Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, August 28, 2018

OTP 2018 August 27: Pitching politics

George Washington was known to throw a ball—for hours, reported one soldier under his command—with his aide-de-camp during the Revolutionary War. Abraham Lincoln would join baseball games on the lawn of Blair House, which still stands across Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House. “I remember how vividly he ran, how long were his strides, how far his coattails stuck out behind,” the home’s owner, Francis Preston Blair, recalled in a letter to his grandson.

The story of baseball in the United States is intertwined with that of the presidency, says Curt Smith, a senior lecturer in English and the author of The Presidents and the Pastime: The History of Baseball and the White House (University of Nebraska Press, 2018). He traces the points of connection from the colonial era to the present, devoting a chapter to each president since William Howard Taft, who in 1910 inaugurated the practice of the president throwing out a ceremonial first pitch.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 28, 2018 at 07:27 AM | 1644 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 16 of 17 pages ‹ First  < 14 15 16 17 > 
   1501. dlf Posted: September 04, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5738495)
My future 2nd wife ...


Are congratulations in order? Or is this a past future?

The co-worker sitting in the office right by my cubicle was managing editor of the paper in, I believe, Pascagoula when Katrina devastated pretty much the entire area.


Not from there but spent a day in Biloxi on a overnight beach trip (stayed at the only really nice resort style hotel left) and was blown away by the damage still visible from Katrina and perhaps even moreso -- how much land on the strip was just vacant, unused and undeveloped.


Not sure how long ago this was, but most of the casino resorts are back. Mississippi amended the law that used to require casinos to be in navigable waterways to now allow them within a certain number of feet of the water so Beaux Rivage and the others are now on the beach. That and the shipyards in the area are pretty much the entire local economy.

But yeah, most of the initial storm damage from Katrina was along the MS coast rather than in New Orleans. The issues in NO weren't primarily from the wind or storm surge, but simply the amount of water that went over - and through - the dykes then sat in the city since it is below sea level. Of course it was compounded by bureaucratic ineptitude from the local law enforcement all the way up to good ol' Brownie.

Back in high school we used to make the Pascagoula run along Hwy 90 so we could get to the road side bars in the neighboring state with an 18 year old drinking age. Most of those dives were long gone even before Katrina, but what was left was absolutely wiped out. Dad is still in Grand Bay on the AL side but he was far enough inland that he'll just get a lot of rain and now at age 80, he's too stubborn to evacuate for something that'll only be a Category I ...
   1502. perros Posted: September 04, 2018 at 05:44 PM (#5738496)
Please get back on your meds


Okay, Nurse Ratched.
   1503. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5738497)
As both parties begin their final post-Labor Day sprint to Election Day, there are concrete signs that Democratic voters are fired up heading into the midterm elections.

Nowhere is that more evident than in the majority of states that have already held primaries. There's been massive increases in Democratic turnout while often a minimal uptick — or even noticeable dip — in turnout among Republican voters.

"What I'm seeing, with the exception of a handful of states, in state after state are huge increases in Democratic turnout relative to the increase in Republican turnout, when you look at 2014 versus 2018 turnout," said Republican pollster John Couvillon. "From looking at primary turnout as evidence of partisan enthusiasm, I'm seeing it on the Democratic side."


Unpossible. Clapper assured us that the marginally higher R turnout in the recent FL primaries was indicative of no coming blue wave. Is it possible he has no idea what he is talking about sometimes?
   1504. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 04, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5738498)
Okay, Nurse Ratched.


You're no MacMurphy. You're in there voluntarily.
   1505. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5738499)
This is not Russia! Russia! This is just more incompetent leadership.


Just another tricky day, for you.
   1506. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 05:50 PM (#5738501)
Go back and read Thomas Jefferson. Or Abraham Lincoln.

Nothing but rednecks for 400 years if you check


Pffft, you should be so lucky.
   1507. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: September 04, 2018 at 05:51 PM (#5738504)
Are congratulations in order? Or is this a past future?


A past future. She was my 2nd wife; I was her 3rd husband. She's on, I believe, No. 5. I've remained single the last, let's see, 27 years & 9 months.
   1508. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:04 PM (#5738510)
You live in bizarro world where the truth doesn't matter, I try and stick with rational analysis based in the social sciences.


You actually believe that about yourself, don't you? Good lord.
   1509. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:09 PM (#5738511)
Newt Gingrich

Verified account

@newtgingrich
9m9 minutes ago
More
It is sad that Bob Woodward felt compelled to write a leftwing trashbook about the Trump White House. He could have tried to understand huge judgeship victories, the enormous deregulation, lowest Black unemployment in history, 400,000 new manufacturing jobs. How does Trump do it?


one might wonder how Trump manages to poll at 60% negatives despite such numbers, and they can just read the book to find out why.
   1510. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:10 PM (#5738512)
The county fairgrounds were not at all in Philadelphia, Mississippi,


Neshoba County Fairgrounds contact page

Note the address:

16800 Hwy 21 South, Philadelphia

Yes, I know it's not technically in the city limits, but come on. This is a stretch even for you.
   1511. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:14 PM (#5738513)
Well, that didn't take long. The WH, Dowd, Kelly, and Mattis all deny Woodward's quotes are accurate.
"The idea I ever called the President an idiot is not true," Kelly said in a statement hours after the report was released.
...
Mattis also denied the quotes attributed to him in Woodward's book. "The contemptuous words about the President attributed to me in Woodward's book were never uttered by me or in my presence."
...
Dowd said he would not address every "inaccurate statement" attributed to him but did deny that he had called Trump a liar or that he would end up in an orange jumpsuit.

...............

"When I have attributed exact quotations, thoughts or conclusions to the participants, that information comes from the person, a colleague with direct knowledge, or from meeting notes, personal diaries, files and government or personal documents," Woodward wrote in a note to readers included in the book.
So I guess, no tapes... that would have been fun! Hard to call Woodward a hack, though. It seems like the "idiot" comment, at least, has been in the ether for quite some time.
   1512. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:24 PM (#5738520)
I think a subpoena from Mueller is in Trump's immediate future.
   1513. Srul Itza Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:28 PM (#5738523)
Trump is going to be YUGELY embarrassed by this book


em·bar·rass·ment - noun - a feeling of self-consciousness, shame, or awkwardness.

When has Trump ever experienced any of these?
   1514. perros Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:28 PM (#5738524)
You actually believe that about yourself, don't you? Good lord.


I'm making leftist arguments grounded in serious academic work. I bring up stuff like James C. Scott's Against the Grain, or link to a story of all McCain's ties to terrorists back to OBL, and it's dismissed as hippy talk. The man openly talks about gooks and calls his wife a #### in public, and he's touted for his unparalleled decency.

You rant about hand signals and curb stomping.

I actually believe I'm wasting my time here. I'd be better off with an opiate addiction.
   1515. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:30 PM (#5738525)
When has Trump ever experienced any of these?


He raged at the WH Correspondents dinner when Obama said he was running for president as a joke.

So, strike "embarrassed" and substitute "throw a tantrum and do some ridiculously outrageous things that might sink him".
   1516. Srul Itza Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:32 PM (#5738526)
tedious dink



Time to adjust your spell check
   1517. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:33 PM (#5738527)
So now CNN is reporting that Mueller will accept written answers from Trump on Russian collusion, to which Adam Schiff said, eventually, it could lead to Mueller issuing a subpoena to get oral answers, and that if the WH fights it, the WH loses.
   1518. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:36 PM (#5738529)
"Dink" is a pejorative from my youth: A stupid, annoying, or contemptible person.#2.
   1519. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:40 PM (#5738533)
David Nieperont, #1468:
Which illustrates why the Neshoba County Fair arguments are made in such bad faith. Is something a few miles away? Is it hundreds of miles away? Doesn't matter; you start with your delusional conclusions and work backwards to come with some pathetic excuse for an argument.


The delusional Southern Living Magazine:
The Neshoba County Fair, located in the red clay hills outside Philadelphia, Mississippi, marks the sweet spot of all that is sacred in the South: family, friends, good food, and hospitality.
This week, on a twisty stretch of Highway 21 outside Philadelphia, Mississippi, the 119-year-old Neshoba County Fair celebrates the very essence of Southern hospitality (July 25-August 1).

The pathetic excuse for an argument listed under "General Information" for attendees of the Neshoba County Fair itself:
Neshoba County Fair, Philadelphia, Mississippi
Hotel/Motel accomodations near Philadelphia:

The statewide Clarion-Ledger newspaper:
Early morning visitors to the Neshoba County Fair in Philadelphia, Miss., walk across the grounds near Founders Square, Wednesday , Aug. 1, 2018, at one of the biggest political events of the year in the state. Rogelio V. Solis, AP

The event's heading among the other fairs and events on festivalnet.com:
Neshoba County Fair 2019, a State Fair in Philadelphia, Mississippi

Tim Moore holds the job that's literally called the Executive Director of the Philadelphia-Neshoba Chamber of Commerce: "This fair, you have the chance to see an actual Indian basket being made from start to finish. There is beadwork, traditional social dancing and just kind of a little bit of the culture that the Choctaw Indian nation keeps going.”

David Vowell, President of Community Development Partnership, touts the Neshoba County Fair's success: "Back in 2013, the amount of sales tax diversion that came back to the city of Philadelphia was like $3.9 million. This year we are on target to get about $4.6 million. We are having a gradual growth because of all these little things growing into big things. We are proud of our community and the support we have."

The location and lead sentence of a NY Times article:
PHILADELPHIA, Miss. -- There were 33 members of the Williams family and their friends bedding down in Cabin 14 at the Neshoba County Fair...

Here's a link to the city of Philadelphia, Mississippi's website, promoting photographs of its annual Neshoba County Fair.


You want more, David? There are more.

It's been 38 years. It's well past time for you to cut this piece of "Reagan wasn't making a racist overture, and he wasn't even in Philadelphia" bullshit out of your repertoire. That you're reduced to the tattered Ray playbook of calling people "delusional" should be all the shaming you need on this factual point.

[EDIT: An ice-cold Coke to beat the Philadelphia heat to Misirlou.]
   1520. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:43 PM (#5738534)
I actually believe I'm wasting my time here


Try another gimmick. The Masked Superstar was a successful gimmick by any reasonable assessment but if Bill Eadie was satisfied with it he never would have been Demolition Axe.
   1521. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:46 PM (#5738535)
But why did Killer Kowalski have to tarnish his reputation as an Executioner?

edit...by donning the mask, I meant.
   1522. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:52 PM (#5738538)
The Texas Tribune’s Abby Livingston:
The issue that [Texas Rep. John] Carter is now rounding up donations from colleagues rather than giving them out could shape up to be a larger problem nationally for Republicans in the fall if there are enough similar races around the country.

The 8-term Congressman has won his previous eight races by margins of 22%, 32%, 34%, 67%, 24%, 20%, 32%, and 42%.

He’s running against M.J. Hegar, the woman whose “Doors” campaign ad was a donation-generating monster. In previous cycles, Carter has been a major donor to other GOP candidates in other parts of the country.

More from Livingston:
The first question of this race is if Hegar can put him on defense to the point that GOP groups have to buy TV advertising in his district - that pulls money from other races. So, Hegar could indirectly win a seat or two far away that isn't her own seat.
   1523. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:53 PM (#5738539)
I'm making leftist arguments grounded in serious academic work.


How very white of you.
   1524. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:54 PM (#5738540)
The Dallas News doesn't seem as sanguine as, to coin a phrase, "some people here":
'It's a race': Cruz allies will spend plenty to put brakes on Beto, keep Texas Senate seat red

Major GOP players are grappling with a possibility they haven't faced in decades. They may soon need to divert serious cash to Texas to protect their franchise there. For some, that would mean aiding a senator they don't much care for.

.........Roughly $315 million has poured into Senate and House races nationwide this year from super PACs and other outside groups. Hardly any of that has come into Texas so far — just $341,000, a blip in one of the nation's most expensive Senate races. That's about to change.

............In the 15 months since he'd jumped into the race, O'Rourke outraised Cruz $23.1 million to $12.9 million. Midyear reports released in early July showed the challenger had raised $10.4 million in the second quarter of 2018 — more than twice as much as Cruz.

.......In the first half of this year, [O'Rourke] took in 377,688 individual contributions, aides said. The average was only about $32. That's a huge list of supporters who haven't come close to the $2,700 cap. That's a spigot he can continue to tap.

..........The sense of unease and urgency is growing in a constellation of groups that Cruz may need. .........On Friday, Trump announced a "major rally" with Cruz in October in the biggest stadium he can find. O'Rourke called it a sign that Republicans are worried — and it's not the only strange bedfellows pairing the race has forged. In the 2016 presidential race, Cruz called Trump a "pathological liar." Now he's eagerly embracing help from the man who'd tarred him as "Lyin' Ted."

..............The Senate Leadership Fund, a super PAC founded by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has placed Cruz on a "watch list" and vowed to spend in Texas if needed. ..............Cruz framed his 2016 White House bid as a crusade against the Washington "cartel," of which McConnell was a key player. In his campaign autobiography, A Time for Truth, he singled out McConnell repeatedly for merely posturing as a conservative, and for fudging the truth. He even took to the Senate floor to explicitly call McConnell a liar.

.......Democrats and some pundits have foretold a looming shift away from Republican control in Texas pretty much every two years for the last two decades. Now that the threat is genuine, it's not sinking in fast enough to quell concerns by Cruz allies.

Taking away millions of dollars from "toss up" and "lean" House incumbents in order to rescue a Republican Senate seat in Texas might turn out to be a problem, even if it succeeds.
   1525. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:54 PM (#5738541)
But why did Killer Kowalski have to tarnish his reputation as an Executioner?


He was helping one of his students get over in the WWWF.
   1526. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:57 PM (#5738543)
Taking away millions of dollars from "toss up" and "lean" House incumbents in order to rescue a Republican Senate seat in Texas might turn out to be a problem, even if it succeeds.


Does that mean it might be worth watching?
   1527. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:58 PM (#5738544)
He was helping one of his students get over in the WWWF.


Studd?
   1528. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:58 PM (#5738545)
See how the intern flashed it in there? And all the others? It's a meme dude. The meme is to show how edgy you are by being a racist close to the power centers of America.
Alternative theory (to the one about all the Jewish white power supporters): you’re a nut. Ok signs are just ok signs, and don’t become white power signs just because some alleged white supremacist uses one. You’re just as nutty as the Pam Gellars of the world seeing Islamic signs everywhere they look. (Remember the Obama terrorist fist bump? Or the Islamic crescent Flight 93 memorial?)
   1529. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 06:59 PM (#5738546)
CNBC:
The announcement of a presidential campaign trip more than a month in advance reflects the growing sense of panic among Republicans, who fear that a Senate seat once considered among the most solidly Republican in all of American politics could be up for grabs.

.............The same August Marist poll that showed O'Rourke closing in on Cruz also revealed that the president's approval ratings among adults in the Lone Star State are underwater. Only 43 percent of the nearly 1,000 respondents in the weighted survey said they approved of the job Trump is doing as president. Forty-six percent, meanwhile, said they disapproved.

For Cruz, the idea that his fellow Republican, the president, could actually harm his re-election prospects in Texas would be an especially bitter pill for the senator, who lost the 2016 Republican presidential primary to Trump.
   1530. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:02 PM (#5738547)
One possible reason why Texas doesn't see Ted Cruz as their generation's Chuck Yeager:

NY Magazine:
Ted Cruz Loses Last Scrap of Dignity, Writes Time Tribute to His Bully, Donald Trump

During the Republican campaign... Ted Cruz attempted to demonstrate his manhood by declaring, “Donald, you sniveling coward.” But times have changed, and now Cruz has been called upon to write a public tribute in Time magazine to the man who bullied him and attacked his family.

In his entry for the magazine’s 100 Most Influential People of 2018, Cruz omits such Trumpian achievements as getting to the bottom of the Kennedy assassination and marrying a hotter babe than Ted Cruz could snag. Instead, he credits Trump with triggering the liberals:
President Trump is a flash-bang grenade thrown into Washington by the forgotten men and women of America. The fact that his first year as Commander in Chief disoriented and distressed members of the media and political establishment is not a bug but a feature.

The same cultural safe spaces that blinkered coastal elites to candidate Trump’s popularity have rendered them blind to President Trump’s achievements on behalf of ordinary Americans. While pundits obsessed over tweets, he worked with Congress to cut taxes for struggling families. While wealthy celebrities announced that they would flee the country, he fought to bring back jobs and industries to our shores. While talking heads predicted Armageddon, President Trump’s strong stand against North Korea put Kim Jong Un back on his heels.

President Trump is doing what he was elected to do: disrupt the status quo. That scares the heck out of those who have controlled Washington for decades, but for millions of Americans, their confusion is great fun to watch.

Now that is some sniveling cowardice. Literally every single sentence of this tribute, which I have reproduced in its entirety, mentions the fact that some enemy of the Republican tribe is upset. The Washington Establishment, wealthy celebrities (Trump himself not included), pundits, and on and on, Cruz argues that Trump is great because he triggers their enemies.

But the thing is, Trump has also triggered Ted Cruz.
   1531. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:04 PM (#5738548)
But Ted Cruz has figured out the way to turn his election momentum around: That potty-mouth Beto O’Rourke says the "f-word."
   1532. BDC Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:05 PM (#5738549)
Gonfalon, Gonfalon, clearly there is a gigantic difference between Klan-ridden Philadelphia and colorblind, egalitarian Neshoba County.

Yeah, no, I dunno. I am only a recently-adoptive semi-Southerner, but still. Seriously. Listen to Sam on this issue, folks.

I will say that I have not learned any white-supremacist hand signs since moving to Texas. My fault for not getting out of my bubble more, I guess :)

   1533. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:05 PM (#5738550)
Studd?


Yup.
   1534. aberg Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:16 PM (#5738551)
Studd?


Yup.


I believe you mean Executioner #2.
   1535. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:20 PM (#5738553)
I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD SHUT YOUR YAP
   1536. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:22 PM (#5738554)
Zina Bash is flashing a white power sign behind Brett Kavanaugh during his confirmation hearings. On live television, knowingly, and with intent.

This is complete and utter idiocy, All the woman did was allow the thumb and forefinger on one hand to touch (or nearly so) as she sat patiently with arms folded through a lengthy hearing. That's a common movement, without any symbolism to most people. Zina Best is a Harvard Law School grad who not only clerked for Kavanaugh but at the Supreme Court, and has gone on to hold significant positions on Capitol Hill, in politics, and at the White House. There's not even a smidgen of evidence to indicate she is a white supremacist. This is a vile smear from the neo-McCarthyite, just-make-stuff-up, ends-justifies-the-means crowd that is too dumb to realize that they are merely beclowning themselves.

This is even dumber than the claim that an 82-year old government official electing to retire on a full-salary pension (indexed for inflation!) was being coerced to do so, or dictating his successor, depending on which limb of the conspiracy tree one was going out on. That the Kavanaugh opposition has to resort to such tactics is just another indication of their desperation. They're going to lose, but hope to rally the base with one absurd charge after another.
   1537. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:26 PM (#5738555)
Yankee Clapper:
This is complete and utter idiocy... There's not even a smidgen of evidence... This is a vile smear from the neo-McCarthyite, just-make-stuff-up, ends-justifies-the-means crowd that is too dumb to realize that they are merely beclowning themselves.

Yankee Clapper, yesterday (which was two days after the Toronto reporter said "none of the Bloomberg interviewers was my source"):
It's a bit much to blame Trump for Bloomberg News blatantly violating their off-the-record agreement. Trump, other presidents, and numerous politicians at all levels talk to journalists off-the-record in the belief that it is mutually beneficial and the journalists will keep their part of the bargain. Apparently someone at Bloomberg thought sticking it to Trump was more important than basic journalistic ethics, which by now isn't much of a surprise.
   1538. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:26 PM (#5738556)
Gonfalon, Gonfalon, clearly there is a gigantic difference between Klan-ridden Philadelphia and colorblind, egalitarian Neshoba County.
That is not, and never was, my point. (Note that none of Gonfalon’s links show anything other than that the Fair takes place near Philadelphia.) That’s just a added little jiggle about the larger absurdity of the argument, which was literally nothing other than the claim that simply being near a place where something bad happened a long time before was somehow evidence of something related to that bad thing.
   1539. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:29 PM (#5738558)
I swear I thought that was a YR post aping Clapper before I saw the name. Dude is there ANY pomp and title you won't kneel before? JFC that was like the machine learning version of a clapper post.

Oooh she went to Harvard can't be bad, come on!
   1540. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:32 PM (#5738559)
She's an overwhelming qualified person sitting behind another person on television. If some here seek to attack her impeccable sitting-behind-a-person credentials, I suspect they will be dissatisfied with the outcome. But time will tell.
   1541. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:36 PM (#5738561)
the larger absurdity of the argument, which was literally nothing other than the claim that simply being near a place where something bad happened a long time before was somehow evidence of something related to that bad thing.


Something bad happened. Sure. It's not like the something bad was a tornado or a deranged young woman axe murdered her family.

Reagan gave a speech, his first after being officially nominated, about states rights, in a place where three civil rights workers were murdered by local police because they were threatening their state's right to deny rights to a large minority of its population.
   1542. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:40 PM (#5738562)
Re: #1538--
David N. knows that the criticism of Reagan's campaign strategy is not "literally nothing other than the claim that simply being near a place where something bad happened a long time before was somehow evidence of something related to that bad thing." That's a paltry and disingenuous defense that David would crush in 2 seconds if it came from anyone else here.
   1543. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:45 PM (#5738563)
the Fair takes place near Philadelphia.


As did the murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner. And yet no one is confused when it is referred to as the Philadelphia murders.
   1544. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:52 PM (#5738567)
The county fairgrounds were not at all in Philadelphia, Mississippi,

Neshoba County Fairgrounds contact page

Note the address:

16800 Hwy 21 South, Philadelphia

Yes, I know it's not technically in the city limits, but come on. This is a stretch even for you.


David's been playing this particular game for over 10 years. He seems to think it matters which side of the Philadelphia city limits the Neshoba County Fairgrounds are in, just as he thinks that of all the gin joints venues in the world to launch his campaign with a States Rights speech, the choice of Neshoba County, Mississippi was purely coincidental. As if Ronald Reagan, who was quite alive and politically conscious in 1964, had no idea where those three murders took place.

Oh, and just to put that "a long time before" in a bit of perspective, the time lapse between the triple murders and Reagan's speech was less than the time between 9/11 and today. There wasn't a single person in the state of Mississippi over the age of about 25 who wouldn't have been aware of that horrific event, even if many of them were still blaming the victims.

EDIT: cokes to everyone
   1545. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 07:54 PM (#5738570)
had no idea where those three murders took place.


Well it wasn't Philadelphia, that's for sure:

Price eventually caught the CORE station wagon heading west toward Union, Mississippi, on state highway 492. Soon he stopped them and escorted the three civil right workers north on Highway 19, back in the direction of Philadelphia. The caravan turned west on County Road 515 (also known as Rock Cut Road), and stopped at the secluded intersection of County Road 515 and County Road 284 (32°39′40.45″N 89°2′4.13″W). They were shot by Jordan and Roberts. Chaney was also beaten before his death.
   1546. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:06 PM (#5738573)
the Fair takes place near Philadelphia.

As did the murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner. And yet no one is confused when it is referred to as the Philadelphia murders.

The murder site itself was at most 10 miles East of the County Fairgrounds.
   1547. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:15 PM (#5738575)
1536 The Yankkee Clapper wrote
Zina Best is a Harvard Law School grad who not only clerked for Kavanaugh but at the Supreme Court, and has gone on to hold significant positions on Capitol Hill, in politics, and at the White House. There's not even a smidgen of evidence to indicate she is a white supremacist.

We actually found proof, thanks to her LinkedIn page, which revealed that she was an immigration policy advisor for the Trump/Pence presidential transition team.
   1548. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:27 PM (#5738578)
Also, someone on Twitter is posting apparently legitimate screenshots showing that for a while Zina Best held membership with the “Texas Grand Old Party,” a White Nationalist organization based in the US. It’s unclear at this time whether Miss Best actuslly did anything for this TxGOP group but, at the very least, it raises significant questions.
   1549. BDC Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:27 PM (#5738579)
simply being near a place where something bad happened a long time before was somehow evidence of something related to that bad thing


Maybe. Although, to keep things on a level far enough back to be frivolous for 21st-century Americans, suppose Macron suggests to May that the two of them meet a neutral site to hammer out post-Brexit border issues. Where shall we meet? he says, and she answers "Waterloo, Belgium." Should he be cool with that? The actual battle wasn't in the town center, after all. She means nothing by it except mutual convenience, right? Equidistant from London and Paris and all that :)
   1550. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:28 PM (#5738580)
Well, there is another photo, with a clearer image of the A-OK sign, but it still looks completely innocuous to me.
   1551. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:32 PM (#5738584)
It’s unclear at this time whether Miss Best actuslly did anything for this TxGOP group but, at the very least, it raises significant questions.


Might be worth watching.
   1552. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:45 PM (#5738596)
Yankee Clapper, #1550:
Well, there is another photo, with a clearer image of the A-OK sign, but it still looks completely innocuous to me.

There's also a photo of Yankee Clapper's unfailing service to the party.
   1553. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:46 PM (#5738597)
We actually found proof, thanks to her LinkedIn page, which revealed that she was an immigration policy advisor for the Trump/Pence presidential transition team.


That's where they seem to have piled up, although they are spread throughout the admin, including at the highest levels at DHS and ICE.

Well, there is another photo, with a clearer image of the A-OK sign, but it still looks completely innocuous to me.


That's because you don't have the primary source context. You're probably not on 4chan (although at this point 4chan is passe) or GAB or whatever (or playing Call of Duty) and seeing the Trump memes, mostly from young white men -- including the "OK" sign.

No offense to the old people here (hell I'm 35 now, ####) but you guys have no idea about meme culture, gaming culture, and in general Internet culture (among a subset) and its impact on the Trump election. Gamergate happened because angry white men 18-35ish, mostly uneducated and idle, are a thing. And Trump happened at least partially on the back of their vote in the swing states.
   1554. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:53 PM (#5738601)
No offense to the old people here (hell I'm 35 now, ####) but you guys have no idea about meme culture, gaming culture, and in general Internet culture (among a subset) and its impact on the Trump election.


I'll cop to that (I'm 55).
   1555. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:55 PM (#5738603)
You can tell Clapper is concerned this might actually stick.

Brett Kavanaugh's clerk is a white supremacist, openly flashing signs of it on national television. Is it wrong to suggest Kavanaugh himself might be a neo-Nazi? It would be wrong not to ask. /cavuto
   1556. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:56 PM (#5738604)
Brett Kavanaugh's clerk is a white supremacist, openly flashing signs of it on national television. Is it wrong to suggest Kavanaugh himself might be a neo-Nazi? It would be wrong not to ask. /cavuto


Might be worth watching.
   1557. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:57 PM (#5738608)
That's where they seem to have piled up, although they are spread throughout the admin, including at the highest levels at DHS and ICE.


Yes. At this point, anyone involved in the regime's immigration policy should be assumed a racist until shown otherwise. It's literally the only policy they, or Trump, who is also a racist, white supremacist ####, care about. They will punt anything else, but they will never let go of Stephen Miller's ethnic cleansing campaign.
   1558. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:58 PM (#5738609)
Gamergate happened because angry white men 18-35ish, mostly uneducated and idle, are a thing. And Trump happened at least partially on the back of their vote in the swing states.


Absolute, categorical truth.
   1559. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 08:59 PM (#5738611)
Great news for Clapper. The 538 House projection has taken a huge turn against Democrats. This afternoon it was 80.3% for Dems to re-take the House and begin investigating Trump up the ass. But now it's all the way down to 79.6%. I just wanted him to know, as he takes so much pleasure in wild poll swings like that.
   1560. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:06 PM (#5738617)
Absolute, categorical truth.


they were also ripping off swooshes today on twitter, what a lovely group.
   1561. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5738620)

No offense to the old people here (hell I'm 35 now, ####)

Well, I was born in 1944, and when I turned 35, that's when The Decline began. I take full responsibility.
   1562. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:11 PM (#5738625)
Gamergate happened because angry white men 18-35ish, mostly uneducated and idle, are a thing. And Trump happened at least partially on the back of their vote in the swing states.
I mean, made up facts are made up, but whatever.
   1563. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5738629)
I mean, made up facts are made up, but whatever.


You mean like the massive distinction between Philadelphia and Neshoba County? You're out of your element, Donnie.
   1564. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:19 PM (#5738632)

David N. knows that the criticism of Reagan's campaign strategy is not "literally nothing other than the claim that simply being near a place where something bad happened a long time before was somehow evidence of something related to that bad thing." That's a paltry and disingenuous defense that David would crush in 2 seconds if it came from anyone else here.
True. What I should have said is that it's literally nothing other than the claim that a Republican simply being near a place where something bad happened a long time before was somehow evidence of something related to that bad thing.
   1565. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5738634)
What I should have said is that it's literally nothing other than the claim that a Republican simply being near a place where something bad happened a long time before was somehow evidence of something related to that bad thing.


This line of argument is right out of the SBB playbook. It's not a good look for you.
   1566. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:24 PM (#5738636)
Boyhood heroes are a tough habit to break, David. It's still okay to like Ronald Reagan while acknowledging that he did this vile thing.
   1567. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:26 PM (#5738638)
Bloomberg News leaks even more Trump quotes:


On federal judgeships:
TRUMP: We – and we have great judges. I put on judges that – when I got here, I had 145 openings. Nobody’s ever had that before. And that was because something happened in the last three years of Obama where he didn’t put judges on. I think they forgot. I really do, I believe they forgot.
On negotiations with North Korea:
TRUMP: I have greater patience than any human being in the world. People don’t understand that about me. I have great patience. .........And I signed a document -- you know, that document I signed said there will be a denuclearization. You know, everyone says we didn’t agree -- we agreed to a lot of very positive things. Did you get a copy of the document?

BLOOMBERG: Yes. We did.

TRUMP: Nobody reports it.
On tariff wars with China:
BLOOMBERG: Mr. President, you told the Chinese -- the Chinese say, ‘Look, we’re going to wait him out’ because Xi is an autocrat, doesn’t have to do midterm elections. He doesn’t. He can…

TRUMP: He has his own election. He has a different kind of election.
On removing U.S. troops from Afghanistan:
BLOOMBERG: Can you get out of Afghanistan?

TRUMP: But -- but I just -- I do want to say this -- I do want to say this and that will be the last, but what that would mean, I’m doing a great job. And fair people would say you look at foreign relations, you look at what’s going on, you look at so many -- look at -- look at labor. I mean labor loves me. I won the labor vote. You look at those people in line today [to vote in the primary].
On currency valuation and tariffs and trade deals:
TRUMP: No, I -- I’m -- I’m not-- look, my businesses have been very strong. I’ve done very well. I understand it. I think I understand it better than the so-called economists, where you -- mostly, it’s a flip a coin and pick. Is it heads or tails? They have no clue. But -- but at the same time, I’m not sure that we should ever allow politicians to control very important things, you know, strong monetary policy, the things that the Fed right now controls. But China is being accommodated because they can do whatever they want, and the euro is being accommodated because they basically do whatever they want, and we are not being accommodated at all by the trade.

BLOOMBERG: But you don’t regret picking Jay Powell?

TRUMP: No, I don’t regret. I think somebody else would maybe -- what I’m saying is that we are fighting horrible trade deals that were made by people that were either incompetent or didn’t care. And -- and I should be -- I should be allowed -- and -- and they -- and those -- those countries are being accommodated by their monetary policy. Our country is not.

SARAH SANDERS: Sir, we have just a few more minutes.

TRUMP: Leave it a little bit longer, it’s fine. I actually find it intellectually stimulating.
   1568. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5738640)
@renato_mariotti:
Yesterday the President of the United States publicly condemned the Attorney General for failing to quash the criminal investigations of two of his political allies.

Today, we've already moved on. No one is talking about it. Trump's corrupt statements have become the new normal.
   1569. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5738651)
Boyhood heroes are a tough habit to break, David. It's still okay to like Ronald Reagan while acknowledging that he did this vile thing.
Reagan did bad things. This wasn't one of them. (Let alone vile.) He gave a speech at a large entirely neutral public gathering in a swing state. He gave the same speech that he had been giving all throughout the campaign (no, this speech did not kick off his campaign), north, south, east, and west. He didn't say anything wrong in the speech. And the fact that something had happened nearby many years earlier does absolutely nothing to make the speech wronger.

It's terrible arguments like yours that got Trump elected. Trump is genuinely an awful person, but the boy cried wolf way way way way too many times.


EDIT: Oh, and Reagan was not even remotely in the same zip code as a boyhood hero of mine. I mean, in 1980 I was in elementary school, but when I became politically aware in the 1980s I was a standard liberal Jewish Democrat. Even back then in 1980 I knew Carter was terrible, but I rooted for Mondale and Dukakis. I voted for Clinton. Twice.
   1570. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5738652)
Brett Kavanaugh's clerk is a white supremacist, openly flashing signs of it on national television. Is it wrong to suggest Kavanaugh himself might be a neo-Nazi? It would be wrong not to ask.

Can you get any non-looney bin Democrat to say that out loud? Even one member of the Judiciary Committee? Say what you will about those folks, they're not as dumb as a manure munching moron like Sam. That he thinks he has something here says a lot, about him.
   1571. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5738658)
He gave the same speech that he had been giving all throughout the campaign (no, this speech did not kick off his campaign),


No, it just was the first speech of his general election campaign. That is happened in a swing state (seems odd now) where an infamous murder by local law enforcement over the issue of states rights (and where the issue was a still is a very popular one) is indeed merely a coincidence.

Reagan could have chosen anywhere in the country to give his first post-convention states rights speech. That he chose Philadelphia Mississippi, as a signal to southern whites that he had there back, was not a coincidence.

Again, reducing it to "Reagan gave a speech near where something bad happened" is SBB level sophistry.
   1572. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:00 PM (#5738661)
Wall Street is near where the WTC used to be. A candidate giving a speech on the steps of the NYSE about an economic plan is giving a speech near where something bad happened. A candidate giving a coded anti Muslim speech at the same location is also giving a speech near where something bad happened. Somehow, the latter is different.
   1573. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:01 PM (#5738662)
Reagan could have chosen anywhere in the country to give his first post-convention states rights speech. That he chose Philadelphia Mississippi, as a signal to southern whites that he had there back, was not a coincidence.

That's undoubtedly why Reagan carried every northeastern state except Rhode Island.
   1574. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5738664)
That's undoubtedly why Reagan carried every northeastern state except Rhode Island.


Don't you have some approval rating polls to post?
   1575. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5738666)
That is happened in a swing state (seems odd now)


There's a reason Mississippi was a swing state then, and isn't now. It has a good deal to do with who sang the sweet, sweet song of "states' rights" to them in the wake of that mean old Federal monster telling them to treat the help as if they real human white people.
   1576. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5738667)
I have no idea if she was flashing a white supremacy symbol or not (and neither does anyone here).

Of course I don't need to know to understand how racist Trump and his administration are. I mean seriously is anyone out there thinking "Hey, I had no idea Trump was racist, but hand signal girl totally turned that around!"
   1577. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5738668)
Can you get any non-looney bin Democrat to say that out loud?


Do you type while swallowing, or do you take breaks?
   1578. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5738670)
1568. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: September 04, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5738640)
@renato_mariotti:
Yesterday the President of the United States publicly condemned the Attorney General for failing to quash the criminal investigations of two of his political allies.

Today, we've already moved on. No one is talking about it. Trump's corrupt statements have become the new normal.

It’s because literally everyone except professional journalists recognizes that Trump’s tweets are just the inane blitherings of a senile Fox News grandpa, and we treat them accordingly.
   1579. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5738678)

Reagan could have chosen anywhere in the country to give his first post-convention states rights speech. That he chose Philadelphia Mississippi, as a signal to southern whites that he had there back, was not a coincidence.
Sure it was. Moreover, anywhere he gave the speech, the dishonest left would have made the same argument. "Oh, he gave a speech in Jackson, which is where Medgar Evers was murdered. That's not a coincidence." "Oh, he gave a speech in Birmingham, which is where the 16th Street Baptist Church was bombed. That's not a coincidence." "Oh, he gave a speech in Memphis, which is where MLK was assassinated. That's not a coincidence." "Oh, he gave a speech in Selma, which is where James Reeb was killed. That's not a coincidence." "Oh, he gave a speech in Sumner County, which is where Emmitt Till was lynched. That's not a coincidence." "Oh, he gave a speech in Little Rock, where Orval Faubus blocked the schoolhouse door. That's not a coincidence."

After giving this speech -- I love the Andyesqe gerrymandering to come up with "first post-convention speech" -- he then went and spoke to the Urban League in NY, as part of a strong push to pick up black votes. As David Brooks noted:
In reality, Reagan strategists decided to spend the week following the 1980 Republican convention courting African-American votes. Reagan delivered a major address at the Urban League, visited Vernon Jordan in the hospital where he was recovering from gunshot wounds, toured the South Bronx and traveled to Chicago to meet with the editorial boards of Ebony and Jet magazines.
All right after the Neshoba County Fair speech. Sort of an odd approach if he were trying to win the racist white vote away from Jimmy "ethnic purity of their neighborhoods" Carter.
   1580. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:22 PM (#5738681)

Wall Street is near where the WTC used to be. A candidate giving a speech on the steps of the NYSE about an economic plan is giving a speech near where something bad happened. A candidate giving a coded anti Muslim speech at the same location is also giving a speech near where something bad happened. Somehow, the latter is different.
No, it isn't. Plus, your analogy begs the question. Reagan's speech wasn't a coded anti-black speech. And the reason we know that is because (a) he said nothing anti-black, and (b) he said the same thing he said everywhere.
   1581. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5738682)
guys what if democrats is the real racests
   1582. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:30 PM (#5738688)
It's terrible arguments like yours that got Trump elected


When in doubt blame the hippies.
   1583. Howie Menckel Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:33 PM (#5738691)

Piper Perabo
‏Verified account @PiperPerabo
9h9 hours ago

I was just arrested for civil disobedience in the Kavanaugh hearings.

Many citizens before me have fought for the equal rights of women. I can’t be silent when someone is nominated to the Supreme Court who would take our equal rights away.
   1584. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:42 PM (#5738694)
Re: #1569/1579--
Just a rough guess on your boyhood chronology, David, based on the debut of your screen name parenthetical, and the assumption that you weren't a 20-year-old papa. Apologies for your childhood suffering. When you're stronger, you can show us on the doll where Mondale touched you.

As for the rest of your Reagan blind spot that's not even blind, the Donald Trump that I elected with my terrible argument has a favorite three-letter adjective that comes to mind. Fans of states' rights who also elected Trump haven't had any trouble decoding Trump's similarly symbolic choices of place and language (when scripted). And neither have you.

Someone as nimble as yourself in spotting and targeting gestures, implications, deflections, denials of the obvious, name-calling refutations, and hypotheticals that make bad group look bad? That someone-- let's call him "Navid Dieporent"-- would make mincemeat out of this alibi: "Just one unremarkable speech of many, in a random location that could have been anywhere, at a totally different time, in a country with a racist event in every town, made by a Republican."

It would be brutally entertaining. Too bad this alibi was posted by the one person you won't rebut.
   1585. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5738697)
There was actual election news today - another Democratic Congressman, 10-term incumbent Mike Capuano of Massachusetts, was taken down from the left in his primary. Most potentially vulnerable Democrats are past their primaries, so they're OK for this election, but look for continued leftward drift in the party in the weeks ahead.
   1586. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5738703)
Most potentially vulnerable Democrats are past their primaries,


The R opponent in this race is named "Unopposed", so, not so vulnerable.
   1587. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:52 PM (#5738705)
It's just one more piece of the 12th-level chess game being played by Grandmaster Trash!

Politico's Tim Alberta:
"They know what's coming. You will talk to some Republicans around town who have presence here who believe in some sort of three-dimensional Machiavellian scenario that losing the House of Representatives is the best possible thing that could happen to ensure Donald Trump's reelection in 2020. They believe that a young, inexperienced House Democratic majority with possibly new leadership in a number of positions all the way up to speaker perhaps would overreach, and provide the ideal foil for Donald Trump, and sort of rally the base around him.”



The R opponent in this race is named "Unopposed", so, not so vulnerable.


"The call is coming from inside the House (of Representatives)!"
   1588. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:54 PM (#5738708)
Mike Capuano


According to Wiki, his wife is one Barbara Teebagy. For reals. And his nephew is Captain America. Again, for reals.
   1589. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:55 PM (#5738709)
Most potentially vulnerable Democrats are past their primaries, so they're OK for this election, but look for continued leftward drift in the party in the weeks ahead.


I will take a leftward drift in my party over the prisonward drift in the GOP. I would have said Naziward drift, but that ship sailed already.
   1590. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:57 PM (#5738711)
and sort of rally the base around him.”


Trump's base is, at best, 35% of the country. He's been rallying the base for 18 months now, and his approval has never gotten above 50%. Let him keep rallying the base. Let the base keep rallying.
   1591. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:58 PM (#5738713)

1584: Your lack of evidence to refute the argument is conspicuous.
   1592. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 10:59 PM (#5738714)
Great news from 538. The latest House projection has the Dems chances all the way down to 79.3%! Not sure why Clapper isn't shouting that from the rooftops.
   1593. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:03 PM (#5738716)
Sure it was. Moreover, anywhere he gave the speech, the dishonest left would have made the same argument. "Oh, he gave a speech in Jackson, which is where Medgar Evers was murdered. That's not a coincidence." "Oh, he gave a speech in Birmingham, which is where the 16th Street Baptist Church was bombed. That's not a coincidence." "Oh, he gave a speech in Memphis, which is where MLK was assassinated. That's not a coincidence." "Oh, he gave a speech in Selma, which is where James Reeb was killed. That's not a coincidence." "Oh, he gave a speech in Sumner County, which is where Emmitt Till was lynched. That's not a coincidence." "Oh, he gave a speech in Little Rock, where Orval Faubus blocked the schoolhouse door. That's not a coincidence."


Then maybe don't make your symbolically important first post convention speech about states rights* in any of those places. Perception in politics is reality, and his choices were clear as to what perception he wanted to make. Don't get me wrong, it was good politics. Just bad citizenship.

I liked Reagan. I voted for him in 1984, my first time eligible. I was too young to take into consideration all the nuances at the time. I'm a little wiser now.

*which means something entirely different in Philadelphia, MS than it does in Boston, MA or Des Moines, IA.
   1594. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:08 PM (#5738718)
EDIT: Oh, and Reagan was not even remotely in the same zip code as a boyhood hero of mine. I mean, in 1980 I was in elementary school, but when I became politically aware in the 1980s I was a standard liberal Jewish Democrat. Even back then in 1980 I knew Carter was terrible, but I rooted for Mondale and Dukakis. I voted for Clinton. Twice.

That comment makes me curious.

What changed you? A book? An op-ed? A sermon? A mentor? A professor? Monica Lewinsky? Was there ever an "aha!" moment?
   1595. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5738723)
1584: Your lack of evidence to refute the argument is conspicuous.


1591: Your pretending not to hear this one semiquaver of dog whistle is meticulous, vermiculous and ridiculous.
   1596. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5738731)

Then maybe don't make your symbolically important first post convention speech
Symbolically important? What's the white power hand gesture for bullshit? Without looking it up, can anyone recall the location (or content) of the first post convention speech for any presidential nominee other than Reagan in 1980?

And if your argument hinges on the fact that states rights signified something different in some random place in the South than in some other place, then why are you claiming Reagan was sending a coded message, given that he wasn't from that random place in the South? Wouldn't it be more likely that Reagan was thinking of the Eureka, IL, or Hollywood, CA, or Sacramento, CA meaning, given that he was from those places?

Perception in politics is reality,
How very Trumpian a statement.
   1597. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:17 PM (#5738734)
1591: Your pretending not to hear this one semiquaver of dog whistle is meticulous, vermiculous and ridiculous.
Well, that's not surprising, since only dogs can hear dog whistles, and I'm not one. You should probably be questioning your life choices if you can hear them.
   1598. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:20 PM (#5738736)
Wouldn't it be more likely that Reagan was thinking of the Eureka, IL, or Hollywood, CA, or Sacramento, CA meaning, given that he was from those places?


No. two words. Lee Atwater:

"Southern strategy"[edit]
See also: Southern strategy
As a member of the Reagan administration in 1981, Atwater gave an anonymous interview to political scientist Alexander P. Lamis. Part of the interview was printed in Lamis' book The Two-Party South, then reprinted in Southern Politics in the 1990s with Atwater's name revealed. Bob Herbert reported on the interview in the October 6, 2005, issue of The New York Times. On November 13, 2012, The Nation magazine released a 42-minute audio recording of the interview.[10] James Carter IV, grandson of former president Jimmy Carter, had asked and been granted access to these tapes by Lamis' widow. Atwater talked about the Republican Southern strategy:

Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now you don't have to do that. All that you need to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues that he's campaigned on since 1964, and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.

Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?

Atwater: Y'all don't quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, \"######, ######, ######\". By 1968 you can't say \"######\"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this", is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than \"######, ######\".[11][12]

   1599. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:24 PM (#5738741)
No. two words. Lee Atwater:
There are three problems with that:
1) Lee Atwater was saying the opposite of what you and other liberals pretend he was saying in that paragraph.
2) Lee Atwater was talking about 1968 when he was referring to "state's rights"; his entire point was that politics had moved long past that by 1980.
3) Lee Atwater had nothing to do with Reagan's campaign, so whatever Lee Atwater thought sheds no light on what Ronald Reagan was thinking when he gave that speech.
   1600. Lassus Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:43 PM (#5738743)
I'm reasonably sure that like me, David was 6 when Carter was elected and 10 when he lost to Reagan.
Page 16 of 17 pages ‹ First  < 14 15 16 17 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
--
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogWeekend OMNICHATTER for September 22-23, 2018
(160 - 6:15pm, Sep 23)
Last: Bote Man the walk-off king

NewsblogOTP 2018 September 17: How Brett Kavanaugh explains his baseball ticket debt
(2206 - 6:14pm, Sep 23)
Last: Zonk is a Doppleclapper

NewsblogTim Anderson's eventful day at the yard ends with shot at Joe West: 'Everybody knows he's terrible'
(2 - 6:07pm, Sep 23)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

NewsblogTickets available as Marlins host Reds
(40 - 5:38pm, Sep 23)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (September 2018)
(384 - 5:15pm, Sep 23)
Last: BDC

NewsblogOT - 2018 NBA Thread (Pre-Season Edition)
(531 - 5:13pm, Sep 23)
Last: Der-K: at 10% emotional investment

Sox TherapyIT’S OVER
(7 - 4:31pm, Sep 23)
Last: Darren

NewsblogMariners extend longest postseason drought in major North American sports to 17 years
(3 - 4:25pm, Sep 23)
Last: BDC

NewsblogWainwright impresses Giants' Bochy
(14 - 4:14pm, Sep 23)
Last: caspian88

NewsblogHall of Famer John Smoltz says MLB needs an overhaul and proposes drastic changes
(86 - 3:32pm, Sep 23)
Last: Toby

NewsblogDodgers outfielder Yasiel Puig burglarized for the fourth time
(10 - 1:36pm, Sep 23)
Last: Bote Man the walk-off king

Gonfalon CubsThe Final Push
(164 - 1:36pm, Sep 23)
Last: Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com

NewsblogFive Tool Players | Articles | Bill James Online
(1 - 1:33pm, Sep 23)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(825 - 12:26pm, Sep 23)
Last: AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther

NewsblogJeff Banister fired as Texas Rangers manager
(12 - 11:55am, Sep 23)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature

Page rendered in 0.7287 seconds
46 querie(s) executed