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Tuesday, August 28, 2018

OTP 2018 August 27: Pitching politics

George Washington was known to throw a ball—for hours, reported one soldier under his command—with his aide-de-camp during the Revolutionary War. Abraham Lincoln would join baseball games on the lawn of Blair House, which still stands across Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House. “I remember how vividly he ran, how long were his strides, how far his coattails stuck out behind,” the home’s owner, Francis Preston Blair, recalled in a letter to his grandson.

The story of baseball in the United States is intertwined with that of the presidency, says Curt Smith, a senior lecturer in English and the author of The Presidents and the Pastime: The History of Baseball and the White House (University of Nebraska Press, 2018). He traces the points of connection from the colonial era to the present, devoting a chapter to each president since William Howard Taft, who in 1910 inaugurated the practice of the president throwing out a ceremonial first pitch.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 28, 2018 at 07:27 AM | 1644 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   1601. greenback slays lewks Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:44 PM (#5738744)
1) Lee Atwater was saying the opposite of what you and other liberals pretend he was saying in that paragraph.

It's pretty clear that Atwater was saying "We have a more subtle, and thus more effective, way to #### on black people than running around in white robes and burning crosses."

I remember doing tourist things around Munich right before an election, and being struck by a CSU billboard with a picture of some old guy, presumably a local politician, and the tagline "For Our Dachau." Local politicians have to do that, I guess. Somebody has to catch the rabid dog or make sure the street lights work, that kind of stuff, even in Dachau. This was a local politician talking to local people, who deal with the same local problems everybody has to deal with, and an American tourist of the Holocaust just happened to overhear the conversation.

When a candidate for the POTUS walks in, it's a bit different. Neshoba County, like Dachau or the aforementioned Waterloo, is known for that one thing. The editor for the local paper has a quote to that effect on Philadelphia's wikipedia page, so this is something the local people understand, and certainly would have understood thoroughly in 1980. I don't know that I buy that this was a coded signal to the southern racists. But the most charitable reading is that Reagan was walking into Neshoba County to say "let's pretend that unpleasantness just didn't happen." It's a coward's way out really.
   1602. Lassus Posted: September 04, 2018 at 11:45 PM (#5738745)
I'm reasonably sure that like me, David was 6 when Carter was elected and 10 when he lost to Reagan.
   1603. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 05, 2018 at 12:11 AM (#5738748)
David N, #1597:
only dogs can hear dog whistles, and I'm not one.

Happiness is a Warm Pedant.
   1604. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 12:34 AM (#5738756)

It's pretty clear that Atwater was saying "We have a more subtle, and thus more effective, way to #### on black people than running around in white robes and burning crosses."
Yeah, no, that's exactly what he's not saying. What he's saying is that while he can't rule out some subconscious appeal to racists, any supposedly racial aspects of the platform are so abstract that they no longer can be reasonably deemed racist. (Little did he realize how shameless race-card players were.)

When a candidate for the POTUS walks in, it's a bit different. Neshoba County, like Dachau or the aforementioned Waterloo, is known for that one thing. The editor for the local paper has a quote to that effect on Philadelphia's wikipedia page,
Again, you're taking a quote for the opposite of what it says. He's saying that people will always remember that thing, not that it's the one thing the town will be known for. Rather, he's expressly saying that it shouldn't be the one thing the town is known for anymore. And I'm not sure the logic of your argument. Why is it different for a local politician vs a national one? The national politician still needs those votes just like the local one does. Is a national politician (or at least a Republican one) simply not allowed to campaign in the South? Or is he allowed, as long as he yells at them and tells them they're racists -- for something that happened years earlier?

But the most charitable reading is that Reagan was walking into Neshoba County to say "let's pretend that unpleasantness just didn't happen."
That's the most charitable reading you can come up with? How about the fact that Reagan was running for president in 1980, not 1964?

When Michael Dukakis campaigned at the same fair 8 years later, was he dog whistling for racism, too?
   1605. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 12:35 AM (#5738757)

Lassus, you're apparently a year older than I am, so close but not quite.
   1606. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 12:37 AM (#5738759)
Bob Woodward’s new book


So, according to reporting, after Dowd and Trump's other lawyers put him through a mock interview with Mueller, and he failed miserably, they went to Mueller and pleaded with him to not press the issue of a formal interview on the basis that their client was incapable of telling the truth, and that all Mueller would get would be evidence of perjury rather than the answers he was seeking. Thus, the now rumored take home written test.

Ladies and gentlemen, your President of the United States.
   1607. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 12:39 AM (#5738761)
How about the fact that Reagan was running for president in 1980


...against a southern Democrat from a (almost) neighboring state.
   1608. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 12:49 AM (#5738764)
When Michael Dukakis campaigned at the same fair 8 years later, was he dog whistling for racism, too?


Was he talking about state's rights?
   1609. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 12:50 AM (#5738765)
Amy Siskind has now deleted her tweet accusing Zina Bash, the Mexican-American granddaughter of Holocaust survivors, of displaying a Nazi white power "hand sign" at the Kavanaugh hearing today, This came after CNN's Brian Sitter, among others, indicated it was nonsense, and those spreading such smears needed to look in the mirror (although many on the Twitter-left were not receptive to that message). Further study of the images has now convinced knowledgeable observers that Ms. Bash was likely just sending a message to Sam & Art Wall in American Sign Language.

   1610. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 05, 2018 at 12:53 AM (#5738767)
#1604:
When Michael Dukakis campaigned at the same fair 8 years later, was he dog whistling for racism, too?


If Dukakis did a states' rights wink-wink, then yes, he was. But he wasn't.

Chicago Tribune, 1988:

PHILADELPHIA, MISS. — At a traditional forum for Old South politics and racism, Michael Dukakis appealed Thursday to Mississippi Democrats to "bring down the barriers to opportunity."

And, although his speech at the Neshoba County Fair was long on symbolism, it was short on specifics.

...While his talk repeated familiar themes of jobs and education, it contrasted sharply with the August, 1980, campaign appearance to the same county fair of then-presidential candidate Ronald Reagan, who came here with a message that used code words familiar to segregationists of the '60s.

"I believe in states' rights," Reagan declared then to an estimated 10,000 people. "I believe in people doing as much as they can at the private level."

On Thursday, Dukakis delivered a message that would separate his campaign from Reagan's and from that of his election rival, Vice President George Bush. "Here in Mississippi," he said to the mostly white audience, "you know the importance of equal rights and civil rights. And especially today, I say to all Americans - not just those in Neshoba County, but all over - we have to work together."


Ask harder questions. After all, you're not a dog.
   1611. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:06 AM (#5738770)

So the problem isn't speaking in Neshoba County; it's just not being a left-winger there. Got it.
   1612. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:08 AM (#5738771)
If you're changing up your writing style this way, you need to include "this space" and "give me a D."
   1613. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:08 AM (#5738772)
So the problem isn't speaking in Neshoba County; it's just not being a left-winger there. Got it.


Again, the SBB look is not a good one. My friend David says so.
   1614. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:16 AM (#5738773)
EDIT window closed, but the CNN journalist referenced in #1609 should be Brian Stelter, the host of their Reliable Ssources program, among other assignments. Typo & auto-correct conspiring against me there.
   1615. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:18 AM (#5738774)
LA Times:

"But Dukakis' mention of civil rights was one brief line in the middle of a 20-minute speech, and he omitted any mention of the three civil rights workers, two Jews and a black, whose murder here in 1964 outraged the nation."

NYT:

"While [Dukakis] pledged to ''bring down the barriers to opportunity for all our people,'' he made only passing reference to the problems of American minorities in a speech to an almost entirely white crowd at the Neshoba County Fair, 24 years to the day since the bodies of three slain civil rights workers were found under an earthen dam nine miles from here.

Mr. Dukakis mentioned that he was near the birthplace of Dennis (Oil Can) Boyd, a pitcher for the Boston Red Sox who was born in nearby Meridian. But he did not mention the three young civil rights workers: Andrew Goodman and Michael H. Schwerner, both whites from New York, and James E. Chaney, a black who was born in Meridian. The three were slain on a back road by a gang of Ku Klux Klansmen on the night of June 21, 1964, and found 44 days later, on Aug. 4.
   1616. tshipman Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:19 AM (#5738775)
I mean, I know no one cares but:

President Trump’s former top economic adviser, Gary Cohn, twice pulled paperwork off of Trump’s desk that the president was intending to sign to withdraw the United States from trade agreements, according to a forthcoming book from veteran journalist Bob Woodward.

The Washington Post, which obtained an advance copy of the book, reported Tuesday that Cohn “stole a letter off Trump’s desk” that would have formally withdrawn the U.S. from a trade agreement with South Korea.

Cohn later told an associate that Trump didn’t notice the letter was missing. Cohn also reportedly said he took the letter from Trump to protect national security.

The then-director of the National Economic Council separately pulled a different letter from Trump’s desk in spring 2017 that would have pulled the U.S. out of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), according to the Post.



This is really, really troubling. Not just the things that got swiped, but the fact that there is a de facto administrative coup going on in slow motion is incredibly disturbing.

And every single Republican is just pretending this isn't true.
   1617. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:21 AM (#5738776)
Meanwhile, it's sort of an odd racist "dog whistle" for Reagan to tell the audience that most welfare recipients don't want to be on welfare but would rather work and it's the fault of bureaucrats keeping them on welfare. But, hey, he mentioned once in the speech a concept that he had been mentioning in every part of the country, and something bad happened in the general vicinity years earlier, so...
   1618. Shredder Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:30 AM (#5738778)
I liked Reagan. I voted for him in 1984, my first time eligible. I was too young to take into consideration all the nuances at the time. I'm a little wiser now.
I'm apparently a youngin' on OTP. In a poll of my 34 person fifth grade class in 1984 in my blue collar town, 32 kids raised their hands for Ronald Reagan. Me and Steven Swanson raised our hands for Mondale. Who knew Mrs. Forest's* class at Longden** Elementary in Temple City, CA was such a bellwether for the nation?

*Fun fact: Her daughter is married to Ben Crenshaw.
**Named for famous jockey Johnny Longden***! It's a couple miles from Santa Anita race track, across the street from which I was born.
***Or more accurately, named after Longden Avenue, it's norther border, which was named after Johnny Longden.
   1619. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:35 AM (#5738780)
Steven Swanson is a commie.
   1620. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:42 AM (#5738781)
Aww yeah, my hometown is in the news! Let's see.....

Autopsy: North Dakota man killed by police was shot in the back of the head

Fuller's sister, Allyson Bartlett, said her family was told by the North Dakota Bureau of Criminal Investigation, which is assisting in the case, that police found Fuller lying in the grass. Investigators won't show the family the dashcam video that caught the seconds leading up to the shooting, but Marla Fuller—Daniel Fuller's mother—said she was told by the BCI that her son was pistol-whipped three times by an officer before being shot in the back of the head.

The autopsy report that was shown to Forum News Service by Daniel Fuller's family states the bullet entered the midline of the back of his head near the level of his ears. The skin around the bullet wound was blackened with soot, and there are indications he suffered blunt force injuries to his head, the report said.

The Devils Lake Police Department released Daniel Fuller's name the day after he was fatally shot, but it has not identified the officers involved in the shooting, citing legal advice from Ramsey County State's Attorney Kari Agotness. The officers have invoked Marsy's Law to keep their names from being made public.

(...)Fuller's family is calling for criminal charges against the officer who fired the weapon.

oh, that.
   1621. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 01:56 AM (#5738782)

It's okay, Davo: the dead guy is white so you don't have to pretend to care.
   1622. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 05, 2018 at 02:54 AM (#5738784)
If there's two things I love, it's liberal identity politics and police violence.

Mr Nieporent, you can read me like a book.
   1623. Lassus Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:16 AM (#5738785)
Lassus, you're apparently a year older than I am, so close but not quite.

I'm not sure how the kindergarten election went, but the 1st-grade return had Carter pulling out a victory by two votes. His more genuine smile and lack of movies containing monkeys did swing my vote in his favor that year. When 1980 rolled around my mother and I discussed the fact that we were concerned Reagan might start shooting at random deer in the woods because he wasn't smart enough to realize they actually weren't bears, and that bear attacks were in fact a non-threat. I don't recall how the 5th-grade election turned out that year, but he lost my vote on his shitty metaphor.
   1624. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:20 AM (#5738787)
Neshoba County, like Dachau or the aforementioned Waterloo, is known for that one thing.


Miss Winnie’s homemade biscuits out off Highway 16.
   1625. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:27 AM (#5738788)
This is really, really troubling. Not just the things that got swiped, but the fact that there is a de facto administrative coup going on in slow motion is incredibly disturbing.


The real question is what is Donald J Trump going to do about it? Stealing from the president is a crime. Will he demand prosecution? Did Hillary order this? How is this any different than stealing papers from the Watergate Hotel? Where is the outrage?
   1626. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:29 AM (#5738789)
It's okay, Davo: the dead guy is white so you don't have to pretend to care.


He can care a little. I bet the white privileged gave him a quick death.
   1627. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 07:01 AM (#5738790)
So, according to reporting, after Dowd and Trump's other lawyers put him through a mock interview with Mueller, and he failed miserably, they went to Mueller and pleaded with him to not press the issue of a formal interview on the basis that their client was incapable of telling the truth, and that all Mueller would get would be evidence of perjury rather than the answers he was seeking. Thus, the now rumored take home written test.


Stupid AND a coward. So alpha.

EDIT - the actual Washington Post excerpt is even more damning if that can be believed:


Dowd then explained to Mueller and Quarles why he was trying to keep the president from testifying: “I’m not going to sit there and let him look like an idiot. And you publish that transcript, because everything leaks in Washington, and the guys overseas are going to say, ‘I told you he was an idiot. I told you he was a ####### dumbbell. What are we dealing with this idiot for?’ ”

“John, I understand,” Mueller replied, according to Woodward.


Donald Trump is so obviously stupid that he’s a national security threat. Hey Trumpholsters, why do you hate America?
   1628. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:37 AM (#5738796)
On Thursday, Dukakis delivered a message that would separate his campaign from Reagan's and from that of his election rival, Vice President George Bush. "Here in Mississippi," he said to the mostly white audience, "you know the importance of equal rights and civil rights. And especially today, I say to all Americans - not just those in Neshoba County, but all over - we have to work together."

So the problem isn't speaking in Neshoba County; it's just not being a left-winger there. Got it.

Or maybe the problem is that you read those words and immediately think "left-winger".
   1629. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:37 AM (#5738797)
Donald Trump is so obviously stupid that he’s a national security threat. Hey Trumpholsters, why do you hate America?

Butter emails!!1!
   1630. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:38 AM (#5738798)
Most potentially vulnerable Democrats are past their primaries, so they're OK for this election, but look for continued leftward drift in the party in the weeks ahead.


I will take a leftward drift in my party over the prisonward drift in the GOP. I would have said Naziward drift, but that ship sailed already.


Amen.

It's also noted that Capuano is a big Pelosi ally, 66 years old, and has been in Congress for 20 years.

Why, if I didn't know Clapper to be an honest, circumspect fellow who no ability to be anything other than objectively sincere - I might wonder about whether his long-stated concern about entrenched, elderly Democrats was honest.
   1631. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:40 AM (#5738799)

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Isn’t it a shame that someone can write an article or book, totally make up stories and form a picture of a person that is literally the exact opposite of the fact, and get away with it without retribution or cost. Don’t know why Washington politicians don’t change libel laws?
6:33 AM - Sep 5, 2018
   1632. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:40 AM (#5738800)
David, I'd still like to know what caused you to switch from a two time Clinton voter to what you are today. Over 41,000 comments and I can't remember that you've ever explained your Whittaker Chambers-style evolution. What's the Rosebud in your past?
   1633. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:43 AM (#5738802)
It's also noted that Capuano is a big Pelosi ally, 66 years old, and has been in Congress for 20 years.

It's also noted that Capuano immediately endorsed Pressley and said she'd be a "great" Congresswoman.
   1634. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:47 AM (#5738804)
David, I'd still like to know what caused you to switch from a two time Clinton voter to what you are today. Over 41,000 comments and I can't remember that you've ever explained your Whittaker Chambers-style evolution. What's the Rosebud in your past?


He started making money and didn't want to pay taxes.
   1635. Lassus Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:48 AM (#5738805)
There is no way Trump wrote that tweet.
   1636. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:49 AM (#5738807)
Zonk, #1630:
Why, if I didn't know Clapper to be an honest, circumspect fellow who no ability to be anything other than objectively sincere - I might wonder about whether his long-stated concern about entrenched, elderly Democrats was honest.


Your passive-aggressive bla bla won't upset Clapper. He's too happy that his endorsed pick, Jon Kyl, will get to spend his 77th and 78th birthdays in the U.S. Senate!
   1637. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:54 AM (#5738809)
There is no way Trump wrote that tweet.


What gave it away? I'm going with "retribution".
   1638. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:54 AM (#5738810)
Mike Capuano was a good congressman, and, before that, was a good mayor of Somerville. Somerville is similar to Cambridge. It's right next door. They may as well be the same small city. He's a good guy. Solidly progressive. So we've lost a member of the house who had seniority and would be in line to head either the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee or the Financial Services Committee. Now, we have a rookie rep in congress who will lead nothing. Change for the sake of change. I like Pressley, but MA loses with her win. A little pragmatism was in order yesterday.


Of course Capuano endorsed Pressley and said nice things about her. But he has to be pissed off. He didn't do anything that warranted his defeat.
   1639. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 09:19 AM (#5738825)
Mike Capuano was a good congressman, and, before that, was a good mayor of Somerville. Somerville is similar to Cambridge. It's right next door. They may as well be the same small city. He's a good guy. Solidly progressive. So we've lost a member of the house who had seniority and would be in line to head either the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee or the Financial Services Committee. Now, we have a rookie rep in congress who will lead nothing. Change for the sake of change. I like Pressley, but MA loses with her win. A little pragmatism was in order yesterday.


Of course Capuano endorsed Pressley and said nice things about her. But he has to be pissed off. He didn't do anything that warranted his defeat.


538 write-up of the Pressley win....

Which basically jibes with above - sort of peripherally knew about this race, but only because it was long on the radar... FWIW, doesn't really seem like the race was "Left" vs "Less Left" as much as it was "someone new" vs "someone not new". As the 538 article notes - Pressley herself said there wasn't going to be any difference on votes (which is an odd sort of way to primary a sitting congressman).

   1640. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 05, 2018 at 09:22 AM (#5738829)
Trump made the remarks in an Oval Office interview with the Daily Caller hours after his Supreme Court nominee, Brett M. Kavanaugh, was greeted by protests on the first day of his confirmation hearings on Capitol Hill.

“I don’t know why they don’t take care of a situation like that,” Trump said. “I think it’s embarrassing for the country to allow protesters. You don’t even know what side the protesters are on.”
   1641. DavidFoss Posted: September 05, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5738832)
New Thread I presume:

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand/discussion/otp_2018_september_4_candidate_for_governor_pitches_politics_at_jacksonvill/
   1642. DavidFoss Posted: September 05, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5738833)
LINK to new thread.
   1643. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: September 05, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5738834)
I think it’s embarrassing for the country to allow protesters.


I hope that one gets memed to death.
   1644. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5738838)
It's over baby. Move over to the new thread
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