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Monday, August 20, 2018

OTP 2018 August 20: Sick of divisive summertime politics? Baseball’s thrills offer an escape

First, things starting with the letter “L” come to mind when thinking about this summer.
“The Summer of Lying?” Nah, let’s keep this positive.

It seems like certain politicians and college coaches have been competing in a never-ending race to the bottom of the dishonesty cesspool.
“The Summer of LeBron?” Maybe. But no, LeBron James doesn’t need any more attention.

But his decision to build a new public school for at-risk kids in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, and cover all student costs should be commended by everyone, including the U.S. Secretary of Education and her boss.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:45 AM | 2230 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   1801. Dan The Mediocre is one of "the rest" Posted: August 25, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5733533)
Flip
   1802. perros Posted: August 25, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5733535)
   1803. perros Posted: August 25, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5733536)
Eight out of 10 ‘stranger’ rapes in Sweden are carried out by migrants


There can be reasonable discussions about immigration control, particularly in countries the population size of our big metro areas, and as Dog points out, there are instinctual responses to stranger danger.

But let's be perfectly clear: that Daily Mail link is vile propaganda for the dehumanization of immigrants and minority populations in the White West. Just like Trump, the first illustration for that article are random immigrants being associated with rapists. This kinda evil #### promoted by the usual GOP suspects here are used to bolster the case for family separation and worse. A large majority of GOPers, led by Trump, see immigrants as an infestation, part of over 40 percent of Americans who now feel the same.

Turning that xenophobic instinct into eliminationist rhetoric and policy has bad historical precedent. Stand against this evil now while there's still time to arrest it.
   1804. perros Posted: August 25, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5733539)
Trump rode the "immigrants are rapists" wave to the White House. Making the claim look right probably doesn't help


Davo making the case for right and left meeting like a horseshoe. This is why I suggested taking a break and reading some critical theory as to how we all internalize these oppressive, coplike structures that do harm no matter one's good intentions. Or more simply, making terrible arguments gives ammo to one's opponents.
   1805. OCF Posted: August 25, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5733544)
From my neighborhood, a political yard/fence sign, mass produced and with the candidate's website at the bottom:

In God We Trust
(name of candidate)
Congress
He's one of us

All, right, exactly what is "He's one of us" supposed to mean, anyway? And in what sense is the incumbent Democrat supposed to not be "one of us"? I'll tell you one of the places my mind went to: I don't know the actual religious affiliation of the incumbent D, but his name looks like it could be Jewish.

At least I'm pretty confident that it's not going to work. 538 has the race as >99.9% D with a predicted margin in the neighborhood of 2-1.
   1806. DavidFoss Posted: August 25, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5733549)
Oh, come on, Davo is obviously trolling, but I suppose Trumpkins need a strawman to argue against after last week.

It is a white nationalist fantasy to imagine how idyllic Sweden would be without immigration, but Sweden is still are few dozen slots ahead of the US on all the 'country safety index' rankings.
   1807. perros Posted: August 25, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5733551)
obviously trolling


There's a huge ####### problem labeling somebody as a rapist before he rapes. Like Ben said, I don't think this little men's club wants to go there.
   1808. perros Posted: August 25, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5733552)
Saw Trump 2020 stickers for the first time this week. Plus a simple TRUMP over Build That Wall.
   1809. Omineca Greg Posted: August 25, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5733556)
Swedes are the original SJWs.

No, really.

They don't fight in physical wars, but instead they apply their resources to helping nudge the world closer to their worldview through diplomacy, soft power, largesse. You have to understand this to make sense of their migrant policy. There are those Swedes who see taking in troubled peoples like a war; it's expensive, it has risks, and it's not necessarily easy, but it's the moral thing to do. Instead of sending armies, their contribution will take the form of rescuing people. The States does both, sends military out to solve problems, while at the same time taking in refugees, but the will...I don't know...the will to suffer as the newbies get assimilated both culturally and economically isn't there to the same degree as it is in Sweden.

Of course, there's divergent opinion among Swedish citizens in how much they should be contributing to fix this worldwide crisis. And the upcoming election (what is it, September 9th?) will show which way the vinden blåser. The Sweden Democrats are bad ####### news; the alt-right is just playing around compared to these guys, they're full blown Nazis from top to bottom. If they make serious headway, that really means something. It means that there's a huge cultural divide in Sweden over what their role is in the world, all the way from pole (Come on people now, smile on your bror) to ############# pole (bara ett folk, bara ett imperium, bara en führer... ummmm... far...they meant to say far)
   1810. zenbitz Posted: August 25, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5733559)
I can't believe we went a page and a half with no one calling out the Daily Mail for STRANGER rapes. That is some sick xenophobic ####.

   1811. Morty Causa Posted: August 25, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5733564)
Hasn't England in recent years had a spate of scandals involving sex rings run by immigrants, recent immigrants, Muslim immigrants, who expressly targeted young Briton girls on a racial/ethnic basis? They're not our kind so we can ####, trash, and degrade them, as one culprit put it.
   1812. perros Posted: August 25, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5733566)
Swedes are the original SJWs


Or like Erland Josephson in Offret.
   1813. Greg K Posted: August 25, 2018 at 12:45 PM (#5733568)
They don't fight in physical wars, but instead they apply their resources to helping nudge the world closer to their worldview through diplomacy, soft power, largesse.

You speak as though Gustavus Adolphus had been dead for centuries!
   1814. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 12:51 PM (#5733571)
You're missing JE's point, which isn't about the merits of moving the Embassy to Jerusalem, but that Rubin has been so focused on criticizing Trump that she has abandoned many of her own positions, such as favoring moving the Embassy.


Opposition to Trump -- to virtually everything Trump says and does -- is a religion. Trump could say that cancer is bad and they'll oppose it. (Remember when he said MS-13 were animals and his statement was met with rage?)
   1815. Greg K Posted: August 25, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5733573)
Hasn't England in recent years had a spate of scandals involving sex rings run by immigrants, recent immigrants, Muslim immigrants, who expressly targeted young Briton girls on a racial/ethnic basis? They're not our kind so we can ####, trash, and degrade them, as one culprit put it.


You are probably thinking of Rotherham and Rochdale. [although there are others]

Subsequent investigations have shown local authorities were slow to listen to complaints for a variety of reasons (bias against working class victims, and fear of alienating large numbers of Islamic voters by appearing racist among the hot button ones).

In fact, the Rochdale case was in the news a couple weeks ago, as a British court rescinded the citizenship of some of the ring-leaders.

I'm not 100% sure on white women/girls being specifically targeted. I have read arguments that we just have a better handle on the white victims because they were more willing to come forward.
   1816. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5733574)
Opposition to Trump -- to virtually everything Trump says and does -- is a religion.


More projection from the Little Lord.
   1817. BDC Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:01 PM (#5733577)
You speak as though Gustavus Adolphus had been dead for centuries!


There's a massive fortress on the Danish island of Bornholm, with the imposing name of Hammershus ("house of the hammer"). I had always been told that it was built by an Archbishop of Lund in the 12th or 13th century. Lund, in southern Sweden, today is a sleepy pleasant little university/cathedral town, and you can no more imagine its bishop in armor in the keep of a castle than you can imagine him surfing in Thailand … probably much sooner the latter. I was disappointed to learn on my last trip there that Hammershus may have been built by some king of Denmark instead. Battlin' Swedish bishops are fun to conjure up.

   1818. manchestermets Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5733579)
I'm not 100% sure on white women/girls being specifically targeted. I have read arguments that we just have a better handle on the white victims because they were more willing to come forward.


Yes - this is an interview with a non-white victim. The fact that one of the culprits had a citizenship to revoke casts doubts on the "recent immigrants" part of Morty's description of the events too. Terrible crimes happened, and as usual terrible people seized on them for political capital while clearly not actually caring less about the victims.
   1819. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5733580)
All, right, exactly what is "He's one of us" supposed to mean, anyway?


The wedding banquet scene from Freaks comes immediately to mind.
   1820. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:09 PM (#5733581)
Sigh, one more time:

1) What Cohen testified to about Trump is certainly news.
2) What Cohen testified to about Trump does not disprove or refute the CNN story we've been discussing.
3) What Lanny Davis now says does not not disprove or refute the CNN story we've been discussing.

CNN's report was not "Cohen told Congress that Trump knew." If that had been CNN's report, it would have to be retracted. CNN's report was "Cohen is going to tell Mueller that Trump knew." That may be correct, it may be incorrect, but it does not need to be retracted based on what we currently know.

EDIT: And Davis is not saying what you're implying he's saying. He is not saying, "Cohen isn't going to tell Mueller that Trump knew about the meeting." He is saying, "I don't know whether Trump knew about the meeting."


There's a lot of verbiage here from David that distracts from the point, which is that there's no indication from Lanny Davis or anyone else that Cohen is now prepared to tell Mueller that Trump knew about the Don Jr meeting -- and in fact there's strong indication that Cohen is NOT going to tell Mueller that.

Quoting:

08.21.18
Senate Intel Committee Statement on Testimony of Michael Cohen

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr (R-NC) and Vice Chairman Mark Warner (D-VA) released the following statement:

“We have obviously followed today’s reporting about Michael Cohen with great interest. He appears to be pleading guilty to very serious charges, however, we have no insight into any agreements he and his legal team have allegedly reached with prosecutors in New York.

“What we can say is that we recently reengaged with Mr. Cohen and his team following press reports that suggested he had advance knowledge of the June 2016 meeting between campaign officials and Russian lawyers at Trump Tower. Mr. Cohen had testified before the Committee that he was not aware of the meeting prior to its disclosure in the press last summer. As such, the Committee inquired of Mr. Cohen’s legal team as to whether Mr. Cohen stood by his testimony. They responded that he did stand by his testimony.

“We hope that today’s developments and Mr. Cohen’s plea agreement will not preclude his appearance before our Committee as needed for our ongoing investigation.”


And here's Davis on the CNN story:

"It was painful. We were not the source, we could not confirm, and we could not correct. We had to be silent because of the sensitivity needed in the middle of a criminal investigation."

So, no, not the slightest indication from Lanny Davis that Cohen is prepared to tell Mueller that Trump knew about the Don Jr meeting -- in fact, quite the opposite, unless our very own David is prepared to argue that Lanny Davis is not part of "Mr. Cohen's legal team" as referred to in the above statement. That's the news, and so focusing on the CNN sideshow is, well, a sideshow. Remember all the cheerleading here last month that Cohen was going to tell Mueller that Trump knew about the Don Jr meeting? It was all fake news -- swallowed whole by the usual suspects.
   1821. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5733582)
Subsequent investigations have shown local authorities were slow to listen to complaints for a variety of reasons (bias against working class victims, and fear of alienating large numbers of Islamic voters by appearing racist among the hot button ones).

A "cover up" is the term one would normally associate with such official behavior.
   1822. Greg K Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5733583)
A "cover up" is the term one would normally associate with such official behavior.

Yes, that is the most troubling aspect of the scandals in my mind.
   1823. Davo Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5733585)
When JE links to a white nationalist site talking about how Arab men are all rapists, and when Sweden let them come to their country they raped all the Swedish women.....I think rather than point out the flaws in the study (which he will ignore, because facts don’t matter), it’s better to get him to state what policy he would like (as a response to the “all Arabs are rapists” report), and what the consequences of that policy would be.

And it’s this: If every single country in the world Built A Wall to keep those rapey Arabs out, it would not reduce incidences of rape by one iota. (In fact, if JE really believes what he says, it would dramatically increase incidences of rape, since fewer Arabs would now be able to curb their “inherent rapist tendencies” through contact with the civilized West.)

So this has nothing to do with stopping rape. It’s just about having fewer of those rape victims be white.

Which is a perfectly reasonable policy to support if you’re a white supremacist!!!
   1824. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5733587)
And as for backpedaling, again, if Davis wasn't one of CNN's sources, then it's not noteworthy to them. What you call backpedaling does not involve Davis saying, "No, Cohen isn't going to say that." That would be noteworthy,


And that is precisely what the Senate Intelligence Committee statement says. They said that they checked with Cohen's legal team and were told that Cohen stands by his testimony. Now, that could change in the future, but that's where we are now, and so yes, right now the story IS, in fact, that Cohen's legal team, of which Lanny Davis is a part, is saying, "No, Cohen isn't going to say that."

though not because it's backpedaling but because it's an inherently noteworthy statement. All Davis said is, "I don't have independent knowledge of that."


No.

"As such, the Committee inquired of Mr. Cohen’s legal team as to whether Mr. Cohen stood by his testimony. They responded that he did stand by his testimony."

And that's what Davis seems to concede here:

"It was painful. We were not the source, we could not confirm, and we could not correct. We had to be silent because of the sensitivity needed in the middle of a criminal investigation."

You'll argue that he's not conceding it, which on the face of his statement if you squint you can see some tiny foothold for your argument.... which is washed away by the senate intelligence committee statement.
   1825. Omineca Greg Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5733588)
   1826. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:29 PM (#5733589)
He is saying, "I don't know whether Trump knew about the meeting."

Who is Michael Cohen's attorney, David?


Lanny Davis. Who was not involved back in 2016 when the meeting happened, and therefore has no firsthand knowledge.


He certainly has firsthand knowledge of what his client has told him. And based on that -- firsthand -- knowledge he and his legal team told the senate intelligence committee that Cohen stands by his testimony that he was not aware of the meeting prior to its disclosure in the press.

Now, could Cohen tell Mueller that while _Cohen_ wasn't aware in advance of the meeting, Cohen later learned that _Trump_ was aware? That would contradict the entire CNN narrative, which was very fact specific:

“Cohen alleges that he was present, along with several others, when Trump was informed of the Russians’ offer by Trump Jr. By Cohen’s account,” the report said. “Trump approved going ahead with the meeting with the Russians, according to sources.” They also wrote that the sources said Cohen didn’t “have evidence, such as audio recordings, to corroborate his claim, but he is willing to attest to his account.”
   1827. BDC Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:32 PM (#5733590)
Davo, your argument gets worse the more you elaborate it. You were having better success with the claim that Speed Racer was a greater film than Lawrence of Arabia.
   1828. perros Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5733594)
Hasn't England in recent years had a spate of scandals involving sex rings run by immigrants, recent immigrants, Muslim immigrants, who expressly targeted young Briton girls on a racial/ethnic basis? They're not our kind so we can ####, trash, and degrade them, as one culprit put it.


Isn't this the English class system in action? Since when did authorities anywhere give a #### about throwaway teens? Listen to women's complaints? And let's pretend Jimmy Saville didn't exist.

One huuuge assumption on these threads is that police investigate crimes uniformly, instead of serving their primary purpose of keeping the social order intact. Hence beyond the easy pickings of petty crime, the stuff that primarily draws attention are violations of that order, and violence aimed up the social ladder.
   1829. perros Posted: August 25, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5733595)
On today's NYT The Daily podcast, they focused on 2018 as the second wave of women gaining political office, this time due to a combination of Trump and Me Too. The first wave was in 1992 as a result of the Clarence Thomas hearings, and its pathetic outcome.

Noted was the fact only 19 percent of Congress is female, same percentage as Afghanistan's national assembly.
   1830. Davo Posted: August 25, 2018 at 02:34 PM (#5733598)
   1831. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5733601)
Interesting to see the suggestion that violent criminals be spread out amongst all countries and it's evil to do otherwise.


   1832. Hot Wheeling American Posted: August 25, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5733602)
@thehill
JUST IN: Trump met with promoter of "QAnon" conspiracy theory in Oval Office


@willsommer
QAnon is not just a harmless weird thing. Multiple QAnon believers have been in stand-offs with police. Trump meeting this guy gives the whole group credibility, and further unmoors a segment of voters from reality.


Remember when Juannity tried to deflect and claim Q was a way fringy belief? What else is Juannity lying about??
   1833. . Posted: August 25, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5733604)
Interesting to see the suggestion that violent criminals be spread out amongst all countries and it's evil to do otherwise.


Worse before better.
   1834. perros Posted: August 25, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5733606)
More news from The Hill:


A grim seven days for President Trump and his allies was capped on Friday by news that Allen Weisselberg, the chief financial officer of the Trump Organization, had been granted immunity by prosecutors.

The immunity deal is said to involve only Weisselberg’s testimony against the president’s former lawyer, Michael Cohen.

But supporters of the president worry about the potential ramifications of even a relatively narrow deal — and fear major consequences if Weisselberg were to be persuaded to talk more broadly.

“It’s hard to see how you could minimize it,” said one GOP strategist close to the White House. “He was the brains of the operation.”

Another source familiar with Trump’s business operations sounded even more worried: “Weisselberg’s detailed knowledge of every financial transaction of the Trump Organization has to be a nightmare for everyone involved,” the source said.

Weisselberg has worked for the Trump family for more than four decades, having begun as an employee of the president’s father, the late Fred Trump, in the 1970s. His role expanded greatly, growing to encompass some management of the president’s personal finances as well as knowledge of countless business deals.
   1835. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: August 25, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5733607)
Interesting to see the suggestion that violent criminals be spread out amongst all countries and it's evil to do otherwise.

To be fair, only Davo is talking about it in those terms, and Davo has a much broader definition of "evil" than just about anyone.
   1836. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 25, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5733612)
@thehill

JUST IN: Trump met with promoter of "QAnon" conspiracy theory in Oval Office


Well, in for a kopek, in for a ruble. Just one more Trump treat for Clapper and JE to spin away.
   1837. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5733613)
"Import violent criminals!" is kind of a campaign slogan.
   1838. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5733614)
"A person can only be murdered once!"
   1839. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5733615)
"And some of the murders will be of other murderers!!"
   1840. DavidFoss Posted: August 25, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5733617)
"And some, I assume are good people"
   1841. Morty Causa Posted: August 25, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5733619)
So it's not immigrants? Or it is, but what can you expect when their religion is not respected. Besides, the little English tramps asked for it. Or: if it is immigrants, it's the fault of the authorities for not caring more and being more mindful of the little addict/alkie tramps? They have the duty. And their parents. Let’s not forget them when parceling out the blame. But, the immigrant is preternaturally good, something like a Rousseauian child of nature, and thus he can't be held to have done wrong that we should hold him responsible for. And, besides, everyone knows immigrants commit less crime than native citizens. It's an intuitive truth (no, no, that has nothing with that being a temporary status due to there being a teacher watching for delinquency, everyone knows poverty and a sense of displacement have nothing to do with committing crime). Have I missed any of the usual alibis?
   1842. Greg K Posted: August 25, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5733620)

"And some of the murders will be of other murderers!!"


They should take all the rapists and all the murderers and put them all together on an island and all the murderers can be raped, and the rapists can be murdered, until you only have either two rapists or you’re down to one raped murderer but who cares about him?
   1843. Davo Posted: August 25, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5733621)
“We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children!” certainly polls better, I agree.
   1844. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 25, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5733622)
They should take all the rapists and all the murderers and put them all together on an island and all the murderers can be raped, and the rapists can be murdered, until you only have either two rapists or you’re down to one raped murderer but who cares about him?

Isn't one Australia enough?
   1845. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 25, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5733624)
In 2020 news, Democrats Strip Superdelegates Of 1st Ballot Vote:
The Democratic National Committee voted Saturday to significantly curtail the power of superdelegates and make presidential caucuses more accessible, overcoming objections from a vocal minority of its membership. . . . The change will prohibit superdelegates from voting for president at the party’s 2020 convention, unless the outcome is already assured or it deadlocks, which hasn’t happened in decades. The vast majority of superdelegates sided with Hillary Clinton over Sanders in their primary fight two years ago.
. . .
The new rules will also make caucuses more accessible by requiring state parties to accept absentee votes, addressing concerns that the caucuses are less democratic than primaries because they require people to physically attend the events in order to participate in the presidential nominating process in their state.

A number of state parties are already considering replacing their caucuses with primaries, with some state party chairs here predicting the 2020 nominating contest will feature many fewer caucuses than in 2016.

Structurally, that's an unusual arrangement - retaining the superdelegates, but restricting when they can vote - which could lead to some awkward situations. If the race is close enough, a candidate could have an apparent 1st ballot majority (where superdelegates couldn't vote) but lack a majority for platform & credential fights (where they apparently can). That might be "interesting".

That only matters if the race is close, so perhaps it never matters. Or not. More certain to have an impact is allowing absentee ballots at caucuses, which is said to be likely to contribute to reducing the number of caucuses. That seems appropriate. I don't have a problem with Iowa doing its thing, but routine use of caucuses gives too much weight to gung-ho activists willing to devote precious hours for in-person attendance at what may be inconvenient times and locations.
   1846. baravelli Posted: August 25, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5733626)
So it's not immigrants? Or it is, but what can you expect when their religion is not respected.

The stats cited by JE from the Daily Mail are based on convictions for rape or attempted rape, but (from the link):
In 2016 there were 6,175 rapes reported to police but just 142 men convicted.
That’s less than 2.5% of reported rapes. How do you conclude much of anything from that?

FWIW, here's another take, from early 2017:

The image of hordes of immigrants raping Swedish women, however, is, to say the least, overheated. Getting accurate statistics on rape in Sweden is difficult. On one hand, the government, in obedience to feminist diktats, has broadened the definition of rape very considerably to include many things that most Americans would not consider rape. For example, Julian Assange, for whom I have no sympathy in general, apparently ripped a condom during a consensual encounter and now hides in the Ecuadorian embassy to evade rape charges.

On the other hand, the number of Swedish women who say they have been the victims of sexual assault of some kind “in the past year” has been rising, along with the number of women who say they have changed their habits in some way (avoiding certain areas after dark and so forth). The absolute numbers are much lower than those in the U.S., but the trend is up. Also, for those who picture blond Swedish women being preyed upon by dark-skinned foreigners, it’s important to stress that most of the women who have been victims of sexual assaults are themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants.

Tino Sanandaji cautions against the broad-brush depiction of Sweden’s immigration indigestion as a matter of Muslim influence. Some 17 percent of Swedes are foreign-born, but only 3 to 5 percent identify as Muslim. Many of the immigrants who sought refuge in Sweden from the Middle East were Maronite and Assyrian Christians. Others are atheists who were fleeing Islam. They are influenced, Sanandaji argues, more by American gangster rap and The Sopranos than by the Koran. Sweden has had only one terror attack by a Muslim extremist (who killed only himself), though that, of course, could change at any time.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/02/sweden-rape-sexual-assault-non-muslim-immigrants/
   1847. perros Posted: August 25, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5733628)
Have I missed any of the usual alibis?


Your own.
   1848. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 25, 2018 at 04:39 PM (#5733629)
They don't fight in physical wars, but instead they apply their resources to helping nudge the world closer to their worldview through diplomacy, soft power, largesse.

You speak as though Gustavus Adolphus had been dead for centuries!


Ask the Czechs about that. The Swedes took Prague Castle.

One day the Swedes will launch a new Vasa ship.
   1849. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 06:50 PM (#5733650)
Speaking of RINOs, people like Juan and Fake Lawyer and the Little Lord talk a good game but when the rubber meets the road are they really supporting the heroes of the cause?
   1850. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 25, 2018 at 07:46 PM (#5733658)
Those interested in the Democrats effort to inject new blood into their geriatric contingent in the House of Representatives will no doubt be interested in this campaign update on aspiring newcomer Donna Shalala, the 77-year old former HHS Secretary in the [Bill] Clinton administration. TL;DR version - she's being challenged from the left in the primary.
   1851. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:00 PM (#5733662)
EDIT: Also, opposition media or not?
They're individual columnists, not a newspaper or cable news network.
   1852. Davo Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:03 PM (#5733664)
@ACLU
Reminder: The consequences of family separation will far out-last this administration.

Watch one family's reunion after months of separation.

Yep, we’re the baddies.
   1853. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:06 PM (#5733665)
As for JE - yeah we get that by supporting Trump you may get some traction on some conservative positions that are held by conservatives. The question is - how do you consider your self moral in this case; knowingly supporting a lying crooked bigoted sleaze bag who's administration has persecuted and victimized families seeking asylum while emboldening white supremacists - and yes - anti semites as well.
I dispute the persecution claim and emboldening of white supremacists nonsense. He was a crooked real estate developer who defeated another lawbreaker but I highly doubt you have any regrets about your support for Hillary.

But since you ask: I haven't given Trump $. I haven't attended rallies. I haven't volunteered.
   1854. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:08 PM (#5733666)
My main problem is that in the city it's very unpredictable when the driver will arrive. You start off at 4 minutes, then 4 minutes later are still at 4 minutes, then 2 minutes later you're at 6 minutes.

Generally though it's a great thing.
What are you, mashugana?
   1855. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:12 PM (#5733667)
This is beyond comical, as if having once watched Huntley-Brinkley or Brokaw I was enabling Trump. But FTR, BITD I watched Cronkite, and the only time I watched NBC was when the Redskins were playing an AFC team, plus the occasional SNL. In fact other than sports, movies, Seinfeld reruns and the News Hour, I don't watch TV at all. You might be advised to do likewise, as well as ditching your Daily Caller addiction.
You miss the point. You moan and groan about those who empowered Trump, whom everyone knew was a racist SOB since the 1980s, yet never shake your fist at NBC, the network which re-introduced him to America in the 2000s.
   1856. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:15 PM (#5733670)
I'll agree with David here. I haven't read the Sperry piece in question... which is just the point. I don't read Sperry. When he shows up in the RCP aggregator I skip over the column even though the title looks salacious. Because I know it will be unverified.

Sperry's a hack.
Now you're definitely being mashugana.
   1857. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:21 PM (#5733673)
Which is a perfectly reasonable policy to support if you’re a white supremacist!!!
Dayton Moore's a white supremacist. And so's your sister.
   1858. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:23 PM (#5733674)

Requiescat In Pace, John McCain
   1859. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:25 PM (#5733675)
Yep, we’re the baddies.
Speaking of the ACLU, at least they don't have their heads up their asses WRT Cuomo vs. the NRA...

New York State Can’t Be Allowed to Stifle the NRA’s Political Speech
   1860. Lassus Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:28 PM (#5733677)
TIME Magazine about to pull off the troll of the year.
   1861. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:28 PM (#5733678)

"And some of the murders will be of other murderers!!"
Are you still confused about the difference between numerators and denominators?
   1862. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:32 PM (#5733680)
The new rules will also make caucuses more accessible by requiring state parties to accept absentee votes,
Pardon my French, but what the #### does that mean? That's not a caucus. That's a primary where you can show up and talk with each other if you want but it doesn't matter.
addressing concerns that the caucuses are less democratic than primaries because they require people to physically attend the events in order to participate in the presidential nominating process in their state.
This is that liberal thing of using the word democratic to mean something different than it actually means. Caucuses are not "less democratic" unless they award the delegates to a candidate who gets fewer votes. Everyone in the party is eligible to attend the caucus and cast a vote; it's fully democratic.


EDIT: To be clear, I don't have any brief for caucuses. I'm fine with them being abolished. But just do it, instead of pretending that you're not.
   1863. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:38 PM (#5733683)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but the capacity to act despite our fears."

RIP.
   1864. dlf Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:44 PM (#5733685)
I am not a huge fan of the McCain-Feingold campaign funding legislation, but in one way it was something really great: leaders from the two parties seeking consensus on a matter of significant importance and reaching across the aisle to accomplish their ends. I wish more politicians could do so today. Godspeed to a real patriot.
   1865. Greg K Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:44 PM (#5733686)
This is that liberal thing of using the word democratic to mean something different than it actually means. Caucuses are not "less democratic" unless they award the delegates to a candidate who gets fewer votes. Everyone in the party is eligible to attend the caucus and cast a vote; it's fully democratic.

I think there is a difference between theory and practice here though. Everyone can be eligible to show up, but if you can schedule an event when some people have to work. Or you can have it located somewhere with poor access to public transit.

Third world authoritarian regimes do a lot of things that are obviously anti-democratic (like ballot stuffing, or preventing certain people from voting), but they also do a lot of stuff that might not be technically anti-democratic, but just makes it difficult or inconvenient for people to vote.

I'm sure the parties you've got in the US run things on the up and up, but it seems like a caucus system creates more opportunities to game the system.
   1866. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 08:50 PM (#5733688)


I think there are a lot of such biases; they're almost unavoidable (and sometimes way more subtle), but you always have to filter for them. You don't turn your filter off just because the news venue is rated objective. And on the other hand, you don't toss the WSJ into the same basket as the Daily Caller just because "they're all biased." You have to take each venue and even each item in context.
Well, yes, that's true. But also in the modern media industry, you have to judge individual contributors, not just publications. Strassel is a one-note writer at the WSJ; she doesn't reflect on the entire publication. (Sure, you can sometimes filter by the source; I can't think of any regular at the Federalist who is worth even a few precious moments of one's life.)
   1867. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5733695)
Speaking of Strassel:
Note NYT tactic of now categorizing any criticism of FBI/DOJ as "conservative conspiracy theories." Cuz why would any rationale person think a dossier provided to FBI by rival campaign (and used for a FISA warrant )was "motivated by politics."
And it's also a pathetic tactic when enthusiastically applied here.
   1868. Davo Posted: August 25, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5733696)
Ryan Struyk
Verified account
@ryanstruyk

John McCain favorability ratings by party via Fox News poll—>

Democrats:
60% favorable
29% unfavorable

Republicans:
41% favorable
48% unfavorable

OF FOR ##### SAKE
   1869. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 09:29 PM (#5733697)
Rich Noyes:
Last month, ABC CBS and NBC touted a "stunning" "bombshell" accusation from Michael Cohen, 28 MINUTES of coverage in one day. Now that it's fallen apart, NOT ONE SECOND for a correction.
Opposition media? What opposition media???
   1870. Stormy JE Posted: August 25, 2018 at 09:42 PM (#5733698)
OF FOR ##### SAKE
Since this is a Davo comment, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say his beef is with the 60.
   1871. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 25, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5733700)
Opposition media? What opposition media???


Dude your paranoid fantasies and massive victim complex is not anyone's problem but your own.
   1872. Hot Wheeling American Posted: August 25, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5733702)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but the capacity to act despite our fears."

Wow, Juannity going on the record and breaking with the moral and intellectual leader of his dear Republican Party? Gotta respect it.
   1873. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 25, 2018 at 10:29 PM (#5733708)
Didn't know this:
Senator John McCain’s mother Roberta McCain is still alive. She is 106 years old.

Quite a family, with a record of public service spanning generations. I disagreed with Senator McCain on one of his signature issues (he had a blind spot about the 1st Amendment implications of his campaign finance measures), and he could be somewhat temperamental, but he was right on a lot of things. He'll be missed.
   1874. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 10:38 PM (#5733714)
...She had a dream about the King of Sweden
He gave her things, that she was needin'
He gave her a home built of gold and steel
A diamond car, with the platinum wheels


I can’t find it right now, but about a year ago some film footage of Cab surfaced which was claimed to be the earliest in existence, from his early-20s or so. It was in fanatic condition but what was especially memorable to be was how many of his signature affectations and performance quirks were fully on display even at this early stage - that crook-backed walk, the hair flips, his pirouette, it was all there and it was all fantastic.
   1875. Davo Posted: August 25, 2018 at 10:47 PM (#5733716)
@PolkCoSheriff
;) ;) #CopHumor
   1876. zenbitz Posted: August 25, 2018 at 11:10 PM (#5733721)
Interesting to see the suggestion that violent criminals be spread out amongst all countries and it's evil to do otherwise.


Yeah that's one way to look at it. But that's not what I said. You see - if you blame a rapist for committing rape, that's OK. But if you blame or punish a random dude for rape because he shares a country of origin with a rapist, that's evil.

Now the thing about spreading violent criminals amongst all countries isn't good or evil, it's neutral. That was Davo's point. That you aren't actually "doing a good thing" -- in terms of humanity -- you are just moving the rape around. So, a good thing would be to try to prevent a rape. But of course you can't really do that because rapists don't wear signs on their head that says "Ima gonna do some rapin' today". I mean, unless they're the President.
   1877. zenbitz Posted: August 25, 2018 at 11:13 PM (#5733724)
On one hand, the government, in obedience to feminist diktats...,


Pro tip - if you ever want to stop me from reading the rest of a quote, put stuff like this in there...
   1878. zenbitz Posted: August 25, 2018 at 11:15 PM (#5733725)
yet never shake your fist at NBC, the network which re-introduced him to America in the 2000s.


If I shook my fist at every network that ran a stupid TV show I didn't care about... I could power the Eastern Seaboard.
   1879. zenbitz Posted: August 25, 2018 at 11:22 PM (#5733726)
who defeated another lawbreaker

HER EMAILS.

Man you are sure hanging your hat on a procedural security violation.... or are is this some combination of "The Clintons are so masterful at deception that despite the massive evidence we can't... seem... to... pin ... an indictment on them".
   1880. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 25, 2018 at 11:26 PM (#5733727)
She murdered Vince Foster and made my cow give sour milk!
   1881. Srul Itza Posted: August 25, 2018 at 11:43 PM (#5733730)
She turned me into a newt!








I got better.
   1882. Random Transaction Generator Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5733731)
One more slap in the face for Donald Trump from McCain:

He has requested that GWB and Obama give eulogies at his funeral.

   1883. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:10 AM (#5733732)
I dispute the persecution claim and emboldening of white supremacists nonsense.

I think many thousands of white supremacists would contradict you rather forcefully on that. But I'm sure it's just a coincidence that every prominent white nationalist both here and overseas is a vocal fan of Donald Trump----purely coincidental.

---------------------------------------------------------------

This is beyond comical, as if having once watched Huntley-Brinkley or Brokaw I was enabling Trump. But FTR, BITD I watched Cronkite, and the only time I watched NBC was when the Redskins were playing an AFC team, plus the occasional SNL. In fact other than sports, movies, Seinfeld reruns and the News Hour, I don't watch TV at all. You might be advised to do likewise, as well as ditching your Daily Caller addiction.

You miss the point. You moan and groan about those who empowered Trump, whom everyone knew was a racist SOB since the 1980s, yet never shake your fist at NBC, the network which re-introduced him to America in the 2000s.


Was that because of what? Was The Apprentice an NBC show? Do you really think I was paying attention to crap like that when it was on the air?

Jesus, if you want to take it back before 2015, you could blame whatever laws or judges let a crook like Trump stay out of jail and get back into business. You could blame Roy Cohn. You could blame the Russians for loaning him money. You could blame the tabloids. You could blame his mother for not aborting him. You could blame his grandmother for not aborting his Klan-loving father.

But in fact, the only ones who are morally responsible for Trump are the ones who got conned into voting for him, the ones who voted for him because they knew exactly what they were getting, and people like you who are still defending him to this day, in the face of everything everyone knows about him and his posse.
   1884. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:13 AM (#5733733)
Just heard while driving home that John McCain had died. What a man and what a life, totally transcending all political differences.
   1885. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:19 AM (#5733735)
But of course you can't really do that because rapists don't wear signs on their head that says "Ima gonna do some rapin' today". I mean, unless they're the President.


But enough about Bill Clinton.
   1886. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:19 AM (#5733736)
I think there are a lot of such biases; they're almost unavoidable (and sometimes way more subtle), but you always have to filter for them. You don't turn your filter off just because the news venue is rated objective. And on the other hand, you don't toss the WSJ into the same basket as the Daily Caller just because "they're all biased." You have to take each venue and even each item in context.

Well, yes, that's true. But also in the modern media industry, you have to judge individual contributors, not just publications.

Exactly. Just to take the Post and the Times, both of them have plentiful numbers of op-ed writers and contributors from both the conservative and liberal ranks. How some people refer to them by the names of the papers they appear in** is one of life's little baffles.

** As in, "even The Washington Post said", or "even the New York Times admitted", when they're simply referring to one of those op-ed writers.
   1887. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:29 AM (#5733737)
I doubt Trump would have lasted two weeks as a POW in McCain's shoes.

I also doubt Trump would have refused an early release because his father was somebody.

And imagining Trump flying a bombing mission over north Vietnam is more difficult still.
   1888. Howie Menckel Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:45 AM (#5733738)
(I guess that from this the source is right-wing, so this is not "fair" - but still of interest)

McCain and not Bobby McGee

1999:

"two weekends ago, as he was campaigning across New Hampshire, a team of comics with a camera crew from the cable network Comedy Central clambered aboard his campaign bus to enlist him in their own little game of gotcha.

Okay, the comedians pressed as the cameras rolled, then recite some of his poetry.

Gotcha? Here again, the Comedy Central team revealed their own provincialism. They were apparently ignorant of one of the ironclad rules of modern poetry: Anyone who likes Robert Service can recite Robert Service. By the yard.

And that's what McCain did. After a bumpy push-off, by one witness's account, he ran through all 14 stanzas of "The Cremation of Sam McGee," Service's great ballad that deathlessly begins

There are strange things done in the
midnight sun
By the men who moil for gold;
The Arctic trails have their secret tales
That would make your blood run
cold . . .

"Who's your favorite poet? they asked McCain.

On the bus in New Hampshire, the wise-asses from Comedy Central were apparently impressed with McCain's performance. As they were breaking down their camera equipment, McCain mentioned offhandedly how he had come to memorize "Sam McGee."

"The guy in the cell next to me," he said, "it was his favorite poem. He used to tap it to me on the wall, in Morse Code. That's how I memorized it."
   1889. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:50 AM (#5733739)
But enough about Bill Clinton.

When have you ever had enough about the Clintons? You are a complete Clinton addict.
   1890. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 26, 2018 at 01:16 AM (#5733740)
When have you ever had enough about the Clintons? You are a complete Clinton addict.

That seems unfair to Ray. These are the real Clinton addicts.
   1891. perros Posted: August 26, 2018 at 02:52 AM (#5733744)
What a man and what a life, totally transcending all political differences.


Because if there's one thing that can unite Republicans and Democrats alike, it's zeal for bombing the #### out of third world countries.
   1892. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:34 AM (#5733748)
When have you ever had enough about the Clintons? You are a complete Clinton addict.

That seems unfair to Ray. These are the real Clinton addicts.

Yeah, all 6 of them.
Profile picture of Hillary Clinton for President in 2020
Hillary Clinton for President in 2020
@HillaryFor2020 Friends(6)Messages(2)Notifications(38)Chat(2)Pages(1)


   1893. BDC Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:40 AM (#5733751)
What the heck is wrong with nil nisi bonum? It worked for me when Margaret Thatcher died :)

John McCain, though, I will add my RIP. His war service was inspiring, and as many have said, I think he really did always want what was best for his country. Much like Barry Goldwater in that you could disagree with him about 99.9% of the time and still respect him.
   1894. . . . . . . Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:00 AM (#5733755)
It was a glorious bonus that the politician who came closest to my personal politics was also a hero and a good man. I told everyone in 2008 that I voted for Obama but when the curtain pulled across the voting booth...
...I met the man twice and he was every bit as impressive in person and basically the same as his public personna. That’s about as rare as being a conservative who’s last legislative act was to save quasi-nationalized healthcare.
   1895. perros Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:21 AM (#5733756)
Thatcher and nil nisi bonum


those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren't silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person's death to create hagiography. Typifying these highly dubious claims about Thatcher was this (appropriately diplomatic) statement from President Obama: "The world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend." Those gushing depictions can be quite consequential, as it was for the week-long tidal wave of unbroken reverence that was heaped on Ronald Reagan upon his death, an episode that to this day shapes how Americans view him and the political ideas he symbolized. Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.


Is this standard going to be followed with Trump, let alone foreign adversaries like Putin? The requirement to keep silent while everybody spouts tribute to a vain, crooked, war-mongering politician is a false one.

The Man Who Never Was
   1896. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:34 AM (#5733758)
It was a glorious bonus that the politician who came closest to my personal politics was also a hero and a good man. I told everyone in 2008 that I voted for Obama but when the curtain pulled across the voting booth...


What a heartwarming tale of pusillanimity.

   1897. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:39 AM (#5733759)
It was a glorious bonus that the politician who came closest to my personal politics was also a hero and a good man. I told everyone in 2008 that I voted for Obama but when the curtain pulled across the voting booth...


What a heartwarming tale of pusillanimity.

TIL John McCain is one of the few true liberals.
   1898. BDC Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:46 AM (#5733761)
he requirement to keep silent while everybody spouts tribute to a vain, crooked, war-mongering politician is a false one


There's no requirement to suspend historical judgment after somebody dies. It is simply polite not to talk #### in the immediate days after someone dies. You can always just not comment.
   1899. McCoy Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:04 AM (#5733764)
In my younger years if I had voted and he had won the nomination I probably would have voted for McCain in 2000. Post 2000 it always appeared to me that he sold his political soul to get the nomination and the Palin pick was just plain stupid. But I don't think I ever ran across anything of his from 1999 on that made me lose respect for him as a human being. I was not happy with his hardline stance when it came to war but it seemed to me that for the most part he was trying to do the right thing based on his beliefs and worldview. That's rare, not just for politicians but for all people.

In this day and age I don't know if it was a staged thing or not but I always remember the town hall meeting where the little old racist white lady got up in front of the world and said that Obama was a muslim and the context of that was that that was a terrible thing and McCain stood there and defended Obama against the rabid base that has become the GOP base.
   1900. Lassus Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5733768)
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