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Monday, June 11, 2018

OTP 2018 June 11: Sports, politics conflicted 50 years ago with mourning of RFK’s death

If you think the intersection – and conflict – of sports and politics is something new, well, you haven’t been paying close enough attention to either for a very long time.

Don’t think so? Check out President Trump’s pardon of the controversial African-American heavyweight champion Jack Johnson, who held the title more than 100 years ago. His reign was consumed by the politics of the day. So it is no surprise that the debate over NFL players and the national anthem remains a divisive topic.

Anything that is going to have the powerful symbolism of sports —and the ability to unite, as we have seen right here in Washington during the Capitals’ Stanley Cup playoffs run — is also going to generate enough passion to divide as well, in death as well as life.

That was the case 50 years ago, as Major League Baseball tried to cope with the proper way to mourn the death of New York Senator and Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy on June 6, 1968.

 

I almost linked to a story with the tag line “Miguel Cabrera stands next to Detroit’s “Rally Goose” during the first game of a doubleheader vs. the Yankees on Monday. The Tigers lost the opener but won the nightcap” but opted for history instead of the goose.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 07:41 AM | 1349 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: boxing, death, hockey, off-topic, politics, why can't we all just get along

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   1. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 06:52 PM (#5689925)
“He’s like Heath Ledger’s Joker — but without the operational excellence.”

— A senior G7 official, quoted by The Atlantic, about President Trump’s performance at the G7 summit.
   2. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 07:11 PM (#5689929)
From the last thread:

1392. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 11, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5689541)

Anyway, now that net neutrality is officially dead, I assume that BBTF will be forced to shut down momentarily, so in case I don't get a chance to say it: farewell to all of you.


Well, BTF DID go down today. As did Netflix (for about an hour). So there.
   3. Swoboda is freedom Posted: June 11, 2018 at 07:46 PM (#5689939)
At least the Mets won last night, so we don't have to clear all of the sharp objects from Jason's house.
   4. Laser Man Posted: June 11, 2018 at 08:11 PM (#5689949)
Assuming your numbers are accurate, that still puts Clinton at roughly double the number of in-country removals.
No, you are still wrong, because in-country removals and border apprehension (usually "returns") are not the only two types. The category of "removals" includes expedited removals, which are signed by Border Patrol, and "formal removals" which need a signature by an immigration judge. The formal removals are the ones that generally apply to immigrants that have been in the country for a long time (and would also apply to DACA recipients), and that is where Trump has been increasing the numbers.
   5. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 08:41 PM (#5689961)
“The relationship that I’ve had with the people, the leaders of these countries has been — I would really rate it on the scale of zero to 10, I would rate it a 10.”

— President Trump, quoted by the New York Times, on his meetings with G7 leaders.
   6. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 08:47 PM (#5689964)
“A miserable place to work.”

— White House chief of staff John Kelly, quoted by the New York Times, telling senators what it’s like to work in the White House.
   7. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 09:37 PM (#5689989)
“A miserable place to work.”

— White House chief of staff John Kelly, quoted by the New York Times, telling senators what it’s like to work in the White House.



Larry Kudlow might agree

US President Donald Trump's chief economic adviser Larry Kudlow suffered a heart attack, the President tweeted as he arrived for his summit meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

"Our Great Larry Kudlow, who has been working so hard on trade and the economy, has just suffered a heart attack. He is now in Walter Reed Medical Center," Trump tweeted, 25 minutes before he was set to meet with Kim for the first time.
   8. Howie Menckel Posted: June 11, 2018 at 09:41 PM (#5689992)
Chris Cuomo - son of a former NY Governor and brother of the current one - is on CNN just now interviewing an emotional Dennis Rodman, the famed rebounder/diplomat who was clad in a "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN" ballcap.

Rodman says that on his first trip over there, "I knew nothing about North Korea. But I fell in love with this country." He adds that Kim Jong Un is eager to come to America.

he had a list of people to thank, including Chuck Daly, Phil Jackson, and Pearl Jam, for their support.

immediately after the interview, former Director of National Intelligence chief James Clapper agreed with Cuomo's assessment that Rodman is "our best resource right now" for understanding the minds of these two leaders."

surely this whole saga is crazy enough to work.
right? right?
   9. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 11, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5690008)
It occurs to me how Trump can make major gains in getting the African American vote in 2020 and thus cruise to re-election:

1. Pardon every non-violent drug offender convicted of a federal crime.
2. Have rolling pardons or commutations of many African Americans who are deserving of such.

Re #1, WaPo reports that there are roughly 2,000 people who have been convicted of non-violent drug offense and who are serving life sentences or sentences that will effectively amount to life in prison. Alice Marie Johnson was one such person. And this doesn't even include people convicted of non-violent drug offenses who are _not_ serving life sentences. As a libertarian I would support such pardons for non-violent drug offenses, particularly for inmates without significant prior criminal histories.

Obviously there are plenty of people of other races serving such sentences and they would benefit too -- but since many argue that non-violent drug offenses have unfairly targeted African Americans (e.g., crack cocaine; drug dealing; etc.) this would seem to be something that the African American community would see as a major helping hand from the president, which would also help to reunite pardon recipients with their families.

Re #2, since many people argue that African Americans have been unfairly targeted by the criminal justice system in general, even setting aside non-violent drug offenses -- e.g., unfairly targeted by police; unfairly prosecuted; unfairly convicted by juries -- this would seem to go to righting at least a small number of those wrongs. If celebrities such as Kanye West or Kim Kardashian who are trusted by the black community get behind Trump on this it could really have an effect. Indeed we're already seeing some of this in Trump's pardons.
   10. DavidFoss Posted: June 11, 2018 at 09:56 PM (#5690009)
CNN just now interviewing an emotional Dennis Rodman, the famed rebounder/diplomat who was clad in a "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN" ballcap.

Rodman is also pushing his PotCoin.

Benjy Sarlin tweets:

I’m not sure it’s possible to capture an entire era in one image, but Dennis Rodman running a cryptocurrency grift on live TV from the North Korea summit while wearing a MAGA is a serious nominee
   11. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:02 PM (#5690012)
Any horse racing folks who can weigh in on this? I thought it was strange in watching the Belmont that Justify's stablemate and fellow trainee (same trainer) would be allowed to race in the same race.

Of course, the owner that's complaining had two horses racing in the Belmont himself.

To me it seems it creates an appearance of impropriety but I presume few in the industry or few fans actually think this is a problem?

Losing Belmont Stakes Owner Claims Collusion Helped Justify Win Triple Crown

Fourth-place horse's owner says Justify stablemate Restoring Hope blocked others to ensure victory.


A losing owner at the Belmont Stakes is accusing Justify’s stablemate of engaging in horseplay.

Mike Repole, the co-owner of fourth-place finisher Vino Rosso and last-place finisher Noble Indy in the Stakes, is calling for a review of how Restoring Hope was handled by jockey Florent Geroux during the Triple Crown race.

Reptile claims that Restoring Hope, who stables with Justify and is also trained by the Triple Crown winner’s trainer Bob Baffert, “was more of an offensive lineman than a racehorse trying to win the Belmont.”

The eighth-place finisher cut back and forth during the race, cutting off Noble Indy and altering the positions of several other horses while never really challenging Justify for the lead.

“Justify is a super horse. He is a Triple Crown winner and he’s undefeated,” Repole told The New York Post. “But I can see the stewards looking into this over the next couple of days. I probably expect them to look into reckless riding by Florent and bring him in to question him about what he was thinking and what his tactics were.”

“Why would you send a horse that breaks bad and take everybody out, then come back in?” added John Velazquez, the rider of Vino Rosso. “That’s his job, to protect the other horse and it worked for them. You have to give it to them.”
   12. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5690014)
We should start the new thread out with a poll: do you believe Donald Trump values American interests over Russian interests?


Oh, this is fun. Let's do "With regard to immigration policy do you believe Democrats value American interests over the interests of non-Americans?"
   13. PreservedFish Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5690015)
Let's do "With regard to immigration policy do you believe Democrats value American interests over the interests of non-Americans?"


I don't, no.
   14. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5690016)
Time for an honest conversation...#9 is pathetic and it is amazing someone would attach their real name to that. But then, the Idiots are really having a moment right now, so why wouldn’t he think this merits a debate.

Let’s not address the structural problems AAs face. They’ll be cool if we pardon a cousin or two after they’ve spent years in prison. That’ll be enough to swing their vote to the con-man in two years.
If celebrities such as Kanye West or Kim Kardashian who are trusted by the black community

Source?
Indeed we're already seeing some of this in Trump's pardons.

Source?

Please don’t anyone ever mention liberal bubbles or Pauline Kael again.
   15. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:08 PM (#5690017)
surely this whole saga is crazy enough to work.
right? right?

A real laugh riot, Howie. Another banner day for the greatest country in the world.
   16. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:08 PM (#5690018)
If celebrities such as Kanye West or Kim Kardashian who are trusted by the black community get behind Trump on this it could really have an effect.


Wait, what...?

   17. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:14 PM (#5690026)
Can our resident Dilbert expert Ray explain this tweet from @ScottAdamsSays?

President Trump has now claimed in public a thousand times that current trade deals are unfair to America. How many counter-arguments have you seen in the news? None? #TradeWar
9:59 AM - 10 Jun 2018


I don't mean "Can Ray justify it?" I mean, can Ray explain it? I have no idea what the hell Dilbert is claiming. I mean, I know the insinuation is wrong; I've seen a thousand counter-arguments in the news. (Or the same counter-argument a thousand times, more precisely.) But I don't know what fake conclusion Dilbert is drawing from his fake argument.


I haven't read or watched anything from Adams in several months, but just going from the above tweet: Reading is fundamental. Adams is asking whether the current trade deals are FAIR to Americans -- not whether they're GOOD for Americans.

A trade deal could be *good* for Americans but still *unfair* relative to China.

And fairness is the left's pet concept, so I don't know why they'd object now. Remember how wealth redistribution was supported by Democrats simply because Democrats felt that it was a matter of "fairness"? When you distill an issue not to one of economic theory but to one of "fairness" you can basically argue anything. That's what Trump is doing here. It's an old leftist trick.
   18. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5690028)
A trade deal could be good for Americans but still *unfair* relative to China.


Maybe he could get Margaret Cho and George Takei to help, being trusted by the Asian community such as they are.
   19. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:20 PM (#5690034)
Oh, this is fun. Let's do "With regard to immigration policy do you believe Democrats value American interests over the interests of non-Americans?"

Stupid question that assumes that it's not in America's interest to bring millions of people out of hiding and give them a path to citizenship. It's lucky for you that the immigration law of 1924 wasn't passed 100 years earlier, or if you'd been born you'd probably be stomping on grapes somewhere in Italy.
   20. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5690039)
Note that Trump is also upset that China doesn't value the IP rights of Americans. Trump believes that the Chinese government allows theft of our IP.

To examine one aspect of this -- IP litigation -- the thinking among IP attorneys over the past several years has generally been that the Chinese government puts a thumb on the scale when a foreign (non-Chinese) litigant is involved, thereby tipping the scale towards the domestic litigant.

*If* that has been the case -- and it has traditionally been difficult to get the data to analyze the issue -- it may be changing.

See this analysis, for example:

How Foreign Patentees Fared in Patent Litigation in China
February 6, 2018
Jason Rantanen

...

However, due to the lack of judicial transparency before 2014, we had virtually no access to Chinese patent litigation data and knew little about how Chinese courts adjudicated patent cases. Instead, we were left with a variety of impressions and guesses based on the text of Chinese law and the limited number of cases released by the press; for example, that Chinese courts have a strong bias toward domestic companies over foreign ones, to protect the local economy; that injunctions, either preliminary or permanent, are difficult to obtain under Chinese law; that monetary damages granted by Chinese courts are extremely low, and insufficient to compensate patent holders; etc.

Taking advantage of ongoing judicial reform in China, including mandated public access to all judgments made since January 1, 2014 via a database called China Judgements Online (CJO), I wrote a paper called “Many Things You Know about Patent Infringement Litigation in China are Wrong” in 2016 (available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=3063566). It analyzes 1,663 patent infringement judgments – all publicly available final patent infringement cases decided by local people’s courts in 2014, and surprisingly finds out that most of the long-standing beliefs about patent enforcement in China cannot be supported by empirical data.

One prominent example is that foreign patent holders were as likely to litigate as domestic patent holders, as shown below:

...

Why did foreign patentees not fear enforcing their patent rights in China as the conventional wisdom suggested? The answer may be surprising: plaintiffs fared better than domestic Chinese patent holders. They had a higher win rate, injunction rate, and average damages:

Foreign plaintiffs were more likely to win and receive injunctions than their Chinese counterparts in patent infringement cases brought in China. Moreover, damages awarded to foreign patent owners (¥201,620.45, or US$32,837.21) were almost three times higher than those awarded to Chinese patent owners (¥66,217.93, or US$10,784.68). The important implication here is that Chinese courts, while not preferring foreign parties to domestic ones, certainly did not protect the local economy at the expense of foreign companies in practice....
   21. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:31 PM (#5690041)
Let’s not address the structural problems AAs face. They’ll be cool if we pardon a cousin or two after they’ve spent years in prison. That’ll be enough to swing their vote to the con-man in two years.


? Pardon power is a major tool that the president has for righting wrongs. I can't imagine why one would be against liberal usage of it.

Do you not agree that African Americans have been unfairly targeted by the laws and by cops and by the criminal justice system? Yes, obviously it's impossible to fix what happened in the past. But Trump could help address it to a small extent through pardons or commutations. (And through pushing for more sane drug laws -- such as making all recreational drug use legal not just marijuana -- but that's a much taller order and doesn't seem possible given the puritanical climate we're in right now in the US.)

I'm having a hard time understanding why you would find my post "pathetic." Do you object to the very notion of politicians pandering to identity groups for votes? That would be an interesting position to take -- and one not at all in line with the real world.
   22. DavidFoss Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:35 PM (#5690045)
Note that Trump is also upset that China doesn't value the IP rights of Americans. Trump believes that the Chinese government allows theft of our IP.

Sure, people have made IP jokes about China for a couple of decades now. But we aren't having a trade war with China over IP and manufacturing (yet). Instead we're having a trade war with Canada over dairy.
   23. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:45 PM (#5690050)
Sure, people have made IP jokes about China for a couple of decades now. But we aren't having a trade war with China over IP and manufacturing (yet). Instead we're having a trade war with Canada over dairy.


Once Trump can get Dan Aykroyd and Celine Dion on board, I have no doubt Canada will see the error of its ways and be back to supporting Trump.
   24. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 10:58 PM (#5690055)
Once Trump can get Dan Aykroyd and Celine Dion on board, I have no doubt Canada will see the error of its ways and be back to supporting Trump.


I'd go with William Shatner and k.d. lang
   25. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 11, 2018 at 11:41 PM (#5690077)
No, he made up 18 months ago the notion of judging Trump based on random stock market fluctuations (and VIX! Don't forget that!). What he just made up was the claim that everyone says that the president runs the economy.

We both agree he made up the former, but I thought the latter had been seen previously as well. So many trolling lies though I could easily be wrong.


Remember, folks: BM doesn't insult other posters. And he's happy to repeat that over and over again despite plain evidence to the contrary.
   26. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 11, 2018 at 11:41 PM (#5690078)
By the way, note how deeply Clapper and Ray are focusing on the legal yammerings to defend sending slave labor back to terrorist camps. It's generally because as evil and morally disgusting as that is, it's more defensible than anything they can think to say to support their Dear Leader after his weekend of capitulation to Russian whims.

Poor pathetic Sam once again is plainly lying for all to see. I never took a position on the merits of the decision by the Board of Immigration Appeals (IIRC, neither did Ray),


Correct. I did not take a position on the merits.
   27. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 12, 2018 at 12:08 AM (#5690103)
Remember, folks: BM doesn't insult other posters. And he's happy to repeat that over and over again despite plain evidence to the contrary.


When arguing with an umpire about a call, you can almost always get away with saying the call was "####### bad". You can criticize/insult the call itself (if you don't make too much of a scene about it).

What you can't do is say "You're a ####### bad umpire." Criticizing or insulting the the umpire is going to get you tossed.

In this case, I see BM is insulting the comments (calling them lies/trolling), but not the commenter.
   28. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 12:11 AM (#5690105)
Some googling on Trump and pardons turns this up. I've said in the past that engaging with Trump rather than spewing venom at him nonstop would likely prove fruitful, to those who care about improving processes and outcomes rather than virtue screaming, and this column argues the same thing:

Liberals ought to learn from Kim Kardashian
By Karol Markowicz

June 10, 2018 | 9:20pm | Updated

Last week, President Trump commuted the prison sentence of Alice Johnson, a first-time nonviolent drug offender who had served 21 years of a life sentence without possibility of parole. Her release was championed by Kim Kardashian West, a reality TV star who was moved to her cause after hearing about it on the Internet.
Kardashian West met with Trump at the White House to urge him to release Johnson. A week later he did just that.

Her meeting provoked anger and confusion among Trump’s critics. But what it should have done is showed them the error of their ways: Engaging Trump has rewards. Whining to the universe about him doesn’t.

...

These writers, and so many others like them, needed this meeting to fail. If it didn’t, other celebrities might start visiting the White House to push their issues, which would be terrible because, well, no one is really sure why that would be terrible but everyone is sure it would be.

...

Donald Trump is not like other presidents, so the temper tantrum that is the “Resistance” makes no sense. You can “resist” an ideologue, someone who will never come around to your point of view.

But that isn’t the type of person Trump is nor the way he has governed as president. He seems entirely likely to hear out his opponents if they are respectful and polite toward him. He’s far more persuadable than previous presidents.

Politically, he’s basically nonideological, sometimes agreeing with Bernie Sanders, other times with Ted Cruz. His lack of political experience has led him to take chances and make moves that others wouldn’t.


The left’s push to avoid “normalizing” Trump has reached bizarre proportions. Even if no celebrity visits the White House, Trump remains the president. Why not try to motivate him toward goals they’d like to see?

Marching and yelling are easier than debate or conversation with someone they have sworn to hate forever — but they are far less effective.
   29. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 12:17 AM (#5690107)
Remember, folks: BM doesn't insult other posters. And he's happy to repeat that over and over again despite plain evidence to the contrary.


When arguing with an umpire about a call, you can almost always get away with saying the call was "####### bad". You can criticize/insult the call itself (if you don't make too much of a scene about it).

What you can't do is say "You're a ####### bad umpire." Criticizing or insulting the the umpire is going to get you tossed.


"I didn't kill him. I shot him. The bullets and the fall killed him."

In this case, I see BM is insulting the comments (calling them lies/trolling), but not the commenter.


1439. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5689677)

A is likely. B is an outright like and is insulting.

Ummm, consider the source. Of course it is a lie. Blame water for being wet next.


1455. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5689713)

The only one ignoring substance is you.

Arguing with a Troll is a form of ignoring substance some would say. :)


Well, so much for that.
   30. Howie Menckel Posted: June 12, 2018 at 12:55 AM (#5690114)
I chuckled at this tweet

MSNBC’s Nicole Wallace said it was a summit of two liars. While sitting next to Brian Williams. Oh the irony. #TrumpKimSummit
   31. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: June 12, 2018 at 01:12 AM (#5690117)
Some googling on Trump and pardons turns this up. I've said in the past that engaging with Trump rather than spewing venom at him nonstop would likely prove fruitful, to those who care about improving processes and outcomes rather than virtue screaming, and this column argues the same thing:
Let's keep in mind that most of the "venom" consists of repeating words the man says. or tweets. The man is either crazy or completely amoral.

Pardoning Alice Johnson was a nice gesture, but it changes nothing. If Trump wants to spend his time meeting with celebrities and pardoning people, rather than embarrassing the country and weakening our alliances and institutions, that would be great. But he's not going to stop being crazy or amoral because we kiss his ass.
   32. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 01:52 AM (#5690120)
Trump or no Trump, hard to believe I'm seeing this happen.
   33. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 12, 2018 at 01:53 AM (#5690121)
Trump has a special place in hell for Justin Trudeau, but great respect for Kim Jong Un.

Sources say that after advisers passed #28 (above) along to Kim, the Supreme Leader complimented Trump's hair, and in return has received a White House invitation.
   34. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 01:57 AM (#5690122)
I still harbor bottom level expectations.
   35. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 05:53 AM (#5690131)
But that isn’t the type of person Trump is nor the way he has governed as president. He seems entirely likely to hear out his opponents if they are respectful and polite toward him. He’s far more persuadable than previous presidents


Has he been persuaded that Barack Obama was born in America yet?

“Oh, if you only kiss his ass, genuflect, scrape, bow, praise his large hands and thick lusterous hair, he’ll deign to consider your pleas. Also it helps if you have a notoriously vapid TV show that features frequent shots of your butt.”

Our Little Lord, the human veal, actually thinks this is a positive.
   36. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 06:01 AM (#5690132)

But that isn’t the type of person Trump is nor the way he has governed as president. He seems entirely likely to hear out his opponents if they are respectful and polite toward him. He’s far more persuadable than previous presidents.
No. That's completely false. He is not persuadable in any respect.

per·suade
pərˈswād/
verb
cause (someone) to do something through reasoning or argument.
The problem with that as it applies to Trump should be obvious. Moreover, we saw just this week that sucking up to him doesn't work; the other G-7 leaders have variously tried that, to no/negative effect. The notion that because Trump can be influenced to do something he doesn't care about by a celebrity chick, that his opponents can convince him to do something is nonsensical.


Her meeting provoked anger and confusion among Trump’s critics.
False. Complete lie. It provoked mockery over the fact that a reality TV star is making policy. (And Kim Kardashian, too.)
   37. -- Posted: June 12, 2018 at 06:18 AM (#5690133)
No, you are still wrong, because in-country removals and border apprehension (usually "returns") are not the only two types. The category of "removals" includes expedited removals, which are signed by Border Patrol, and "formal removals" which need a signature by an immigration judge. The formal removals are the ones that generally apply to immigrants that have been in the country for a long time (and would also apply to DACA recipients), and that is where Trump has been increasing the numbers.


Nah, you're just teasing out the data, finding one metric where Trump is kinda sorta close to previous presidents, and declaring that metric the only real measure of monsterousness ... because Trump.

The narrative we typically get is of hard-working people dreaming of bringing their families to America, trudging through violent deserts and the like, fleeing gang violence that is every bit as bad as Cuban communism don't you dare say otherwise ... and all the rest. Not being able to come to America or stay in America dashes those dreams and ipso facto sends you back to the awful conditions you're bravely fleeing. No matter how you slice it and dice it, Donald Trump has dashed the dreams of far fewer people than his predecessors.
   38. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 06:24 AM (#5690134)
Her meeting provoked anger and confusion among Trump’s critics.

False. Complete lie. It provoked mockery over the fact that a reality TV star is making policy. (And Kim Kardashian, too.)


See, that’s the sort of hurtful, insulting rhetoric that will forever preclude your joining the ranks of sycophants, courtiers, lickspittles, and toadies who are making America great again.
   39. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 07:42 AM (#5690138)
Remember, folks: BM doesn't insult other posters. And he's happy to repeat that over and over again despite plain evidence to the contrary.


This is a lie, which makes Ray a serial liar, as he has repeated this particular lie several times. But go ahead Ray, find some of those times where I "happy to repeat that over and over again". I'll wait. Last time I challenged you on this lie you never responded, gosh I wonder what will happen this time.
   40. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 07:50 AM (#5690139)
What Do Americans Think of Trump’s Summit With Kim Jong Un?

There is some interesting results from the poll but the last paragraph is most interesting. GOP President Trump, making allies queasy.

There is one striking result from Japanese poll that does not bode well for Washington: In our joint poll last November, the Japanese identified North Korea as the greatest threat to world peace and security (55 percent), followed by the U.S. (43 percent) and China (34 percent). In the new poll, the U.S. is now seen as the greatest threat (52 percent) followed by China (34 percent), and North Korea (30 percent). This suggests that as the chance of diplomatic progress increases, perception of North Korea as a primary threat is diminishing – while the perception that Washington presents global threat to peace and security is increasing, perhaps bolstered by increasing uncertainty about American foreign policy, including on issues unrelated to North Korea.
   41. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 07:53 AM (#5690140)
   42. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 07:54 AM (#5690141)
Maybe Ray is confused, because someone wrote the following ...
I don't ever use personal attacks, or call people names, or anything like that.


But that was Ray.

3925. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 31, 2012 at 11:29 AM (#4196966)


I am pretty sure we have seen plenty of personal attacks and calling people names since then from him, but hey, whatever.
   43. McCoy Posted: June 12, 2018 at 07:57 AM (#5690142)
The key would be did he do that before July 31 2012 not after.
   44. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:01 AM (#5690144)
I don't ever use personal attacks, or call people names,


Oh, are the poor wittle snowflakes and cockholsters crying again?
   45. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:01 AM (#5690145)
But Trump could help address it to a small extent through pardons or commutations.


..says the idiot Omega Dancing Monkey, trying to make a case for increased support for Trump among blacks.


Someone ask the idiot Omega Dancing Monkey how the "small extent" of the effects of Trump's pardons translates to more than a "small extent" of support? Black people aren't as stupid as Ray is. If we're sending black people to jail in huge numbers, and pardoning a few of them...

Ray is an idiot, and those of you that engage him...well, I don't get it.
   46. -- Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:03 AM (#5690146)
I am pretty sure we have seen plenty of personal attacks and calling people names since then from him, but hey, whatever.


You pretty clearly engage in them when you know you're overmatched on substance. You don't have quite the level of sleeve-wearing inadequacies and neediness of your binky, but you revert to the "troll" stuff for much the same reason.

But feel free to continue; the reasons are clear and it really doesn't matter. Though others may not want to see the thread polluted with such nonsense, I really don't care.
   47. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:04 AM (#5690147)
It provoked mockery over the fact that a reality TV star is making policy. (And Kim Kardashian, too.)


This is what the republic has fallen to. Policy decisions being made by a cadre of washed up reality television personalities. Governing by Kim Kardashian, Dennis Rodman and Donald ####### Trump. The shooting war can't get here soon enough.
   48. -- Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:05 AM (#5690148)
Yeah, how disgusting and outrageous it was that Alice Johnson was pardoned. Simply disgraceful.
   49. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:08 AM (#5690150)
eah, how disgusting and outrageous it was that Alice Johnson was pardoned. Simply disgraceful.


No less so than your continued breathing.
   50. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:08 AM (#5690151)
The key would be did he do that before July 31 2012 not after.


He did plenty before and after. I am not the precious snowflake that Ray is though, so I don't care much. Just thought I would try to explain Ray's insistence that I wrote something "over and over", he was just confused. Poor guy.
   51. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:13 AM (#5690152)
Yeah, how disgusting and outrageous it was that Alice Johnson was pardoned. Simply disgraceful.


Who said that? It a nice thing, but it's a very small thing (except to her and her family).

edit...if the pardon was issued cynically, with no policy that reduces the amount of black people sent to prison for non violent crimes, then, yes, it's disgusting.
   52. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:13 AM (#5690153)
Back to talking about politics - Democrats' October 'surprise' in the midterms? Hint: It has to do with health care costs

But with the new rates coming soon — weeks before voters head to the polls in the midterm elections — consumers are bracing for more pain here and across the country. Insurers in Maryland, New York and Washington have already submitted requests for premium increases averaging 19 percent to 30 percent statewide, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

It's an October "surprise" that everyone sees coming, including Democrats trying to take back the House and Senate.

An array of state and national progressive groups are already laying the groundwork to attack Republicans for the expected premium increases. Democratic candidates are running ads on health care more than any other issue. And Senate Democrats recently announced plans to devote the month of August to a messaging campaign on health care costs.


The GOP has managed to repeatedly hurt ACA, enough to take ownership of the issue, but they have not killed it and have most certainly not - as they repeatedly promised - replaced it with anything better. I bet voters won't mind a spike in premiums though and won't at all take it out on the party in charge.
   53. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:14 AM (#5690154)
You pretty clearly engage in them when you know you're overmatched on substance


We've clearly found SBB's latest autistic focus word.
   54. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:15 AM (#5690155)
The shooting war can't get here soon enough.


For the record this is nearly as nutty as peak Stretchy.
   55. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:15 AM (#5690156)
Democrats' October 'surprise' in the midterms? Hint: It has to do with health care costs


You and they still believe the idiots are going to pay attention to facts, policy or reason? God. It's hopeless on both sides.
   56. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:16 AM (#5690157)
For the record this is nearly as nutty as peak Stretchy


I'm aware that you don't actually have the courage of your convictions.
   57. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:20 AM (#5690159)
I'm aware that you don't actually have the courage of your convictions.


???

I am against war specifically and violence in general in the vast majority of circumstances. Mostly because it is wasteful and counter productive. So thinking your desire for "the shooting war" is nutty is very much inline with my convictions.

You are just reacting to Trump and his band of little Trumpkins by escalating your rhetoric for a variety of stylistic reasons. I doubt - though am not 100% sure - that it has little to do with any convictions you might have.
   58. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5690161)
You are just reacting to Trump and his band of little Trumpkins by escalating your rhetoric for a variety of stylistic reasons. I doubt - though am not 100% sure - that it has little to do with any convictions you might have.


You may believe what you like. If Japan nuked Singapore this morning, I'd call that a win for humanity.
   59. Lassus Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:28 AM (#5690163)
Seems a dude with an icepick would have worked just as well.
   60. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:31 AM (#5690165)
Seems a dude with an icepick would have worked just as well.


It's the only way we can be sure.
   61. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:32 AM (#5690166)
Seems a dude with an icepick would have worked just as well.

Where is Ramón Mercader now that we need him? (smile)
   62. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:44 AM (#5690168)
You and they still believe the idiots are going to pay attention to facts, policy or reason? God. It's hopeless on both sides.


I know that just a few cycles ago Democrats were in charge of the House, Senate, and White House, and that last election Trump squeaked out a victory, despite losing the popular vote. The idea that now, mysteriously, the normal laws of politics are suspended, just because Trump is President is either panicky, silly, nonsensical or some combination of the prior.

Politics is still politics, as the special election results have shown quite clearly. This is no time for hysterics or farcical revolutions, it is coming up on election time, where a variety of people go to the polls and vote. But if playing with your crayons and drawing violent scenes with them makes you happy, well have a good time.
   63. DavidFoss Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:47 AM (#5690170)
The summit is all over already. Air Force One is on its way back already.

Trump actually sat down with Stephanopoulos. First non-Fox interview since Lester Holt if I recall correctly. ABC released a transcript. I gotta say, transcripts don't really do Trump justice. I'm sure if I watch it later, it will sound like normal Trump, but nobody writes like he talks.
   64. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:50 AM (#5690173)
Yeah, how disgusting and outrageous it was that Alice Johnson was pardoned. Simply disgraceful.


Of course, Obama pardoned 1900 Alice Johnsons... but he forgot to get Kim Kardasian's blessing first.
   65. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:53 AM (#5690175)
The idea that now, mysteriously, the normal laws of politics are suspended, just because Trump is President is either panicky, silly, nonsensical or some combination of the prior.


Until Donald Trump is removed, by any means necessary, the normal laws of politics can go #### themselves.
   66. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:54 AM (#5690177)
Some googling on Trump and pardons turns this up. I've said in the past that engaging with Trump rather than spewing venom at him nonstop would likely prove fruitful, to those who care about improving processes and outcomes rather than virtue screaming, and this column argues the same thing:


And these past instances prove the folly.

Yeesh. Ordinarily, if you're going to fill a page with dumbassery, it's better to wait until middle of the week so it's gets buried. Now, Ray's ridiculousness will be the OTP greeting all week long.

Most leaders have tried to charm the unpredictable president into softening his policies. Until now.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe traveled to Trump Tower to visit the president-elect shortly after his election, only to have Trump withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership on his third day in office a couple of months later. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has sat patiently through several rounds of talks to renegotiate NAFTA, only to see Trump repeatedly threaten to tear up the agreement if Ottawa doesn’t agree to what it sees as unreasonable demands.

And French President Emmanuel Macron has fashioned himself as Trump “interpreter” in Europe, where he and other members of the EU have repeatedly threatened to hit back at U.S. tariffs with retaliatory duties of their own — only to see the U.S. president slap steep penalties on their steel and aluminum exports anyway.

* * *

Still, the allies wasted little time in unleashing retaliatory plans. Trudeau, for one, spent months being what he has described as “polite and respectful” toward Trump despite stark differences in their politics. Now he has become one of the loudest critics of the new steel and aluminum tariffs, calling them “insulting and unacceptable," and has vowed to respond with penalties on more than $12 billion in U.S. goods.
   67. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:59 AM (#5690178)
Speaking of going to the polls and voting ... Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats: Russia is Attempting to Influence US Midterms, Divide Transatlantic Alliance

Coats said Russia had already undertaken an “unprecedented influence campaign to interfere in the US electoral and political process” in 2016. Russia, Coats pointed out, has also meddled in France, Germany, Norway, Spain, and Ukraine. "It is 2018, and we continue to see Russian targeting of American society in ways that could affect our midterm elections," he said.

Coats’ comments are aligned with assessments by the US intelligence community and US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who in his previous role as director of the Central Intelligence Agency warned that he expected Russia to attempt to disrupt the midterm elections.
   68. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:00 AM (#5690179)
Yeah, how disgusting and outrageous it was that Alice Johnson was pardoned. Simply disgraceful.

Of course, Obama pardoned 1900 Alice Johnsons... but he forgot to get Kim Kardasian's blessing first.


Pardoning one person is mercy. Pardoning 1900 people is weak on crime.
   69. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:00 AM (#5690180)
Still, the allies wasted little time in unleashing retaliatory plans. Trudeau, for one, spent months being what he has described as “polite and respectful” toward Trump despite stark differences in their politics. Now he has become one of the loudest critics of the new steel and aluminum tariffs, calling them “insulting and unacceptable," and has vowed to respond with penalties on more than $12 billion in U.S. goods.


If the Euros and Canada invaded tomorrow, patriots would join them in their fight.
   70. BDC Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:00 AM (#5690181)
It has to do with health care costs

You and they still believe the idiots are going to pay attention to facts


Yeah – the problem is that it's still convenient to blame the ACA for spikes in costs, and to run on the idea that "we need to kill Obamacare, not just maim it." A wide swath of voters will always be convinced that socialized medicine is the devil, even as many of them enjoy Medicare.
   71. McCoy Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:00 AM (#5690182)
If you're a social media celebrity and you fawn over Trump he will reward you with meaningless things. For everyone else you can be sacrificed for the news cycle.
   72. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:01 AM (#5690183)
Pardoning one person is mercy. Pardoning 1900 people is weak on crime.


If Obama had been "persuaded" to pardon a single person by a visit from Kim Kardashian, Ray would have led the charge of mockery and ####-kicking.
   73. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:02 AM (#5690184)
A wide swath of voters will always be convinced that socialized medicine is the devil, even as many of them enjoy Medicare.


Well, yes. "Socialized medicine" might help pigmented people.
   74. Greg K Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:03 AM (#5690185)
If the Euros and Canada invaded tomorrow, patriots would join them in their fight.

If you're making the softball game we can start drawing up plans that weekend.
   75. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:03 AM (#5690186)
Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats: Russia is Attempting to Influence US Midterms, Divide Transatlantic Alliance


The fact that they have a stooge in the Oval Office has to help.
   76. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:03 AM (#5690187)
If Obama had been "persuaded" to pardon a single person by a visit from Kim Kardashian, Ray would have led the charge of mockery and ####-kicking.


Because Ray is an idiot troll. He pretends to be serious while he giggles behind his keyboard.
   77. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:03 AM (#5690188)
If you're making the softball game we can start drawing up plans that weekend.


I'm not sure that would be good for Jason or Ray.
   78. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:04 AM (#5690191)
If the Euros and Canada invaded tomorrow, patriots would join them in their fight.


I can neither confirm nor deny rumors that I had regular meetings with the Canadian AFC while north... and all the pictures I've taken of bridges, roads, and railways were since returning have been merely a matter of reacquainting myself with my beloved homeland.
   79. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:06 AM (#5690194)
Trump was shown saying his deal w/Kim is "complete and verifiable denuclearization". That's his message to his base. That's what they will believe he accomplished, without any evidence that it's happening.
   80. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5690197)
Trump was shown saying his deal w/Kim is "complete and verifiable denuclearization". That's his message to his base. That's what they will believe he accomplished, without any evidence that it's happening.


Accomplished with a photo op. But yes, the idiots are idiots. They're too goddamned stupid to be allowed to continue to breed.
   81. Lassus Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:14 AM (#5690198)
If you're making the softball game we can start drawing up plans that weekend.

It's a trap! He's under orders from (and in thrall to) Zara Anne Elizabeth Tindall to wipe out the US democracy, and the 16 people blocking her path to the throne!
   82. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:15 AM (#5690202)
A Senior White House Official Defines the Trump Doctrine: ‘We’re America, Bitch’

Trumpian chaos is, in fact, undergirded by a comprehensible worldview, a number of experts have insisted. The Brookings Institution scholar (and frequent Atlantic contributor) Thomas Wright argued in a January 2016 essay that Trump’s views are both discernible and explicable. Wright, who published his analysis at a time when most everyone in the foreign-policy establishment considered Trump’s candidacy to be a farce, wrote that Trump loathes the liberal international order and would work against it as president; he wrote that Trump also dislikes America’s military alliances, and would work against them; he argued that Trump believes in his bones that the global economy is unfair to the U.S.; and, finally, he wrote that Trump has an innate sympathy for “authoritarian strongmen.”

* * *
The second-best self-description of the Trump Doctrine I heard was this, from a senior national-security official: “Permanent destabilization creates American advantage.” The official who described this to me said Trump believes that keeping allies and adversaries alike perpetually off-balance necessarily benefits the United States, which is still the most powerful country on Earth. When I noted that America’s adversaries seem far less destabilized by Trump than do America’s allies, this official argued for strategic patience. “They’ll see over time that it doesn’t pay to argue with us.”

* * *
I asked this official to explain the idea. “Obama apologized to everyone for everything. He felt bad about everything.” President Trump, this official said, “doesn’t feel like he has to apologize for anything America does.” I later asked another senior official, one who rendered the doctrine not as “We’re America, Bitch” but as “We’re America, #######,” whether he was aware of the 2004 movie Team America: World Police, whose theme song was “America, #### Yeah!”

“Of course,” he said, laughing. “The president believes that we’re America, and people can take it or leave it.”

* * *
But what is mainly interesting about “We’re America, Bitch” is its delusional quality. Donald Trump is pursuing policies that undermine the Western alliance, empower Russia and China, and demoralize freedom-seeking people around the world. The United States could be made weaker—perhaps permanently—by the implementation of the Trump Doctrine.

The administration officials, and friends of Trump, I’ve spoken with in recent days believe the opposite: that Trump is rebuilding American power after an eight-year period of willful dissipation. “People criticize [Trump] for being opposed to everything Obama did, but we’re justified in canceling out his policies,” one friend of Trump’s told me. This friend described the Trump Doctrine in the simplest way possible. “There’s the Obama Doctrine, and the ‘Fuck Obama’ Doctrine,” he said. “We’re the ‘Fuck Obama’ Doctrine.”


Clown Hitler.
   83. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:18 AM (#5690204)
The administration officials, and friends of Trump, I’ve spoken with in recent days believe the opposite: that Trump is rebuilding American power after an eight-year period of willful dissipation. “People criticize [Trump] for being opposed to everything Obama did, but we’re justified in canceling out his policies,” one friend of Trump’s told me. This friend described the Trump Doctrine in the simplest way possible. “There’s the Obama Doctrine, and the ‘Fuck Obama’ Doctrine,” he said. “We’re the ‘Fuck Obama’ Doctrine.”


That's it in a nutshell. They must be eliminated, and their supporters must be denatured.
   84. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:19 AM (#5690206)
   85. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5690211)
He's a #####'s idea of a tough guy.

This really is a cautionary tale about the risks of letting men grow up without having the incur the risk of an ass-kicking. If Trump wasn't able to hide behind his shyster lawyers every time he was caught grifting, he'd probably be a very different person.
   86. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:27 AM (#5690212)
Trump was shown saying his deal w/Kim is "complete and verifiable denuclearization". That's his message to his base. That's what they will believe he accomplished, without any evidence that it's happening.


More than non-zero, the chances actually, truly, and honestly are that Dennis Rodman rather than a bunch of nerds like the IEAE will be handling the 'verification'... unless Jared gets another folder for his portfolio.
   87. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:31 AM (#5690214)
There's a special place in hell for Justin Trudeau, but Kim?

“He’s a rough guy. He has to be a rough guy or he has been a rough person,” Trump told Van Susteren. “But we got along very well. He’s smart, loves his people, he loves his country.”

“But he’s starved them,” Van Susteren asserted, “He’s been brutal to them. He still loves his people?”

“Look, he’s doing what he’s seen done, if you look at it,” he said. “But, I really have to go by today and by yesterday and by a couple of weeks ago because that’s really when this whole thing started.”


So much for the shining beacon on a hill...
   88. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5690218)
You think we're so innocent?
   89. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:37 AM (#5690219)
He's a #####'s idea of a tough guy.


Which, of course, explains why Jason, Ray and SBB love him so much.
   90. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5690220)
And while Trump creates this chaos, this distraction, Ivanka, Don Jr, Jared, even Eric the Moron are using the family influence to make deals that will make them richer. That's all this presidency is about. To think that Trump gives 2 shits about anything but making money for himself is as dumb as it gets.
   91. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:39 AM (#5690223)
That's all this presidency is about. To think that Trump gives 2 shits about anything but making money for himself is as dumb as it gets.


The entire point of this NK visit is to get a Trump branded hotel-resort on the Norkie beach front.
   92. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:41 AM (#5690224)
You think we're so innocent?


If we are, we won't be when Sam gets appointed Minister of Internal Security... an idea I am rapidly warming to.
   93. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:44 AM (#5690226)
If we are, we won't be when Sam gets appointed Minister of Internal Security


What the last 18 months should have taught you is that there's a non-zero probability that Pol Pot had a good point.
   94. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:46 AM (#5690227)
I can see why JE left the premises, even though he's still tweeting away. He might have to say something about this:

Trump-Kim summit: Trump says U.S. will end its ‘war games’ with South Korea
SINGAPORE — President Trump said he “developed a very special bond” with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un during their historic summit here Tuesday and proclaimed the start of a new era that could break a cycle of nuclear brinkmanship and stave off a military confrontation. ...

But Trump provided few specifics about what steps Kim would take to back up his promise to denuclearize his country and how the United States would verify that North Korea was keeping its pledge to get rid of its nuclear weapons, saying that would be worked out in future talks.

“We will do it as fast as it can mechanically and physically be done,” he said of the process to rid North Korea of nuclear weapons.

The result was a diplomatic breakthrough after decades of hostility, but no guarantee that North Korea would follow through. Trump grounded his optimism in his own confidence that he can read an adversary and that his gamble of attempting personal rapport with a dictator would pay off.

Trump said Kim agreed to shutter a missile engine testing site and to allow the return of remains of American service members lost in North Korea during the Korean War more than 60 years ago.

Kim, it seems, got at least one benefit up front.

Trump announced that he will order an end to regular “war games” that the United States conducts with ally South Korea, a reference to annual joint military exercises that are an irritant to North Korea.

Trump called the exercises “very provocative” and “inappropriate” in light of the optimistic opening he sees with North Korea. Ending the exercises would also save money, Trump said.

The United States has conducted such exercises for decades as a symbol of unity with Seoul and previously rejected North Korean complaints as illegitimate. Ending the games would be a significant political benefit for Kim, but Trump insisted he did not give up leverage. ...
   95. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5690228)
This whole embracing of our enemies (Putin, Kim, etc) can't be seen as a "heel turn" (unless you're an idiot who didn't see Trump as a heel in the first place). It's exactly what makes sense. Trump is the spoiled brat who is punishing the people who mocked him, with the help of the imbeciles who support him without giving them anything but crumbs.
   96. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5690230)
I can see why JE left the premises


Eventually eating Trump-#### has to get old for him, I suppose.
   97. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5690232)
I can see why JE left the premises, even though he's still tweeting away. He might have to say something about this:


Why? I don't see "Iran" anywhere in there. :)
   98. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:51 AM (#5690235)
And while Trump creates this chaos, this distraction, Ivanka, Don Jr, Jared, even Eric the Moron are using the family influence to make deals that will make them richer.

Chump change, my friend, chump change:

Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump made at least $82 million in outside income last year while serving in the White House, filings show
Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, the president’s daughter and son-in-law, brought in at least $82 million in outside income while serving as senior White House advisers during 2017, according to financial disclosure forms released Monday.

Trump earned $3.9 million from her stake in the Trump International Hotel in Washington and more than $2 million in severance from the Trump Organization, while Kushner reported over $5 million in income from Quail Ridge, a Kushner Cos. apartment complex acquired last year in Plainsboro, N.J.

The filings show how the couple are collecting immense sums from other enterprises while serving in the White House, an extraordinary income flow that ethics experts have warned could create potential conflicts of interests.

Both Kushner and Trump have given up daily oversight of their companies as they work as unpaid senior advisers to the president.

But while Kushner divested some holdings, he and his wife have maintained large stakes in businesses with domestic and foreign ties. Kushner’s family real estate company has properties around the country, including thousands of apartment units in states including New Jersey and Maryland. Trump’s eponymous clothing and accessories line is produced exclusively in foreign factories in countries such as Bangladesh, Indonesia and China. ...

In an email statement, Peter Mirijanian — a spokesman for Abbe Lowell, Kushner’s and Trump’s ethics counsel — said that the couple have followed all ethics rules and that Monday’s disclosures are an insufficient way to understand the [euphemism alert] nuances of their net worth. ...

   99. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5690240)
Right on cue, CNN is reporting Ivanka made 82 million last year. Jared made a ton, and is worth 710 million. But all of that is ok.
   100. Zonk was SHOCKED by #6! Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5690241)
I can see why JE left the premises


He's back at work finding the real colluders?
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