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Monday, August 20, 2018

OTP 2018 August 20: Sick of divisive summertime politics? Baseball’s thrills offer an escape

First, things starting with the letter “L” come to mind when thinking about this summer.
“The Summer of Lying?” Nah, let’s keep this positive.

It seems like certain politicians and college coaches have been competing in a never-ending race to the bottom of the dishonesty cesspool.
“The Summer of LeBron?” Maybe. But no, LeBron James doesn’t need any more attention.

But his decision to build a new public school for at-risk kids in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, and cover all student costs should be commended by everyone, including the U.S. Secretary of Education and her boss.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 20, 2018 at 07:45 AM | 2230 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   2101. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5734330)
Flip
   2102. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5734332)
   2103. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5734333)
Jason, in all seriousness - if the bulk of "substance" you can offer these days is chortling with glee about something that is actually quite (legitimately) sad, for both sides and everyone in between... I'm trying to parse this, are you laughing at stupid dems for not criticizing a dead GOP properly? Is that meaningful for you?
Except I offer plenty of actual substance.

But regardless, there's no shortage of folks here, from zonkie to Andy to Shredded to the failed pig farmer, who on a regular basis attempt to lump me in with diehard Trumpkins. Well, what's good for the goose...
   2104. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5734334)
2091


A UK based publication run by Glenn Greenwald that's policy positions are so far left they often align with far right talking points, most notably on wikileaks and its relation to the FSB.


So that's why my bullshit detector was going haywire...
   2105. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5734335)
2098

I would have happily voted McCain in 2000; by 2008 he was a ghost of his former self.


This, too. I was all set to vote for him in the 2000 general. Stupid W...
   2106. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5734336)
So that's why my bullshit detector was going haywire...


Jason has linked the Intercept more than any of our "lefties" combined in the past year or so. Politics and bedfellows.
   2107. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5734339)
Jason has linked the Intercept more than any of our "lefties" combined in the past year or so. Politics and bedfellows.


I'd never heard of it until about an hour ago.
   2108. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5734340)
The Intercept is Good.
   2109. zenbitz Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5734341)
This article calls Corbyn anti-semetic for not speaking against a piece that portrayed bankers negatively because of the racial implications of this imagery. Here's a reminder to Rowling's fans what Bankers in a world she created from scratch look like:


Yeah but in Harry Potter universe goblins ("jews" according to this tweet) are one of many oppressed non-wizard minority groups.

Now don't get me started on the Star Trek Ferengi.... (LIGHT THE RAY REPELLENT)
   2110. perros Posted: August 27, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5734343)

A UK based publication run by Glenn Greenwald that's policy positions are so far left they often align with far right talking points, most notably on wikileaks and its relation to the FSB.


Wrong.

Intercept is a subsidiary of New York-based First Look Media, funded by ebay billionaire Pierre Omidyar (and one of Srul's neighbors). There are problems with the whole contraption, with Snowden and Greenwald etc., but they have done some good work, especially that led by co-founder Jeremy Scahill. His podcast Intercepted gives voice to a lot of respected academics and authors, and they've hired on reporters like James Risen not afraid to butt heads with Greenwald.

Try to get your facts right and not always kneejerk into McCarthyite smear.
   2111. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5734344)
But regardless, there's no shortage of folks here, from zonkie to Andy to Shredded to the failed pig farmer, who on a regular basis attempt to lump me in with diehard Trumpkins. Well, what's good for the goose...


And that's how Juannity discovered the difference between self-made choices and lazy insinuation!
   2112. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5734346)
I'd never heard of it until about an hour ago.
Have you heard of Adam Schiff?
   2113. OCF Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5734350)
I think the day may come when a reference to "John S. McCain" in history will be assumed to refer to a man who died in 1945 (died of stress and overwork) whose contributions to the United States exceeded anything his grandson could have done.
   2114. perros Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5734351)
One of my biggest problems with OTPers (and centrist Dems) is how they've rejected the authoritarianism of Trump by fully embracing the American police state, its undemocratic structure and secrecy, and the unquestioning support of planetary warfare.

The whole Russia business is being used primarily an excuse to squelch dissent and smash whistleblowers.
   2115. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5734352)
there's no shortage of folks here, from zonkie to Andy to Shredded to the failed pig farmer, who on a regular basis attempt to lump me in with diehard Trumpkins. Well, what's good for the goose...
So you're morally obligated to sink to whatever level. OK, more power to you, then. No sense in trying to raise the level of conversation when you can rip "lefty pals" by association in snarky fashion.
   2116. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5734356)
Intercept is a subsidiary of New York-based First Look Media, funded by ebay billionaire Pierre Omidyar (and one of Srul's neighbors). There are problems with the whole contraption, with Snowden and Greenwald etc., but they have done some good work, especially that led by co-founder Jeremy Scahill. His podcast Intercepted gives voice to a lot of respected academics and authors, and they've hired on reporters like James Risen not afraid to butt heads with Greenwald.


It's mostly associated with Greenwald, who lived in Britain at least part time and who made his name writing for the Guardian. The Wiki on "First Look Media" is a dumpster fire of hirings and firings, which I didn't know.

The project is a collaboration with Glenn Greenwald, Jeremy Scahill, and Laura Poitras with a promised $250 million in funding from Omidyar.[2][3][4] The organization has announced plans to support multiple publications, the first of which is The Intercept, which launched in February 2014. On March 10, 2014, the company announced the addition of Gawker editor John Cook as editor-in-chief of The Intercept,[5] as well as Natasha Vargas-Cooper and Andrew Jerrell Jones as writers for the site.[6] In June 2014, it was announced that Morgan Marquis-Boire was joining First Look Media as the Director of Security.[7]

A second publication was announced in February 2014 that would focus on financial and political corruption, headed by Matt Taibbi. Although the name of the publication has not been publicly announced, the name Racket has been reportedly chosen.[8] The publication was to be launched autumn 2014[9][10] but in October, it was reported that Taibbi was on leave after "disagreements with higher-ups".[11] On October 28, Omidyar stated in a press release that Taibbi had left First Look.[12]

In December 2014, First Look Media announced the launch of Reported.ly, a social media news service led by Andy Carvin.[13] However, in August 2016, Reported.ly said FLM has "chosen to part ways with us," and was planning to shut down.[14]

In February 2015, senior investigative reporter Ken Silverstein, who had been hired in December 2013, announced his resignation. Writing in Politico, Silverstein described First Look as "a slowly unfolding disaster, not because of editorial meddling from the top, but because of what I came to believe was epic managerial incompetence. …For all of the bean counting and expense account-approving that Omidyar's organizational structure imposed on us, they were shockingly disinterested in the actual journalism. …Top management was so aloof that it was hard to figure out who was in charge."[15]

In January 2015, Betsy Reed joined as the editor in chief of The Intercept, replacing John Cook.[16] Shortly thereafter, she hired Charlotte Greensit as managing editor in April 2015.[17]

In February 2016 First Look Media announced they would be partnering with Matt Bors to relaunch The Nib.[18]

In 2017, First Look Media launched the photo and video website Topic.com.[19] Topic Studios was also launched as part of this.[20]. They have helped produce Roman J. Israel[21], Risk[22], Spotlight and Leave No Trace.[23][24]


Seems fairly clear that the org is effectively run by Greenwald.

Here is the "about us" from the Intercept:

After NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden came forward with revelations of mass surveillance in 2013, journalists Glenn Greenwald, Laura Poitras, and Jeremy Scahill decided to found a new media organization dedicated to the kind of reporting those disclosures required: fearless, adversarial journalism. They called it The Intercept.

Today, The Intercept is an award-winning news organization that covers national security, politics, civil liberties, the environment, international affairs, technology, criminal justice, the media, and more. The Intercept gives its journalists the editorial freedom and legal support they need to pursue investigations that expose corruption and injustice wherever they find it and hold the powerful accountable.

EBay founder and philanthropist Pierre Omidyar provided the funding to launch The Intercept and continues to support it through First Look Media Works, a nonprofit organization.


So it's basically a vanity project of Omidyar that is effectively led by Greenwald and anybody else they can keep on payroll.
   2117. perros Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5734357)

So that's why my bullshit detector was going haywire.

Maybe you should trade it for a geiger counter.
   2118. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5734358)
One of my biggest problems with OTPers (and centrist Dems) is how they've rejected the authoritarianism of Trump by fully embracing the American police state, its undemocratic structure and secrecy, and the unquestioning support of planetary warfare.

The whole Russia business is being used primarily an excuse to squelch dissent and smash whistleblowers.


Quoted for posterity, this is the bizarre mirror image of Trumpkinism. Sigh.
   2119. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5734361)
JE, your shtick of OMG LOOK AT THESE LEFTIES is really getting super-old.


Except I offer plenty of actual substance.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOL!
   2120. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5734362)
Posted by Davo, #2102:
@unabanned
This article calls Corbyn anti-semetic for not speaking against a piece that portrayed bankers negatively because of the racial implications of this imagery. Here's a reminder to Rowling's fans what Bankers in a world she created from scratch look like:

It gets much worse.
Big Step Backward: J.K. Rowling Has Revealed That Dementors Are The Wizarding World’s Version Of Italians

Buckle up, Harry Potter fans, because J.K. Rowling’s latest bombshell about the series definitely isn’t doing anything for inclusivity: The bestselling author has revealed that Dementors are the wizarding world’s version of Italians.

Yikes. This is a huge step backward for society. Looks like the road for all communities to get proper representation just got a little longer.

Fans of the series were in for a rude surprise when they logged onto Twitter this morning and saw that Rowling had said the evil, soul-sucking creatures represent Italians in the Harry Potter universe:
J.K. Rowling:
There's something i recently realize I need to clarify about the series: Dementors are wizarding world's version of Italians.
They fly around looking for souls to steal. All happiness leaves the room when they appear. They worship the Dark Lord and have no eyes, which I think is a clear metaphor for being Italian.
I'm a bit shocked no one picked up on this. Wish I could tell 32-year-old me not to worry that I was making Dementors too obviously Italian when I wrote that their kiss is a fate worse than death.
Think about it. The only job they've ever held was being prison guards, and they couldn't even do that right. Italians. Clear as day.
Wow. Well, we can count on Rowling to keep the updates about the series coming, so hopefully she’s got some really enlightened announcements up her sleeve, seeing as it’s going to take a pretty groundbreaking revelation in order to make up for this regressive move. Needless to say, this declaration’s not bringing any readers a sense of empowerment.
   2121. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5734363)
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOL!
LOL.
   2122. perros Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5734364)
So it's basically a vanity project of Omidyar that is effectively led by Greenwald and anybody else they can keep on payroll.

Greenwald moved to Brazil some years back due to harrassment by the UK. I have problems with him and the whole setup of privatising the Snowden stuff (problems with Snowden himself, Assange, and other self-appointed crusaders), but what we're witnessing is the demise of a free press (such as it was). NYT and WaPo have long institutional histories stretching back to newspaper heydey, but Carlos Slim and Jeff Bezos aren't into owning newspapers because they believe in the old mission.

Scahill's a lefty, but he's done really good work over the years, particularly taking on Erik Prince. We need less questioning of sources (a la POTUS) and more critical engagement with content. You don't have to be a fan of any of these people to be in favor of more government transparency and the free flow of information.
   2123. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5734365)
Andy, you were asking for more info on the shooter?

Here you go:
BREAKING: Court records: Man accused of killings at video gaming competition had been hospitalized for mental illness.

If accurate, his hospitalization should have stopped the legal purchase of any firearm. But maybe some anti-2A folks want to step up and offer thoughts?
   2124. perros Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:27 PM (#5734366)
I'm in favor of letting Sam practice his curb-stomping technique on you silly ##### screwing up the page.
   2125. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5734368)
No matter who's doing it & why, the whole LOL thing is obnoxious, stupid & I would say self-damning on its face. Not for nothing was it included in some listicle I glanced at a couple of weeks ago advising no one over a certain age (like, maybe, 12) to ever, ever sink to resorting to it at this late date.
   2126. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5734369)
Concession accepted.
   2127. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5734371)
Neontaster:
The Vox writer who said you could draw a straight line from McCain to Trump was right, but not for the reasons she thinks she is. I think the treatment of McCain during his campaign was a herald of Trumpism to come. Old media tweets from 2008 being dredged up help illustrate this
Yup.


James Hasson:
Completely agree. A chunk of the base watched McCain be civil, get smeared, and lose. Then they watched Romney be civil, get smeared, and lose. So they concluded the nominee would be smeared regardless, norms didn’t matter, and only winning elections mattered. Enter Trump.
Also yup.
   2128. perros Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5734374)
Quoted for posterity, this is the bizarre mirror image of Trumpkinism. Sigh


Let's hope OTP is not once again representative of the Trump opposition that worked so well in 2016, and that now advocates Democrats running some lousy old coot like Biden in 2020. Hopefully enough women (of color) are elected to go with the new rules to stop that retrograde bullshit in its tracks.

I gotta leave you ignoramuses for a bit. Feel free to play with matches in my absence.


PS -- lock the gate behind me.
   2129. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5734375)
Scahill's a lefty, but he's done really good work over the years, particularly taking on Erik Prince. We need less questioning of sources (a la POTUS) and more critical engagement with content. You don't have to be a fan of any of these people to be in favor of more government transparency and the free flow of information.


I'm all for the free flow of information, just not when the "free flow" is a carefully controlled valve operated by the FSB and parroted by useful idiots like Greenwald. The problem with Greenwald and his ilk on the left is they think that the Truth will set people free. Ha. As if such a thing even exists and ever will.
   2130. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:43 PM (#5734379)
Jason, in all seriousness - if the bulk of "substance" you can offer these days is chortling with glee about something that is actually quite (legitimately) sad, for both sides and everyone in between... I'm trying to parse this, are you laughing at stupid dems for not criticizing a dead GOP properly? Is that meaningful for you?

Except I offer plenty of actual substance


Technically true, because poop is a substance.
   2131. BDC Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5734382)
I was all set to vote for him in the 2000 general. Stupid W...


I disagreed with John McCain so thoroughly that I was fixing to vote for W in the Republican Primary in 2000. I may actually have done so! But by that point in the season Bush had the nomination in the bag and there was little point in voting at all (it being Texas anyway; looking it up, Bush won 88% of the R vote in a winner-take-all primary here). I honestly forget what I ended up doing. I know didn't vote in the D primary, and it's not like me to sit home.

George W Bush was a relatively benign governor, for a Republican. I greatly preferred him to McCain. And I have a nice thing or three saved up to say about 43 if I outlive him, too (far from a given).

Then after a decent interval I will go back to bashing everybody in that benighted party :)
   2132. zenbitz Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5734383)
It really is a shame that Democrats smeared Romney and McCain ljke that. After all Republicans never smeared Clinton or Obama or Kerry or Gore or other Clinton or Dukakis or Mondale or Carter or need I go on?
   2133. zenbitz Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:46 PM (#5734386)
BREAKING: Court records: Man accused of killings at video gaming competition had been hospitalized for mental illness.


Oh, so he's a white dude.
   2134. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5734389)
But regardless, there's no shortage of folks here, from zonkie to Andy to Shredded to the failed pig farmer, who on a regular basis attempt to lump me in with diehard Trumpkins. Well, what's good for the goose...

And that's how Juannity discovered the difference between self-made choices and lazy insinuation!

I know none of this will penetrate Juannity's thick skull, but:
a) The reason he gets lumped in with the Trumpkins is because he goes out of his way to attack or deflect any criticism of Trump (usually with personal attacks, or 'juanabout Clinton). As well as attacking pretty much anybody involved in the investigation, doing everything possible to discredit them.
In short, he gets lumped in with Trumpkins due to his own actions, not through association alone. (Similarly why Ray gets lumped in, and David does not, despite both being nominally libertarians.)

b) Do I even want to know who the 'failed pig farmer' is? Could be me for all I know, Juannity's attacks have long since stopped making much sense.
But FTR, I respect most farmers. In my experience, they tend to be hard working, and fairly honest people, as things go. So I see no reason to use that term as an insult.
Regardless, if a lefty here had made a similar remark, we would have 3 pages of discussion about how the left resents working class white people... So hey, maybe somebody should point out, that the elitists on the right have just as much disdain for them, if not more.

c)Don't be ridiculous. Juannity is long since past the point of being capable of learning anything. Much less something as nuanced as introspection.
   2135. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5734390)
But regardless, there's no shortage of folks here, from zonkie to Andy to Shredded to the failed pig farmer, who on a regular basis attempt to lump me in with diehard Trumpkins.


Juan is such a shameful putz. Not only have I been more successful in raising pigs than he has been at anything in his sad life, but the fact that he considers repeatedly calling me a “pig farmer” insulting is a damning indictment of his own effete, insular, sissified elitism. No Juan, you sad sack of a Sweathog, there’s nothing wrong with farming. The fact that you’ve apparently internalized the white supremecist belief that Jews consider themselves too good for farm work just further illustrates what a good little antisemite you’ll cosplay as the very moment it becomes expedient.

EDIT: a similar point made in 2134. Juan hates the idea of physical labor and thinks farmers constitute some sort of peasantry for him to sneer at. It’s the most repulsive form of elitism imaginable. Every farmer I’ve ever worked with has been a fundamentally decent person.

Oh yeah, I also raised chickens. Ross708 4 life, god’s own broiler. I suppose the schmucks who made the raw materials for the chicken soup Juan’s bubbe made were losers too.
   2136. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5734391)
It really is a shame that Democrats smeared Romney and McCain ljke that. After all Republicans never smeared Clinton or Obama or Kerry or Gore or other Clinton or Dukakis or Mondale or Carter or need I go on?


Is that really the Republicans’ fault? Or is it the Democrats’ fault for consistently nominating communists who hate America?
   2137. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5734392)
It really is a shame that Democrats smeared Romney and McCain ljke that. After all Republicans never smeared Clinton or Obama or Kerry or Gore or other Clinton or Dukakis or Mondale or Carter or need I go on?

It does take some chutzpah to insist that it was McCain and Romney that were treated unfairly, and not the evil, muslim, terrorist, Kenyan Obummer. But hey 'alternative facts' are just as good as real ones these days.
   2138. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5734394)
Oh, so he's a white dude.
Yup, just like James Hodgkinson.
   2139. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:55 PM (#5734396)
Christ, JE, what complete and total horseshit. (already covered, so cokes) If only Obama had been less civil, or not been smeared. Beyond pathetic.

BTW, your new best friend Rowling, who spoke up rightfully, thinks Trump and their supporters are pathetic, as as lefty and liberal and anti-Trump as they come. Her and other lefty liberals, those who are the real western anti-semitism problem, as per yourself.
   2140. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 04:57 PM (#5734397)
You can’t compare Obama to anyone who had a real birth certificate and wasn’t an African jungle savage.
   2141. TDF, trained monkey Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5734403)
Completely agree. A chunk of the base watched McCain be civil, get smeared, and lose. Then they watched Romney be civil, get smeared, and lose. So they concluded the nominee would be smeared regardless, norms didn’t matter, and only winning elections mattered. Enter Trump.

Also yup.
Required, every single time one of you dumbasses says such a dumbass thing.
   2142. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5734405)
Christ, JE, what complete and total horshit. If only Obama had been less civil, or not been smeared. Beyond pathetic.
Back in '08, civil rights icon John Lewis compared McCain to Wallace. And some of us don't forget ABGL desperately trying to tie McCain to an extramarital affair. Biden claiming that Romney would "put y'all back in chains." And what exactly does "war" in "#WarOnWomen" mean?

In contrast, McCain was too soft in the spring of 2008 to have his campaign demand that Obama come clean on his relationship with Wright.
   2143. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5734407)
as as lefty and liberal and anti-Trump as they come. Her and other lefty liberals, those who are the real western anti-semitism problem, as per yourself.
Hence, "[w]hen you've even lost JK Rowling..."
   2144. TDF, trained monkey Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5734408)
So I've been busy today. First time I've checked in, and don't feel like going through the thread.

Has JE justified Trump not flying the flag on the WH at half-staff by saying Obama never did for an R senator?
   2145. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5734410)
JE, your shtick of OMG LOOK AT THESE LEFTIES is really getting super-old.
Maybe that's it.

Trump has taken over the party; he is the new GOP. I think what makes the shtick tiresome, whether it be JE or Clapper or whomever, is that from "the left" it's all "here's the stupid thing Trump did" (or, Trump crony). Granted, that's getting old too, but on the other hand, Trump (& Co.) keep doing stupid things. Whereas "the right" is increasingly relying on House Reps, or failed candidates for same, or comments from their supporters, or wacky op-ed pieces, and putting those forth as if they bore equal weight as the voice of the party.

There will always be fringies to mock; POTUS Trump and the awfulness of his cronies, as standard bearers for the GOP and representatives of the USA, is something all hinged people should be appalled by. Any and all attempts to normalize the awfulness is equally appalling. It seems like the Jason of 2015 would have agreed. I don't see David Gergen or SE Cupp wasting their time sniping at minor Dems (and declaring VICTORY! LOLZ!) when there's so much to address within.
   2146. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:11 PM (#5734412)
Back in '08, civil rights icon John Lewis compared McCain to Wallace. And some of us don't forget ABGL desperately trying to tie McCain to an extramarital affair. Biden claiming that Romney would "put y'all back in chains." And what exactly does "war" in "#WarOnWomen" mean?

All that was repeated here in 2008, as well as the claim that McCain's injuries left him unfit to be president, "too temperamental" if not unbalanced. Those only interested in using John McCain as a cudgel against the current White House occupant might want to check their own comments from that time before proceeding further.
   2147. RoyalFlush Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5734413)
Has JE justified Trump not flying the flag on the WH at half-staff by saying Obama never did for an R senator?


Of course he has. He said Trump was "technically" correct regarding not lowering the flag at the WH.

But to his credit, JE at least admitted Trump was classless. But not wrong.
   2148. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:14 PM (#5734414)
Has JE justified Trump not flying the flag on the WH at half-staff by saying Obama never did for an R senator?
#2011 says hi.
   2149. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5734415)
Has JE justified Trump not flying the flag on the WH at half-staff by saying Obama never did for an R senator?

Could have been done longer, and through the Washington, DC funeral service strikes me as the right interval, but the flag at the WH was flown at half staff over the weekend.
   2150. Traderdave Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5734416)

All that was repeated here in 2008, as well as the claim that McCain's injuries left him unfit to be president, "too temperamental" if not unbalanced.


2008 copied that from 2000, when Karl Rove spread those and other nasty rumors about McCain.
   2151. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5734417)
Rowling is a weenie Blairite centrist Tory, she’s been grasping at straws to bash Labour ever since she became a millionaire, this ain’t new.
   2152. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:17 PM (#5734418)
I don't see David Gergen or SE Cupp wasting their time sniping at minor Dems (and declaring VICTORY! LOLZ!) when there's so much to address within.


Or Max Boot. Or Amada Carpenter. Or Anna Navarro. Or Rick Wilson. Or Mark McKinnon...
   2153. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:17 PM (#5734419)
Has JE justified Trump not flying the flag on the WH at half-staff by saying Obama never did for an R senator?
#2011 says hi.
   2154. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5734420)
Back in '08, civil rights icon John Lewis compared McCain to Wallace. And some of us don't forget ABGL desperately trying to tie McCain to an extramarital affair. Biden claiming that Romney would "put y'all back in chains." And what exactly does "war" in "#WarOnWomen" mean?

This has quite literally nothing to do with what you quoted. Good work.
   2155. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5734421)
David Gergen
Dude, conservatives have tuned out David Gergen since David Gergen visited Washington with his fourth-grade classmates.
   2156. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5734422)
Could have been done longer, and through the Washington, DC funeral service strikes me as the right interval, but the flag at the WH was flown at half staff over the weekend.
And apparently it's back at half-mast and will remain there until the funeral.
   2157. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5734424)
Whereas "the right" is increasingly relying on House Reps, or failed candidates for same, or comments from their supporters, or wacky op-ed pieces, and putting those forth as if they bore equal weight as the voice of the party.
What "wacky op-ed pieces" concern you?
   2158. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:27 PM (#5734426)
Jim Brown speaks about Trump:
“I should be criticizing Trump on every level because he does certain things that call for criticism,” Brown said.
“But when I look at television I see all these announcers become experts, and they’re pointing the fingers, and they’re not doing a doggone thing but pointing their fingers, I find myself really pulling for the president.”
The 82-year-old continued, “Now, that would make me very unpopular in the black community, very unpopular with a lot of Americans, but I think that there are certain good things that are coming out of this presidency because we’ve never seen anything like it.”

OK, whose turn is it to administer CPR to our dear Andy...?
   2159. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:28 PM (#5734427)
And apparently it's back at half-mast and will remain there until the funeral.

Too bad they didn't just use your statement and leave it where it was. You out-Trumped Trump, Mr. Technically Correct. Congratulations.
   2160. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5734428)
I guess JE's decided when athletes should be heard and when they should just dribble. We all clear now?
   2161. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:31 PM (#5734429)
And apparently it's back at half-mast and will remain there until the funeral.


That's good. And it's the respectful thing to do. Now why was it raised in the first place? I'm actually not asking for ask answer. The answer is obvious.

Better to do the right thing, after being told your previous actions were wrong than not changing, but jeez. Maybe don't do the wrong thing in the first place for once maybe?
   2162. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:31 PM (#5734430)
Do we automatically disqualify any athletes from farming backgrounds?
   2163. perros Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:35 PM (#5734433)
I'm all for the free flow of information, just not when the "free flow" is a carefully controlled valve operated by the FSB


OTP's nearly complete ignorance of FBI/CIA history of democratic subversion in the US, including massive spying and propaganda campaigns against citizens, makes it impossible to hold even a rudimentary discussion. AFAIK, FSB has had the slightest role duping the American public compared to our own government.

...they think that the Truth will set people free. Ha. As if such a thing even exists and ever will.


LOL
   2164. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:36 PM (#5734434)
Get ready for the Everything Bubble.

See, it’s funny cuz we’re gonna die.
   2165. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:38 PM (#5734435)
Too bad they didn't just use your statement and leave it where it was. You out-Trumped Trump, Mr. Technically Correct. Congratulations.
I don't know what this means.
   2166. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:43 PM (#5734437)
It means you're a dope, Juan.
   2167. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:44 PM (#5734438)
Good news! More judicial nominations today. I'm sure diversity advocates will applaud the female nominees for the 4th & 9th Circuits, although that doesn't seem to affect the confirmation votes of Democratic Senators much. They, and the 4 lower court nominees, will probably have to wait until next year for confirmation.
   2168. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:45 PM (#5734439)
I guess JE's decided when athletes should be heard and when they should just dribble. We all clear now?


Not unlike last spring when the right became huge "Kayne" West fans overnight after endlessly telling everyone that celebrities should shut up about their political ideologies.
   2169. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:45 PM (#5734440)
Has JE justified Trump not flying the flag on the WH at half-staff by saying Obama never did for an R senator?

#2011 says hi.


#2148 asks if there's an echo in here.
   2170. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5734441)
Are you centrist civility freaks gonna pull this same #### when Kissinger finally does? How about GWB?
   2171. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:57 PM (#5734445)
But but but everyone KNEW he was a despicable racist. I know this because Andy assured me it's true.
   2172. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:57 PM (#5734446)
JE, #2156:
Could have been done longer, and through the Washington, DC funeral service strikes me as the right interval, but the flag at the WH was flown at half staff over the weekend.

And apparently it's back at half-mast and will remain there until the funeral.

It only happened because the American Legion contacted the White House and said "Cut the crap."

A great day for LGBQ leadership-- Trump gets to look like a prick AND a pussy.
   2173. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:58 PM (#5734448)
Are you centrist civility freaks gonna pull this same #### when Kissinger finally does? How about GWB?


Your schtick is getting old. At any rate, if powers above my pay grade decide that Kissinger or W will get state funerals, and the occupant in the WH, whoever it is, decides to disrespect the decedent by raising the flag after just 24 hours, I will hold the same view.
   2174. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:03 PM (#5734453)
Your schtick is getting old.
But he just got here. :)
   2175. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:06 PM (#5734455)
I think the White House flag thing is overstated. And this is coming from a big McCain supporter. Reminds me of the whole Princess Di brouhaha over lowering the flag. Trump could have had the White House issue a nice statement with the standard boilerplate.

I don't think McCain or Romney were attacked but that is politics. I think McCain could have gone after Obama a lot more on the Reverand Wright issue. That would have been fair politics.
   2176. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:07 PM (#5734456)
Last one for now...

UNITED STATES–MEXICO TRADE FACT SHEET: Modernizing NAFTA to be a 21st Century Trade Agreement:
LABOR

One of President Trump’s principal objectives in the renegotiation is to ensure the agreement benefits American workers. The United States and Mexico have agreed to a Labor chapter that brings labor obligations into the core of the agreement, makes them fully enforceable, and represents the strongest provisions of any trade agreement.

Key Achievement: Worker Representation in Collective Bargaining

The Labor chapter includes an Annex on Worker Representation in Collective Bargaining in Mexico, under which Mexico commits to specific legislative actions to provide for the effective recognition of the right to collective bargaining.

Key Achievement: Labor Rights Recognized by the International Labor Organization

The Labor chapter requires the Parties to adopt and maintain in law and practice labor rights as recognized by the International Labor Organization, to effectively enforce their labor laws, and not to waive or derogate from their labor laws.

Additionally, the chapter includes new provisions to take measures to prohibit the importation of goods produced by forced labor, to address violence against workers exercising their labor rights, and to ensure that migrant workers are protected under labor laws.

Key Achievement: New Labor Value Content Rule

To support North American jobs, the deal requires new trade rules of origin to drive higher wages by requiring that 40-45 percent of auto content be made by workers earning at least $16 USD per hour.
Emphasis mine.

This part seems particularly interesting.
   2177. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:09 PM (#5734458)
Ironically Trump cares more about Mexicans making a living wage than he does cheap consumer goods -- including cars -- for Americans. It's a bit of an odd turn.
   2178. zenbitz Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:13 PM (#5734459)
See, it’s funny cuz we’re gonna die.


We are gonna die anyway.
   2179. greenback slays lewks Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:14 PM (#5734461)
Similarly why Ray gets lumped in, and David does not, despite both being nominally libertarians.

Ray is about as libertarian as Bernie Sanders.
   2180. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:23 PM (#5734466)
Similarly why Ray gets lumped in, and David does not, despite both being nominally libertarians.

Ray is about as libertarian as Bernie Sanders.

Hence the use of 'nominally' in my statement.
   2181. TDF, trained monkey Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:26 PM (#5734467)
2153. Stormy JE Posted: August 27, 2018 at 05:17 PM (#5734419)

Has JE justified Trump not flying the flag on the WH at half-staff by saying Obama never did for an R senator?

#2011 says hi.
Ha! Trick question.

Much like his "No SCOTUS justice ever decided to die during a presidential election, so the GOP is right to hold up Obama's pick" crap, no R senator died while Obama was POTUS.
2149. The Yankee Clapper

Could have been done longer, and through the Washington, DC funeral service strikes me as the right interval, but the flag at the WH was flown at half staff over the weekend.
Not "over the weekend"; until midnight the following day as prescribed in the US Flag Code. So leave it to Trump to do the bare minimum.
   2182. TDF, trained monkey Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:28 PM (#5734469)
The Labor chapter includes an Annex on Worker Representation in Collective Bargaining in Mexico, under which Mexico commits to specific legislative actions to provide for the effective recognition of the right to collective bargaining.
Oh, the irony...
   2183. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:32 PM (#5734470)
From a press event today:

REPORTER: Mr. President, do you have any thoughts about John McCain?

DONALD TRUMP: Thank you.

REPORTER: Do you have any thoughts at all about John McCain?

DONALD TRUMP: [silence]

REPORTER: Do you believe John McCain was a hero, sir?

DONALD TRUMP: [silence] Thank you.

REPORTER: Nothing at all about John McCain?

DONALD TRUMP:
   2184. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:44 PM (#5734475)
   2185. Omineca Greg Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:48 PM (#5734477)
Elvis paying tribute to a farmer.

And people say Elvis' movies suck...
   2186. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 27, 2018 at 06:51 PM (#5734478)
#2184:
Things are tightening up in Texas.


Ted Cruz 38%, Beto O’Rourke 37%.

Even after making sure to ignore all context and history, that’s even worse than Tammy Baldwin!

In the same poll, Cruz has a minus-6% favorability overall, and minus-32% among independent voters.

But Cruz is a money machine, raking in $26.23 million in donations. That's why he leads O'Rourke's total by... $32,000.

However, O'Rourke has $4.6 million more cash on hand today than Cruz.
   2187. BDC Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:07 PM (#5734481)
Oh, nobody likes Ted Cruz. His path to the Republican nomination for Senate was basically to get enough votes to hang on till the next round. His actual core of positive support is frighteningly tiny.

But he will have (R) after his name this November, and he will win, by however ominously low a margin (and anything in single digits, believe me, is ominous for the GOP).

If Beto wins, April will see me taking a big fat copy of Infinite Jest to all Ranger home games in their last year in the sweltering Ballpark :-D
   2188. BDC Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:13 PM (#5734482)
Beto O'Rourke, BTW, recently gave an eloquent defense of NFL players kneeling for the anthem. Cruz has been all over this like white on rice, but Beto just looks better and better for his principled position:

Asked if players protesting during the national anthem was disrespectful, O'Rourke responded that he could "think of nothing more American” than peacefully protesting for a cause one feels strongly about.


I had an interesting moment at the Ballpark a few games ago. National Anthem: I do stand and put the hat over the heart. My son is in the military and he does that, and I do too. Fair enough.

Anyway, a lot of us are standing hat in hand out in the concourse, and one dude is at a table, hat on, scarfing up some freedom fries. I look at him. I must be looking daggers, because he turns pale (white guy, yes :) and takes his hat off, stands, waits the anthem out.

The funny thing is that if he'd taken a knee, I would have been delighted. Do something, man. Don't just sit there and stuff your face.
   2189. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:26 PM (#5734487)
Asked if players protesting during the national anthem was disrespectful, O'Rourke responded that he could "think of nothing more American” than peacefully protesting for a cause one feels strongly about.


Of course, this was reported with a poorly worded headline that O'Rourke could "think of nothing more American" than "protesting the National Anthem." *facepalm*
   2190. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:28 PM (#5734488)
From a press event today:

REPORTER: Mr. President, do you have any thoughts about John McCain?

DONALD TRUMP: Thank you.

REPORTER: Do you have any thoughts at all about John McCain?

DONALD TRUMP: [silence]

REPORTER: Do you believe John McCain was a hero, sir?

DONALD TRUMP: [silence] Thank you.

REPORTER: Nothing at all about John McCain?

DONALD TRUMP:


Needs the pic of President Alpha sitting there, arms folded.
   2191. Traderdave Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:38 PM (#5734492)
Should I even bother to mention the apoplectic rage his supporters would be in if any other president failed to bow down and praise a war hero with crazed gusto, or is that just too obvious a point to make anymore?
   2192. Howie Menckel Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:45 PM (#5734496)
Is ACLU's conclusion controversial here?
(may owe several Cokes as I have been less than diligent in keeping up in August's dog days)
ACLU Legal Director David Cole:

"It’s no secret that New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is no fan of the National Rifle Association. A mailer his campaign sent to New York voters this week proclaims, in bold letters: “If the NRA goes bankrupt, I will remember them in my thoughts and prayers.”

There’s nothing wrong with the governor singling out a political adversary for criticism, or even mockery. That’s just politics, and the NRA itself is no stranger to hardball tactics.

But in a lawsuit the NRA filed against Cuomo this spring, the organization contends that he did more than criticize it. The NRA alleges that Cuomo and top members of his administration abused their regulatory authority over financial institutions to threaten New York banks and insurers that associate with the NRA or other “gun promotion” groups, and that those threats have jeopardized the NRA’s access to basic insurance and banking services in New York.

In the ACLU’s view, targeting a nonprofit advocacy group and seeking to deny it financial services because it promotes a lawful activity (the use of guns) violates the First Amendment......

"here the state has admitted, in its own words, that it focused on the NRA and other groups not because of any illegal conduct, but because they engage in “gun promotion” — in other words, because they advocate a lawful activity.

Substitute Planned Parenthood or the Communist Party for the NRA, and the point is clear. If Cuomo can do this to the NRA, then conservative governors could have their financial regulators threaten banks and financial institutions that do business with any other group whose political views the governor opposes."
   2193. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:47 PM (#5734499)
Not sure which OT thread this belongs in, but anyone else watch "Who Is America?"

Can't remember a more enthralling/surreal/depressing viewing experience. I believe Cohen has said there won't be a second season, but I'm hoping that's more misdirection.

And I'm disappointed the Palin bit didn't make it. Presumably, it's because he couldn't get her to make a fool of herself. But how could that be?
   2194. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 27, 2018 at 07:58 PM (#5734505)
2193- That meeting he had to announce the building of a Mosque....It was like “Yep, we should definitely try to compromise with these people, yep.”
   2195. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: August 27, 2018 at 08:02 PM (#5734508)
Anyway, a lot of us are standing hat in hand out in the concourse, and one dude is at a table, hat on, scarfing up some freedom fries. I look at him. I must be looking daggers, because he turns pale (white guy, yes :) and takes his hat off, stands, waits the anthem out.

The funny thing is that if he'd taken a knee, I would have been delighted. Do something, man. Don't just sit there and stuff your face.


A few months ago, I was at a local watering hole which had live music that day. The front man says "And now we are going to play a song to honor America and the troops. Stand up if you feel like it, or don't if that's your choice. We have freedom here, so that you dan do what you want." (or words to that effect.) They then begin playing Lee Greenwood's "Proud to be an American." Everyone stands, except my wife and I, who are quite possibly the only veterans in the place. We weren't protesting anything, just didn't feel the need to stand up for that song*. Boy, the hate rays we got from a bunch of standing dipshits...

* which was our Air Force pilot training class anthem, but that was several lifetimes ago.
   2196. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: August 27, 2018 at 08:17 PM (#5734514)
2193- That meeting he had to announce the building of a Mosque....It was like “Yep, we should definitely try to compromise with these people, yep.”

Well, they scoured the internet looking for idiots to easily rile up, and they succeeded. When people speak of trying to find common ground with people on the other side, that group isn't really what they're referring to.

I thought that bit fell kind of flat, actually. The way he humiliates random idiots makes me deeply uncomfortable (though I can't turn my eyes away), and is it really a surprise that a bunch of MAGA types in Arizona wouldn't want a megamosque in their town? The only real laugh it generated from me was when the one guy asked, "Is there really a need for a $300,000,000 mosque here?" Everyone else became so hysterical at the mere mention of the mosque that I thought that very obvious question was going to go unasked.
   2197. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 27, 2018 at 08:35 PM (#5734521)
But regardless, there's no shortage of folks here, from zonkie to Andy to Shredded to the failed pig farmer, who on a regular basis attempt to lump me in with diehard Trumpkins.

For the past two years you've done nothing but ignore, deny, or attempt to minimize Donald Trump's racism. That alone says it all.

You'll tut-tut one of his comments now and then, but you'll never put 2 and 2 together and reach the obvious conclusion.

Again, if Trump had barred Jews from his apartments----if he'd barred your parents because of their ethnicity----you wouldn't be making feeble excuses for his racism by saying he treats all people equally badly. You'd be ashamed to look yourself in the mirror if you came up with a line like that. Until you face up to and condemn the basic racist character of your party's leader, you'll deserve every bit of mockery and derision directed your way.
   2198. Srul Itza Posted: August 27, 2018 at 08:42 PM (#5734525)
Trump has taken over the party; he is the new GOP.


In most respects, he is actually the OLD GOP, but with the mask off.
   2199. Srul Itza Posted: August 27, 2018 at 08:43 PM (#5734528)
Any and all attempts to normalize the awfulness is equally appalling.


Too late. This is the new normal. Defining deviancy down has reached its logical conclusion.
   2200. Srul Itza Posted: August 27, 2018 at 08:53 PM (#5734531)
Oh, nobody likes Ted Cruz. . . .

But he will have (R) after his name this November, and he will win, by however ominously low a margin (and anything in single digits, believe me, is ominous for the GOP)


These statements seem to be in conflict.

Any OTHER Republican running, and the margin would be so large that it would not be worth the effort to talk about it.

Cruz, however, is just so distasteful that it cuts into that margin.

The thing I wonder about, from a "What do Texans think?" aspect, is to what extent Cruz's rolling over and playing dead for Trump, after Trump insulted Cruz's wife and his father, plays any role in this? Trump is probably hugely popular in all the Non-Austin, Non-Latino parts of the State. So Cruz had to make nice. But does it not bother the Manly Texans -- the fact that he seems to have even less spine than Speaker Ryan and less sack than McConnell?
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