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Monday, July 09, 2018

OTP 2018 July 9: Why It’s Hard to ‘Stick to Sports’

A quote attributed to the late U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren reads: “I always turn to the sports pages first, which records people’s accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man’s failures.”

But even in Warren’s lifetime, the sports page was full of things that moved outside the realm of sports accomplishments into the political world of page one: Jackie Robinson breaking the baseball color line, Muhammad Ali’s successful fight to overturn his criminal conviction for refusing military service in the Vietnam War, Tommie Smith and John Carlos’ black power salute from the victory stand of the 1968 Summer Olympics, the enactment of Title IX to expand opportunity for girls in sports, and Curt Flood’s lawsuit to break baseball’s reserve clause.

 

The mix of politics and sports wasn’t unique to Warren’s time. The two worlds have never been, never were, and never will be as separate as many imagine or would like them to be. Sports isn’t immune from capital-P political oversight and opinions, which grow out of the small-p politics about how we as people organize our lives and societies. In other words, angrily telling sports media figures and athletes themselves to “stick to sports”—a popular demand these days when sports and politics mix on social media—is an impossible ask.


(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 09, 2018 at 08:02 AM | 1010 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   201. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:00 PM (#5707757)
Why Trump opponents playing by Trump rules in the Trump era continues to be such a controversial thing is quite beyond my comprehension.


Controversial? Meh. Wrong? Absolutely.

I hold myself to a higher standard than Trump holds himself to. I want my side to behave with much more class than the other side does. Unlike the GOP I don't want my party to be Nazi-curious and White Supremacist friendly. If winning means endless lies, appeals to only the worst in people, and threats to "Lock her up" then no thanks.

Fortunately winning doesn't mean any of that. Obama won, twice even, without all that nonsense. Heck in a long time the Democrats have only lost the popular vote once, and that was to an incumbent fighting a war after a massive terroristic attack against the US.

Democrats being mean to Republicans didn't cause Trump to win, don't cause Trump or the rest of the GOP to act out the way they do. And it is politics, not beanbag, so there is a place to be mean, to throw your drowning opponent an anchor. But still, I hold myself and the politicians I support to a higher standard than the GOP is willing to hold their politicians. They are willing to compromise everything of value, I am not.
   202. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5707762)
The bigger challenge is that batshit craziness remarks from the MSM

Says the man who regularly links approvingly to Fox News, The Daily Caller, National Review and The Washington Examiner.

If you want to find substantive fault with an article or column I post form those publications or others, feel free to fire away. Otherwise, your comment is substance-free and just plain sad.


If I started posting every article or tweet I see from HuffPost or MoveOn**, would you bother to respond to their "substance"? I haven't noticed that's been your m.o. around here.

Here's a good rule of thumb: When you link to a conservative who begins by acknowledging that Trump is a racist, a serial liar, and impossibly corrupt, then that person has a certain amount of credibility to go from there. I'll respond to conservative critiques by actual conservatives, but not to critiques by Trump flunkies who try to masquerade themselves as something they're not.

And remind me when you ever get around to addressing the "substance" of Trump's serial racism, lies, and corruption. You tut-tut about them about as convincingly as a hit man confesses his sins to a priest, and then you just go on parroting the party line as usual. It's been like that since the day he won the election.

** Of course for me to do that I'd have to start visiting those sites myself.

   203. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5707764)
Why Trump opponents playing by Trump rules in the Trump era continues to be such a controversial thing is quite beyond my comprehension.


"People shouldn't act that way. Hey, look at me, I'm acting that way! Wheeeeeee!"


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You do you.

I've got no problem being governed by the civil, the politic, the norms, and those who prefer decorum. Indeed, I prefer it.

I'm simply recognizing the basic fact there are a lot of Clappers and Juannitys in the world who don't have such principles. Exclude all of us from future governance, fine by me.

You and David Axelrod are welcome to work out a better post-Trump world.
   204. Greg K Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5707765)
I delivered pizza's back in my pants wearing teenage days (well at least when I delivered pizza's I wore pants) and the place I worked at had a teacher that everyone hated who ordered all the time. I just pretended I did not recognize him when I delivered and he never acknowledged me. After I quit the job someone suggested that I could have made money if I took donations to do something to the pizza. Definitely would have made more than he tipped.

In high school there was one English teacher everyone absolutely hated. One time she asked the class for a volunteer to go get her some coffee from the staff room. One of my friends (who was a favourite target of hers) eagerly raised his hand. He came back a few minutes later with the coffee and a massive grin on his face. I have no idea what she was thinking.
   205. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5707769)
197


I wasn't saying that at all. What I was saying was that when you make no bones about your distaste for certain races/classes/ethnic groups, you open yourself up to some backlash.

IOW, don't say stupid, racist #### in public and you won't get flipped off, or feel the need to worry about or question the provenance of your evening repast.


But you do get that Miller had reason to suspect his food was tainted?

And what "stupid, racist #### in public" did Miller say?


https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stephen_Miller


Am I the only one who is sick and tired of being told to pick up my trash when we have plenty of janitors who are paid to do it for us. Stump speech while running for student government at Santa Monica High School (200?)


One way in which feminists try to remedy the disparity is to legally mandate paid leave for female employees who give birth, even if a company is struggling to stay afloat. Such laws provide powerful incentives for bosses-male or female-not to hire women to begin with. Of course, it's easy to support such legislation until you end up getting laid off because your boss was losing too much money by paying absent employees. Opinion column entitled Sorry feminists (22 November 2005)


Shows like Queer As Folk, The "L" Word, Will & Grace and Sex and the City, all do their part to promote alternative lifestyles and erode traditional values. Opinion column entitled Hollywood and the culture war (11 January 2006)



Acosta: What the President is proposing here does not sound like it's in keeping with American tradition when it comes to immigration. The Statue of Liberty says, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." It doesn't say anything about speaking English or being a computer programmer. Aren't you trying to change what it means to an immigrant coming into this country if you're telling them you have to speak English? Can't people learn to speak English when they get here?

Miller:
Well, first of all, right now it's a requirement to be naturalized you have to speak English, so the notion that speaking English wouldn't be a part of the immigration system would actually be very ahistorical. Secondly, I don't want to get off into a whole thing about history here, but the Statue of Liberty is a symbol of liberty enlightening the world, it's a symbol of American liberty lighting the world. The poem that you're referring to was added later, is not actually part of the original Statue of Liberty.


And let's not even get into the fact that he's the main architect of the whole child-separation fiasco and (twice-failed) travel ban.
   206. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5707779)
NBC's Capitol Hill reporter eventually deleted this tweet but the damage has been done...

BREAKING: Looks like my hunch was right. The fix *was* in, as NBC now confirms. This was a backroom deal that Trump deliberately hid from the American people by pretending he was vetting candidates. He *wasn't* vetting candidates; he *got* this vacancy by making a secret promise.
She passed along idle gossip as a serious source, which of course turned out to be fake news.

Gee, it's a total mystery why the MSM is so reviled these days.
   207. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5707784)
And let's not even get into the fact that he's the main architect of the whole child-separation fiasco and (twice-failed) travel ban.

Yeah, but how many of those parents and children were Jews? In JE's vision, Latino parents and children are just collateral damage in the service of a higher cause.
   208. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:18 PM (#5707786)
But you do get that Miller had reason to suspect his food was tainted?


Conspiracy theory nutjobs gonna be paranoid loons, no matter what. (If they soiled the food, they wouldn't have called out the fact by flipping him off. Also, the server doesn't make the goddamned plate, you idiot.)
   209. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5707791)
Gee, it's a total mystery why the MSM is so reviled these days.


Is it because a cult leader has spent two years calling them enemies of the people?

What prize do I win?
   210. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5707792)
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stephen_Miller
So the notion that immigrants should know English is "stupid, racist ####." That's batshit crazy talk, Charlie, since Miller is right: English proficiency is still deemed a requirement for naturalization.
And let's not even get into the fact that he's the main architect of the whole child-separation fiasco and (twice-failed) travel ban.
No, let's.

Miller deserves condemnation for showing incompetence, not racism, in the drafting of the first two travel ban attempts. And once more, child separation may be awful policy but what Obama initiated and Trump put on steroids is hardly bigoted.
   211. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5707795)
Is it because a cult leader has spent two years calling them enemies of the people?
Right, the MSM was a well-oiled, bias-free machine before Trump started mocking them.

And maybe you can explain how Trump's various scoldings of the Fourth Estate were the proximate cause of the NBC News reporter shitting the bed like that?
   212. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5707797)
And maybe you can explain how Trump's various scoldings was the proximate cause of the NBC News reporter shitting the bed like that?


OOOO!!!! I know this one, too.

Is it because 'scolding' people automatically makes them free to do the opposite out of spite?

You know, like Trump won because the mean liberal elites were scolding people?

The prizes are really piling up!
   213. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5707798)
Yeah, but how many of those parents and children were Jews? In JE's vision, Latino parents and children are just collateral damage in the service of a higher cause.
Folks from Central America are desperately trying to enter Trump's America and you're still trying to compare POTUS to Hitler and his treatment of the Jews? Wow, you're embarrassing yourself more than usual today.
   214. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:29 PM (#5707800)
Is it because 'scolding' people automatically makes them free to do the opposite out of spite?
Wow, keyboard hero, you're running a close second behind Andy.
   215. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5707802)
The Guardian asks the next big question - Will Trump Get A 3rd Supreme Court Pick? I doubt Ginsburg & Breyer will both serve until 2024, so likely yes if re-elected, and maybe even if he isn't.
   216. dlf Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5707803)
And what "stupid, racist #### in public" did Miller say?


https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stephen_Miller ...


Stupidity =/= racism. Using the latter term to disagree with a position when that position itself isn't racist in application or intent debases the debate.
   217. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:34 PM (#5707805)
Wow, keyboard hero, you're running a close second behind Andy.


Second?

As a keyboard hero, I think I've earned the right to demand an audit of the scorecards.
   218. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5707807)
The Guardian asks the next big question - Will Trump Get A 3rd Supreme Court Pick? I doubt Ginsburg & Breyer will both serve until 2024, so likely yes if re-elected, and maybe even if he isn't.
I said this while Scalia was still alive and I'll repeat it now: If conservatives truly care about the future of the Court, they'll confront Thomas and urge him to watch his food intake and either hit the gym or do hot yoga.
   219. dlf Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5707808)
... similar to what the Soldiers & Sailors Relief Act provides for the military in some cases.


Showing your age man. Soldiers and Sailors was replaced with the Servicemembers' Civil Relief Act fifteen years ago when a metric crap-tonne of additional indirect financial benefits were added for active duty folks.
   220. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5707810)

The Guardian asks the next big question - Will Trump Get A 3rd Supreme Court Pick? I doubt Ginsburg & Breyer will both serve until 2024, so likely yes if re-elected, and maybe even if he isn't.
I bet Barrett gets that one. Especially if Ginsburg is the one retiring.
   221. Smitty* Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5707812)
If conservatives truly care about the future of the Court, they'll confront Thomas and urge him to watch his food intake and either hit the gym or do hot yoga.


Two weeks with Jim Jupiter should do
   222. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5707815)
If conservatives truly care about the future


This is the modern day, Trump era equivalent of the "....walk into a bar" joke frame. It can work on so many levels.
   223. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:45 PM (#5707816)
If conservatives truly care about the future...

They might stop asking why it can't be 1950 all the time.



   224. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:45 PM (#5707818)
@swin24:
When someone in the press corrects or retracts something & folks are like “this is why Trump calls you fake news,” it is self-evidently not actually why he calls people fake news, but w/e who cares
   225. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5707822)
When someone in the press corrects or retracts something & folks are like “this is why Trump calls you fake news,” it is self-evidently not actually why he calls people fake news, but w/e who cares
With all due respect to Swin, who's one of the better journalists in DC, there's an avalanche of this #### -- and the retractions only get 1/100th of the play as the original tweet. Accordingly, reporters should treat tweets no differently than the articles they file. (Heck, maybe we've reached the point where some journalists should have an editor review tweets before they get posted.)

Also, Swin neglects to note how MSM mistakes like the one this morning appear to go against the GOP 19 times out of 20.
   226. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5707825)
With all due respect to Swin, who's one of the better journalists in DC, there's an avalanche of this #### -- and the retractions only get 1/100th of the play as the original tweet so reporters should treat tweets no differently than the articles they file. Also, Swin neglects to note how MSM mistakes like the one this morning appear to go against the GOP 19 times out of 20.


Man... sure is a good thing the GOP's cult leader doesn't avail himself of twitter.

I mean, can you imagine?
   227. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:54 PM (#5707827)
I said this while Scalia was still alive and I'll repeat it now: If conservatives truly care about the future of the Court, they'll confront Thomas and urge him to watch his food intake and either hit the gym or do hot yoga.

Thomas just turned 70, hardly old for a Supreme Court Justice. He may be a bit stout, but not remarkably so, and he's actually something of an outdoorsman. I doubt he has any current plans to retire, and even a second Trump term might be a bit too early, although it would probably get him thinking about whether he'd do another 8 years beyond that if the election results were not to his liking.
   228. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5707828)
Man... sure is a good thing the GOP's cult leader doesn't avail himself of twitter.

I mean, can you imagine?
Keep wrestling with the pig, zonk, and we'll check back with you in 2024.
   229. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2018 at 01:58 PM (#5707830)
Keep wrestling with the pig, zonk, and we'll check back with you in 2024.

You love it when the MSM messes up, even when the correction is quick and fair. It means you tell everyone to ignore them completely and make up your own version of events.

'You know why I do it? I do it to discredit you all and demean you all so that when you write negative stories about me no one will believe you.' -- Donald Trump
   230. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5707838)
If I were Miller, well, first I'd probably kill myself

*bites lip*
   231. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5707839)
Also, Swin neglects to note how MSM mistakes like the one this morning appear to go against the GOP 19 times out of 20.


Show your math Juan.
   232. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5707840)
Keep wrestling with the pig, zonk, and we'll check back with you in 2024.


He absently said, before returning to his primary focus of fending off any who dare attack the pig while gobbling down its mana #### with an Oliver Twistian 'please sir, can I have some more'.
   233. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5707842)
Also, Swin neglects to note how MSM mistakes like the one this morning appear to go against the GOP 19 times out of 20.

Show your math Juan.


He did all the math he's gonna do in December of 2016 and he ain't doing no more.
   234. Traderdave Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:11 PM (#5707843)

Thomas just turned 70, hardly old for a Supreme Court Justice. He may be a bit stout, but not remarkably so, and he's actually something of an outdoorsman.


Sitting for hours in a Red Roof Inn on wheels makes one an "outdoorsman?"


   235. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5707844)
Show your math Juan.


It's just a couple of inches that he has to swallow, really. Small hands.
   236. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5707849)
Sitting for hours in a Red Roof Inn on wheels makes one an "outdoorsman?"


In Clapper's world Clarence's fat lethargic ass is out wrestling bears shirtless with Putin. Actually, Clapper jacks off to that fantasy regularly.
   237. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5707854)
*bites lip*
Oh, look, sh!tbag showed up. Hey sh!tbag!
   238. perros Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:22 PM (#5707858)

Yes, but it's not so simple anymore. A huge part of the Republican Party is now poor white racists. I'm not sure that they outnumber us monetarily anymore.


Reading this thread, I try to remember nobody cares about what Stupid White Men think about politics on a baseball website, and temper my response... Well, at least 'til Miserlou assaults a GOP Congressman..

We're not merely fighting with Trump tactics with stuff like this, but unwittingly signing up for a warped Trump reality show that accepts his premises. I know it's a joke, but breathing a sigh of relief when instead of acting in deranged fashion, Trump follows the rightwing playbook and fufills a 40-year strategy is just what the GOP ordered.

And you wonder why the likes of Clapper and Jason are fully onboard lock, stock and barrel?

Let's hope the leadership of the Democratic Party is smarter...
   239. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5707861)
Sitting for hours in a Red Roof Inn on wheels makes one an "outdoorsman?"

No, but that isn't typical of most recreational vehicle owners. Folks who go to National & State Parks usually take advantage of their surroundings, and from what I've heard Thomas is more in that group than the [much smaller] group who never budge from their campsite.
   240. perros Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5707863)
The redneck link was pretty good, Sam. Poor white trash are not the enemy.
   241. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:25 PM (#5707868)
And you wonder why the likes of Clapper and Jason are fully onboard lock, stock and barrel?


Not at all.
   242. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5707871)
Poor white trash are not the enemy.


Actually, most of them are. The RR folks are still easily the minority of the demographic, and you well know it. Poor white trash are authoritarian and racist shits, 9 out of 10 times.
   243. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5707874)
You love it when the MSM messes up, even when the correction is quick and fair. It means you tell everyone to ignore them completely and make up your own version of events.
Yeah, and these glaring errors oh so rare, right? RIGHT?
The press' credibility problem took a turn for the worse this year.

Chalk it up to bias, sloppiness, or sheer panic in response to the election of Donald Trump, but the bottom line for 2017 is that there was a shocking decline in the quality and reliability of political journalism.

Instead of adjusting adeptly to Trump's easy relationship with the truth and his tendency to abuse members of the news media, a significant number of political journalists and commentators tripped over themselves to repeat every bit of gossip, thinly sourced claim and half-cocked rumor.

These stories fell short of the most basic function of political journalism in that they failed to provide readers with a clear and indisputably accurate picture of what is really going on at the White House and Congress. These botched reports also further diminished the public's already dwindling trust in the press.

BTW, do these mess-ups include or not include sleeping with sources? I can't recall.

And again, the irresponsible tweeting is becoming menace-like. An increasing number of journalists shouldn't be allowed to tweet anything other than their sleeve length, lest they run it by an editor first.
   244. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5707876)
BTW, do these mess-ups include or not include sleeping with your sources?


What an odd thing to call your hand and a picture of Trump.
   245. perros Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5707877)
he's actually something of an outdoorsman.


Who do you think hss the bigger porn stash, Thomas or Hideki Matsui?
   246. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5707881)
Yeah, and these glaring errors oh so rare, right? RIGHT?
Right wing nutter media outlet critical of non-right wing nutter news sources. Film at 11.
And again, the irresponsible tweeting is becoming menace-like. An increasing number of journalists shouldn't be allowed to tweet anything other than their sleeve length, lest they run it by an editor first.
It's OK for Jason's cult leader to post verifiable outright lies, but it's completely irresponsible for a journalist to tweet something unverified, then issue a correction when it turns out they're wrong. Noted.
   247. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:40 PM (#5707884)
Daniel Nichanian:
Boston is considering enabling non-citizens to vote in municipal elections. That'd be a big step for democratic inclusion, which some Md. & Calif. localities have recently taken
I briefly wrote about efforts to give noncitizens a voice in local elections in my 'Voting Rights Manifesto' last year:
Today's left is so cute. They seem to have lost interest in winning POTUS elections ever again, huh?
   248. perros Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:40 PM (#5707885)
Actually, most of them are. The RR folks are still easily the minority of the demographic, and you well know it. Poor white trash are authoritarian and racist shits, 9 out of 10 times.


They are not driving the bus. Hell, most of 'em don't vote. They're patsies on their best day. Demonizing and scapegoating the lumpen warms the cackles of the one percent's hearts.

   249. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5707890)
Demonizing and scapegoating the lumpen warms the cackles of the one percent's hearts.


Rope's reusable.
   250. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5707892)
Today's left is so cute. They seem to have lost interest in winning POTUS elections ever again, huh?
Very convincing. I must have missed the part where you made a good argument about why permanent resident non-citizens should not be allowed to vote for things like city council and, say, school board in districts where their citizen children are students. I'll keep looking.
   251. perros Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5707895)
Srul, as usual, hammered the nail flush upthread. The top dogs have little to worry about.
   252. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5707900)
It's OK for Jason's cult leader to post verifiable outright lies

Only Trump can be Trump. It's bizarre. A lot of people are waiting for some sort of 'have you no sense of decency' moment, but it may never come.
   253. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5707901)
We're not merely fighting with Trump tactics with stuff like this, but unwittingly signing up for a warped Trump reality show that accepts his premises. I know it's a joke, but breathing a sigh of relief when instead of acting in deranged fashion, Trump follows the rightwing playbook and fufills a 40-year strategy is just what the GOP ordered.

And you wonder why the likes of Clapper and Jason are fully onboard lock, stock and barrel?


I don't wonder why at all.

To the extent there are any unknowns with the likes of them, or they provoke even the most modest of curiosity - I do sometimes wonder what they think is next for them.

The Trumpkins - every last on of them, Jaunnity, Ray, Clapper, etc - have no shortage of opinions...errr... 'concerns'... about the left and how the left reacts to Trump.

But in all the OTP posts, I don't think I've ever heard so much as a peep about what Trump means to the GOP. I mean, clearly - Trump has the Republican base in his back pocket. Yes, yes, you can nitpick a few low info voters here or there blah blah.

Doesn't change the fact that in a field full of Republicans of all sorts - Trump won a clear plurality. The GOP base loves him. He's exactly what they always wanted. He's the culmination of 25 years of AM radio, Fox News, and all the rest. The guy who finally refers to immigrants as infesters. The guy who finally doesn't bother ever admitting error or apologizing while simultaneously insisting every enemy should be locked up, if only they had the guts to investigate.

He is the golem apotheosis of the GOP Id.

So, let's play the same silly game with the GOP.

What happens after Trump, regardless of how "after" Trump comes to pass... the next Republican just goes back to Mitt Romney? It's that easy, is it?

Look around at the primaries for other offices - I linked to the Georgia run-off on the first page... Who can out-crazy who... who has the bigger gun.... who drives the biggest, biggest immigrant capacity truck...

Tell me, Trumpkins... What do YOU do 'after' Trump? You think all those YUGE crowds chanting LOCK HER UP! or any other sundry incivilities are going to just let you (assuming just for a moment you care) bring about some return to that civility you claim to treasure?

Spare me.
   254. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5707903)
And again, the irresponsible tweeting is becoming menace-like. An increasing number of journalists shouldn't be allowed to tweet anything other than their sleeve length, lest they run it by an editor first.

It's OK for Jason's cult leader to post verifiable outright lies, but it's completely irresponsible for a journalist to tweet something unverified, then issue a correction when it turns out they're wrong. Noted.

It's been noted for the past 20 months that Trump's lies/racism/corruption are completely unimportant to JE and his white nationalist allies of convenience.** He won't change gears unless Trump moves the embassy back to Tel Aviv and starts deporting Israelis who've overstayed their visas.

** Take away the votes of racists and xenophobes and Trump couldn't win an election in the reddest congressional district in the country.
   255. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5707906)
Only Trump can be Trump. It's bizarre.
It's not bizarre in the least. If you or the MSM claim to be purveyors of truth and must call attention to Trump's lies because, you know, democracy dies in darkness or something, then act like it. Don't post fake, grossly inaccurate, or ridiculously one-sided articles and columns about Trump because you so wish the contents to be true.
   256. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5707907)
210

Miller deserves condemnation for showing incompetence, not racism, in the drafting of the first two travel ban attempts. And once more, child separation may be awful policy but what Obama initiated and Trump put on steroids is hardly bigoted.


Fair enough points.

But the incompetence would come from a baseline premise, would it not? "The terrorists we've encountered came from these countries. Therefore, everyone from these countries is a terrorist." That's how it came across when it was attempted to be implemented, regardless if the intent behind it was benign -- which I sincerely doubt it was.

As for the child separation issue, yes, Obama put it in the law, but it was never being enforced, because most in the Obama administration -- no less a figure than his DHS -- knew that ripping crying toddlers away from their mom was bad (and bad for) business. That policy could have been continued and the country would have been no worse off for it.
   257. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5707909)
Don't post fake, grossly inaccurate, or ridiculously one-sided articles and columns about Trump because you so wish the contents to be true.
Says the guy who never came across an article from the Washington Examiner or Daily Tucker that he didn't swallow wholeheartedly. Tell us again about how the guys who interviewed Flynn don't think he's guilty, Jason, that's my favorite!
   258. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:10 PM (#5707910)
Only Trump can be Trump. It's bizarre.

It's not bizarre in the least. If you or the MSM claim to be purveyors of truth and must call attention to Trump's lies because, you know, democracy dies in darkness or something, then act like it. Don't post fake, grossly inaccurate, or ridiculously one-sided articles and columns about Trump because you so wish the contents to be true.

Yeah, JE, you only support Trump because of a few retracted news articles. You're almost as principled as Paul Ryan.

But it doesn't matter to you that Trump is a racist xenophobe , as long as his racism and xenophobia are only directed against Latinos and blacks and Muslims.

It doesn't matter to you that Trump is the most blatantly corrupt president of all time, leaving Warren Harding in the dust.

And what are thousands of lies when he appoints trustworthy conservative judges?
   259. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5707912)

It's OK for Jason's cult leader to post verifiable outright lies, but it's completely irresponsible for a journalist to tweet something unverified, then issue a correction when it turns out they're wrong. Noted.
Speaking of whataboutism.
   260. BrianBrianson Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5707913)
It says "No Taxation Without Representation" right in "A Communist Manifesto".
   261. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5707915)
Speaking of whataboutism.
Fully endorsed in the bible.
   262. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5707922)
Alas for you, lawyers & Pharisees, hypocrites that you be.
   263. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:24 PM (#5707926)
Tell me, Trumpkins... What do YOU do 'after' Trump? You think all those YUGE crowds chanting LOCK HER UP! or any other sundry incivilities are going to just let you (assuming just for a moment you care) bring about some return to that civility you claim to treasure?



They are too busy being Nazi curious to care about after.
   264. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5707930)
Fully endorsed in the bible.

I like all the different translations. Sawdust/speck/splinter/mote/chip/piece vs plank/log/beam
   265. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5707931)
Alas for you, lawyers & Pharisees, hypocrites that you be.
Well, I'm not really a lawyer.
   266. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5707936)
It's OK for Jason's cult leader to post verifiable outright lies, but it's completely irresponsible for a journalist to tweet something unverified, then issue a correction when it turns out they're wrong. Noted.

Speaking of whataboutism.

I wonder how many false and corrected journalistic tweets it would take to match just one Trump campaign event?

Anatomy of a Trump rally: 76 percent of claims are false, misleading or lacking evidence
We focused only on Trump’s statements of material fact at the Montana rally, avoiding trivialities and opinions. We didn’t double-count statements when the president repeated himself.

According to our analysis, the truth took a beating in Montana. From a grand total of 98 factual statements we identified, 76 percent were false, misleading or unsupported by evidence.

Here’s a breakdown: 45 false or mostly false statements, 25 misleading statements and four unsupported claims. We also counted 24 accurate or mostly accurate statements. False or mostly false statements alone accounted for 46 percent of all claims. ...
   267. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5707940)
Folks who go to National & State Parks usually take advantage of their surroundings


Hey, ol' YR and the family got back from their trip out west and braved the fairly-constant barrage of 100 degree days to make the loop from the North Rim of the Grand Canyon through Moab and Arches in Utah and back to Rocky Mountain National Park unhindered. Arches was pretty brutal for the heat but the main difficulty I suffered was from inhaling so much trail dust kicked up from the drought-parched ground. A lotta suncreen and water and even lil' Kneesocks made it through the trek in good spirits.

You guys are S A W F T.
   268. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5707945)
Oh, look, sh!tbag showed up. Hey sh!tbag!

How'd that tragic pain-in-the-ass commute situation work itself out for you, guy? Kid become less of an inconvenience for you?
   269. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5707947)
Speaking of whataboutism.
I wonder how many false and corrected journalistic tweets it would take to match just one Trump campaign event? Instead of tapping the brakes, Andy stomped on the gas.

Again, "corrected" tweets, much like old-school print corrections, get 1/100-1/1,000th the notice of the original. And of course, not all of these mistakes, deliberate or not, ultimately result in edits.
   270. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5707954)
NBC's Capitol Hill reporter eventually deleted this tweet but the damage has been done...

BREAKING: Looks like my hunch was right. The fix *was* in, as NBC now confirms. This was a backroom deal that Trump deliberately hid from the American people by pretending he was vetting candidates. He *wasn't* vetting candidates; he *got* this vacancy by making a secret promise.

It's amazing how by simply deciding to retire at age-82, Justice Kennedy quickly went from Savior of the Republic to Chief Conspirator in a plot to undermine the judiciary, in the eyes of the looney left. Such reporting is absurd, and one has to be far from objective to even consider running with such a faulty premise, especially in the absence of any actual proof.
   271. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5707957)
How'd that tragic pain-in-the-ass commute situation work itself out for you, guy? Kid become less of an inconvenience for you?
What's that, sh!tbag? No idea what you're talking about, sh!tbag. Seriously, though, sh!tbag, you got some kind of beef with me, just pack up your sh!tbag belongings and come find me. You seem to be more invested in my life than any other person that I know absolutely nothing about, so why don't you do something about it, sh!tbag? Or better yet, why don't you just run back to your little sh!tbag college football thread that no one cares about where you get to talk to your sh!tbag self all day?
   272. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5707960)
I wonder how many false and corrected journalistic tweets it would take to match just one Trump campaign event? Instead of tapping the brakes, Andy stomped on the gas.

Again, "corrected" tweets, much like old-school print corrections, get 1/100-1/1,000th the notice of the original.


And how much notice do they get in comparison with Trump's never-corrected tweets, speeches, statements, etc., etc.?

Of course the biggest difference is that once those journalistic tweets are corrected, the original tweets don't continue to be taken as gospel. If only that were the case when it comes to tweets from Trump and the Trump-loving blogosphere.

BTW just how many uncorrected tweets emanate from MSM reporters?

And of course, not all of these mistakes ultimately result in edits.

Just when was the last time that Trump has ever admitted he was wrong about anything, let alone issued a correction or heaven help us, an apology? The standards you continue to display here when it comes to lying are about as disinterested as the shouts that come from the Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park bleachers after a close call at home plate.
   273. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5707961)
No idea what you're talking about, sh!tbag.

Oh, I'm sure that's not true. One doesn't just forget the heartbreak of having to drive to a hospital more times than expected.
   274. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5707963)
Again, "corrected" tweets, much like old-school print corrections, get 1/100-1/1,000th the notice of the original.

Come on. Not with conservative media watching. In many cases, tweets corrected after a half hour live on for days.

Who is Leigh Ann Caldwell? I've never seen her before. I thought I knew most of the people on NBC. :-)
   275. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5707966)
Oh, I'm sure that's not true. One doesn't just forget the heartbreak of having to drive to a hospital more times than expected.
It was more just driving, period, sh!tbag. But I gather it's not something you're familiar with, since most sh!tbags are too broke to avoid their own car, or you live in some rural sh!thole, which are the most common places to find sh!tbags likes yourself. But I wouldn't know, since I don't really care about your sh!tbag life, despite your weird obsession with me.

But hey, kid's doing great, thanks for caring! Came through his heart surgery with flying colors. Insurance covers a lot of home nursing, so that's nice. Appreciate your concern, sh!tbag.
   276. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5707969)
This Lance!/Shredder feud is...different...
   277. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5707972)
WTF did I wander into here?
   278. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5707976)
But hey, kid's doing great, thanks for caring! Came through his heart surgery with flying colors. Insurance covers a lot of home nursing, so that's nice. Appreciate your concern, sh!tbag.

See, I don't care how Mongo is doing. I care that you're not being inconvenienced.
   279. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5707977)
This Lance!/Shredder feud is...different...
Whoever this sh!tbag is just can't shake me for some reason, which is weird since I have literally no idea who he is. I've been here a long time, so maybe it's something long simmering. But a year or two ago, out of nowhere, he mentioned how he keeps searching the obituaries hoping to find that I've died, or something like that. I usually brush it aside, but I figured I'd dive in today. Maybe he's Chief Wahoo (for those of you who go waaaaayyyy back).
See, I don't care how Mongo is doing. I care that you're not being inconvenienced.
Oh, that's so nice of you to say. Good guess, by the way, but Mongo was our second choice. Too many people in the family with that name. Have a good one, sh!tbag!
   280. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5707979)
Of course the biggest difference is that once those journalistic tweets are corrected, the original tweets don't continue to be taken as gospel.
As pointed out above, even if the reports are subsequently edited or repudiated, the damage has been done. Issuing corrections usually doesn't wipe the stain away.
   281. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5707981)
Axios/Survey Monkey Poll - Democrats Midterm Senate Dream Slips Away:
It's looking nearly impossible for Democrats to take back the Senate. So the stakes are even higher for them to win the House if they're going to have any kind of congressional check on President Trump.

The state of play: The polls shows three Democratic senators are poised to lose their seats to Republicans — Heidi Heitkamp in North Dakota, Bill Nelson in Florida and Joe Donnelly in Indiana. Be smart... Democrats would pick up seats in Arizona and Nevada, while Republicans keep their seat in Tennessee.
Democratic bright spots: Sens. Joe Manchin in West Virginia and Jon Tester in Montana were losing by double digits to a generic GOP candidate last time we polled these states in February. They're now leading by double digits.

Our data includes an expected range under six different scenarios that measure potential turnout, giving a more complete picture of each race.

Even under the most optimistic scenarios for Democrats across all 13 states, they would still lose the same seats by a range of one percentage point to 14 percentage points. Under Republicans' most bullish forecast, they would actually pick up six seats, the four mentioned above plus Ohio and Missouri.

A little early to be that definitive, but I don't see a vote against Brett Kavanaugh helping any endangered Senate Democrat.
   282. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5707982)
As pointed out above, even if the reports are subsequently edited or repudiated, the damage has been done. Issuing corrections usually doesn't wipe the stain away.


I know, right?

Remember when a certain someone was still clinging to Carter Page, secret super agent UCI, 6 months after Page himself said it wasn't true?

Everybody would just hate to see such glaring mistakes take on a life of their own and become the foundation of an inverted pyramid of ridiculousness! How awful!
   283. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5707985)
As pointed out above, even if the reports are corrected, the damage has been done. Issuing corrections usually doesn't wipe the stain away.

Come on, what planet are you on? It usually helps you out! Everyone was up-in-arms about the caged children a few weeks ago and then some dummies on twitter misidentified an ICE agent's tattoo and *poof* nobody cares about the children anymore! Could that have worked out any better for you?

   284. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5707986)
A little early to be that definitive, but I don't see a vote against Brett Kavanaugh helping any endangered Senate Democrat.


Or helping.

So your point is....?
   285. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5707988)
Come on, what planet are you on?


He's from the planet where it matters for thee, but not for he.
   286. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5707990)
Remember when a certain someone was still clinging to Carter Page, secret super agent UCI, 6 months after Page himself said it wasn't true?
What color is the sky in your exiled world?

But yes, I know you're still waiting with baited breath for the criminal charges to be filed against Kremlin secret super agent Page.

Oh, and let's not forget this just happened:
Special counsel Robert Mueller said in a court filing Friday that his prosecutors will not present evidence regarding Trump campaign collusion with Russia at an upcoming trial for former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort.

“The government does not intend to present at trial evidence or argument concerning collusion with the Russian government,” reads a filing submitted by Mueller’s team in federal court in Virginia on Friday.
Poor, poor zonk.
   287. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5707991)
As pointed out above, even if the reports are subsequently edited or repudiated, the damage has been done.


Cockholsters. Don't. Get to. Complain. About. "Truth." ####. You.
   288. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5707994)
Come on, what planet are you on? It usually helps you out! Everyone was up-in-arms about the caged children a few weeks ago and then some dummies on twitter misidentified an ICE agent's tattoo and *poof* nobody cares about the children anymore! Could that have worked out any better for you?
Hey, buddy, maybe no one's reporting on the migrant children today because the hair-on-fire commentators have elected to focus instead on Trump's outrageous Court nomination.
   289. DavidFoss Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5707996)
Oh, and let's not forget this just happened:

So, what's your opinion on the NATO & Helsinki meetings coming up? McMaster's recent quote is "The president thinks he can be friends with Putin. I don’t know why, or why he would want to be." You've trained the media well. Nobody is willing to connect any dots anymore. :-)
   290. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5707997)
As pointed out above, even if the reports are subsequently edited or repudiated, the damage has been done. Issuing corrections usually doesn't wipe the stain away.
Yeah, it's hugely damaging for the 8 people who would have seen some of those tweets if the wingnut batsignal hadn't gone out (c'mon, it's not like Jason follows these people and discovered this stuff organically).

Also, Jason appreciates everyone keeping this issue on the forefront so that he can avoid his idiotic post about local elections and who gets to vote.
   291. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5707998)
Of course the biggest difference is that once those journalistic tweets are corrected, the original tweets don't continue to be taken as gospel.

As pointed out above, even if the reports are subsequently edited or repudiated, the damage has been done. Issuing corrections usually doesn't wipe the stain away.


What lasting damage was actually caused by that corrected tweet about Kennedy? MSM journalists caught up in repeated misrepresentations/falsehoods/plagiarism don't tend to keep their jobs for long. I wish we could say the same about the Hannitys and the Limbaughs, who ignore fact checking every bit as skillfully as their leader.

By contrast, what lasting damage has been caused by Trump's neverending and never-admitted war on the truth, egged on and amplified by the likes of Fox News?
   292. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5708001)
By contrast, what lasting damage has been caused by Trump's neverending and never-admitted war on the truth, egged on and amplified by the likes of Fox News?
Thank god no one on Jason's team ever corrected a tweet about pizza parlor sex rings, or the Democrats murdering Seth Rich. Imagine the damage that would have been done if someone had apologized about either of those.
   293. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5708003)
So, what's your opinion on the NATO & Helsinki meetings coming up? McMaster's recent quote is "The president thinks he can be friends with Putin. I don’t know why, or why he would want to be." You've trained the media well. Nobody is willing to connect any dots anymore. :-)
My top concerns in the coming days are that Trump will continue starving Sunni interests in Syria and might even soften the US position on Crimea.

He mistakenly believes Russia presents no credible strategic threat to our vital interests. Moscow cannot be easily pried away from Tehran, let alone Beijing. I also cringe at the repeated public shaming of individual NATO allies while criticism of Putin is rare.

OTOH, let's remember that harping on increased defense spending isn't the way one torpedoes a strategic alliance. Thanks primarly to his administration's efforts, more than half of NATO's members are on course to honor the two-percent pledge by the end of 2024. Also, he's well aware that the NATO countries of Eastern Europe -- from Estonia to Bulgaria -- are way more pro-American than those to their west.
   294. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:42 PM (#5708005)
Trump is well aware that the NATO countries of Eastern Europe -- from Estonia to Bulgaria -- are way more pro-American than those to their west.

Trump is also well aware that the ethno-nationalist base of those hyper-authoritarian Eastern European leaders mirror the values of him and his followers. It's not exactly a mark of distinction to have your praises sung by the likes of Kaczyński and Orbán. They're the 21st century counterparts of Franco and Salazar.
   295. RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5708006)
See, I don't care how Mongo is doing. I care that you're not being inconvenienced.

Mongo only pawn in game of life.
   296. Stormy JE Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5708007)
Trump is also well aware that the ethno-nationalist base of those hyper-authoritarian Eastern European leaders mirror the values of him and his followers. It's not exactly a mark of distinction to have your praises sung by the likes of Kaczyński and Orbán. They're the 21st century counterparts of Franco and Salazar.
Jumping the gun much? Some criticisms of Poland and Hungary may be deserved, but what free and fair elections did Franco and Salazar win? How many critics of Kaczyński and Orbán have been murdered or sent into exile?

And now discuss all of the pro-American governments with capitals not in Warsaw and Budapest?
   297. perros Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5708008)

In a nation with over 700 sitting federal judges, many of whom were appointed by Republican presidents, it is outrageous that President Trump will nominate from a list of just 25 dictated to him by the Heritage Foundation. This list is the bidding of corporate special interests hell-bent on handing health care over to insurance companies, crushing unions that represent working men and women, and promoting policies that will leave the middle-class further behind. Any judge on this list is fruit of a corrupt process straight from the D.C. swamp.

Heritage, which is an extreme Right organization, just released a new proposal to end protections for people with pre-existing conditions and gut Medicaid for seniors, people with disabilities, and children. They recently hosted a press conference for Republican attorneys general who are trying to eliminate those protections through the courts. In Pennsylvania, there are more than 5.3 million people (including 643,000 children) who have pre-existing conditions.

Heritage has also called labor unions – who helped build the middle class – “cartels.” From the formation of the first permanent Pennsylvanian local labor union in Philadelphia in 1792, through the Lattimer massacre in Northeastern Pennsylvania, to the Homestead Strike in Western Pennsylvania to today’s struggle to protect the right to organize, Pennsylvania workers have led the way to ensure that working people have basic rights, good wages, and benefits, like health care. The last thing working men and women in Pennsylvania need is another corporate justice on an increasingly corporate court.

I was elected to represent all Pennsylvanians. I was not elected to genuflect to the hard Right, who are funded by corporate America.

President Lincoln called on our nation to work to ensure “… that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” Instead, Congressional Republicans in Washington and the Administration are determined to pack the Supreme Court with a government of, by, and for extreme Right corporate interests.

I will oppose the nomination the President will make tonight because it represents a corrupt bargain with the far Right, big corporations, and Washington special interests.”

-- Sen. Bob Casey (D-PA)


   298. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 10, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5708009)
Oy. What free and fair elections did Franco and Salazar win? How many critics of Kaczyński and Orbán have been murdered or sent into exile?


You think we're so innocent?
   299. dlf Posted: July 10, 2018 at 05:20 PM (#5708012)
Mongo only pawn in game of life.


I'm pretty sure that we are presently in a story told by Mel Brooks. I mean, if I could just find a President who so offends the citizens of Rock Ridge -- er, sorry the United States -- that his very appearance would drive them out of the Country ...
   300. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: July 10, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5708013)
Wow. Lance is a real cnut. Way over the line, ass hole. What a prick.
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