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Tuesday, August 28, 2018

OTP 2018 August 27: Pitching politics

George Washington was known to throw a ball—for hours, reported one soldier under his command—with his aide-de-camp during the Revolutionary War. Abraham Lincoln would join baseball games on the lawn of Blair House, which still stands across Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House. “I remember how vividly he ran, how long were his strides, how far his coattails stuck out behind,” the home’s owner, Francis Preston Blair, recalled in a letter to his grandson.

The story of baseball in the United States is intertwined with that of the presidency, says Curt Smith, a senior lecturer in English and the author of The Presidents and the Pastime: The History of Baseball and the White House (University of Nebraska Press, 2018). He traces the points of connection from the colonial era to the present, devoting a chapter to each president since William Howard Taft, who in 1910 inaugurated the practice of the president throwing out a ceremonial first pitch.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 28, 2018 at 07:27 AM | 1644 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   101. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5734937)
The issue is not whether Davis, or Cohen, are lying sacks of ####. They are. Stipulated.


As proof, please note the law degrees.
   102. RoyalFlush Posted: August 28, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5734938)
Their Greatest Conservative Songs has some wonderful trolling:


This is the best page on the Internet.

In someone's world, Fast Car by Tracy Chapman is a country anthem dedicated to conservative value of moving to the suburbs and buying a bigger house.
   103. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: August 28, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5734939)
In someone's world, Fast Car by Tracy Chapman is a country anthem dedicated to conservative value of moving to the suburbs and buying a bigger house.


lol, step up your game YR.
   104. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 28, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5734940)
Primey for #64.
   105. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: August 28, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5734944)
I, for one, promise to never vote Lanny Davis for President.
   106. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 28, 2018 at 02:38 PM (#5734946)
@prisonplanet
LOL Kissinger is speaking at McCain funeral. Of course he is.

@cushbomb
Having the dude who personally sabotaged peace negotiations in the war you were a prisoner in so you’d spend 4 1/2 more years as a captive speak at your funeral is definitely Putting Country First. #respect
   107. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: August 28, 2018 at 02:42 PM (#5734948)
Their Greatest Conservative Songs has some wonderful trolling:


Led Zeppelin -Stairway to Heaven -
A great Christian classic by one of the most well-known bands!
lol

Rush - Red Barchetta -
Tells the story of a future with excessive regulation, where even driving is illegal.
I guess, technically...

   108. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 02:42 PM (#5734949)
In someone's world, Fast Car by Tracy Chapman is a country anthem dedicated to conservative value of moving to the suburbs and buying a bigger house.

lol, step up your game YR.


Well ####.

Don't forget "driving, driving in my car" is obviously a rejection of the liberal mindset that we reduce our carbon footprint and all ride bicycles everywhere even if it destroyed the economy.
   109. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5734951)
Primey for #64.


Geez I'm glad somebody took notice. I thought that was a great joke, it works on so many levels.
   110. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5734952)
Sounds about right...


President Trump’s disgust with snitches is catching on in court.

An attorney for a crack dealer began to argue in closing statements last week that a cooperating witness can’t be trusted — but a judge stopped him before he could cite a “presidential tweet.”

   111. zenbitz Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5734959)
A Christian, Putin leads the increasingly conservative Russia against the homosexual agenda and towards pro-life side


This is extra funny, because unless Putin *really* changed things Russia is like the world capital for abortions. Oh, I guess I'll look it up... Russia is 8th - based in 2014 numbers. After Greenland, Belize, Cuba, French Guiana, Guadelopue, Georgia, and Mayotte. I guess 2 of those are islands, because I am like a 40% geography nerd and I never heard of 'em.


Source. Then i put it into excel and sorted because I am not an animal.
   112. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:24 PM (#5734961)
If you want to know why Trump is angry at speaker phones and flagpoles and Google:

Bloomberg:
In the span of one week, we learned that the Office of the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York had both secured a guilty plea from Trump Organization lawyer Michael Cohen and offered an immunity deal to the company’s chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg. President Donald Trump should be worried. Once the Southern District gets its jaws onto a string of crimes, it doesn’t let go.

Weisselberg, as part of his deal, will likely be required to provide information on all criminal activity he knows about. That spells potential disaster for Trump personally, and major problems for his presidency. That’s apart from any potential state-level criminal investigation by the New York district attorney’s office.

Trump is now facing a two-front war against the Justice Department. The team led by special counsel Robert Mueller is supposed to focus on Russian interference in the 2016 election. But the Southern District can investigate any aspect of Trump’s behavior that took place in its jurisdiction, at any time.

And unlike Mueller, who could in principle be fired, the Southern District isn’t one man; it’s a whole office of career lawyers. It can’t be fired. Even if Robert Khuzami, the acting U.S. attorney in this case, were removed, no new U.S. attorney could realistically call off the prosecutors.

.............The Southern District actively wanted to make Cohen implicate the president. The prosecutors or Khuzami could have easily taken the more cautious path of convicting Cohen without demanding that he make any public statement with regard to Trump. They chose otherwise. In essence, by making Cohen say he acted at Trump’s direction, the Southern District declared war on the president.

Then there’s the Weisselberg immunity grant. Although the reporting so far indicates that Weisselberg’s deal was limited to testimony about Cohen’s conduct, it seems likely prosecutors have bigger things in mind. To convict Cohen, the Southern District didn’t need the CFO’s testimony. There was already plenty of documentary evidence against Cohen.

And Cohen’s guilt did not depend on whether he was ever paid back by the Trump Organization for the payoffs he made to two women alleging affairs with Trump. According to the prosecutors (and the plea itself), Cohen’s campaign-finance crime was complete when he made the payment from his own funds in coordination with the campaign.

Weisselberg’s usefulness then is almost certainly in areas beyond the Cohen case — in any investigation into criminality in the Trump Organization. That could take many forms. The Southern District could explore money laundering crimes, tax evasion, or bribes of foreign officials or governments, which are illegal under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

The Cohen conviction makes any such Southern District investigation normal and logical, not a “witch hunt.” Consider that the prosecutors now have strong evidence that the Trump Organization was part of a conspiracy to commit campaign-finance violations. The repayment of Cohen by the Trump Organization makes the company fair game.

In any ordinary criminal investigation by the Southern District, evidence that a corporation has been used as part of a criminal conspiracy, with the knowledge and involvement of its owner and CFO, would naturally trigger further digging. Was this the first time the Trump Organization ever acted criminally? The Southern District prosecutors are going to want to know the answer. And they’re going to find out.

............The digging by the Southern District should be a clue to Trump that, when he leaves office, an indictment may be waiting. That would make it hard for him to do his job as president. It would also give him an incentive to resign and be pardoned by Mike Pence.

And if the Southern District wanted to go after Trump before that, it has tools aplenty at its disposal. It doesn’t seem inconceivable that the office could seek to indict the Trump Organization itself and seize assets derived from criminal activity. Or it could use the RICO statute to get a court to deem the organization a criminal enterprise.

Current Department of Justice guidelines say a sitting president can’t be indicted. But they don’t say anything about indicting the president’s business. And the U.S. Supreme Court in the Paula Jones case held that the president may be subject to a civil suit, so any civil proceedings against Trump’s businesses are also within bounds. The Southern District has a civil office, too.
   113. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5734963)
   114. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5734966)
More economic news, Canada Rejoins Talks To Stay In NAFTA, Deal Possible This Week:
Canada’s top trade negotiator joins her Mexican and U.S. counterparts in Washington on Tuesday in a bid to remain part of a revamped trilateral North American trade pact, as U.S. officials expressed optimism a deal could be reached this week.

Always nice to have our neighbors to the north on board.
   115. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5734967)
More economic news, Canada Rejoins Talks To Stay In NAFTA, Deal Possible This Week:


Will they, too, accede to the exact same deals that were reached as part of the TPP?
   116. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5734968)
I thought it was a bizarre claim but now I think I figured out what is going on. There are dozens and dozens of legitimate and all-but-indisputably valid criticisms of Trump. But the Russian collusion is not yet proven, the information either way will probably come out in the future. So some people are trying to create the revisionist history that the critics of Trump were only (or mostly) fixated on the Russia thing. This handwaves away all the other bad things (incompetence, lack of integrity, corruption, embarrassment etc etc etc) that people accurately predicted in advance and have criticized as they came true in clear view of everybody. This is done in the hopes that nothing comes of the Russia investigation or that they can muddy the waters in advance enough to cast doubt - all in pursuit of retaining credibility where otherwise the just-as-bad viewpoint has been completely discredited. So ironically, the just-as-badders become the ones obsessed with bringing up Russia while they try desperately to paint the picture that it's everyone else who is. It's their only hope to avoid recognition that the critics were mostly right, and the critics mostly were not being the boy who cried wolf. So, the fiction that the Trump critics were all-in on Russia and nothing else is their version of the fictional conspiracies that comfort the diehard Trumpers who believed that he literally would have Clinton arrested once elected etc.
Is this your way of kinda, sorta conceding that RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!!! was little more than an illegal spying operation on a POTUS campaign, followed by another illegal effort, this time to kneecap the incoming administration? Because this was all some of you were bleating about for the better part of a year.

Now that the skies have opened up and a #### storm is starting to rain down upon your heads, you simultaneously deny any ownership of the discredited storyline while clinging to something new. Meanwhile, you claim Clapper, Ray, Sugar Baby, and I are at fault for "obsessing" over what you pimped not that long ago.

Sad!
   117. Nasty Nate Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5734971)
Because this was all some of you were bleating about for the better part of a year.
I was?
what you pimped not that long ago.
I did?
What are you talking about?
Now that the skies have opened up and a #### storm is starting to rain down upon your heads,
What is this referring to?
   118. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5734972)
A twitter thread on yesterday's court rejection of North Carolina's 2018 district map.
In order to get a stay, NC Republicans don’t want their request to be considered until Kavanaugh is confirmed and seated…
...
In the meantime, without any stay from SCOTUS, the 3 judge panel in NC is going to push forward with its decision that the maps must be redrawn for this coming election. They are walking down that path.
...
Are they going to postpone the election? Not have primaries? There is no one running in any of these yet to exist districts.
...
There’s no real moral here. I’m just describing a mess. But if you’re the kind of person who likes a moral, maybe it’s this: Kennedy thought he was being prudent by never actually deciding gerrymandering’s fate. Sometimes indecision is the messiest decision of all.
   119. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5734973)
116

Now that the skies have opened up and a #### storm is starting to rain down upon your heads


I think you & yours would be better served by looking for an umbrella yourselves, Jason...
   120. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5734974)
Is Trump’s Legitimacy At Risk?

Electoral legitimacy

Trump’s electoral legitimacy was a complicated issue long before Cohen and Manafort’s legal troubles. Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton. Then there’s the Russia investigation — special counsel Robert Mueller may yet find something that invalidates the entire 2016 election result. (Some might argue that he already has.) All those factors should, at least in theory, make electoral legitimacy a weak spot for Trump — vulnerable to new information about campaign finance practices or possible ties to foreign governments.

* * *

Legal legitimacy

The mounting legal issues among Trump associates, on the other hand, could spell more trouble. If Cohen’s claims about the president and campaign finance are further clarified and supported, then it’s possible that a clear violation of law would hurt Trump’s legitimacy. If a few more prominent Republicans – particularly ones who are staying in Congress – spoke out against him, that might start to change the tenor of his presidency.

* * *

What it all means

Looking at the different dimensions of legitimacy makes it seem less obvious that the recent guilty pleas and convictions of Trump associates will fatally undercut his administration’s ability to govern. Distrust in the political system is already high. The Clinton case showed that the American public has some tolerance for legal problems, and once a president is in power, questioning his right to be there really undermines the stability of the system. The Constitution doesn’t provide a do-over option where elections are concerned. That, plus the narrative weight of even a narrow win, makes the bar for questioning a president’s electoral legitimacy very high.

Instead, Trump’s most persistent source of legitimacy problems comes from the way he has governed, not how he got into office. At the same time, it’s not obvious that legitimacy can be separated from partisanship or attitudes toward policy, which doesn’t leave much hope for a shared set of standards or democratic values that cross party lines.


Lot of words to just say it should - but his Trumpkins won't care so the question has no practical value.
   121. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5734975)
Nasty Nate, #117:
Now that the skies have opened up and a #### storm is starting to rain down upon your heads,

What is this referring to?

When things are going badly, some Republicans improve their mood by doing Travis Bickle monologue cosplay.
   122. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5734976)
What is this referring to?
I'm not referring to you specifically, but many of your pals here. Admittedly, I'm unaware who or what you pimped a year ago.
   123. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5734977)
Now that the skies have opened up and a #### storm is starting to rain down upon your heads,

What is this referring to?


Probably the Trumpical Worm named "Devin".
   124. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:45 PM (#5734978)
Admittedly, I'm unaware who or what you pimped a year ago.


When you be big pimpin' like Juannity, you gots enough trouble tracking yo own ho's!
   125. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5734979)
I think you & yours would be better served by looking for an umbrella yourselves, Jason...
Oh, don't worry, I'm well aware that the the left-wing wannabe fascists, including a few who reside here, don't treat me any differently from a diehard Trumpkin.
   126. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5734982)
What is this referring to?

I'm not referring to you specifically, but many of your pals here. Admittedly, I'm unaware who or what you pimped a year ago.


You, you little 'ho.
   127. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5734983)
The Cook Report on impeachment talk:
At this point, Democrats aren’t trying to pour fuel on the fire. They are happy to watch Republicans struggle with how to put the fire out.

...............Even before the events of this week, Republicans in tough races knew that they had to find ways to show their independence from the president. By a 25-point margin, voters in a June NBC/Wall Street Journal poll said they’d be more likely to support a congressional candidate who promises to be a check on Trump.

The Congressional Leadership Fund, the SuperPAC aligned with Speaker Paul Ryan, has been urging GOPers to localize their races as much as possible. The theory being that a House candidate can’t change the political mood or environment, the best he or she can do is to try to mitigate it—or insulate oneself as best as possible from it.

But, these latest revelations [e.g. Cohen, Manafort] make it almost impossible for Republicans to run races on their terms. One seasoned GOPer lamented that it’s now all but impossible for GOP candidates to "tell voters anything, they [voters] only see things through the lens of Trump." A Democratic strategist I spoke with this week agreed, saying that the events of Tuesday, 'magnifies the rock and hard place' these GOP incumbents are in.

...........That’s why 'firing up the base' to defend Trump from impeachment — or changing the debate to focus on Abolish ICE — isn’t going to be enough for Republicans to hold the House. As one GOP strategist told me, this strategy may indeed inspire rural and red state voters who are currently ambivalent about the GOP-held Congress, to get out and vote Republican this year. But, impeachment talk won’t do anything, this strategist said, to help the GOP to narrow the huge gap with suburban, white women. If anything, it could help to remind those suburban voters exactly WHY they are turned off by the president.
   128. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5734984)
Oh, don't worry, I'm well aware that the the left-wing wannabe fascists, including a few who reside here, don't treat me any differently from a diehard Trumpkin.


It's always SO unfair when people are held to account for the choices they make and the individuals they publicly back rather than the much more principled process of holding them accountable to someone they've never heard of at a protest march they didn't attend!

UNFAIR!
   129. Lassus Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5734986)
I'm well aware that the the left-wing wannabe fascists

Like J.K. Rowling.
   130. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5734988)
JUANABOUT JK ROWLING?
   131. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5734989)
Hey, reading Craig on Twitter criticize Senate Democrats for holding McCain in high esteem and seeing others accuse him of somehow giving us Trump just shows that, unless you cast aside your conservative ideology à la Rubin and Boot, you'll be assigned traitor status too.
   132. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5734990)
The #### storm of indictments and convictions is raining down really well right now.
   133. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5734993)
Yeah but Qanon says it's all gonna be hippies like you and your good friend Hillary Clinton. Don't wander off.
   134. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5734994)
132

The #### storm of indictments and convictions is raining down really well right now.


My point! (#119)
   135. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5734998)
...........That’s why 'firing up the base' to defend Trump from impeachment — or changing the debate to focus on Abolish ICE — isn’t going to be enough for Republicans to hold the House. As one GOP strategist told me, this strategy may indeed inspire rural and red state voters who are currently ambivalent about the GOP-held Congress, to get out and vote Republican this year. But, impeachment talk won’t do anything, this strategist said, to help the GOP to narrow the huge gap with suburban, white women. If anything, it could help to remind those suburban voters exactly WHY they are turned off by the president.


Why do you think Juannity is focus group testing his "OK, I'm a Trumpkin - but I'm not a 'hardcore' Trumpkin"...
   136. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5734999)
SOURCES: CHINA HACKED CLINTON’S PRIVATE EMAIL SERVER:
A Chinese-owned company operating in the Washington, D.C., area hacked Hillary Clinton’s private server throughout her term as secretary of state and obtained nearly all her emails, two sources briefed on the matter told The Daily Caller News Foundation.

The Chinese firm obtained Clinton’s emails in real time as she sent and received communications and documents through her personal server, according to the sources, who said the hacking was conducted as part of an intelligence operation.

The Chinese wrote code that was embedded in the server, which was kept in Clinton’s residence in upstate New York. The code generated an instant “courtesy copy” for nearly all of her emails and forwarded them to the Chinese company, according to the sources.

The Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) found that virtually all of Clinton’s emails were sent to a “foreign entity,” Rep. Louie Gohmert, a Texas Republican, said at a July 12 House Committee on the Judiciary hearing. He did not reveal the entity’s identity, but said it was unrelated to Russia.
Since we've been investigating Russia!!! since forever, why not spend a little time checking out China hacking too?
   137. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5735002)
In other economic news, U.S Consumer Confidence Rises To 18-Year High:
Americans’ consumer confidence rose in August to the highest level in nearly 18 years as their assessment of current conditions improved further and their expectations about the future rebounded.

The Conference Board reported Tuesday that its consumer confidence index rose to 133.4 in August, up from a reading 127.9 in July. It was the highest reading since confidence stood at 135.8 in October 2000. Consumers’ confidence in their ability to get a job and the overall economy are seen as important indicators of how freely they will spend, especially on big-ticket items such as cars, in coming months. Consumer spending accounts for 70 percent of economic activity.

Stark contrast from the predictions in the 2016 OTP election night thread.
   138. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5735003)
Is this your way of kinda, sorta conceding that RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!!! was little more than an illegal spying operation on a POTUS campaign, followed by another illegal effort, this time to kneecap the incoming administration? Because this was all some of you were bleating about for the better part of a year.
I'm not Nate, and don't speak for him, but I'll take the "your" in your reply as all-inclusive.

RUSSIA! RUSSIA! is a placeholder that means different things to different people, and one of the tactics of the "Trumpkin Brigade" has been to conflate those different meanings. It can mean the Mueller investigation, which is expressly intended to explore links and connections between the Trump campaign and Russia. It does *not* necessarily mean "collusion", and we are all well aware that "collusion" is anamorphous anyway. It means that it was obvious from the start that some sort of weird stuff was going on and that everyone involved was lying through their teeth about it, which is usually a sign that somebody is doing something dodgy. Since normal people don't like dodgy stuff going on, it bore looking into.

RUSSIA! RUSSIA! has *also* come to be used interchangeably with TDS, in the sense that "everything critical of Trump can be minimized and lumped together into a single bucket for easy disposal". Critical of Trump? Deranged! That's just more RUSSIA! RUSSIA! nonsense!

Where this has become annoying is that you, specifically, Jason, have come to the point where if someone says that Trump is awful for putting kids in cages, you'll bleat "THAT'S DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING ABOUT RUSSIA! LOLZ!!11!!1!!! YOU LEFTIES ARE STUPID!". Which has gotten really tiresome.
Now that the skies have opened up and a #### storm is starting to rain down upon your heads,
You're being too cryptic for me here. What are you talking about?
you simultaneously deny any ownership of the discredited storyline while clinging to something new.
Presumably you are trying to say something along the lines of Cohen/Davis doesn't prove collusion, so the goalposts are moved, or maybe Steele was lying, or something. Meanwhile, the only actual storyline I've ever clung to is that Trump is a buffoon who doesn't belong in the Oval Office and I'm embarrassed every time I think or hear about it, as any rational person should be.
Meanwhile, you claim Clapper, Ray, Sugar Baby, and I are at fault for "obsessing" over what you pimped not that long ago.
I can only read this as more conflation.

Right-minded people are giddy about the idea of Trump going away. There have been many fits and starts about this, and it certainly hasn't happened yet; Trump has shown remarkable resiliency, due in large part to a squadron of Apologists that are willing to put up with his buffoonery to advance their agendas, and refuse to recognize that people who haven't yet sold out their souls on this score can also be very fine people.

I don't care exactly how Trump finally faces karma. I believe he will, but maybe I'll be disappointed. I'm not going to get my hopes up too far on any one potential cause. But I am going to continue to point out what each of those potential causes might be, and Trump provides a little more grist for the mill every day. Sometimes they circle back to RUSSIA! RUSSIA!, and more often they don't, because Trump is an equal-opportunity buffoon. And yes, I do say that you, Clapper, Ray, and SBB are "at fault" for your parts in accepting any aspect of DJT as morally obligated acceptable.
Sad!
On that, at last, we agree.
   139. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5735006)
In other economic news, U.S Consumer Confidence Rises To 18-Year High

And the generic ballot is at 8.3%. In case you had any illusions about how much America hates Donald Trump and Trump Republicanism.
   140. Lassus Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5735007)
I wonder what else those sources have told the Daily Caller recently.
   141. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5735009)
I wonder what else those sources have told the Daily Caller recently.


"Recent QAnon breadcrumbs lead us to believe Louie Gohmert has an IQ of 183"
   142. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5735010)
#136:
The Daily Caller News Foundation.


The Burger King Wellness Center

The Kardashian Think Tank

The John Bolton Peace Initiative
   143. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5735011)
Since we've been investigating Russia!!! since forever, why not spend a little time checking out China hacking too?
Agreed.

Why not spend a little time noting that Clinton fucking up has nothing to do with anything Trump and his associates are guilty of?

I will be perfectly happy with an end result of Clinton *and* Trump getting locked up^. Would you?

------------

^ Can you imagine the ratings for Cellmates! Coming to NBC in 2021!?!?
   144. BDC Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5735012)
Did anybody go into Conservapedia to edit that Greatest Songs page? I wanted to note that Vivaldi's Four Seasons is strongly anti-global-warming-hoax. When you click to create an account, this is what it asks:

To protect the wiki against automated account creation, we kindly ask you to answer the question that appears below (more info):

How many original Apostles of Jesus were there?
   145. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5735013)
Where this has become annoying is that you, specifically, Jason, have come to the point where if someone says that Trump is awful for putting kids in cages, you'll bleat "THAT'S DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING ABOUT RUSSIA! LOLZ!!11!!1!!! YOU LEFTIES ARE STUPID!". Which has gotten really tiresome.
Cite? Please show where I claimed beefs about illegal immigration are really about RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!!!
You're being too cryptic for me here. What are you talking about?
Perhaps some Freedom Caucus Members and Pirro-Hannity types think Sessions and Rosenstein are incompetent, swampy, and/or crooked, but it's very likely that Sessions and Rosenstein will oversee indictments of folks from the Obama administration for their participation in these schemes.
Presumably you are trying to say something along the lines of Cohen/Davis doesn't prove collusion, so the goalposts are moved, or maybe Steele was lying, or something.
Folks here prayed that Cohen would spill Trump-Russia collusion details, never mind that Mueller's handing off of the investigation to SDNY indicated otherwise.
I can only read this as more conflation.
That's on you, PT.
And yes, I do say that you, Clapper, Ray, and SBB are "at fault" for your parts in accepting any aspect of DJT as morally obligated acceptable.
The four of us don't hold identical views but it's quite apparent to anyone not guzzling the Kool-Aid that none of us are Trumpkins, diehard or otherwise.
   146. DavidFoss Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5735014)
Since we've been investigating Russia!!! since forever, why not spend a little time checking out China hacking too?

A daily caller article citing a quote by Louie Gohmert. This is Clinton's 'rogue' server containing the 33000 emails that no one has been able to find. What good is a hack if it's not followed by leaks?

Why not spend time checking out China hacking? Um... why is Gohmert asking us? He's on the committee with his party in the majority. His party is running the justice department. They can investigate it if they want! Why leak something cryptic to the daily caller when you can hold an open hearing and get all the major networks to show up?
   147. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5735015)
I wonder what else those sources have told the Daily Caller recently.
You and yours should be pretty damn embarrassed that TDC is now more reliable than ABGL.
   148. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5735016)
Why not spend time checking out China hacking?
Say, remember the outrage here when China hacked OPM on Obama's watch and spilled personal details of millions of present and past federal employees? Neither do I.
   149. Nasty Nate Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5735018)
Because this was all some of you were bleating about for the better part of a year.
Even accounting that you aren't referring to me personally, this is the false narrative I was talking about. It was just one of many many things people were bleating about.
   150. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5735019)
Now that the skies have opened up and a #### storm is starting to rain down upon your heads, you simultaneously deny any ownership of the discredited storyline while clinging to something new.

The hilarious thing is, that Juannity has pimped more discredited storylines here over the years, than probably the rest of the board put together. If there were truly a shit storm as a result for things like that, he would have drowned to death in fecal matter a long time ago.
   151. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5735020)
Why leak something cryptic to the daily caller when you can hold an open hearing and get all the major networks to show up?
"Get all the major networks to show up?" In this country, Fossie, there's a free press. One way we know this because they don't give a flying #### about any GOP revelations and not more than one or two outlets would show up to such an event .
   152. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:27 PM (#5735022)
And the generic ballot is at 8.3%.

Actually, it's 6.9% in the Real Clear Politics Generic Congressional Vote Poll Average. The more important question is where will it be on or about November 6. Been a fair amount of movement in recent months.
   153. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5735023)
It was just one of many many things people were bleating about.
Except this was the one thing that, upon closer scrutiny, is not only getting debunked but featured likely illegal spying and leaking. So yeah, it's a BFD.
   154. Nasty Nate Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5735024)
Except this was the one thing that, upon closer scrutiny, not only is getting debunked but featured likely illegal spying and leaking.
If that is true, that doesn't mean it was the only thing people were talking about and criticizing.
   155. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5735027)
You and yours should be pretty damn embarrassed that TDC is now more reliable than ABGL.


It’s pretty reliable in getting stupid people to link to it, that’s for sure.

Very stupid people.
   156. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5735028)
If that is true, that doesn't mean it was the only thing people were talking about and criticizing.
And a longtime, regular lurker would know that I've criticized Trump plenty, most recently his classless behavior regarding McCain and the flag. Is it way less than in 2016 and even early 2017? Absolutely, because several concerns were sufficiently addressed, particularly after Bannon was shown the door.
   157. DavidFoss Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5735029)
"Get all the major networks to show up?" In this country, Fossie, there's a free press. One way we know this because they don't give a flying #### about any GOP revelations and not more than one or two outlets would show up to such an event .

I'm still confused. You're using what I said to pivot from action to coverage. What do you want? Gohmert is on the committee. His party has the majority. His party controls the executive branch. What is stopping Gohmert and his party from performing the investigations that they want to do? You act like this potential investigation is being quashed. By who?

And you still didn't answer what happened to the emails. Conservatives have been looking for these emails for years. Emails from at least two other servers got leaked. If the Chinese have these emails, why didn't they get leaked like all the others?
   158. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5735031)
Hahahaha

Other than a sprinkling of mockery aimed at the deserving Trumpkins, I've generally stayed away from the McCain hagiography - but I gotta admit... especially given the afternoon persecution complex shitshow - this is pretty funny.

Even in death, John McCain has one final burn planned for two of his biggest foes — Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump — at a moment when much of the world will be watching.

The Republican senator from Arizona, who planned his own funeral, chose Russian dissident Vladimir Kara-Murza as one of the dignitaries to carry his coffin to the front of the Washington National Cathedral at Saturday’s memorial service.
   159. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5735032)
Yeah but Qanon says it's all gonna be hippies like you and your good friend Hillary Clinton. Don't wander off.


What you don't understand is the Devin Nunes IS Q!!!

I want credit for seeing Jason's descent into screaming lunatic madness before anyone else.
   160. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5735035)
I've generally stayed away from the McCain hagiography


It is possible to note the good things about John McCain while avoiding hagiography.
   161. Nasty Nate Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5735036)
If that is true, that doesn't mean it was the only thing people were talking about and criticizing.

And a longtime, regular lurker would know that I've criticized Trump plenty, most recently his classless behavior regarding McCain and the flag.
OK, but why does that lead to revisionist history about everyone else's criticism? I'm missing the connection. Whether the anti-Trump people or the just-as-badders were right doesn't hinge on the results of the Russia investigation, and to pretend it does seems desperate.
   162. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:38 PM (#5735037)
In other economic news, U.S Consumer Confidence Rises To 18-Year High

And the generic ballot is at 8.3%. In case you had any illusions about how much America hates Donald Trump and Trump Republicanism.


I have mentioned this before, but really no kidding, think about this for a second. GOP President Trump is so unpopular that despite a historically great economic run and the fact that there is little of substance happening in the world that should negatively impact the mid-term, right now the generic ballot and every other indicator points to a possible Blue Wave.

Eventually the economy will have issues. I promise. I am shocked it has lasted as long as it has and it is in record territory for how long it has run well. There are already signs and portents tat suggest a near term economic down turn. I don't think it will impact 2018, but it will likely happen.

If Republicans are in this much trouble now with a great economy, what is going to happen when it goes South? Does anyone imagine Trump will be a reassuring and steady hand on the wheel in the midst of an economic crisis? That people will love him more when the economy crashes into a ditch?
   163. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:38 PM (#5735038)
Where this has become annoying is that you, specifically, Jason, have come to the point where if someone says that Trump is awful for putting kids in cages, you'll bleat "THAT'S DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING ABOUT RUSSIA! LOLZ!!11!!1!!! YOU LEFTIES ARE STUPID!". Which has gotten really tiresome.

Cite? Please show where I claimed beefs about illegal immigration are really about RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!!!
I cop to hyperbole. The point of the original post, which I agree with, is that "RUSSIA!" is being used as a squirrel like a Chicagoan goes to the polls; early and often, to distract from any fool thing Trump does.
You're being too cryptic for me here. What are you talking about?

Perhaps some Freedom Caucus Members and Pirro-Hannity types think Sessions and Rosenstein are incompetent, swampy, and/or crooked, but it's very likely that Sessions and Rosenstein will oversee indictments of folks from the Obama administration for their participation in these schemes.
I don't see how that is a shitstorm on anyone's heads. If Obama people are indicted, that is UNREFUCKINGLATED to ANYFUCKINGTHING to do with DONALDFUCKINGTRUMP. Bring on any indictments of any wrongdoer, including HRC, or whomever.
Presumably you are trying to say something along the lines of Cohen/Davis doesn't prove collusion, so the goalposts are moved, or maybe Steele was lying, or something.

Folks here prayed that Cohen would spill Trump-Russia collusion details, never mind that Mueller's handing off of the investigation to SDNY indicated otherwise.
Yes. People are too hopeful that any one thing will be the instrument of Trump's demise. Their misplaced hope doesn't mean that Trump doesn't deserve to go down.
And yes, I do say that you, Clapper, Ray, and SBB are "at fault" for your parts in accepting any aspect of DJT as morally obligated acceptable.

The four of us don't hold identical views but it's quite apparent to anyone not guzzling the Kool-Aid that none of us are Trumpkins, diehard or otherwise.
That's correct, you're not in lockstep any more than I agree with Andy or Zonk or Mouse about everything.

But I do align with the latter group on one overarching principle: Trump is a menace to our country, an embarrassment to every proper American, and unworthy of his (duly elected!) office. And I'm not going to let what HRC did, or discrepancies in the dossier, or the embassy move, or my stock portfolio, distract me from that truth.
   164. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:42 PM (#5735039)
Other than a sprinkling of mockery aimed at the deserving Trumpkins, I've generally stayed away from the McCain hagiography - but I gotta admit... especially given the afternoon persecution complex shitshow - this is pretty funny.
Josh is a good journalist. He's the one who uncovered the Obama-Hezbollah connection, for example. Still, I don't understand why he considers this choice a big FU to Trump. It's at least 99 percent aimed at Putin.

And lest the comics here forget, it was Hillary who as Secretary of State opposed the Magnitsky legislation. And it was Fusion GPS who worked to get Magnitsky repealed.
   165. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:42 PM (#5735041)
People are too hopeful that any one thing will be the instrument of Trump's demise. Their misplaced hope doesn't mean that Trump doesn't deserve to go down.


Right. The practical mechanism for Trump's sorry fat ass to get the boot is dependent on the Republican Party being moral and patriotic. It's not going to happen. That doesn't mean it shouldn't have happened years ago. (It shouldn't have ever gotten past the ####### electoral college, of course.)
   166. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5735042)
Now that the skies have opened up and a #### storm is starting to rain down upon your heads, you simultaneously deny any ownership of the discredited storyline while clinging to something new.


How long have you been promising the retribution? And now you claim "it" is happening and I still have no clue what "it" is or why you think it is somehow causing me worry or concern or ... well anything.

I keep asking you to explain this grand conspiracy - complete with opposition media, for Pete's sake - to explain what this storm is an what it is you think is going on and you keep refusing.

Really though, what is it that you think is going on that should be causing me distress? I have no idea. Like none. Is this just more dossier nonsense?
   167. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5735044)

The Daily Caller News Foundation.
One of my favorite parts of the grifting operation of the Daily Cellar is that they refer to themselves this way. The New York Times doesn't speak of itself self-referrentially as The New York Times Company; Salon doesn't go around saying, "Sources told the Salon Media Group that..."
   168. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:46 PM (#5735045)
How long have you been promising the retribution? And now you claim "it" is happening and I still have no clue what "it" is or why you think it is somehow causing me worry or concern or ... well anything.

I keep asking you to explain this grand conspiracy - complete with opposition media, for Pete's sake - to explain what this storm is an what it is you think is going on and you keep refusing.


From Qanon to QueueUpJuan. The fact that all you hippies aren’t in jail already only reinforces how deeply entrenched you are in the halls of malicious power. But lo, comes a day of reckoning! And Juan will laugh at you for doubting him. Laugh!

   169. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:48 PM (#5735046)
I don't see how that is a shitstorm on anyone's heads. If Obama people are indicted, that is UNREFUCKINGLATED to ANYFUCKINGTHING to do with DONALDFUCKINGTRUMP. Bring on any indictments of any wrongdoer, including HRC, or whomever.
??? Of course, it's related. Depending on the senior or mid-level official, he/she tried to destroy the Trump campaign and/or effectively overturn the election results.
Yes. People are too hopeful that any one thing will be the instrument of Trump's demise. Their misplaced hope doesn't mean that Trump doesn't deserve to go down.
They're welcome to keep looking for something.
But I do align with the latter group on one overarching principle: Trump is a menace to our country, an embarrassment to every proper American, and unworthy of his (duly elected!) office. And I'm not going to let what HRC did, or discrepancies in the dossier, or the embassy move, or my stock portfolio, distract me from that truth.
Trump got elected POTUS. We (still!) don't overturn POTUS election results because... reasons.
   170. DavidFoss Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5735047)
Eventually the economy will have issues. I promise. I am shocked it has lasted as long as it has and it is in record territory for how long it has run well. There are already signs and portents tat suggest a near term economic down turn. I don't think it will impact 2018, but it will likely happen.

Unpaid tax cuts with low unemployment, so they added stimulus to a healthy economy. The economy continues to go up. It's not complicated.

The complications are longer term. What happens when the business cycle goes through a normal recession with larger structural budget deficits? What happens to the national debt if interest rates ever go up? What if there are any asset bubbles?

I guess the gamble is that elections will occur between now and then and the problem can be reframed as 'too much spending' rather than 'unfunded tax cuts'. Americans have fallen for that before.
   171. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5735048)
Follow the breadcrumbs sheeple.
   172. Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:50 PM (#5735049)
How long have you been promising the retribution? And now you claim "it" is happening and I still have no clue what "it" is or why you think it is somehow causing me worry or concern or ... well anything.
Obtusity makes an appearance! Look above.
   173. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:52 PM (#5735050)
It is possible to note the good things about John McCain while avoiding hagiography.


True.

I've started and deleted multiple posts on McCain generally, but to sum up -

I do take him to task for being one of the hawkiest hawks in the Senate. I give him credit for speaking against torture... but hawkish adventurism inevitably leads to fertile ground for something like torture. It's complicated.

I give him credit for standing up to Trump, but I take him to task to foisting what is essentially the Trump seed of Palin onto the country.... but - on the heels of the disastrous Bush Presidency, what was he supposed to do? Just lose quietly? I can excuse the lack of the vetting, but I wish he'd done more active in steering her away from becoming the head cheerleader of a nutso base.

I oppose most of the policies he supported - but I credit him for campaign finance reform. I credit him for casting the deciding no vote on the ACA repeal, but feel it's quite unfair that he was the 'hero' of the repeal, to the exclusion of the GOP ladies who got virtually no credit. I credit him for formerly being a reasonable voice on immigration, but not for flip-flopping away from it. I understand that for a Republican - it would have been political suicide.

Finally, I do credit him for the way he conducted himself in 2008 - as Trump and the GOP have since proven, there is a real ugly, bigoted, xenophobic, nativist element to the GOP base... distrustful - to a dangerous extent, corrosive and terrible - of non-WASPy anyones... whatever compromises he made on policy - I give him credit for not joining the crowd (as most Republicans have now done) or tacitly winking at it (as the rest have).

In short?

A decent man who was generally principled.
   174. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:54 PM (#5735051)
That's correct, you're not in lockstep any more than I agree with Andy or Zonk or Mouse about everything.


The first step towards perfection is recognizing imperfection :-)
   175. TDF, trained monkey Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5735055)
In this country, Fossie, there's a free press. One way we know this because they don't give a flying #### about any GOP revelations and not more than one or two outlets would show up to such an event .
Which is why no one knows anything about Bengazi. Or Clinton's emails.

It's why the sitting GOP POTUS was able to question the birthplace of his predecessor until the eve of the election without any repercussions. Or why he could admit to sexual assault on tape, again with just a hand-wave. Or why he could be elected despite the fact that he bilked (tens? hundreds?) of suppliers over the years.

Yep, that damned liberal media. Just remember - Mission Accomplished!
   176. Traderdave Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5735056)
The complications are longer term. What happens when the business cycle goes through a normal recession with larger structural budget deficits? What happens to the national debt if interest rates ever go up? What if there are any asset bubbles?


The very flat Treasury yield curve indicates a slowdown at best, and if it inverts, a recession is a fait accompli within a year or so.

And both real estate & equity prices are in bubbles right now. The Fed's ZIRP was intended to create wage & CPI inflation (among other things) but its primary result has been asset inflation.
   177. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5735057)
Which is why no one knows anything about Bengazi. Or Clinton's emails.

It's why the sitting GOP POTUS was able to question the birthplace of his predecessor until the eve of the election without any repercussions. Or why he could admit to sexual assault on tape, again with just a hand-wave. Or why he could be elected despite the fact that he bilked (tens? hundreds?) of suppliers over the years.


JUANABOUT SETH RICH
   178. TDF, trained monkey Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5735058)
??? Of course, it's related. Depending on the senior or mid-level official, he/she tried to destroy the Trump campaign and/or effectively overturn the election results....

Trump got elected POTUS. We (still!) don't overturn POTUS election results because... reasons.
Ya know, you'd think that someone who pretends to know what's going on would realize, after he's been bludgeoned with it for going on 2 years, that if DJT goes away we don't get President Hillary.

I mean, you do realize that, don't you? That there is absolutely no mechanism where the results of the election can be "overturned"?
   179. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5735059)
Yankee Clapper, #152:
And the generic ballot is at 8.3%.

Actually, it's 6.9% in the Real Clear Politics Generic Congressional Vote Poll Average. The more important question is where will it be on or about November 6. Been a fair amount of movement in recent months.


Actually, it's at 8.3% in 538's average. But 6.9% would be enough to do the job.

As for the "fair amount of movement," the generic ballot has been more stable than most cycles, more than any cycle since 2006-2008. And should there be any important late movement, as there was in 2010, you're not likely to be comforted by it.

Cue Charlie Cook:
Once you get within 100 days or so of the general election, electoral dynamics are pretty much set. In modern history, we’ve never seen a directional change in the last three months of a midterm-election campaign. Waves can stay the same or increase in the closing months, but they don’t reverse direction or dissipate.

   180. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:12 PM (#5735063)
I don't see how that is a shitstorm on anyone's heads. If Obama people are indicted, that is UNREFUCKINGLATED to ANYFUCKINGTHING to do with DONALDFUCKINGTRUMP. Bring on any indictments of any wrongdoer, including HRC, or whomever.

??? Of course, it's related. Depending on the senior or mid-level official, he/she tried to destroy the Trump campaign and/or effectively overturn the election results.
Jason, really.

Obama officials, or HRC, or Son of Sam, or Adolf Hitler, or Timothy McVeigh, or Britney Spears - ALL of them are UNRELATED to any of the singularly poor choices Trump has made, and/or criminal acts that have been performed either at his behest or to his benefit.
Yes. People are too hopeful that any one thing will be the instrument of Trump's demise. Their misplaced hope doesn't mean that Trump doesn't deserve to go down.

They're welcome to keep looking for something.
Implying strongly that the net total actions of Trump, to this point, are perfectly acceptable to you. This is why you have incurred scorn.
But I do align with the latter group on one overarching principle: Trump is a menace to our country, an embarrassment to every proper American, and unworthy of his (duly elected!) office. And I'm not going to let what HRC did, or discrepancies in the dossier, or the embassy move, or my stock portfolio, distract me from that truth.

Trump got elected POTUS. We (still!) don't overturn POTUS election results because... reasons.
You suffer from reading too much Ray. No one is trying to overturn anything. Trump was duly elected, as noted in the very quote you responded to.

He can be duly elected, AND be a menace, AND an embarrassment, AND unworthy. There's a pretty strong consensus that this described Nixon in 1974. Like Mouse, I don't think there's anything actually impeach-worthy that has come to light, to this point. Impeachment is a very serious process, and shouldn't be a partisan pinata.

Please stop conflating "Trump is unfit for office" with "HRC should be President". If you can't understand the difference, maybe you should take another hiatus.
   181. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5735064)

Unpaid tax cuts with low unemployment, so they added stimulus to a healthy economy. The economy continues to go up. It's not complicated.

The complications are longer term. What happens when the business cycle goes through a normal recession with larger structural budget deficits? What happens to the national debt if interest rates ever go up? What if there are any asset bubbles?

I guess the gamble is that elections will occur between now and then and the problem can be reframed as 'too much spending' rather than 'unfunded tax cuts'. Americans have fallen for that before.


Meh -

The fundamental problem the Trumpkins have with selling the economy is that it has inordinately benefited... well... people who hate Trump (setting aside that sure, he's got some extraordinarily wealthy people happy with him).

As has been noted many, many, many times by folks here relaying statements from his own BLS, his own newly appointed fed chair, etc - the economic expansion that is now in what... year 6? - really hasn't affected the supposed folks drawn to Trump's economic messaging.

Hourly/non-supervisory wages continue to stagnate, at best.

Nobody pays attention to the numbers when they get posted, of course - but that's OK because I find the anecdotal to be revealing.

Roughly half of my social media cadre - relatives, friends from HS, etc - who are Trumpkins regularly keep me updated on the non-OTP Trumpkin mindset.... and you know what? NONE of them are relaying any of the THE ECONOMY!!! stuff Clapper posts here. Not one. The only thing related to the unemployment rate, stock market, consumer confidence, etc I've ever seen from any of them is the stuff on the black unemployment rate (none of them are black).

What I do get is lots of memes about how well-stocked welfare fridges are compared to theirs, complaints about the banks, what it cost for little Bobby's stitches, etc.

Juannity was rightfully mocked last OTP over it - but it's true... these are the folks who are fertile ground for -- gasp! -- "socialism".

It's a rock and a hard place for the Trumpkins... on the aggregate, as measured by the data - the US economy is fine, great even. It was great in 2014, too. But - the gains and excellence is not broad-based and it's not lifting all boats.

As a Democrat, a liberal, and someone not particularly opposed to some of the Sanders/AOC/"socialist" agenda (as always, just show me the math) - I'm not entirely dissatisfied with this state of affairs.

I will happily take the gains that are benefiting me personally - while simultaneously - and genuinely - feeling for my fellow citizens who are still struggling to just stay above water, much less make any progress towards something more.

I look forward to the inevitable future day when economic policy discussions will inevitably find me at on the cautious, right flank of the fulcrum. Rather than the current left flank.
   182. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:24 PM (#5735070)
I look forward to the inevitable future day when economic policy discussions will inevitably find me at on the cautious, right flank of the fulcrum. Rather than the current left flank.

That won’t happens until we blow up the DNC. Because the current Democratic Party will NEVER move to the left on economics; they will never act contrary to the wishes of Capital.
   183. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:26 PM (#5735071)
Me, #179:
Yankee Clapper, #152:
And the generic ballot is at 8.3%.
Actually, it's 6.9% in the Real Clear Politics Generic Congressional Vote Poll Average. The more important question is where will it be on or about November 6. Been a fair amount of movement in recent months.
Actually, it's at 8.3% in 538's average. But 6.9% would be enough to do the job.

Whenever I'm wrong, I'm big enough to admit my mistakes.

The 538 generic ballot margin is now at 9.3%.

A fair amount of movement in recent minutes.
   184. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:30 PM (#5735073)
Jason - Here's an example of Trump being reprehensible, embarrassing, and unfit. Donald Trump says Hurricane Maria 'not a real catastrophe like Katrina'

Now that Maria has been shown to far surpass Katrina in terms of fatalities, will you seek corrections on this matter with the same zeal you apply to Lanny Davis?
   185. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:31 PM (#5735074)
Like Mouse, I don't think there's anything actually impeach-worthy that has come to light, to this point. Impeachment is a very serious process, and shouldn't be a partisan pinata.

Eh, #### that ####. The very first time we ever impeached someone from office, ya wanna know his crime? ############ had a drinking problem. That’s all it took! We can go back to that!

“The President’s brain is made of mashed potatoes” is a ###### no-doubter re: impeachment. You wouldn’t trust this senile oaf to do your laundry.
   186. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5735082)
Davo, the "senile oaf" argument is actually more along the lines of the 25th Amendment. I don't think we're there, either.

I think Trump's an embarrassing menace, but he's not clinically insane or incompetent. Mentally, anyway. He's inept at running a government, since he's not finding it as autocratic as his private companies. Picking fights with Canada or Australia or the Mayor of London is dumb, but it's not going to get Pence to submit a letter or the Cabinet to sign off. If he plows through Sessions, Rosenstein, and Mueller in some kind of Saturday Night Massacre Revisited, I suppose that might be on the table, but so would impeachment, probably.
   187. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 28, 2018 at 05:58 PM (#5735092)
As for the "fair amount of movement," the generic ballot has been more stable than most cycles, more than any cycle since 2006-2008.

Stable only in the sense that the Democrats have some kind of lead, but there has been considerable fluctuation in whether that lead would be sufficient to win control of the House. As most should know, the Generic Congressional Ballot is a national poll that doesn't reflect Democratic voters over-concentration in a relatively few urban Congressional Districts, the effect of partisan districting, or the advantage of incumbency. While not an exact science, the rule of thumb most observers seem to be going by is that Democrats would need to win the House vote by more than 5% to win the House.

They might do so. I noted a long time ago that the Democrats would only need to net the average opposition party pick-up to win the House. The immediate over-reaction here was that was setting far too high a bar, since - wait for it - not everybody does as well as the average. Well, duh. However, even that outcome is not guaranteed. By my count, there are currently 152 Generic Congressional Ballot polls from this year listed at RCP, in 52 the Dems margin is less than what they will likely need to take over the House. That's about 1-in-3 odds. Hmm, when is the last time anyone won an election with something like those odds?

As recently as 2016, for those with short memories or who still refuse to accept the election results. RCP now lists 58 Generic Congressional Ballot polls from that year, with the GOP leading in only 5, but they won the national House vote by 1.1%, along with 241 seats. That was the "Count the Chromosomes" election for those who may be new here. The campaign is ahead, it hasn't already been decided.
   188. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 28, 2018 at 06:18 PM (#5735097)
Obtusity makes an appearance! Look above.


Imagine my shock at this latest non response. Much different than all the other times you dodged my question about what it is you are after now. I bet I will be equally surprised next time too.
   189. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 06:31 PM (#5735100)
Yankee Clapper, #187:
As for the "fair amount of movement," the generic ballot has been more stable than most cycles, more than any cycle since 2006-2008.

Stable only in the sense that the Democrats have some kind of lead, but there has been considerable fluctuation in whether that lead would be sufficient to win control of the House. ........While not an exact science, the rule of thumb most observers seem to be going by is that Democrats would need to win the House vote by more than 5% to win the House.


No. There has not been that kind of fluctuation. Going by Clapper's own "Democrats would need to win the House vote by more than 5%" premise, and by his preferred RCP databank, the Democratic margin has dipped below 5% for ~3 weeks of the last 83.

Everyone knows that the generic ballot is just one statistical indicator and no guarantee. But your assessment that the ballot has shown "considerable fluctuation" and "a fair amount of movement" is plain wrong. Even today's 1% Democratic bump on 538 wouldn't qualify.
   190. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 28, 2018 at 06:32 PM (#5735101)
Donald Trump met with Christian leaders yesterday and told them:

*One of the things he's most proud of is getting rid of the law forbidding churches and charities from endorsing candidates (he has not);
*They are just one election away from losing everything they have (they are not);
*The midterm election is a referendum on Christianity (it is not);
*If the GOP loses, liberals will behave "violently, and violently. There's violence." (this will not happen);
*He finds comfort in the power of prayer (he does not);
*People could not say 'Merry Christmas' before his election, but at last they can (okay, this one is true).
   191. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 28, 2018 at 06:42 PM (#5735104)
The four of us don't hold identical views but it's quite apparent to anyone not guzzling the Kool-Aid that none of us are Trumpkins, diehard or otherwise.

Anyone who minimizes Trump's racism and corruption is a Trumpkin in spirit. You've done nothing but minimize his racism since the day he was inaugurated, refusing to call it out for what it is. Calling a few of his more blatant actions "classless" doesn't negate that central point.
   192. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 28, 2018 at 06:51 PM (#5735107)
You and yours should be pretty damn embarrassed that TDC is now more reliable than ABGL.

It’s pretty reliable in getting stupid people to link to it, that’s for sure.

Very stupid** people.


** Or very, very desperate people.
   193. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 28, 2018 at 06:54 PM (#5735108)
Juan is mostly stupid. For example, he thinks someone, somewhere, will take his "I am totally not a Trump holster" act at face value. He really believes that!
   194. Traderdave Posted: August 28, 2018 at 06:58 PM (#5735111)
Juan is mostly stupid. For example, he thinks someone, somewhere, will take his "I am totally not a Trump holster" act at face value. He really believes that!


I can't be the only one who is enjoying the increasing frequency with which our resident Trumpkins keep insisting they aren't Trumpkins. It calls to mind rats keeping one eye on the lifeboats or SS men knifing off their tattoos. It's fun to watch.


   195. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 28, 2018 at 06:58 PM (#5735112)
190- The actions of those religious authorities fills me with sadness.
   196. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: August 28, 2018 at 07:07 PM (#5735114)
Stormy JE Posted: August 28, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5735028)

And a longtime, regular lurker…


Hello, there. Or, in the frequent snark-filled style you use when you're not mirroring your Twitter feed here, “Longtime lurker says hello.”

...would know that I've criticized Trump plenty…


No, I don’t know this. Perhaps you’d like to point to some examples. How’s 10 sound? You know, ones with substance. Or, in the frequent snark-filled style you use when you're not mirroring your Twitter feed here, “Google is your friend.”

...most recently his classless behavior regarding McCain and the flag.


So? That’s a pitiful, shameless act by Trump. It might merit a paragraph in any history of Trump’s presidency or McCain’s time as senator. But I don’t recall you addressing in-depth any matters of substance or policy. Examples would include rolling back EPA standards; key personnel selections like Pruitt or DeVos; changes in the tax law; a failure to gain anything substantive with North Korea; billions in aid to farmers due to Trump’s other policy decisions; or, since you seem obsessed with the behavior of mainstream media, whether you think his relationship with Fox/Hannity is a concern in terms of his decision-making or as a matter of the media serving the public interests.

Or, in the frequent snark-filled style you use when you're not mirroring your Twitter feed here, “It’s adorable how at your age you lack substance when discussing issues which matter in the long term and affect the majority of Americans.”

Is it way less than in 2016 and even early 2017? Absolutely, because several concerns were sufficiently addressed, particularly after Bannon was shown the door.


Even here you don’t specify your concerns. What were the several others? What were your issues with Bannon? How has his departure actually improved things and improved Trump’s policies? Are you saying you're know mostly satisfied with Trump’s work? You certainly seem to suggest that here since you’ve said your criticisms of his presidency have declined in the last year and a half.

Or, in the frequent snark-filled style you use when you're not mirroring your Twitter feed here, “When will you leave your lily-white cul-de-sac, stop being a coward, and actually articulate opinions?”

That’s it. Have a walk-off week!

(Yes, for more of your snark-filled style, I'm old enough to remember when you thought that was a good sign-off.)
   197. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: August 28, 2018 at 07:10 PM (#5735115)
shorter #196 -- he's full of ####.
   198. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: August 28, 2018 at 07:21 PM (#5735118)
Of course he's full of ####. He's a Dancing Monkey.
   199. BDC Posted: August 28, 2018 at 08:17 PM (#5735136)
People could not say 'Merry Christmas' before his election, but at last they can (okay, this one is true)


It is true! Just a few weeks after Trump's election, people started staying "Merry Christmas" again for the first time in eleven months.
   200. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: August 28, 2018 at 08:32 PM (#5735144)
Imagine getting mad because the Chili’s waitress says “ Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas.”

How spiritually empty do you have to be to get to that point?
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