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Monday, June 11, 2018

OTP 2018 June 11: Sports, politics conflicted 50 years ago with mourning of RFK’s death

If you think the intersection – and conflict – of sports and politics is something new, well, you haven’t been paying close enough attention to either for a very long time.

Don’t think so? Check out President Trump’s pardon of the controversial African-American heavyweight champion Jack Johnson, who held the title more than 100 years ago. His reign was consumed by the politics of the day. So it is no surprise that the debate over NFL players and the national anthem remains a divisive topic.

Anything that is going to have the powerful symbolism of sports —and the ability to unite, as we have seen right here in Washington during the Capitals’ Stanley Cup playoffs run — is also going to generate enough passion to divide as well, in death as well as life.

That was the case 50 years ago, as Major League Baseball tried to cope with the proper way to mourn the death of New York Senator and Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy on June 6, 1968.

 

I almost linked to a story with the tag line “Miguel Cabrera stands next to Detroit’s “Rally Goose” during the first game of a doubleheader vs. the Yankees on Monday. The Tigers lost the opener but won the nightcap” but opted for history instead of the goose.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 07:41 AM | 1349 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: boxing, death, hockey, off-topic, politics, why can't we all just get along

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   401. McCoy Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:40 PM (#5690846)
you flaming fool
   402. zenbitz Posted: June 12, 2018 at 08:42 PM (#5690847)


Uh... Light the SBB signal without clicking "code" instead of "quote" this time???

The study by the team consisted of analyzing IQ test results from young men entering Norway's national service (compulsory military duty) during the years 1970 to 2009. In all, 730,000 test results were accounted for. In studying the data, the researchers found that scores declined by an average of seven points per generation, a clear reversal of test results going back approximately 70 years.


   403. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:14 PM (#5690868)
Primary updates...

The VA GOP looks like its going to have a real winner of a statewide drag on its hands just like the CA GOP - Minnesota-born-and-raised confederate apologist Corey Stewart has been called as the winner to take on Tim Kaine. You can probably stick a fork in Comstock - and there are as many as three more GOP-held seats that won't get any easier to hold. Probably time to just call Virginia blue already - the GOP hasn't won a statewide race since 2009 and only the unfavorable map keeps the GOP in control of the state legislature (and just barely, at that).

Down in SC, sitting governor Henry McMaster is heading to a runoff - though he's got a comfortable plurality. Mark Sanford also looks cooked - he's down 7 points and the Trumpkin who challenged him is 2.5 points over the 50% needed to avoid a runoff. Unfortunately for the GOP - the best news of the night thus far is that admitted wife-beater Archie Parnell looks to be the winner on the D side in SC-5. Parnell gave Ralph Norman a serious scare in this year's special election (prior to the abuse coming to light). The DNC and DCCC have already said Parnell will be getting no help from them (and most of Parnell's staff also quit when the abuse came to light). Missed opportunity for the Dems.

   404. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:35 PM (#5690886)
It's Trumpkins all the way down in the GOP.
   405. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:45 PM (#5690900)
It's Trumpkins all the way down in the GOP.


That's because the GOP is dead. It's the Trump party now, wholly owned and operated. A party which is pro protectionism, pro Russia, China, and North Korea, anti NATO, anti FBI and CIA, and as we have learned today, anti military preparedness and anti business. And Trump's support among what used to be know as Republican voters is at record levels. What a world.
   406. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:48 PM (#5690902)
It’s you elitist liberals fault for canceling Hee Haw.
   407. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 12, 2018 at 09:53 PM (#5690906)
You can probably stick a fork in Comstock

Quite premature, to say the least. Comstock won by 6% in a district Hillary Clinton won by 10% in 2016, when Democrats went all out to defeat her, and spent massively in the effort. She's never had much help from the top of the ballot, and there aren't that many voters in VA-10 who haven't already formed an opinion about her from the hotly contested prior campaigns. Unfortunately, whoever the GOP nominated for the Senate wouldn't have had much of a chance against Kaine, who remains popular when people remember who he is. The better primary candidate for Senate was a complete unknown outside his own House of Delegates district, and likely would not have done any better if nominated.
   408. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 12, 2018 at 10:28 PM (#5690934)
You can probably stick a fork in Comstock

Quite premature, to say the least. Comstock won by 6% in a district Hillary Clinton won by 10% in 2016, when Democrats went all out to defeat her, and spent massively in the effort. She's never had much help from the top of the ballot, and there aren't that many voters in VA-10 who haven't already formed an opinion about her from the hotly contested prior campaigns. Unfortunately, whoever the GOP nominated for the Senate wouldn't have had much of a chance against Kaine, who remains popular when people remember who he is. The better primary candidate for Senate was a complete unknown outside his own House of Delegates district, and likely would not have done any better if nominated.

You're right that it's too early to make a prediction about Comstock, but if there's ever been a Republican who's guaranteed to maximize Democratic turnout, it's Corey Stewart, a Joe Arpaio clone who can only be expected to motivate Democrats even more with every passing day. If anything, he's even viler than Trump himself.
   409. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 10:35 PM (#5690938)
36. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 06:01 AM (#5690132)

...

Her meeting provoked anger and confusion among Trump’s critics.

False. Complete lie. It provoked mockery over the fact that a reality TV star is making policy. (And Kim Kardashian, too.)


From the same piece I linked to:

And in an expletive-laden piece in Complex magazine, Michael Arceneaux wrote, “Those folks are unlikely to do anything about Alice Marie Johnson. They just wanted a photo op and much-needed good press. Kardashian meant well, bless her heart, but I hate that she provided them with that.”


Anger. Confusion.

But tell me, Oh Libertarian One. Do you agree with Trump's pardoning of Alice Marie Johnson?
   410. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 12, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5690939)
Oh my gosh! Andy used the quote box in #408!!! Finally!
   411. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 10:47 PM (#5690944)
Rudy, Rudy, Rudy
Rudy Giuliani’s wife told The Post on Tuesday that her estranged husband is lying when he says he hasn’t been having an affair — and insisted that the illicit relationship began before they were separated.

As The Post exclusively reported Tuesday, Giuliani has been cheating on wife Judith Nathan with married New Hampshire hospital administrator Maria Rosa Ryan, according to sources."


Shocking that what goes around has now come around for Nathan.
   412. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:02 PM (#5690946)
And in an expletive-laden piece in Complex magazine, Michael Arceneaux wrote, “Those folks are unlikely to do anything about Alice Marie Johnson. They just wanted a photo op and much-needed good press. Kardashian meant well, bless her heart, but I hate that she provided them with that.”


I only know who two of those proper nouns are... I know who Alice Johnson is - and I know what a Kardashian is.

Wikipedia and its homepage say that Complex magazine is "Complex is an American New York-based media platform for youth culture which was founded as a bi-monthly magazine by fashion designer Marc (Ecko) Milecofsky.[3] Complex reports on trends in style, pop culture, music, sports and sneakers with a focus on streetwear, sneaker culture, hip hop, and graphic art. "

Michael Arceneaux does not have a wikipedia page, so I do not know who he is, exactly - but he seems to have a fair number of Twitter followers, he's got a book coming out called "I Can't Date Jesus", and he clearly hates Trump, so the best I can say is that he's got one definite positive mark in his favor.

I further see that they apparently gave Kim her first photo shoot or something?

Hmmmm...

It's almost as if there's a flaw in the idea that black folk might march behind Kanye and Kim in Trump love...
   413. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:09 PM (#5690949)
Here's the Arceneaux piece, Zonk, so you can read it for yourself from your safe harbor in Canada.
   414. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:10 PM (#5690950)
Shocker.

North Korea’s state news agency KCNA reported Wednesday (local time) that US President Donald Trump agreed to lift sanctions on North Korea, in addition to agreeing to halt military exercises and other security guarantees.

According to South Korea’s Yonhap News Agency, KCNA reported: “Trump expressed his intention to halt the U.S.-South Korea joint military exercises, which the DPRK side regards as provocation, over a period of good-will dialogue between the DPRK and the U.S., offer security guarantees to the DPRK and lift sanctions against it along with advance in improving the mutual relationship through dialogue and negotiation.”


Be honest.

How many people honestly think they're even lying?

Had any other President blundered into the last week's worth of foreign policy debacle dipshitdom, I'd still suspect NK is lying.

In this case? I'd probably put the line at 70-30 Trump actually said exactly this. Maybe 80-20.
   415. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5690951)
Oh my gosh! Andy used the quote box in #408!!! Finally!

Not sure what you're talking about. Ordinarily I use the quote tab several times a day, probably many thousands of times since I started posting around here.
   416. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:15 PM (#5690954)
But tell me, Oh Libertarian One.

Lmao, RDP mocking someone else’s libertarian streak. Still some time left in the day - any new ideas for how Trump can get the black vote? Or are you fine tuning your plan to have a frustrated segment of society place their hopes that the conman occupying the White House will get around to pardoning a few hundred people with the same skin color? Step two would be...sitting back, feet on the desk in your Trump apartment, thinking about how better you are than everyone? Then watch those 2020 votes come rolling in.
   417. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5690956)
against Kaine, who remains popular when people remember who he is

What does this supposed putdown even mean?
   418. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:24 PM (#5690958)
Lmao, RDP mocking someone else’s libertarian streak. Still some time left in the day - any new ideas for how Trump can get the black vote? Or are you fine tuning your plan to have a frustrated segment of society place their hopes that the conman occupying the White House will get around to pardoning a few hundred people with the same skin color? Step two would be...sitting back, feet on the desk in your Trump apartment, thinking about how better you are than everyone? Then watch those 2020 votes come rolling in.


I don't actually see any substance to your criticisms. But let's start here: Do you think it would be a good thing if Trump gave special pardon attention to African Americans who were wronged by the system?
   419. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5690959)
Oh my gosh! Andy used the quote box in #408!!! Finally!

Not sure what you're talking about. Ordinarily I use the quote tab several times a day, probably many thousands of times since I started posting around here.

I thought you were committed to a "system" that mixed italics and bold, and sometimes bold italics, while avoiding the quote box, despite some folks here finding it confusing? I guess I missed consciously noticing your sliding back to normalcy until the formatting of #408 caught my attention for some reason.
   420. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5690960)
Here's the Arceneaux piece, Zonk, so you can read it for yourself from your safe harbor in Canada.


Back in the states, hon. I'm afraid the concessions accepted must be remitted in US dollars now.

In any case, I'll pass. I've got nothing against 'youth culture' - indeed, I look forward to our young overlords and am increasingly looking forward to my golden years under their governance and leadership - but, I know who I am and am comfortable with it. If ever the latest in fashion trends meant much to me, I'm past that age. I'm pretty much a khakis and oxfords guy any more. I don't call them sneakers - I call them shoes, and primarily, I look for durability and comfort. I do enjoy keeping current with music enjoyed by the younger set, but that's more a matter of just having fairly broad tastes in music and believing that a good tune is a good tune no matter the genre.

Unless.... are there good anti-Trump turn-of-phrases? Clever, inventive - even if vulgar or profane - ones... His recent twitter posts refer to "Real Estate Hitler" so come on... Clown Hitler was better and people got all pissy about that one, what... more than a year ago? Hell, truth to be told - I got bored with it, but did my damnedest to keep it in circulation because it bothered the 'right' people. That's how we do things now, right? Bother the 'right' people? The land's highest calling in the Trump era?
   421. greenback slays lewks Posted: June 12, 2018 at 11:39 PM (#5690963)
Somebody dug up this old WSJ article on how to influence Trump:
Around the same time, Mr. Trump had an idea about how to counter the nuclear threat posed by North Korea, which he got after speaking to Russian President Vladimir Putin : If the U.S. stopped joint military exercises with the South Koreans, it could help moderate Kim Jong Un’s behavior. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis used an approach that aides say can work: “He says, ‘Your instincts are absolutely correct,’ and then gets him [the president] to do the exact opposite of what his instincts say,” said one person close to the White House. Mr. Trump dropped the idea, although he has ordered aides to give the exercises a low profile, eliminating press releases and briefings about them.

   422. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:09 AM (#5690967)
Trump is like tutorial mode for every 4x video gam ever.

"Montezuma has offered you one silk and 4 gold per turn for one spices. Montezuma has two silk available for trade while you have five spices. No other leader you have met has extra silk for trade. This is advantageous trade for you. Select 'Accept Trade', 'Reject Trade', or 'Counter Propose' from the selections below".
   423. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:22 AM (#5690969)
There isn't a vacancy on the Supreme Court at the moment, but that hasn't stopped one liberal group from running ads attacking two sitting Federal Judges, who happen to be on Trump's list of potential Supreme Court nominees. Undoubtedly mostly a fund-raising ploy - Brian Fallon needs a job - but not a good look.
   424. greenback slays lewks Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:22 AM (#5690970)
I wish this damn racoon would go to the roof or walk back down to the ground so I can go to bed.
   425. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:23 AM (#5690971)
Canadian House of Commons passes a resolution - unanimously - condemning the Trump administration.

Absolutely surreal.

The US President is - tonight - being feted in Pyongyang and condemned in Ottawa, Paris, and Berlin.


Surreal.

   426. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:25 AM (#5690973)
From the same piece I linked to:
And in an expletive-laden piece in Complex magazine, Michael Arceneaux wrote, “Those folks are unlikely to do anything about Alice Marie Johnson. They just wanted a photo op and much-needed good press. Kardashian meant well, bless her heart, but I hate that she provided them with that.”
Anger. Confusion.
Neither anger nor confusion. Try again. Moreover, who the #### is Michael Arceneaux? Why are you claiming that one guy that nobody on the planet has ever heard of is "Trump's critics"? (For that matter, why are you claiming that Michael Arceneaux's piece was "expletive-laden?")
   427. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:25 AM (#5690974)
Sanford concedes and endorses the Trumpkin who beat him.

Guess those alimony payments could use a lobbying job.
   428. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:34 AM (#5690978)
I wish this damn racoon would go to the roof or walk back down to the ground so I can go to bed

I assume the noble Bitter Mouse is even now stationed beneath the UBS Tower, poised to catch a fellow varmint plunging from the upper floors. Will be gravely disappointed if it turns out he's a cul-de-sac slacker who did nothing in this time of need.
   429. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:34 AM (#5690979)
Michael Arceneaux has 33k twitter followers. Or - about 4,567,400 fewer than Logan Paul.
   430. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:39 AM (#5690980)
Neither anger nor confusion. Try again.


Okay.

Anger:

"While I do not question Kardashian’s sincerity, I wish she had sat somewhere and ate her food instead of engaging that apricot-hued a--hole."

Confusion:

"Those folks are unlikely to do anything about Alice Marie Johnson. They just wanted a photo op and much-needed good press."

Moreover, who the #### iOS Michael Arceneaux? Why are you claiming that one guy that nobody on the planet has ever heard of is "Trump's critics"?


I'm not claiming that. Karol Markowicz is. She's the one who wrote the piece I linked to and quoted from. And even she's not claiming that; she cited more than just Arceneaux, but I didn't want to be Andy and quote the whole thing.

(For that matter, why are you claiming that Michael Arceneaux's piece was "expletive-laden?")


Take it nice and easy. I'm not claiming that. Karol Markowicz is. She's the one who wrote the piece I linked to and quoted from.

You're having a tough time today.

At any rate, expletive:

"While I do not question Kardashian’s sincerity, I wish she had sat somewhere and ate her food instead of engaging that apricot-hued a--hole."

Granted a single expletive wouldn't count as expletive-"laden." Yay?

But I note that even after all of that smoke-blowing, you couldn't bring yourself to answer whether you agree with Trump's pardon of Alice Marie Johnson.
   431. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:44 AM (#5690982)
Anger:

"While I do not question Kardashian’s sincerity, I wish she had sat somewhere and ate her food instead of engaging that apricot-hued #######."
Doesn't sound angry to me. Disappointed, maybe even exasperated. But angry? Not even close.
Confusion:

"Those folks are unlikely to do anything about Alice Marie Johnson. They just wanted a photo op and much-needed good press."
Nope. That's not confusion.

I'm not claiming that. Karol Markowicz is.
I knew you were such a weasel you would try to make that argument. You quoted and endorsed it. That means you're claiming it.

Granted a single expletive wouldn't count as expletive-"laden." Yay?
It's actually two expletives in the piece; you missed "Of course, her choice to take a meeting with Sweet Potato Saddam is not nearly as bad as her husband declaring a “love” for that racist, sexist, xenophobic, ignorant piece of ####." Which still doesn't make it "expletive laden," unless Chris Davis is a slugger because he has hit 4 home runs this year.
   432. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:45 AM (#5690983)

But I note that even after all of that smoke-blowing, you couldn't bring yourself to answer whether you agree with Trump's pardon of Alice Marie Johnson.
You sound very much like Andy, but as I always tell him, I don't need to jump through anyone's hoops.
   433. Shredder Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:46 AM (#5690984)
In this case? I'd probably put the line at 70-30 Trump actually said exactly this. Maybe 80-20.
There's an old, Michael Moriarty era Law and Order episode where he's trying to prosecute people in the Russian Mafia. Ben Stone needs a key player to testify, but also wants to send that guy up. So he makes the mobster a deal. If he testifies, New York County won't prosecute. Of course, most of the criminal activity the mobster was involved in occurred in Brighton Beach, located in Kings County. The mobster's dumb lawyer agrees, Stone gets his testimony, and the mobster goes to prison.

Trump is the dumb lawyer, who's big downfall is thinking he's really good at making deals. Kim Jong Un says "meet with me as an equal, stop the wargames, get rid of sanctions, and I will 'work toward denuclarization of the Korean peninsula'" with "work toward" in the Charles Atlas role. Trump hears "de-nuke" and says "Deal, I win!". He (we) gets nothing, Kim Jong Un gets more than he could have hoped for, Trump declares victory, and the rubes eat it up. Between this and his complete embarrassment at the G-7, are we sure he's not just really Putin in a Trump mask?
   434. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:47 AM (#5690985)
Doesn't sound angry to me. Disappointed, maybe even exasperated. But angry? Not even close.


Uh huh.

Confusion:

"Those folks are unlikely to do anything about Alice Marie Johnson. They just wanted a photo op and much-needed good press."


Nope. That's not confusion.


Sure it is. He's confused about how to read Trump. He has no idea.

AMJ got her pardon. Trump's team wasn't just using Kardashian for press and a photo op.
   435. perros Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:49 AM (#5690986)

how to influence Trump:

You might note the mainstays of this administration are a pair of generals with some knowledge and experience of psychological operations.
   436. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:54 AM (#5690988)
Sure it is. He's confused about how to read Trump. He has no idea.
Nope. No confusion. You, on the other hand, routinely evince confusion over what predictions are.

AMJ got her pardon. Trump's team wasn't just using Kardashian for press and a photo op.
Um, yes, they were.
   437. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:54 AM (#5690989)
"But I note that even after all of that smoke-blowing, you couldn't bring yourself to answer whether you agree with Trump's pardon of Alice Marie Johnson."

You sound very much like Andy, but as I always tell him, I don't need to jump through anyone's hoops.


I mean, I wasn't going to have the cake baking police force you to answer the question or anything. But it shows your insincerity. You said the Kardashian meeting provoked mockery over the fact that a reality TV star was making policy. That's all well and good... but you left out the little fact -- you won't admit it but I know it's true -- that you agree with the "policy" Trump made in this case. You agree with the Alice Marie Johnson pardon. Yet you carry on as if Trump did something stupid.
   438. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:57 AM (#5690990)
AMJ got her pardon. Trump's team wasn't just using Kardashian for press and a photo op.

Um, yes, they were.


Um, no, they weren't. They might have been using Kardashian for that. But even if so -- even if Trump didn't care about Alice Marie Johnson per se -- they weren't "just" using her for that, which was the original accusation. If they were "just" using Kardashian for that, Alice Marie Johnson wouldn't have gotten her pardon.

It's 1am. Maybe you need to get to bed?
   439. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:03 AM (#5690991)

Yet you carry on as if Trump did something stupid.
You are, as always, arguing in bad faith. Exercising executive clemency¹ based on celebrity appeals is stupid. (Indeed, it can't really be dignified with the term "policy" at all; it's just whim.)



¹Pedantry alert! Trump did not pardon Johnson.
   440. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:08 AM (#5690994)
Um, no, they weren't.
Um, yes, they were.
They might have been using Kardashian for that. But even if so -- even if Trump didn't care about Alice Marie Johnson per se -- they weren't "just" using her for that, which was the original accusation. If they were "just" using Kardashian for that, Alice Marie Johnson wouldn't have gotten her pardon.
That doesn't even remotely follow. I guess you're just showing confusion over how to read Trump. You have no idea. Granting Kardashian's request was the press and photo op.


(See, now if Trump said, "I'm going to order a review of the entire federal prison system to find everyone like Johnson to whom to grant clemency," that would be a policy. But, instead, he next started musing about pardoning a dead guy who wasn't even convicted of anything.)


EDIT: Since Ray argues in bad faith, I guess I need to spell out that no president has been good about executive clemency. I mean, Trump is worse than most because he has used it for outrageously undeserving people, but he's no worse than others in terms of his failure to use it for deserving people. (Though not all of the others have been as eager as him to put more people like Johnson in prison.)
   441. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:20 AM (#5690997)
BREAKING NEWS: Raccoon Headed Down Skyscraper:
A raccoon that captivated St. Paul and the internet on Tuesday after scaling a skyscraper was starting to make its way down late Tuesday night, CBS Minnesota reports. Earlier Tuesday afternoon, the raccoon had stopped on a ledge more than 20 stories high.

At about 10:30 p.m. CT, the raccoon began to descend from the 23rd floor, making it to the 14th floor about 15 minutes later.

Still no word of Bitter Mouse making the slightest effort on behalf of his fellow varmint.
   442. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 05:43 AM (#5691009)
Around the same time, Mr. Trump had an idea about how to counter the nuclear threat posed by North Korea, which he got after speaking to Russian President Vladimir Putin :


As was noted in last week’s thread, Putin recently mentioned that he speaks with Trump routinely, a claim I haven’t seen questioned or denied by Trump or any of the lickspittles who bumble behind him trying to clean up his stupid statements. So now I suppose we can move on to the more interesting questions: what do you suppose they talk about? Where does Mr. Putin rank on a list of foreign leaders Trump speaks to most often? Do you suppose Trump gets nervous anxiety when he knows Vlad is going to call, checking the unrung phone to make sure there’s a dial tone, angrily sending away his host of sycophants in anticipation? “Melanie leave me alone, I’m waiting to talk to Vlad!”
   443. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 05:53 AM (#5691010)
We learn how to avoid be suckered by hucksters at Ole Miss. I guess they don’t emphasize that at Wharton. Trump is such a mewling babe that he had to bring a pro-wrestling promoter into his administration to teach him not to be a mark, but it hasn’t stuck.
   444. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:00 AM (#5691019)
Trump is like tutorial mode for every 4x video gam ever.

"Montezuma has offered you one silk and 4 gold per turn for one spices. Montezuma has two silk available for trade while you have five spices. No other leader you have met has extra silk for trade. This is advantageous trade for you. Select 'Accept Trade', 'Reject Trade', or 'Counter Propose' from the selections below".

Reject trade. Never trust Montezuma. He's a dbag.
   445. BDC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:25 AM (#5691022)
Shocking that what goes around has now come around for Nathan

I was thinking a little about this, and like Lassus upthread, I'm not sure. "Goes around comes around" seems to me to apply to transitive situations, and relationships aren't transitive or even often very comparable to one another: to paraphrase Tolstoy, each one of Rudy Giuliani's bad marriages has been bad in a different way.

If you cheat people in business and somebody cheats you; if you beat up people in bars and somebody beats you up: for these situations we say "what goes around comes around." If you sleep with Rudy Giuliani – a far-fetched hypothetical, but it sometimes apparently happens – then somebody else sleeping with Rudy Giuliani is not direct payback.
   446. DavidFoss Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5691024)
At about 10:30 p.m. CT, the raccoon began to descend from the 23rd floor, making it to the 14th floor about 15 minutes later.

It turned back around and made it to the roof at 2:30 AM CDT! Local authorities said that they could not in good conscience risk a firefighter's life by dangling him out a window to try to save a raccoon, but animal control officials had live traps with food on the roof. I haven't heard more but I presume they're transporting the guy far away from downtown?
   447. TomH Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:31 AM (#5691025)
I hardly EVER post in the OT thread. I am happy there IS an OT thread, so I can usually read about BASEBALL in the other threads. Good decision all.

But I come today to mourn the party to which I belonged for 3 years, which for now has morphed into a sad state indeed. While it may not be a whole basket of deplorables, it certainly has a significant chunk of either bad fruit, or good fruit who got naively co-opted.

I registered with the GOP in the early or mid 80s. At the time, it seemed to me that taxes WERE too high and to complex, and the USSR DID need someone to stand up to it to win the cold war. I was pleased with Tax Reform and simplification of 1986; deductions for credit card interest were so foolish. I cheered when Clinton+Gingrich+et_al worked Welfare Reform in the 90s. I stayed with them when the Dems pushed ever harder to give free stuff to everyone

But This GOP.... the voters have gotten what they wished for. That is who I am most disappointed with, the Voters, not the politicians. The voters who believe Fox News and in recent primaries such as last night continue to believe that they need even more Trumpians to combat the "evils" of the other guys. The voters who refuse to acknowledge their own leader's tragic flaws and shortcomings should count more than his supposedly "right" standing on some issues. The voters I'm often embarrassed to call fellow "Christians".

May the current GOPD go down it flames like it deserves to, in 2018 and 2020, and maybe in 4 years a "kinder, gentler", reasonable party which keeps a watch on spending but also tried to balance the budget by raising revenue equal to spending, and at the same time returns discourse to "sane", be on the rise. Perhaps others will come around to being as disillusioned as me. I've thought about third party options, but Fiscally Responsible Bleeding Heart Conservative Trade-is-Good Immigration-is-Good Reward-Work-and-reward-Intact-Families doesn't seem to have a party.

...and, I like the Montezuma ref in 444.
   448. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:43 AM (#5691031)
Oh my gosh! Andy used the quote box in #408!!! Finally!

Not sure what you're talking about. Ordinarily I use the quote tab several times a day, probably many thousands of times since I started posting around here.

I thought you were committed to a "system" that mixed italics and bold, and sometimes bold italics, while avoiding the quote box, despite some folks here finding it confusing? I guess I missed consciously noticing your sliding back to normalcy until the formatting of #408 caught my attention for some reason.


The one constant here is that you don't seem to pay much attention. I've always used the quote box when quoting from news articles, and I've always used the quote box as I did in #408: To bring in the comments of a Primate whom I wasn't responding to directly. My own previous comments are always in bold italics, and the comments of the person I'm directly replying to are in lightface italics. It's really not that complicated.
   449. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:50 AM (#5691033)
Still no word of Bitter Mouse making the slightest effort on behalf of his fellow varmint.


Does sleeping soundly in my bed next to my wife count?
   450. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:51 AM (#5691034)
It's really not that complicated.


No, but it is idiosyncratic as heck. But I like diversity, so you be you.
   451. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:51 AM (#5691035)

But This GOP.... the voters have gotten what they wished for. That is who I am most disappointed with, the Voters, not the politicians. The voters who believe Fox News and in recent primaries such as last night continue to believe that they need even more Trumpians to combat the "evils" of the other guys. The voters who refuse to acknowledge their own leader's tragic flaws and shortcomings should count more than his supposedly "right" standing on some issues. The voters I'm often embarrassed to call fellow "Christians".

I've said it before, but the main difference between Trump and his base and the late George Wallace and his base before Arthur Bremer came along is that Trump's hardcore base today is so much bigger and national in scope than Wallace's ever was.** But their underlying "grievances" and their love of a serially lying demagogue are almost identical.

** And yet in terms of the popular vote, Wallace ran virtually neck-and-neck with George McGovern in the 1972 Democratic primaries, and won outright victories in several northern states like Michigan and Maryland. In many ways, the country was "lucky" that Richard Nixon was so successful in co-opting so many of Wallace's themes.
   452. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:53 AM (#5691037)
Quite premature, to say the least. Comstock won by 6% in a district Hillary Clinton won by 10% in 2016, when Democrats went all out to defeat her, and spent massively in the effort. She's never had much help from the top of the ballot, and there aren't that many voters in VA-10 who haven't already formed an opinion about her from the hotly contested prior campaigns. Unfortunately, whoever the GOP nominated for the Senate wouldn't have had much of a chance against Kaine, who remains popular when people remember who he is. The better primary candidate for Senate was a complete unknown outside his own House of Delegates district, and likely would not have done any better if nominated.


I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up the Clapper kiss of death.

I presume Comstock will be deciding against another run any day now.
   453. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 13, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5691039)
It's really not that complicated.

No, but it is idiosyncratic as heck. But I like diversity, so you be you.


Whatever idiosyncrasy there is stems from my wish to keep quotes in context, and that often involves quoting more than one person. No better way around that that I can think of.
   454. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:07 AM (#5691048)
Well, TomH - former VA Lt Gov Bill Bolling feels your pain...

After Stewart narrowly defeated Republican rival Nick Freitas on Tuesday, Virginia’s former lieutenant governor, Bill Bolling, said in a tweet, “I am extremely disappointed that a candidate like Corey Stewart could win the Republican nomination for U.S. Senate. This is clearly not the Republican Party I once knew, loved and proudly served. Every time I think things can’t get worse they do, and there is no end in sight.”
   455. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5691051)

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!
4:56 AM - Jun 13, 2018


I'm telling ya... I bet NK State TV wasn't lying about the sanctions promise.
   456. -- Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:16 AM (#5691053)
Well Al now there starting to realize that not just Tawny in Clevland has pull.
   457. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:19 AM (#5691054)
In other news of Trump's favorite dictators...

Mueller's grand jury just indicted Manafort on the same obstruction charges he's going to court with on Friday to get Manafort's bail revoked and send him to the pokey till trial.

What do I know, but it seems like having an indictment in-hand over the very matter you bringing to a judge to get bail revoked helps the motion...
   458. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5691062)
IMO, Kim K-W's pleading with Trump had little to do with the commutation of Alice Marie Johnson's sentence.

Now, the fact that one of the things AMJ was charged with was money-laundering, I think that had a lot to do with it.

A whole great big awful lot.
   459. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5691064)
But wait, there's more!

Longtime Trump fixer Michael Cohen has been telling friends he expects to be arrested shortly

Cohen has been telling friends he fears he will soon be indicted and arrested over the federal investigation he’s facing in New York, the source told the Daily News. Investigators are probing Cohen for bank fraud, wire fraud and campaign finance violations, potential offenses that resulted in FBI raids at his Manhattan home, hotel room and office in April.

“None of it is good,” the source said. “Michael is very stressed out.”


I guess North Korea is now available for Trumpkin fugitives...
   460. perros Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5691065)

We learn how to avoid be suckered by hucksters at Ole Miss.

Race hucksters, to be exact, but you applied those lessons in your spare study of rasslin' and politics.
   461. BDC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:45 AM (#5691071)
Hasn't Michael Cohen been expecting arrest since he was first admitted to Sugar Bear Law School? I gotta think a typical day for Michael Cohen starts with coffee, English muffin, slipping out the back alley to avoid federal agents …
   462. perros Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5691072)


maybe in 4 years a "kinder, gentler", reasonable party which keeps a watch on spending but also tried to balance the budget by raising revenue equal to spending


TFF
   463. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 09:50 AM (#5691073)
Hasn't Michael Cohen been expecting arrest since he was first admitted to Sugar Bear Law School? I gotta think a typical day with Michael Cohen starts with coffee, English muffin, slipping out the back alley to avoid federal agents …


Probably - though, I believe the special master just wrapped up going through the privilege claims early last week. So - my guess would be that indictments are now indeed imminent.
   464. BDC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5691084)
Michael Cohen Spouse: How was your day, honey?

Michael Cohen: Pretty good, filed two briefs, got your prescriptions at Rite-Aid, picked up a tail on the way home but I shook him, ditched the car, and Julio at the chop shop got me one with clean plates …
   465. DavidFoss Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:23 AM (#5691089)
I haven't heard more but I presume they're transporting the guy far away from downtown?

The raccoon is safe!

Hopefully they take him way out and far from the city. Raccoons look cute, but you don't want to be close to one in person.

   466. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5691091)
Huh...

This is a rather interesting development. The NRA's site has removed its lawmaker grades.

It's unclear why - initially, an unnamed staffer told Reuters it was because the grades were being used against them. Now, a named spokesperson says it's just a glitch.

NRA spokeswoman Jennifer Baker told the Post that he was likely just experiencing an “IT glitch,” but an unnamed NRA employee confirmed that the past grades had been removed.

“I think our enemies were using that,” he told the Post.

Baker told TPM that “the old grades are no longer relevant” because the rating system serves as an election guide for its members.


This would be quite a development if the NRA itself feels its grades are hurting preferred lawmakers...

   467. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5691097)
Good thing Trump had drained the swamp. Otherwise, stuff like this would happen:

Environmental Protection Agency chief Scott Pruitt last year had a top aide help contact Republican donors who might offer his wife a job, eventually securing her a position at a conservative political group that has backed him for years, according to multiple individuals familiar with the matter.

The job hunt included Pruitt’s approaching wealthy party supporters and conservative figures with ties to the Trump administration. The individuals said he enlisted Samantha Dravis, then serving as associate administrator for the EPA’s Office of Policy, to line up work for his wife.

And when one donor, Doug Deason, said he could not hire Marlyn Pruitt because of a conflict of interest, Pruitt continued to solicit his help in trying to find other possibilities.


   468. Howie Menckel Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5691100)
Bill Clinton book review
great fun if you like catty reviews

"Bill Clinton, who can write, has hooked up with James Patterson, who can’t, but whose works have sold more than three hundred and seventy-five million copies, most of them to happy and contented customers for whom good writing would only get in the way. This unlikely pact has resulted in “The President Is Missing” (Knopf and Little, Brown)"

"The book itself is a concussive blast of five hundred and thirteen pages. Though not as massive as “My Life” (2004), Clinton’s autobiography, which was twice as long"

"Cue the stress. Duncan is facing possible impeachment, partly because his opponents are careerist weasels but mainly because, according to leaked reports, he held a telephone conversation with “the most dangerous and prolific cyberterrorist in the world,” Suliman Cindoruk, who leads an organization known as Sons of Jihad. (“He’s Turkish-born, but he’s not Muslim,” Duncan says. That faint sound you can hear is our two authors treading very, very carefully.)"
   469. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:38 AM (#5691110)
The raccoon is safe!


As a member of the Critter Caucus, I was always confident*. Don't underestimate Trash Pandas.

* Sound asleep is much like confidence.
   470. BDC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:41 AM (#5691111)
Suliman Cindoruk

Great name for a reserve infielder.
   471. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5691114)
Thanks GOP! You guys are basically sabotaging the US on the world stage, but hey keep up with the mindless tribalism.


Closest allies sour on U.S.


Every G7 nation shows decreases. Heck even RUSSIA! shows a decrease. We are probably more popular in North Korea though(Sadly this is likely more than offset by decreases in our actual ally South Korea).
   472. Chicago Joe Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5691118)
Speaking of "flaming idiots", this is kind of fun.


Gotta say I sympathize with Boucher here; he may be named Rene, but he tackles like Bobby, apparently.
   473. BDC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5691119)
Bill Clinton, who can write, has hooked up with James Patterson, who can’t

I guess people know James Patterson's assembly-line process: he writes the title, a quick outline, and maybe the first sentences of a few chapters, and then turns a book over to a co-writer to flesh out. To give him credit, he gives the co-writers full credit, and I imagine they get more money than your typical work-for-hire ghost.

Which suggests that, unless he reversed the procedure, Patterson had Bill Clinton do most of the writing on this new book. Keeps him out of trouble I suppose.
   474. DavidFoss Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5691123)
And when one donor, Doug Deason, said he could not hire Marlyn Pruitt because of a conflict of interest, Pruitt continued to solicit his help in trying to find other possibilities.

My company has training for this stuff. We all had go through these silly online tests about what level of gifts from outside vendors are inappropriate, what to do if a spouse works for a company in the same space, etc, etc. I imagine its a much bigger deal for people in marketing and sales but non-customer facing types have to go through the training as well.

Pruitt acts completely oblivious. Someone asked him about the Chick-Fil-A thing and he smiled and started gushing about how much he loved Chick-Fil-A. Does he really think the reporter was also a fan of fried chicken sandwiches?
   475. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5691135)
One other election result from last night worth noting...

The Dems flipped yet another state legislature seat last night - their 43rd since Trump took office.

This one was up in Wisconsin. Careful readers and rememberers will recall that this special election was one a judge ordered Scott Walker to hold after the Dems flipped a surprise WI state senate seat back in January. Following that "wake-up call" - as Walker called it - he attempted to hold off on further special elections, in defiance of state law (this seat was vacated by the GOP rep taking a job in the Walker administration).

The country would be better off if Trump hadn't become President, but I don't think it's really in dispute that the electoral fortunes of the Democratic party since that dark November in 2016 wouldn't be nearly so good.

Maybe it's time for the Trumpkins to revise that CW concern trolling about how being mean to Trump will hurt them... Party fortunes rise and fall all the time, but it's undeniable that the Dems have been racking up wins all across the country, in all kinds of districts, at all levels, since the Trump era commenced.

   476. BrianBrianson Posted: June 13, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5691142)
Be honest.

How many people honestly think they're even lying?

Had any other President blundered into the last week's worth of foreign policy debacle dipshitdom, I'd still suspect NK is lying.

In this case? I'd probably put the line at 70-30 Trump actually said exactly this. Maybe 80-20.


It's pretty likely he said it, but Trump's promises are as reliable as contracts written in piss on the ocean.

But, of course, I generally don't like broad sanctions against regimes we don't like - the leaders don't suffer, and the people of the nation band together against a common enemy. Send goods, media, whatever, into North Korea, Iran, whatever, and let the people sort things out internally when they see what's possible. Targetted stuff (like's been done against Russian Oligarch's foreign assets) can have value. But playing Great Satan (or whatever the Juche equivalent is) is just playing into the regime's hands.
   477. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5691148)
Good thing Trump had drained the swamp. Otherwise, stuff like this would happen:


I don't recall you posting online when Jimmy Carter turned a blind eye to Billy Beer, you hypocritical virtue-signaling TDS victim.
   478. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5691152)
But, of course, I generally don't like broad sanctions against regimes we don't like - the leaders don't suffer, and the people of the nation band together against a common enemy. Send goods, media, whatever, into North Korea, Iran, whatever, and let the people sort things out internally when they see what's possible. Targetted stuff (like's been done against Russian Oligarch's foreign assets) can have value. But playing Great Satan (or whatever the Juche equivalent is) is just playing into the regime's hands.


Cosign.
   479. BDC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5691156)
I generally don't like broad sanctions against regimes we don't like - the leaders don't suffer, and the people of the nation band together against a common enemy

I think that's true. The exception might be South Africa, where you had a distinct internal movement that supported sanctions, quite a different dynamic.
   480. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5691158)
Michael Cohen Spouse: How was your day, honey?

Michael Cohen: Pretty good, filed two briefs, got your prescriptions at Rite-Aid, picked up a tail on the way home but I shook him, ditched the car, and Julio at the chop shop got me one with clean plates …
I get the joke, but the "filed two briefs" thing doesn't ring true. I'm not sure Cohen has ever filed a brief in his life. That's not the kind of lawyer he is, literally or figuratively.
   481. BDC Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:13 AM (#5691163)
I see I have a long path of exacting study ahead before I'm cracking them up with my humorous keynote addresses to local bar associations.
   482. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5691166)

But, of course, I generally don't like broad sanctions against regimes we don't like - the leaders don't suffer, and the people of the nation band together against a common enemy. Send goods, media, whatever, into North Korea, Iran, whatever, and let the people sort things out internally when they see what's possible. Targetted stuff (like's been done against Russian Oligarch's foreign assets) can have value. But playing Great Satan (or whatever the Juche equivalent is) is just playing into the regime's hands.
Without getting into whether what you say is ever true, it's certainly not wrt North Korea. Goods aren't being kept out of the DPRK because of international sanctions. They're being kept out by the fact that North Korea doesn't want them and can't afford them. (By "doesn't want them" I refer to the government, of course, not the populace.) North Korea is not like Venezuela or Cuba or something, admitting it has problems but blaming them on the U.S.; North Korea would never admit any such thing.
   483. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5691179)
My company has training for this stuff. We all had go through these silly online tests about what level of gifts from outside vendors are inappropriate, what to do if a spouse works for a company in the same space, etc, etc. I imagine its a much bigger deal for people in marketing and sales but non-customer facing types have to go through the training as well.


I think most do.

We not only have a company-wide, annual training session to attend - but also have to pass a test after it... It's rather annoying because while the answers are pretty obvious, they form the questions in tricky manners (i.e., lots of inverted questions, lots of "best" answer where it's not just inform legal counsel, but also your boss, etc). The penalty is that you have to keep taking the ###### if you fail - and as it's an interactive video quiz, the damn thing takes 30 minutes to get through.

Oddly enough, it DID come up once IRL - at least, I think so... Was working on a project with an NGO I won't name - and near the end, just over lunch with a counterpart, we started shooting the breeze on our jobs and how we liked them, yada yada... Anyway, the guy brought up his wife who was job-hunting. I honestly don't think there was anything untoward - I think it just innocent discussion - but I'll admit I can be naive about such stuff so I dutifully informed my boss and legal counsel about the conversation. Perhaps just out of an abundance of caution, perhaps not - but the in-house counsel I spoke with seemed to take it pretty seriously... asked a fair number of questions about the conversation, documented it all, etc - and then told me that if he or his wife contacted me further in any way, I was to inform her of it before delivering any response. The counterpart in question did, I suppose, have some influence/sway in any future partnering decisions - but nothing was ever offered or implied. Never heard anything further.

   484. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5691188)
Ruh-Roh!

Former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen likely to cooperate as his attorneys leave case, sources say

As attorneys for Michael Cohen rush to meet Judge Kimba Wood’s Friday deadline to complete a privilege review of over 3.7 million documents seized in the April 9 raids of Cohen’s New York properties and law office, a source representing this matter has disclosed to ABC News that the law firm handling the case for Cohen is not expected to represent him going forward.

* * *
Cohen, now with no legal representation, is likely to cooperate with federal prosecutors in New York, sources said. This development, which is believed to be imminent, will likely hit the White House, family members, staffers and counsels hard.


BTW - I may have slightly misstated the privilege review... if I read this right - the special master is done, but attorneys on both sides have to wrap up their reviews by Friday:

Judge Wood has given Cohen’s attorneys until Friday to complete the review of the remaining documents. Any remaining items to be reviewed would be turned over to a team of federal prosecutors unconnected to the case to complete the examination of the documents.
   485. Shredder Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:32 AM (#5691192)
My company has training for this stuff. We all had go through these silly online tests about what level of gifts from outside vendors are inappropriate, what to do if a spouse works for a company in the same space, etc, etc. I imagine its a much bigger deal for people in marketing and sales...
It may be, but it tends to be a bigger deal for people who work in industries where their firms are highly regulated, so probably not so much with marketing and sales. Some of that stuff is just company by company policy. We, on the other hand, have to go through all sorts of independence training and have our assets reviewed periodically (usually you can set up an automatic broker feed), and that covers spouses and dependents as well. But I work for a firm that audits public companies, so we have all sorts of SEC and AICPA hoops to jump through. When I was doing the same thing at a non-audit firm, we had virtually no independence restrictions. That was two jobs ago. Upon leaving that job and going to my last job (at a Big 4 accounting firm), I had to get rid of all of my Apple stock. Never worked on Apple, didn't know anyone who worked on Apple, and I don't believe I even could have worked on Apple based on the restriction of services that we could provide to (what I believe was) an audit client, but still had to sell. Within a few months of having to sell, Apple was up about 40 points. Man, that sucked.
   486. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:32 AM (#5691195)
Could be quite a Friday!

Trump's campaign manager gets his bail revoked and goes to jail to prevent him from further obstruction and witness tampering, while Trump's lawyer flips and becomes a cooperating witness!

All the connected dots are collapsing into a singularity that even Concession Boy may not be able feign inability to connect them...
   487. manchestermets Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5691202)
(That was the fun when Hanover found out that Rudy had dumped her when he held a press conference to announce it (after he had been spotted dining intimately with Nathan). He hadn't bothered to tell Hanover before he told the media.)


But did he tell China?


I still have Joey B on ignore. Not Bivens, but the deranged Nationals fan.


I still have Levski on ignore. You can never be too careful.


Where does Mr. Putin rank on a list of foreign leaders Trump speaks to most often?


Definitely #1 on the speed dial.
   488. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5691203)
More classic RDP overnight, I see. Yes, commuting AMJ's sentence^ is a good thing. Doesn't mean that the Kardashian Klown Klatch was a good thing.

Trump mugging with a Kardashian in front of an empty desk is a photo op, nothing more, nothing less. It was done to get headlines and head-nods from the base. AMJ benefited, sure, and has been deserving of clemency for some time, and previous presidents (notably including Obama) were wrong not to have acted on AMJ sooner. It's a net plus that Trump completed this action. Turning it into some kind of "let's expand this into some sort of racial profiling of clemency candidates for political gain" is utterly, completely, and in every other way ridiculous, and everyone here is dumber for having had to read it. Ray can't possibly be so stupid as to actually think it's a good idea^^, so it's trollbait to manufacture some weird gotchas. No, Ray, we're not criticizing the clemency itself, we're criticizing the dumb construct surrounding it (yours, or Trump's, or both).

-------------

^ Ray is either ignorant of the difference between "commuting a sentence" and "pardoning", or lying.
^^ Or, can he?
   489. DavidFoss Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5691204)
It's rather annoying because while the answers are pretty obvious, they form the questions in tricky manners (i.e., lots of inverted questions, lots of "best" answer where it's not just inform legal counsel, but also your boss, etc).

My company had some fun with some of the questions. "It has come to your attention that the company that your spouse works for is in competition with this company for an important contract. What should you do? a) Quit your job. b) Divorce your spouse c) Notify the Ethics Office of the potential conflict of interest"

   490. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5691205)
Oddly enough, it DID come up once IRL - at least, I think so... Was working on a project with an NGO I won't name - and near the end, just over lunch with a counterpart, we started shooting the breeze on our jobs and how we liked them, yada yada... Anyway, the guy brought up his wife who was job-hunting. I honestly don't think there was anything untoward - I think it just innocent discussion - but I'll admit I can be naive about such stuff so I dutifully informed my boss and legal counsel about the conversation.
This kind of thing is a really, really big deal in government service. As an example, in iraq in 2005, a coworker (government civilian who was about to rotate back) asked one of the support contractors what they pay, if his company was hiring, etc. I'm almost certain he didn't mean to do anything wrong, but it was an absolutely positively stupid way to lose a cushy GS-13 job.

The contractor reported it, of course, and the guy was on a plane back to Kuwait within hours. They didn't even let him pack up his own hooch.

Different rules apply if you kiss Trump's ass, I guess.
   491. BrianBrianson Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5691209)
Without getting into whether what you say is ever true, it's certainly not wrt North Korea. Goods aren't being kept out of the DPRK because of international sanctions. They're being kept out by the fact that North Korea doesn't want them and can't afford them.


It's at least somewhat true. We closed Kaesong. Gas and Oil imports are limited. A lot of exports are limited or banned, which positions us, rather than the regime, as the enemy of the North Korean people.

And responding to someone else - yeah, South Africa was somewhat different, because it was a (limited) democracy, so sanctions were really significant to decision makers. Though, of course, I don't really know how significant the sanctions were in determining the outcome.
   492. Spahn Insane Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5691214)
Well Al now there starting to realize that not just Tawny in Clevland has pull.

Someone please tell me this is a puton.
   493. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5691215)
Could be quite a Friday!

Trump's campaign manager gets his bail revoked and goes to jail to prevent him from further obstruction and witness tampering, while Trump's lawyer flips and becomes a cooperating witness!

All the connected dots are collapsing into a singularity that even Concession Boy may not be able feign inability to connect them...


What's so hard about connecting them, say Trump and his faithful flock of parrots? These dots are all further proof of the Deep State Conspiracy!
   494. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: June 13, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5691218)
What's so hard about connecting them, say Trump and his faithful flock of parrots? These dots are all further proof of the Deep State Conspiracy!
but then why are they burying the news on a Friday afternoon? What is Mueller trying to hide?
   495. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5691221)
It's at least somewhat true. We closed Kaesong. Gas and Oil imports are limited. A lot of exports are limited or banned, which positions us, rather than the regime, as the enemy of the North Korean people.


The folly here is believing that North Korean people have access to much beyond the cult of personality forced upon them. Thinking that there's any scenario where they'll 'blame the regime' is just fantastical.

This video op-ed by a North Korean defector is worth watching.

In particular, I would watch till the point where she talks about Kim Dae-jung won the Nobel Peace Prize for meeting with Kim Jong Il in 2000....
   496. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5691234)
Corker still uncorked...

“We are in a strange place. I mean, it’s almost, it’s becoming a cultish thing, isn’t it?” he said to reporters Wednesday. “And it’s not a good place for any party to end up with a cult-like situation as it relates to a President that happens to be of, purportedly, of the same party.”
   497. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:27 PM (#5691247)
“We are in a strange place. I mean, it’s almost, it’s becoming a cultish thing, isn’t it?” he said to reporters Wednesday. “And it’s not a good place for any party to end up with a cult-like situation as it relates to a President that happens to be of, purportedly, of the same party.”
If Hillary had been elected, she would have a cult, too. Corker is just jealous and weak.
   498. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 13, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5691261)
What's so hard about connecting them, say Trump and his faithful flock of parrots? These dots are all further proof of the Deep State Conspiracy!

but then why are they burying the news on a Friday afternoon? What is Mueller trying to hide?


The Deep State Conspiracy, of course. A conspiracy so immense.....

....that only those who pay $50 for my newsletter will know of the extent of its deep depth.
   499. -- Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:03 PM (#5691269)
“We are in a strange place. I mean, it’s almost, it’s becoming a cultish thing, isn’t it?” he said to reporters Wednesday. “And it’s not a good place for any party to end up with a cult-like situation as it relates to a President that happens to be of, purportedly, of the same party.”


We were told by some Very Smart People that Trump had no clout and really low approval ratings and that his mere name was political disaster.

That appears ... not to be the case.
   500. BrianBrianson Posted: June 13, 2018 at 01:06 PM (#5691272)

The folly here is believing that North Korean people have access to much beyond the cult of personality forced upon them.


No one's denying this - it's the whole point. North Koreans working alongside South Koreans in Kaesong is far more likely to bring about change than North Koreans living in total isolation.
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