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Monday, June 25, 2018

OTP 2018 June 25: Charles Krauthammer’s Love Of Baseball Leaves A Lasting Legacy

In recent days, many of Charles’ admirers had honored his formidable body of work and conservative convictions. I’m here to pay respects to his love of baseball, which made him and the world a happier place.

“If you believe, as do I, that God created baseball as a relief from politics, I herewith offer, as a public service, a column about [Bryce] Harper & friends,” he wrote in an exquisite column for The Washington Post in 2016.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 11:43 AM | 2113 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: politics

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   101. Morty Causa Posted: June 25, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5699328)
93:

I didn't mean making the claim just at the border, but also later after crossing the border when apprehended. There's a procedure for seeking asylum. The illegal aliens I have in mind didn't avail themselves of it until they were caught later.
   102. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5699329)
Life is hard and it is rife with hard choices. That doesn't make the USA the guarantor of everyone in the world's rights.


No, it doesn't.

But again - you kept bringing up "we".

I'm a part of a "we".

And when it comes down to it - if a family decides to leave rather than just 'play ball' with the formerly local powers that be, my opinion is "Bienvenido a los Estados Unidos".

So we'll have to compromise.
   103. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5699331)
I didn't mean making the claim just at the border, but also later after crossing the border when apprehended. There's a procedure for seeking asylum. The illegal aliens I have in mind didn't avail themselves of it until they were caught later.


Clearly, you haven't been following Trump administration actions that have ground port of entry asylum seeking to a virtual standstill.
   104. Morty Causa Posted: June 25, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5699336)
That's why I speak of it being vital and necessary that there be a process. And that we adhere to its outcome. If you win, fine. If the Trumptards win...what say you?
   105. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 03:55 PM (#5699337)
According to Gallup, Americans who approved of Trump’s performance in office dropped from 45 to 41 percent between Sunday, June 17 and Sunday, June 24.

Over the same period, Trump’s disapproval number went from 50 to 55 percent.

Fun while it lasted!


So you think it might have something to do with Cages for Kids as official US policy? That maybe that was horrifically unpopular and that is why GOP President Trump cravenly abandoned his principles in the face of a national outcry? He sounds more and more like a standard politician.

Good thing he is now in touch with reality. Oh ... wait ...

“My people love it.”

— President Trump, quoted by the New York Times, telling advisers that separating families at the border was the best deterrent to illegal immigration.
   106. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5699341)
There's a procedure for seeking asylum


That Trump has all but shut down. Asylum seekers are being turned away in droves at ports of entry. Thus, they enter illegally in order to find someone to hear their asylum claim.
   107. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5699342)
But he is obligated, if not by law, then by custom and basic decency, to be president of all Americans, not just the minority of Americans that got him elected.

Please, it is to laugh.

I think you meant to say "womp womp". Or was it "I REALLY DON'T CARE, DO U?"
   108. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5699344)
That's why I speak of it being vital and necessary that there be a process. And that we adhere to its outcome. If you win, fine. If the Trumptards win...what say you?


Except I thought I was pretty clear that I did not think legislating should be a zero sum game.

It just goes back to this whole "open borders" - or hell, "disband ICE!" - rhetoric.

I support the political narrative because as I said, I'm tired of losing (even losing when team blue actually has the plurality) when the rules of political narrative clearly are not universally applied.

It would be far better - I agree - if that weren't the case. But clearly, it's not. Tried it. It failed. So - we'll learn to play the same game, but play it better.

If legislating from a position of strength and majority ultimately becomes what it has become on the Trumpublican side - a raft of hyperbole, absolutism, and complete shutting out of the 'other side'... well, then I'll have some sober choices to make.

   109. Howie Menckel Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5699351)
62 (on a NY Times reporter, according to the Times, having slept with multiple sources) may be referring to Donald Trump Jr.'s new girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle.

She is a San Francisco native of Irish/Puerto Rican descent who has worked in the LA and SF DA's offices. She was married to progressive SF Mayor Gavin Newsom from 2001-06, at which point she joined Fox News and married an heir to a furniture fortune (I am not making this up. If you're wondering who she is, she is the Fox one that is NOT a blonde).

The second marriage didn't take, either, after 3 years. In 2016, she was said to be in line to take what now is Sarah Sanders' job. In 2017, it was widely reported that she had become romantically involved with Anthony "The Mooch" Scaramucci.

I guess the difference would be that at least here, we know it. also, I think she is commentator, not a reporter. that said, I would find it silly to listen to even a commentator who is knocking boots with the President's son talk about politics. and then, I'm not even sure what Fox News thinks itself is anymore.
   110. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5699358)
I'm not even sure what Fox News thinks itself is anymore.


Völkischer Beobachter secretly jealous of Der Stürmer
   111. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5699361)
Typical for a Trumpkin, I guess...

But ought to be pointed out that GE has been in serious trouble for some time now. It just recently got delisted from Dow, it's shedding divisions at breakneck pace, and while it's probably still got years ahead of it - it's rapidly on its way to irrelevance.

Like I said, though... typical. Republicans are experts regarding the private sector they have no experience or knowledge in or about.
Buying low is a good thing, zonk. Don't be so Ruben Amaro Jr. all the time.
   112. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:38 PM (#5699362)
Or was it "I REALLY DON'T CARE, DO U?"
Don't give up your books and posters, Andy. You're even less funny that Mike Huckabee.
   113. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5699363)
No Trumpkin here, zonk, but "buy low, sell high" is kind of a good thing.


If the subtle irony of the sentence construction was intentional, I will offer up a well-deserved Well Done.

If not, I'll just say that it's your money... invest it however you wish.
   114. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:43 PM (#5699365)
Krauthammer wasn't wrong about much but this position on the election in 2012 was so totally scandalous:
To my mind, no question: Miguel Cabrera is the MVP. Anybody who does something major — mindbogglingly difficult — that hasn’t been done since 1967 is automatically MVP — I don’t care if his team finishes behind the Astros or if some godlike rookie is (temporarily) denied the honor. The Trouter will win Rookie of the Year this year, and MVPs in many years to come. It has to go to Cabrera.
   115. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5699366)
But he is obligated, if not by law, then by custom and basic decency, to be president of all Americans, not just the minority of Americans that got him elected.

Please, it is to laugh.

I think you meant to say "womp womp". Or was it "I REALLY DON'T CARE, DO U?"

Don't give up your books and posters, Andy. You're even less funny that Mike Huckabee.


The truth hurts, doesn't it? But then anyone who's defended Trump as often as you have wouldn't even know the meaning of the word.
   116. zenbitz Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5699367)
Crowds in Iran are chanting "Death to Palestine!" Not to Israel. Not to America. But to Palestine.


I told you Iran was Israel's natural geopolitical ally, but did you listen... nooooooo.
   117. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 04:54 PM (#5699368)
I told you Iran was Israel's natural geopolitical ally, but did you listen... nooooooo.
LOL, zenbitz. I have never disputed that the Iranian people are light years more progressive than the theocrats.
   118. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:04 PM (#5699374)
Asylum seekers are being turned away in droves at ports of entry.


It's actually far worse than this. Prior to being turned away, they're being detained (which is legalese and authoritarian-speak for arrested without cause.) And when they are detained, they are separated from their children. The Trump regime makes zero distinction between asylum seekers who attempt to go through a legal port of entry and people walking the coyote paths of the desert. They're all "infestations" of pests to them. This is the Stephen Miller world view. If you're not Euro-white, you're beneath animals. Animals are kept. Pests are removed. They are fascists in spirit and action, and if you continue to support them, you are either Quisling or Vichy, depending on what it took to purchase your soul. You are the enemy.
   119. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:12 PM (#5699376)
In the prior thread, Sleepy typed:
He applied for the green card in February- why has the Government not processed it yet?
On what grounds would he have been eligible, let alone approved?
   120. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:14 PM (#5699377)
He's certainly as swarthy as any mideastern terrorist.
And I would've gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling kids.
   121. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5699379)
On what grounds would he have been eligible, let alone approved?


Things we can't know, because the government hasn't ####### processed the claim.
   122. zenbitz Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5699380)
Yes. I absolutely oppose and think it's horribly bad policy to create permanent second-class residents.


The word "permanent" here is carrying a lot of water. Is this policy worse than H1-Bs or other work visas? Specifically, these are not Permanent, because the visa expires. You need to somehow transition to O1 ("green card") or other visa type or leave the country after several years. Why not essentially make H1-B status (electively) permanent? Maybe you have 6 months to find a job or you go out of status (but as we all know I am not in favor of deportations... so unclear what happens if you go out of status... just become 3rd class citizen?.

I actually DON'T think 15-20 years is too long to apply for citizenship for someone who snuck in the country. I actually think it should be directly tied to taxes paid. In effect, putting a price on citizenship. Probably something like $10K + $3K/year of age past 18. With all federal and state income back taxes paid in full.

Obviously, if you are born here you are a citizen. Not sure how to handle "dreamers" who arrive here (illegally) as minors. The should have a path -- easier the younger they are -- but not free and clear. Could just use some kind of linear scale.

I DO think -- as an open borders advocate -- you have to restrict access to the welfare state (which I support!) and even voting rights. Maybe that's because, working in science I know many dozens of people on H1/J1/O1 visas who don't get to vote and manage to not get marginalized.

   123. zenbitz Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5699381)
The fact that the right wingers are now opposed to that is a good example of Trump moving the immigration discussion to the right.


But I have been assured that this is a "lurch to the left"!!! And usually David is better about his arguments. What actually IS the baseline for immigration policy? 2008? 2002? 1902? 1802?
   124. BrianBrianson Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5699382)
Maybe that's because, working in science I know many dozens of people on H1/J1/O1 visas who don't get to vote and manage to not get marginalized.


I mean, I'm a scientist, and a J1, and it is more marginal than when I was a T2 in the UK and could, say, vote (though, no recourse to public funds).
   125. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5699383)
Just a few hours ago, Juannity brought up birthright citizenship. Of course, Half the Republican in 2016 were in favor of this - but unlike his whinging about "open borders! open borders!", he pretends this doesn't exist or is some niche position.
Um, what? Where have I ever championed the idea of changing the Constitution so that anyone born on US soil shouldn't automically receive citizenship?
   126. zenbitz Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5699384)
I think Perros is the only one who has actually advocated for pure open borders.


Me too!
   127. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5699385)
But I have been assured that this is a "lurch to the left"!!! And usually David is better about his arguments. What actually IS the baseline for immigration policy? 2008? 2002? 1902? 1802?
The rhetoric may be more harsh than it was before the summer of 2015 but Republicans last year gave into Trump and are now willing to support DACA.
   128. zenbitz Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:24 PM (#5699386)
Sure, they'd like it better if it were confirmed in law.


In my dotage I have come around on this. Sometimes it's better to have laws or rules "on the books" that are essentially never enforced. As an anti-####### protocol. You see this in various park or public transit rules.
Of course some moron always abuses the power by becoming the boss/being elected president and ruins everything.

This is why we can't have nice things.
   129. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5699390)
So...

I oppose the death penalty period. Full stop.

But this appeal opens up some questions.

Before South Dakota jurors decided the fate of Charles Rhines in 1993, they sent a handwritten note to the judge. They had just found Rhines guilty of fatally stabbing 22-year-old Donnivan Schaeffer, an employee of Dig ‘Em Donuts in Rapid City, during a robbery a year earlier. But now they had some questions.

If they didn’t vote for the death penalty, what would his life in prison look like? Would he be “allowed to mix with the general inmate population”? Would he be able “to create a group of followers or admirers”? Would he have a cellmate?

The judge said he couldn’t answer, and the jury sent Rhines to death row, where he remains today. A few years ago, those seemingly innocuous questions became crucial to the last-ditch efforts to save his life. Rhines’s lawyers knew that the jurors had been told that Rhines is gay. They went looking for jurors, following a hunch that turned out to be correct.

“There was lots of discussion of homosexuality,” one juror recalled, according to affidavits later filed in court. “There were lots of folks who were like, ‘Ew, I can’t believe that.’” Another juror said they “knew that he was a homosexual and thought that he shouldn’t be able to spend his life with men in prison.” A third recalled overhearing a fellow juror say that life in prison would mean “sending him where he wants to go.”


The whole piece is worth a read.

I'm certainly not going to debate Rhines' worth as a human being - the crime was brutal, his reaction inhuman, etc.

But - I've met enough exonerated people, many who spent years - as in literally years in long, drawn-out legal battles that in many cases, only came to a close when they agreed to sign away their rights to file any compensation claims to know that from the heinous to the mundane:

Letter of the law folks have a really funny way of deciding where they chose to fight their battles.
   130. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:32 PM (#5699391)
Um, what? Where have I ever championed the idea of changing the Constitution so that anyone born on US soil shouldn't automically receive citizenship?


No, but what you have done is cherry-pick something someone said and run around screaming OPEN BORDERS OPEN BORDERS OPEN BORDERS!

But, of course - when I point out that half the GOP field in 2016 supported doing precisely that... and the one who won was the loudest and proudest about it... why... the nerve! Accusing you of something you never "championed".

   131. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5699392)
On what grounds would he have been eligible, let alone approved?


Legally? I have no idea. I'll leave that to the lawyers. Morally and practically? The man has been here for many years, apparently has no criminal record, and is supporting a wife and 2 children, all or whom are American citizens. Denying him green card and deporting him helps no one and harms many.
   132. zenbitz Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:35 PM (#5699393)
seen them literally putting children into concentration camps - and changed their mind. Jason, Clapper, Ray


I'm sure I owe cokes here but Ray has come out for open borders in this (or rather, last week's) thread.
   133. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:36 PM (#5699394)
Paging Mouse...

KEITH ELLISON POSES WITH SIGN CALLING AMERICA ‘STOLEN LAND’ [VIDEO]:
Democratic Rep. Keith Ellison of Minnesota poses for a photo. A spokesman for Ellison has not yet returned an email inquiring whether the congressman endorses the sign’s open borders message.

The congressman has a history of endorsing fringe political candidates and messages.

Ellison was caught on video wearing a T-shirt in May that read, “yo no creo en fronteras,” which translates to: “I don’t believe in borders.”
What's wrong, Mouse? Are you really unaware of what's taking place only a few feet outside your lily-white cul-de-sac?
   134. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5699396)
No, but what you have done is cherry-pick something someone said and run around screaming OPEN BORDERS OPEN BORDERS OPEN BORDERS!

But, of course - when I point out that half the GOP field in 2016 supported doing precisely that... and the one who won was the loudest and proudest about it... why... the nerve! Accusing you of something you never "championed".
Make up your mind: Was it half of Republicans in a single poll or half of the GOP field? And if the latter, which ones, other than Trump?

And while I strongly oppose such an initiative, at least proponents understood that doing so required a constitutional amendment, which obviously requires 100-percent transparency. In contrast, the radical position your side champions may be accomplished in large part by stealth.
   135. zenbitz Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:43 PM (#5699398)
TIL that "Womp Womp" was onomatopoeia for "sad trombone"
   136. zenbitz Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:45 PM (#5699399)
but Republicans last year gave into Trump and are now willing to support DACA.


Keep me posted when they put it up for a vote. Until then, just tweets.
   137. zenbitz Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5699400)
Wow Keith Ellison AND Kamala Harris! What does Barbara Lee think?
   138. perros Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:50 PM (#5699402)

A) People who sneak across the border and claim asylum should be let into the country for months or years while their claim is being adjudicated.

So you are/were okay with blocking Jewish asylum seekers from Nazi Germany from entry while their cases were being adjucated? Or is this just a new part of Libertarianism we've all somehow missed?
   139. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:54 PM (#5699404)
Wow Keith Ellison AND Kamala Harris! What does Barbara Lee think?
Nice try, pretty boy. We're only describing the no. 2 at the DNC and one of the favorites for the POTUS nomination in two years.
   140. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:56 PM (#5699406)
We're only describing the no. 2 at the DNC and one of the favorites for the POTUS nomination in two years.


Donald. Trump.
   141. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:57 PM (#5699407)
Again - it's a misdemeanor. How many misdemeanors have you committed in your life?
None.
I've committed quite a few - and the overwhelming majority didn't even result in a citation/fine.
Better luck next time. Every day there are Americans who go to jail on a misdemeanor charge.
   142. perros Posted: June 25, 2018 at 05:59 PM (#5699409)
In my dotage I have come around on this. Sometimes it's better to have laws or rules "on the books" that are essentially never enforced. As an anti-####### protocol. You see this in various park or public transit rules.
Of course some moron always abuses the power by becoming the boss/being elected president and ruins everything.


Except you have to ignore the previous moron (and the majority of dems, past and present) who was all about getting tough on immigrants.

It's sub-moronic to think there's such a thing as good cops.
   143. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:00 PM (#5699410)
None.


Lying liars who lie for 200, Alex.
   144. perros Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:03 PM (#5699411)
   145. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:07 PM (#5699413)
The word "permanent" here is carrying a lot of water. Is this policy worse than H1-Bs or other work visas? Specifically, these are not Permanent, because the visa expires. You need to somehow transition to O1 ("green card") or other visa type or leave the country after several years. Why not essentially make H1-B status (electively) permanent? Maybe you have 6 months to find a job or you go out of status (but as we all know I am not in favor of deportations... so unclear what happens if you go out of status... just become 3rd class citizen?.


Because ultimately - my preference is that if someone chooses to come to the US... for education, work, both - I strongly wish to legislate a preference for those who do so in order to become 'permanent' (almost said 'residents' - but what I mean is 'citizens').

I have a good friend - only recently naturalized - who was long-time legal resident. His parents had immigrated when he was very young. They weren't asylum seekers or the like - while not uber rich, his family was fairly well-off (in a nice suburb, business-owner sense). He lived in the US from the time he learned to talk. All of his schooling was in the US (I met him in college). Post-college, he married an American citizen (not for any nefarious purposes - also a college classmate). Had kids - US citizens, all. Post-marriage/pre-kids - we were talking politics (this would have been 10 yeas ago or so) and over the course of the conversation, he mentioned he actually never bothered with citizenship application. It was just "easier" (his own words) - to keep re-upping his visa. Less hassle.

By no real measure was he 'milking' the system - he's one of the wealthier people I know (and not because of his parents - they're very Warren Buffet-like. Paid for his college - he's been on his own for the rest). He probably pays more in taxes in than I make.

Still, this bothers/bothered me, too... he'd lived (at the time) about 33 of this 35 years in the US. He's got an American citizen wife and American citizen kids.

Bank accounts are the great global equalizer, I guess - but he obviously wasn't the sort who was in any real danger of being subject to the problems of "second class residency".

Anyway - the happy ending is that he did decide to go "through the hassle"... Trump was the motivator. So that's good, I guess. 2018 will be his first time casting a ballot.

I actually DON'T think 15-20 years is too long to apply for citizenship for someone who snuck in the country. I actually think it should be directly tied to taxes paid. In effect, putting a price on citizenship. Probably something like $10K + $3K/year of age past 18. With all federal and state income back taxes paid in full.


Ugh. No. Our current system already HAS a price on citizenship. I think we both know that. If you've got a large enough bank account, you can easily "buy" citizenship... the problem is that - for a variety of reasons - lots of folks (including my good friend above) choose not to do so for a variety of reasons. Pass.

Force the reprioritization towards those who want actual citizenship... not those who can pay to stay because it's "nicer".

Obviously, if you are born here you are a citizen. Not sure how to handle "dreamers" who arrive here (illegally) as minors. The should have a path -- easier the younger they are -- but not free and clear. Could just use some kind of linear scale.


No current or proposed paths are free and clear.

I do always fall back on the 2013 bill as a compromise that I'd accept. It's not my preference, but I would support it.

I DO think -- as an open borders advocate -- you have to restrict access to the welfare state (which I support!) and even voting rights. Maybe that's because, working in science I know many dozens of people on H1/J1/O1 visas who don't get to vote and manage to not get marginalized.


Yes on "welfare state" - at least, while in the years of reaching citizenship. No on voting. At least, like I said above - the inverse is a problem, too.

Heinleinian "Be a Grunt to Gain Citizenship" vs non-citizen, but ironically more powerful isn't quite as bad... but it's a different kind of bad.

Most of the folks we're actively discussing politically are no the "borderless through bank account sorts" - so that's why my main focus is on them. But from a broader perspective? The inverse is a NOT a better situation. It's just "less bad".
   146. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:08 PM (#5699414)
The whole piece is worth a read. I'm certainly not going to debate Rhines' worth as a human being - the crime was brutal, his reaction inhuman, etc.

No, you'll just selectively quote from the sympathetic part of an article that badly misstates the facts of the case. Rhines got the death penalty because he laughed about how he brutally killed the victim during his confession. Pro Tip: Don't do that. The Supreme Court denied review of his case without recorded dissent. It was a bogus claim.
   147. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:13 PM (#5699415)
None.


No wonder you're not a lot of fun to be around.
   148. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5699416)
So you are/were okay with blocking Jewish asylum seekers from Nazi Germany from entry while their cases were being adjucated?

The Nazi argument isn't any better than when it was raised in the "flee the country" context. Find real Nazis and you will have some real political asylum claims. That's not what's going on at the southern border now.
   149. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5699418)
No, you'll just selectively quote from a sympathetic article that badly misstates the facts of the case. Rhines got the death penalty because he laughed about how he brutally killed the victim during his confession. Pro Tip: Don't do that. The Supreme Court denied review of his case without recorded dissent. It was a bogus claim.


So you're saying the juror who stated in an affidavit that the guy's sexual orientation was a factor in jury deliberations was lying?

Isn't that perjury?

More zero tolerance? Or is this one of those situations where discretion applies?
   150. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:21 PM (#5699422)

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

Surprised that Harley-Davidson, of all companies, would be the first to wave the White Flag. I fought hard for them and ultimately they will not pay tariffs selling into the E.U., which has hurt us badly on trade, down $151 Billion. Taxes just a Harley excuse - be patient! #MAGA
2:28 PM - 25 Jun 2018


Dear Leader demands you be patient!

   151. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:21 PM (#5699423)
The evidence didn't support Rhines' claim, Zonk. Is that too difficult for you to comprehend? If you don't like that, take it up with Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor & Kagan, who, along with their colleagues, didn't buy the claim, either.
   152. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:22 PM (#5699424)
No wonder you're not a lot of fun to be around.
Sorry that dunking my head into the Wrigley Field troth isn't what I consider a good time.
   153. perros Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:22 PM (#5699425)

It's actually far worse than this. Prior to being turned away, they're being detained (which is legalese and authoritarian-speak for arrested without cause.) And when they are detained, they are separated from their children. The Trump regime makes zero distinction between asylum seekers who attempt to go through a legal port of entry and people walking the coyote paths of the desert. They're all "infestations" of pests to them. This is the Stephen Miller world view. If you're not Euro-white, you're beneath animals. Animals are kept. Pests are removed. They are fascists in spirit and action, and if you continue to support them, you are either Quisling or Vichy, depending on what it took to purchase your soul. You are the enemy.


I have no problem with this pov if you don't ignore the long history leading up to Trump. You could go back 400 years if you like, to the mass extermination of the indigenous population and the institution of chattel slavery.

Nits make lice is not a Trumpian innovation.
   154. perros Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:24 PM (#5699426)
Find real Nazis and you will have some real political asylum claims

Let YR strip search you for certain telling tattoos and then we'll talk.
   155. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:30 PM (#5699429)
No wonder you're not a lot of fun to be around.

Sorry that dunking my head into the Wrigley Field troth isn't what I consider a good time.


I don't think that's illegal.

...and I think you mean "trough".

You just can't stop with the irony - because I'm pretty sure a 'troth' is an archaic term for some kind of solemn pledge of fealty... though, IIRC - I have a somewhat vague recollection that the term has been more recently used in intra-aryan squabbles.
   156. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:32 PM (#5699430)
Contra Boot, there's someone at ABGL who demonstrates how a #NeverTrump columnist can still think clearly.

Harvard Is Wrong That Asians Have Terrible Personalities:


Earlier this month, we learned that a review of more than 160,000 individual student files contained in six years of Harvard’s admissions data found that Asians outperformed all other racial groups on every measure of academic achievement: grades, SAT scores and the most AP exams passed. They had more extracurricular activities than their white counterparts. They were rated by interviewers who had met them as virtually on par with their white counterparts in their personal qualities. Yet Harvard admissions officers, many of whom had never met these applicants, scored them collectively as the worst of all groups in the one area — personality — that was subjective enough to be readily manipulable to serve Harvard’s institutional interests.

The report by the plaintiff’s expert witness, the Duke University economist Peter Arcidiacono, revealed that Harvard evaluated applicants on the extent to which they possessed the following traits: likability, helpfulness, courage, kindness, positive personality, people like to be around them, the person is widely respected. Asian-Americans, who had the highest scores in both the academic and extracurricular ratings, lagged far behind all other racial groups in the degree to which they received high ratings on the personality score.

“Asian-American applicants receive a 2 or better on the personal score more than 20% of the time only in the top academic index decile. By contrast, white applicants receive a 2 or better on the personal score more than 20% of the time in the top six deciles,” wrote Mr. Arcidiacono. “Hispanics receive such personal scores more than 20% of the time in the top seven deciles, and African Americans receive such scores more than 20% of the time in the top eight deciles.”

Even if the very worst stereotypes about Asians were true on average, it beggars belief that one could arrive at divergences as dramatic as the ones Mr. Arcidiacono documents by means of unbiased evaluation.

The Asian-American population has more than doubled over the last 20 years, yet the Asian-American share in the student populations at Harvard has remained frozen. Harvard has maintained since the 1980s, when claims of anti-Asian discrimination in Ivy League admissions first surfaced, that there is no racial bias against Asian-Americans once you control the preferences offered to athletes and alumni.

The discovery process in this case has demonstrated that this claim is no longer supportable. ...

Harvard has been here before. “To prevent a dangerous increase in the proportion of Jews, I know at present only one way, which is at the same time straightforward and effective,” wrote A. Lawrence Lowell, Harvard’s president in the 1920s, “and that is a selection by a personal estimate of character on the part of the Admission authorities, based upon the probable value to the candidate, to the College and to the community of his admissions.” The opacity of its admissions procedure could veil what Lowell’s written correspondence would later disclose to be a fully intended policy of discrimination.

The same zealously defended discretion to rank applicants on intangible personality traits would, of course, later come to the aid of blacks, Hispanics and Asians when Harvard pivoted toward an embrace of affirmative action in the 1970s. Affirmative action and the privileges of legacy and wealthy students, most of whom are white, both found shelter in the concept of “diversity” — a term that refers at once to racial diversity and the mix of people that make Harvard’s student body so varied and so disproportionately rich. Alumni preference, so crucial to the sustenance of Harvard’s $38 billion endowment, could provide cover before the courts for racial bias. Harvard’s commitment to racial diversity could whitewash its devotion to the preservation of privilege before liberal public opinion.
   157. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:33 PM (#5699431)
I'm not sure it's lost them a single vote. Name a single Trump partisan here or anywhere else that has seen this atrocity - seen them literally putting children into concentration camps - and changed their mind. Jason, Clapper, Ray... Not a waiver among them. They either agree with the evil, or don't care, which is evil in its own right.


I've said that putting children in cages was a bad policy. I'm not sure what else you want from me.

It's not clear to me that putting children in cages was worse than the alternative -- increasing human trafficking -- but that discussion could not be had with rational people.

One thing to note, that - again - was not on the table in the incredibly immature and irrational discussion that was had on this issue: The children weren't just suddenly dropped into cages from BM's lily white cul-de-sac. They were previously living in extremely poor conditions at best -- which is why their parents were sending them on the dangerous trek to begin with. There was probably not a whole lot of X-Box and air conditioning on that trek -- or before. When they arrived at the detention centers they were well taken care of -- and certainly the conditions were much better than what they were coming from. They were given food, shelter, medication... The policy was a bad one among a host of bad options but let's not pretend they were living in Beverly Hills before this.

As to why Holocaust Denier Sam hasn't acknowledged that in Auschwitz they were murdering people -- not feeding and clothing them in order to care for them until they were reunited with their families -- that is an exercise left to the reader.
   158. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:34 PM (#5699432)
You just can't stop with the irony - because I'm pretty sure a 'troth' is an archaic term for some kind of solemn pledge of fealty... though, IIRC - I have a somewhat vague recollection that the term has been more recently used in intra-aryan squabbles.
And maybe now look up what "solemn pledge of fealty" means?
   159. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:35 PM (#5699434)
The Troth.

I'll let YR decipher.

It's a big thing in alt-right circles, apparently... Temple of Set and all that.
   160. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:37 PM (#5699435)
How many misdemeanors have you committed in your life?

None.


Oh boy!

Is Juan going to give our Little Lord Fauntleray a run for his money as the most pampered, insulated, prissy fancy lad on the board? Can there really be room here for two Human Veals?
   161. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:39 PM (#5699436)
And maybe could look up what "solemn pledge of fealty" means?


I could, but I'm satisfied it's not something you dunk your head in at Wrigley Field so for purposes of this discussion - so I'll let my hazy remembrance of educations long past when I was committing misdemeanors by the bushel stand as "good enough".
   162. Morty Causa Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:42 PM (#5699439)
108

No offense, but I don't find that coherent. However, to the extent that I do understand your position to be one that is viable, all I can say is, fine, but, again, you got nothing to gripe about if the opposition feels the same way and acts as you do. It's a knife fight and there are no rules in a knife fight.
   163. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:44 PM (#5699440)
The Troth.

I'll let YR decipher.


I’m not that kind of heathen.
   164. perros Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:47 PM (#5699441)
I will spend (waste) some time posting longstanding US Latin American policy that's led to the hell holes of current Central America, foremost the School of the Americas and the creation and material support for death squads.
   165. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:48 PM (#5699442)
It's not clear to me that putting children in cages was worse than the alternative -- increasing human traffickin


Binary in, binary out.
   166. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:48 PM (#5699443)
FBI LAWYER WHO SENT ANTI-TRUMP ‘RESISTANCE’ TEXT MESSAGE INTERVIEWED GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS:
An FBI attorney who sent anti-Trump text messages — including one calling for “resistance” against Trump — took part in at least one interview last year with George Papadopoulos, the former Trump campaign adviser who has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.

The lawyer, Kevin Clinesmith, was part of the FBI team that interviewed Papadopoulos on Feb. 16, 2017, a source familiar with the interview tells TheDCNF.

North Carolina Rep. Mark Meadows first mentioned Clinesmith’s name in a congressional hearing held last week. Meadows said that Clinesmith appeared to be an FBI lawyer described as “FBI Attorney 2” in recent report from the Justice Department’s office of the inspector general (OIG) about the FBI’s handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation. (RELATED: Mark Meadows Drops Multiple Bombshells In Hearing About Clinton, Russia Probes)

While Meadows, a close President Donald Trump ally, did not explicitly say that Clinesmith was FBI Attorney 2, The Daily Mail reported that he was.

The OIG report said FBI Attorney 2 sent numerous text messages criticizing Trump. The attorney worked on the Clinton probe and was also the FBI’s lead attorney on the investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian government. He joined Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation early last year but left this February after the discovery of his anti-Trump texts.
Shocked, not shocked.
   167. perros Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:51 PM (#5699444)
Can there really be room here for two Human Veals?

Depends on your feelings about Cannibalism.
   168. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 06:56 PM (#5699445)
FBI LAWYER WHO SENT ANTI-TRUMP ‘RESISTANCE’ TEXT MESSAGE INTERVIEWED GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS:


Agent: Russianmolesayswhat?

Coffee Boy: Huh?

Agent: Close enough, book ‘em.

JUANABOUT DAT PRISSY LAD?
   169. BDC Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:10 PM (#5699447)
Aaargh, #156, the fetishizing of Harvard continues. Harvard may well and truly be messed up, and need some severe attitude adjustment. Meanwhile, moms and dads, Columbia and Penn are not safety schools in a rational universe. Better yet, send your kids to a state flagship near you, they will thank you in the long run.
   170. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:18 PM (#5699450)
No offense, but I don't find that coherent. However, to the extent that I do understand your position to be one that is viable, all I can say is, fine, but, again, you got nothing to gripe about if the opposition feels the same way and acts as you do. It's a knife fight and there are no rules in a knife fight.


I'd just say that -

You do find it coherent - you say so.... but I'm not interested in scoring semantic points.

My bigger point is that is that it's not like this was a knife fight that was agreed to be a knife fight. Five years ago - after Obama won reelection (and did so with an actual majority of the votes), while the Republicans kept the House but Democrats kept the Senate, it was pretty obvious that immigration was likely to be the last big domestic agenda the administration was going to tackle.

The 2013 compromise bill was far from liberals wanted (much less any "open borders" folks) - but the Dems dutifully whipped for it. Obama came out in favor of it.

While I guess we'll never know what the votes would have been - Senate bill as passed or the never-saw-daylight House version to be compromised, I can most certainly relay to you quotes as to why nothing happened in the House.

Namely - that John Boehner explicitly said they "don't trust Obama on enforcing the border".

Just over three years later - Obama has gone from open borders softie to the actual source of all the 'bad' visuals Trump has brought about.

Simultaneously, we've got less than 1% of illegal immigrants serving as stand-ins for the rest... we've got "infestations"... and Mexican rapists.... and shitholes... to say nothing of a guy like Iowa Republican Steve King - who is lockstep with a guy like Jason Miller - not even bothering to cloak his Neo-nazism anymore; completely ignored by the Clappers and Juannitys of the world while a sentence from the junior Senator from California ipso facto means all lefties "open borders".

I mean, I'm glad you get that we should/could bring a knife now.

I'm just saying that where was everybody 5 years ago?

It's unfortunate that this is how it has to be. Legislation is complicated. It should be. Good legislation ought to make everyone at least a little unhappy - especially in times of hyper-partisanship.

So.... now we're in a binary world where the debate means everyone has to be pushed off the fence -even if, or based on recent history, maybe especially if it means some people get pushed off the fence towards the "screw it, I'm out" neutral ground.

Chasing the moderates hasn't done a damn bit of good, so what's the point?

Might as well juice the base - and peal off the unaligned suburban soccer moms with crying children and cages.

I'm tired of continually fighting with one arm tied behind my back - where some pointless celebrity says something objectionable or whatnot and must be condemned, while the "other" side of the binary divide gets to play these (quiet) tsk-tsk/not how I'd have phrased it/whatever games except when it's convenient (which it has been - 90% of the time) while their own pointless celebrity rides the horse to the oval office.

So #### it. Let the fake news fly. Let the social media memes ring loud. Let disbanding ICE become as unremarkable when suggested as disbanding the IRS was/remains.



   171. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:26 PM (#5699452)
Shocked, not shocked.


That's obviously why both Mueller and Papadopolous' attorneys have agreed on a sentencing date.

Clearly, George's attorneys are in on the deep state coverup.
   172. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:28 PM (#5699453)
Aaargh, #156, the fetishizing of Harvard continues. Harvard may well and truly be messed up, and need some severe attitude adjustment. Meanwhile, moms and dads, Columbia and Penn are not safety schools in a rational universe. Better yet, send your kids to a state flagship near you, they will thank you in the long run.

There's nothing wrong with such sentiments, but it's still against the law for Harvard to racially discriminate in admissions. Asians are getting the Jewish Quota treatment from the Ivy League (and some of the similarly selective universities) - the evidence coming out is overwhelming, hence the current squirming.
   173. zenbitz Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5699454)
Ugh. No. Our current system already HAS a price on citizenship. I think we both know that. If you've got a large enough bank account, you can easily "buy" citizenship...


Right, so make it explicit and above board.

the problem is that - for a variety of reasons - lots of folks (including my good friend above) choose not to do so for a variety of reasons.


Why is that a problem?

I don't have a big problem with the "old" way of randomly granting asylum but I am not sure that THOSE folks path to citizenship was (or is). The problem granting illegal immigrants paths to citizenship is what metrics do you use? At least my version everyone understands - you pay directly into the system.

   174. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5699455)
That's obviously why both Mueller and Papadopolous' attorneys have agreed on a sentencing date.
Say, isn't that what you also said a while back WRT Mike Flynn? Has he been sentenced yet?
   175. Stormy JE Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:34 PM (#5699456)
There's nothing wrong with such sentiments, but it's still against the law for Harvard to racially discriminate in admissions. Asians are getting the Jewish Quota treatment from the Ivy League (and some of the similarly selective universities) - the evidence coming out is overwhelming, hence the current squirming.
When combined with De Blasio's attempt to discriminate against Asian-American students at the high-school level, it's evident that the left is increasingly giving the middle finger to the Asian-American community.
   176. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:37 PM (#5699458)
Hard hitting anti-Menendez commercial just aired on the Yankees @ Phillies broadcast, saying that Menendez thinks voters are stupid enough to vote for a crook just because he's a Democrat. Remains to be seen how effective it is, it's New Jersey, after all, but it seems like the best strategy for his opponent.
   177. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:40 PM (#5699460)
I’m not that kind of heathen.


This is why you stopped getting invitations to Trothmoot.
   178. Morty Causa Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:40 PM (#5699461)
Well, like I said, fine. Just don't complain about ### for tat if you refuse to be held to legal and political principle. (And I'm not really referring to you personally.) The great thing about being honest and forthright about where you stand and the limits or lack of limits you place on effectuating your position is that everyone, including the opposition, can predict what you are likely to do and respond accordingly. Let's hope they, too, will be honest and forthright.

Let's also hope there's daylight where a resolution that most can live with can be had. If not, sharpen the blades. From interacting with many anti-immigration types in my neck of the woods, I think they expect no quarter to be given and thus they will reciprocate. They know you don't think they count, or shouldn't count, that you loathe and despise them and they don't intend to be as docile as in the '60s and '70s. They plan to shove any result that they feel insults them up the wazoo of their enemy. Rather than always speaking of them in demonizing terms, it might behoove us to try and see how this came about. Why do they feel neglected, second-class citizens in law and politics? If your only answer is "racism", well, may God Bless You, ye merry gentlemen.

EDIT
   179. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:42 PM (#5699462)
Rather than always speaking of them in demonizing terms, it might behoove us to try and see how this came about.


How many of them are Creationists?
   180. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:42 PM (#5699463)
Better yet, send your kids to a state flagship near you, they will thank you in the long run.


Firsborn is off to UF on Thursday.
   181. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:43 PM (#5699464)
That's obviously why both Mueller and Papadopolous' attorneys have agreed on a sentencing date.


Say, isn't that what you also said a while back WRT Mike Flynn? Has he been sentenced yet?


No, it's not.

I can search the history if you want, but I'm virtually certain I said that Flynn's sentencing was being delayed because he's a cooperating witness and that Mueller wasn't finished with his cooperation yet, wherever that might be (more questions as necessary from further investigation, potentially new information that he hasn't been cooperating as honestly or completely as his plea agreement states he would, whatever).

OTOH, it's clear that by stating that they are ready to proceed to sentencing - Mueller has already gotten what he needs for the broader case from Papadopolous. What that is, exactly - I presume we'll find out this fall. Further, despite your Juannity turn - I would say that the fact that BOTH Mueller and George's attorneys are ready to proceed to sentencing means... precisely what it means.

Unless you want to argue that George's attorneys are in on a massive coverup and conspiracy... which I'm sure you will by the time he's sentenced.
   182. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:46 PM (#5699465)
Why is that a problem?


It's a problem for him. Under the current regime, one slip and he's out of here.
   183. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:47 PM (#5699466)
I can search the history if you want, but I'm virtually certain I said that Flynn's sentencing was being delayed because he's a cooperating witness and that Mueller wasn't finished with his cooperation yet, wherever that might be (more questions as necessary from further investigation, potentially new information that he hasn't been cooperating as honestly or completely as his plea agreement states he would, whatever).


Don't try to derail him with this sort of thing. Jason and his buddies over at Shapiro-land are hard at work searching down the threatening menace that is leaving beheaded animals on DHS employees porches. One suspects it's tied to the Deep State.
   184. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:49 PM (#5699467)
Rather than always speaking of them in demonizing terms, it might behoove us to try and see how this came about.


This is just another bullshit spin on "tolerating intolerance or you're just a fake Modern Libtard." How it came about is they've believed and acted this way THEIR ENTIRE LIVES, and the lives of their forefathers before them, but they've lost the status of "at least we're better than the niggers" that kept them molified in previous generations.
   185. Morty Causa Posted: June 25, 2018 at 07:57 PM (#5699471)
184

Well, last time a political party came down hard on them, they left the party in wholesale numbres. And characterizing them as deplorables in the last election didn't go over well. But, as they say, YMMV.

We just might get to see if you're really John Wayne swaggering through the saloon swinging doors, or Barney Fife fumbling for his bullet. I'd pay to see that.
   186. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:00 PM (#5699473)
Well, last time a political party came down hard on them, they left the party in wholesale numbres.


The purpose is not to find them a comfortable political party to reside in, either as the leadership (GOP now) or the core base driving the spineless whores who are milking them for power (the GOP 1960ish-until 2012.) (You may draw this back into the Dem years if you like, but I'm comfortable stopping with the last half century of the GOP giving them care and feeding.)

The purpose is to remove them from the equation. One once believed they could be educated and redeemed. One admits when he was previously wrong.
   187. Morty Causa Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:07 PM (#5699476)
186

Yep, that's your purpose, and they know it. And they think that's what your type has being doing for going on 60 years. And their purpose is similarly the same. If those are the only two possible political postures to take, fasten your seatbelts, for we're in for a rocky night (to quote Bette Von Bismarck). Take no prisoners attitude is exhilarating, especially if your poke isn't in the game.
   188. perros Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:16 PM (#5699480)
They plan to shove any result that they feel insults them up the wazoo of their enemy.


Are you ready to be ######, man?
   189. Srul Itza Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:17 PM (#5699481)
the fetishizing of Harvard


Ah yes, the big money school up the road from us.

Never forget the shock when we found out that Harveys do problem sets. Whoulda thunk?
   190. Morty Causa Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:21 PM (#5699483)
188:

And many are indeed vets.
   191. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:21 PM (#5699484)
Well, like I said, fine. Just don't complain about ### for tat if you refuse to be held to legal and political principle. (And I'm not really referring to you personally.) The great thing about being honest and forthright about where you stand and the limits or lack of limits you place on effectuating your position is that everyone, including the opposition, can predict what you are likely to do and respond accordingly. Let's hope they, too, will be honest and forthright. Let's hope there's daylight where a resolution that most can live with can be had. If not sharpen the blades. From interacting with many anti-immigration types in my neck of the woods, I think they expect no less. They know you don't think they count, or shouldn't count, that you loathe and despise them and they don't intend to be as docile as in the '60s and '70s. They plan to shove any result that they feel insults them up the wazoo of their enemy. Rather than always speaking of them in demonizing terms, it might behoove us to try and see how this came about. Why do they feel neglected, second-class citizens in law and politics? If your only answer is "racism", well, may God Bless You, ye merry gentlemen.


So... the reality of the last 10 years. Except finally now, "we" (royal we) get it.

But make no mistake - I know how it came about. It came about in the precisely the same way every snake oil peddler in every corner of the earth and in every moment of history brought it about. "You" (royal you) are having a rough go of it because this statistically insignificant group is ####### you over. They're stealing what you have, jumping ahead of you for what you want, and bringing weird and different foods, prayers, words, art, whatever to boot.

That's how it has always come about. Only the name of the infestation has changed. I'd say that it's oddly comforting that such is timeless and global, but the truth is that it's not.

So - I understand how it came about.

Go ahead - call it elitism and say that I'm just proving your point. I'm really not. In point of fact, I honestly and truly have the exact same amount of economic sympathy for a poor tar shack white man on the bayou as I do for a black single mother in the hood. I'll confess that I don't have perfect solutions for them. I wish I did. What I have - and will continue to, regardless - supported is everything from providing healthcare via significant subsidization of all types, education, job training, drug treatment, muscular and expansive social programs, etc.

Spiking though they have, this is a country of 330,000,000 people. That adds up to a population density that ranks 177th in the world. In the same country with far and away the largest economy in the world.

Sorry not sorry, but I'm just not interested in a point-by-point, study-by-study refutation of why less than a fraction of a percent of that are responsible for the 'all the bad things'.

The record is old, tired, and boring. It's no different than the Tutsis, the Jews, the Chinese, the Irish, the Shiites, the Mormons, the Christians, the Polish, the Armenians, you name it.


   192. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:25 PM (#5699485)
Yep, that's your purpose, and they know it. And they think that's what your type has being doing for going on 60 years. And their purpose is similarly the same. If those are the only two possible political postures to take, fasten your seatbelts, for we're in for a rocky night (to quote Bette Von Bismarck). Take no prisoners attitude is exhilarating, especially if your poke isn't in the game.


If history is any kind of guide, it tells us two things:

1) Yes, probably better to just get it on sooner rather than later. Probably spares everyone less bloodshed in the long run.

2) Best not to be the on the side led by the guy who actually uses words like "infestation".

So... not the way I'd prefer it, but life has a funny way of making choices for us all.
   193. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:28 PM (#5699488)
What's wrong, Mouse? Are you really unaware of what's taking place only a few feet outside your lily-white cul-de-sac?


Wait, so now the words one wears matter? Where were you when Melania wore her "I don't care. Do U?" jacket? Or does the message on wears only matter when it is a Democrat and you are desperate for a gotcha?

Shorter version: <yawn>
   194. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:30 PM (#5699490)
With [apparently] but one day remaining in the Supreme Court's current term, we've had 20 different voting combinations. Still 4 cases to go, but I assume those who contend they can predict the Justices votes by the party of the appointing president will again wait until after the decisions are announced to reveal which of the results were entirely predictable.
   195. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:32 PM (#5699493)
Go ahead - call it elitism and say that I'm just proving your point. I'm really not. In point of fact, I honestly and truly have the exact same amount of economic sympathy for a poor tar shack white man on the bayou as I do for a black single mother in the hood. I'll confess that I don't have perfect solutions for them. I wish I did. What I have - and will continue to, regardless - supported is everything from providing healthcare via significant subsidization of all types, education, job training, drug treatment, muscular and expansive social programs, etc.

One thing's for sure: If those poor tar shack white men from the bayou realized that the black single mother in the hood and the brown family trying to escape gang warfare back home aren't their blood enemies, those poor tar shack white men might find they have a lot more time and energy to concentrate on their real problems.
   196. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:37 PM (#5699496)
The Jews!
   197. Morty Causa Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:37 PM (#5699497)
191

The record is old, tired, and boring. It's no different than the Tutsis, the Jews, the Chinese, the Irish, the Shiites, the Mormons, the Christians, the Polish, the Armenians, you name it.

That's right. It is no different, and those people feel no different than the White Rednecks y'all hallucinate about. That feeling is ubiquitous.

That's an existential predicament, and by that I mean, a condition of existing in groups and societies.

And there is no way around it except through egalitarian processes that everyone, or most everyone, will feel that they have serious input and is objectively fair and just. Otherwise, it's the same old same old.

And just simply riding that same old racist horse and insisting a different guy sit in the saddle isn't the solution. That ain't cutting it. Although finding someone or some group to righteously victimize is pleasurable. But, like a shot of whiskey to an alcoholic, it only gives a temporary surcease. The problem is still there.
   198. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:37 PM (#5699498)
Man Morty really does endlessly apologize for racists, doesn't he? Weird. Dude those folks you are busy defending might have had their feelings hurt. Guess what? You are hurting my feelings. Boo hoo.

Now, according to you, you are supposed to surrender to my hurt feelings. Except of course I am adult who has long since gotten over the fact that you and yours look down on me for a whole host of reasons. Adults do that, they don't wallow in their petty grievances.

If your big hammer is "Gee you guys hurt some feelings of some losers", then you need a bigger and better hammer, because those losers are still nursing grudges from high school and will be until the day they die. Fuck them.

Politics ain't beanbag. Plenty of people get their feelings hurt and yet they don't act like a bunch of brats like your pet deplorables you are so busy defending.

Oh no! Another person who was never going to vote for anyone or anything I support is now upset I said mean things about them and will still never vote for anyone or anything I support. Even if it hurts their own self interest. Sounds like their problem.
   199. Morty Causa Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:43 PM (#5699501)
Last I heard, those people were citizens and could vote. Are y'all thinking of a way to do away with that, or neutralize the effect of any power they could exert? Hmm. Yeah, I think y'all are doing that. That's what was done in the '60s and '70s and we're paying for it still. Those types you abhor work and even buy stuff, have kids they care for and send to school (but I guess you could separate their kids from them and place them in detention centers) just like other people.
   200. perros Posted: June 25, 2018 at 08:47 PM (#5699503)
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