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Monday, June 04, 2018

OTP 2018 June 4: How Dr. Alan Nathan Became Baseball Fans’ Favorite Physicist

Nathan said he expected to simply read the book and share on what he learned, and that would be that. But thanks to a local reporter who heard his initial talk and interviewed him about it for the Sunday paper, Nathan is still sharing what he’s learning almost two decades later. Not long after that initial talk, Nathan had a sabbatical from the University of Illinois, so he decided to spend it studying the physics of baseball more closely. He almost immediately found a fascinating rabbit hole of study that helped change a long-held perception in baseball.

“Grip on the bat, while the ball and bat are in contact with each other, plays no role whatsoever in the collision itself. And that pretty much goes against what you might call conventional wisdom,” Nathan said.

“Not scientific wisdom, but baseball wisdom,” he adds, elaborating that at the moment when the ball strikes the bat, the hitter’s grip doesn’t matter at all. In fact, he could even let go of the bat altogether—at that point of contact—and it would not change how the ball was hit.

 

But what does this have to do with politics?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 04, 2018 at 07:48 AM | 1535 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, physics, politics, witch-hunt, wizards

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   1. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5685505)
Trump sucks.
   2. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5685518)
He's fat.
   3. Swoboda is freedom Posted: June 04, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5685527)
What, no comments on his skin and hair?
   4. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5685531)
Well now you broke the chain.
   5. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5685539)
Were the cases referred to in #1243 1A cases?

In Barnes, just being nude wasn't expressive, but the plurality opinion conceded that the nude dancing chosen was expressive (though said it was only marginally over the line). They ruled against the strip club in that states can regulate nudity itself.

Stromberg was more direct. This was the law California had passed.


Any person who displays a red flag, banner or badge or any flag, badge, banner, or device of any color or form whatever in any public place or in any meeting place or public assembly, or from or on any house, building or window as a sign, symbol or emblem of opposition to organized government or as an invitation or stimulus to anarchistic action or as an aid to propaganda that is of a seditious character is guilty of a felony.


The court ruled 7-2 for Stromberg. The dissents were mostly based on procedural issues.

DMN or one of the other lawyers can correct me if I'm mistaken. I am not a lawyer.
   6. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 04, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5685547)
He's fat.

But Melania's phat. Assuming she's still alive.
   7. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5685553)
The court ruled 7-2 for Stromberg.
Thankfully, James Bond didn't give a damn about the thoughts of seven justices and shot Stromberg in the balls.
   8. BDC Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5685559)
Any person who displays a red flag, banner or badge or any flag, badge, banner, or device of any color or form whatever in any public place or in any meeting place or public assembly

If only they'd thought to include red hats.
   9. DavidFoss Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5685569)
If only they'd thought to include red hats.

You don't want to go up against the linux lobby.

... or senior women for that matter.
   10. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5685570)
From the previous thread:

No, I must disagree with Jason; you're being characteristically simple-minded. Primaries are contests between candidates for the nomination; they are not "intraparty battles."

I'm not sure how else you'd describe an ideological battle within the the set of Democratic voters, but nitpick away.

Well, I wouldn't describe a contest between Hillary and Biden as an ideological battle at all.


I'm not sure what planet you were visiting during those Democratic primaries, but I can think of about 12,029,699 Sanders voters who might have objected to being presented with a narrow choice like that, and who wouldn't have simply shrugged their shoulders when presented with it.

And I would describe a primary as two different candidates vying for a nomination.

That's like saying that the choice between Obama and Hillary was seen merely as a choice between a man and a woman, or between a black person and a white person. Things aren't always that simple. And of course the Democratic primary of 2016 was presented by one of the two major candidates (Sanders) as representing purely an ideological choice, even if at the end Hillary adapted many of Bernie's ideas.
   11. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5685575)
Just here to repost David's correctness:

Ah I was mixing my examples (re CA politics) . You are correct here. Zoning regulations and nimbyism is not capitalism. But it is the result of upper middle class democracy.

What I was (badly) trying to imply was that the democratic power of the UMC in California is directly attributable to accumulated capital.



Also, Prop13 was more related to the disparity in education spending (another part of original "California is most racist" Forbes (?!?!?) article). Although an interesting point was raised by traderdave on it's effect on housing.

For some content - does anyone (David) really think that a free housing market would "correct" prices in Manhattan and SF? The _stated_ problem* is that the COL is too high for poor people to live in the city. While relaxing building restrictions *would* increase supply, why would Developers increase supply to point where you could rent a 2 BR apartment for $800/month? That just crushes their profits. It's not like building low-rent housing is CHEAPER.

The amount of real estate is fixed.

* I realize that some of you don't acknowledge this is a real problem, and I actually respect that opinion, but play along with the hypothetical, please.
   12. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5685577)
As Giuliani takes the Constitutional theory known as Trumpism to its logical conclusion:

Giuliani: Under constitution, Trump could shoot Comey and not be indicted
President Trump’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani reportedly said Sunday that Trump could shoot former FBI director James B. Comey in the Oval Office and still not be indicted for it while still serving as president.
   13. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5685583)
My parents were very anti Prop 13, and would be again today, despite the fact that my mom lives in a $800k-$1MM home (depending on when and where you look) that they purchased for $27k in 1969


Are we related?

(she still owes a not insignificant amount because they borrowed against the house to pay for our college and make some home improvements, but there's plenty of equity).


Oh, no, not really. My grandparents paid for our college pretty much. Privilege for the win! Also her house is worth closer to $2M.

But in general - yes - at least in the Bay Area Prop 13 + Prop 58 just creates a hereditary landed gentry.
   14. Lassus Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5685584)
It's not like building low-rent housing is CHEAPER.

This doesn't seem to make sense. Don't people with more money expect bigger, better places to live than people with less money? The latter are certainly cheaper to build for.
   15. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5685586)
Some reading the Supreme Court tea leaves are suggesting that since Justice Kennedy wrote the Hughes decision issued today, he probably isn't writing the decision in any other cases from the March sitting, including Benisk, the Maryland redistricting case.
   16. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5685587)
President Trump’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani reportedly said Sunday that Trump could shoot former FBI director James B. Comey in the Oval Office and still not be indicted for it while still serving as president.


Dude must make you Trumpkins so proud.

Even Hitler at least created a pretext when he murdered his political opponents - he didn't send his lawyer out to say he could just do it because he's the fuhrer.
   17. DavidFoss Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5685588)
But in general - yes - at least in the Bay Area Prop 13 + Prop 58 just creates a hereditary landed gentry.

Yes. And if you get a job on the other side of town, you don't even consider moving closer to your job. You clog up the interstate instead.
   18. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5685589)
Also, Prop13 was more related to the disparity in education spending (another part of original "California is most racist" Forbes (?!?!?) article). Although an interesting point was raised by traderdave on it's effect on housing.

For some content - does anyone (David) really think that a free housing market would "correct" prices in Manhattan and SF? The _stated_ problem* is that the COL is too high for poor people to live in the city. While relaxing building restrictions *would* increase supply, why would Developers increase supply to point where you could rent a 2 BR apartment for $800/month? That just crushes their profits. It's not like building low-rent housing is CHEAPER.

The amount of real estate is fixed.

* I realize that some of you don't acknowledge this is a real problem, and I actually respect that opinion, but play along with the hypothetical, please.


Well, the amount of real estate is not fixed. You can go up and you can out to sea (WTC for example). NYC is pretty darn gigantic and there is plenty of areas that could see significant increase in housing should one want to do that. But the issue of course is that a lot of people want to live in NYC right now. So if you build 300,000 new units you'll likely get 300,000 new residents to NYC rather than having a family of 5 live in a comfortable unit at a lower rent. But at the very least more new units will do a few things. It will cap rents to a degree as there will be competition for renters, it will force older units to renovate or redevelop in order to charge premiums and to fill their units, and or it will stall rents or even drop them in units that do not keep pace which will lead to units being sold off to people who would likely renovate or redevelop to make a profit on their investment. Or of course they could go the slumlord route on them. Now then redeveloping and renovating puts money into blue collar pockets and putting 1000 units into a depressed area that previously had 400 units is going to be generally good the people and economy of NYC.
   19. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5685591)
Oh that was the COLORADO cake decision, not the Oregon one. Very confused.

In related (??) news, I was doing genealogy research last night for a family (name) reunion this summer and learned that I have a cousin (Henry Hitz Burton) who served on the SCOTUS from 1945 to 1958. He "helped shape the opinion" (thanks Wikipedia) on Brown vs BoE (which as we all know, overturned Plessy). He was also Mayor of Cleveland and a 1 term senator from Ohio.

   20. BDC Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5685592)
strong silence, #1125 in the last OTP thread:

I'm liberal and I'd like to see an end to teachers unions

There are a few states where collective bargaining with teachers' unions is illegal, Texas being one. (Collective bargaining for nearly all public employees is illegal here.)

But such states tend to have civil-service (or similar) protections, and (in the case of teachers) tenure systems, which accomplish many of the same structural goals as unions would.

I guess my question is: should schools be run more like businesses, without tenure, without civil-service systems? Is that the effective wish behind wishing an end to unions?

I tend to think that schools would become chaotic without strong protections for teachers. If you think schools are a mess now, you might be amazed at them without such protections. But then I would think that, wouldn't I, so I'm really just throwing the question open to all sides to see if there are aspects I'm missing.
   21. Swoboda is freedom Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5685593)
If only they'd thought to include red hats.

You don't want to go up against the linux lobby.


or Devo.
   22. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5685594)
This doesn't seem to make sense. Don't people with more money expect bigger, better places to live than people with less money? The latter are certainly cheaper to build for.

The dollars are less on lower end units. You can sell a unit for a million dollars and make 200k in profit or you can sell 200k unit and make 40k. I know which way most people would go. But the thing of it is is even the margins are greater on higher end units. There is just more money to be made building for those who can afford it. It's another bubble.
   23. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5685595)
Trump could shoot former FBI director James B. Comey in the Oval Office and still not be indicted for it while still serving as president.
Better to stage it during sweeps week on Fifth Avenue, then he wouldn't even lose any votes!

At this point, is Rudy anything other than a batshit crazy man spouting the batshit crazy, in order to further normalize the everyday crazy that is the Trump Show? It would be genius, if, you know, it weren't undermining our entire political system and edging us towards authoritarianism.

   24. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:27 PM (#5685596)
This doesn't seem to make sense. Don't people with more money expect bigger, better places to live than people with less money? The latter are certainly cheaper to build for.


What I meant to say it's a matter of profit margins. The value of any property in a city like SF is mostly the space itself.
   25. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5685598)
It would be genius, if, you know, it weren't undermining our entire political system and edging us towards authoritarianism.


From the link:

As tyrants take control of democracies, they typically:

1. Exaggerate their mandate to govern – claiming, for example, that they won an election by a landslide even after losing the popular vote.

2. Repeatedly claim massive voter fraud in the absence of any evidence, in order to restrict voting in subsequent elections.

3. Call anyone who opposes them “enemies.”

4. Turn the public against journalists or media outlets that criticize them, calling them “deceitful” and “scum.”

5. Hold few if any press conferences, preferring to communicate with the public directly through mass rallies and unfiltered statements.

6. Tell the public big lies, causing them to doubt the truth and to believe fictions that support the tyrants’ goals.

7. Blame economic stresses on immigrants or racial or religious minorities, and foment public bias and even violence against them.

8. Attribute acts of domestic violence to “enemies within,” and use such events as excuses to beef up internal security and limit civil liberties.

9. Threaten mass deportations, registries of religious minorities, and the banning of refugees.

10. Seek to eliminate or reduce the influence of competing centers of power, such as labor unions and opposition parties.

11. Appoint family members to high positions of authority

12. Surround themselves with their own personal security force rather than a security detail accountable to the public.

13. Put generals into top civilian posts

14. Make personal alliances with foreign dictators.

15. Draw no distinction between personal property and public property, profiteering from their public office.

Consider yourself warned.


You are either defending America, or you are Vichy scum at best. And the best thing you can do with a Vichy is bleed them dry.
   26. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5685600)
If you think schools are a mess now, you might be amazed at them without such protections. But then I would think that, wouldn't I, so I'm really just throwing the question open to all sides to see if there are aspects I'm missing.


I think the issue is that teachers are paid nothing so you get a split between youthful ideologues and ne're do-wells applying for jobs. If the job paid competitively, you could compete with other white collar or engineering professions.
   27. strong silence Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5685602)
Sincere religious beliefs often are also ignorant, uninformed, and backward. People of religion need to be better educated about the origins and historical contexts of their foundational documents. The bakers are one such party.

Ishmael?
   28. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5685604)
You can go up and you can out to sea (WTC for example)


For sure, but this is more expensive to build I think. But then you also have a public transit problem. My current thought (for SF) is that you could just build another layer at story 3 - new streets new parking etc But I have a feeling the voters won't go to that

   29. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5685605)
I think the issue is that teachers are paid nothing so you get a split between youthful ideologues and ne're do-wells applying for jobs. If the job paid competitively, you could compete with other white collar or engineering professions.

I don't know. It takes a special kind of person who is willing to work with kids as their career. I don't think the lawyer, stockbrokers, and doctors would opt to become elementary or high school teachers if those jobs paid more.
   30. Traderdave Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5685606)
edit
   31. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5685608)
Is Capitalism ever a bad thing, or ever the driving force behind anything bad?

Libertarians on government power

Libertarians on corporate power
Libertarians don't believe in the existence of "corporate power" in the way leftists seem to use the term.
   32. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5685613)
Libertarians don't believe in the existence of "corporate power"


That's the point, son. You guys are more or less morons when it comes to any form of power other than "ebil gubmnt."
   33. Traderdave Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5685615)
I think the issue is that teachers are paid nothing so you get a split between youthful ideologues and ne're do-wells applying for jobs. If the job paid competitively, you could compete with other white collar or engineering professions.



I don't know. It takes a special kind of person who is willing to work with kids as their career. I don't think the lawyer, stockbrokers, and doctors would opt to become elementary or high school teachers if those jobs paid more.


I'd say the truth is in the middle. A fair number of the law/stock/doc people I know would choose a different profession if it paid better. A fair number have told me they'd be teachers if it the pay were several fold higher, and while these moments were mostly just chatter over beers, I think most of them truly meant it.
   34. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5685617)
Sincere religious beliefs often are also ignorant, uninformed, and backward. People of who religion need to be better educated about the origins and historical contexts of their foundational documents.
Truly thoughtful religious adherents welcome the idea of questioning their faith by comparing ideologies. The masses don't, and (at the risk of oversimplifying) the Deplorable wing of society are historically the most strident at defending positions they have never questioned and generally don't understand.

The truly dangerous are those that exploit the latter for nefarious purposes. Like... Trump.
   35. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5685618)
A fair number have told me they'd be teachers if it the pay were several fold higher, and while these moments were mostly just chatter over beers, I think most of them truly meant it.

Until they had to do it. Dreams are always nice but reality tends to be what you see in your nightmares.
   36. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:50 PM (#5685620)
other big political news: POTUS says he can pardon himself.

The actual Giuliani remarks:
“He probably does,” Giuliani said, when asked on ABC’s “This Week” if Trump has the ability to pardon himself. “He has no intention of pardoning himself, but he probably — not to say he can’t.”
. . .
But while arguing that the president has the theoretical ability to pardon himself, Giuliani and other Trump allies on Sunday nonetheless rejected the reality of such a brash move — in part because of the political backlash they said could lead to Trump’s impeachment.

On NBC’s “Meet the Press,” for instance, Giuliani framed the pardon question as purely hypothetical and politically implausible. “It’s not going to happen. It’s a hypothetical point,” he told host Chuck Todd. He went on to describe such a move as “unthinkable,” and said it would probably lead immediately to impeachment.
   37. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5685625)
But then of course there is Trump's actual remarks. You know, since the post makes the statement that POTUS says he can pardon himself not Guiliani.
   38. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5685627)
But while arguing that the president has the theoretical ability to pardon himself, Giuliani and other Trump allies on Sunday nonetheless rejected the reality of such a brash move — in part because of the political backlash they said could lead to Trump’s impeachment.


Claiming unrestricted authority for Dear Leader but couching it in "but he's benevolent" is precisely what fascists do. Which you know. Because it's why you support them. The world will be better at your death.
   39. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5685628)
other big political news: POTUS says he can pardon himself.

The actual Giuliani remarks...
In case Clapper missed it, the actual POTUS tweet:
As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself
Where's that authoritarian checklist again? Yeah, yeah, and Cokes.
   40. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:59 PM (#5685630)
Until they had to do it.


Right. They're thinking "if I could get my pay, but then have summers free like those lazy teachers, man!" They have no idea what the job actually entails.
   41. strong silence Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:02 PM (#5685631)
20. BDC.
I'm for reforms to end protections for bad teachers.

I knew of a teacher who, two years in a row, attended class the first day then claimed (sick or admin) leave the next day which continued for the rest of the school year. She taught the first day of each year but nothing more. When I got to class, as a sub, in November I was the 11th substitute and I saw firsthand the chaos. Ultimately, the kids were pawns and I felt sorry for them.

These abuses need to end.

I haven't followed much education news lately. I wonder what happened to the D.C. School supervisor, Michele Rhee, who wanted reforms in exchange for market-rate salaries. IIRC, teachers wanted lower salaries in exchange for tenure and she was forced to leave.

http://www.governing.com/topics/education/gov-michelle-rhee-versus-diane-ravitch.html

29. McCoy. I'm one of those. I initially thought I could be a good teacher, and I cared about kids. I tried it with only a small amount of success but ultimately decided I didn't need the hassles of launching a new career and decided to return to my white collar job. No amount of money would have caused me to stay.


   42. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5685635)
Gay cake ruling is 7-2:
Roberts, Breyer, Alito, Kagan, and Gorsuch join Kennedy's opinion; Kagan concurs, joined by Breyer; Gorsuch concurs, joined by Alito. Thomas concurs in part and in the judgment. Ginsburg and Sotomayor dissent.

SCOTUSblog hot take makes it sound like the Court kicked the can:
They did. I've had a chance to read the opinion now, and it's on the most narrow ground possible, in order to secure a 7-2 ruling. They didn't decide that the bakers have a free speech right not to bake the cake, nor did they even decide (contrary to reporting) that the bakers have a free exercise right not to bake the cake. (They didn't decide to the contrary, either.) They ruled rather that the state's decision violated the bakers' free exercise rights because the state's decision was infected by anti-religious animus.

There probably would have been five votes for a broader ruling, but they punted. (Maybe there weren't.) They -- especially Roberts, not so much Thomas or Gorsuch -- like to issue as narrow rulings as possible. The problem is that this decision is useless to anyone other than these specific bakers, since it's unlikely that this specific fact pattern will arise again.
   43. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5685636)
It has been my experience that the continued abuse of any system happens because the people responsible for maintaining the system are failing at at least part of their job. The issue is that most people don't want to put the effort in to actually doing their job and or causing or being in conflict. This teacher sucks and isn't doing their job? Does doing nothing about it risk my job, advancement, or pay? No? Then I don't really care. That's the mindsight for the most part with most people who are there to make sure this kind of stuff doesn't happen.
   44. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5685637)
Whatever procedural grounds cited, the decision explicitly upholds bigotry. I'm not particularly interested in thinly veiled justifications for bigotry, so I'll save that effort.
That's incorrect as a factual matter -- that's not what the decision says -- and in any case bigotry is constitutionally protected anyway. (Discrimination may or may not be depending on the facts, but bigotry is.)

Plus, this is just dumb:
Cake & Hobby Lobby cases will be remembered as the Plessy/Ferguson of our time.
Even if one misinterpreted Masterpiece Cake as you do, Hobby Lobby has nothing to do with discrimination.
   45. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5685640)
Where's that authoritarian checklist again? Yeah, yeah, and Cokes.
Snore. Ever hear of impeachment?
   46. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5685642)

Again, Plessy was 7-1. Does a lopsided score make it right?
The issue wasn't merely that it was 7-2. The issue is that it picked up 7 votes on a court that obviously is not Plessyesqe, given that this is the same court that recently decided that the right to gay marriage is in the constitution.
I'm not a legal scholar, I'm just an ordinary believer in equality, fairness, and other such lefty notions.
I notice that you fail to mention liberty.
   47. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5685644)
A fair number have told me they'd be teachers if it the pay were several fold higher, and while these moments were mostly just chatter over beers, I think most of them truly meant it.

Until they had to do it. Dreams are always nice but reality tends to be what you see in your nightmares.


I actually taught high school for two months after I finished my undergrad degree and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I was there as a long-term substitute for a biology teacher who was on maternity leave but at the end of the semester I was offered a new full-time contract for the following year. I knew I'd be going to grad school and my general career ambitions wouldn't have been served by continuing to teach high school, but I can also say with complete certainty that the low pay and general lack of respect the position receives in American culture precluded me even considering a return.
   48. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5685646)
Just not in free exercise of religion or freedom of speech, the latter of which used to be a notion more protected by lefties than it currently is.

So should Lester Maddox have been allowed to exclude blacks from his chicken shack?
Yes.
The Colorado ruling IN NO WAY curtailed the baker's exercise of religion. It curtailed his ability to discriminate in a public accomodation based on said superstition.
The problem is, people on the left have mistakenly conceived of the exercise of religion in recent decades as the right to hold religious beliefs, or at most the right to express religious views. But that's a narrow, mostly empty understanding of religious exercise. It's one thing to say that a particular act of religious exercise is beyond the pale; it's another to claim that it isn't religious exercise at all.
   49. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5685647)
I knew I'd be going to grad school and my general career ambitions wouldn't have been served by continuing to teach high school, but I can also say with complete certainty that the low pay and general lack of respect the position receives in American culture precluded me even considering a return.


There should at least be a small market for early retirement professionals with real world experience picking up at least sub teaching slots around the country. But that never, ever happens.
   50. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5685650)

It really wasn't that narrow. The primary reasoning was what I noted a bunch of times before -- that if administrative bodies say someone has to create a special cake for a gay wedding, it would mean that secular objectors would have to create them for things like KKK events. The Commission had already let three secular objectors not bake cakes and so it was effectively doomed when it said the religious guy had to bake. Hard to see how that Humpty Dumpty is going to be put back together.
FL is FLing.

That's not the primary reasoning. That's not the court's reasoning at all, though Gorsuch and Thomas did endorse it.
   51. Traderdave Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5685651)
Thanks, DMN, I was starting to worry you weren't going to grace my posts with your red pen. If you have a moment, do you mind going pedant on my earlier Prop 13 post also?


   52. Greg K Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5685655)
As a data point, a friend of mine who teaches elementary school in Canada just married a guy from the US. They were contemplating where to live, Canada or the US and they eventually landed on Canada. He can do his job in either country, but after spending a while researching teaching jobs in the US she said, no thanks.

Now I don't know the details of her research, but the popular perception up here is that it is better to be a teacher in Canada than the US.
   53. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5685656)
No, it is a cliché. One pretty well undermined by the 2016 election, when the same silly idea that women voters were desperate for a woman candidate was not reflected in the vote.

Eppur si muove towards her. Hillary Clinton's margin over Trump among female voters was larger than Obama's over Romney.
Really? That's what you're going with? First, it's not even accurate -- quoting Pew:
Women supported Clinton over Trump by 54% to 42%. This is about the same as the Democratic advantage among women in 2012 (55% Obama vs. 44% Romney) and 2008 (56% Obama vs. 43% McCain).
-- since these are surveys, there are margins of error, and you can't draw any firm conclusions from 1% swings. Second, even if it is accurate, it rather supports my argument that women voters were not desperate for a woman candidate. Instead, women voted how they always do.
   54. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:25 PM (#5685657)
Libertarians don't believe in the existence of "corporate power" in the way leftists seem to use the term.

Yes, we already know that Libertarians form their beliefs on the basis of religious ideology, rather than arriving at them through reasoned thought.

You are like the Christian fundamentalists who deny the existence of evolution.
   55. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:25 PM (#5685658)
The Supreme Court issued 3 other opinions today: a bankruptcy case & 2 dealing with the sentencing guidelines. Relatively small potatoes.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. The Court held unanimously in the Lamar case, that people who try to avoid paying their attorneys are pond scum who deserve a period in the pillory. Or at least a finding of 523 non-dischargablity. For the very small number of posters here who aren't lawyers, beware!
Wait, what? They held that people are free to avoid paying their attorneys; they ruled for the debtor.
   56. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5685664)
“Do you really want to know what I think about those jerks? I think they’re a waste of time. They’re guys who can’t get a real job, ethics watchdog? Who gets a job — ethics watchdog? Give me a break.”

— Charles Kushner, in an interview with The Real Deal, about his son’s ethics problems in the White House.
   57. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5685668)
Behind closed doors: Republicans worry tax reform won't save GOP

One of their guest speakers was the well-respected election forecaster Charlie Cook, who founded the non-partisan "Cook Political Report." According to sources in the room, Cook gave the Republican staffers a bleak view of the midterms. He said he was deeply skeptical that simply touting the economic wonders of tax reform would be enough to save the House.

Cook confirmed this to me via email: "I told the group that the tax cut did help among Republican voters, but helped only a little and temporarily among independents and did nothing with Democratic voters.”

"The essence of what I said was that if they were going to rely primarily on the tax cuts to hang onto their majority, they were unlikely to succeed.”

"Even with the uptick in President Trump’s numbers and in the generic ballot test, I still think it is pretty uphill for them to hang onto their House majority. I use the metaphor of a Democratic tidal wave up against a Republican sea wall. In the House, the wave looks taller and stronger than the wall, in the Senate, the wall looks taller than the wave."


I said it before and I will say it again, it is going to be an interesting election, with a variety of signposts for the upcoming election pointing in different directions. Personally I think the GOP's best hope is Trump stays semi-mostly-on-message and the economy keeps chugging along (despite the looming trade war) and then they hope. We shall see.
   58. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5685669)
On the other hand this is something I suspect most in the GOP hope doesn't happen ... Bannon predicts government shutdown over border wall

"I believe the government will actually shut down in the run-up to the election," Bannon told CNN's Fareed Zakaria, referring to the midterm elections in November.
What could trigger it, according to Bannon, is a fight over the southern border wall.

"The wall is not just totemic," Bannon said. "The wall is absolutely central to his program."
President Donald Trump's proposed border wall was perhaps the biggest policy platform during his campaign for the presidency, but it has yet to materialize.


It might fire up the base a little, maybe, but IMO is much more likely to rev up the other side.
   59. dlf Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5685673)
Wait, what?


Crap. Read the synopsis too quickly. Mea culpa.
   60. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:41 PM (#5685674)
Libertarians don't believe in the existence of "corporate power" in the way leftists seem to use the term.


Republicans don't believe in the existence of "evolution" in the way scientists seem to use the term. Humperdido!
   61. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5685677)

For some content - does anyone (David) really think that a free housing market would "correct" prices in Manhattan and SF? The _stated_ problem* is that the COL is too high for poor people to live in the city. While relaxing building restrictions *would* increase supply, why would Developers increase supply to point where you could rent a 2 BR apartment for $800/month? That just crushes their profits. It's not like building low-rent housing is CHEAPER.

The amount of real estate is fixed.
It isn't fixed! You can build more densely on the same amount of land, if government allows it. That's one of the big issues in San Francisco. You can also do landfill and build on that, if the government allows it. (Some places only, obviously.)
   62. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5685680)

The dollars are less on lower end units. You can sell a unit for a million dollars and make 200k in profit or you can sell 200k unit and make 40k. I know which way most people would go. But the thing of it is is even the margins are greater on higher end units. There is just more money to be made building for those who can afford it. It's another bubble.
There's a bigger margin on Lexuses than on Honda Civics, one assumes. That doesn't mean that it's difficult to find people willing to manufacture the latter.
   63. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5685681)
It isn't fixed!


Correct. However, it is not liberalism that is limiting the new real estate in California (nor is it conservatism). Everything in the world is not tied up in the liberal/conservative dichotomy.

The reason is of course NIMBYism and all the other associated ills of being human. Much as both sides would love to paint them as either a conservative or liberal problem it is not.
   64. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5685682)
NEWS ALERT: GLEYBER GOES DEEP, SQUARES IT AT 1-1
   65. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5685683)
There should at least be a small market for early retirement professionals with real world experience picking up at least sub teaching slots around the country. But that never, ever happens.


It happens at least a bit in my experience. It's more common that they pick up a few courses at the local community college and have better hours. Substitute work has you covering a territory so you don't really know from day-to-day where you'll be unless you get a long-term contract like I had.
   66. -- Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5685685)
That's not the primary reasoning. That's not the court's reasoning at all,


Yeah, it is.

Which is the primary reason Kagan and Breyer took pains to address it head on -- indeed, it was the only majority opinion argument they addressed -- and note that the cases could have been distinguished from each other.

Like much of the "legal terminology" I use comfortably and based on experience rather than googling (*), this also apparently flew over your head. Not exactly a shock.

(*) In much the same way that the term "real property" flew over Mouse's.
   67. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5685686)
Where's that authoritarian checklist again?

Snore. Ever hear of impeachment?
You're really surprising me lately, Jason. Yes, to take your unnecessarily flippant remark seriously, I have heard of impeachment. In today's environment it's extremely unlikely. The GOP would never do it, and the Democrats doing it would be a disaster absent clear documentation of Trump actually committing crimes.

The problem is, as Ray has repeatedly pointed out, stuff like firing Comey, pardoning himself, holstering Putin, blatant lying (not under oath!), enabling and encouraging racists and bigots, and generally being a self-serving, pompous, narcissistic, mysogynist clown aren't crimes, and those that value partisanship and judicial legacies as more important than any of those things, ranging from Clapper to - apparently - yourself, are doing what's necessary to excuse/promote/justify Big Orange.

Reich's article was written before Trump took office; Trump has made every single one of them the norm since then, and - increasingly - otherwise intelligent people are not only tacitly but actively assisting the process, and belittling and dismissing those that express concern. Snore, indeed. I hope you wake up soon.
   68. BDC Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5685688)
There's a bigger margin on Lexuses than on Honda Civics, one assumes. That doesn't mean that it's difficult to find people willing to manufacture the latter

Didn't Ford just give up on selling Fiestas in the United States? And I think that Chevrolet is also discontinuing the Sonic here, too. So oddly enough it is getting difficult to find people willing.
   69. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:56 PM (#5685690)

Crap. Read the synopsis too quickly. Mea culpa.
No biggie; I just couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic in some way.

   70. Lassus Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:58 PM (#5685692)
Like much of the "legal terminology" I use comfortably and based on experience rather than googling (*), this also apparently flew over your head.

I really think you probably talk to people out loud like this. Scare quotes, footnotes, the whole thing.
   71. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5685695)
NEWS ALERT: GLEYBER GOES DEEP, SQUARES IT AT 1-1

Greg Bird HR makes it 2-1. The lack of a timely Omnichatter is a disgrace. Write your Congressman.
   72. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5685696)
NEWS ALERT: GLEYBER GOES DEEP, SQUARES IT AT 1-1

UDATE: THE BIRD'S THE WORD! 2-1 YANKS
   73. BDC Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5685697)
It seems that most people here feel that teachers, despite collective bargaining, tenure, and civil-service protections, still don't have good enough job conditions. (Aside from instances of corruption like the one strong silence brings up.)

As YR notes, a fair number of teachers in higher-ed have business or professional experience, and are either retired from, or cutting back on those careers. It can vary by field (all the way from architecture faculty, who are required to be practicing architects) to fields like the humanities that don't have a corresponding profession: though at that, I have taught in English departments with people who've had long careers in nursing, journalism, business, and other fields. The pay is lousy, but there seems to be a compensation in the freedom (from bureaucratic supervision) that university instructors still maintain, relative to schoolteaching.
   74. -- Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5685700)
I really think you probably talk to people out loud like this. Scare quotes, footnotes, the whole thing.


??

What does that even mean?

The obnoxious stalker you oft-depend on was wrong ... again. With or without footnotes or scare quotes. What more can be said? Maybe you should be more inquisitive to him, instead of me. All I do is write the occasional correct thing, as I did here. Not sure what's so controversial about that -- beyond the utterly bizarre obsession with me as a so-called "Trumpkin."
   75. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:08 PM (#5685701)
ROMINE GOES DEEP AND IT'S NOW 7-1 YANKS!!!
   76. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5685702)
Heh... yet more evidence I heartily welcome our teenage overlords....

"This is the part of my speech where I share some inspirational quotes I found on Google," said Bell County High School valedictorian Ben Bowling in his speech. " 'Don't just get involved. Fight for your seat at the table. Better yet, fight for a seat at the head of the table.' — Donald J. Trump."

The crowd burst into applause.

"Just kidding," Bowling said. "That was Barack Obama."

The 18-year-old valedictorian said the crowd quickly went silent.
   77. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5685705)
Libertarians don't believe in the existence of "corporate power" in the way leftists seem to use the term.


THATS THE JOKE.
   78. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:12 PM (#5685706)
DMN, that's the first time I've seen you elevated to "stalker" status. I think I feel diminished.

(For those needing annotation, SBB reserves "stalker" for those who repeatedly try to (gasp) hold him accountable for the more... fanciful things he says. Essentially it's his method of permanently conceding.)
   79. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5685707)
Libertarians don't believe in the existence of "corporate power" in the way leftists seem to use the term.

Republicans don't believe in the existence of "evolution" in the way scientists seem to use the term. Humperdido!

Ahh, I really could use a refreshing beverage on a scorching day like this!
   80. DavidFoss Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5685708)
Scott Pruitt sends an aide to find a used mattress from a Trump Hotel.

Perhaps not very high on the list of concerning things about Scott Pruitt, but it would make a great setup line for a punchline contest.
   81. -- Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5685709)
DMN, that's the first time I've seen you elevated to "stalker" status. I think I feel diminished.


Nope, I've used it once or twice before.

For those needing annotation, SBB reserves "stalker" for those who repeatedly try to (gasp) hold him accountable for the more... fanciful things he says.


I reserve the term "stalker" for people who stalk.

   82. Lassus Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5685711)
What more can be said?

From lawyers? Regarding the law? Is that a serious question?


Maybe you should be more inquisitive to him, instead of me.

I already quoted an actual Constitutional scholar in the previous thread who seemed a bit more in line with David than yourself. Maybe you could go with Dersh, he's bound to comment at some point.
   83. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5685712)

NEWS ALERT: GLEYBER GOES DEEP, SQUARES IT AT 1-1
Andy, I don't care about this particular game, but I have asked you repeatedly not to post game spoilers in OTP. There is no reason whatsoever for doing it except to be a jerk.
   84. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5685714)
FWIW, I had a nice visit and chat with a native walking the West Side High Line in Manhattan a couple of weeks ago. SF could stand to learn a lot from how the LWS has been developed. And I fully agree that SF residents who who are opposed to high-rises on principle and yet outraged by homelessness and rent prices are pretty damn dumb.

On the other side, the City is so corrupt in their dealing with RE developers I can see why people would be cautious.
   85. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5685718)
On the other hand this is something I suspect most in the GOP hope doesn't happen


Most of the GOP will be as spineless and willing as Jason. They will do anything to sucker up to power. They will march Hispanic and Latino children into death camps if it gets them war with Iran or a tax cut or religious nutjobs on the bench.
   86. -- Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5685719)
I already quoted an actual Constitutional scholar in the previous thread who seemed a bit more in line with David than yourself.


No, he wasn't. "David's" "line" was that the court didn't address what I said it did, which ... well, I'm not exactly sure why someone would post such a thing, beyond stalking and inadequacies. It's so baldly and obviously wrong that those can be the only explanations.



   87. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5685720)
Andy, I don't care about this particular game, but I have asked you repeatedly not to post game spoilers in OTP. There is no reason whatsoever for doing it except to be a jerk.


Clapper is also doing OMNICHATTER updates here. The same fcvktarded shitweasle who demanded people not talk about "pop culture" in his precious, precious OTP. #### that guy. May he die in agony and the pain of watching his loved ones proceed him into oblivion.
   88. Lassus Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:35 PM (#5685721)
It's so baldly and obviously wrong that those can be the only explanations.

Are you a Constitutional scholar? You've gotten on David for speaking out of his area of expertise; but I guess we're not allowed to know if you are or not?

As has been explained to you previously (by others, not even myself), you've been so quack-like with a significant enough percentage of your posts that you'll have to forgive me if I wait for corroboration. (And I have questioned David prior, and been correct at least once, so I don't accept what he says as rote. It's just that you, well, you're not really often in the zip code of correct.)
   89. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5685722)

THATS THE JOKE.
I guess it was one of those examples of going for applause rather than laughter.
   90. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:38 PM (#5685723)
Clapper is also doing OMNICHATTER updates here. The same fcvktarded shitweasle who demanded people not talk about "pop culture" in his precious, precious OTP. #### that guy. May he die in agony and the pain of watching his loved ones proceed him into oblivion.


Can we move pedantic discussions about con law decisions to its own thread as well? It seems a place like this (just saying) that has zero to no moderation and zero post rating features relies a lot on self discipline and mutual respect. Good luck with that.
   91. -- Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:43 PM (#5685725)
Are you a Constitutional scholar?


Not sure what that means. I did very well in a Supreme Court class in college then got the top grade in the class in two Con Law classes in law school. (You asked, so I answered -- ten-plus years in.) I've kinda sorta kept up with the big cases since law school.

But none of those are necessary to have a decent ability to read a Supreme Court opinion, which I'm amply able to do. I would be if I'd never been to law school. Many non-lawyers can, too.

Do I deal with it professionally? No, not really, though there are constitutional implications to several issues I do deal with routinely.

You've gotten on David for speaking out of his area of expertise, but I guess we're not allowed to know if you are or not?


I've gotten on him more for saying stupid dilettantish stuff with a faux-authoritative tone, and pulling the wool over the eyes of his layman target demo -- which he did again here. He's plainly bristling at the fact that he doesn't have the "top lawyer on the board you therefore must listen to me" status, for which he clearly yearns. And to try to capture that status, he's turned to trying to win votes for it -- but it's not really a voting matter.

As has been explained to you previously, you've been so quack-like with a significant enough percentage of your posts that you'll have to forgive me if I wait for corroboration.


Here's corroboration, from the concurring opinion:

The Court partly relies on the “disparate consideration
of Phillips’ case compared to the cases of [three] other
bakers” who “objected to a requested cake on the basis of
conscience.” Ante, at 14, 18.


The opinion goes on to address this at length; it's really the only part of the majority opinion addressed by the concurrence. It's that part that Stalkey said wasn't part of the majority's reasoning.
   92. Traderdave Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5685726)
I read DMN's posts in a Cliff Claven voice, and SBB's in a Foghorn Leghorn voice.

I find it adds depth and color to the exchange.
   93. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5685729)
I did very well in a Supreme Court class in college


So he has zero expertise on the issue over David. He's just jacking off in a corner, per his usual bit.
   94. Lassus Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5685730)
Here's corroboration, from the concurring opinion:

"Allow me to offer corroboration for my opinion on the court's decision by quoting the court"?


I've gotten on him more for saying stupid dilettantish stuff with a faux-authoritative tone, and pulling the wool over the eyes of his layman target demo -- which he did again here.

"More". Well, you did get on him for what I said you got on him for, so this is an exceedingly evasive answer. I'll take that as a yes, we aren't allowed to know what your area of law is. You could have just said so.
   95. BDC Posted: June 04, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5685731)
I'm not quite sure what your point is, SBB. DMN says (agreeing here with the take by the SCOTUSbloggers that Gonfalon cited) that

They didn't decide that the bakers have a free speech right not to bake the cake, nor did they even decide (contrary to reporting) that the bakers have a free exercise right not to bake the cake. (They didn't decide to the contrary, either.) They ruled rather that the state's decision violated the bakers' free exercise rights because the state's decision was infected by anti-religious animus

So the fact that the commission treated a religious claim with hostility (compared to secular claims) is relevant to showing that hostility. But there is no wider implication about free exercise of religion by bakers.

Unless you think that the Court made a sweeping claim about free exercise in this cake decision, you might actually be agreeing with DMN for once, which means you should probably leave it at that, but I guess you won't :)
   96. Lassus Posted: June 04, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5685732)
for saying stupid dilettantish stuff with a faux-authoritative tone

I really only fully appreciated this now.
   97. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 04, 2018 at 03:10 PM (#5685734)
NEWS ALERT: GLEYBER GOES DEEP, SQUARES IT AT 1-1

Andy, I don't care about this particular game, but I have asked you repeatedly not to post game spoilers in OTP. There is no reason whatsoever for doing it except to be a jerk.


I only did it for the same reason Clapper did: Because there's no Omnichatter thread up. Otherwise that's where I would've put it.

Oh, and update: It's now 7-2 in the bottom of the 7th.
   98. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 03:13 PM (#5685735)
I only did it for the same reason Clapper did: Because there's no Omnichatter thread up.


If there's no OMNI up, you can either put up an OMNI, or not comment in real time. Putting it here when you've been asked not to is just a dick move.
   99. DavidFoss Posted: June 04, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5685737)
At first I thought it was a comment on the DEEP STATE, but then I realized that a day game had started already.
   100. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5685740)
There's a bigger margin on Lexuses than on Honda Civics, one assumes. That doesn't mean that it's difficult to find people willing to manufacture the latter.

Except you are. Ford is getting out of the car business and quite a few car companies have dropped or cutback their low end lines.
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