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Monday, June 11, 2018

OTP 2018 June 11: Sports, politics conflicted 50 years ago with mourning of RFK’s death

If you think the intersection – and conflict – of sports and politics is something new, well, you haven’t been paying close enough attention to either for a very long time.

Don’t think so? Check out President Trump’s pardon of the controversial African-American heavyweight champion Jack Johnson, who held the title more than 100 years ago. His reign was consumed by the politics of the day. So it is no surprise that the debate over NFL players and the national anthem remains a divisive topic.

Anything that is going to have the powerful symbolism of sports —and the ability to unite, as we have seen right here in Washington during the Capitals’ Stanley Cup playoffs run — is also going to generate enough passion to divide as well, in death as well as life.

That was the case 50 years ago, as Major League Baseball tried to cope with the proper way to mourn the death of New York Senator and Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy on June 6, 1968.

 

I almost linked to a story with the tag line “Miguel Cabrera stands next to Detroit’s “Rally Goose” during the first game of a doubleheader vs. the Yankees on Monday. The Tigers lost the opener but won the nightcap” but opted for history instead of the goose.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 11, 2018 at 07:41 AM | 1349 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: boxing, death, hockey, off-topic, politics, why can't we all just get along

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   901. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5692326)
Reposting from the flip -

The universe of GOP impeachment votes that are probably juiciest...

But anyway.... I think Sasse and Graham are gettable. Mitt Romney probably is, too (especially since I think he's fancying himself the Trump alternative for the GOP going forward). May John McCain stay healthy enough to vote - but he's also certainly in the cards. Susan Collins.

That's 5.

Then, let's look at the old guys who might not be worrying about another election. Richard Shelby is 84 - and is a former Democrat who showed in the Roy Moore/Doug Jones race he's not totally a lost cause. Chuck Grassley is also 84 - and like Shelby, won't be up until 2022 - and has had his moments with Trump. Lamar Alexander is 77 - and may not run in 2020. Pat Roberts is 82.

4 More.

There's at least a few guys who are wholly at the whim of Trump's approval rating. Marco Rubio is purely a mathematical question - if Trump's approval is in the 30s, he'll vote yes. In the 40s - no.

+1

Purple staters up in 2020 - Gardner, Ernst, Portman, and Thillis

4 more.

Purple states up in 2022 - Toomey and Burr.

2 more

Wildcards who have had their run-ins with Trump - Rand Paul and Lisa Murkowski.

2 more

A couple others that have also had their run-ins and occasionally voiced some Trump dissatisfaction - Tim Scott and John Kennedy.

+2

I think that's probably the universe of gettables - 20 or so.

I could see being able to cobble together ~17 or so them.
   902. Srul Itza Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5692327)
Things haven't improved for the folks Trump allegedly was going to help - and in fact, they're getting worse.


Here's hoping they are not too stupid to notice.

Forlorn hope though it may be.
   903. DavidFoss Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5692330)
What economists call the “Phillips curve” — which says low unemployment should accelerate pay growth — appears to be broken or twisted.

That curve is an inverse correlation between unemployment and inflation in the short term. It's one of the staples of every Econ 101 class -- a form of it is #10 of textbook author Greg Mankiw's 10 principles of economics.

People get into trouble when they try to make that correlation causal, though. Or if they try to make it work in the long term (the whole curve shifted in the 70s).

What is puzzling the Fed is why the labor shortages haven't been driving wage hikes. With unemployment this low, companies are supposed to be getting desperate for good job candidates to the point where they start trying to outbid each other. Does anyone here hire people? What are you seeing when you send out offers?
   904. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5692335)
Diplomats and other foreigners pay up to stay at Trump properties with the intent of currying favor with the president. That is prima facie evidence of pursuing personal gain from the office.

That's just more making stuff up. A routine hotel room rental doesn't violate the Emoluments Clause, or else Obama's Commerce Secretary and numerous other federal government employees would have been removed from office. The Emoluments Clause was designed to prevent significant gifts or awards from foreign countries influencing federal government employees, not normal commercial transactions.
   905. Srul Itza Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5692338)
That curve is an inverse correlation between unemployment and inflation in the short term


I took my first course in economics at MIT, Micro 101, from Charles Kindleberger. He started out the first day by noting that it was one of the basic principles that you should not see rising unemployment and rising inflation at the same time.

This being 1973, he held up a newspaper headline noting the current stagflation problem.

"Clearly," he said, "we need some new theories."
   906. DavidFoss Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5692342)
"Clearly," he said, "we need some new theories."

The shifting Philips Curve was one of the most famous things to happen in Economics in the 1970s. Persistently high inflation led to inflation expectations that were 'baked in'. People didn't wait for prices to be bid up, they just raised them out of habit. That messed up the whole correlation. That's one of the reasons why the Fed insists on such a low inflation target (2%) these days.
   907. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5692344)
That's a great story Srul. I appreciate any prof that treats his 101 students with that much respect. Obviously MIT has some good ones.
   908. bunyon Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:24 PM (#5692345)
@901: NC is red. It may not be bright, pure red, but if there is any blue in there, it's very soft.

Tillis and Burr aren't gettable for impeachment unless the tide turns down here.

Impeachment will always depend on what the charges are and how strong the evidence. It'll need to be smoking gun he's a russian agent to make voting to remove politically palatable to most R senators. Fun to think about but serious politicians need to be focused elsewhere.
   909. BrianBrianson Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5692346)
Does anyone here hire people? What are you seeing when you send out offers?


No, but I apply for jobs unsuccessfully, despite my only real criteria for applying for a job is that it's in a country where my wife can get a job as a monolingual anglophone. Every one of those openings get dozens if not hundreds of great candidates.
   910. Sit down, Sleepy has lots of stats Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5692347)

That's flat-out incorrect. There is no prohibition on a President being in business, and ordinary arms-length commercial transactions do not violate the Emoluments Clause. The Emoluments Clause isn't some special prohibition on the President, it applies to the entire Government, and numerous government employees have owned hotels, inns, resorts, and all manner of commercial real estate. Nelson Rockefeller was Vice President without anyone seriously suggesting that he violated the Emoluments Clause. Those claiming an Emoluments Clause violation are just making stuff up.

FACT CHECK: Trump Lawyer's Claim And Comparison To Rockefeller Is A Head Scratcher
Among the unusual elements of President-elect Donald Trump's Wednesday news conference was a 15-minute interlude in which an attorney took the podium and described Trump's plan to address potential conflicts of interest between his businesses and the responsibilities of his office.


The attorney, Sheri Dillon, outlined an arrangement by which Trump would turn over "total control" of his worldwide business interests to his sons, Donald Jr. and Eric, with whom he would not communicate about the family business.

{sleepy note: Has he kept this promise?}

Dillon said real divestiture — selling the business or committing its assets to a blind trust — would be forcing him "to destroy his business." She said the president-elect "should not be expected to destroy the company he built."

Dillon went on to say that Trump's empire "is massive, not dissimilar to the fortunes of Nelson Rockefeller when he became vice president, but at that time no one was so concerned." [Emphasis added.]

...

Dillon might not be expected to have any personal recollection of the Rockefeller confirmation process more than 40 years ago, but the record is widely available.

...

Rockefeller disclosed his various assets and trust funds and placed all his assets in a blind trust — the kind of steps Trump has not been willing to take. And in a lame-duck session after that fall's election, Rockefeller was confirmed by both the House and Senate.
   911. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5692352)
What is puzzling the Fed is why the labor shortages haven't been driving wage hikes. With unemployment this low, companies are supposed to be getting desperate for good job candidates to the point where they start trying to outbid each other. Does anyone here hire people? What are you seeing when you send out offers?


Just recently gotten back involved - though, my role is looking almost entirely for internal hires due to the nature of the roles.

I/we're not really a good match for anecdotal stories in this regard - we're still cutting headcount, though mainly through attrition at this point and more heavily focusing on vendor usage. Most of our hiring at this point is happening at higher levels (and in areas outside my bailiwick; i.e., product management/marketing/etc).

In that regard - though we're not supposed to view it this way for obvious reasons - it's more calibrating new roles to be salary-attractive for our internal pool. Obviously, large companies don't like such internal labor pool competition - but that's the way it's coming out in the wash.
   912. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:29 PM (#5692353)
Yeah but that's different.
   913. DavidFoss Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5692355)
That's just more making stuff up. A routine hotel room rental doesn't violate the Emoluments Clause, or else Obama's Commerce Secretary and numerous other federal government employees would have been removed from office.

Sheesh. Hyatt is a publicly traded corporation which is fully regulated by the SEC with all the earnings reports that that entails. They even get one of the coveted single-letter ticker symbols on the NYSE: 'H'. It's rather easy for one of the Pritzker cousins to lock their shares in a vault for 4 years. The current CEO has been there since 2006, is not a Pritzker, and he answers to his shareholders like any CEO would.

The Trump family is very small, privately owned (no public tax statements!) and almost prides itself as being constantly on the grift. It's really part of their brand. I mean, why does he have to charge the secret service hundreds of thousands of dollars on golf cart rentals each year? It'd be cheaper for them to buy golf carts! That's not even what I'm complaining about but that's the image the family projects.
   914. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5692359)
Anyone see the footage of Supreme Commander Trump saluting a North Korean officer? What a PR coup for the OTHER fat idiot with bad hair.
   915. Traderdave Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5692362)
What is puzzling the Fed is why the labor shortages haven't been driving wage hikes. With unemployment this low, companies are supposed to be getting desperate for good job candidates to the point where they start trying to outbid each other.


Several contributing factors:

-Rising health costs are making total compensation rise, but not showing up in take home pay.

-Labor force participation rate has been about 63% the last few years, down from its long term average of about 67% which it had held for about 2 decades before the '08 recession. What this means is there are more available workers than a 4-ish unenjoyment rate indicates.

-Millenials are a larger generation than the Boomers and more of them enter the labor force every day, which keeps wage pressure down.

-Large number of job openings in low skill/low pay jobs.
   916. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5692364)
Trump owning a hotel down the street from his palace is perhaps legal, but it's sure the hell banana-republic stuff.
   917. Traderdave Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5692365)
Anyone see the footage of Supreme Commander Trump saluting a North Korean officer? What a PR coup for the OTHER fat idiot with bad hair.


At least he never put his feet up on the OO desk. THAT would be treasphemy.
   918. Traderdave Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:46 PM (#5692367)
Trump owning a hotel down the street from his palace is perhaps legal, but it's sure the hell banana-republic stuff.


Nah, it just means he's a shrewd businessman like Anastasio Somosa.
   919. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:47 PM (#5692368)
That's just more making stuff up. A routine hotel room rental doesn't violate the Emoluments Clause, or else Obama's Commerce Secretary and numerous other federal government employees would have been removed from office.

Sheesh. Hyatt is a publicly traded corporation which is fully regulated by the SEC with all the earnings reports that that entails. They even get one of the coveted single-letter ticker symbols on the NYSE: 'H'. It's rather easy for one of the Pritzker cousins to lock their shares in a vault for 4 years. The current CEO has been there since 2006, is not a Pritzker, and he answers to his shareholders like any CEO would.

Being a partial owner isn't a shield against Emoluments Clause violations. That Hyatt is a publicly traded stock isn't relevant to whether Prisker violated the Emoluments Clause, either. The transaction either is or isn't, and in this case it's clear that it wasn't for Prisker, and numerous other federal employees, as well as Trump. BTW, Trump is donating the profits from foreign government patronage to the U.S. Treasury.
   920. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5692372)
Trump owning a hotel down the street from his palace is perhaps legal, but it's sure the hell banana-republic stuff.

The Obama Administration awarded the contract after a public bidding process.
   921. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5692374)
BTW, Trump is donating the profits from foreign government patronage to the U.S. Treasury.


And sans a look at the books, why would anyone have reason to disbelieve their numbers.... because of all his honesty over the years... and the way he's NEVER abused any such vehicles.

   922. Sit down, Sleepy has lots of stats Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:52 PM (#5692376)
-Labor force participation rate has been about 63% the last few years, down from its long term average of about 67% which it had held for about 2 decades before the '08 recession. What this means is there are more available workers than a 4-ish unenjoyment rate indicates.
One thing I've noticed is a different type of person working in roles such as "cashiers at Home Depot". A few years ago it would be a fairly sharp, focused person who could make conversation and handle basic things like scanning coupons and receipts for returns without having to call their manager. Now it seems like the people with tattoos on their faces and weird piercings and slurred speech are being placed in customer-facing jobs, instead of in the warehouse or whatever.

My working hypothesis is that there is a large reserve of people who escape the official unemployment statistics but managed to get hired when the economy is good, by replacing more qualified people who took better jobs. This set is more willing to work part-time jobs without benefits, keeping wages down.

Alternatively, these kids need to stop doing meth on my lawn.

My current job ends in September, so I've been on the search the last few months. I've had several recruiters contact me with decent jobs in areas I am not interested in pursuing (software development projects or stuff in Palmdale), but haven't had the kind of luck I expected to have in the jobs I have actually applied for. I also wonder if the online tools like glassdoor aren't helping keep things down as well, by creating a more efficient tool for distributing talent; every interesting job gets hundreds of applications, so hiring managers are looking for purple squirrels.
   923. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5692377)
My working hypothesis is that there is a large reserve of people who escape the official unemployment statistics but managed to get hired when the economy is good, by replacing more qualified people who took better jobs. This set is more willing to work part-time jobs without benefits, keeping wages down.


I've advocated several times that I think the 40 hour work week really needs to start sunsetting.

Lots of changes that need to come with it (and health coverage is, yes, probably the biggest) - and business will hate it... but working for a European-based company - strictly from the social/national perspective - I see the benefit.

Like I said, businesses will hate - I hear no end to the complaints from management in our European areas of operation - but we have a lot of divisions where a single job is basically shared by two people. They have three day work weeks, 'full-time' is at lower level than in the US, etc. But - it's got its advantages (for the country and the employees). Depends on the situation and individuals, of course - but I haven't found it nearly as disruptive as I thought it would be when it comes down basically leaning on Person A or Person B depending on the day of the week.
   924. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 04:59 PM (#5692379)
The Obama Administration awarded the contract after a public bidding process

Clapper, you were born way too late. You would have made a great Renaissance papal bureaucrat, defending His Holiness from all manner of accusations of simony, barratry, and nepotism :)
   925. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:00 PM (#5692381)
The universe of GOP impeachment votes that are probably juiciest...
. . .
I think that's probably the universe of gettables - 20 or so. I could see being able to cobble together ~17 or so them.

You guys seem to be able to convince yourself of anything. Yesterday, folks here were suggesting sanctions were being immediately lifted from North Korea, while the reality was that North Korea would have to fully denuclearize before sanctions would be lifted. Today, Zonk is doing imaginary whip counts for fantasy impeachment proceedings, despite not having any actual charges. Sorry if this comes as a surprise to some, but there will be no GOP votes, and damn few Democratic ones, for impeaching Trump because the French Ambassador rented a room in his hotel. You guys are embarrassing yourself by even suggesting the possibility.
   926. zenbitz Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:00 PM (#5692382)
I honestly have no idea if Trump is violating the Emoluments Clause - but I *do* know that no modern Congress would impeach him for it. I mean, that's making an assumption that a Democratic controlled house isn't going to impeach with no possibility of conviction - like as a maneuver.

If there is an impeachment (highly unlikely) it will be for serious crimes (ones that Pence will have to Pardon him for).
   927. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5692383)
You guys seem to be able to convince yourself of anything. Yesterday, folks here were suggesting sanctions were being immediately lifted from North Korea, while the reality was that North Korea would have to fully denuclearize before sanctions would be lifted. Today, Zonk is doing imaginary whip counts for fantasy impeachment proceedings, despite not having any actual charges. Sorry if this comes as a surprise to some, but there will be no GOP votes, and damn few Democratic ones, for impeaching Trump because the French Ambassador rented a hotel room in his hotel. You guys are embarrassing yourself by even suggesting the possibility.


Oh?

Did we settle on that being the charge?

Because I don't recall that.

Regardless, nothing is as an embarrassing as being a Trumpkin. Like you.
   928. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:12 PM (#5692392)
The Obama Administration awarded the contract after a public bidding process.

Clapper, you were born way too late. You would have made a great Renaissance papal bureaucrat, defending His Holiness from all manner of accusations of simony, barratry, and nepotism :)

That's pretty lame, BDC. You suggested that Trump owning a hotel in Washington, DC was "banana republic stuff". When it's noted that the contract was awarded through a transparent public bidding process overseen by the Obama Administration - the opposing political party to Trump - you accuse others of spinning for merely providing the context that you omitted to arrive at your preferred, but inaccurate, characterization. Maybe you should start with getting the basics right next time.
   929. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5692397)
the contract was awarded through a transparent public bidding process overseen by the Obama Administration - the opposing political party to Trump

A quick check suggests that this process was well in motion at least as early as 2012, when whatever party Trump belonged to at the time, there was certainly no threat of him imminently becoming President. What part of "appearance of impropriety" doesn't get through to you? But I guess everybody needs a hero who can do no wrong :)
   930. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:27 PM (#5692400)
I honestly have no idea if Trump is violating the Emoluments Clause


Sure - and recognizing that this all came up as a result of a "Oh yeah? What would you charge him with!?!?!" - the simple fact is that there is exactly one game in town exercising any Trump oversight and while it's purview is broad enough to get after such things should it run across them, it's not actively looking.

Ultimately, until the Trump Legal Defense team loses its committee chairmanships - as in January of 2019 - nobody knows because the current crop of lickspittles aren't even bothering to look.

Things will change once oversight is no longer in the hands of the Lock Her Up gang. I suspect we'll have Mueller riches to work from by then anyway, but if not? I'd give it till May of 2019.
   931. Sit down, Sleepy has lots of stats Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:27 PM (#5692401)
928 can you explain this "bidding process" a little better, maybe provide a link to explain what you are talking about? And how the "bidding process", whatever it means, relates to the possibility that some folks are paying above-market-rates for rooms at the Trump hotel in DC?

Nevermind, found it. Seems he overbid and made promises that he can't keep, violated the terms of his proposal before even starting work, and has already violated his lease repeatedly, but the GSA hasn't acted. Guess it helps when you appoint the director of the government agency that oversees your contract.
   932. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5692402)
What part of "appearance of impropriety" doesn't get through to you?


People who back a guy that says on tape he can just grab women by the ##### don't actually consider propriety a matter of great importance...

People who back a guy that gives handjobs to brutal dictators - even lauds them for their brutal regimes - while simultaneously trashing western democracies don't care about improprieties...

People who want to throw sonuvabitches out of the country for quietly kneeling while calling to congratulating a crotch-grabbing and spitting national anthem screecher on her TV success don't place propriety high on their list of importance.

People who find jokes about roughing up arrest suspects, voicing preferences for Aryan immigrants over 'shitholes' (that happen to be black or brown)...


And on and on and on...

Appealing to any decorum, sense of propriety or shame from Trumpkins is a totally lost cause and an exercise in futility.

They traded in their shame for Jim Jones kool-aid two years ago.
   933. Shredder Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:34 PM (#5692403)
928 can you explain this "bidding process" a little better, maybe provide a link to explain what you are talking about? And how the "bidding process", whatever it means, relates to the possibility that some folks are paying above-market-rates for rooms at the Trump hotel in DC?
Not so long as his tongue is stitched to Trump's taint he can't. Just typing in that position is pretty impressive.
   934. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:41 PM (#5692408)
re: 931

This was all widely reported. The Old Post Office building had been redeveloped decades ago, but flopped despite a great location right at the Federal Triangle METRO. It was mostly office space, some restaurants, and retail space that never took off under General Services Administration auspices. GSA gave up running the place itself, and put redeveloping the whole complex up for bid. The Trump bid won. How a free and fair transparent public bidding process overseen by your political opponents is "banana republic stuff" eludes me.
   935. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:44 PM (#5692410)
Seems he overbid and made promises that he can't keep, violated the terms of his proposal before even starting work, and has already violated his lease repeatedly, but the GSA hasn't acted. Guess it helps when you appoint the director of the government agency that oversees your contract.

Obama's GSA not only awarded the bid, they dismissed the claims raised by Trump's opponents.
   936. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:44 PM (#5692411)
This was all widely reported. The Old Post Office building had been redeveloped decades ago, but flopped despite a great location right at the Federal Triangle METRO. It was mostly office space, some restaurants, and retail space that never took off under General Services Administration auspices. GSA gave up running the place itself, and put redeveloping the whole complex up for bid. The Trump bid won. How a free and fair transparent public bidding process overseen by your political opponents is "banana republic stuff" eludes me.


Careful readers - Clapper's favorite kind - will note that what he's talking about has nothing to do with whether foreign emissaries are currying favor or being coerced or hinted into currying favor by staying at the property.

   937. Sit down, Sleepy has lots of stats Posted: June 14, 2018 at 05:49 PM (#5692415)
With the GSA protest rejected, Michael Cohen, special counsel to Donald Trump, issued a statement to The Washingtonian, saying, “This is sour grapes by two bitter individuals who are disappointed after the GSA rejected their last-place bid. Donald Trump has no issue with money and there’s no issue with the GSA. These individuals, should they continue making these false and defamatory statements, will find themselves facing very significant litigation.”
Lols. Go get 'em, Mikey.

Given the way the deal was described in this article, I am kind of surprised the Hilton protest wasn't upheld, since there appeared to be some shenanigans in the award process. but there's not enough details to explain what the applicable FAR clause was. In fact, the GSA stated that the FAr wasn't even applicable:
The GSA rejected Metropolitan’s protest a month after it was filed, on the grounds that the Old Post Office lease is not a procurement under federal law and therefore Metropolitan had no grounds to protest.
Curiouser and curiouser. WTF rules were the GSA operating under, if Federal procurement law wasn't applicable?
   938. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 06:08 PM (#5692426)
Anyone see the footage of Supreme Commander Trump saluting a North Korean officer? What a PR coup for the OTHER fat idiot with bad hair.

At least he never put his feet up on the OO desk. THAT would be treasphemy


He may excuse their atrocities and salute their officers, but Trump knows he never saw a North Korean kneel during the national anthem. THOSE people are the real unpatriotic ones who shouldn’t be in the country.
   939. Sit down, Sleepy has lots of stats Posted: June 14, 2018 at 06:09 PM (#5692428)
I'm just about done with this, but it looks like the GSA deskbook says that, for "new or replacing leases" above the SLAT threshold (150K), they do have to use full and open competition IAW FAR part 6. It also includes provisions for handling protests IAW FAR 33.1. That statement from the GSA, assuming it was accurately reported, just doesn't make sense.

But that's a 2016 document, so maybe it was the wild west in 2012.
   940. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 06:14 PM (#5692430)
Some numbers we should probably point out for Clapper's laughable BTW, too -

During that same period that Clapper's totes propriety orange master donated $151,470 to Treasury -- Ivanka alone made $3,900,000 from her stake in the hotel ("Careful readers" will remember that Ivanka "works" in the White House).

Now hey, who knows what the books say...

But you compare the numbers... the White House employee who happens to Donald Trump's daughter made $3.9 million just from her stake in the DC hotel. The Trump organization, in its above-the-board largesse says it donated $150K.

You tell me about emoluments.
   941. perros Posted: June 14, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5692431)

All this blather from SBB amounts to is him sucking his own dick to not have to realize that he's part of the problem.


This entire daily exercise of Trump Hate is part of the problem -- mere entertainment or distraction while you go about your daily business of contributing to the status quo. Maybe I'm wrong, and one of you will reveal your work to change the way things are politically, socially, economically in 2018 and beyond.



   942. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 06:18 PM (#5692433)
Comrade Cockholster, Puppet of Putin:

President Donald Trump told G7 leaders that Crimea is Russian because everyone who lives there speaks Russian, according to two diplomatic sources.


####. Don’t tell England he finds this persuasive.

During the dinner, Trump also seemed to question why the G7 leaders were siding with Ukraine. The president told leaders that "Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world," the source said.


So....when Trump has these frequent calls with Vladimir Putin we all learned about last week, what do you suppose they discuss?
   943. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 06:27 PM (#5692437)
This entire daily exercise of Trump Hate is part of the problem -- mere entertainment or distraction while you go about your daily business of contributing to the status quo. Maybe I'm wrong, and one of you will reveal your work to change the way things are politically, socially, economically in 2018 and beyond.


I'm an incrementalist and just a private sector cog in a 330 million machine.

I have no illusions about my role, the scope of my reach, or my place in the world. I work, I pay taxes, I donate time and money to causes I believe in.

The only pressing problem I have with the status quo is that is that a ridiculous, unfit buffoon has a outsized influence on its course and contours. Ridding the world of him won't solve every problem, but it eliminates the biggest in mind.

Beyond that, the things I want changed have no easy answers or simple solutions - and I'm OK with that. I don't think I'm a selfish person, but sans Trump? My status quo is that I live in an era and place better than virtually most of the rest of the world and certainly better than prior periods in history. It's not perfect, and I do my little part to move the human ball forward - but I damn sure don't think the answers are in the past, much less in places where some buffoonish strongman makes me clap louder for tinkerbell.

The biggest problem is beyond my means - at least, any means I'd seriously considering undertaking - today. So in the meantime - I'll beat my drum to right rhythm and entertain myself in the meantime.

I'm OK with that.
   944. Sit down, Sleepy has lots of stats Posted: June 14, 2018 at 06:28 PM (#5692438)
But you compare the numbers... the White House employee who happens to Donald Trump's daughter made $3.9 million just from her stake in the DC hotel. The Trump organization, in its above-the-board largesse says it donated $150K.

You tell me about emoluments.
You call it emoluments, I call it #winning.

Winning so much that I'm sick of winning, you know?
   945. zenbitz Posted: June 14, 2018 at 06:56 PM (#5692455)
Does anyone here hire people? What are you seeing when you send out offers?


Software engineers and biological data scientists. They are extraordinarily hard to find at a reasonable wage (well bioinformatics pros are just more rare, not really more expensive).

Just found out that one of my Software devs wife (Environmental Engineer for LA County) was just denied H1-B extension. Probably for MAGA reasons (3 other engineers for the county were also denied), although possibly for quota reasons (they are Indian, and while there is no non-profit corp. quote, I am not sure how Government employees are handled).
   946. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 06:57 PM (#5692456)
Lest my point go unperceived – though it seems to be kinda obvious to most – the government approved the development of a property by a hotelier. The hotelier became President. To avoid appearance of impropriety, the hotelier-turned-President should have divested himself of the hotel.

And the crucial point is not even any money being made. Zonk explains the point; it's more like this, and doesn't need to have anything to do with the Donald directly:

BUREAUCRAT: Where did y'all stay last night?
FOREIGNER A: Supreme Leader Trump Hotel and Suites.
BUREAUCRAT: I like that answer.

BUREAUCRAT: Where did y'all stay last night?
FOREIGNER B: I dunno. Holiday Inn Express? Was that smart?
BUREAUCRAT: Oh my no.

That anybody can even compose those lines shows the problem.
   947. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:03 PM (#5692457)
What about Jimmy Carter’s peanuts hmmmm? JUANABOUT THE PEANUTS?
   948. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:04 PM (#5692458)
And to add to #946: it doesn't even have to be a foreigner; it can be somebody from California or New York. And to the extent that any Democrat ever did it, it was just as much a banana-republic scenario, so whatabouts are (pace the peanuts) irrelevant :)
   949. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:09 PM (#5692462)
During that same period that Clapper's totes propriety orange master donated $151,470 to Treasury -- Ivanka alone made $3,900,000 from her stake in the hotel ("Careful readers" will remember that Ivanka "works" in the White House).

Now hey, who knows what the books say... But you compare the numbers... the White House employee who happens to Donald Trump's daughter made $3.9 million just from her stake in the DC hotel. The Trump organization, in its above-the-board largesse says it donated $150K.

I'm not sure what Zonk thinks he has here, but it appears to be nothing. The Trump Hotel has been profitable? I'm sure that upsets poor Zonk, not to mention Andy, who repeatedly predicted it would go bankrupt, but that was the whole idea of the project. GSA gets a larger lease payment, the DC Government gets more sales taxes and tourist revenue, and the developer/operator makes money. Win-win-win. It shouldn't be surprising that Ivanka's share of the profits exceeds that derived from foreign governments. Even in DC, foreign governments probably make up a small fraction of the hotel business, with those located right on Embassy Row perhaps doing a bit better.
   950. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:19 PM (#5692467)
BUREAUCRAT: Where did y'all stay last night?
FOREIGNER A: Supreme Leader Trump Hotel and Suites.
BUREAUCRAT: I like that answer.

BUREAUCRAT: Where did y'all stay last night?
FOREIGNER B: I dunno. Holiday Inn Express? Was that smart?
BUREAUCRAT: Oh my no.

There isn't the slightest indication that this "problem" exists anywhere outside of BDC's imagination.
   951. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:22 PM (#5692468)
I'm not sure what Zonk thinks he has here, but it appears to be nothing. The Trump Hotel has been profitable? I'm sure that upsets poor Zonk, not to mention Andy, who repeatedly predicted it would go bankrupt, but that was the whole idea of the project. GSA gets a larger lease payment, the DC Government gets more sales taxes and tourist revenue, and the developer/operator makes money. Win-win-win. It shouldn't be surprising that Ivanka's share of the profits exceeds that derived from foreign governments. Even in DC, foreign governments probably make up a small fraction of the hotel business, with those located right on Embassy Row perhaps doing a bit better.


I'm pretty sure you know EXACTLY what I think I "have" here... which is that an employee of the White House, who also happens to the President's daughter, made a pretty penny from a property you attempted to brush off over a $150K donation. Further, while I will - I'm sure I also shouldn't need to point out that same daughter got some Chinese trademark concessions that moved suspiciously quickly relative to non-Presidential daughters to say nothing of another WH employee getting an ethics slap on the wrist for hawking her 'brand', while her husband - who also happens to be a WH employee - saw his failing family real estate business get some suspiciously out of line lines of credit and investments.

Show me the complete books, or STFU.

As I explained in #932 - I know the "appearance" of impropriety means nothing to you, completely immoral and sans character that you are, so I'll put it in blunt, simple terms: I don't believe jackshit about what your feudal lords claim. Show me the books.
   952. dlf Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:23 PM (#5692469)
   953. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:23 PM (#5692471)
Trump ethics: nothing's happened so far. If it did, win-win-win.

Estados Unidos de Banana.
   954. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5692479)
Clapper in a nutshell:

Claire McCaskill took (her) private plane on an RV Trip! Pay attention to this!

Trump, his daughter, and his son-in-law - all employees of the administration - made mint on properties extremely cozy to the government, got a bunch of suspicious foreign and domestic concessions (via trademarks, lines of credit, and investments) that just happen to be coincidental with a Trump admin foreign and domestic policy. Do NOT pay attention to this because it's just TDS!

   955. perros Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:34 PM (#5692481)

Don’t tell England he finds this persuasive


They well know, them and their Canadian proxies. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
   956. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:40 PM (#5692488)
   957. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:52 PM (#5692497)
I'm pretty sure you know EXACTLY what I think I "have" here... which is that an employee of the White House, who also happens to the President's daughter, made a pretty penny from a property you attempted to brush off over a $150K donation. Further, while I will - I'm sure I also shouldn't need to point out that same daughter got some Chinese trademark concessions that moved suspiciously quickly relative to non-Presidential daughters to say nothing of another WH employee getting an ethics slap on the wrist for hawking her 'brand', while her husband - who also happens to be a WH employee - saw his failing family real estate business get some suspiciously out of line lines of credit and investments.

Oh, boo hoo, poor Zonk is bummed out that the Trump Hotel made a profit, on a deal signed, sealed, and delivered by the Obama Administration. That he thinks that is a scandal is on him. It's no more a scandal than a company receiving routine approval for its trademarks. This is a desperate attempt to make something out of nothing. Not surprising from the fellow who fled the country because of the election - some major perception problems there.
   958. perros Posted: June 14, 2018 at 07:54 PM (#5692498)
I though Twitter had lifted it's character limit. For some reason, the letters e-r-v-e-r got lopped off Hillary's response.
   959. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: June 14, 2018 at 08:28 PM (#5692506)
Oh, boo hoo, poor Zonk is bummed out that the Trump Hotel made a profit, on a deal signed, sealed, and delivered by the Obama Administration. That he thinks that is a scandal is on him. It's no more a scandal than a company receiving routine approval for its trademarks. This is a desperate attempt to make something out of nothing. Not surprising from the fellow who fled the country because of the election - some major perception problems there.


Oh slobber slobber, poor Clapper is bummed out that the President and his kids who work in the White House are being asked to disclose more than the extraordinarily loose and inconsequential FEC filings require of them. It's most certainly more a scandal because I'll reiterate - despite Clapper's lies - Jarvanka and daddy dearest were getting goodies well outside the norms of their non-banana pears. Their Chinese trademarks were getting approved at a far faster pace than their non-Trump peers and Jared's failing real estate business was getting lines of credit that are undeniably unique compared to the VC's and bank's previous investments. Not surprising that a syphilis-ridden dotard like Clapper has some major perception problems here.
   960. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 14, 2018 at 08:55 PM (#5692518)
Trump's new bestie

US warns of North Korea cyber campaign, days after historic summit

The US Department of Homeland Security said that it has identified malicious cyber activity by the North Korean government, according to a new report released on Thursday, just days after the historic summit between President Donald Trump and North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un.

DHS and FBI analysts working with US government partners highlighted the use of what are known as Trojan malware variants -- software used by the North Korean government that is intended to damage or disable computers and computer systems.


More of KJU's tough negotiating? The parents of the Korean War vets that Trump spoke with are rolling over in their graves.
   961. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 14, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5692521)
I'm not sure what Zonk thinks he has here, but it appears to be nothing. The Trump Hotel has been profitable? I'm sure that upsets poor Zonk, not to mention Andy, who repeatedly predicted it would go bankrupt,

Look, I know you've got to parrot the party line, and that's cool. But at least get your facts right.

I said that the Trump Hotel would likely go belly up within a year IF HILLARY WON THE ELECTION. Just as it'll go belly up by 2022 if Trump fails to win a second term, and for the same reason: There aren't enough rich idiots out there who'd want to throw their money at a LOSER.

Hell, even you might give up your act. Stranger things have happened.
   962. Howie Menckel Posted: June 14, 2018 at 09:12 PM (#5692524)
am way too many pages behind, but will throw a baseball analogy into what I'm hearing second-hand about that IG report on Comey etc.

a high-level reporter offering "gifts" of free concert tickets, meals, and other goodies in exchange for scoops from FBI agents reminds me of the dilemma of the PED era. some in any profession will always cheat to get ahead. so what do you do as a rival?

that aspect of the report repulses me to the nth degree. I have spoken to groups of young journalists and laid out the "clean" way. One of the most daunting parts of the job is getting sources to tell you - and ideally, only you - important info with only the promise of fairness and accuracy in return (sometimes I'd see frowns in the audience). the good news is that if you do it right, it works. it's an intense balancing act to get two sides of a bitter feud each to agree on just one thing - your professionalism - but it's also rewarding.

while the offer of lifestyle performance-enhancing options may be enticing to sources, most realize at some point that can be a deal with a devil - one that clearly is willing to cut all kinds of corners. so while you may get beat at first, if you stick with it, you come out ahead in the end.

I hate that the FBI confiscated electronic devices of media members, on principle - and stand by that. but if a few 'roided up reporters get caught with their arses flapping in the breeze on this - I guess I'll have to settle for a little schadenfreude in spite of my objections.
   963. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 09:26 PM (#5692531)
Look, I know you've got to parrot the party line, and that's cool. But at least get your facts right. I said that the Trump Hotel would likely go belly up within a year IF HILLARY WON THE ELECTION.

So, you were wrong about two things, not one? OK, noted.

Actually, I don't really recall Andy conditioning his prediction on Hillary winning, but since that premise was implicit in everything he said in the run-up to the election, I'll credit him as incorporating it any of his Trump Hotel comments.
   964. Greg K Posted: June 14, 2018 at 09:26 PM (#5692532)
But the polls seem to suggest a continued decline with the Conservatives and NDP both picking up ground on him (to the point that Conservatives are as likely to lead in a poll as Liberals).


Now that Ontario has a PC government provincially, it'll swing back towards the Grits federally. Ontario loathes, loathes, loathes having the same party in power provincially and federally. I don't think there's an analogous state in the States.


My parents' home riding is odd that way. Federally always Liberal, provincially it is prime Ford Nation.
   965. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 14, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5692535)
This was all widely reported. The Old Post Office building had been redeveloped decades ago, but flopped despite a great location right at the Federal Triangle METRO. It was mostly office space, some restaurants, and retail space that never took off under General Services Administration auspices. GSA gave up running the place itself, and put redeveloping the whole complex up for bid. The Trump bid won. How a free and fair transparent public bidding process overseen by your political opponents is "banana republic stuff" eludes me.


It's like talking to a wall with you. No one is arguing there was something improper with citizen Trump winning the bid under the Obama administration. And no one would have a problem if it was citizen Trump owning it today. It's that it's now President Trump who owns the hotel, and he knows it, and everyone else knows it, and that he's undoubtably making more money on it now that he's President. I know you have no problem with that either (though you undoubtably would if the President/owner had a different letter after his name), but others do. So please stop trying to justify it by citing how he came to be the owner 6 years ago. It has nothing to do with anything.
   966. BDC Posted: June 14, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5692537)
Sarah Sanders gives her interpretation of "Suffer little children":

in response to a question about comments made by the attorney general Jeff Sessions, where he cited a passage in the Bible to justify the policy.

“I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13 to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained them for the purpose of order,” said Sessions.

Sanders was asked about Sessions’ statement, and was challenged: “Where does it say in the Bible that’s moral to take children away from mothers?”

Pushing back, Sanders said: “I’m not aware of the attorney general’s comments or what he would be referencing, [but] I can say that it is very biblical to enforce the law. That is repeated throughout the Bible.”


It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Just sayin'.
   967. Greg K Posted: June 14, 2018 at 09:40 PM (#5692539)
Depends on the Bible I would think. The Geneva Bible was used to justify resistance to the state, whereas King James' Bible went out of its way to discourage righteous rebellion against ungodly tyrants...for some reason.
   968. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 09:51 PM (#5692544)
Isaiah 10

1Woe to those who make unjust laws,
to those who issue oppressive decrees,
2to deprive the poor of their rights
and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people,
making widows their prey
and robbing the fatherless.


Nobody understand the Bible less than conservatives. To hear them tell it, it’s all about smiting queers and abortion and the rest is all “tough titty” and “god helps those who help themselves”.
   969. perros Posted: June 14, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5692545)

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


What if you use the kids as a millstone?
   970. Srul Itza Posted: June 14, 2018 at 10:14 PM (#5692554)
It's like talking to a wall with you.


Replace the "wa" with a "tro", and you will be closer to the mark.
   971. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: June 14, 2018 at 10:25 PM (#5692556)
Replace the "wa" with a "tro", and you will be closer to the mark.

Nah, wrong three letters. "shi" are the ones you are looking for.
   972. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 14, 2018 at 10:50 PM (#5692560)
Look, I know you've got to parrot the party line, and that's cool. But at least get your facts right. I said that the Trump Hotel would likely go belly up within a year IF HILLARY WON THE ELECTION.

So, you were wrong about two things, not one? OK, noted.


You really do have a hard time admitting anything, don't you? Of course I was wrong about the election, but your recollection of my prediction about your favorite hotel was off by every bit as much.

Actually, I don't really recall Andy conditioning his prediction on Hillary winning,

May that memory lapse be a prelude to many future memory lapses. Hopefully you'll have many more of them after November 6th.
   973. Count Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5692568)
The IG report, as expected, is very critical of the FBI for actions that hurt Hillary and helped Trump. Clinton really was screwed over by the FBI and Comey.
   974. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:32 PM (#5692570)
This may be the last time anyone makes this mistake - Democratic Congressional Candidate Slams Billionaires & Corporations In Ad, While Wearing $9,000 Rolex Watch:
The top Democrat running in New York’s 19th Congressional District took out a full page ad in the Albany Times Union slamming the “billionaires” and the “corporations” who “have rigged the system against us.” It is a pretty typical political ad. He looks stern with his arms crossed and his sleeves rolled up on his blue dress shirt — literally a blue collar! And then, there's the $8,950 timepiece on his wrist.

It isn't easy being a man of the people. Photo at link.
   975. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:46 PM (#5692578)
No. If the person is deserving of a pardon executive clemency, then it doesn't matter who made the appeal, celebrity or no.

It may not be an ideal way to do this but any deserving pardon is a good one and not stupid at all.


Sorry, no. That's just not the way it works, and you damn well know you're arguing in bad faith because if the same argument were made in a baseball context you'd mock the manager. If the manager said, "I made this personnel decision because I went to an astrologer last night and she told me that the positions of the planets said I should," then it's stupid, regardless of whether the actual personnel move is sabermetrically a good one.

As a fan you'd be happy with the result, of course, but would not praise the manager or his decisionmaking process. You would condemn those.


You're badly disingenuous confused here. Kardashian brought it to Trump. (Or so the story goes.) But Trump still had to make a decision on the merits. Where are you getting this notion that Trump simply deferred to Kardashian and never considered whether Alice Marie Johnson was deserving of clemency or not? You're making that up out of thin air.

But it's good to know that you think celebrity causes are completely and utterly worthless and mockworthy.
   976. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:51 PM (#5692579)
But it's good to know that you think celebrity causes are completely and utterly worthless and mockworthy.


Sigh. C'mon, Ray, you know that's not what he's saying.
   977. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:51 PM (#5692581)
Yes, the people to "scroll past" would be those pointing out the sexism, rather than the sexist himself (who happens to also lecture this board 12 times a day about the Racism of Jeff Sessions).

Ray is arguing in bad faith again. He has never raised a complaint about alleged "sexism" in his life.


I raised such a complaint just last week re Samantha Bee.

(I mean, here on OTP; maybe IRL he's walking around his law office with a #metoo shirt on.) He cares only insofar as he can weaponize the accusation in the defense of Trump. He's far more likely to be found mocking someone else for raising claims of sexism as trivial as this one.


So in this post you both (a) put "sexism" in scare quotes and used the word "alleged," and (b) called Andy's statement a "trivial" display of sexism. Above you called Andy's statement "obnoxious and stupid" -- but not sexist.

Let's go on record. Do you agree that Andy's statement was sexist? Or do you think it was merely a "trivial" example. Or do you think it was not sexist at all but was simply "obnoxious and stupid." ?
   978. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:52 PM (#5692582)
If Cohen has indeed "flipped" it wouldn't be the least bit surprising, so it's hard to figure out what all the cheers from the TDSers are about. They're pursuing him for state crimes. As we know that means that Trump wouldn't be able to pardon him. So if he's looking at serious jail time he would naturally flip.......

.......presuming he has something to sell. It wouldn't be surprising if he has money laundering type crimes by Trump to sell. Whether he has anything collusion related -- which was supposed to be the point of all of this -- remains to be seen.

"They" are prosecutors in the Southern District of New York. Those are federal prosecutors. They are going after him for federal crimes, not state crimes, and Trump is able to pardon him.


No. "They" are not only federal prosecutors but the NY AG is involved as well. Thus they're also pursuing him for state crimes. And there's no reason to think that the resignation of the creepy serial domestic abuser Eric Schneiderman is going to Stop All Investigations. Underwood will likely continue with business as usual.
   979. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:57 PM (#5692583)
NY Attorney General just filed suit against the Trump family over Trump Foundation shenanigans.


As I was saying.
   980. Count Posted: June 14, 2018 at 11:59 PM (#5692584)
Ray you just got it wrong and you can admit it. Cohen is being targeted by federal prosecutors, and Cohen basically asked Trump for a pardon through the press. I'm not sure what NY AG investigation you're referring to. If it's the Trump Foundation investigation, an investigation by the NYAG unlikely to result in criminal charges.
   981. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 15, 2018 at 12:00 AM (#5692585)
EDIT: I hadn’t seen 711 before I posted. It started out well... but then Andy blew it by feeling the need to go to the “but.” Whether someone else failed to condemn Trump is irrelevant.

I totally agree it's irrelevant when it comes to something I said. But while it may be irrelevant to that particular point, those questions are still quite relevant to pose to Trump supporters, and it's also noteworthy that they consistently go unanswered.

I also have a minor confession to make, which some of you probably figured out right from the beginning: My original comment about Sanders was quite consciously posted with the intent of seeing what sort of a reaction it would bring. You might call it a little experiment.


You admitted you made a sexist comment. Now you're admitting you're a troll. Not your finest hour, Andy.

For all the people who call SBB a troll, to fail to call Andy one after this display would be sad, though -- sadly -- not unexpected.
   982. Hot Wheeling American Posted: June 15, 2018 at 12:00 AM (#5692586)
As you were saying? That happened like fifteen hours before you just predicted it. Not a good look. Very telling indeed.
   983. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2018 at 12:00 AM (#5692587)
So am I correct that the IG report dropped and both Ray and Jason have been conspicuous in their reluctance to discuss it?

Why don't we get another round about how Ray understood the statute better than the Justice department?
Some more conspiracy theorizing from Jason about how gay frogs are to blame?

Seriously, there were thousands upon thousands of words spilled over how they were so sure they were right and we would all see.
   984. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 15, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5692588)
Let's go on record. Do you agree that Andy's statement was sexist? Or do you think it was merely a "trivial" example. Or do you think it was not sexist at all but was simply "obnoxious and stupid." ?


It was an unnecessary comment.

The frustrating aspect is that, as expected, a lot of the people who took the most issue with it are the same people who have hand-waived away countless comments by Trump that are equally or more vile. For me, it's not even a turnabout is fair play sort of deal. It just gets tiresome when some of you guys gloss over or are silent on things Trump says, but suddenly and miraculously are very concerned about inappropriate comments and sexism when the target is someone on the right.
   985. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 15, 2018 at 12:06 AM (#5692589)
Ray you just got it wrong and you can admit it.


I'm admitted in the SDNY and appeared there three weeks ago. I know it's a federal court.

I had it right -- Cohen is being investigated for state crimes (in addition to federal ones) -- and you had it wrong when you said he wasn't.
   986. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 15, 2018 at 12:24 AM (#5692592)
No. No he won’t. We’ll stop it,” Strzok responded.

Guess he was wrong, huh?

Once again, if this was a conspiracy to put Hillary in the White House, it was the most inept one ever.


Except that we don't judge these things by results, but by process and intent. If A tries to murder B by shooting him and misses, we don't say "Oh what an inept shot A is. Oh well, moving on." We prosecute A for attempted murder.

The Strzok/Page texts show extreme political bias -- so much so that Mueller had to remove Strzok. And Strzok was deeply involved in both the Clinton and the Trump investigations -- and we know he delayed a month on the Weiner issue.

Finally, part of this was to shackle Trump with the Russia collusion investigation in the event that Trump won. Which is exactly what's happened.
   987. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2018 at 12:27 AM (#5692593)
Let's go on record. Do you agree that Andy's statement was sexist? Or do you think it was merely a "trivial" example. Or do you think it was not sexist at all but was simply "obnoxious and stupid." ?


Andy's statement was clearly sexist, and his lame-ass attempted backtrack ("It was just a social experiment, bro") is the favored excuse of jackasses everywhere called out on their ####.

None of that means that anyone is interested in you passing judgment because you transparently don't give a #### about feminism or women. You are just aware that other people think it is bad, so you see it as a useful tool against people you disagree with.

People on the left really do care about sexism, and you can see that in all the fire that Andy drew.
   988. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 15, 2018 at 12:45 AM (#5692595)
Look, I know you've got to parrot the party line, and that's cool. But at least get your facts right. I said that the Trump Hotel would likely go belly up within a year IF HILLARY WON THE ELECTION.

So, you were wrong about two things, not one? OK, noted.

You really do have a hard time admitting anything, don't you? Of course I was wrong about the election, but


No you weren't, Andy. Won by millions. That's how McCoy characterized the election results in post 799, and I'm sure David and Sam will be happy to back him up on that. So don't sell yourself short. Won by millions.
   989. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 15, 2018 at 01:01 AM (#5692597)
So am I correct that the IG report dropped and both Ray and Jason have been conspicuous in their reluctance to discuss it?

Why don't we get another round about how Ray understood the statute better than the Justice department?
Some more conspiracy theorizing from Jason about how gay frogs are to blame?

Seriously, there were thousands upon thousands of words spilled over how they were so sure they were right and we would all see.


I just started catching up to the thread an hour or so ago. I'm sorry I'm not able to read BBTF on your schedule. I'm not reluctant to discuss any of it. (Except to the extent that I'm not familiar with much of it yet.)

At any rate it's not clear to me what you're talking about here. I was right about the statute. And I never argued that I understood it better than the JD. My interpretation of it agrees 100% with Comey's. You're very confused here. Comey's decision not to recommend prosecution for Hillary wasn't because he misunderstood the statute or misinterpreted the statute; it was because he felt that the requisite intent was missing and he didn't want to prosecute her under the gross negligence prong. (That was the "no reasonable prosecutor" bit.) He said that he couldn't find other instances where someone was prosecuted on facts similar to Hillary's. And I -- despite whatever you're trying to assert above -- never disagreed with him on that. I don't know enough about past prosecution decisions -- and never did -- to question him on that.

--

What do you mean I said "we would all see"? We would all see _what_? It's not something I ever argued. We already saw; Comey didn't prosecute. I never said the IG's report would tell us Hillary should have been prosecuted; in fact, I said the opposite. I specifically said last week -- in being critical of the idiot Sean Hannity -- that the issue of whether Hillary should have been charged was beyond the scope of the IG's report.

You're really making things up here. Have at it, I guess, if that's how you get your jollies in.
   990. perros Posted: June 15, 2018 at 01:08 AM (#5692598)

People on the left really do care about sexism, and you can see that in all the fire that Andy drew.


Political correctness was first used leftists to describe other people of their tribe playing cop on these kinds of things, and it takes up way too much time and space here. In RL, we'd understand Andy is an old man with antiquated views on a lot of things, for which the proper response would be a knowing smile that he probably needs a diaper change.

Also, it tends to feed itself -- if you don't respond to my pet social and political grievances, should I take it that you Don't care about these wrongs, or worse yet, secretly support them?

All I know is that people here like to discuss politics with people largely of their own race, sex, class, gender and sexual preference and, most of all, their opinions. Funny that.
   991. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 15, 2018 at 06:14 AM (#5692608)
In RL, we'd understand Andy is an old man with antiquated views on a lot of things, for which the proper response would be a knowing smile that he probably needs a diaper change.


Well as long as we’re not calling a fat woman fat. That was uncouth.
   992. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 15, 2018 at 06:53 AM (#5692611)
People on the left really do care about sexism, and you can see that in all the fire that Andy drew.

Look, I realize that this is 2018, and every instance of sexism has to be lumped together with every other instance, and damned with the same intensity. And as I said, my implicit snarky comment concerning Sarah Sanders' less than spectacular physical appearance (along with her voice) is evidence of my occasional failure to get with the entire program.

And I don't mind being made a minor whipping boy in reaction to what I wrote, because even though every woman I've ever known would give you the world's biggest eyeroll at the thought that I'm some sort of sexist in any meaningful way, none of you out there know me personally, and so none of you would have any way of knowing what those women know. And since this is the internet, we can all pretend that I'm symbolically guilty of throwing womankind under the bus.

Though it'd take a pretty big bus with pretty big wheels to fit Sarah Sanders under it. (/ducks)

(Okay, forget that last line. But you can't, can you?)

But here's a distinction I think that needs to be kept in mind, even if I'm sure it'll come off as self-serving, and that's the distinction that Russell Baker liked to make between serious and solemn. That can sound pretentious and abstract, but it's the difference (in the case of sexism) between spending one's energy on issues such as date rape, job discrimination and glass ceilings, dismissal of women's opinions, sexual harassment, trying to control women's choices about their own bodies----and going nuclear over the sort of private comments** that are made every day by men and women about this person or that person's physical appearance.

And to those who find the above to be little more than One Big Rationalization for Horrific Behavior, be honest and at least admit this to yourselves, though I know you can't say it out loud in the circles some of you might travel in: There's not a single one of you who would find Sarah Sanders even marginally attractive, even after 10 drinks, unless you were angling for a job at the White House or trying to get your unemployment benefits extended. I'll end it on that.

** Yes, this is a public forum of sorts, but it's not as if I'm posting on a website with 100,000 viewers, and in real life I'd never have made a comment like the one I did in front of anyone who didn't already know me.
   993. . Posted: June 15, 2018 at 06:53 AM (#5692612)
The IG report, as expected, is very critical of the FBI for actions that hurt Hillary and helped Trump.


The IG proved that the FBI badly abused its power and interfered in the campaign to try to stop Trump.(*) That desire was the ultimate source of RUSSIA! RUSSIA!

Careful and attentive readers read that here long, long ago.

(*) Banana republic stuff far in excess of Trump having his name on a few hotels. I'm not really thrilled with him still having such significant business interests, but it pales in comparison to the obvious FBI election interference.
   994. . Posted: June 15, 2018 at 06:56 AM (#5692613)
Finally, part of this was to shackle Trump with the Russia collusion investigation in the event that Trump won. Which is exactly what's happened.


A-yup.
   995. . Posted: June 15, 2018 at 06:58 AM (#5692614)
And as I said, my implicit snarky comment concerning Sarah Sanders' less than spectacular physical appearance (along with her voice) is evidence of my occasional failure to get with the entire program.


No, it's evidence that you're a sexist.

And I don't mind being made a minor whipping boy in reaction to what I wrote, because even though every woman I've ever known would give you the world's biggest eyeroll at the thought that I'm some sort of sexist in any meaningful way, none of you out there know me personally, and so none of you would have any way of knowing what those women know.


"Some of my very best friends are black."
   996. McCoy Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:08 AM (#5692615)

The Strzok/Page texts show extreme political bias -- so much so that Mueller had to remove Strzok. And Strzok was deeply involved in both the Clinton and the Trump investigations -- and we know he delayed a month on the Weiner issue.

Finally, part of this was to shackle Trump with the Russia collusion investigation in the event that Trump won. Which is exactly what's happened.



This is rabbit hole conspiracy nonsense. Because it is convenient Strzok and Page become the leaders of the Illuminati in Trump defender's fevered dreams. Meanwhile guys and gals who do actually control the government have their inappropriate actions ignored because they are wearing the right color laundry.
   997. . Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:14 AM (#5692617)
Because it is convenient Strzok and Page become the leaders of the Illuminati in Trump defender's fevered dreams.


No, it's because they had major roles in the investigations at issue. Essentially lead roles. Strzok opened the investigation on Papadopolous. No reason to believe that was anything but part of the plan to "stop" Trump and create an "insurance policy."
   998. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 15, 2018 at 07:29 AM (#5692621)
Not being anhysterical Trumpholster would be a good reason.
   999. Lassus Posted: June 15, 2018 at 08:06 AM (#5692623)
No you weren't, Andy. Won by millions. That's how McCoy characterized the election results in post 799, and I'm sure David and Sam will be happy to back him up on that. So don't sell yourself short. Won by millions.

This is ridiculous even by your own surreal standards.
   1000. manchestermets Posted: June 15, 2018 at 08:11 AM (#5692624)
Don’t tell England he finds this persuasive.


Too late. Now, if you'll all make your appointments to bend the knee to Her Majesty, we can pretend all of this silliness from the last 242 years never happened.
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