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Monday, July 23, 2018

OTP 2018 July 23: How sports and American politics made each other

In January 1942, as the United States committed itself fully to World War II, President Franklin Roosevelt decided that baseball, then the national pastime, should sustain civilian morale during the lengthy struggle ahead. He implored its commissioner, Kenesaw Mountain Landis, to make sure the games went on, despite worldwide armed conflict. And so they did. Professional baseball players, Roosevelt argued, “are a definite recreational asset.”

Roosevelt did not extend that consideration to professional football players, whose sport did not register politically. As a result, the National Football League nearly shut its doors during World War II. So many players were called to serve that several franchises had to merge. In fact, the league didn’t take off until it closely associated itself with national politics. For the past half century, the intertwining of American football and politics has sustained both pastimes.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 23, 2018 at 08:42 AM | 1431 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: football, off topic, politics

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   101. . Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5714277)
And the Times used to cover the NYC teams, including hockey, as local beats. Did for many years.

From time to time, you'll see a top-grade column in its sports section now and it's still worth reading -- but it's a fey shell of its former self.
   102. zenbitz Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5714278)
Sequels are never as good as the original...


With the following exceptions:

Empire Strikes Back
Star Trek II
Texas Chainsaw Massacre II
Evil Dead II
Deadpool II

Probably a few others if I ruminate on it.
   103. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5714279)
Nah, he'd been frozen out by the Garden and wound up pretty much just making #### up. The Garden's mouthpiece is Marc Berman, the Post's Knick beat guy.

I mean, I like Isola and it sucks that the Daily News is falling apart, but he didn't have much more on the Knicks than "See, I told you Isiah would rise again!" He is pretty well tapped in to some guys, like Kyrie and to a degree LeBron.


Ah yea I got those two confused. Isola is the guy that used to have sources but now just makes #### up. That is totally something I've read 100 times on the Knicks' RealGM forum.

And the Times used to cover the NYC teams, including hockey, as local beats. Did for many years.


I believe sometime in 2010 they stopped offering the sports as a distinct section in the metro daily edition. I was shocked how thin their coverage was after that. I stopped buying the paper and pretty much stuck to the tabloids after that. Much cheaper and better reading for the slice of pizza after work anyways.
   104. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:20 PM (#5714280)
Nobody is more divisive than Clinton. It is simply not possible for any Democrat to run in 2020 with more polarizing numbers than Clinton . . .

Interesting take from those who spent all of 2016 denying that reality.
   105. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5714281)
Oddly enough, I don't think the OTP touched on Zuck's hot water last week over his rather silly distinction between whether a holocaust denier is 'honest' about his holocaust denial or not...
But a piece on the matter...

My answer is no, that's silly. The better question is whether it is more or less silly than the sort of pedestal the purveyors have created for themselves.

My opinion on mega-platforms - be it twitter, FB, or whatever - is that they really need to drop this quasi-"new plane" nonsense. On the one hand, the technorati have a real tendency to view their media and platforms as something more they than are. They like to trumpet accessibility, freedom, etc. These are concepts that I generally agree with - just on a more limited scale.

However, they'll simultaneously resist any external oversights - be they government-specific or just 'social consequence' sorts.

You can't have it both ways.
   106. DavidFoss Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5714282)
Sequels are never as good as the original...

Are there any two-term presidents where the second term was better? I'm drawing a blank.
   107. spycake Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:24 PM (#5714283)
Are there any two-term presidents where the second term was better? I'm drawing a blank.

Depends on your point of view. Nixon, for example... :)
   108. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5714286)
Sequels are never as good as the original...


With the following exceptions:

...
Star Trek II
...


When dealing in Star Trek, always go for the even numbers. Always.
   109. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5714293)
101

And the Times used to cover the NYC teams, including hockey, as local beats. Did for many years.


The Times had themselves some writers, man, especially after the demise of the Herald-Tribune.

Red Smith
Lipsyte
G. Vecsey
Berkow
Araton
Eskanazi
Joe Durso

Where have you gone, "Sports of the Times?"


   110. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5714294)
That reminds me of a slowfooted and dimwitted American Legion teammate who tried to steal second in the last of the 9th when we were 4 or 5 runs behind.

Didn't Babe Ruth do this? In the 7th game of the WS no less?


Yeah, as David Foss pointed out, in what have been the most boneheaded steal attempt in baseball history. But at least Ruth could say that he was trying to get into position to score the tying run. When my dimwitted and slowfooted friend tried his move, the potential tying run was sitting on the bench hoping to get up 3 or 4 batters later.

P. S. This same guy used to keep a diary of all his plate appearances in real time. Once after getting a single, he whipped out a note pad while he was on first to make an entry for his diary----and got picked off first while he was writing it all down. Dearest friend I ever had, but not the brightest bulb in the box.
   111. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5714298)
Are there any two-term presidents where the second term was better? I'm drawing a blank.


Tragically cut short, but I might say Lincoln was pretty clearly on his way there...

Madison maybe? His first term saw him allowing himself to be dragged into the War of 1812 by the hawks - the 2nd term was the "era of good feelings".

   112. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5714300)
Where have you gone, "Sports of the Times?"

Funny you mention that, because 90% of the time when I go to the Times Archives to look up a sports article, the only way I can navigate to that section is to click on the index tab and enter "Sports of the Times". Even if the Yankees or the Dodgers are featured in a headline, a search for those words draws a big blank. It's one of the greatest history resources imaginable, but it definitely needs some working on in its navigation.
   113. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5714307)
Are there any two-term presidents where the second term was better? I'm drawing a blank.

I'd say Reagan.
   114. dlf Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5714309)
Interesting take from those who spent all of 2016 denying that reality.


Consistency is the most overrated of all human virtues - Malcolm Gladwell

A fundamentalist is somebody who believes something unshakably and isn't going to change their minds - Richard Dawkins

I think if someone is writing continuously for 10 years and has not changed their mind about something, there's something wrong with them. They're not really thinking. - Andrew Sullivan

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject - Winston Churchill


I thought, entering 2016, that HRC was a better candidate than DJT; there are additional facts to be learned since then so my opinion changed. Not sure why we'd not want folks to rethink their views upon learning new information.
   115. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5714310)
Sean Davis is such a POS. The Federalist is basically a vanity project (check the SEC filings) of a wealthy GOP donor family and yet he has the audacity to complain about other projects on the left non stop on his twitter. Davis himself went straight from a cushy GOP staffing gig to the head of the Federalist and yet he complains of former Obama and Clinton officials now appearing as talking heads on CNN and elsewhere. Meanwhile he has absolutely nothing to say of the WH raiding Fox News employees every other week to fill staffing roles.
   116. McCoy Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5714314)
With the following exceptions:

Empire Strikes Back
Star Trek II
Texas Chainsaw Massacre II
Evil Dead II
Deadpool II

Probably a few others if I ruminate on it.


The exceptions that prove the rule.
   117. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5714315)
I thought, entering 2016, that HRC was a better candidate than DJT; there are additional facts to be learned since then so my opinion changed. Not sure why we'd not want folks to rethink their views upon learning new information.


She's still a better candidate than DJT.

Just based on the results of that November night, now 19 months ago that the Trumpkins still grasp with both hands, I would say that she's not better enough.

But whatever... roughly a year ago, re-analyzing Clinton's missteps overtook the Cubs signing of Edwin Jackson as my least favorite thing in the world to waste time on discussing, so that's all I'm going to say on the matter.
   118. McCoy Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5714319)
Tragically cut short, but I might say Lincoln was pretty clearly on his way there...

Too early to tell. Lincoln post war would have had a helluvalot do deal with it and as we saw in real life reconstruction was a bvtch.
   119. dlf Posted: July 23, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5714322)
She's still a better candidate than DJT.


Whether or not she would have been a better President is moot - but unfortunately, for all intensive purposes, not yet mute.

But whether she was a better candidate? That is like Sammy claiming that the '96 Braves were better than the Yankees that season - in the only way it matters, already conclusively proven incorrect. (And may Mark Wohlers and that stupid slider burn forever more in the same pit that gave us our candidates in '16.)
   120. BrianBrianson Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5714324)
When dealing in Star Trek, always go for the even numbers. Always.


The third reboot movie is by far the best.

Which may be damning with faint praise.
   121. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:04 PM (#5714328)
So here you go, Trumpkins... mark it down - might well be the first time the administration threatens to do something that I'll say that they probably should, albeit, something that ought to just be a statutory or regulatory change.

Why do former officials whose jobs required certain levels of security clearance maintain their clearance status once they're no longer in those roles? I'd extend it further to civilian contractors and even military personnel who leave their jobs/service.

I presume that they're obviously not getting daily briefings and the like, but sure... rather than targeted revocations - wholly grounded in "enemies of the state" standard Trump bullshit - it seems wholly logical to me once you are no longer in a job, role, or active service member who requires some level of security clearance, said clearance probably ought to sunset and become some manner of inactive.

I understand concepts like recalling to active service or certain niche instances -- like Trump's ongoing legal problems -- where roles outside of prior roles may require clearance, but it seems to me that you simply create a lane for someone whose prior role had X clearance to regain it in an expedited fashion.

Doesn't really make any logical sense that once cleared, your clearance remains until specifically revoked.

...with the proviso, of course, that I know next to nothing about the process so perhaps what I'm suggesting is already the case and per usual, the Trumpkins are just blowing their usual dumb smoke.
   122. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5714329)
The third reboot movie is by far the best.


No, just no. I will say no more here, but if anyone wants to take it over the culture thread I will explain myself there.
   123. McCoy Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5714330)
II was definite improvement over Star Trek but it was still a subpar movie and unfortunately it came out in the early 80's when they had horrible filmstock and lighting. A lot of people liked the whale one but I thought it was forgettable and would never watch it again. Thought at the time that VI was the best Star Trek movie, I don't know if it has aged well but I would guess probably not. The TNG films were absolute garbage though again some people seemed to have liked the time traveling VIII one. Star Trek reboot was a bit preposterous but entertaining in an empty calorie way. The Search for Spock reboot was an adventure movie and again entertaining in a forgettable empty calorie kind of way. The last one I completely blanked on and even after reading the synopsis for it I still recall virtually nothing about it.
   124. McCoy Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5714336)
I believe right now ex presidents get the daily briefing memos but does anyone want to doubt that ex president trump should not get those? I’m pretty sure they’re going to cut him off pretty quickly
   125. Howie Menckel Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5714338)
"for all intensive purposes,"

you BBTF pedants are losing your fastball
   126. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5714339)

Sean Davis is such a POS.
Yep. Only person who has ever blocked me on twitter, and I was my usual charming self. I simply pointed out politely that he was full of #### when talking about HPSCI's rules. (I don't remember details, but was claiming that there were certain limits on what HPSCI could do, and was making fun of someone else for not knowing the rules. And I said something along the lines of, "I've read the rules and can't find that anywhere. Either point to it, or stop accusing other people of being ignorant when you're making stuff up." He never did point to it.)
   127. dlf Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5714341)
Here, here. That poster should really rain it in. But really, I couldn't care less.
   128. BrianBrianson Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5714342)
A lot of people liked the whale one but I thought it was forgettable and would never watch it again.


No worries. I rewatched enough for both of us. And about three hundred other people.
   129. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:24 PM (#5714345)
@benjaminwittes:
I just texted @Comey asking whether he even has a security clearance to revoke.

“Nope,” he responded. There’s nothing for POTUS to revoke. Comey says he was “read out” when he left government as per normal practice. 1/2

He even recently declined a temporary clearance from the IG to read the classified annex to the IG’s recent report. He didn’t want to see any classified material lest the president accuse him of leaking it. 2/2
   130. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5714350)
Re: #121--
Part of the reason for maintaining some security clearances is so that former officials can be in a position to advise current officials. I assume the Trump administration would rather lick all the park benches and bus poles in Washington D.C. than ask an Obama/Bush/Clinton figure for their thoughts. But for functional administrations, the custom can be politically and strategically helpful.
   131. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5714364)
Part of the reason for maintaining some security clearances is so that former officials can be in a position to advise current officials. I assume the Trump administration would rather lick all the park benches and bus poles in Washington D.C. than ask an Obama/Bush/Clinton figure for their thoughts. But for functional administrations, the custom can be politically and strategically helpful.


Sure, that makes sense... but again - it seems like there would be better ways to handle it than blanket perpetuity... I.e., some select outgoing folks make it know that their sense of duty or whatever means they'd be interested in maintaining clearance in order to provide advice, incoming administration OKs the list, whatever.

Again - I'm speaking about a process I know next to nothing about (and let me emphasize that the Trumpistration's stupid "they said mean things about us!" is well, stupid).
   132. Spahn Insane Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5714368)
Here, here. That poster should really rain it in. But really, I couldn't care less.

I'd hold out hope for his eventually getting untracked, but he's a bonified pre-Madonna.
   133. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 23, 2018 at 04:56 PM (#5714373)
The internet thinks that the way to continue this joke of being deliberately wrong is to type the phrase "never mind" as two words.
   134. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: July 23, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5714404)
So, Ray hasn't addressed his "fellate Iran" comment yet. Would you please remind the dumb Omega Monkey that he has some explaining to do regarding his homophobic remark? Thanks.
   135. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 23, 2018 at 05:54 PM (#5714412)
No doubt he'd be more comfortable if you put it to him in the form of a leading hypothetical.
   136. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: July 23, 2018 at 06:01 PM (#5714415)
So, Ray hasn't addressed his "fellate Iran" comment yet. Would you please remind the dumb Omega Monkey that he has some explaining to do regarding his homophobic remark? Thanks.
While we're at it, maybe SBB will finally explain this remark, too (see #970), specifically what he meant by "embrace" and "unhelpful".
[Obama] isn't a Muslim, to be sure -- but his experiences made him embrace Islam to an unhelpful degree.
Shouldn't be that hard to either stand by what you've written, or at least attempt to explain how it's not bigoted. Unless, of course, it is. Actual liberals understand this.
   137. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5714424)
You can tell who the real cockholsters are when they’re upset about mean words and not about their fat emperor’s kiddie gulags..

Also Mike Huckabee’s big-boned daughter looks like Bad Kuchi Kopi , go cry to your mom.
   138. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 23, 2018 at 06:22 PM (#5714429)
You can tell who the real cockholsters are when they’re upset about mean words and not about their fat emperor’s kiddie gulags..


ugh. when you empower the type of people (mostly men really) that are drawn into ICE (or for that much of law enforcement) beyond a reasonable mission (like the war on drugs or now this war on migrants) you get this type of disgusting behavior. It would do this country a lot of good to remember that the function of ICE and LEOs isn't to create fear and misery but to keep us safe. But when you have a "law and order" POTUS, this sort of cruel, needless behavior should be expected.
   139. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 06:23 PM (#5714431)
Empire Strikes Back
Star Trek II
Texas Chainsaw Massacre II
Evil Dead II
Deadpool II


House Party 2. The Pajama Jammie Jam!
   140. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: July 23, 2018 at 06:28 PM (#5714437)
So, Ray hasn't addressed his "fellate Iran" comment yet. Would you please remind the dumb Omega Monkey that he has some explaining to do regarding his homophobic remark? Thanks.


Only losers post on here during the day.

Check back after 2 a.m.
   141. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 23, 2018 at 06:47 PM (#5714443)
In this OTP thread, SBB used the act of fellatio to insultingly characterize what he deemed to be David Nieporent’s discreditable and dutiful subservience to power. Twice. Should be fun to hear why SBB’s blow job metaphor was entirely different:
193. -- Posted: May 01, 2017 at 01:44 PM (#5445830)

You have a strange emotional need to rhetorically fellate organized power. Maybe you should get a therapy dog for that.

Nor are you defining "stealing" correctly. Avoiding a fee an airline wants to hit you with, that they never charge you in the first place, isn't "stealing." Because you rhetorically fellate organized power, you've somehow convinced yourself that a big company actually owns every single fee it merely wants to charge people, even when it doesn't actually charge someone the fee.
   142. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 23, 2018 at 06:53 PM (#5714444)
Check back after 2 a.m.


I for one look forward to the nightly RayCast.
   143. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 23, 2018 at 07:05 PM (#5714450)
So, there are a LOT of references on BBTF to fellatio... and virtually all of them - if not actually all of them - involves two males. I mean, a lot - especially if you a do a little search lemmatization.

What's only mildly surprising is that it took me until page 2 of the results to get the first OTP thread hit.

It appears that perhaps TDS may be a mutation of Joe Buck Derangement Syndrome, Michael Kay Derangement Syndrome, Bud Selig Derangement Syndrome, Billy Martin Derangement Syndrome, Hawk Harrelson Derangement Syndrome, Rob Neyer Derangement Syndrome, Derek Jeter Derangement Syndrome, etc.
   144. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 07:17 PM (#5714453)
Bud Selig Derangement Syndrome


YOU ARE THE DERANGED ONES!
   145. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: July 23, 2018 at 07:36 PM (#5714462)
Sure, that makes sense... but again - it seems like there would be better ways to handle it than blanket perpetuity... I.e., some select outgoing folks make it know that their sense of duty or whatever means they'd be interested in maintaining clearance in order to provide advice, incoming administration OKs the list, whatever.



A fairly large percentage of people with clearances (military, government, civilian) who leave their current jobs will within a few months get another job which requires a security clearance. The clearance process is a formal process which is both expensive to conduct, and slow. Also their is a large backlog of clearance request beings processed. The fewer resources needed for processing clearance requests for people changing jobs means that the they can tackle the backlog faster.

Also, it is unnecessary to revoke someone's clearance to keep them from accessing classified information. Accessing classified information requires both a high enough clearance and an administrative determination that they have a need-to-know for the information. So when someone leaves a job, their need-to-know is taken away and this has the same effect in regard to accessing classified information as revoking the clearance. Since this is an administrative decision, when they start a new job (or join a high-level government advisory board or the next 9-11 commission or whatever) it can be restored at a moments notice (unlike a revoked clearance which has to go through the complete clearance process). In fact, the language used in the Comey quote above ("read out") normally refers to the administrative decision to take away specific need-to-know.

Take myself as an example. When I retired, all my need-to-know accesses were revoked, but not my clearance. I still had about 2 years before my mandatory reinvestigation was required. I applied for and was offered a consulting job at my old agency about 5 months later. When they made the offer, they said that I could start the following Monday instead of 9-10 months later that having to get a new clearance would need.
   146. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 23, 2018 at 07:41 PM (#5714463)
It appears that perhaps TDS may be a mutation of Joe Buck Derangement Syndrome, Michael Kay Derangement Syndrome, Bud Selig Derangement Syndrome, Billy Martin Derangement Syndrome, Hawk Harrelson Derangement Syndrome, Rob Neyer Derangement Syndrome, Derek Jeter Derangement Syndrome, etc.


During the ALS "ice bucket challenge" the frail, 80 something Hawk was so shaken up by the cold water that he had to leave the booth for an inning. It was kinda a sad moment. Hawk is retiring this year, thankfully. He overstayed his welcome by about half a decade and at points in '14,15,16 before he cut back and handed over the reigns to Benetti it appeared the Sox were going to let him have a Ron Santo like ending in the booth. Thankfully they finally moved on.
   147. perros Posted: July 23, 2018 at 08:02 PM (#5714471)
@Comey


According to the IG report, Comey's announcement of more Clinton emails on Anthony Weiner's computer came so late in the race because the same investigative team was busy with the Trump Russia case and those emails probably didn't matter anyway. Comey also claimed he had no idea Weiner and Abedin were married up until his announcement.

Also, Comey didn't sign on to the pre-election report claiming Russian attacks on the DNC because it was common knowledge Russia was helping Trump.

But keep lionizing that dolt.
   148. BrianBrianson Posted: July 23, 2018 at 08:36 PM (#5714492)
So, there are a LOT of references on BBTF to fellatio... and virtually all of them - if not actually all of them - involves two males.


In fairness, girls are widely believed to have cooties.
   149. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 23, 2018 at 08:42 PM (#5714496)
According to the IG report, Comey's announcement of more Clinton emails on Anthony Weiner's computer came so late in the race because the same investigative team was busy with the Trump Russia case and those emails probably didn't matter anyway. Comey also claimed he had no idea Weiner and Abedin were married up until his announcement.


Comey is a ####### idiot who broke with long standing FBI protocol to cover his ass in case Hillary won. That he has become a villain, not a hero, of the Trumpistas is surely not lost on him. He has to live with that cruel irony the rest of his ####### life so that's his just reward.

   150. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: July 23, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5714559)
But keep lionizing that dolt.

Who here is lionizing Comey?
   151. Swoboda is freedom Posted: July 23, 2018 at 09:48 PM (#5714573)
Empire Strikes Back
Star Trek II
Texas Chainsaw Massacre II
Evil Dead II
Deadpool II


Godfather II
Terminator II
The Dark Knight
Road Warrior (Mad Max II)
Breakin II Electric Boogaloo.
   152. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 09:55 PM (#5714588)
Yeah, Trump's critics are the ones who are deranged. No wonder JE's been sticking to the friendly confines of Twitter lately.


I wonder. Do you think he's afraid of you?

(Also: Do you know how Twitter works, Andy? Nobody would describe it as "the friendly confines.")
   153. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5714590)
Insiders say the NY Daily News is about to announce a 50 percent reduction in newsroom staffing.

update:
"We are reducing today the size of the editorial team by approximately 50 percent and re-focusing much of our talent on breaking news – especially in areas of crime, civil justice and public responsibility"


A few months ago they went to a pay model after X articles per month. Prior to that I would check in on them every day but I refuse to pay a penny for their content. You can get the same stories from the NY Post. And the Daily News (as the Post) has approximately zero of their own opinion writers worth reading -- including their comical editorial page. Clearly the move to a pay model was out of desperation, but alas it was not a cure for what ailed them.
   154. Howie Menckel Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:01 PM (#5714595)

(I can't vouch for the exact details, but it's impressively passionate, from Deadspin)

hard take on NYDN debacle
"This past spring, Michael Ferro resigned as chairman of publicly traded media-looting hell-company Tronc, Inc., just ahead of the publication of sexual harassment allegations against him. As a parting gift, Tronc paid him $15 million, voluntarily bundling up the total value of a three-year consulting contract into one lump payment expensed against the company’s earnings and putting itself $14.8 million in the red for the first quarter. Today, Tronc gutted the New York Daily News, laying off at least half of its editorial staff to cut costs. In a society not crippled and driven completely insane by capitalism, ############# would go to prison for this.

When people talk pejoratively about “class warfare,” they almost never are referring to things like the above sequence of events. But what happened to the Daily News at the hands of Tronc is class ####### warfare, a massive redistribution of wealth from the paper’s working people to a disgusting handsy shitbag multimillionaire, in a decision made far above those working people’s heads by a small handful of executive- and investor-class vampires."
   155. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:02 PM (#5714596)
“What did Howie say?”

“I dunno, something about being a communist.”
   156. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:06 PM (#5714600)
Yeah, Trump's critics are the ones who are deranged. No wonder JE's been sticking to the friendly confines of Twitter lately.

I wonder. Do you think he's afraid of you?


Probably less afraid than you are of owning up to your own "fellate Iran" comment, but his absence since Helsinki is still kind of amusing.
   157. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:09 PM (#5714604)

“What did Howie say?”

“I dunno, something about being a communist.”

The Leaden-Eyed

Let not young souls be smothered out before
They do quaint deeds and fully flaunt their pride.
It is the world’s one crime its babes grow dull,
Its poor are ox-like, limp and leaden-eyed.
Not that they starve, but starve so dreamlessly, 5
Not that they sow, but that they seldom reap,
Not that they serve, but have no gods to serve,
Not that they die, but that they die like sheep.
- Vachel Lindsay
   158. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:09 PM (#5714605)

Nutty.

Judge throws out de Blasio’s climate change lawsuit against oil companies

A lawsuit targeting five of the world’s biggest oil companies over climate change that Mayor Bill de Blasio announced with much fanfare in January was tossed Thursday by a Manhattan judge.

The suit charged BP, Chevron ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips and Royal Dutch Shell with harming the city by contributing to global warming and damaging climate events — including Superstorm Sandy — through the emission of greenhouse gases.

Manhattan Federal Court Judge John Keenan rejected the claim, saying international policy and political implications put the issue outside the court’s jurisdiction.

“Climate change is a fact of life, as is not contested by Defendants. But the serious problems caused thereby are not for the judiciary to ameliorate,” he wrote. “Global warming and solutions there to must be addressed by the two other branches of government.”


Imagine a government trying to punish its citizens for selling a legal product. And these same people -- and their supporters -- call *Trump* authoritarian?

Granted it worked with the ridiculous tobacco lawsuits, and we see shades of those themes in the complaint. Quoting (with many typos as it's converted from PDF to Word):

VI. Defendants Have Produced Massive Quantities of Fossil Fuels- and Have Continued
to Do So Even as Climate Change Has Become Gravely Dangerous ................................... 31

V11. Defendants Had Full Knowledge that Fossil Fuels Would Cause Catastrophic Harm ......... 33

VIII. Despite Their Early Knowledge that Climate Change Posed Grave Threats, Defendants Promoted Fossil Fuels tor Pervasive Use, While Denying or
Downplaying 'l'hese 'l'hreats ................................................................................................ 41

A. Defendants engaged in an overt public relations campaign intended to cast doubt
on climate science and promote their products.............................................................. 41

B. Defendants directly promoted tossil fuels...................................................................... 48

...

4. Defendants knew decades ago that the tossil fuel products they produce and sell were altering the atmosphere and would cause a dire global warming problem. They acted on this knowledge to protect their own infrastructure and assets, and yet they told the public a very ditlerent story. According to recently disclosed documents, by the late 1970s or early 1YOs, it not earlier, Defendants knew that averting dangerous climate change required reducing the use of their tossil fuel products. At that time, scientists working either directly tor Defendants or advising Defendants through an industry-wide consulting arrangement warned Defendants in stark terms that tossil fuel use risked "catastrophic" harm from global warming over the coming decades. The oil and gas industry even tormed a "C02 and Climate Task Force" in the late lY70s-a group that included representatives from each of the Detendants. At a 190 meeting, this Task Force received a scientific warning that global warming would cause catastrophic harms, tound that reductions in tossil fuel usage would result in the "immediate problem being considerably eased," questioned the long-term "future of fossil fuel use," and discussed internally "the technical implications or energy source changeover."

5. However, disregarding the findings of their own internal scientists and scientific consultants, Detendants re-committed themselves to tossil fuel exploration, production, marketing, and sales over the ensuing decades. The significant majority of emissions resulting from tossil fuels produced and marketed by Detendants occurred atter Detendants became aware of the consequences of climate change. The majority of emissions resulting from tossil fuels produced and marketed by the tossil fuel industry have occurred since lY' by which time the Defendants knew that their fossil fuel products were causing a buildup of GHG pollution in the atmosphere that would cause dangerous global warming.

6. But in an etlort to protect their market, Defendants orchestrated a campaign of deception and denial regarding climate change. Detendants sponsored publicity campaigns using front groups and paid "scientific" mouthpieces-including some of the same scientists that the tobacco industry had used to downplay the risks or cigarettes-to discredit the mainstream scientific consensus on global warming and downplay the risks of climate change. Defendants also employed large-scale, sophisticated advertising campaigns to promote pervasive tossil fuel use, conducted either directly or through surrogates like their main U.S. trade association, the American Petroleum Institute ("API"), and to portray fossil fuels as environmentally responsible-a campaign that continues to this day.

7. Defendants are not only quantitatively ditlerent from other contributors to climate change given their massive and dangerous levels of tossil fuel production over many years-they are also qualitatively ditlerent from other contributors to climate change because of their in­ house scientitic resources, early knowledge of climate change impacts, commercial promotions oftossil fuels as beneticial despite their knowledge to the contrary, etlorts to protect their fossil fuel market by downplaying the risks of climate change, and leadership roles in the A.Pl and other organizations that undertook a communications strategy tor the fossil fuel industry. In this coordinated ettort to discredit the science, which began in earnest during the lYYOs and has continued in a subtler torm even in recent years, Defendants and their agents and advocates have made the alleged "uncertainty'' of climate science their constantly-repeated mantra. The purpose of this campaign of deception and denial was to increase sales and protect market share. It succeeded, and Detendants have protlted enormously as a result.

8. Meanwhile, Defendants relied upon their knowledge about climate change science to protect their own business assets from expected rising seas and melting permafrost by incorporating climate change science into their engineering standards tor construction of their pipelines, ottshore oil plattorms, and other projects.
   159. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5714606)
“What did Howie say?”

“I dunno, something about being a communist.”


Hard to tell who's saying what when he links to a non-working page and then just inserts random quotation marks in a pair of paragraphs instead of using the quote tab.
   160. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5714607)
But, ya know. My charitable read on it is the older libs here (and elsewhere) know this line of attack is homophobic and misogynist, but they will excuse anything so long as they believe it hurts Trump.


Of course.
   161. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:14 PM (#5714610)
From CNN:

One week on from the Putin summit, no one can stop talking about it. And Trump's defiance and failure to publicly rebuke the Russian leader in Finland over election interference is spurring unusual criticism from Republicans.

"The evidence is overwhelming," South Carolina Rep. Trey Gowdy said on "Fox News Sunday."

"It can be proven beyond any evidentiary burden that Russia is not our friend and they tried to attack us in 2016," Gowdy said. "So the President either needs to rely on the people that he has chosen to advise him, or those advisers need to reevaluate whether or not they can serve in this administration. But the disconnect cannot continue. The evidence is overwhelming, and the President needs to say that and act like it."

Yup, nothing to see here ... move along!


We can't listen to Trey Gowdy. Andy told us last week that Gowdy is even more unhinged than previously thought.

So why are you quoting Gowdy for truth?
   162. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:19 PM (#5714612)
Nobody is more divisive than Clinton. It is simply not possible for any Democrat to run in 2020 with more polarizing numbers than Clinton for the simple reason that no human being exists on the planet - at least, eligible to run for US President - who had a sustained 25 year onslaught of opposition, memes, histrionics, and rumor. The Clinton II does not exist.


But she's such a great judge of character!!!! And has such morals!!!!

PICTURED: Hillary and Bill's intimate dinner with Harvey Weinstein weeks after her election loss - showing just how close the Clintons were to the 'serial rapist' movie mogul


I do agree it shows an inordinate amount of skill and... something... to be so Concerned about issues facing women even while being married to one predator and dining with another one.

Of course, her supporters were not deterred.
   163. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:19 PM (#5714613)
But, ya know. My charitable read on it is the older libs here (and elsewhere) know this line of attack is homophobic and misogynist, but they will excuse anything so long as they believe it hurts Trump.

Of course.

Hmmmm, what's the charitable read on this?
5313. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 26, 2015 at 01:27 PM (#5006872)

You're right; instead, the left just seems not to care about it, as they fellate Iran and assail America's bakers.

   164. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5714615)
I do agree it shows an inordinate amount of skill and... something... to be so Concerned about issues facing women even while being married to one predator and dining with another one.


Don’t forget she shared a stage with yet a third on multiple occasions in 2016.
   165. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5714619)
(I can't vouch for the exact details, but it's impressively passionate, from Deadspin)


The details - setting aside the conclusions - are pretty accurate. Ferro was full Weinstein and it cost Tronc a pretty penny. This is really not in dispute, to say nothing of potential liability beyond just buying out Ferro.

At the same time, Tronc has developed a reputation as a strip-and-flip operation.

This is not unusual - when I started at my company, our revenue was 90% print-based. We (legal/academic/professional publishing) don't have nearly the reliance on ad revenue as straight-up newspapers (indeed - in most areas, advertising revenue is not an option by law).

We went through a succession of executives whose specialty was trimming costs... and in some cases, prepping assets for re-sale... Some of the trimming - in hindsight, I'd dare say even most of it - was the wise move. Publishing print and electronic in a digital world most certainly does mean that there are and should be elements that should sunset.

Still, none of our executives cost the company a big single year hit equal to 20% its annual OI. Had that been the case? Well - today, we've recently hit the milestone of the majority of our revenue coming from digital sources. 10 years ago - if the company had needed to buy out a naughty executive/board member? Who knows. Margins were thin.
   166. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:51 PM (#5714634)
That reminds me of a slowfooted and dimwitted American Legion teammate who tried to steal second in the last of the 9th when we were 4 or 5 runs behind.


I still play slow-pitch softball, and I haven't seen a dumb play like that in .... hours. Happens often, too often. No stealing, of course, just overaggressive baserunning when we have to get another couple guys on base. Ended a game today.
   167. zenbitz Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:59 PM (#5714644)
Classic Ray in @162. Clinton was 1/8th the monster Trump is!!!
   168. Greg K Posted: July 23, 2018 at 10:59 PM (#5714645)
I still play slow-pitch softball, and I haven't seen a dumb play like that in .... hours. Happens often, too often. No stealing, of course, just overaggressive baserunning when we have to get another couple guys on base. Ended a game today.

I over heard the following last week, in the final inning of a blow out: "we need a lot of runs so I figured I'd try to score from first on that single".
   169. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 23, 2018 at 11:02 PM (#5714646)
But she's such a great judge of character!!!! And has such morals!!!!


Oooo!

Good comeback...

How about that fellatio comment?

You ready to address your own homophobia yet?

   170. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 23, 2018 at 11:22 PM (#5714653)
That reminds me of a slowfooted and dimwitted American Legion teammate who tried to steal second in the last of the 9th when we were 4 or 5 runs behind.

I still play slow-pitch softball, and I haven't seen a dumb play like that in .... hours. Happens often, too often. No stealing, of course, just overaggressive baserunning when we have to get another couple guys on base. Ended a game today


Okay, now top what happened to my friend when he got picked off first while entering his hit into his baseball diary. You have to realize I'm protecting a sacred memory.
   171. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 23, 2018 at 11:26 PM (#5714654)
Oooo!

Good comeback...

How about that fellatio comment?

You ready to address your own homophobia yet?


This is beyond comedy. It's like trying to get Trump to release his tax returns.
   172. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 23, 2018 at 11:51 PM (#5714660)
Ray's been spouting this same moronically false "if it's mean, then it's not funny, or even a joke" thesis


That doesn't seem to be his thesis in the least.

It's certainly not mine; mean things can be very funny.

Mine is that it (1) is homophobic; and (2) isn't funny.


Indeed, it is not and has not been my thesis in the least. My thesis is and has been that -- at least, speaking of the usage of "cockholster" here -- it can't be a joke because there's no attempt at humor.

   173. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:03 AM (#5714662)
She's still a better candidate than DJT.


From your words to her brain.

As I've said, I'll believe she won't run again when I see it.
   174. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:10 AM (#5714664)
@benjaminwittes:
I just texted @Comey asking whether he even has a security clearance to revoke.

“Nope,” he responded. There’s nothing for POTUS to revoke. Comey says he was “read out” when he left government as per normal practice. 1/2

He even recently declined a temporary clearance from the IG to read the classified annex to the IG’s recent report. He didn’t want to see any classified material lest the president accuse him of leaking it. 2/2


This is hilarious. And presented as if it's not.

Yes, yes, why would anyone ever wonder whether Comey would leak classified material? How so very very unfair to actually think that someone who had leaked classified material in the past would do so again in the future.

Again: the above tweet -- and post -- are presented without the slightest whiff of ridiculousness. What TDS?
   175. greenback slays lewks Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:16 AM (#5714666)
2-3 years ago Gowdy was a rising GOP star (thanks Hillary) with probable ambitions for a senate challenge or gubernatorial, and an eventual run for POTUS. Now he's "retiring" from politics to get back into law and family full time.

Doesn't really make much sense imo. I think he's either seen the writing on the wall for the GOP in the era of Trump and wants no part of it, or he himself is wrapped up in this Russian business.

I'll post a link to this interview with Vice again. Gowdy is bright enough and slick enough to spin his departure to his benefit, so you take this kind of confession with a grain of salt. But it's a striking contrast to Paul Ryan's (show me the money!) approach.
   176. Chicago Joe Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:20 AM (#5714668)
You could just say, “that was wrong”.
   177. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:09 AM (#5714672)
Ray, #172:
Ray's been spouting this same moronically false "if it's mean, then it's not funny, or even a joke" thesis for well over a year now

Indeed, it is not and has not been my thesis in the least. My thesis is and has been that -- at least, speaking of the usage of "cockholster" here -- it can't be a joke because there's no attempt at humor.


Yeah, that's bullshit, Ray.

(a) You're stupidly, stubbornly wrong. "Putin's cockholster" is a line that got a laugh as part of a comedy segment with a comedic premise performed by a comedian and written by comedy writers on a comedy show. It's beyond rational argument that an attempt at humor was made. And for undemanding members of the audience, achieved.

(b) Is not and has not been your thesis, oh no, not in the least:
1333. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 11, 2017 at 11:40 PM (#5453977)
The "humor" -- I use the term loosely; actually I use the term incorrectly as there is none -- derives entirely from the speaker thinking that calling someone a homosexual is a slur with therefore the intent being to hurt the target by "smearing" him as being gay.

It's mean-spirited and thus is not actually a joke. It's an attack. With homosexuality being the weapon of choice.

Let's call this what it is and call the speakers and enablers out for what they are. These are homophobic attacks, and it's indeed telling of the speakers and enablers that this is the weapon of choice. And those who laugh at these "jokes" or condone them are complicit and are actually pretty contemptible. But nothing to see here I guess since Trump and his supporters are the targets.

I would say that the speakers and enablers see gay people as merely collateral damage in all of this -- but that's not actually correct, since, again, the speakers and enablers actually see homosexuality as a slur.

That was your big mouth typing that, Ray.

But was it a mouth big enough, and complicit enough, and contemptible enough to fellate Iran?
   178. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:58 AM (#5714675)
Today's polling on voter attitudes & emotions about the midterm election seems to confirm what one could surmise just from reading BBTF-OTP. Democrats lead in such descriptions as Worried (61%-37%), Frustrated (58%-38%), Angry (49%-28%), Helpless (40%-25%), Depressed (36%-16%), Confused (33%-25%), and Bored (20%-19%); while Republicans lead in the categories Interested (75%-70%), Hopeful (74%-58%), Excited (52%-45%), Confident (61%-43%), Proud (56%-35%), and Happy (52%-33%). The parties are tied for Indifferent (22%), not that anyone cares.

Negative emotions can motivate voters, so that massive miserabilty lead might actually be "good" news for Democrats. On the other hand, if they fall short, they're going to feel even worse.
   179. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: July 24, 2018 at 06:36 AM (#5714678)
s class ####### warfare


Anyone recall Howie ever complaining about class warfare before? Me neither. In a typically Republican way (if not consistent with Republican values), Howie complains about something that supposedly affects his field of employment.

SAD!
   180. . Posted: July 24, 2018 at 07:04 AM (#5714681)
But, ya know. My charitable read on it is the older libs here (and elsewhere) know this line of attack is homophobic and misogynist, but they will excuse anything so long as they believe it hurts Trump.


By any means necessary.
   181. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 07:08 AM (#5714682)
WSJ gets TDS, posts Fake News

Hackers working for Russia claimed “hundreds of victims” last year in a giant and long-running campaign that put them inside the control rooms of U.S. electric utilities where they could have caused blackouts, federal officials said. They said the campaign likely is continuing.


Ridiculous, Russia is our strong ally on cybersecurity. Notice those TDS-sufferers at the Wall St Journal aren’t even considering the possibility it’s a 400lb man in his basement? Maybe two 400lb men in two basements? Or a single 800lb man?
   182. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 08:00 AM (#5714690)
Gonfalon, #177, you’ve completely lost it. The post from May of mine that you quote •supports• my thesis completely, that this — the usage of “clock holster” on this board — is not an attempt at humor. You even bolded the portion that drives that point home.
   183. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 08:16 AM (#5714698)
Gonfalon, #177, you’ve completely lost it. The post from May of mine that you quote •supports• my thesis completely, that this — the usage of “clock holster” on this board — is not an attempt at humor. You even bolded the portion that drives that point home.


What about this:

”You're right; instead, the left just seems not to care about it, as they fellate Iran and assail America's bakers.”


Was that an attempt at humor?
   184. BDC Posted: July 24, 2018 at 08:25 AM (#5714700)
the older libs here (and elsewhere) know this line of attack is homophobic and misogynist, but they will excuse anything so long as they believe it hurts Trump

There's probably something to that. OTOH I think that there's a certain kind of satire that isn't homophobic at all. Taunting someone as gay has always been homophobic when the speaker (and sometimes the target) think that being gay is despicable. But what if the target thinks being gay is despicable, and the speaker doesn't? Particularly if the target is a homophobe or a hyper-hetero type. I'm thinking of the way that the (other) gay characters in Tony Kushner's Angels in America taunt Roy Cohn, for instance. Which would apply to Putin in particular, if perhaps less to Trump, who seems less uptight personally and in terms of policy. Just a thought. As zenbitz notes, I may be rationalizing. I don't think I go in for a lot of homophobic banter myself, anyway, though doubtless somebody will Google up six or eight examples before breakfast :)
   185. BDC Posted: July 24, 2018 at 08:33 AM (#5714702)
There's also a kind of homophobia-lite involved in the use of "gay" just to mean silly or stupid – or perhaps "naff," a useful word in Britain that we lack in the US. This sense (which wasn't around much when I was growing up 50 years ago) is hardly even sexualized, but it can be hurtful ("retarded" is an analogue).

Though even that sense has its uses. A story relayed from when my son was in basic training: The recruits were supposed to say "Freedom" all the time to each other as a password or greeting of sorts. Because they were the Freedom Company, or some such corny thing.

All the drill sergeants insisted on "Freedom" except one, who was adamantly against it. Never say "Freedom" around me, he told them. "Why?" they asked. "Because it's gay," said the sergeant.

Well, it being the 21st century, the recruits asked permission to speak freely and all that. "Sergeant," somebody asked, "we have been trained that homophobia is inappropriate in the modern army. Why do you continue to use the term 'gay' in this manner?"

"You're right, I shouldn't have said 'gay'."

"So we should say 'Freedom' now?"

"No."

"Why not?"

"Because it sounds gay."

   186. DavidFoss Posted: July 24, 2018 at 08:37 AM (#5714704)
We must stand up to misogyny and... vote for Trump?

Almost all political cartoons are using different jokes. I'm seeing a lot more stuff like this.
   187. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 08:48 AM (#5714706)
   188. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 08:49 AM (#5714707)
I'm seeing a lot more stuff like this.


Oh, because gay people love cats huh? I bet you think you’re so progressive too.
   189. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 09:01 AM (#5714709)
It has been a very long time since it was common or somewhat normal to mock a President based on sexuality. Or I should say to this extent. So why it it happening? I think BDC is on the right track. Putin and Trump both are trying to project hyper masculine imaging. That they are the strong man in the room and that all others are subservient. I think a natural offshoot of someone projecting that is that the opposition is going to belittle that and the easiest route is to project that the man's man is in fact a sissy or worse. As I said it is the easiest route to go and the simplest message to get across. There are better ways to go about it and that don't dirty yourself but in politics you tend to always get mud on yourself.
   190. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5714710)
Donald Trump is pretty unequivocally a sissy.
   191. dlf Posted: July 24, 2018 at 09:11 AM (#5714713)
In Georgia, we are having a run-off today for a number of positions.

On the R side, the two challengers for Governor are Cagle, the sitting Lt.Gov. who made news a few months ago for working to strip Delta of certain gas tax credits following the airline's revocation of group purchasing discounts for the NRA vs. Kemp, the guy who decided that pointing a gun at his daughter's beau in a campaign commercial was a good idea. The former has the endorsement of sitting Governor Nathan Deal (who is term limited out and is a pretty bog-standard business oriented GOPer) while the latter just got an endorsement via Twitter from our twitterer-in-chief.

Running the risk of actually going on topic and discussing baseball, in the R run-off for Lt.Gov, one of the candidates is a former professional pitcher. Geoff Duncan was a 69th (that's nice) round draft pick and reached AAA hurling for the Marlins. Perhaps Lassus cheered him on while he toiled for the Utica Blue Sox.
   192. DavidFoss Posted: July 24, 2018 at 09:16 AM (#5714715)
Putin and Trump both are trying to project hyper masculine imaging. That they are the strong man in the room and that all others are subservient.

Maybe the 'alpha-dog' metaphor is more acceptable to the newfound political correctness on the right?

On the other hand, conservative media has been complaining about 'beta males' in the past few years.

It's all greek to me.
   193. BrianBrianson Posted: July 24, 2018 at 09:17 AM (#5714716)
It has been a very long time since it was common or somewhat normal to mock a President based on sexuality.


Twenty years isn't really all that long in terms of presidents. It was only three presidents ago.
   194. Spahn Insane Posted: July 24, 2018 at 09:18 AM (#5714717)
This is beyond comedy. It's like trying to get Trump to release his tax returns.

Ray's a busy guy; he can't be expected to answer every OTP post just to please you. That the posts pointing out, with citations and references, that he's an insincere hypocrite on the issue are about the only ones he hasn't replied to in the last several pages is, I'm certain, pure coincidence.

As the cool kids might say, "Concession accepted."
   195. Lassus Posted: July 24, 2018 at 09:28 AM (#5714725)
   196. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 09:50 AM (#5714738)
On the R side, the two challengers for Governor are Cagle, the sitting Lt.Gov. who made news a few months ago for working to strip Delta of certain gas tax credits following the airline's revocation of group purchasing discounts for the NRA vs. Kemp, the guy who decided that pointing a gun at his daughter's beau in a campaign commercial was a good idea. The former has the endorsement of sitting Governor Nathan Deal (who is term limited out and is a pretty bog-standard business oriented GOPer) while the latter just got an endorsement via Twitter from our twitterer-in-chief.


I'm wondering what your opinion is on the fall race - i.e., whether Abrams actually has a chance.

Polling on the fall race shows either Kemp or Cagle leading only within the MOE (2-3 points), but I suspect that's more a natural artifact of a still ongoing GOP primary and imagine either picks up a good chunk of support once the primary dust settles.

Strictly from the partisanship afar perspective - it feels like Kemp is the one for a Democrat hoping (perhaps quixotically) for an upset to root for... at least, it seems fairly clear Cagle will pivot while I'm not sure Kemp can or even wants to. Or - would it be a better bet for Cagle and his pivot slackening Trumpkin enthusiasm and just relying on the environment and Abrams to juice blue votes?

   197. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 24, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5714743)
This is beyond comedy. It's like trying to get Trump to release his tax returns.

Ray's a busy guy; he can't be expected to answer every OTP post just to please you. That the posts pointing out, with citations and references, that he's an insincere hypocrite on the issue are about the only ones he hasn't replied to in the last several pages is, I'm certain, pure coincidence.

As the cool kids might say, "Concession accepted."


Ray also must think that nobody else is noticing what a complete buffoon he's become by pretending that he never wrote what he did. Maybe he thinks that quote of his is just Fake News.
   198. dlf Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:00 AM (#5714747)
I'm wondering what your opinion is on the fall race - i.e., whether Abrams actually has a chance.


Abrams chance hinges a little on her (she needs a big AA turnout) but mostly on DJT continuing to roil independents, the rightward tilting segment of which may stay home. But
I don't have a feeling for her strengths and weaknesses at all. Just didn't really follow the D primary and she's been pretty quiet, letting the two remaining R's beat up on each other.

On the R side, I think that it is a choice between symbolism and substance. Cagle, whatever one may think of his views, is a competent politician who has spent a lot of time building a base of insiders in the traditional fashion and can get legislation through. Kemp is trying to be Bubba the Histrionic Outsider, but, in my opinion, lacks the actual ability to accomplish his objectives unless those objectives are just to get power rather than wield it.
   199. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:01 AM (#5714748)
Strictly from the partisanship afar perspective - it feels like Kemp is the one for a Democrat hoping (perhaps quixotically) for an upset to root for... at least, it seems fairly clear Cagle will pivot while I'm not sure Kemp can or even wants to. Or - would it be a better bet for Cagle and his pivot slackening Trumpkin enthusiasm and just relying on the environment and Abrams to juice blue votes?

At this point Kemp's 18 points ahead of Cagle in the latest GOP primary poll, and 14 points ahead in the RCP average. Seems like the November outcome will turn on how many new voters Abrams can get to the polls and how many Cagle voters will just stay home.

   200. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5714761)
I don't think Abrams would win so most of me wants Cagle to win though he isn't as much of a just about the business as Deal is/was. I don't know if anyone can be in this era. Kemp is a joke of a candidate and him winning the nomination would give Abrams her best shot at winning but I don't know if we can risk that. The downside is that Abrams loses and we get stuck with Kemp. The upside is that we get a largely unknown Abrams as the winner and a probably check on a GOP controlled legislature that under Deal was pretty mild when it came to non business stuff. But again in this era of Trumpism I don't know if it would stay that way or how much Deal moderated some of the zaniness of the GA state legislature.
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