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Monday, July 23, 2018

OTP 2018 July 23: How sports and American politics made each other

In January 1942, as the United States committed itself fully to World War II, President Franklin Roosevelt decided that baseball, then the national pastime, should sustain civilian morale during the lengthy struggle ahead. He implored its commissioner, Kenesaw Mountain Landis, to make sure the games went on, despite worldwide armed conflict. And so they did. Professional baseball players, Roosevelt argued, “are a definite recreational asset.”

Roosevelt did not extend that consideration to professional football players, whose sport did not register politically. As a result, the National Football League nearly shut its doors during World War II. So many players were called to serve that several franchises had to merge. In fact, the league didn’t take off until it closely associated itself with national politics. For the past half century, the intertwining of American football and politics has sustained both pastimes.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 23, 2018 at 08:42 AM | 1431 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: football, off topic, politics

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   201. perros Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5714762)
Anyone recall Howie ever complaining about class warfare before? Me neither. In a typically Republican way (if not consistent with Republican values), Howie complains about something that supposedly affects his field of employment.

SAD!

You know what's sad, Joe? When somebody gains a measure of political consciousness through their personal experience, yet they are poo-pooed because they were in the dark previously. More and more people are going to get screwed going forward, and if you make it a habit to dismiss them as Republicans, guess what? They will become Republicans, or worse, respond to the first demagogue who comes by after you walk away and affirms, "Yes, you wuz screwed!" by whatever fill in the blank other best fits the demagogue's purpose.

For some reason, people imagine some static universe in which people are permanently red or blue, or imagine the non-voting majority will come around if they are told they are stupid for not voting for a corporate shill 'cos that bastard on the otherside is a bumblefuck dipsh-t.

Do you think there is an American left beyond pre-schoolers and the demented that don't know who and what Trump is?

I shouldn't have to warn you of the dangers of believing you already have the numbers on your side. Or that even when you do, the other side has the resources to tilt the board in their favor.

Trump did not create any of the massive problems and outright wrongs facing the country or the world, but merely took advantage of them for personal self-agrandizment. And the G-ddamn Old Party is taking advantage of The Trump Show to drive its agenda home while the The Resistance forcuses their hate on a puppet.

Not saying don't attack Trump, but so it for the evil stuff he does and not the stupid #### he says.
   202. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:22 AM (#5714766)

Abrams chance hinges a little on her (she needs a big AA turnout) but mostly on DJT continuing to roil independents, the rightward tilting segment of which may stay home. But
I don't have a feeling for her strengths and weaknesses at all. Just didn't really follow the D primary and she's been pretty quiet, letting the two remaining R's beat up on each other.

On the R side, I think that it is a choice between symbolism and substance. Cagle, whatever one may think of his views, is a competent politician who has spent a lot of time building a base of insiders in the traditional fashion and can get legislation through. Kemp is trying to be Bubba the Histrionic Outsider, but, in my opinion, lacks the actual ability to accomplish his objectives unless those objectives are just to get power rather than wield it.


Makes sense... though, as Andy followed up - Abrams could certainly use some disaffected Cagle voters... but them sitting home is almost as good.

In a way, that almost puts the onus on Abrams to make the choice... does she try to pivot - and presuming Kemp has no desire to do so, attempt to lop off some of the center? I'm no expert on Abrams either - beyond the fact that the certainly partisan sources I read gush over her (and also that she definitely staked out the left against Evans) - but my gut tells me that the environment will give her more room to maneuver in that direction if she chooses.

This, of course, is a big argument in certain areas of the left... whether candidates should go full base and max out their own turnout vs center pivots to broaden appeal.

I tend to think the former is more valuable in off-Presidential cycle elections. Turnout is lower and there's more to be had by just getting your folks to the polls... but all things in moderation and no rule applies everywhere in all elections. This feels like an instance where - assuming Kemp wins - there might well be some fertile ground available immediately to her right.
   203. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5714769)
Not saying don't attack Trump, but so it for the evil stuff he does and not the stupid #### he says.


Why not both?

The Soul of the Republican Party:
Tariffs are the greatest! Either a country which has treated the United States unfairly on Trade negotiates a fair deal, or it gets hit with Tariffs. It’s as simple as that - and everybody’s talking! Remember, we are the “piggy bank” that’s being robbed. All will be Great!
   204. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5714771)
Clapper's silly poll notwithstanding I must admit I like how things are trending ... The House Tilts Toward the Democrats

KEY POINTS FROM THIS ARTICLE

— Democrats are now a little better than 50-50 to win the House. This is the first time this cycle we’ve gone beyond 50-50 odds on a House turnover.

— We’re making 17 House ratings changes this week, all in favor of the Democrats.

— One of those comes in OH-12, where the last nationally-watched special House election is taking place in a couple of weeks.


What could be driving this?

Checking in on the true swing voters: Those who disapprove of both parties (Down the page a bit)

As we wrote last month, one of the clues we missed about Trump in 2016 was his overperformance among voters who disliked BOTH Trump and Hillary Clinton. These voters made up 18 percent of voters in our merged NBC/WSJ polls of 2016, and they disproportionately broke for Trump and the GOP on the generic ballot.

So how are these kinds of voters breaking now? Well, our latest NBC/WSJ poll finds that Democrats are overperforming among voters who hold negative views of both parties (representing 13 percent of the sample). Here’s the past and current congressional preference among these voters:

- 2010 merged NBC/WSJ poll: 49 percent GOP, 23 percent DEM (R+26)

- 2014 merged NBC/WSJ poll: 51 percent GOP, 24 percent DEM (R+27)

- 2018 merged NBC/WSJ poll (through June): 50 percent DEM, 36 percent GOP (D+14)

- 2018 NBC/WSJ poll from July: 55 percent DEM, 25 percent GOP (D+30)


So hey, if winning means getting the discontent on my side, I can live with that.
   205. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5714779)
177

That was your big mouth typing that, Ray.


That must be a tough trick! I'd like to see that, GB.
   206. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5714780)
You know what's sad, Joe? When somebody gains a measure of political consciousness through their personal experience, yet they are poo-pooed because they were in the dark previously. More and more people are going to get screwed going forward, and if you make it a habit to dismiss them as Republicans, guess what? They will become Republicans, or worse, respond to the first demagogue who comes by after you walk away and affirms, "Yes, you wuz screwed!" by whatever fill in the blank other best fits the demagogue's purpose.

Sure but nobody has any kind of real solution for people who are getting screwed in the transition other than to say start over in a new field. Hell, the GOP don't even want to pay to help people transition to new fields.

But all of this misses the point. Trump won in some traditionally blue states with high amount of blue collar workers because the GOP has spent decades destroying that powerbase by being dismissive and actively trying to make their lives worse because it was in the GOP's political interest to do so. So this all goes back to the silly argument that it is the Democrats fault that Trump won because they were mean to him.
   207. dlf Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:37 AM (#5714781)
... how much Deal moderated some of the zaniness of the GA state legislature.


Harkening back to the 1960s Atlanta motto of 'too busy to hate' Deal's veto statement on a post Obergefell legislative attempt to restrict certain LGBT rights:

"HB 757 appeared in several forms during the 2016 legislative session," said Deal. "I had no objection to the 'Pastor Protection Act' that was passed by the House of Representatives. The other versions of the bill, however, contained language that could give rise to state-sanctioned discrimination. I did have problems with that and made my concerns known as did many other individuals and organizations, including some within the faith-based community.

"I appreciate the efforts of the General Assembly to address these concerns and my actions today in no way disparage the motivations of those who support this bill. Their efforts to purge this bill of any possibility that it will allow or encourage discrimination illustrates how difficult it is to legislate on something that is best left to the broad protections of the First Amendment of the United State Constitution. If indeed our religious liberty is conferred by God and not by man-made government, we should heed the 'hands-off' admonition of the First Amendment to our Constitution. When legislative bodies attempt to do otherwise, the inclusions and omissions in their statutes can lead to discrimination, even though it may be unintentional. That is too great a risk to take.

"Some of those in the religious community who support this bill have resorted to insults that question my moral convictions and my character. Some within the business community who oppose this bill have resorted to threats of withdrawing jobs from our state. I do not respond well to insults or threats. The people of Georgia deserve a leader who will made sound judgements based on solid reasons that are not inflamed by emotion. That is what I intend to do.

"As I’ve said before, I do not think we have to discriminate against anyone to protect the faith-based community in Georgia, of which my family and I have been a part of for all of our lives. My decision regarding HB 757 is not just about protecting the faith-based community or providing a business friendly climate for job growth in Georgia. This is about the character of our state and the character of its people. Georgia is a welcoming state filled with warm, friendly and loving people. Our cities and countryside are populated with people who worship God in a myriad of ways and in very diverse settings. Our people work side-by-side without regard to the color of our skin, or the religion to which we adhere. We are working to make life better for our families and our communities. That is the character of Georgia. I intend to do my part to keep it that way."
Link (although Andy like, I copied the whole thing)

   208. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5714787)
190

Donald Trump is pretty unequivocally a sissy whiny little btch.


FIFY
   209. Howie Menckel Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5714792)
"Anyone recall Howie ever complaining about class warfare before? Me neither. In a typically Republican way (if not consistent with Republican values), Howie complains about something that supposedly affects his field of employment."

I love how people who have never met me can confidently make assumptions about me.
I never knew of anybody who could pull that stunt off accurately.

wait - I still don't.

guys, people are more complicated than you think.

   210. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5714794)
That was your big mouth typing that, Ray.

That must be a tough trick! I'd like to see that, GB.


That's a joke, of course, but I have a friend in Tacoma who's quadriplegic because of some nerve condition & who has written voluminously on old comics using a mouth-held pointer. I'm proofing his upcoming book on '40s comics chapter-by-chapter. (Voice recognition software has only recently become advanced enough for him to use it instead, & then pretty much in self-defense, as he'd begun experiencing really debilitating jaw & neck pain.)

Even more remarkably, he's a gifted artist & was hired by Marvel about 30 years ago, though he quickly surmised that he just couldn't meet their deadlines.
   211. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5714796)
People are complex not complicated.
   212. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5714801)
You know what's sad, Joe? When somebody gains a measure of political consciousness through their personal experience, yet they are poo-pooed because they were in the dark previously. More and more people are going to get screwed going forward, and if you make it a habit to dismiss them as Republicans, guess what? They will become Republicans, or worse, respond to the first demagogue who comes by after you walk away and affirms, "Yes, you wuz screwed!" by whatever fill in the blank other best fits the demagogue's purpose.

For some reason, people imagine some static universe in which people are permanently red or blue, or imagine the non-voting majority will come around if they are told they are stupid for not voting for a corporate shill 'cos that bastard on the otherside is a bumblefuck dipsh-t.

Do you think there is an American left beyond pre-schoolers and the demented that don't know who and what Trump is?

I shouldn't have to warn you of the dangers of believing you already have the numbers on your side. Or that even when you do, the other side has the resources to tilt the board in their favor.

Trump did not create any of the massive problems and outright wrongs facing the country or the world, but merely took advantage of them for personal self-agrandizment. And the G-ddamn Old Party is taking advantage of The Trump Show to drive its agenda home while the The Resistance forcuses their hate on a puppet.

Not saying don't attack Trump, but so it for the evil stuff he does and not the stupid #### he says.


Physician, heal thyself.

The fact is that roughly 40% of the country is employed by those corporate shills... and even with worker satisfaction just barely up from its all-time lows about a decade ago, you're still going find nearly half satisfied with it.

That's the problem with folks who come at it from your angle... it's not elitism you dislike, it's just the flavor of elitism you dislike, where the checklist of what and why must be adhered to.

Like all institutions, governments are imperfect. Like all large institutions - they are blunt instruments, incapable by design of righting every wrong.

I recognize the "center-left" cannot alone form a winning a coalition... my concern is that "left" often ignores the fact that they can't either.
   213. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5714806)
I love how people who have never met me can confidently make assumptions about me.
I never knew of anybody who could pull that stunt off accurately.

wait - I still don't.

guys, people are more complicated than you think.


Howie, all people here know you by is your comments. You've chosen to remain anonymous, your core political opinions are oblique, and you're the only one who can fill in the blanks. Until you do that, people are going to notice your constant On The One Hand / On The Other Hand / Everything's Just So So Complicated m.o., and respond to that accordingly.
   214. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5714808)
210

That's a joke, of course, but I have a friend in Tacoma who's paraplegic & who has written voluminously on old comics using a mouth-held pointer. I'm proofing his upcoming book on '40s comics chapter-by-chapter. (Voice recognition software has only recently become advanced enough for him to use it instead, & then somewhat in self-defense, as he'd begun experiencing really debilitating jaw & neck pain.)

Even more remarkably, he's a gifted artist & was hired by Marvel about 30 years ago, though he quickly surmised that he just couldn't meet their deadlines.


That's great that he could do all that. Amazing, really! I'm stumbling over how to properly express it, but there's something about this story that says "This is America."

I'm not really sure why I have this reaction and I'm not being sarcastic.
   215. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5714809)
That's great that he could do all that. I'm stumbling over how to properly express it, but there's something about this story that says "This is America."

I'm not really sure why I have this reaction and I'm not being sarcastic.


Along with all his other challenges, he's also a Mariners fan.
   216. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5714811)
That's great that he could do all that. I'm stumbling over how to properly express it, but there's something about this story that says "This is America."

I'm not really sure why I have this reaction and I'm not being sarcastic.



Along with all his other challenges, he's also a Mariners fan.


Ahem...check the handle...
   217. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5714813)
PICTURED: Hillary and Bill's intimate dinner with Harvey Weinstein weeks after HRC’s election loss

Aw it’s great that they remained good friends with Harvey even after all that unpleasantness with the actresses.
   218. DavidFoss Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5714817)
even after all that unpleasantness with the actresses.

11 months *before* the Ronan Farrow article.

Not meaning to defend anyone. Just being a bit pedantic. :-)
   219. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5714818)
Oh #### was it really that recent? My bad.
   220. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5714819)
even after all that unpleasantness with the actresses.

11 months *before* the Ronan Farrow article.


Powerful and wealthy people having dinner with other powerful and wealthy people? Yeah, quite a story. Still if the conservatives didn't have the Clintons to kick around any more they will ... well I am not sure I will live long enough to ever know.
   221. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5714820)
One thing that really concerns is the lack of US preparedness for the millions of suicides that will immediately follow the deaths of Bill and Hillary as so many people lose their reason to live.

The health hazard of so many dead bodies is a disaster waiting to happen and I really do hope that federal, state, and local governments are planning how they'll handle it and give them proper burials.
   222. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5714824)
Shocking.

House GOP leaders are reneging on a vow to hold an immigration vote before the August recess, a move that puts House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy in a particularly awkward spot as he seeks to become the next speaker.

In June, McCarthy (R-Calif.) personally promised several rank-and-file members a vote on a new guest-worker program for farmers, an offer backed by Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.). The assurance was critical at the time: It persuaded Reps. Dennis Ross (R-Fla.) and Dan Newhouse (R-Wash.) not to sign on to an effort — which Republican leaders were desperately trying to stop — to force a vote on legislation creating a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers, the immigrants brought to the country illegally as children. The so-called discharge petition ultimately fell two signatures short.


Who could have seen that coming... except everyone.
   223. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:27 AM (#5714826)
Who could have seen that coming... except everyone.


This sort of nonsense happens so often on the GOP side, either they are truly dumb as rocks or it is all just a ploy to fool some segments of their supporters - "Gee guys I really tried, but they tricked me".
   224. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:32 AM (#5714831)
Yikes.

Over the weekend, this chart from Bloomberg showing private data from PayScale’s wage index swept across Twitter. It shows a drop in wages in the second quarter of the year. While wages have risen by 12.9 percent overall since 2006, wages adjusted for inflation (so-called “real wages”) have actually fallen by 9.3 percent.

And between the first and second quarters of 2018 — after the tax cuts were enacted — real wages fell by 1.8 percent.

* * *

Some Republicans have even admitted that the tax cuts aren’t the boost to workers they promised. Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) this spring said there is “no evidence whatsoever that money’s been massively poured back into the American worker.” President Donald Trump has already started talking about a new tax bill that would reduce the corporate tax rate even more and make temporary tax cuts for families and individuals permanent.


That's on top of the BLS report showing that if you divvy up wage growth between supervisory positions and non-supervisory positions, the data looks just as bad.

Ouch.

But hey, at least it's doing yeoman's work exploding the deficit at a time of national economic expansion! That's good news for workers, right?
   225. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5714837)
You know what's sad, Joe? When somebody gains a measure of political consciousness through their personal experience, yet they are poo-pooed because they were in the dark previously.


Perhaps Joe would benefit from reading your autobiography, "None More Woke," now available on Amazon.
   226. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5714841)
Wow.

Lamb's road in the redrawn PA-17 was supposed to be easier than his original road in the old/existing PA-18, but geez... I don't think it was expected he'd be up 12 points over another sitting congressman.
   227. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5714847)
Yeesh, for a poor Russian student who just likes guns... this #freemariiabutina lady sure does seem to get around.

NRA conventions, Republican operative boyfriends, 'random' questions to future Presidents at 2015 forums, prayer breakfasts, man...
   228. zenbitz Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5714848)
There's also a kind of homophobia-lite involved in the use of "gay" just to mean silly or stupid


This is like 85% homophobic.

Donald Trump is pretty unequivocally a sissy.


And so is this, but in this case the other 15% is misogynist.


   229. perros Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5714849)
Physician, heal thyself.


I'm more of a pathologist. As in the center-left are led by ops like Third Way, which shockingly has much the same corporate agenda as the GOP.

As in the only good cop is a dead cop.
   230. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5714851)
227

NRA conventions, Republican operative boyfriends, 'random' questions to future Presidents at 2015 forums, prayer breakfasts, man...


Her real name is Zelig Gump.
   231. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5714854)
Donald Trump is pretty unequivocally a sissy.

And so is this, but in this case the other 15% is misogynist.


He may have delicate hands and a pendulous bosom but I don't think Donald Trump is a woman.
   232. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5714855)
Physician, heal thyself.

I'm more of a pathologist.


You should biopsy that lump between your ears.
   233. perros Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5714858)

Perhaps Joe would benefit from reading your autobiography, "None More Woke," now available on Amazon.


Pretty close. I run Amazon almost every night.
   234. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5714862)
224- We’re reaching the stage where countries invariably choose socialism or fascism. Smart money is on the latter.
   235. perros Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5714863)
   236. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5714866)
Ray also must think that nobody else is noticing what a complete buffoon he's become by pretending that he never wrote what he did.
Well, it works for Trump. Kind of. I mean, we all see what a buffoon he is, but he's still POTUS, and you're not.

Still, one would think being called out as a raging hypocrite would bother most people. Ray and SBB are immune from that particular concern.
   237. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5714873)

One thing that really concerns is the lack of US preparedness for the millions of suicides that will immediately follow the deaths of Bill and Hillary as so many people lose their reason to live.

The health hazard of so many dead bodies is a disaster waiting to happen and I really do hope that federal, state, and local governments are planning how they'll handle it and give them proper burials.
Given that the end of net neutrality will have already wiped all these people out, I don't think you need to worry.
   238. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5714879)
Given that the end of net neutrality will have already wiped all these people out, I don't think you need to worry.


Nobody said it would wipe them out... rather, it will just prevent them from reading about it.
   239. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5714883)

There's also a kind of homophobia-lite involved in the use of "gay" just to mean silly or stupid

This is like 85% homophobic.
Does that still happen? We did that in elementary school, but I don't think I remember it since. (Maybe it carried into middle school; I don't recall.) And this was the 1970s. It had nothing to do with malice towards gays at the time. (I was going to say that we didn't even know what gay was, but thinking about it more, that's not true; if a boy was too close to another boy, you might well hear one give the other a playful shove away from him and say, "What are you, gay?" or something like that. But it wasn't really any different than playfully shoving a girl away and saying, "Eww, cooties.")
   240. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5714886)
224- We’re reaching the stage where countries invariably choose socialism or fascism. Smart money is on the latter.


After Trump, our turn!
   241. BrianBrianson Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5714916)
Does that still happen? We did that in elementary school, but I don't think I remember it since. (Maybe it carried into middle school; I don't recall.) And this was the 1970s. It had nothing to do with malice towards gays at the time.


Yeah - I have one friend who uses it all the time, but social justice rules mean we can't complain, as he's the only homosexual in that circle of friends. I expect for younger kids, it's like the way "lame" or "gyp" are for our generation - where you don't realise it's suppose to be a slur until your thirties.
   242. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5714919)
224- We’re reaching the stage where countries invariably choose socialism or fascism. Smart money is on the latter.

After Trump, our turn!

That's what they said.
   243. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:47 PM (#5714922)
The aid package being talked about for the farmers that are hurt from tariffs -- now that is decline!
   244. DavidFoss Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5714929)
it's like the way "lame" or "gyp" are for our generation - where you don't realise it's suppose to be a slur until your thirties.

'lame' is a today-I-realized!

I suppose 'dumb' is so firmly entrenched as a pejorative that you wouldn't use it for a mute person anymore. I suppose 'moron', 'imbecile', and 'idiot' used to be psychiatric terms with very specific IQ-ranges associated with them (listed in descending IQ order) but the medical community had to abandon those long long ago.
   245. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:01 PM (#5714935)
You guys are acting like a bunch of retards.
   246. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:03 PM (#5714936)
One slur there was never much ambiguity about was when someone accused someone of "jewing" him out of his money. I used to hear that more from the Catholic school kids than anyone else, but then this was over 60 years ago, back when Pat Buchanan was a student and anti-semitism in his circles was quite out in the open.
   247. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5714940)
You guys are acting like a bunch of retards.

I'd say they were acting more like the east end of a westbound mule, but Ray would probably say that was crime against nature signaling.
   248. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5714947)
One slur there was never much ambiguity about was when someone accused someone of "jewing" him out of his money. I used to hear that more from the Catholic school kids than anyone else, but then this was over 60 years ago, back when Pat Buchanan was a student and anti-semitism in his circles was quite out in the open.

Indian giver was the big one when I was a kid but I don't think anyone actually knew what it really meant or if anyone or any group was being slighted.
   249. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5714964)
it's like the way "lame" or "gyp" are for our generation - where you don't realise it's suppose to be a slur until your thirties.

'lame' is a today-I-realized!


And how ironic that the dance, "The Crip Walk" is an ableist slur? Don't even get me started on "The Stanky Leg" which is a 19th century term for gangrene. Oh how it hurts my soul to live in such a cruel society.
   250. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5714974)

it's like the way "lame" or "gyp" are for our generation - where you don't realise it's suppose to be a slur until your thirties.
Matt Yglesias virtue signaled on "lame" the other day. Sorry, but "lame" is not a slur. (Indeed, does anyone use it for crippled people anymore?) If one wants to be offended by it, one can shove it.
   251. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5714975)
How many years old were you when you realized TAG meant "touch and go"?
   252. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:29 PM (#5714976)
How many years old were you when you realized TAG meant "touch and go"?


Let's see... today I am.... so, that age.
   253. Brian C Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:30 PM (#5714977)
Matt Yglesias virtue signaled on "lame" the other day. Sorry, but "lame" is not a slur. (Indeed, does anyone use it for crippled people anymore?) If one wants to be offended by it, one can shove it.

Tough to really get your back into shoving it when you're lame, though. Do the slurs never cease?
   254. . Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:31 PM (#5714978)
Looks like Andy’s bizarre obsession with “anonymity” continues apace.
   255. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5714980)
how much Deal moderated some of the zaniness of the GA state legislature.


Deal has basically been the Chamber of Commerce Republican that is nearly an endangered species.

I agree that Cagle is a more effective politician, so Kemp leading in the polls surprises me--that must be a Trump Bump. Abrams has a better chance against Kemp, but will be an underdog regardless of who wins today's primary.
   256. BrianBrianson Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5714983)
How many years old were you when you realized TAG meant "touch and go"?


I suspect this isn't true, since it's called "tig" in much of England, and this kind of acronyming is a pretty recent invention (presumably, unlike tag, it postdates mass literacy). Internets concur.

Indeed, does anyone use it for crippled people anymore?


Literally every time I stage a production of "A Christmas Carol".
   257. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5714985)
How many years old were you when you realized TAG meant "touch and go"?
Never, of course.

EDIT: Damn you, Double Brian. You can have a Sprite.
   258. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5714986)
I suspect this isn't true, since it's called "tig" in much of England, and this kind of acronyming is a pretty recent invention (presumably, unlike tag, it postdates mass literacy). Internets concur.

It's an internet meme and Zonk complied and supplied the punchline of the joke.
   259. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:38 PM (#5714989)
As mentioned before...

The U.S. Agriculture Department on Tuesday plans to announce a $12 billion package of emergency aid for farmers caught in the midst of President Trump’s escalating trade war, two people briefed on the plan said, the latest sign that growing tensions between the United States and other countries will not end soon. …

The aid package is expected to target soybean farmers, dairy farmers, and pork producers, among others. White House officials hope it will quiet some of the unease from farm groups, but the new plan could revive debates about taxpayer-funded bailouts and the degree to which Trump’s trade strategy is leading to unforeseen costs.


Words cannot describe how utterly stupid this all is.
   260. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5714990)
One slur there was never much ambiguity about was when someone accused someone of "jewing" him out of his money. I used to hear that more from the Catholic school kids than anyone else, but then this was over 60 years ago, back when Pat Buchanan was a student and anti-semitism in his circles was quite out in the open.

I still hear that one all the time, but from friends, and it's among the less offensive anti-Semitic comments they direct my way.

We are a delightful bunch.
   261. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5714995)
Words cannot describe how utterly stupid this all is.


This is literally (and by literally, I mean figuratively) paying people to dig holes and paying others to fill them up.
   262. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5714996)

Words cannot describe how utterly stupid this all is.


See Snapper was right. Tariffs help US workers.

Anywho, these bail outs will likely help big Agro and do little for Joe Farmer in Iowa. Much like the much regaled GOP tax break.
   263. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5714997)
I actually heard a weekend host on a national sports radio show use "gyped" the other day. I mean I don't really GAF but I was pretty shocked that in 2018 he used it on the radio.

I still hear that one all the time, but from friends, and it's among the less offensive anti-Semitic comments they direct my way.


I grew up playing smear the queer, calling male peers fags and retards and yea in our catholic enclave of N. MI "jewing" someone was used constantly. So was "gyped". It was a different time in the 90s.
   264. Howie Menckel Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5714999)
anyone ever Welsh on a bet?
   265. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5715000)
Only rarebit
   266. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5715001)
Just SBB
   267. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5715009)
I especially like how the SCLM describe the unforeseen costs.... you know, ignoring the fact that all kinds of people all over the political spectrum kind of, you know, foresaw them.

So, if you're scoring at home...

We need protectionist trade wars to help American workers. We don't want to just cut them checks or offer handouts because the dignity of work. So, we're going to cut them checks.

I really have to hand it to the Trumpublicans. They've managed to make liberal strawmen look stupid and ineffectual -- literally, creating a problem entirely by the hand of the government followed by the government 'solving' the problem it alone and entirely created with a bailout.

   268. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:54 PM (#5715011)
This is literally (and by literally, I mean figuratively) paying people to dig holes and paying others to fill them up.


As long as none of those people are Mexican.
   269. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5715013)
Not me, but a hero to me and many others.

PLAISTOW, N.H. (AP) — A man who stripped naked before working out at a New Hampshire gym told police officers that he thought he was in a “Judgement Free Zone,” before being arrested.

NECN reports 34-year-old Eric Stagno, of Haverhill, Massachusetts, was charged with indecent exposure, lewdness and disorderly conduct on Sunday for taking off his clothes and exercising at a Plaistow Planet Fitness.


Obviously I would never do anything like this because Planet Fitness is a crappy gym. I got ringworm there once, so it will always be known as "Planet Fungus" to me.
   270. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5715015)
Planet Fitness banned the egomaniacal, steroid-filled wannabe pro-wrestler that I went to high school with, so I give them credit for that.

Plus free candy!
   271. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5715031)
Speaking of unintended consequence (that were obviously foreseeable): Whirlpool loved Trump's tariffs. Now it's struggling


In January, when Trump announced tariffs on imported washing machines, CEO Marc Bitzer told analysts, "This is, without any doubt, a positive catalyst for Whirlpool."

But the Trump administration didn't stop there. It imposed tariffs on steel and aluminum, sending raw material prices skyrocketing. That has raised costs for Whirlpool by $350 million and squeezed its profit margins. Steel prices in the United States are 60% higher than the rest of the world, Bitzer told analysts on Tuesday.

Now Whirlpool is backtracking on its protectionist cheerleading. The company's reversal demonstrates the unintended consequences tariffs have sowed on manufacturers and their carefully-planned supply chains.

...

Whirlpool and rivals, such as LG and Samsung, have increased prices on washing machines since the tariffs went into effect. That led some people to pass up a new purchase. Washing machine prices in June were up close to 20% from a year prior, according to the Labor Department.

Whirlpool's sales in the United States fell 2.2% last quarter due to "very slow market demand," Bitzer said. In Europe, the Middle East and Africa, the company's second largest market, sales tumbled 12%.

...


SO MUCH WINNING!
   272. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5715033)
We can barely stand it.
   273. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:38 PM (#5715047)
Yeesh, for a poor Russian student who just likes guns... this #freemariiabutina lady sure does seem to get around. NRA conventions, Republican operative boyfriends, 'random' questions to future Presidents at 2015 forums, prayer breakfasts, man...

If merely being at the same fundraising dinner as Butina is problematic, then surely it must be worrisome that she met with senior government officials:
Maria Butina, accused in the United States of spying for Russia, had wider high-level contacts in Washington than previously known, taking part in 2015 meetings between a visiting Russian official and two senior U.S. officials.

The meetings, disclosed by several people familiar with the sessions and a report prepared by a Washington think tank that arranged them, involved Stanley Fischer, then Federal Reserve vice chairman, and Nathan Sheets, then Treasury undersecretary for international affairs.

That sure sounds like collusion. Oh, wait . . . that was in 2015? During the Obama Administration? Must be different rules, eh?
   274. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:42 PM (#5715056)
fundraising dinner
...
Treasury undersecretary for international affairs


You can't seriously believe that there's no difference between a Russian (government operative) attending a political fundraising dinner and meeting with a person whose job title suggests that his job is to literally meet with foreigners to discuss foreign affairs.
   275. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:47 PM (#5715061)
249

it's like the way "lame" or "gyp" are for our generation - where you don't realise it's suppose to be a slur until your thirties.

'lame' is a today-I-realized!


And how ironic that the dance, "The Crip Walk" is an ableist slur? Don't even get me started on "The Stanky Leg" which is a 19th century term for gangrene. Oh how it hurts my soul to live in such a cruel society.


Notice there aren't anymore ballplayers called "Dummy," "Gimpy," "Heinie" or "Swede?"
   276. zenbitz Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5715063)
He may have delicate hands and a pendulous bosom but I don't think Donald Trump is a woman.


Don't be a dumb ass. Calling him a sissy or a biyatch is comparing him to a woman in a negative light, or proclaiming he is weak because he is womanly.
   277. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5715064)

That sure sounds like collusion. Oh, wait . . . that was in 2015? During the Obama Administration? Must be different rules, eh?


By all means let them look into it and if there was illegal acts committed add more charges or defendants. But of course that isn't what this is about. Instead it is "hey, look at this shiny object over here" in the hopes that some of the oxygen is stolen away from the firestorm that is the Trump presidency.
   278. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5715066)
267

I really have to hand it to the Trumpublicans. They've managed to make liberal strawmen look stupid and ineffectual -- literally, creating a problem entirely by the hand of the government followed by the government 'solving' the problem it alone and entirely created with a bailout.


The arsonist who shows up with a garden hose.
   279. BDC Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5715067)
A lot of pejoratives have elements that are either lost to meaning or never considered analytically. Lousy, brutal, savage … "silly" originally meant "blessed" (as in German "Selig," of all words) and only later came to mean "naïve," "childish" via the sense "holy innocent," and then just got worse, till it meant so stupid it's not even worth taking seriously. "Strange" originally meant "not from around here" (cf. French "étranger") … if you call someone "strange," it's deeply xenophobic!
   280. BrianBrianson Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5715068)
Notice there aren't anymore ballplayers called "Dummy," "Gimpy," "Heinie" or "Swede?"


It's sad, because a certain Mr. Perry anchored my favourite whatifsports.com team in a year-by-year league.
   281. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5715069)
273

That sure sounds like collusion. Oh, wait . . . that was in 2015? During the Obama Administration? Must be different rules, eh?


Aaaaand there it is. Like clockwork.
   282. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5715073)
if you call someone "strange," it's deeply xenophobic!

Or you are just using your made up names!
   283. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5715075)
I always read "The Yankee Clapper" in John Sterling's voice. I like it.
   284. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5715076)
You can't seriously believe

Let me stop you right there. The Yankee Cockholster is a profoundly unserious person.
   285. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5715077)
280

It's sad, because a certain Mr. Perry anchored my favourite whatifsports.com team in a year-by-year league.


His brother was mainstay of mine in whatifsports.com for years.
   286. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:00 PM (#5715080)
284

The Yankee ########### is a profoundly unserious person.


You might even say "selig..."
   287. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5715084)
He may have delicate hands and a pendulous bosom but I don't think Donald Trump is a woman.

Don't be a dumb ass. Calling him a sissy or a biyatch is comparing him to a woman in a negative light, or proclaiming he is weak because he is womanly.


He's weak on his own merits. I'd bet you $10 my wife would beat him in a fair fight despite outweighing her by 100lbs. He's a big wimpy sackless blowhard, and if eunuchs take offense to such a characterization they can stick it in their ears so they don't have to listen to meanies like me. Go patrol the English vernacular in search of microaggressions on someone else's feed, hippie.
   288. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5715086)
From Trumps speech at the VFW Convention today:


President Trump encouraged his supporters to stick with him, even if they're seeing signs of trouble.

"Just remember what you’re seeing and what you're reading is not what’s happening," Trump said at the VFW convention in Kansas City.

He said the US economy is thriving, and not to believe work otherwise.

"Stick with us," Trump said. "Don’t believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news."


That should totally persuade the executives at Whirlpool in #271 ... that decrease in your profits and share price? FAKE NEWS!!!
   289. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5715088)
You can't seriously believe that there's no difference between a Russian (government operative) attending a political fundraising dinner and meeting with a person whose job title suggests that his job is to literally meet with foreigners to discuss foreign affairs.


Clapper stopped being serious some time ago, but FTR -- her path to becoming Anna Chapman v2.0 should certainly be part of the investigation and when her trial begins, I imagine we'll hear more about it.

None that addresses the fact that so far as I recall - Chapman was dating a NYC restaurant owner and plugging herself into the NYC social scene.

Mariia Butina was ####### longtime NRA/GOP politico Paul Erickson - who just happens to have a loooonnnngggg history with the ACU, Stephen Moore, Breitbart, and a whole host of orgs that just happen to Trump central.

It's entirely possible... maybe even likely... that they were just idiots who got duped. Sex certainly has a long history as an espionage tool.

However, I'm sure even Clapper would agree that - even if it proves to be quite embarrassing to his party - the details and truth of the imbroglio need to come out.
   290. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5715089)
You can't seriously believe that there's no difference between a Russian (government operative) attending a political fundraising dinner and meeting with a person whose job title suggests that his job is to literally meet with foreigners to discuss foreign affairs.

The article Zonk linked to in #227 indicates that the fundraiser was a non-political "Heroes for Freedom & Liberty" dinner, with Democratic politicians also in attendance, that benefited a Medal of Honor Foundation. However, wouldn't the main difference be that one wouldn't expect to control who else attended a fundraising event, but a government official controls who he or she meets privately with?
   291. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5715094)
Yes, Juanabout that Zonk? Juanabout it?
   292. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5715098)
"Just remember what you’re seeing and what you're reading is not what’s happening," Trump said at the VFW convention in Kansas City.


Who're ya gonna believe? Me? Or your own eyes?
   293. BDC Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5715100)
I'd bet you $10 my wife would beat him in a fair fight

Trump is 72 years old, so this isn't really fair.

Now, your average 72-year-old guy would kick Trump's ass quite satisfyingly. Who's 72 … Larry Bowa is 72. I would pay $10 to see Larry Bowa kick Donald Trump's ass.
   294. perros Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5715102)
I recognize the "center-left" cannot alone form a winning a coalition... my concern is that "left" often ignores the fact that they can't either.


How the Center(left) Plans to Quash the Left

The gathering here was just that — an effort to offer an attractive alternative to the rising Sanders-style populist left in the upcoming presidential race. Where progressives see a rare opportunity to capitalize on an energized Democratic base, moderates see a better chance to win over Republicans turned off by Trump.

The fact that a billionaire real estate developer, Winston Fisher, co-cohosted the event and addressed attendees twice underscored that this group is not interested in the class warfare vilifying the "millionaires and billionaires" found in Sanders' stump speech.

"You're not going to make me hate somebody just because they're rich. I want to be rich!" Rep. Tim Ryan, D-Ohio, a potential presidential candidate, said Friday to laughs.

The invitation-only gathering brought together about 250 Democratic insiders from key swing states. Third Way unveiled the results of focus groups and polling that it says shows Americans are more receptive to an economic message built on "opportunity" rather than the left's message about inequality.

"Once again, the time has come to mend, but not end, capitalism for a new era," said Third Way President Jon Cowan


You know, the Jon Cowan and Third Way funded by Wall Street investment banks who want to slash entitlements and oppose any tax increases on wealthy individuals and corporations to pay for social programs like Social Security and Medicare, let alone assistance for the poor. The same old DLC propaganda bankrolled by forces hostile to the vast majority of Americans.
   295. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5715111)
a government official controls who he or she meets privately with?


In your article, the Treasury undersecretary for international affairs met with a Russian government official and his translator (who appears to have been this Maria Butina woman). I'd suggest that this is the stupidest "what-about" in the history of "what-aboutism" but I'm afraid you'd take that as a challenge. A man whose job is to discuss foreign affairs with foreign government officials met with a foreign government official.
   296. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5715113)
The article Zonk linked to in #227 indicates that the fundraiser was a non-political "Heroes for Freedom & Liberty" dinner, with Democratic politicians also in attendance, that benefited a Medal of Honor Foundation. However, wouldn't the main difference be that one wouldn't expect to control who else attended a fundraising event, but a government official controls who he or she meets privately with?


Yes, Juanabout that Zonk? Juanabout it?


Yes, Zonk would say this should also be what we should learn about...

As I said, I think it's important to trace exactly how she came to ingratiate herself into such a varied and wide array of political happenstances.

We need the whole story.

We need to know just how much access she had through Paul Erickson... did she really "help" gauge Russian approval of various state and security appointees?

We need to know the background of her "graduate research work" into cybersecurity.

I'm sure Clapper agrees that it not really in dispute that national security require the truth be known, regardless of who it embarrasses.
   297. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5715120)
I'm sure Clapper agrees that it not really in dispute that national security require the truth be known, regardless of who it embarrasses.


The only "truth" Clapper knows is the "truth" Big Orange tells him.
   298. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5715121)
I'd bet you $10 my wife would beat him in a fair fight

Trump is 72 years old, so this isn't really fair.


Of course it doesn't seem to be fair on the face of it, Trump being the healthiest man in the history of the presidency and all. And it isn't like Yankee Belle is Ronda Rousey either, she's an English professor who teaches 19th century naturalistic lit and Tennessee Williams.

Still, I like her chances. She's a tough broad. Throws a left hook like a guy.
   299. Swoboda is freedom Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5715125)
it's like the way "lame" or "gyp" are for our generation

I didn't know gyp wasn't gip for a long time. Didn't know it had anything to do with gypsy folk. But since they want to be called Romani, is't it ok?

I never though lame was bad. How about Dutch treat or Dutch courage?
   300. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5715127)
In your article, the Treasury undersecretary for international affairs met with a Russian government official and his translator (who appears to have been this Maria Butina woman). I'd suggest that this is the stupidest "what-about" in the history of "what-aboutism" but I'm afraid you'd take that as a challenge. A man whose job is to discuss foreign affairs with foreign government officials met with a foreign government official.


At the behest of CNI... and CNI certainly isn't an unknown organization to government folks involved in foreign affairs (I mean, it's actually the org's stated purpose).

Indeed - the oddity here is that prior to this nugget, CNI was probably best known as anti-neocon... I believe they've had some... controversies (I/P conflict, IIRC - they also got accused of some uncomfortable proximity to orgs that dabble in holocaust denial).

Pre-Trump - you might almost say that they were somewhere in the realm of where the lefty Chomskyites and righty protectionist P4VLbots meet.

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