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Monday, August 20, 2018

OTP 2018 August 20: Sick of divisive summertime politics? Baseball’s thrills offer an escape

First, things starting with the letter “L” come to mind when thinking about this summer.
“The Summer of Lying?” Nah, let’s keep this positive.

It seems like certain politicians and college coaches have been competing in a never-ending race to the bottom of the dishonesty cesspool.
“The Summer of LeBron?” Maybe. But no, LeBron James doesn’t need any more attention.

But his decision to build a new public school for at-risk kids in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, and cover all student costs should be commended by everyone, including the U.S. Secretary of Education and her boss.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:45 AM | 2230 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   1901. McCoy Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5733769)
You failed
   1902. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5733773)
In this day and age I don't know if it was a staged thing or not but I always remember the town hall meeting where the little old racist white lady got up in front of the world and said that Obama was a muslim


She said he was an Arab.
   1903. Lassus Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5733776)
As per McCoy, one of the worst things one could say about McCain is that his base descended into garbage and he wasn't maverick enough to stand against them as much as he could have.
   1904. McCoy Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5733778)
I stand corrected.
   1905. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5733779)
As per McCoy, one of the worst things one could say about McCain is that his base descended into garbage and he wasn't maverick enough to stand against them as much as he could have.


I could say plenty worse.
   1906. perros Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5733780)

There's no requirement to suspend historical judgment after somebody dies. It is simply polite not to talk #### in the immediate days after someone dies. You can always just not comment.


Thia is the very crux of the problem with liberalism -- you make the political personal, reducing issues of great collective importance to individualistic decorum. I'm not going to his funeral talking ####, taking his daughter to task for her opposition to healthcare for all, or, god forbid, calling his wife a ####. No, I am bringing up stuff about which people largely remained silent during McCain's national political career, on the slim chance they might pay attention before they are interred in hallowed ground and put out of mind for good.

It's not about McCain the man, but McCain the representative of American myth that ensures future wars, future atrocities, and ultimately the destruction of any semblance of democracy in the United States. To keep silent now is to conspire with the whitewashing not just of McCain but for the contempible policies he so often stood for,
   1907. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:59 AM (#5733781)
Thia is the very crux of the problem with liberalism


Also they don’t kick people enough when they’re down. Go get ‘em, moonbeam.
   1908. zenbitz Posted: August 26, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5733785)
John McCain was a worthy adversary.
   1909. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5733800)
As per McCoy, one of the worst things one could say about McCain is that his base descended into garbage and he wasn't maverick enough to stand against them as much as he could have.

He was pretty damn good. He refused to do a lot of garbage, and defended Obama. More than Obama defended Hillary (You are likable enough)
   1910. Count Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5733805)
1909- he also had Sarah Palin as his VP nominee, and consistently supported terrible policies. He would have been a really bad president (one thing I’m not sure about- if elected in 2008 you would think he would pursue disastrous austerity, but maybe not- without a democratic president conservatives don’t care about deficit spending). Still a man of tremendous personal courage and integrity in his most trying time. I think it’s pretty easy to be critical without being a jerk or hagiographic.
   1911. Count Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:45 PM (#5733807)
And there is some bitterness on the left over his very generous treatment by the press -

Alex Pareene:

McCain got credit for decrying the Swift Boat smears even after he spoke at the RNC where they wore purple Band-Aids as a "Purple Heart" joke. Then one of the main Swift Boat guys was one of his surrogates in 2008. When Kerry dies Republicans will post windsurfing jokes.
   1912. zenbitz Posted: August 26, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5733810)
Can we blame the Palin pick on a nascent brain tumor?
   1913. Greg K Posted: August 26, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5733816)
Just caught BBC Newsworld documentary on Sweden, the main thrust of which is that the "Good Sweden" narrative of progressive utopia and the "Bad Sweden" narrative of failed multicultural hell hole are both distortions of reality being shoe-horned into a political message.

The main message I got out of it was that Sweden (like many other European nations) is now being forced to deal with decades of having somewhat less than comprehensive migration policies. If your migration policy ends once the migrant arrives, I think you're setting yourself up for a backlash. Unemployment rates among migrants and second-generation migrants are much higher than the national average in France, Sweden, and Belgium. Whereas I believe in Canada (where despite some efforts migration hasn't really caught on yet as a top political issue) within 10 years the migrant unemployment rate is lower than the national average.

The current refugee crisis is obviously the catalyst for the rise of anti-immigration politics in Europe, but I think the longer term problem is the failure to integrate previous generations of migrants (and probably more in terms of integrating them into the economy rather than the culture).
   1914. Count Posted: August 26, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5733825)
1913- is the refugee crisis the catalyst for anti immigration politics or is it the financial collapse and weak responses (particularly austerity, which was a massive disaster that thankfully was partially avoided in the US thanks to having Democratic control of the federal government). Not a rhetorical question. Also unclear exactly what happened in the US- we did not have anywhere near the influx of immigrants as in Europe but still elected a white nationalist administration.
   1915. Greg K Posted: August 26, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5733829)
1913- is the refugee crisis the catalyst for anti immigration politics or is it the financial collapse and weak responses (particularly austerity, which was a massive disaster that thankfully was partially avoided in the US thanks to having Democratic control of the federal government). Not a rhetorical question. Also unclear exactly what happened in the US- we did not have anywhere near the influx of immigrants as in Europe but still elected a white nationalist administration.

Yeah I think they are certainly related (especially in Europe where anti-immigration parties are also presenting themselves as defenders of the welfare state).

Another link is probably in Arab Spring itself, which I'm sure was spurred on by the global financial crisis.

One thing that has always been consistent in my life is my inability to really understand the US. Hence all the time I spend here - I'm hoping you guys can explain it to me.

I would guess that migration as a political issue in the US is primarily about Latin America, and US attitudes towards Middle Eastern/North African refugees are more informed by that dynamic than anything going on in the Arab world. But, as I say, my go to answer for all things American is "you tell me".
   1916. McCoy Posted: August 26, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5733834)
The US has seen a large influx of immigrants to this country in the last 30 odd years. Currently about 14% of the population are immigrants which is almost identical to immigrant percentages back in the heydays of the 1870's to 1920 immigration. Europe had a "bad" year in 2015 that would probably be viewed as a regular year here in the US. The rest of the time in Europe has seen mild immigration. The big issue for Europe is that each country is like a large state when compared to America. So if a 700,000 people land in Greece on their way to parts wherever in Europe that is a huge burden for a state to bear all at once. In America that is a cost born by the entire country's population which dwarfs the size of Greece's population.
   1917. McCoy Posted: August 26, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5733836)
I would guess that migration as a political issue in the US is primarily about Latin America, and US attitudes towards Middle Eastern/North African refugees are more informed by that dynamic than anything going on in the Arab world. But, as I say, my go to answer for all things American is "you tell me".

It's the same as pretty much everywhere else. You don't look like me so I don't want you here and I certainly don't want my money being used for you when I want it to be used for me.
   1918. Greg K Posted: August 26, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5733844)
Interesting, Canada is at around 22%. I'd have figured it would be about the same as the US.
   1919. Omineca Greg Posted: August 26, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5733847)
The current refugee crisis is obviously the catalyst for the rise of anti-immigration politics in Europe, but I think the longer term problem is the failure to integrate previous generations of migrants (and probably more in terms of integrating them into the economy rather than the culture).
I know someone who immigrated to Sweden! (The things we do for love...the rain and the snow, etc, etc..)

I've had a chance to talk to her about the experience. She describes exactly what you seem to be saying, that there's just enough bureaucracy to stop you from getting established, but not enough to help you get your start, if that makes sense. She had several sad years of trying to fit in, taking Swedish lessons, going to cultural awareness seminars, which were all well and good, but despite being a successful fashion designer in the old country (India) there was very little opportunity for work in even entry level jobs. My observation would be that she got more help from the government than she would have received in Canada, but here, there would have been literally millions of South Asian Canadians to help her, in Stockholm she was cut adrift and alone (she was married, so not alone in that sense, but in the "no peer group" sense). So multiculturalism, it helps people assimilate...who would have thunk it?

It eventually all worked out for her in the end, and of course her experience is unique to her: upper class and educated (in India), married to a Swede who knows the way things are done, already knowing English (which virtually all Swedes speak). I think she had it easier than most immigrants to Sweden would, but she still hated it. The culture shock of going from the energetic chaos of Delhi to the prim and proper Stockholm was hard for her. Still hard for her.
   1920. BDC Posted: August 26, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5733850)
I would guess that migration as a political issue in the US is primarily about Latin America, and US attitudes towards Middle Eastern/North African refugees are more informed by that dynamic than anything going on in the Arab world. But, as I say, my go to answer for all things American is "you tell me"


Every region and community in the US presents different issues. On the southwestern border, despite the occasional Sheriff Arpaio, I sense that migration from Mexico is far less of a political issue than in the other 46 states, simply because the Mexican community is so long-established (back to when this was Mexico). Tejanos have long faced segregation and discrimination, but not really as immigrants, more as a given on the demographic scene.

Salvadorans are recent and visible immigrants here, though, and that adds a nuance to the situation that probably doesn't obtain in some other parts of the US where some community moves in and they're just "Spanish," nobody knows quite where they came from or cares to make any finer distinctions (hence the way that Trump can bash Mexican immigrants even as immigration back to Mexico itself has slightly outpaced new immigration from Mexico). It's not like there are huge fault lines within the local Hispanic community in Texas, but it's internally diverse and continually changing.

In local politics in DFW, Muslim immigrants are a far bigger issue. We have a large and growing Muslim community, many of them immigrants. A local sheriff's race here recently turned on one guy casually referring to international students as the front line of terrorism (he lost). Some crazy person recently posted attacks on a Muslim Republican official on Facebook, full of the usual warnings about Sharia law, leading the local GOP to defend their conservative Muslim colleague (who has no interest in Sharia law, and is just trying to cut taxes and social services like any other Republican :) That sort of thing.
   1921. dlf Posted: August 26, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5733852)
(one thing I’m not sure about- if elected in 2008 you would think he would pursue disastrous austerity, but maybe not- without a democratic president conservatives don’t care about deficit spending).


No idea how he would have governed if elected, but his suspension of the campaign to rush back to Washington, while politically stupid, was done to support the Paulson / Bernanke plan post AIG in what later became TARP suggesting that he, like Obama and Bush, was open to stimulus spending. He was clearly not a member of the TEA Party wing of the GOP.
   1922. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 26, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5733853)
Speaking of historical judgment, in addition to flags at half mast, John McCain, will lie in state in the Capitol Rotunda, an honor first extended to Henry Clay in 1852, which has only been accorded to some 30 Americans. The complete list is here.
   1923. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: August 26, 2018 at 02:39 PM (#5733859)
And the hits just keep on coming:


A former high-ranking Vatican official says Pope Francis should step down from the papacy, because he knew about sexual abuse allegations against an influential American cardinal — and participated in covering them up.

Carlo Maria Viganò, a former papal nuncio (an ambassador-like position) wrote an 11-page open letter alleging that both Pope Francis and his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, knew about decades’ worth of allegations against Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, former Archbishop of Washington, DC. He was removed from active ministry in June and later resigned his cardinalship after revelations emerged that he had sexually abused generations’ worth of junior seminarians and young priests as a priest, then bishop in New Jersey. He is also accused of having sexually abused at least two minors.

McCarrick is currently facing an internal, ecclesiastical trial, and has been ordered by the Vatican to remain in penitential seclusion until that time. Due to the statute of limitations on his alleged offenses, he faces no criminal proceedings at this time.

In Viganò’s letter, which has been posted at the National Catholic Register and Lifesite News, Viganò alleges that, while McCarrick’s behavior toward adults was an open secret in the Vatican, many high-level officials, including Francis himself, conspired to keep McCarrick in active ministry (the letter makes no mention of any knowledge about McCarrick’s abuses against children).


Link
   1924. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: August 26, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5733867)
Oh ... and this.

Sigh:


The Jacksonville, Florida, Sheriff's Office said there was a mass shooting with multiple fatalities at a downtown shopping-dining complex on Sunday and urged people to stay far away from the area.

"Mass shooting at the Jacksonville Landing. Stay far away from the area. The area is not safe at this time. STAY AWAY #TheLandingMassShooting," the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said on Twitter.

The shooting occurred during a qualifying event for the Madden 19 Tournament at the GLHF Game Bar, according to the Twitter of CompLexity Gaming, one of the gaming teams. One Madden participant, Young Drini, was grazed in the hand and is away from the scene and safe, Complexity said.


CNN
   1925. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 26, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5733875)
The Jacksonville, Florida, Sheriff's Office said there was a mass shooting with multiple fatalities at a downtown shopping-dining complex on Sunday and urged people to stay far away from the area.
Was it by an illegal immigrant? Asking the questions the right cares about.
   1926. Zonk is Back Where He Came From Posted: August 26, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5733884)
Typical.

Not a word of apology from the usual Trump haters to Trump admin's Kellly Sadler for being right after all.
   1927. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 26, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5733891)
Was it by an illegal immigrant? Asking the questions the right cares about.

That's not fair. I am sure a lot of the right is gleefully hoping it was a gamer, so they can scream about #ViolentVideoGames.
   1928. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: August 26, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5733897)
I have seen a fair amount of Madden-induced rage over the years.
   1929. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: August 26, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5733905)
I have seen a fair amount of Madden-induced rage over the years.


For me it was FM 2010 that got the cops called.

#### Chelski ...
   1930. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: August 26, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5733906)
John McCain was a worthy adversary.


Yeah no.

Can we blame the Palin pick on a nascent brain tumor?


Yeah no. His advisers vetted her and he went along with it. Did they all have brain tumors? #### them all.
   1931. Sit down, Sleepy has lots of stats Posted: August 26, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5733907)
12:15 p.m.

A candidate for the GOP nomination for U.S. Senate in Arizona has suggested that a statement that Sen. John McCain was ending medical treatment was designed to hurt her campaign.

Kelli Ward made the comment on Facebook hours before McCain died Saturday. Ward had unsuccessfully challenged McCain in the 2016 GOP primary and is now running for a seat being vacated by Sen. Jeff Flake.

A post from a Ward campaign aide questions whether the Friday announcement was timed to distract from a bus tour that Ward had launched that day.

Ward commented: "I think they wanted to have a particular narrative that is negative to me."
Sorry that Senator McCain's death came at a time that was inconvenient for your campaign...
   1932. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: August 26, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5733910)
That's not fair. I am sure a lot of the right is gleefully hoping it was a gamer, so they can scream about #ViolentVideoGames.


Perhaps it's just someone pissed at "The Donkey Sauce" ...
   1933. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 26, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5733911)
Hours before Sen. John McCain passed away Saturday following a battle with brain cancer, a Republican Senate candidate in Arizona reportedly claimed on Facebook that the legendary “maverick” had tried to harm her campaign by releasing a statement announcing his decision to end medical treatment. “I think they wanted to have a particular narrative that they hope is negative to me,” Kelli Ward wrote. Her comments came in response to a post from a supporter who questioned whether it was “just a coincidence” that the McCain family released a statement about the senator’s deteriorating health just as Ward began her campaign, or meant to “take media attention” away from Ward. The posts were deleted after McCain’s death was announced late Saturday, but several screenshots were still circulating on social media. Ward later issued a statement on Facebook offering condolences to the McCain family and blasting the “media, the left, and the Establishment” for “attacking me over fake stories.”

Yes, how dare the fake media not honor Kelli Ward's honest rewriting of history!
   1934. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 26, 2018 at 04:42 PM (#5733913)
Ward later issued a statement on Facebook offering condolences to the McCain family and blasting the “media, the left, and the Establishment” for “attacking me over fake stories.”
There goes the opposition media, telling the stupid truth instead of focusing on her amazing alternate facts.
   1935. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: August 26, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5733914)
Speaking of historical judgment, in addition to flags at half mast, John McCain, will lie in state in the Capitol Rotunda, an honor first extended to Henry Clay in 1852, which has only been accorded to some 30 Americans. The complete list is here.
Looks like Nixon and Truman are the only presidents to die after FDR and not lie in state. With Nixon the reason is sort of obvious, with Truman I expect he didn't want it. It'll be interesting to see if Carter lies in state, though I suppose he might stipulate in his will that they just bury him down in Plains and be done with it.
   1936. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 26, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5733922)
U. S. & Mexico poised to reach new NAFTA deal, possibly as soon as tomorrow:
The U.S. and Mexico are poised to resolve their bilateral Nafta differences as soon as Monday, creating an opening for Canada to rejoin talks covering $1.2 trillion in annual trade. Significant breakthroughs between Mexico and the U.S. came during the past several days on the contentious issues of automobiles and energy, according to three people familiar with the process who asked not to be named discussing private talks.

Developing.
   1937. perros Posted: August 26, 2018 at 05:34 PM (#5733932)
migration from Mexico is far less of a political issue than in the other 46 states, simply because the Mexican community is so long-established (back to when this was Mexico).


Inhabited by Native Americans for thousands of years before European exploration, it was colonized by the Spanish in 1598 as part of the Imperial Spanish viceroyalty of New Spain. In 1563, it was named Nuevo México after the Aztec Valley of Mexico by Spanish settlers, more than 250 years before the establishment and naming of the present-day country of Mexico; thus, the present-day state of New Mexico was not named after the country today known as Mexico.

The name Nuevo México was first used by a seeker of gold mines named Francisco de Ibarra, who explored far to the north of New Spain in 1563 and reported his findings as being in "a New Mexico". Juan de Oñate officially established the name when he was appointed the first governor of the new Province of New Mexico in 1598.
   1938. perros Posted: August 26, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5733933)
dp
   1939. perros Posted: August 26, 2018 at 05:49 PM (#5733934)
Trump's self-centeredness pales next to Ward's.

Still, #### them all.
   1940. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5733945)
Without Trump's idiotic "I like people who weren't captured" comment, the outpouring of adulation for McCain would be less.
   1941. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 06:53 PM (#5733952)
(Which is not to say the outpouring isn't deserved, just that... as I said... it would be less.)
   1942. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 07:24 PM (#5733965)
"Someone pay attention to me, I'm so provocative!"
   1943. Stormy JE Posted: August 26, 2018 at 07:44 PM (#5733970)
Sorry that Senator McCain's death came at a time that was inconvenient for your campaign....
Hopefully, this will be the Ward blunder that enables McSally to pull away.
   1944. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 26, 2018 at 07:48 PM (#5733971)
"Someone pay attention to me, I'm so provocative!"

Maybe we can toss Ray a Dershowitz squirrel.

Dershowitz says New York probe, not Mueller, is ‘greatest threat’ to Trump
President Trump should be more worried about prosecutors in New York than about the ongoing Russia probe led by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, retired Harvard Law School professor Alan Dershowitz said Sunday.

Dershowitz, an informal Trump adviser, said in an appearance on ABC News’s “This Week” that the expanding probe by prosecutors in the Southern District of New York could spell the greatest peril for Trump because of the lack of constitutional protections for the president at that level.

“I think he has constitutional defenses to the investigation being conducted by Mueller,” Dershowitz said. “But there are no constitutional defenses to what the Southern District is investigating. So, I think the Southern District is the greatest threat.” ...

Dershowitz said Sunday that “it would be great” to have Democrats in charge on Capitol Hill so that they can conduct investigations into Trump’s actions. ...

In an interview on “Fox News Sunday,” former attorney general Alberto Gonzales said that Cohen’s guilty plea and the conviction of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort were creating “a lot of debate and swirl around the president as an individual, and that’s never good.”

Trump has praised Manafort and recently sought his attorneys’ advice on a potential pardon, according to Trump attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani. Gonzales said that while Trump is entitled to speak his mind, his apparent sympathy for Manafort puts him at odds with his own Justice Department.

“They had a very successful conviction of Paul Manafort. And to have the president then, you know, speak so well of Paul Manafort was somewhat unusual,” Gonzales said. ...
   1945. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 26, 2018 at 07:50 PM (#5733972)
Hopefully, this will be the Ward blunder that enables McSally to pull away.

It appears that McSally was already doing so, although this might accelerate the trend.
   1946. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:02 PM (#5733977)
Speaking of Arizona, it looks like at least one of Tuesday's primary elections will be an old-fashioned, in-your-face, donnybrook - the "rowdy race" for the Democratic nomination in AZ-2, apparently characterized by "negativity and nastiness":
A wild, downright nasty primary brawl is threatening the Democratic Party’s prospects in one of the nation’s most competitive House races, magnifying divisions that have split Democrats around the country this year. The race between former Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick and Matt Heinz, who was the party’s nominee in the Tucson-based 2nd District in 2016, has settled on familiar lines, with Heinz running as a progressive anti-establishment candidate against the more moderate, Kirkpatrick who is backed by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. But it has also gotten vicious in a way that many other primaries have not, featuring several negative TV ads, a lawsuit, a private investigator and a recent, controversial statement by Heinz comparing Kirkpatrick’s political career to meth addiction.

Supposed to be close. More at link.
   1947. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:06 PM (#5733978)

Someone proposed that Flake should resign. Ducey then appoints Flake to McCain's seat, and McSally to Flake's seat.
   1948. Stormy JE Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:12 PM (#5733980)
Man you are sure hanging your hat on a procedural security violation.... or are is this some combination of "The Clintons are so masterful at deception that despite the massive evidence we can't... seem... to... pin ... an indictment on them".
"Procedural security violation." Was this really typed with a straight face?
   1949. Stormy JE Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:14 PM (#5733981)
Someone proposed that Flake should resign. Ducey then appoints Flake to McCain's seat, and McSally to Flake's seat.
After screwing over McConnell with his personal August holiday, Flake should resign. Period.
   1950. McCoy Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:15 PM (#5733982)
I doubt Flake would be given McCain's seat as I don't think Ducey is going to buck Trump and McConnell.
   1951. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:27 PM (#5733986)
Someone proposed that Flake should resign. Ducey then appoints Flake to McCain's seat, and McSally to Flake's seat.

Is Flake even interested? He voluntarily chose not to run for re-election this year, and this maneuver just pushes another race to 2020 (and again in 2022 for a new term), ensuring that his entire tenure would be in re-election mode, unless he was content to just serve as caretaker and not tun again. A better choice for the caretaker role, IMHO, would be former Senator John Kyl, who served 3 terms before declining to seek re-election in 2012. Kyl has been in the news a bit lately as Brett Kavanaugh's Senate "Sherpa", assisting him in the confirmation process.

Kyl is 76 and may not be interested, but serving as a "caretaker" does eliminate the political tasks that contribute considerably to the burden of the office.

One complication in appointing McCain's successor is that it may be too late to replace anyone on the general election ballot, which makes those folks unlikely choices. Not sure about that, but the reporting doesn't seem to mention anyone from Congress or statewide office as under consideration.
   1952. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:29 PM (#5733988)
"Someone pay attention to me, I'm so provocative!"


Indeed. That characterizes 99% of your posts.
   1953. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:39 PM (#5733991)
After screwing over McConnell with his personal August holiday, Flake should resign. Period.


You seem to think The Turtle is the King of the Senate and all the Senators serve at his behest, but I assure you it does not work that way.
   1954. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:40 PM (#5733992)
Maybe we can toss Ray a Dershowitz squirrel.

Dershowitz says New York probe, not Mueller, is ‘greatest threat’ to Trump


I remember when Democrats opined that "LOCK HER UP!" was an abhorrent moral code.

But Dershowitz is of course correct. Collusion looks to be a unicorn but even if Mueller finds it it's not a crime. Mueller can try to charge Trump with obstruction for firing Comey but good luck with that. And there's no way Trump is talking to Mueller. That leaves crimes that Mueller refers out.

These investigations are being cheer leaded because Democrats want the results of the election overturned. It doesn't go any deeper than that. There's no moral code here, any more than "LOCK HER UP!" was a moral code. Democrats have become what they claimed to abhor in Trump.
   1955. Zonk is Back Where He Came From Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:49 PM (#5733994)
Hahahaha.

It's so unfair that the buffoonish clown of a criminal is being investigated for his many buffoonish clown crimes.

Unfair! Sad!
   1956. Stormy JE Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:52 PM (#5733996)
You seem to think The Turtle is the King of the Senate and all the Senators serve at his behest, but I assure you it does not work that way.
As everyone not living deep inside a lily white cul-de-sac knows, Flake only pulled this #### now because he'll be vacating his office shortly after the midterms.
   1957. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 26, 2018 at 08:56 PM (#5733997)
Thanks for your assurances but I've interacted a bit with the Senate over the years.


Oooh good for you!

Flake only pulled this #### now because he'll be vacating his office shortly after the midterms.


Does this make him part of the opposition now? You and your leader's enemies list just seems to keep growing. Must be a sign of great leadership.
   1958. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:05 PM (#5734001)
Hahahaha.

It's so unfair that the buffoonish clown of a criminal is being investigated for his many buffoonish clown crimes.

Unfair! Sad!


I didn't say it was unfair (though it is indeed Sad). I said that Democrats have become what they claimed to abhor in Trump.

No way around it. He's being investigated because people don't like him. The investigations are in search of crimes.
   1959. Zonk is Back Where He Came From Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5734002)
I didn't say it was unfair (though it is indeed Sad). I said that Democrats have become what they claimed to abhor in Trump.


Good thing there are another 1000 or so things to abhor about Trump.

No way around it. He's being investigated because people don't like him. The investigations are in search of crimes.


Yeah, people who a lot of illegal things tend not to be well-liked and also tend to be investigated a lot.

Funny how that little bit of synergy works.
   1960. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:09 PM (#5734003)
I am sure a lot of the right is gleefully hoping it was a gamer, so they can scream about #ViolentVideoGames.

It seems like it's people on the left who rush to cast blame in such incidents, and usually suggest the solution to the problem is to take guns away from law abiding citizens. In any event, there doesn't appear to be a political motive for the shooting, which seems to have resulted from a dispute among participants:
A Baltimore man has been identified as the gunman who opened fire at a Jacksonville, Fla., video game competition Sunday. Local authorities identified the gunman as 24-year-old David Katz. He had been participating in a tournament for the Madden football game franchise, and was among those pronounced dead at the scene.

More here:
She said a gamer participating in the e-game tournament told her that the gunman was arguing with another gamer, then went to the back of the venue, where he waited a few minutes before opening fire.

Not sure what could get someone that riled up - losing a game, even one with prize money, doesn't seem like the whole story.
   1961. McCoy Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:09 PM (#5734004)
As everyone not living deep inside a lily white cul-de-sac knows, Flake only pulled this #### now because he'll be vacating his office shortly after the midterms.

As everyone knows you don't apply pressure on people that cannot have pressure applied too. If McConnell wanted to get things done in August he needed to give Flake and others something that was worth it to them. He didn't. Perhaps one should question Mitch's tactics and ability as a leader instead of bvtching about an outgoing senator.
   1962. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5734005)

These investigations are being cheer leaded because Democrats want the results of the election overturned. It doesn't go any deeper than that.
This doesn't get any less stupid the more times you say it. If Trump is removed, Pence, not Hillary, becomes president. That is not overturning the election.

There's no moral code here, any more than "LOCK HER UP!" was a moral code. Democrats have become what they claimed to abhor in Trump.
This also doesn't get any less stupid the more times you say it. Trump was talking about prosecuting his opponent. But if Trump is prosecuted, it will be by his own party, not by Democrats.
   1963. Lassus Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5734006)
Democrats have become what they claimed to abhor in Trump.

This really gives the game away, because in your opinion the Democrats USED to be so morally superior to Trump, right? That time in the past when you imagined them as so much better? Sure.
   1964. bobm Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:25 PM (#5734007)
Dershowitz, an informal Trump adviser, said in an appearance on ABC News’s “This Week” that the expanding probe by prosecutors in the Southern District of New York could spell the greatest peril for Trump because of the lack of constitutional protections for the president at that level


Ray- I understand that the New York AG / NY County DA could expose Trump to state criminal charges beyond his pardon reach. Why would the USAO, SDNY pose such a threat with federal charges?
   1965. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5734008)
No way around it. He's being investigated because people don't like him. The investigations are in search of crimes.


Um, no. He is being investigated - as well you know - because of his actions, including the fact that seemingly everyone associated with him, his campaign, and much of his administration are criminals or criminal curious.

Maybe you have forgotten all the guilty pleas, indictments, and convictions?
   1966. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:31 PM (#5734009)
“I hope those who mourn my passing, and those who don’t, will celebrate as I celebrate a happy life lived in imperfect service to a country made of ideals, whose continued success is the hope of the world. And I wish all of you great adventures, good company, and lives as lucky as mine.”

— Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), writing in his last book, The Restless Wave.
   1967. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:35 PM (#5734010)
This doesn't get any less stupid the more times you say it. If Trump is removed, Pence, not Hillary, becomes president. That is not overturning the election.


Yes, it is, as has been explained to you but your TDS has caused a mental block.

Pence was not elected president; Trump was. Removing the duly elected president overturns the result of the election. By definition. This isn't complicated.
   1968. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:39 PM (#5734011)
This also doesn't get any less stupid the more times you say it. Trump was talking about prosecuting his opponent. But if Trump is prosecuted, it will be by his own party, not by Democrats.


Cheer leaded by Democrats (and you). If Democrats (and you) were saying, this is wrong, he shouldn't be investigated because he won the election and people don't like him, that would be one thing. But Democrats (and you) aren't saying that.

Moreover your statement is wrong on its face. The AG of NY is not "his own party." Nor are prosecutors in the SDNY. "His own party" appointed Mueller, it's true; without basis since collusion was baseless and Trump has a constitutional right to fire the FBI director.
   1969. Srul Itza At Home Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5734012)
Lane dissipates and HAWAII WINS LLWS!

Oh, and if you see this in any of the write-ups (this is from ESPN):

In the stands, Hawai'i's fans, waving tea leaves for luck, started to mix their signature ``Hon-o-lu-lu!'' chants with ``U-S-A!''


No, they are not waving tea leaves.

They are waving ti leaves.

Bit of a difference.
   1970. BDC Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:42 PM (#5734014)
I searched for stories about Jeff Flake being obstructionist, and all I could find was one about Flake blocking a Defense Department grant to MIT to develop robot bartenders.
   1971. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:43 PM (#5734015)
If Democrats (and you) were saying, this is wrong, he shouldn't be investigated because he won the election and people don't like him, that would be one thing.


He shouldn't be investigated because he won the election. He shouldn't be investigated because people don't like him.

Of course he should be investigated for actions he and others have taken and a variety of other circumstances.

Remember when Ray showed similar concerns for all the ridiculous investigations of various Democrats, done because people didn't like them and because they won elections? No? Weird.
   1972. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:44 PM (#5734016)
Dershowitz, an informal Trump adviser, said in an appearance on ABC News’s “This Week” that the expanding probe by prosecutors in the Southern District of New York could spell the greatest peril for Trump because of the lack of constitutional protections for the president at that level

Ray- I understand that the New York AG / NY County DA could expose Trump to state criminal charges beyond his pardon reach. Why would the USAO, SDNY pose such a threat with federal charges?


Because Trump has strong constitutional arguments for the things Mueller is investigating, such as obstruction of justice for firing Comey. Trump very likely wouldn't have to pardon himself for that, because he very likely would never get convicted of that, because it's close to a bogus "crime" and he has a strong constitutional defense for it.

OTOH assuming arguendo he committed campaign finance violations (as far fetched as that notion is at present) or money laundering crimes he wouldn't have built-in constitutional protections for that. So he'd have to flat out pardon himself if it got that far.
   1973. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5734017)
Maybe you have forgotten all the guilty pleas, indictments, and convictions?


Not a single one of them collusion related.
   1974. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:49 PM (#5734019)
Remember when Ray showed similar concerns for all the ridiculous investigations of various Democrats, done because people didn't like them and because they won elections? No? Weird.


You're lying again. I've called Benghazi a bogus witch hunt many times on these pages. You couldn't have missed it.

I've called Whitewater bogus.

Name others and I'm happy to talk about them. Hillary violated 793(f) as even Comey all but conceded, so -- even if one agrees with Comey that she shouldn't have been charged -- and I've always deferred to his viewpoint on that based on the factual precedent -- it's a bit odd to claim that the investigation was ridiculous.
   1975. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:50 PM (#5734020)
No, they are not waving tea leaves.

They are waving ti leaves.

Bit of a difference.


I wouldn't be fooled. I have dozens of ti plants at my house.
   1976. Lassus Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5734021)
Hopefully, this will be the Ward blunder that enables McSally to pull away.

She blamed the press. I wonder if she used the term "opposition media"?
   1977. bobm Posted: August 26, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5734022)
Ray - Thanks.
   1978. McCoy Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:00 PM (#5734023)
Trump is of course being investigated for two reasons. Reason 1 is that he now has power. Reason 2 is because he's a shady character that can be investigated.

Barack Obama didn't have criminal investigations launched on him because he wasn't shady and he didn't leave himself open to that kind of tactic. Bush II same thing.

If your opponent has sex with dogs you hammer them with that. If they do heroin you hammer them with that. If they break the law and do shady things you hammer them with that. This seems kind of obvious and I'm not quite sure why there is all this pearl clutching by people who should have more wisdom than this. Unless of course it is merely laundry cheering as Seinfeld would say.
   1979. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:02 PM (#5734024)
What a classy president......

Trump rejected plans for a White House statement praising McCain
President Trump nixed issuing a statement that praised the heroism and life of Sen. John McCain, telling senior aides he preferred to issue a tweet before posting one Saturday night that did not include any kind words for the late Arizona Republican.

Press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Chief of Staff John F. Kelly and other White House aides advocated for an official statement that gave the decorated Vietnam War POW plaudits for his military and Senate service and called him a “hero,” according to current and former White House aides, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive internal deliberations. The original statement was drafted before McCain died Saturday, and Sanders and others edited a final version this weekend that was ready for the president, the aides said.

But Trump told aides he wanted to post a brief tweet instead, and the statement praising McCain’s life was not released.

“My deepest sympathies and respect go out to the family of Senator John McCain. Our hearts and prayers are with you!” Trump posted Saturday evening shortly after McCain’s death was announced.

Sanders declined to comment Sunday afternoon.

And what a classy party......

In most of the country, McCain is being lauded as a hero. On Arizona’s GOP campaign trail, he’s a pariah.
It’s possible to imagine a world in which Sen. John McCain’s illness and death in office would send all three Republican candidates for Arizona’s other U.S. Senate seat racing to praise him and stake some claim to his immense legacy.

The insurgent conservative candidate, Kelli Ward, might compare her open-press bus tour and unfiltered speaking style to McCain’s old presidential campaigns — his famous “Straight Talk Express.”

Former Maricopa County sheriff Joe Arpaio might use his stump speeches to compare his decades-long political career in Arizona to McCain’s. And Rep. Martha McSally — the pollsters’ favorite to win — might be comparing her résumé of military and congressional experience to that of the Vietnam War pilot and prisoner who became a Washington powerhouse.

The reality is not even close.

The Arizona Republican Party that nurtured McCain and his retiring Senate colleague Jeff Flake, whose seat those candidates are seeking, has been overrun by the party of Donald Trump. For Republican candidates now, the imperative is to embrace the president lest they lose his voters — and many of those voters share Trump’s antipathy to McCain.

In 2018, the Republican candidates have chosen to try to maximize the vote of the party’s invigorated populist base — and hope that the burgeoning numbers of Latino and suburban voters in Arizona are not energized against them.

Ward built her national profile by attacking McCain — and not just for his relatively moderate immigration policies and vote against repealing the Affordable Care Act.

Before McCain was diagnosed with brain cancer, Ward called him an “an 80-year-old man” near “the end of life.” When he was diagnosed last summer, she urged him to “step away as quickly as possible,” and continued to criticize him for missing Senate votes during hospital stays.

When the senator’s office announced — one day before his death on Saturday — that he had stopped treatment for cancer, Ward suggested he had timed the announcement to interfere with her campaign bus tour.

She has since deleted that Facebook post and offered her condolences, but is hardly apologetic. As of Sunday afternoon, Ward’s campaign website bore no mention of McCain’s death, and was still promoting an old statement that calls him “a problem for President Trump’s agenda.”

Arpaio, meanwhile, has spent as much time coming up with creative ways to imprison immigrants as McCain has spent seeking compromises on border enforcement. As a sheriff, he once bragged of building a “concentration camp” for “illegals.” He is only free to run for the Senate because Trump pardoned him after a conviction related to immigration roundups.

Arpaio did take a break from criticizing the senator last week to offer some kind words in McCain’s final hours. But hours later, according to the Arizona Republic, Arpaio raged at McCain’s soon-to-be-widow for blocking him on Twitter. ...

McSally — while not openly attacking McCain — has hardly spoken of him at all as her campaign has tilted further and further to the right. Once more publicly moderate and critical of Trump, she has fully embraced the president during her campaign.

McCain’s daughter Meghan was sharply critical of the congresswoman this month after she mimicked Trump and neglected to mention the full name of the “John S. McCain National Defense Authorization Act.”

“McSally’s inability to even mention my father’s name when discussing the bill named in his honor is disgraceful (just as it was with Trump). I had such higher hopes for the next generation of leadership in my home state,” Meghan McCain wrote. ...

Democratic Rep. Kyrsten Sinema announced late Sunday that she would cease campaigning Wednesday and Thursday “to honor Senator John McCain’s life of service and devotion to our country.” ...
   1980. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:06 PM (#5734025)
It's all downhill from here.
   1981. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:08 PM (#5734026)
"Someone pay attention to me, I'm so provocative!"

Indeed. That characterizes 99% of your posts


That "I'm rubber and you're glue" comeback is a pretty good example of why you're much safer keeping me on ignore.
   1982. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5734028)

Pence was not elected president; Trump was. Removing the duly elected president overturns the result of the election. By definition. This isn't complicated.
You're right: it's not complicated; it's just false. The definition of overturning an election is declaring the other candidate the winner. Pence was elected first-in-the-line-of-succession-if-Trump-leaves, and Pence would become president.

Cheer leaded by Democrats (and you). If Democrats (and you) were saying, this is wrong, he shouldn't be investigated because he won the election and people don't like him, that would be one thing. But Democrats (and you) aren't saying that.
Actually, everyone is saying this. Nobody on the planet is arguing in good faith that Trump is being investigated because he won the election or because people don't like him. Democrats and me are saying that he should be investigated because he's a crook.
Moreover your statement is wrong on its face. The AG of NY is not "his own party." Nor are prosecutors in the SDNY. "His own party" appointed Mueller, it's true; without basis since collusion was baseless and Trump has a constitutional right to fire the FBI director.
Why are you talking about the AG of NY? When Dershowitz said "The New York probe," he made clear that he was talking about the Southern District, not a state investigation. And of course the SDNY is run by a Trump appointee. And Mueller was appointed not merely by Trump's own party, but by someone directly appointed by Trump. (And Mueller is a Republican.) The rest of your claim isn't worth dignifying.
   1983. It was something about the man-spider and sodomy, Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5734029)
That "I'm rubber and you're glue" comeback is a pretty good example of why you're much safer keeping me on ignore.


Don't wrestle with pigs, friend, just tell them "that'll do" and cure them into bacon ...
   1984. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:43 PM (#5734034)
You're right: it's not complicated; it's just false. The definition of overturning an election is declaring the other candidate the winner.


I'm not talking about human definitions.
   1985. McCoy Posted: August 26, 2018 at 10:55 PM (#5734037)
He's talking about robotic definitions, son.
   1986. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5734039)

Since we've been discussing it for the past few days, a tweet from Brian Stelter:
Re: CNN's July 27 story about Cohen claiming that Trump knew in advance about the Trump Tower meeting: "We stand by our story, and are confident in our reporting of it."

9:01 PM - 26 Aug 2018
   1987. Davo (Love Won The Battle Of Stalingrad) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 11:18 PM (#5734040)
@drnifkin
RIP Osama Bin Laden. He might have had some bad ideas but he fought the soviets in the 80s. A war hero is still a war hero even if we disagree on some things
   1988. Count Posted: August 26, 2018 at 11:30 PM (#5734044)
I believe the USAO for the SDNY recused himself (this obviously does not validate Ray's arguments with regards to the validity of investigating criminals).
   1989. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 11:36 PM (#5734046)
Since we've been discussing it for the past few days,


Actually, you stopped discussing it as soon as I pointed to the statement from two of the senators of the senate intelligence committee.

a tweet from Brian Stelter:

Re: CNN's July 27 story about Cohen claiming that Trump knew in advance about the Trump Tower meeting: "We stand by our story, and are confident in our reporting of it."

9:01 PM - 26 Aug 2018


That's nice. The story has been debunked -- unless you want to claim that the two senators on the intelligence committee are lying that Cohen's legal team told them that he stands by his earlier testimony -- a statement that is consistent with Lanny Davis's latest comments on this. Perhaps Cohen's testimony will change in the future but you pointing to Stelter's comment is just a way to fool your... what does SBB call it... target demo.
   1990. perros Posted: August 26, 2018 at 11:45 PM (#5734047)
   1991. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 11:50 PM (#5734049)

what does SBB call it... target demo.
Yes, but SBB is a retard, a fake lawyer, and a troll. It's actually a way to provide an update to a story that we had discussed. CNN's story could be wrong, but it's notable that they are not retracting it, but are instead standing by it even after some politicians have supposedly debunked it.
   1992. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 26, 2018 at 11:57 PM (#5734051)
Ah. So you do think the two senators are lying.

I mean, we'll see, I guess.

In any event the biggest point here is that you've tried to pedant about the CNN story in order to distract from the real story, which is that from all indications (from Lanny Davis, from Cohen's legal team, from the senate intelligence committee) Cohen is not in fact prepared to change his testimony to say that Trump was aware of the infamous meeting.
   1993. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 12:08 AM (#5734053)
tried to pedant about the CNN story in order to distract from the real story
This discussion has always been about the CNN story. Jason brought up the CNN story and complained that CNN had not retracted it. I responded to him.
from all indications (from Lanny Davis, from Cohen's legal team, from the senate intelligence committee)
Now, that's just wrong. The only people who have spoken on the issue are the two senators (who I guess you can argue were speaking for the committee) Davis said only that he personally didn't know what the truth was about Trump's knowledge, and "Cohen's legal team" -- whoever that is, if it isn't just redundant with Davis -- hasn't said anything at all. Meanwhile, CNN stands by its story. So on the one hand we have some politicians and on the other we have some anonymous sources. That's not "all indications"; that's one indication.
   1994. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 12:13 AM (#5734054)

I believe the USAO for the SDNY recused himself (this obviously does not validate Ray's arguments with regards to the validity of investigating criminals).
Berman was recused. Although no reason was announced, I believe the widely-accepted theory was that because at the time the raid on Cohen's office took place, Berman was the interim USA angling for a permanent position, and it would have been a potential conflict for a guy looking for an appointment from Trump to be investigating him (or his close associate). Berman is now the permanent USA, but I guess it's not clear to me whether he ever was unrecused. But if he wasn't, then the guy he appointed, Robert Khuzami, is still running things. So it wouldn't be the guy directly appointed by Trump, but it would be the guy hired by the guy directly appointed by Trump.
   1995. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 27, 2018 at 12:14 AM (#5734055)
Cohen is not in fact prepared to change his testimony to say that Trump was aware of the infamous meeting.

Davis also reiterated that Cohen had never been in Prague, too, contradicting a central assertion of the Steele dossier. What are the chances that Steele somehow got that wrong but was correct on all the unverified, conveniently difficult to disprove stuff?
   1996. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 12:15 AM (#5734056)
from all indications (from Lanny Davis, from Cohen's legal team, from the senate intelligence committee)

Now, that's just wrong. The only people who have spoken on the issue are the two senators (who I guess you can argue were speaking for the committee) Davis said only that he personally didn't know what the truth was about Trump's knowledge, and "Cohen's legal team" -- whoever that is, if it isn't just redundant with Davis -- hasn't said anything at all. Meanwhile, CNN stands by its story. So on the one hand we have some politicians and on the other we have some anonymous sources. That's not "all indications"; that's one indication.


But the politicians would likely have taken additional steps if they weren't satisfied with what they heard from Cohen's legal team. I don't know whether the committee could have subpoenaed Cohen again given his legal situation but they could certainly have either invited him back to testify or they could have simply NOT said that they were satisfied with what they'd heard from his legal team. Or they could have said that they weren't satisfied.

As to Davis, again, his latest statement seems to go beyond "I personally don't know what the truth was about Trump's knowledge." You've tried to claim that it's meaningful that Davis wasn't there but that's such an obvious point that it's a frivolous one. The real point is that Davis certainly knows what his client has told him. And Davis has said that he had to stay silent and couldn't "confirm" or "correct" the CNN story which strongly implies that it was wrong but, yes, congratulations, doesn't actually state that it was wrong.

I'm actually surprised you're making such absurd and pedantic arguments. You really seem like you're allowing your analysis here to be driven by emotion and you can't separate partiality from objectivity. It's an essential skill for a lawyer to be able to separate the two.
   1997. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 12:20 AM (#5734057)
Davis also reiterated that Cohen had never been in Prague, too, contradicting a central assertion of the Steele dossier.


I remember David and others here salivating over the notion that Cohen's claim that he had never been in Prague was about to be debunked. They really have been wrong so many times it's hard to count. And yet with each next piece of analysis or wishcasting they show no awareness or humility that they've been wrong about most of the previous pieces they've offered. It's quite a sight to see.
   1998. Count Posted: August 27, 2018 at 12:35 AM (#5734058)
Davis also reiterated that Cohen had never been in Prague, too, contradicting a central assertion of the Steele dossier. What are the chances that Steele somehow got that wrong but was correct on all the unverified, conveniently difficult to disprove stuff?


The dossier also didn't include the Trump Tower meeting - the Steele dossier likely has lots of incorrect or at best incomplete information, but that's not really relevant to the special counsel investigation.
   1999. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:40 AM (#5734065)
Davis also reiterated that Cohen had never been in Prague, too, contradicting a central assertion of the Steele dossier.
That’s only a central assertion in that it’s one of the few things that can be relatively easily checked. (Which by the same token makes it odd that it would be made up.) It’s certainly not central as a question of fact; it’s not the case that if Cohen didn’t meet Russians in Prague then there’s no collusion. (Or if he met them in Rome or Vienna, or in July rather than in August.). That’s the nature of intelligence-gathering. Not everything people tell you is true. And Steele didn’t represent that it was; he said, “Here’s the raw intel I received.”



As for Ray’s comment about “salivating,” when there was a story about it having been confirmed, I posted it, with appropriate disclaimers about the need for skepticism. Unlike Ray, I don’t post every wrong thing Dershowitz or Dilbert says as though it were brilliant, and then slink away and say “I wasn’t actually agreeing with it,” after the fact every time it’s refuted.
   2000. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:41 AM (#5734070)
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