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Monday, June 11, 2018

OTP 2018 June 11: Sports, politics conflicted 50 years ago with mourning of RFK’s death

If you think the intersection – and conflict – of sports and politics is something new, well, you haven’t been paying close enough attention to either for a very long time.

Don’t think so? Check out President Trump’s pardon of the controversial African-American heavyweight champion Jack Johnson, who held the title more than 100 years ago. His reign was consumed by the politics of the day. So it is no surprise that the debate over NFL players and the national anthem remains a divisive topic.

Anything that is going to have the powerful symbolism of sports —and the ability to unite, as we have seen right here in Washington during the Capitals’ Stanley Cup playoffs run — is also going to generate enough passion to divide as well, in death as well as life.

That was the case 50 years ago, as Major League Baseball tried to cope with the proper way to mourn the death of New York Senator and Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy on June 6, 1968.

 

I almost linked to a story with the tag line “Miguel Cabrera stands next to Detroit’s “Rally Goose” during the first game of a doubleheader vs. the Yankees on Monday. The Tigers lost the opener but won the nightcap” but opted for history instead of the goose.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 07:41 AM | 1349 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: boxing, death, hockey, off-topic, politics, why can't we all just get along

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Page 14 of 14 pages ‹ First  < 12 13 14
   1301. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 04:12 AM (#5694179)
. . . and you can make a strong substantive argument that extending asylum to domestic violence or gang violence was a stretch . . .

Crime and poverty exist world-wide, and always have, but neither is normally considered to be political persecution, which is the basis for legitimate political asylum claims.
Right; the notion that domestic violence is grounds for asylum is only a couple of years old.
   1302. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 04:14 AM (#5694180)
you can make a strong substantive argument that extending asylum to domestic violence or gang violence was a stretch

Sure, as long as you buy into the administration's premise that morality has no place in asylum decisions, and remain indifferent to the real world consequences.
I believe you confuse the attorney general with the pope.
   1303. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 06:12 AM (#5694181)
SCOTT ADAMS' BLOG
PODCAST
Episode 107: The Holocaust Movie Half the Country is Experiencing


ICE agent in PR photo has Iron Cross tattoo.
   1304. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 06:45 AM (#5694182)
I believe you confuse the attorney general with the pope


They both hide behind biblical authority to justify child abuse.
   1305. Lassus Posted: June 18, 2018 at 07:35 AM (#5694184)
Right; the notion that domestic violence is grounds for asylum is only a couple of years old.

And?
   1306. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 07:37 AM (#5694185)
Comrade Cockholster still popular overseas.

Hosts of a show on Russian state-run TV channel Russia 24 celebrated President Donald Trump reportedly claiming to other world leaders that Crimea is part of Russia because everyone there speaks Russian...At the end of the program, "60 Minutes" co-host Olga Skabeeva triumphantly declared "Crimea is ours! Trump is ours!"


No puppet?

No, puppet.
   1307. . Posted: June 18, 2018 at 07:44 AM (#5694186)
And?


And could the gun nuttery here and the attendant violence justify Americans gaining political asylum anywhere in the world? How about a Chicago southsider?

When crime rates were three times higher than now, in the 80s and early 90s, were Americans entitled to political asylum?(*)

The splitting up families thing is absurd and ridiculous -- and must be fixed immediately -- but there's no need to go nutso in the other direction. Why do you people always, always, always do that?

(*) Moreover, if you have a bona fide asylum claim, or want to take a bona fide shot at it, there's no reason to enter the country other than in actual entry points. Why come in illegally in that scenario?
   1308. . Posted: June 18, 2018 at 07:50 AM (#5694187)
Hosts of a show on Russian state-run TV channel Russia 24 celebrated President Donald Trump reportedly claiming to other world leaders that Crimea is part of Russia because everyone there speaks Russian...At the end of the program, "60 Minutes" co-host Olga Skabeeva triumphantly declared "Crimea is ours! Trump is ours!"


In other words, Trump is saying pretty much exactly what the modern liberal brigade was saying on these here boards contemporaneously with the seizure and the later invasion of E Ukraine.

Ball don't lie, archives don't lie.
   1309. Lassus Posted: June 18, 2018 at 07:53 AM (#5694188)
I love the citation of archives that aren't actually presented.
   1310. Lassus Posted: June 18, 2018 at 07:56 AM (#5694190)
Also, regarding your use of the word "exactly".....
   1311. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:00 AM (#5694191)
"Pretty much exactly." Be fair. Like, not exactly. Almost exactly. But different.
   1312. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:18 AM (#5694193)
So I submitted the new thread (good).

I am still half asleep and hit submit before adding the "OTP 2018 June 6" prefix (bad).

So success?
   1313. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:23 AM (#5694194)
So the pressure is ratcheting up regarding Trump and his baby snatching policy. People from across the political spectrum are speaking out against it. Great leverage to use against Democrats. Another few months of this horrible pressure and Democrats are bound to surrender and give GOP President Trump anything he wants just to stop the massive flood of bad press hammering GOP President Trump as the midterms approach. Or, you know, not.

What a moron. At this point either Trump caves, changes his policy and looks weak, or he stands tall and gets destroyed in the press and in the minds of voters going to the polls in a few months. Meanwhile the material for election ads keeps piling up.
   1314. perros Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:25 AM (#5694196)


ICE agent in PR photo has Iron Cross tattoo.


Heritage not hate Seriously. Germany still uses the Iron Cross sans swastika, which was a Nazi addition to a traditional Prussian/German emblem. Lumping people unnecessarily into a basket of deplorables is a demonstrably bad idea. ICE is bad enough without resorting to smear tactics.

It's embarrassing when people get their panties in a Twitter wad.
   1315. perros Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5694197)
Regardless, yesterday's WC result was sweet.
   1316. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:28 AM (#5694198)
So I submitted the new thread (good).


Is it about Rob Manfred saying he was ok with gambling on baseball as long as he got his beak wet?
   1317. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:30 AM (#5694199)
Heritage not hate Seriously. Germany still uses the Iron Cross sans swastika


"I'm not a white supremacist! I'm an innocent Teutonophile! Ich bin ein schvanzholster!"
   1318. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:48 AM (#5694202)
Is it about Rob Manfred saying he was ok with gambling on baseball as long as he got his beak wet?


Nah, another Congressional Baseball game article. I couldn't sleep last night and am really tired. Finding a good article and then submitting it properly was way past my current capabilities. I hope caffeine helps. Soon.
   1319. DavidFoss Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:49 AM (#5694203)
Your tiresome claim that the left's whim-of-the-day trumps the actual law is without any basis.

I understand that triggering the libs is half the fun of winning elections, but maybe if you've triggered Laura Bush enough to write an op-ed in Washington Post, you've gone too far?

And the administration won't own what they're doing. The original "drive the liberals insane" author says they want to have it both ways.

The CBP itself has released photos of children in chain-link-fence-walled rooms sleeping with foil blankets. Is that going to help calm this news cycle down? Isn't there a better way to clamp down on unwanted immigration that doesn't involve such negative publicity?

   1320. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:53 AM (#5694204)
In other words, Trump is saying pretty much exactly what the modern liberal brigade was saying on these here boards contemporaneously with the seizure and the later invasion of E Ukraine.

Ball don't lie


Indeed, the orange ones on your chin tell me everything I need to know.
   1321. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:57 AM (#5694205)
The problem is that Congress -- both parties -- prefers the current situation. Otherwise they'd act to ameliorate it.


This is not true.

There have been at least three separate bills that would have passed both chambers but have been denied floor votes by combinations of Boehner, Ryan, and McConnell - two in the last 6 months.
   1322. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 08:59 AM (#5694206)
It takes two to lie Zonk - one to lie and one to listen. You're just as guilty as he is.
   1323. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:01 AM (#5694208)
Ball don't lie, archives don't lie.
But FLTB does.
   1324. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:05 AM (#5694209)
Alternative facts.
   1325. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:06 AM (#5694210)
My ancestors didn't die in the massacre at Bowling Green for this...
   1326. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5694211)
Uh-oh...
He's lost the Mooch...

“He has to step in there and has to end this thing because I think it is an inhumane and atrocious policy,” he told CNN’s Alisyn Camerota. “It is offensive to the average American…and does not represent American values.”
   1327. . Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5694212)
But FLTB does.


Isn't it pretty to think so?
   1328. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5694213)
HUH. Would that it were so simple!
   1329. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:24 AM (#5694218)
In other words, Trump is saying pretty much exactly what the modern liberal brigade was saying on these here boards contemporaneously with the seizure and the later invasion of E Ukraine.


2294. I Am Merely a Fake Lawyer Posted: March 20, 2014 at 03:31 PM (#4674585)
Crimea -- nothing we can do, it's over.

Eastern Ukraine -- I'd give up in a deal including Russia's agreement to the rest of Ukraine becoming part of NATO and the EU, if the EUks voted in a free and fair election that they wanted to go.

Western Ukraine -- That's my red line. If Russia's willing to take that by force, they're willing to take Estonia, etc., by force.

   1330. Greg K Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:26 AM (#5694219)
Easy there, Lawrence Laurentz.

EDIT: Wow, I didn't realize old Hobie Doyle was playing Han Solo.
   1331. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:30 AM (#5694221)
Easy there, Lawrence Laurentz.


This was the funniest scene in an otherwise rambling and unfocused movie.

But holy cow was this funny. I literally couldn't stop laughing. This is the best thing this actor will ever do - I think the recent box office receipts confirm this.
   1332. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5694225)
So, the Feds contract with agencies to put these kids into foster care, and the agencies (at least one, whose director was just interviewed on CNN) say that the kids should never have been taken away from their parents in the first place. This is some cluster ####.
   1333. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:44 AM (#5694228)
Now that Trump is president he is protected by the Secret Service for the rest of his life. He gets to call people "sick losers" on Twitter without having to worry about getting punched out, if he ever ran into anyone he's insulted like that.
   1334. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:46 AM (#5694230)
He's lost the Mooch...


Most political maneuvers try to unite your side and split the other side. It is politics 101, though obviously difficult to master. The brilliance of Trump's immigration masterstroke is it utterly unifies his opposition and rips asunder not just families, not just crying babies from their sobbing mothers, it also tears apart the GOP. The hard right racists and xenophobes love it, but many others are horrified.

It also has amazing visuals, a very simple easy story with heroes and villains so clear and simple no one can fail to get the point, and it also strikes right to the heart of a central pillar of Trumpism.

I am amazed at how politically suicidal the whole affair is. All Democrats need to do now is let Trump be Trump and avoid sending out a lifeboat for Trump and the GOP.
   1335. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5694233)
EDIT: Wow, I didn't realize old Hobie Doyle was playing Han Solo.


It's literally the only thing I know about the "Solo" movie. Not interested in seeing it, but I did see "Incredibles 2" this weekend and that was perfectly acceptable entertainment. It's the only place you can hear an angry, exasperated Samuel Jackson not using profanity.
   1336. DavidFoss Posted: June 18, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5694238)
I am amazed at how politically suicidal the whole affair is. All Democrats need to do now is let Trump be Trump and avoid sending out a lifeboat for Trump and the GOP.

Eh... they've been committing monthly political suicide for quite a while now, yet the GOP still controls all three branches of government. You could argue that moving the center of political debate to "cages vs chain-link-partitions" is a big win for them.
   1337. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:00 AM (#5694241)
Eh... they've been committing monthly political suicide for quite a while now, yet the GOP still controls all three branches of government.

There's not much that can be done with this Congress about the judiciary, but it's not as if November's congressional elections are likely to see a repeat of 2016.
   1338. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5694242)
Eh... they've been committing monthly political suicide for quite a while now, yet the GOP still controls all three branches of government. You could argue that moving the center of political debate to "cages vs chain-link-partitions" is a big win for them.


Yeah, I don't agree. This is much closer to Trump's Katrina than it is the scandal of the week. In any event, even if it is not, you realize that the GOP has been being destroyed in elections since Trump got elected, right?

Business as usual under GOP President Trump is terrible for GOP politicians on election day, so even if I am wrong it is hardly a good sign for Republicans.

EDIT: And how exactly could this be a "big win"? Like seriously, I am asking in what fashion is this a win of any sort, big or small? I am not seeing that at all, but I am interested in your thoughts, since I am hardly infallible so an alternate view on the matter is welcome.
   1339. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5694243)
I am amazed at how politically suicidal the whole affair is. All Democrats need to do now is let Trump be Trump and avoid sending out a lifeboat for Trump and the GOP.


You still think he and they are talking to you. He's not. He's talking to those who would support his regime in perpetuity.
   1340. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5694246)
You still think he and they are talking to you. He's not. He's talking to those who would support his regime in perpetuity.


???

Um, what? I am trying to analyze the political consequences of what I am seeing. That has zero to do with whatever the heck it is you are talking about. But yeah, good talk.
   1341. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:22 AM (#5694247)
Yeah, I don't agree. This is much closer to Trump's Katrina than it is the scandal of the week. In any event, even if it is not, you realize that the GOP has been being destroyed in elections since Trump got elected, right?


Trump's Katrina was in Puerto Rico.

   1342. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:25 AM (#5694250)
Kanye on Katrina: "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Kanye on Puerto Rico: "Trump is my homie, certified wavy, gonna give him the fresh new Yeezys y'all!"
   1343. DavidFoss Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5694251)
EDIT: And how exactly could this be a "big win"? Like seriously, I am asking in what fashion is this a win of any sort, big or small? I am not seeing that at all, but I am interested in your thoughts, since I am hardly infallible so an alternate view on the matter is welcome.

I'm being a bit glib. I am not personally a fan of using the current scandal to make people forget about the previous scandal. But, in some bizarre twisted sense, it seems to be working. People have grown extremely numb to all this.

There is a worry that 'peak public backlash' to Trump was last fall. That although the Democrats have done extremely well in isolated special elections here and there, they are still very much in the minority. That's all I meant.
   1344. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5694258)
I'm being a bit glib. I am not personally a fan of using the current scandal to make people forget about the previous scandal. But, in some bizarre twisted sense, it seems to be working. People have grown extremely numb to all this.

There is a worry that 'peak public backlash' to Trump was last fall. That although the Democrats have done extremely well in isolated special elections here and there, they are still very much in the minority. That's all I meant.


But it's not "here and there" -- it's been across the country. South, Midwest, great plains, you name it. We've had nearly a hundred special elections - state and federal - since Trump's inauguration, plus the off-year NJ and VA elections. The pattern is unmistakable - Dems aren't just 'over-performing'... they're wiping the table. No small part of this has been the visceral anti-Trump mood. 43 flipped state seats. The early 2017 "close but no cigar" has been replaced by Jones, Lamb, and we've got another special coming up in Ohio in about 8 weeks. The VA governor's race was supposed to be competitive - it wasn't... not even close - on top of the Dems coming within about 50 votes of shockingly flipping one chamber.

Polling is now starting to report "enthusiasm' - and the gap is enormous, 20-25 pts. Trump backlash hasn't peaked - it's still building.
   1345. Traderdave Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:37 AM (#5694259)
It's the only place you can hear an angry, exasperated Samuel Jackson not using profanity.


The Red Violin has same. It's also an excellent movie, very much worth watching.
   1346. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5694264)
I am trying to analyze the political consequences of what I am seeing.


You're still making believe this is still a political question.
   1347. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5694276)
You're still making believe this is still a political question.


You are about two steps from standing on a corner, wearing a sandwich board and yelling at passers by. This is a politics thread. Of course I am discussing recent events from a political perspective. Put down the crack pipe sparky, you have had enough.
   1348. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5694279)
Trump's Katrina was in Puerto Rico.


Literally? Sure. From a political consequence standpoint? Not really I don't think. Sadly few seemingly cared about Puerto Rico and the botched response to it. I don't get it, but it appears so to me anyway.
   1349. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 18, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5694280)
So who wants to be the first to post in the new (though unlabeled) OTP thread?
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