM (#5730387)
Just noting that Zonk has no qualms linking (#6) to an article that attiributed Roy Cohn's death from AIDS to "a decadent homosexual lifestyle". Quite selective, our supposedly tolerant former refugee.

To be fair - I first read the article on a wedding cake.

I think we both agree that diversion is your best defense.
   158. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5730389)
Yeah, nice TRY, Zonk.
   159. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 04:59 PM (#5730390)
I think we both agree that diversion is your best defense.


Uh-huh.

Now, get back to telling me more about this massive deep state conspiracy... for non-diversion reasons.
   160. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5730398)
Now I've answered your question, so how about telling me why you think that the specific phrasing indicates a vast conspiracy.
Already answered.


Try again, with less tin foil. Just plain English. Who is doing what and for what purpose. It should be easy.
   161. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5730399)
I'm still aghast at the rampant homophobia you hippies engage in.
   162. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:24 PM (#5730401)
Yankee Clapper jumped from Zonk's Politico link in #6 to a completely different link in #144. While accusing Zonk of tolerating or endorsing insensitive wording that wasn't in Zonk's link. It only appeared in the link that was posted by Clapper. Because the text in question had been deleted by Politico on Sunday, the day before Zonk posted it... something made clear in the second sentence of Clapper's own link.

Quite an accusation by Clapper. Seems like it possibly might be unexpected behavior from someone who purports to value meticulous, non-deceptive quotation.
   163. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5730405)
U. of Akron Will Phase Out 80 Liberal Arts Degree Programs and Open New Esports Facilities

(...)Those programs include 10 doctoral programs, 33 master’s programs, 20 bachelor’s programs, and 17 associate degree programs, including both the bachelor’s and master’s degrees in physics and a master’s degree and doctorate in history. (...)Other targeted programs include a Ph.D in electrical engineering and a bachelor's degree in interior design.

(...)Annual operating costs for the esports program will be about $400,000, with an undetermined amount for facility upkeep, plus $70,000 for game licenses, league dues, marketing, and some travel, Knisely said. Those figures don’t include salaries for coaches, coordinators, team managers, and scholarships for players.

(...)Akron is taking esports “seriously,” the university said in a statement on Thursday, by “providing student gamers with esports facilities unlike any other kind in the world.” The centers will open October 5.
   164. -- Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:30 PM (#5730407)
It appears that BTFs D-student is at it again, asking twice for an explanation of the obvious.

They wanted to have an investigation of Trump and his people in the hopes that the wiretaps and other tools would find information they could then leak to the press in the hopes of having him not elected President. That’s what people like Strzok meant when they used the term “insurance policy.”

Not complicated.
   165. perros Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:41 PM (#5730409)
He's using a technique pioneered by Creationists


This gives him far too much credit. Also, I wonder which one(s) of us are Russian trolls/bots prodding whatever the hell we're doing here... Just imagine ten years from now when each person gets his own page tweaked to keep him coming back day after day after day...
   166. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5730411)

EDIT: As for "vast conspiracy," like so many others here, I'm sure you enjoy pretending that the turnover of so many senior FBI officials over the past year is either/alternatively much to do about nothing or some massive Trumpian purge.
You can't argue that we should suspect all the actions undertaken by the FBI/DOJ before 1/20/17 as being corrupt while simultaneously arguing that we have to treat everything done after 1/20/17 as legitimate because all these actors engaged in the aforementioned purge are all FBI/DOJ types and therefore beyond reproach.
   167. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5730412)
Missing from Davo's excerpt:
The 10 Ph.D. programs, 33 master’s programs, 20 bachelor’s programs, and 17 associate-degree programs that will be phased out suffered low enrollment or were duplicates of prosperous programs at other, similar institutions.
(The 1st excerpted paragraph doesn't seem to appear in the linked article)

From reading the article, it seems Akron's been struggling recently:
In 2015 the university’s then president rebranded the institution as Ohio’s “Polytechnic University” of the future, one that uses technology to teach students skills that are highly valued by industry. That president, Scott L. Scarborough, had other big plans. He wanted to head off declining enrollment and alumni donations by expanding Akron’s online teaching. At one point, Scarborough wanted to exponentially expand an undergraduate nursing program from a few dozen students to a few thousand.

But things didn’t go according to plan. Branding Akron as Ohio’s polytechnic university provoked a protest petition with more than 10,000 signatures. The Akron faculty voted repeatedly to express no confidence in Scarborough after he failed to raise enrollment numbers and donations, and after the Board of Trustees voted to lay off staff members. Scarborough resigned abruptly, in May 2016, less than two years after he took office.
   168. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5730413)

I have no idea why they used that particular English phrasing instead of the other 100 possible ways to say it, but then I don't care since the meaning is clear.
Again, Occam's razor says that they didn't say Candidate #2 or Party #2 or Campaign #2 or the like because they didn't know that to be true.
   169. Greg K Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:51 PM (#5730417)
U. of Akron Will Phase Out 80 Liberal Arts Degree Programs and Open New Esports Facilities

In possibly related news, Martin Wainwright (a history prof at the University of Akron) is famous* for creating a history course that is centred around playing video games. Phasing out the grad program in history is obviously a crime against humanity though.

*Well, famous among people who are interested in using video games to teach history.
   170. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:53 PM (#5730419)
When the revolution eats its own...

Park Slope being shamed into radical school diversity plan:
The de Blasio administration is guilting parents in ultra-liberal Park Slope into swallowing a radical public school “diversity plan” — suggesting that those who disagree with the scheme are akin to white supremacists in the Deep South.

After a series of workshops and meetings over the summer, the city is poised to green-light a drastic revamping of District 15 middle-school admissions aimed at spurring racial and socioeconomic integration.

Parents say they support diversity, but some are afraid of being called bigoted if they question or criticize the plan — which would eliminate all admission criteria based on academic achievement and reserve 52 percent of seats for low-income, immigrant and homeless kids.

In a June 20 “community presentation,” a slide-show and report prepared by a Department of Education consultant compared efforts to enact the changes to civil rights struggles during the 1950s and 60s.

Images in the report include a 1954 banner headline on the US Supreme Court barring racial segregation in public schools.

It’s followed by a photo showing two smiling black girls holding signs, one reading “Integration is an Education.” The next photo shows an angry mob of white women with signs such as “SAVE SEGREGATION VOTE,” and a scowling white boy waving a sign reading “All I Want For Christmas is a Clean White School.”

One Park Slope mom, whose fifth grader would be affected by the diversity plan, said she was galled because it suggested that any critique would be painted in the worst light.

“If you’re opposed to this plan, you’re a racist from 1950s Alabama,” the mom complained. ...

Some parents say the schools should keep at least some admission criteria to reward hard work and punctuality.

But they fear speaking up since a heated Upper West Side meeting last April where some parents blasted a diversity plan for their schools.

Carranza then retweeted a news story titled: “Wealthy white Manhattan parents angrily rant against plan to bring more black kids to their schools.”

“No one wants to be ‘rich white person number two’ being publicly shamed,” a Brooklyn fifth-grader’s dad told The Post.

Carranza also criticized the city’s admission practices at a conference last month, blasting the “system of selectivity, the system of privilege.” ...

Brooklyn parents said a June workshop on the diversity proposal was “more like a rally, so there was very little debate,” as one put it.

“They’ve covered themselves by having these ‘community outreach’ efforts, but they’re all in the echo chamber telling each other how awesome this plan is and it’s all been orchestrated by the DOE.”

The tone changed last Tuesday at a meeting called by City Councilman Brad Lander at the Brooklyn Public Library on Grand Army Plaza. About 175 parents attended, including many critical of the plan.

But after hailing the changes, Lander refused to take questions from the audience, such as how the DOE would measure their kids’ academic success.

Instead, he broke up the crowd into discussion groups and ducked out of the room to speak to parents individually.

“It was like an Iranian presidential election — it didn’t matter what you said or did,” the fifth-grader’s dad said.

“I find it really distressing to be totally disenfranchised from my child’s education.”

Some called Lander a hypocrite because his two children attended MS 51, which is currently made up of 67 percent white and Asian kids; 28 percent are black and Hispanic.
NIMBY lefties are so adorable when made to eat their own #### sandwiches.
   171. perros Posted: August 20, 2018 at 05:55 PM (#5730420)
Missing from Davo's excerpt:


That universities are obsolete beyond the role of corporations extracting massive govt-subsidized profit from an already poorly-educated public?
   172. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:02 PM (#5730422)
Yankee Clapper jumped from Zonk's Politico link in #6 to a completely different link in #144. While accusing Zonk of tolerating or endorsing insensitive wording that wasn't in Zonk's link. It only appeared in the link that was posted by Clapper. Because the text in question had been deleted by Politico on Sunday, the day before Zonk posted it... something made clear in the second sentence of Clapper's own link.

Quite an accusation by Clapper. Seems like it possibly might be unexpected behavior from someone who purports to value meticulous, non-deceptive quotation.


Dishonesty from a Trumpkin?

That doesn't sound right... there must be a more innocent explanation.

Maybe he thinks I'm an ad server.
   173. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:07 PM (#5730423)
Yankee Clapper jumped from Zonk's Politico link in #6 to a completely different link in #144. Then he accused Zonk of tolerating or endorsing insensitive wording that wasn't in Zonk's link. It only appeared in the link that was posted by Clapper. Because the text in question had been deleted by Politico on Sunday, the day before Zonk posted it... something made clear in Clapper's own link.

Typical Gonfalon, as anyone can see by clicking the links in #s 6 &144;. I linked to an article that criticized the Politico article for making the "decadent homosexual lifestyle" comment. It was originally published about 30 minutes before Zonk's post and inow includes a series of tweets that overlap Zonk's post that criticize the Politico article for its homophobic content. Those tweets don't mention any subsequent edit. The article does criticize Politico for not acknowledging the earlier material when it eventually edited the story, but it's not indicated if that was in the original article or added in the several apparent updates. There's no indication that Politico's edit came before Zonk's post, and he hasn't made that claim himself. Unfortunately, neither the original version of the article, nor that currently online contains any date stamp beyond the original posting date. Politico hasn't been very transparent, but Gonfalon's claim that the material wasn't in the article when it was posted here seems like conjecture.
   174. perros Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:07 PM (#5730424)
NIMBY lefties are so adorable when they step in their own ####.


White progressives cause the most daily damage to people of color. Though give de Blassio credit for bringing it all back home to his neighborhood.
   175. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5730427)
Clapper--
The three words missing from your whirligig #173 are "I apologize, Zonk."
   176. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:34 PM (#5730430)
Typical Gonfalon, as anyone can see by clicking the links in #s 6 &144;. I linked to an article that criticized the Politico article for making the "decadent homosexual lifestyle" comment. It was originally published about 30 minutes before Zonk's post and inow includes a series of tweets that overlap Zonk's post that criticize the Politico article for its homophobic content. Those tweets don't mention any subsequent edit. The article does criticize Politico for not acknowledging the earlier material when it eventually edited the story, but it's not indicated if that was in the original article or added in the several apparent updates. There's no indication that Politico's edit came before Zonk's post, and he hasn't made that claim himself. Unfortunately, neither the original version of the article, nor that currently online contains any date stamp beyond the original posting date. Politico hasn't been very transparent, but Gonfalon's claim that the material wasn't in the article when it was posted here seems like conjecture.


Well, fortunately, through the wonders of a maxed browser cache allocation - it turns out that I can confirm that the offending language was not present in the version I read (the first couple paragraphs of before deciding I liked the McCarthy comparison and posting that).

Comparing my cached version to the one now online - I can also confirm that the "note" atop of the page is also new, as are, apparently, some minor changes.... a new comma in the 6th paragraph... the elimination of a stray "ever" ("never, ever, ever" to just "never, ever") further down...

However, because I respect the newly minted SJWs so much and applaud the work they do - so long as such issues aren't pastry-related - do consider me duly chastened.

Going forward, I will endeavor to link to only those things whose complete digital history I can trace from publish to edit to archival.
   177. perros Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:41 PM (#5730432)

Going forward, I will endeavor to link to only those things whose complete digital history I can trace from publish to edit to archival.


Unpossible.
   178. Lassus Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:42 PM (#5730433)
If anyone wants to get beyond JE's positively dripping with "LOLOLOLOL LIBERALS EAT SHIT - insert donkey noise -" substance (you know, the kind he craves from others) post on the schools, here's a separate article: Ambitious Brooklyn School Desegregation Plan Stirs Excitement, Faces Hurdles

It's a much longer, much more in-depth, and much more balanced read than what the Shrieking Joker seems to think is well-represented by the fine accomplishment of finding three parents out of 20,000 or so in the district who.... disagreed(!) with a schooling plan(!!) and were afraid(!!!), so afraid.
“Given our current political and social climate, it is imperative that each and every one of us do our part to advocate and reaffirm the tenet that every child has the right to a safe, inclusive and equitable education,” said Neal Zephyrin, a member of the working group and a representative of the district’s Community Education Council, in a speech following the announcement of the recommendations on June 20. “The D15 diversity plan is not about moving bodies around to get the right racial rubric … It involves taking a holistic approach to how we integrate our middle school student body.”
Integration advocates point to studies that indicate the benefits of racial and economic integration in schools. As documented by The Century Foundation, a plethora of research suggests Black and Latino students perform better in diverse schools, largely because integrated schooling leads to improved access to resources, quality teachers and more. But a growing body of research also focuses on the pedagogical value of diversity for all students and especially White students: in integrated classrooms, students think more critically, consider new perspectives, and learn to overcome implicit bias, according to the research.

While the process officially kicked off with stakeholder meetings in August 2017, the first public workshop wasn’t held into nearly February of this year. The initiative involved 12 working group meetings, over 80 community conversations, and four public workshops.

The fear of dissent - so, so, real.
Some residents of the district might disagree with the elimination of screens. According to the results of a survey e-mailed to families in District 15 in June, 58 percent of those surveyed still believe it is appropriate to use screens on the middle school level—though that percentage might reflect the disproportionate number of residents from Park Slope who took the survey. Park Slope residents made up 37 percent of those who responded to the survey, and 62 percent of them expressed support for the use of screens. By contrast, only 42 percent of Sunset Park residents said it was appropriate to use screens. 78 percent of respondents in the district expressed support for giving weighted preference to students from vulnerable categories.

“Some form of screening should be there … It needs to matter that kids make an effort,” Emil Lanne, a resident of Windsor Terrace, told City Limits at the June 20 workshop. He said his 4th grade daughter works hard in school and argued that demonstrations of effort need to count somewhat at the middle school level because they will matter greatly later on in a student’s life. “That’s not rewarded now. It’s all a lottery. I get why they’re doing it but it’s unfair.”
It’s not just some White affluent parents who maintain an interest in screens. Feryal Abuhammoud, a Sunset Park parent and a member of the working group, says she thinks having some kind of screen can be a good way to incentivize all students to work hard. Sunset Park teachers and parents Jessica Xu and Qiong Chan told City Limits they opposed eliminating screens because they feared high-achieving students would not otherwise be challenged.

To address the latter, the plan recommends support for teachers to adopt proven models for teaching students of mixed academic levels within one classroom.
That's only some of the article. There are also charts and further quotes and links to a study.

Too bad they don't have the high journalistic standards that maybe the NY POST has or the Epoch Times might apply to such events.

   179. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 06:56 PM (#5730436)
If anyone wants to get beyond JE's positively dripping with "LOLOLOLOL LIBERALS EAT #### - insert donkey noise -" substance (you know, the kind he craves from others) post on the schools, here's a separate article: Ambitious Brooklyn School Desegregation Plan Stirs Excitement, Faces Hurdles
Congrats, Lassus. Your link takes us to a yoga classes bulletin from 2017. Just curious: Did these instructors allow entry to strange men from upstate wearing cargo shorts overflowing with nickels and dimes?
   180. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:06 PM (#5730438)
Reuters reporter Jeff Mason:
Exclusive: Donald Trump tells Reuters he has chosen not to be involved in Mueller probe but is "totally allowed" to be if he wanted to.
"I've decided to stay out. Now, I don't have to stay out, as you know. I can go in and I could... do whatever, I could run it if I want."
   181. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:14 PM (#5730441)
Chelsea Clinton: I definitely may run for office:
The daughter of former president Bill and 2016 hopeful Hillary told the Edinburgh Book Festival that a bid for now would be a "definite no" but "a definite maybe in the future because who knows what the future is going to bring?"

Ms Clinton, who was promoting her children's book on women facing adversity, said she "abhorred" the current president, but said she was immensely grateful for what her congresswoman and senators were doing to "stop him at every point".

If that were to change, however, she suggested a political future may be on the cards.

"If my city councillor were to retire, if my congresswoman were to retire, my senators, and I thought that I could make a positive impact, then I think I would really have to ask my answer to that question," she said.
When asked for comment, Rep. Nita Lowey, who in 2000 was readying a run for the Senate until Hillary ###### her over and whose seat Chelsea covets, responded: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
   182. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:19 PM (#5730445)
Love being sane and smashing letters on my keyboard with caps lock on.
   183. Stormy JE Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:22 PM (#5730446)
Still no verdict in the Manafort trial.
   184. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:30 PM (#5730448)
Still no verdict in the Manafort trial.


I imagine the uncertainty of knowing whether you'll be arguing "So what? Nothing to do with Trump!" or "Ha! This proves Trump is innocent of all allegations" is killing you.
   185. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5730449)
NY Times:
Trump Lawyers’ Sudden Realization: They Don’t Know What Don McGahn Told Mueller’s Team

President Trump’s lawyers do not know just how much the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, told the special counsel’s investigators during months of interviews, a lapse that has contributed to a growing recognition that an early strategy of full cooperation with the inquiry was a potentially damaging mistake.

...Mr. McGahn’s lawyer has offered only a limited accounting of what Mr. McGahn told the investigators, according to two people close to the president. That has prompted concern among Mr. Trump’s advisers that Mr. McGahn’s statements could help serve as a key component for a damning report by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, which the Justice Department could send to Congress, according to two people familiar with the discussions.

Mr. Trump’s lawyers realized on Saturday that they had not been provided a full accounting after The New York Times published an article describing Mr. McGahn’s extensive cooperation with Mr. Mueller’s office. After Mr. McGahn was initially interviewed by the special counsel’s office in November, Mr. Trump’s lawyers never asked for a complete description of what Mr. McGahn had said, according to a person close to the president.

Mr. McGahn’s lawyer, William A. Burck, gave the president’s lawyers a short overview of the interview but few details, and he did not inform them of what Mr. McGahn said in subsequent interactions with the investigators, according to a person close to Mr. Trump. Mr. McGahn and Mr. Burck feared that Mr. Trump was setting up Mr. McGahn to take the blame for any possible wrongdoing, so they embraced the opening to cooperate fully with Mr. Mueller in an effort to demonstrate that Mr. McGahn had done nothing wrong. On Sunday, Rudolph W. Giuliani appeared to acknowledge that he had only a partial understanding of what Mr. McGahn had revealed. Mr. Giuliani said his knowledge was secondhand.

.......Mr. McGahn, who as White House counsel is not the president’s personal lawyer, has repeatedly made clear to the president that his role is as a protector of the presidency, not of Mr. Trump personally.

..........The article set off a scramble on Saturday among Mr. Trump’s lawyers and advisers. The president, sequestered at his private golf club in Bedminster, N.J., solicited opinions from a small group of advisers on the possible repercussions from the article. The president ordered Mr. Giuliani to tell reporters that the article was wrong, but Mr. Giuliani did not go that far in his television appearances. The report by The Times also reignited a debate about whether Mr. Trump had been given bad advice by his former lawyers Mr. Dowd and Ty Cobb to allow full cooperation with Mr. Mueller’s team, including by waiving attorney-client privilege. Mr. Dowd and Mr. Cobb believed that the cooperation would help prove that the president had done nothing wrong and bring a swifter end to the investigation.

.............Although Mr. Trump’s lawyers have little idea what Mr. McGahn told investigators, they said on Saturday and Sunday that Mr. McGahn had helped the president.

..........Mr. Trump was rattled by the Times report, according to people familiar with his thinking. The president, who is said to be obsessed with the role that John W. Dean, the White House counsel to President Richard M. Nixon, played as an informant during Watergate, was jolted by the notion that he did not know what Mr. McGahn had shared.

...........Last fall, Mr. McGahn believed that he was being set up to be blamed for any wrongdoing by the president in part because of an article published in The Times in September, which described a conversation that a reporter had overheard between Mr. Dowd and Mr. Cobb. In the conversation — which occurred over lunch at a table on the sidewalk outside the Washington steakhouse B.L.T. — Mr. Cobb discussed the White House’s production of documents to Mr. Mueller’s office. Mr. Cobb talked about how Mr. McGahn was opposed to cooperation and had documents locked in his safe.

After the account of the lunch conversation was published, Mr. McGahn became convinced that Mr. Cobb believed that he was hiding documents. Concerned that he would be blamed, he decided to try to demonstrate to Mr. Mueller that he and other White House lawyers had done nothing wrong.
   186. perros Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:36 PM (#5730450)
Jason may be a turd in the bucket (not to mention insane in this glass house), but he does accurately zero in on liberal hypocrisy (while revealing the utter corruption of his side as a bonus). Brennan is a self-serving menace to democracy, Chelsea Clinton is an airhead, and the Park Slopers refusal to face the racists aren't backwards hicks from the past but their neighbors,

What's shameful about acknowledging one's own shortcomings? Accept the truth and Jason has nothing left but his own stark ugliness.
   187. perros Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:39 PM (#5730452)
Thanks for reposting the NYT piece, Bubble. Pretty damned delicious irony that McGahn was against cooporation but overruled.
   188. perros Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:42 PM (#5730453)
Manafort could walk because government prosecutors evidently thought they were dealing with someone who could't fight back... or more simply the whole case was brought to get Trump.

Not that he's not guilty as hell, but when the government's case relies upon the testimony of someone admittedly sleazier...
   189. -- Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:53 PM (#5730456)
If anyone wants to get beyond JE's positively dripping with "LOLOLOLOL LIBERALS EAT #### - insert donkey noise -" substance (you know, the kind he craves from others) post on the schools, here's a separate article: Ambitious Brooklyn School Desegregation Plan Stirs Excitement, Faces Hurdles


Anyone who refers to the Brooklyn or NYC schools as "segregated" might as well step into the booth to be fitted for the red wig, nose, and clownshoes.
   190. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:54 PM (#5730458)
When asked for comment, Rep. Nita Lowey, who in 2000 was readying a run for the Senate until Hillary ###### her over and whose seat Chelsea covets . . .

Like many House Democrats, Lowey is of advanced age (81), so even if she's inclined to emulate Justice Ginsburg, she may not be able to personally block Chelsea's designs on her seat too much longer. Lowey's held the seat since 1989, and I find it difficult to believe all the potential Democratic candidates with bottled-up ambitions would step aside for Chelsea's coronation. I think Chelsea's candidacy would be something of a paper tiger, but perhaps I'm underestimating the degree to which Democratic primary voters remain under the Clintons' spell.
   191. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:01 PM (#5730459)
If anyone wants to get beyond JE's positively dripping with "LOLOLOLOL LIBERALS EAT #### - insert donkey noise -" substance (you know, the kind he craves from others) post on the schools, here's a separate article: Ambitious Brooklyn School Desegregation Plan Stirs Excitement, Faces Hurdles

Congrats, Lassus. Your link takes us to a yoga classes bulletin from 2017. Just curious: Did these instructors allow entry to strange men from upstate wearing cargo shorts overflowing with nickels and dimes?

Here's the article that Lassus meant to link to in #178:

Ambitious Brooklyn School Desegregation Plan Stirs Excitement, Faces Hurdles

Updated total of misdirected or dead end / blank links: JE 29, Lassus 1.
   192. -- Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:07 PM (#5730461)
And now that we have reached the point wherein Park Slope and UWS parents who express support for screened middle and high schools are deemed "racists" by the fanatics, we can understand why the similarly-veined gnat stings and flea bites of the usual suspects aimed in this direction are merely chuckled away.
   193. Lassus Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:19 PM (#5730466)
Odd. My bad. I usually check my work, but had to run errands. Thank you, Andy.

I can see I got the usual from the DeathSubtanceEater.


wherein Park Slope and UWS parents who express support for screened middle and high schools are deemed "racists" by the fanatics,

As reported by the NY Post? POINTLESS REPLY FOUND IN LAWYERLESS THREAD
   194. -- Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:21 PM (#5730467)
As reported by the NY Post?


No, there were also reports about similar plans in the main UWS district a few months back. This isn't a new story.

And, yes, the NY Post quoting actual parents, is a perfectly valid news source. (*) I don't do tribalism.

And, again, anyone who would call the NYC schools "segregated" has zero credibility. It's a clownshoes idea.

(*) And if you don't think a proposal to convert screened schools to quota schools wouldn't cause public school parents to say the kind of things they're quoted by the NYP as saying, you're utterly delusional.
   195. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:26 PM (#5730468)
Hey, Clapper, you mistakenly posted some bullshit about a speculative matchup that might happen in 2020 or 2022 or never, instead of an apology to Zonk for what you incorrectly said today, just four hours ago.

Since you came out strongly against "conjecture" today, I'm sure your lack of an apology was just another error. Fix it when you get a chance, buddy!
   196. -- Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:28 PM (#5730470)
Hey, Clapper, you mistakenly posted some bullshit about a speculative matchup that might happen in 2020 or 2022 or never, instead of an apology to Zonk for what you incorrectly said today, just four hours ago.

Since you also came out strongly against conjecture today, I assume your lack of an apology was just another error. Fix it when you get a chance, buddy!


Obsessive ersatz victory declarer obsessively seeks ersatz apology.

Film at 11.
   197. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:31 PM (#5730472)
Granted, I haven't geotagged all the regular OTP participants -- but if memory serves, I believe the three folks closest to this vile Park Slope happen to be Juannity, Ray, and SBB.

Maybe this isn't just a funny coincidence.
   198. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:37 PM (#5730476)
Magic
   199. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:38 PM (#5730477)
S-B-B, #196:
ersatz... ersatz


The whole point of a Word Of The Day Calendar is that you get to turn to the new page every day.

There, I've replied to you. You were included!
   200. perros Posted: August 20, 2018 at 08:44 PM (#5730480)
Zats
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