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Monday, July 23, 2018

OTP 2018 July 23: How sports and American politics made each other

In January 1942, as the United States committed itself fully to World War II, President Franklin Roosevelt decided that baseball, then the national pastime, should sustain civilian morale during the lengthy struggle ahead. He implored its commissioner, Kenesaw Mountain Landis, to make sure the games went on, despite worldwide armed conflict. And so they did. Professional baseball players, Roosevelt argued, “are a definite recreational asset.”

Roosevelt did not extend that consideration to professional football players, whose sport did not register politically. As a result, the National Football League nearly shut its doors during World War II. So many players were called to serve that several franchises had to merge. In fact, the league didn’t take off until it closely associated itself with national politics. For the past half century, the intertwining of American football and politics has sustained both pastimes.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 23, 2018 at 08:42 AM | 1431 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: football, off topic, politics

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   901. BrianBrianson Posted: July 26, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5716623)
See, it's statements like this that gave us Trump.


Indeed - I've been thinking about it. People gave Jeb a really hard time, but it turns out ... Supergirl is a really good show.
   902. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 26, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5716624)
Seriously, Hulk Hogan is a piece of #### who should have been blackballed from the business 20 years ago but you’ll have to forgive me for not freaking out over him saying a racist word when Vince McMahon made Tony Atlas a Tarzan jungle savage in public and Vince gets to ring the bell at the NYSE.
   903. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 26, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5716625)
So how do you hippies feel about Fake News?

Michael Cohen, President Donald Trump's former personal attorney, claims that then-candidate Trump knew in advance about the June 2016 meeting in Trump Tower in which Russians were expected to offer his campaign dirt on Hillary Clinton, sources with knowledge tell CNN. Cohen is willing to make that assertion to special counsel Robert Mueller, the sources said.


Someone likes borscht on their Nothingburger.
   904. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 26, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5716631)
Someone likes borscht on their Nothingburger.


Никакой марионетка, не марионетка. Ты марионетка.
   905. Spahn Insane Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5716634)
Starting to understand why Trump will likely win again in 2020?

Assuming this is a serious question—if I assume the truth of the premise, which is debatable to say the least, the answer is “Because the troglodytes still get to vote.” However, I’m detecting a poorly-executed “gotcha” in there someplace, though I’m damned if I know what it is, partly because the comment of mine Ray responded to in the first place was tongue-in-cheek, which I suspect was lost on BBTF’s newest LGBT activist. (As a wise [and very funny!] man once said, one third of people don’t understand humor.)
   906. Hot Wheeling American Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5716638)
@peltzmadeline
Tucker defends Alex Jones: "I know we're supposed to think Alex Jones is way more radical than Bill Maher or Michelle Wolf or Rosie O'Donnell but he's got a point of view and CNN is trying to squelch that point of view."

That’s Juan’s boy!
   907. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:13 PM (#5716639)
Ray, #874:
There's another reason - the foundation needs to be laid [for impeachment].
I think that’s right. You want people to be saying, “We’re not there yet,” so that people are contemplating getting there at some point.
Right. I mean, those election results won't overturn themselves.

...Again: unhinged.


Unlike Trump, Ray needs to be taken neither seriously nor literally.
   908. greenback slays lewks Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:17 PM (#5716642)
Going way back...

By the way, I had some free time today, so I read Bad Blood. Even though I knew the basic outline beforehand, it's still an astonishing book. Several other people here have recommended It, and I do too. My biggest criticism is that while it does an excellent job of telling what happened, it leaves more questions than answers as to how it happened.

I agree about the question of how, but isn't typical that such a topic is under-reported? I can't see the likes of David Boies and George Schultz and Tim Draper sitting down with a Wall Street Journal reporter, recounting in exacting detail how a twentysomething college dropout hoodwinked them into participating in a billion dollar fraud. These people are not comfortable with the idea of presenting themselves as chumps. Most people aren't, but these people particularly so.

The resilience of Holmes's supporters is remarkable. These were smart, powerful people who were willing to go to great lengths to ensure their delusions about Holmes weren't punctured. It would've been easy for any of them to call various Ivy League PhD's to get the low down on the technology that a couple of people here have discussed. But they chose not to. It's something that bothers me as I think about November 2020 or the reporting on popular opinion of the Mueller investigations.
   909. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5716647)
   910. Davo Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:31 PM (#5716650)
Uh oh, Betsy DeVos is having her revenge on those snot-nosed kids who hijacked one of her 10 yachts:

New Betsy DeVos rule would limit loan relief for defrauded students

(...)Currently, students may be eligible for federal loan forgiveness if their college closed or was accused of fraudulent activity. More than 130,000 borrowers have applied since 2015, a majority of whom attended for-profit colleges.

The new rule would replace one written by the Obama Administration.

(...)Consumer advocacy groups and Democrats say the new rule makes it too hard for borrowers to seek relief.

Those whose schools shut down while they were enrolled will no longer automatically receive debt relief. Under the new rule, students would have to submit an application and would not be eligible if the school provided an option to complete their program elsewhere.

Other borrowers who feel they were misled by their college would be required to submit more evidence of their school's misconduct and prove more difficult facts.

(...)The Education Department is also considering making only those borrowers who are in default qualify for loan forgiveness. Those who are current on their payments would not qualify for relief.
   911. BrianBrianson Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:34 PM (#5716651)
Right. I mean, those election results won't overturn themselves.

...Again: unhinged.


Unlike Trump, Ray needs to be taken neither seriously nor literally.


That's not fair. But every comment Ray says can be summed up as:

"All the world's deranged save thee and me, and even thou art a little deranged."
   912. Davo Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:42 PM (#5716654)
@Ocasio2018
The GOP is:
- weak on fighting for working class Americans
- weak on crime
- weak on equal rights
- weak on national security
- weak on rejecting racism
- weak on moral courage
- weak on family values

So yeah, I’d say this is a representative choice of their values.

Booooooooooo, I’m done, time to find a new lefty hero.
   913. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 26, 2018 at 10:48 PM (#5716658)
Jolly Old Andy, #894:
Oh, and in the Wisconsin gubernatorial matchup, Evers leads Walker by 13%. Frat Boy's luck may finally be running out.
Davos, #895:
Good riddance. Walker might be the most evil of the bunch.

Scott Walker did the best he could by being the first candidate to drop out of the 2016 GOP primaries before anyone had the chance to realize he'd been in them. That was actually a smart political move. Especially when the anti-union money wasn't flooding into his campaign as he'd expected, and when everybody on both sides believed Hillary was probably going to win. But Walker's selling point in 2015-- "I just beat the Democrats 3 times in 4 years" didn't sell. And a sound thrashing won't make it any shinier for 2020, or 2024, or whenever Walker hoped he would be primed to try again for real. Politics, like comedy or soufflés, is timing.
   914. Srul Itza Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5716662)
So they're reporting that Michael Cohen is saying Trump knew about Donnie Jr's meeting with the Russkies!!

YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!



.
.
.
.
.
.

absolutely nothing
   915. tshipman Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:22 PM (#5716664)


You, a philistine: TV news is designed to distract without actually using the visual medium to tell a story.

Me, an intellectual: CNN captured the soul of the Trump Administration.
   916. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:51 PM (#5716666)
Re your text that I bolded, repeat after me: That does not mean that Rosenstein is not a witness.

Sure it does. (Well, I mean everyone is a witness to something. But he's not a witness to anything material.)


Yes, he is. Please understand that the next time you call SBB a fake lawyer the above is the epitome of it. You either don't know the facts, can't comprehend what Trump's potential defenses to obstruction might be (and thus why Rosenstein's testimony would be relevant), don't understand what material means -- we've had that problem before -- or you're simply misleading people.

Real lawyers are able to understand what their opponents' arguments might be so that the potential arguments can be rebutted.
   917. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: July 26, 2018 at 11:55 PM (#5716667)
Seriously, Hulk Hogan is a piece of #### who should have been blackballed from the business 20 years ago but you’ll have to forgive me for not freaking out over him saying a racist word when Vince McMahon made Tony Atlas a Tarzan jungle savage in public and Vince gets to ring the bell at the NYSE.


C'mon, man, Saba Simba would've been huge had Roddy Piper not #### all over it on commentary and referred to him as Tony Atlas!
   918. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5716668)
Unlike Trump, Ray needs to be taken neither seriously nor literally.


Recycling unwitty material from two days ago?
   919. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:09 AM (#5716670)
Ignoring unwitty material from three years ago?
5313. Ray (CTL) Posted: July 26, 2015 at 01:27 PM (#5006872)

You're right; instead, the left just seems not to care about it, as they fellate Iran and assail America's bakers.

Hey, it was just the three-year anniversary of Ray being a clownish, bad faith hypocrite who needs to be taken neither seriously nor literally!
   920. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:23 AM (#5716676)
Scott Walker did the best he could by being the first candidate to drop out of the 2016 GOP primaries before anyone had the chance to realize he'd been in them. That was actually a smart political move. Especially when the anti-union money wasn't flooding into his campaign as he'd expected, and when everybody on both sides believed Hillary was probably going to win.
There is nobody, at least not on the GOP side, who believed Hillary was probably going to win -- not until Trump won the nomination. Those of you left of center may have deluded yourselves with absurd notions about how the only reason she lost in 2008 was because Obama was the bestest candidate ever, but everyone else knew how lousy a candidate she was.
   921. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:26 AM (#5716677)
Real lawyers are able to understand what their opponents' arguments might be so that the potential arguments can be rebutted.
Oh, I already know what Trump's arguments might be: "IKYABWAI?"
   922. . Posted: July 27, 2018 at 06:25 AM (#5716680)
Real lawyers are able to understand what their opponents' arguments might be so that the potential arguments can be rebutted.


Real lawyers know their opponents' arguments as well or better than their own (*), particularly if a matter is headed to litigation.

Rosenstein isn't just a witness -- he clearly and obviously is, irrespective of the dilettante's target demo rantings -- he's a direct participant in relevant events.

(*) There's actually a stronger version of this, which is that really real lawyers know their opponents' arguments, even if the opponent has not yet even made the argument, particularly if a matter is headed for litigation.
   923. . Posted: July 27, 2018 at 06:35 AM (#5716681)
Oh, I already know what Trump's arguments might be


No, you don't. Not even close.
   924. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 06:45 AM (#5716682)
C'mon, man, Saba Simba would've been huge had Roddy Piper not #### all over it on commentary and referred to him as Tony Atlas!


Yeah? You think that hurt the heat for Saba Simba’s upcoming feud with Akeem the African Dream, a white guy turned into a jive-talking, shucking and jiving sambo by his black manager, a Huggy Bear pimp?
   925. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 06:45 AM (#5716683)
Oh, I already know what Trump's arguments might be

No, you don't. Not even close.


I think he’s close.
   926. . Posted: July 27, 2018 at 06:51 AM (#5716684)
I think he’s close.


I'm sure you do.
   927. Lassus Posted: July 27, 2018 at 06:54 AM (#5716685)
No, you don't. Not even close.

Well, if you know he's not close, you must have an idea you feel is closer. Why don't you share with us?
   928. Lassus Posted: July 27, 2018 at 06:57 AM (#5716687)
everyone else knew how lousy a candidate she was.

Speaking of brilliance, who else from the clown car would have beaten her, exactly?
   929. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:05 AM (#5716688)
I think he’s close.

I'm sure you do.


You’re thinking Chewbacca Defense?
   930. . Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:10 AM (#5716689)
Well, if you know he's not close, you must have an idea you feel is closer. Why don't you share with us?


??

They've been written about at length. For quite some time now.
   931. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:17 AM (#5716690)
It’s totally Chewbacca Defense.
   932. Omineca Greg Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:31 AM (#5716691)
Никакой марионетка, не марионетка. Ты марионетка.

Watch this.
   933. Lassus Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:39 AM (#5716693)
They've been written about at length. For quite some time now.

Christ, talk about repeating yourself.
   934. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:42 AM (#5716694)
Fake Lawer is going to invoke the Ligma Defense.
   935. . Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:46 AM (#5716695)
Christ, talk about repeating yourself.


LOL, no, actually you demanded a repeat and I said no.

So pretty much the exact opposite of what you said.
   936. Lassus Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:53 AM (#5716696)
Fake Lawer is going to invoke the Ligma Defense.

Seems more like Option J.
   937. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 08:38 AM (#5716703)

Stop me if you've heard this one before: a patent lawyer and a fake lawyer walk into a bar...
   938. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 27, 2018 at 08:39 AM (#5716704)
We have the macro, all the way to the micro.

The Bottom Line in Republicans' 42 Open Seats

With 102 days to go, Democrats remain substantial favorites for House control. A big reason: Republicans are defending 42 open or vacant seats, a record since at least 1930. The retirements of Speaker Paul Ryan (WI-01), as well as powerful committee chairs like Reps. Ed Royce (CA-39) and Rodney Frelinghuysen (NJ-11) and popular moderates like Reps. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (FL-27) and Frank LoBiondo (NJ-02), have given Democrats stellar pickup opportunities.



Role reversal: Architect of 2010 GOP House takeover in trouble


Texas Rep. Pete Sessions, a longtime party leader and former House GOP campaign chief, is confronting a treacherous political landscape back at home — a well-funded Democratic opponent with a boffo résumé, a rapidly diversifying and more liberal district, and, perhaps most critically, a constituency of well-educated and upper-income suburban voters who increasingly are turning on the president.

His predicament underscores the grave danger confronting Republicans this fall. As the party braces for an electoral drubbing that threatens to wipe out the majority they won eight years ago, the list of incumbents under duress is growing ever longer — and even powerful lawmakers like Sessions, a sharp-elbowed tactician who hasn’t faced a serious reelection contest in over a decade, are suddenly trying to survive a Trump-fueled bloodbath. In Texas alone, Democrats are targeting three Republican incumbents who’ve been in office for over a decade.


I hope the Democrats do win at least one chamber of Congress, not just for the normal reasons, but I think watching Trump try to navigate an unfriendly Congress promises to be endlessly amusing.
   939. . Posted: July 27, 2018 at 08:40 AM (#5716705)
Stop me if you've heard this one before: a patent lawyer and a fake lawyer walk into a bar...


A stalky dilettante walks over to them ....
   940. BDC Posted: July 27, 2018 at 09:12 AM (#5716718)
Pete Sessions … rapidly diversifying and more liberal district


Pete Sessions' district in northeast Dallas County includes Plano, TX, which I still think of as the archetypal GOPe white-flight megachurch suburb. It was that 25 years ago, but my mental map is behind the times. Conservative white flight from Dallas has proceeded further and further outward, and older suburbs like Plano are distinctly bluing as they get more affordable and more working-/middle-class minority folks move there. Something of the same thing is happening in the "mid-Cities" here, Arlington/Grand-Prairie/Irving. The red parts of DFW are growing northwards, and they are very red.

I don't know if anyone' s posted the NYT's 2016 Presidential-election precinct-by-precinct map. It's pretty engrossing. I was surprised to find that my precinct went for Clinton, 50%-42%. Actually, looking at the precinct boundaries, this shouldn't be surprising, as the area includes a lot of low-income apartments and many blacks and Latinos. But the areas just to the west of me are brick-red low-tax enclaves, not part of Arlington proper, so I often get the sense, driving around here, that I am living in deep GOP country.
   941. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 09:21 AM (#5716721)
I hope the Democrats do win at least one chamber of Congress, not just for the normal reasons, but I think watching Trump try to navigate an unfriendly Congress promises to be endlessly amusing.
Trump has alienated anyone left of David Duke, so it might be politically very difficult for Democrats to work with him on anything; at this point if he came out against childhood cancer, liberals might start rooting for leukemia. (Moreover, even if Trump signed a deal in blood, they couldn’t trust him.). But from Trump’s side, I don’t think it would be so difficult for him to work with a Democratic Congress. Since he has no principles and even less integrity, he would have no compunction about doing deals with them; the fact of a deal is more important than what it is. (And in any case, regardless of what it was, he would then declare victory and pretend that he got what he had wanted all along.)
   942. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 27, 2018 at 09:28 AM (#5716725)
#941 - I don't disagree with the larger part of what you are saying, but that is part of why it will all be amusing. "Leukemia, all bad?" could be pretty darn funny.
   943. McCoy Posted: July 27, 2018 at 09:36 AM (#5716729)
I don't know if anyone' s posted the NYT's 2016 Presidential-election precinct-by-precinct map. It's pretty engrossing. I was surprised to find that my precinct went for Clinton, 50%-42%. Actually, looking at the precinct boundaries, this shouldn't be surprising, as the area includes a lot of low-income apartments and many blacks and Latinos. But the areas just to the west of me are brick-red low-tax enclaves, not part of Arlington proper, so I often get the sense, driving around here, that I am living in deep GOP country.

Had no idea I lived in a blue district in Acworth, didn't really know that my district in Marietta is solidly blue. I mean I figured it was blue but not on a 75-22 rate. Now that I think of it I don't know if I've ever lived in red district.
   944. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5716732)
Trump has alienated anyone left of David Duke, so it might be politically very difficult for Democrats to work with him on anything; at this point if he came out against childhood cancer, liberals might start rooting for leukemia.


Not the greatest of analogies when there's evidence that Trump defrauded donors to St Jude Children's Research Hospital, the research institution widely credited for the massive improvements in survival for pediatric lymphoblastic and myeloid leukemias and considered the preeminent clinical facility for childhood leukemia in the world.
   945. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 27, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5716738)
So anyway it appears that the overall GOP House campaign has a theme of "Better Off Now" which is I guess the best they can do, but man the GOP is ever so much better at campaigning against evil liberals in charge than they are being the party in control.
   946. McCoy Posted: July 27, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5716741)
Everybody is better at campaigning against the powers that be. It's so much simpler. You aren't in power so you can promise pretty much anything and those in power basically have to be perfect in order for their to be no gripes. Having said that while the messaging is easier actually winning is harder as a non incumbent.
   947. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:01 AM (#5716748)
Not the greatest of analogies when there's evidence that Trump defrauded donors to St Jude Children's Research Hospital,
Hey, now, that’s Eric Trump cheating St. Jude’s. Donald solved the problem by just not giving anything to charity ever, and just spending his foundation’s funds on himself.
   948. BDC Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:03 AM (#5716750)
evidence that Trump defrauded donors to St Jude Children's Research Hospital

My gosh but Eric Trump looks cadaverous. I would assume any money his foundation raises goes towards procuring him the blood of young virgins so that he may live ghoulishly on.
   949. How can it be QPQ if Zonk Says it isn't a QPQ? Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:10 AM (#5716752)
Trump has alienated anyone left of David Duke, so it might be politically very difficult for Democrats to work with him on anything; at this point if he came out against childhood cancer, liberals might start rooting for leukemia. (Moreover, even if Trump signed a deal in blood, they couldn’t trust him.). But from Trump’s side, I don’t think it would be so difficult for him to work with a Democratic Congress. Since he has no principles and even less integrity, he would have no compunction about doing deals with them; the fact of a deal is more important than what it is. (And in any case, regardless of what it was, he would then declare victory and pretend that he got what he had wanted all along.)


Meh, they really shouldn't bother attempting to do any deals with him. They don't need to.

With non-Trump Presidents, you "do deals" with the President to enlist the President to arm-twist, lobby, rally, or otherwise move the needle on votes... How'd that work out for Republicans? The only significant legislation the GOP congress passed was their debacle of a tax bill - and that mainly passed because Trump stayed out of the way.

So - a Democratic house should probably pass legislation their base wants them to pass (and the base needs to realize such legislation almost certainly dies in the Senate). Where they can compromise such stuff enough to get it through the Senate, do so. Some of that legislation - say, some kind of big infrastructure bill - is stuff the D base wants and other people, including Trump have said they want to. They shouldn't shelve such stuff because Trump likes it, of course.

In short, they should probably just ignore Trump for purposes of legislating. There's no upside to engaging with him.
   950. BrianBrianson Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:11 AM (#5716753)

I don't know if anyone' s posted the NYT's 2016 Presidential-election precinct-by-precinct map. It's pretty engrossing.


Hmm, my precinct went 71-22 ... but across the street 71-21. A full three miles from the nearest district that went for Trump.
   951. Tom T Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:14 AM (#5716755)
Pretty much. One of the salient points is that Holmes -- deliberately or luckily -- positioned Theranos not as a medical company but as a Silicon Valley company. Her board of directors had no medical people on it. Her venture capital investors were not people who had historically invested in medical startups; they were people who regularly invested in high-tech startups, and who loved to hear buzzwords like "proactive" and "paradigm."


As part of our work on concussions and repetitive head injury we have worked with way too many "startup" companies that are structured and marketed in the exact same manner. We see a large number of Silicon Valley vets who are jumping into "disruptive" technologies for which there is no known application...but they are CERTAIN they are going to push out the (incomplete) product within six months and sell MILLIONS! Most of the "head impact sensor" companies have been structured in this manner (i1, x2, Simbex, etc.) and even some academics have managed to jump on the bandwagon in this sense (the guys at Case are having 5000 kids wear their new mouthguard sensor --- New! With Galaxy Note 7 batteries IN YOUR MOUTH! --- this year, even though they have no idea what their measurements *mean* in terms of injury).

A long-time biomedical investor remarked sadly on this, as he feels that there will be more instances of Theranos in the near future as folks pursuing production/sales on a 0.5-1 year timeframe are pushing out the (more staid) investors who recognize that it the biomedical fields tend not to work on anything faster than a 3-5 year timeframe.

(We had someone consider working with us on combining our modeling of injury with sensors, but he wanted us to do about $250K of research expenditures before he'd give us any money, and really, really, REALLY couldn't grasp that Universities don't work that way.)
   952. Lassus Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5716757)
Northern New York is Trump everywhere except cities, college towns (Colgate, Hamilton) random areas of northern nowhere by Canada, and Cooperstown.
   953. DavidFoss Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:23 AM (#5716762)
"Leukemia, all bad?" could be pretty darn funny.

Reminds me of one of my favorite clips from the early days of the Colbert Report. Black Death: Was It Really That Bad?
   954. Hot Wheeling American Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5716768)
@KenCuccinelli (President of Senate Conservatives Fund (SCF) & Senate Conservatives Action (SCA). Former Virginia Attorney General.):
2 time National, Division I wrestling champion. 4 time (that's every year folks...) Ohio State High School champion wrestler...

Who better to wrestle the Dems to the ground?

#JimJordan4Speaker !
   955. PepTech Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5716771)
Daily Hypocrisy Update!

OK, the first one isn't hypocrisy, per se, but a common strawman argument:
those election results won't overturn themselves.
Ray either continues to pretend, or actually believes (fears?), that impeachment would result in President Hillary. He is either unwilling or unable to display comprehension that impeachment is a constitutional process that would result in President Pence. See, everyone recognizes that Mike Pence was duly elected along with Donald Trump, and there are no calls to "overturn" the election and install HRC.

On to actual hypocrisy!
Please understand that the next time you call SBB a fake lawyer the above is the epitome of it. You either don't know the facts, can't comprehend what Trump's potential defenses to obstruction might be (and thus why Rosenstein's testimony would be relevant), don't understand what material means -- we've had that problem before -- or you're simply misleading people.
To be fair, the "fake lawyer" trope is way past played out, on all sides; that's not the issue. Today's hypocrisy lies in the bolded bits, asserting subjective opinion as objective fact (see what I did there? It's like a joke!), and berating others for *the exact same things* he himself does on a constant basis.
Recycling unwitty material from two days ago?
Yes, like that. Exeunt.

------------

Strictly speaking, SBB has only been vapid and narcissistic (so far), rather than hypocritical, but since he called out others for narcissism yesterday that will have to do.
They've been written about at length. For quite some time now.
Referring to oneself in the passive voice, assuming whoever has asked this time was present for previous conversations, refusal and/or inability to coherently respond to a simple question in good faith, opting for cryptic over clarification. Pretty much just another day on OTP...
stalky
Apart from the (narcissistic) assumption that one is worth "stalking", the term implies stealth and illegality. The term you're looking for is "hold accountable", for one's own words and actions, in an open and public forum. Like defining what you meant when you said Obama (a Christian who has never been Muslim, nor were any of his parental figures) "embraced Islam to an unhelpful degree". You typed it, what exactly did you mean by it? You must have *some* idea of your thought process. If you misspoke, just say that and we'll move on. If you stand by it, clarify.
   956. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5716773)
I don't know if anyone' s posted the NYT's 2016 Presidential-election precinct-by-precinct map. It's pretty engrossing.
Trump won my current precinct 79-18. In my tiny town, Confederate flags along the main street outnumber American flags 5-2. 79-18 isn't that far off of the 72-28 flag ratio.

In my 2016 precinct, Trump got 14 votes and edged out Gary Johnson for third. (The NYT map doesn't report third party votes, sadly; this Chicago map has my old precinct's data.) The fact that Gary Johnson came in last in a precinct lousy with UChicago economists and business school students, in an election in which it was obvious to everyone that Hillary was going to win the state by about eleventy billion votes, tells me that the Libertarian Party as it currently exists is never going to win anything.

   957. DavidFoss Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5716774)
Apart from the (narcissistic) assumption that one is worth "stalking", the term implies stealth and illegality.

Perhaps he just meant that she had the long and lanky build of a beanstalk.
   958. BrianBrianson Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5716778)
My understanding is that the Black Death was great for the wages of working class folks that survived it.
   959. Hot Wheeling American Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5716779)
   960. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5716780)
David Nieporent replying, #920:
Scott Walker did the best he could by being the first candidate to drop out of the 2016 GOP primaries before anyone had the chance to realize he'd been in them. That was actually a smart political move. Especially when the anti-union money wasn't flooding into his campaign as he'd expected, and when everybody on both sides believed Hillary was probably going to win.
There is nobody, at least not on the GOP side, who believed Hillary was probably going to win -- not until Trump won the nomination. Those of you left of center may have deluded yourselves with absurd notions about how the only reason she lost in 2008 was because Obama was the bestest candidate ever, but everyone else knew how lousy a candidate she was.


Scott Walker bailed from the race in September 2015. At that point, Clinton had led Ted Cruz in 35 of 35 head-to-head polls. Clinton had led Trump in 17 of 19 polls, with one tie. She had led Rubio in 40 of 41 head-to-head polls. Clinton had led Jeb! Bush in 59 of 68 head-to-head polls, with one tie. She'd led Christie in 50 of 54 head-to-head polls. She was 5-for-5 versus Kasich.

The only candidates to have more than a +2% lead on Clinton in any of those polls was Trump, who had two +5% leads but no others, and Christie who got a +3% in late 2013.

If your memory is correct, everybody, at least on the GOP side, must have felt incredibly buoyed by those 14 leads out of 222 polls.
   961. DavidFoss Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:38 AM (#5716782)
My understanding is that the Black Death was great for the wages of working class folks that survived it.

That point actually shows up in the video. :-)
   962. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5716783)
Reminds me of one of my favorite clips from the early days of the Colbert Report. Black Death: Was It Really That Bad?
Didn't watch the clip, but the tag ("The Black Death didn't just make more dead people, it also made less competition for those few live people.") actually contains a lot of truth, so long as we subsume the entirety of the general population collapse in the period from 1315 to about 1440 under the term "Black Death". Labor became scarcer, which increased the opportunities available for the surviving peasants, and caused the first spike in labor costs in basically forever. It also led to the abandonment of a lot of farms and farming communities built on marginal land, because there was more productive land to be had for the taking. Thus a general increase in per-worker agricultural production.

Europe in 1300 had about the maximum population that a Medieval economy could support. There were mass famines before the Black Death, and there's a theory that the Black Death was so bad in part because a large part of the population was chronically malnourished and thus has #### immune systems. It was exceptionally horrible, but the Black Death and other disasters of the period also helped mitigate a lot of problems.

EDIT: A flagon of mead for #958.
   963. Lassus Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5716786)
The NYT map doesn't report third party votes, sadly

Are you sure? One of the random weird areas that voted for Hillary in the sea of Trump was HOGANSBURG, NY (god knows why, maybe the Native American population there?), and the NY Times map does show a similar thing you referenced, Stein edging out Trump.
   964. Spahn Insane Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5716789)
Apart from the (narcissistic) assumption that one is worth "stalking", the term implies stealth and illegality. The term you're looking for is "hold accountable", for one's own words and actions, in an open and public forum. Like defining what you meant when you said Obama (a Christian who has never been Muslim, nor were any of his parental figures) "embraced Islam to an unhelpful degree". You typed it, what exactly did you mean by it? You must have *some* idea of your thought process. If you misspoke, just say that and we'll move on. If you stand by it, clarify.

Hey, give Ray some credit--"embracing" is far less gay than "fellating."
   965. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5716790)
PepTech to Ray, #955:
Recycling unwitty material from two days ago?

Yes, like that. Exeunt.


In retrospect, I kind of love Ray's #918, which went after me for recycling material. I had replied to a post in which he'd said Trump's opponents are trying to overturn an election because they're unhinged, and Ray's comeback was "You're repeating yourself." Clearly he's workshopping some nine-dimensional meta comedy... like "The Office," but less self-aware.
   966. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5716798)

If your memory is correct, everybody, at least on the GOP side, must have felt incredibly buoyed by those 14 leads out of 222 polls.
What person thinks general election polls in September of the year before the election are meaningful? All you're measuring is name recognition, and obviously Hillary had a massive lead on all the Republicans running at the time (except, of course, Trump) in that category.
   967. PepTech Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5716800)
Clearly he's workshopping some nine-dimensional meta comedy... like "The Office," but less self-aware.
Or more self-aware, depending.

One of the many hypocritical traits of Ray is that he can be pretty damn self-aware funny (as in #918), yet obstinately un-self-aware virtue signal (most every other post), sometimes at the Same Time. It could all be a masterpiece performance of Kaufmanian proportio - no, it couldn't.

ETA: Of course, we all, Daily Hypocrisy Update included, recycle unwitty material. How's THAT for meta? ;)

@964: It's SBB that embraces. Ray fellates, but does not holster.
   968. BDC Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5716801)
One of the random weird areas that voted for Hillary in the sea of Trump was HOGANSBURG, NY (god knows why, maybe the Native American population there?)


North of Amarillo, in the Texas panhandle, is Moore County, which voted 75-21 for Trump. Surrounding counties were 86 or 89% Trump. But there's one Moore County precinct that went 74-17 for Clinton. Come to find this is a town of 3,000 called (really) Cactus, Texas, and it's 96% Hispanic.
   969. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5716804)
David N, #966:
What person thinks general election polls in September of the year before the election are meaningful?

Scott Walker.
   970. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5716805)
Are you sure? One of the random weird areas that voted for Hillary in the sea of Trump was HOGANSBURG, NY (god knows why, maybe the Native American population there?), and the NY Times map does show a similar thing you referenced, Stein edging out Trump.
Well, I'll be damned, it does show Stein's vote in the old 4th Ward, 27th Precinct.
   971. How can it be QPQ if Zonk Says it isn't a QPQ? Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:13 AM (#5716806)
Scott Walker bailed from the race in September 2015. At that point, Clinton had led Ted Cruz in 35 of 35 head-to-head polls. Clinton had led Trump in 17 of 19 polls, with one tie. She had led Rubio in 40 of 41 head-to-head polls. Clinton had led Jeb! Bush in 59 of 68 head-to-head polls, with one tie. She'd led Christie in 50 of 54 head-to-head polls. She was 5-for-5 versus Kasich.

The only candidates to have more than a +2% lead on Clinton in any of those polls was Trump, who had two +5% leads but no others, and Christie who got a +3% in late 2013.

If your memory is correct, everybody, at least on the GOP side, must have felt incredibly buoyed by those 14 leads out of 222 polls.


I think the problem, though, with pre-convention - much less pre-primary - H2Hs is that Clinton was broadly assumed to be the Democratic nominee... while the GOP side was broadly competitive.

Subconsciously, consciously, or a little of both - when one side has a presumptive nominee, the votes have already coalesced while on the other - I think there's a fair bit of "my guy or bust!"

Who knows - as someone who very much did think in 2016 that Trump was Clinton's best path to victory and was likely wrong, maybe only Trump (and his Russian friends) knew how to properly stoke the Clinton hate.

So... I'm not disagreeing the conclusion - just that I don't think the H2H, pre-primary polls are good evidence of it.
   972. Greg K Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5716807)
More important than the working classes, the Black Death was also a boon to lawyers as all those inheritances didn't sort themselves out.

It is interesting how time heals all wounds. Economic and social historians are free to explore all the ramifications of the Black Death without fear of being accused of celebrating mass death. I think you need a generation or two of distance to pull that off.

On a somewhat related note, I was at a conference a few months ago where a historian was presenting some work on Korean comfort women in the Second World War. He had some photos of comfort women being liberated from Japanese camps and was comparing them to the image of the comfort women in Korean monuments today. One of the questions that came up was whether there was an ethical concern about publicly sharing photos of comfort women (who quite obviously at the time did not want to be photographed).

Which I guess is another issue 14th century historians don't need to worry about.
   973. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:15 AM (#5716808)
A long-time biomedical investor remarked sadly on this, as he feels that there will be more instances of Theranos in the near future as folks pursuing production/sales on a 0.5-1 year timeframe are pushing out the (more staid) investors who recognize that it the biomedical fields tend not to work on anything faster than a 3-5 year timeframe.
One of the points made by Carreyrou is that Holmes' conduct would've been more standard and a lot less scandalous if it were just a tech product rather than, you know, actual real-life healthcare.

It's quite common in Silicon Valley to put out a half-baked buggy piece of hardware or software, and then iterate over time; 2.0 actually has mostly the full functionality that was promised in 1.0, and 3.0 then works out the bugs in that functionality. (The first iPhone did not have something as basic as cut-and-paste, nor was there an App Store. Plus it was EDGE, which was slower than Pony Express.) And some customers want to use cutting-edge stuff and are okay with crashes and such, while some want to wait until it matures. But Theranos was selling blood testing. For people to use to test their blood to see whether they were sick and what treatments they needed. It's really not okay if it kinda, sorta works, and then in version 2.0 or 3.0 you'll actually get accurate results.
   974. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5716810)
The soft bigotry of low expectations. We're going to see a lot more of this kind of disturbing rationalization soon if the Cohen claims hold up.:
One can see the ground already shifting in the defenses of Trump. Now his defenders deny that working cooperatively with Russians to obtain Russian dirt on Clinton amounts to collusion, or that such a thing is bad at all. “Look, I don’t think that it’s bad if campaigns are turning to foreign governments for dirt,” asserts Andrew McCarthy on Fox News, “It’s not collusion. It’s not something that’s impeachable; it’s icky, but that’s what this is.”
Yes, although "So what if he did it; it's not illegal" is not actually a new defense; people have been using it all along.

Nobody, admittedly, has gone as far as Ray's "Trump had a moral obligation to collude," though.
   975. BDC Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5716811)
the Black Death was also a boon to lawyers


Plus it inspired the Decameron!
   976. Greg K Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5716816)
Plus it inspired the Decameron!

I'm starting to see the merits of the anti-Vaxxer movement!
   977. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:27 AM (#5716817)
Note the inherent racism of "Black Death".
   978. BrianBrianson Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5716818)
One of the random weird areas that voted for Hillary in the sea of Trump was HOGANSBURG, NY (god knows why, maybe the Native American population there?)


Yeah, you can see all the big reservations on the map for the same reason.
   979. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5716820)
What person thinks general election polls in September of the year before the election are meaningful?

Scott Walker.
No; Walker dropped out because he wasn't getting traction with the GOP.
   980. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5716821)

More important than the working classes, the Black Death was also a boon to lawyers
Woohoo!
   981. zenbitz Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5716823)
I *too* was surprised that my district...

Oh who am I kidding, we went 91-5% for Clinton.
   982. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5716824)
More important than the working classes, the Black Death was also a boon to lawyers

Woohoo!


Game recognize game.
   983. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5716827)
I live in a very Democratic area, so I was surprised to see that my precinct was only 51-43 Hillary. (But totally surrounded by other Hillary precincts.)
   984. dlf Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5716838)
It's quite common in Silicon Valley to put out a half-baked buggy piece of hardware or software, and then iterate over time; 2.0 actually has mostly the full functionality that was promised in 1.0, and 3.0 then works out the bugs in that functionality.


"Move fast and break things" was a motto at Facebook. Heck the entire "Agile" methodology is based around "fail fast, fail often."

Northern New York is Trump everywhere except cities, college towns (Colgate, Hamilton) ...


Lets go 'Gate! But I've never quite understood why Colgate is in Hamilton while Hamilton is in Clinton. However, that might point out why Hamilton voted for Clinton.

   985. Tom T Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5716839)
But Theranos was selling blood testing. For people to use to test their blood to see whether they were sick and what treatments they needed. It's really not okay if it kinda, sorta works, and then in version 2.0 or 3.0 you'll actually get accurate results.


Exactly.

We had a phone conversation with a VP of Marketing for Vicis (helmets). She comment ed that the company agreed they needed to do the kind of testing we have been advocating (brain health before/after), but they "...need to sell about a million units before doing so." In other words, "We want to market the hell out of our claims of increased safety before we attempt to validate those claims, because what could go wrong?"

ETA: Wish like heck I had recorded that conversation....
   986. OCF Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5716840)
My precinct was 61-33 Clinton; the two very near neighbor precincts were 55-39 and 58-35 Clinton. The latter two are more or less typical of the mostly-white eastern parts of the city of Long Beach; the mostly-nonwhite other parts of Long Beach are much bluer than that. You can get to some Trump precincts just across the Orange County line in Los Alamitos or Seal Beach.
   987. Davo Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5716842)
Whoa, there’s a lot going on in this story. It’s a mashup of Shawshank and Black Mirror:

Idaho prison inmates exploited tablet vulnerability to steal $225,000 in credits

A group of 364 prison inmates housed across a series of Idaho corrections facilities collectively stole nearly $225,000 worth of digital credits by exploiting a vulnerability in tablets provided by a company called JPay, according to the Associated Press. JPay is a private company that provides digital services like email, music, games, and money transfer to prison inmates.

JPay provides inmates with access to the outside world, and prisons often adopt its services to help with rehabilitation and education.

(...)The company appears to earn revenue in part by charging inmates for email use and digital media downloads, using a credit system to do so. “Having one of these tablets helps your loved ones pass the time, keep engaged and stay connected to you,” reads the company’s product page for the JP5 tablet.

By “intentionally exploiting a vulnerability within JPay to improperly increase their JPay account balances,” hundreds of inmates were credit their own accounts, Idaho Department of Correction spokesman Jeff Ray explained in a statement.


Here’s an article about the company itself:

Now, many private companies are expanding to sell digital services to incarcerated people and their families. As they do so, companies break into a market with little existing regulation—which, some argue, leaves room for exploitation.

While most commerce within prisons revolves around food and hygiene products, a Prison Policy Initiative report on prison commissaries, published in May, found that digital sales are the "future of commissary." The report also argues that digital sales serve as a new way to "shift the costs of corrections to incarcerated people" by monetizing opportunities for communication, education, and entertainment.

Pump that capitalism right into my veins, baby.
   988. GordonShumway Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5716843)
My current precinct in Brooklyn Heights: 87% v. 6.7%, Clinton v. Trump.
My old precinct in Park Slope (where zonk's brother's restaurant is located): 95% v. 2.3%, Clinton v. Trump.

I'm pretty surprised by how lopsided the results were.
   989. zenbitz Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5716844)
Actually I put in my zipcode not my address, 91% was a neighboring district. Mine was 88%-8.5%. About 25 votes for DT.
   990. PepTech Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5716845)
So Cohen is claiming Trump had foreknowledge of the Trump Tower meeting, and Trump is double-dog-daring him to come out with another recording. It bears repeating that for any other administration in history, this would be a Huge Deal. But because Orange is the New Bleak:

1) Cohen's a weasel, who cares what he says, or taped
2) It wasn't illegal anyway
3) Trump wasn't under *oath* when he repeatedly denied foreknowledge.
- 3A) He was morally obligated to obfuscate.
- 3B) Lying < Perjury
4) HRC WAS WORSE!!!!!11!1#!!

Let's just watch this instead....
   991. . Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:03 PM (#5716851)
It bears repeating that for any other administration in history, this would be a Huge Deal.


Citation needed.

The counter to that utterly unproven hypothesis is simple and straightforward: The Clinton campaign colluded with Russia in the pursuit of electoral advantage, and it's not remotely a "Huge Deal."
   992. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:06 PM (#5716853)

991: TL;DR: "Things that happened only in a troll's lies are not a huge deal."
   993. . Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5716855)
991: TL;DR: "Things that happened only in a troll's lies are not a huge deal."


If you were a "real lawyer," you'd understand.

But instead you're a mere pitchman to your target demographic, and so you don't.

One can only assume that you're swift enough to understand that they don't really "agree" with you, as much as they see in you a kindred TDS spirit -- but that actually remains in some doubt.

   994. OCF Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5716856)
I've lived at my current address for over 30 years. Checking other places I've lived in my lifetime:

Bartlesville, OK: 74-21 Trump (with near-neighbor precincts at 68-27 and 69-24 Trump)
Houston: 87-7 Clinton
Chicago: 91-3 Clinton (or maybe 90-4; I lived in several places there)
Madison, WI: 78-12 Clinton
Austin: 84-9 Clinton

If you make the rounds of higher education, ...
   995. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5716859)
Apparently, the AFB where I work went for Clinton by 1,110-125. That ... is not what I expected.

   996. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5716860)

If you were a "real lawyer," you'd understand.
Sure. But I'm not a "real lawyer." I'm a real lawyer. (People can look me up and everything.)

Also, if you re-read 992, you'll see that I did understand: you were lying/trolling.
   997. . Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5716862)
Sure. But I'm not a "real lawyer." I'm a real lawyer. (People can look me up and everything.)


So? That doesn't negate a thing I wrote. You still seem fascinated by the idea that possessing a law license means you don't routinely write inane things about law or politics. That's contrary to logic, as well as empiricism. Many people who possess law licenses do.

I'm sure the target demo is impressed by your possession of a law license. Real lawyers aren't.(*)

Also, if you re-read 992, you'll see that I did understand: you were lying/trolling.


OK, I did. You don't understand.

(*) Nor, frankly, are real lawyers particularly impressed by "looking you up." So why you keep pointing to that remains the proverbial mystery best left to the reader. It's pure target demo material.
   998. Lassus Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:24 PM (#5716863)
But I've never quite understood why Colgate is in Hamilton while Hamilton is in Clinton.

Hopefully to troll parents from Long Island and New Jersey into getting hopelessly and nervously lost in the rolling farmlands, because that's been entertaining for my entire life.
   999. PepTech Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:24 PM (#5716864)
Please note: There's no Daily Hypocrisy Update on weekends, so SBB is declaring war early! You go grrrrl!!
Citation needed
For the claim that a President^ being caught in a lie about brokering a meeting with a hostile foreign power during the campaign is a Huge Deal? Pass.

Note: HRC does not now, and never will have, an Administration. Anything illegal she did or did not do has no bearing or exculpatory effect^^ on Trump's misdeeds, in any court. Real lawyers understand this.

^ He was President when he lied about it.
^^ You can look it up if you don't know what it means.
   1000. DavidFoss Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:28 PM (#5716867)
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