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Monday, March 19, 2018

OTP 2018 March 19: Spending bill could quash Minor League Baseball players’ wage claims

A massive government spending bill that Congress is expected to consider this week could include a provision exempting Minor League Baseball players from federal labor laws, according to three congressional officials familiar with the talks.

The exemption would represent the culmination of more than two years of lobbying by Major League Baseball, which has sought to preempt a spate of lawsuits that have been filed by minor leaguers alleging they have been illegally underpaid.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 19, 2018 at 07:25 AM | 2016 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: minor league pay, minor leagues, off topic, owners, politics

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   101. PepTech Posted: March 20, 2018 at 03:09 AM (#5640073)
Trump won the only poll there is: the 2016 Electoral College.
Riddikulus!!
   102. manchestermets Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:12 AM (#5640074)
Someone remind me, is it a mainstream Libertarian position that politicians should not be subject to the rule of law?
   103. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:29 AM (#5640075)
Some of the many ways in which that Cynthia Nixon ad is awful (as 95% of all political ads are):

* She's apparently running for Governor of New York City.
* Too many close-ups on her HEY I'M FAMOUS face.
* THOSE FATCATS IN POWER line so, so, so tired.
* So.................. much............................ Slow-mo
* Token "upstate" nod to random faceless city instead of somewhere someone in Syracuse, Rochester, or Buffalo would actually recognize.
* No goddamn policies. I guess no one does that, but they should.

Anyhow, it sucks, but at least she's trying, I guess.
   104. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:35 AM (#5640076)
Andrew Cuomo on the chilling threat of Cynthia Nixon: "Normally, name recognition is relevant when it has some connection to the endeavor. If it’s just about name recognition, then I’m hoping Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie and Billy Joel don’t get into the race.”

Andrew Cuomo objects to getting a leg up in New York politics based on name recognition.
I'm not a Cuomo fan, and yeah, your observation makes for a good punchline, but it's not what he said and the situations are hardly comparable. Cuomo didn't just announce one day after years of celebrityhood that he was going to run for governor. He worked his way up through government. Obviously he got a boost his whole life from his connections and his name, but that's not the same thing.
   105. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:37 AM (#5640077)
“No authoritarian, no authoritarian. You authoritarian.”


They are. Bankrupting the Oregon cake baker for not engaging in state-mandated speech was quintessentially and baldly authoritarian. Modern liberals cheered it on vociferously.

Trump as "authoritarian" is pure projection. He has some authoritarian impulses, but modern liberals actually carry out governmental authoritarianism and cheer it on.
   106. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:38 AM (#5640078)
And as others have noted, an irrelevant hypothetical doesn't bring us any closer to addressing either question.


Nah, it's not "irrelevant" in the least. People just want to pretend it is because they know the ramifications of their answer. That's what happens when shibboleths take on such important roles in political philosophies.
   107. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:40 AM (#5640079)
It bears repeating that a wedding cake is not speech, it was not requested to have words on it, and 99.999% of wedding cakes never have words on them.
   108. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:47 AM (#5640080)

If you think Dershowitz is a Trump defender you're very confused.
Well, he's not as much of one as you are... but, then again, neither is Donald Trump Jr.
   109. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:48 AM (#5640081)

Trump won the only poll there is: the 2016 Electoral College.
That's not a poll in the first place, let alone the only one. Trump lost every poll there is.
   110. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:05 AM (#5640083)
It bears repeating that a wedding cake is not speech, it was not requested to have words on it,


It doesn't have to have words on it to be speech. Paintings don't have words on them and they're speech. The cake is creative expression, specially created at request. It's no different than if the couple had gone in to an artist and said, "Will you create a painting for our wedding"?

Is a silent movie not speech? Please. Let's try to maintain at least a semblance of sanity upon the proceedings.

   111. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:06 AM (#5640084)

It bears repeating that a wedding cake is not speech, it was not requested to have words on it, and 99.999% of wedding cakes never have words on them.
It's what's known in first amendment law as symbolic speech. Burning a flag does not involve words, but that does not mean that doing so isn't speech. It bears noting that the reason for the proceeding was precisely because of the message conveyed. The putative customers didn't say, "We desperately needed a cake, and that's why we pursued this complaint"; they could, and did, easily get a comparable cake elsewhere. They were upset because it hurt their feelings that someone opposed gay marriage.
   112. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:08 AM (#5640085)

Note that the two Trumpistas in this discussion both employ the "No puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet" argument. Not a shocker; it's the only way to "defend" Trump.
   113. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:10 AM (#5640086)
And not only was the cake speech, the discrimination against the baker was purely based on the content of the speech the state wanted him to create. If the couple had gone in and said they'd wanted a cake for the KKK rally they wanted to host, there's zero chance the state would have compelled that speech.

It was pure, unalloyed authoritarianism.
   114. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:10 AM (#5640087)
Weinstein Company files for bankruptcy and then turns a flamethrower on Harvey himself.

"Today, the Company also takes an important step toward justice for any victims who have been silenced by Harvey Weinstein. Since October, it has been reported that Harvey Weinstein used non-disclosure agreements as a secret weapon to silence his accusers.

Effective immediately, those "agreements" end. The Company expressly releases any confidentiality provision to the extent it has prevented individuals who suffered or witnessed any form of sexual misconduct by Harvey Weinstein from telling their stories. No one should be afraid to speak out or coerced to stay quiet. The Company thanks the courageous individuals who have already come forward. Your voices have inspired a movement for change across the country and around the world."


(emphasis mine)
   115. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: March 20, 2018 at 07:37 AM (#5640090)
Note that the two Trumpistas in this discussion both employ the "No puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet" argument. Not a shocker; it's the only way to "defend" Trump.

Projection is all they’ve ever had.
   116. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:04 AM (#5640093)
They are. Bankrupting the Oregon cake baker for not engaging in state-mandated speech was quintessentially and baldly authoritarian. Modern liberals cheered it on vociferously.


JFC.

You know, if you had asked Focus on the Family or Mike Pence to sponsor you at a nickel a pop every time you brought this up, you could have paid the fine for them AND paid for a move to a state of the art new bakery in Alabama.

It's never too late, though, because I expect you'll still do it several dozen times a day starting now anyway.
   117. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:06 AM (#5640094)
the discrimination against the baker was purely based on the content of the speech the state wanted him to create


All of this is of course a lie*. But debating stretchy about Gay Cakes is about the most boring thing in the Universe (well OK tied for debating Stretchy about ... well everything). Yes, Stretchy, we know, you only have like four things you talk about and you use the exact same examples every time. "Gay Cakes!" ... "White Hispanics!" and so on.

You need new material dude, or at least some new examples to show the ongoing depredations of the "Modern Liberals!". Sadly we "Modern Liberals" are the only liberals left, and so we must soldier on. Maybe someday many more million people will join you and Mark Lilla and you can for a True Liberal party.

* In the Oregon case, a great deal of the reason it turned out the way it did is because of how the bigoted bakers acted AFTER the "No Cake for Your Type" incident.
   118. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:33 AM (#5640098)

* In the Oregon case, a great deal of the reason it turned out the way it did is because of how the bigoted bakers acted AFTER the "No Cake for Your Type" incident.
This is wrong. No part of the reason it turned out the way it did had anything to do with post-'incident' activities. It's true that the gay snowflakes whined that the bakers had caused them to be harassed after the 'incident', but even if that were true it would be irrelevant because that was after the complaint had already been filed, and it's not true anyway; the judge expressly rejected that claim.
   119. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:41 AM (#5640100)
and it's not true anyway; the judge expressly rejected that claim.

Judges also expressly reject claims that cops harass or beat on people for no reason. You think that makes those claims not true also?
   120. Greg K Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:45 AM (#5640102)
I think he means if the judge rejected the claim, then that claim didn't have much influence on how the case turned out.
   121. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:50 AM (#5640104)
It's true that the gay snowflakes whined that the bakers had caused them to be harassed after the 'incident', but even if that were true it would be irrelevant because that was after the complaint had already been filed, and it's not true anyway; the judge expressly rejected that claim.

Do not know how to parse the bolded pronoun so it doesn't refer to the former. It doesn't refer to the case, but the claim of harassment. The third bolded phrase modifies to the second bolded pronoun. As usual, I'll defer to gef on sentence construction.

EDIT: I'll accept David meant that "it's not true" that the bakers caused the couple to be harassed, rather than "it's not true" that the couple was harassed. Don't buy that much either, but it makes more sense.
   122. Greg K Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:53 AM (#5640105)
Yeah reading it over it is a bit ambiguous. There are two true/false conditions referred to throughout.
   123. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:54 AM (#5640106)
The cake is creative expression, specially created at request.


I'm going to protest outside of Whole Foods. Their eclairs are phallic symbols. They must reshape them!
   124. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:57 AM (#5640108)
It's primary day back in my former and future home state --

The big congressional primary is in IL-03, where the odious Dan Lipiniski of the odious Lipinski machine clan is looking to hang on -- the national coverage has tried to pretend this is all about abortion, but I think they're forgetting the odious method that the odious younger Lipinski got his seat to begin with... Daddy, a still-powerful ward boss on the SW side, retired after 20some odd years and parachuted sonny boy into the seat post-primary (power brokers gonna broke power) from Tennessee. Lipinski has also flip-flopped on everything under the sun- DOMA, DREAM Act, DADT, voted against the ACA even as he now pretends to run to 'save' it, and for the coup de grace - a PAC supporting him even did mailers for him with Obama even though they can't stand each other; Lipinski didn't even endorse Obama in 2012 (a fact that a bunch of Obama alumni made clear after the mailer). This is also the district where the GOP candidate is a real, actual Nazi - he's the only one on the ballot.... There's nothing good about Lipinski he's a machine jackal, through and through... Him losing would feel almost as good as Connor Lamb's win last week.

I also wonder if Rauner will survive his primary - the IL GOP is a disaster area and there just aren't many competitive races, while every one under the sun is running for various offices on the D side so it's likely GOP turnout is pretty thin. On the D side, if I had a vote, I think it would probably be for Dan Biss but I expect Pritzker's dumptruck of cash will carry him over the finish line... The only good thing I can think of about Pritzker is that he's not Rauner, which will probably be more than enough in the fall.

Lisa Madigan's surprise retirement also has a whole gaggle of Dems running for AG - including former governor Pat Quinn. The guy who filled Obama's old state senate seat, Kwame Raoul, seems to be the progressive favorite but I couldn't say one way or another how I'd vote in this race.
   125. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 08:58 AM (#5640109)
How do you buy 46 booster packs and still have 6 uncommons missing from the set?
   126. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:05 AM (#5640110)

Ray’s selective memory is something to behold.



Behold!
   127. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5640113)
All of this is of course a lie*.


None of it is even close to a lie, and the reason you and yours find it "boring" is that it exposes your hypocrisy and lurch toward authoritarianism. It's that simple.

The cake baker example, again, is unalloyed authoritarianism (*), in every sense of the word, and you and yours have applauded it vociferously. Not much more need to be said than that.

(*) Definition:
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
.

Bingo in every particular. The enforcement of obedience to governmental authority is so strong that it's mandating both speech and action on the state's behalf.
   128. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5640115)
Another mail bomb in Texas, another school shooting in Maryland... just another day in America Made Great Again, I guess.
   129. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:17 AM (#5640117)
All that happened "after the fact" is that the cake baker spoke and the usual suspects wanted the state to suppress or punish that speech, too.
   130. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:18 AM (#5640118)
None of it is even close to a lie, and the reason you and yours find it "boring" is that it exposes your hypocrisy and lurch toward authoritarianism. It's that simple.


By my count, there have been 131 OTP threads.

Guess how many you've whipped out your favorite binkie in...
   131. Greg K Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:18 AM (#5640119)
Lisa Madigan's surprise retirement also has a whole gaggle of Dems running for AG - including former governor Pat Quinn. The guy who filled Obama's old state senate seat, Kwame Raoul, seems to be the progressive favorite but I couldn't say one way or another how I'd vote in this race.

I don't know. If given the opportunity to vote for the guy who knocked out Bobby Orr, I'd take it.
   132. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:22 AM (#5640121)
Guess how many you've whipped out your favorite binkie in...


Concede the error of your ways and perhaps that will change. Until then, your claims of "authoritarianism" aimed at anyone else are laughable. Little to nothing in recent times has been as authoritarian as the cake baker bankruptcy.
   133. SteveF Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:22 AM (#5640122)
I don't know. If given the opportunity to vote for the guy who knocked out Bobby Orr, I'd take it.

I'm not sure he could afford the time off from running another hockey franchise into the ground.
   134. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:24 AM (#5640123)
Concede the error of your ways and perhaps that will change. Until then, your claims of "authoritarianism" aimed at anyone else are laughable.


That's not a number. The only valid answer would be a number.
   135. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:27 AM (#5640124)
That's not a number. The only valid answer would be a number.


Concession accepted. You and yours are the authoritarians. Sorry. Makes the TDS whining -- a never-ending staple of every OTP thread the last two years -- seem like pure salty croc tears.

That and "GZ, WH" are the essence of modern liberalism -- which is why they're such perfect shorthands. You and yours have never been able to live them down ... because they can't be lived down. Naturally, they're going to routinely appear in a thread pretty much devoted to the MLCJ.
   136. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:31 AM (#5640125)
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

I believe this is the time YR normally whips it out.... his stand against the authoritarianism of pants, that is.
   137. DavidFoss Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5640126)
Little to nothing in recent times has been as authoritarian as the cake baker bankruptcy.

A consumer-led boycott is the same as firing the people in the justice department who are investigating you?

I mean, who would have thought that ticking off homosexual customers would be a bad move in the wedding planning industry? Most consumer-led boycotts are toothless and don't amount to anything, but this one is a bit obvious. Some people just weren't using their heads.
   138. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5640129)
A consumer-led boycott


??

There was a state-imposed sanction on the baker. A very hefty one, including mandated speech and suppression of speech.
   139. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:39 AM (#5640130)
Concession accepted. You and yours are the authoritarians. Sorry. Makes the TDS whining -- a never-ending staple of every OTP thread the last two years -- seem like pure salty croc tears.


These are still letters and words, not numbers. The valid answer will be comprised of digits - and as an added hint, the valid range would be somewhere between 1 and 131.
   140. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5640131)
The valid answer will be comprised of digits - and as an added hint, the valid range would be somewhere between 1 and 131.


The hope would be 131, though I doubt that's accurate. Since every one of the 131 ultimately becomes an MLCJ, it would be the perfect antidote.
   141. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:43 AM (#5640132)
These are still letters and words, not numbers. The valid answer will be comprised of digits - and as an added hint, the valid range would be somewhere between 1 and 131.


Theoretically 0 would be part of the valid range. But as we all know, strictly theoretically.
   142. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:44 AM (#5640134)
A consumer-led boycott is the same as firing the people in the justice department who are investigating you?


Even Ray and Stretch Armstrong realize the walls are closing in on their Dear Leader. Stretch's reflexive bounce back into his favorite fetal curl repetition of all time (TEH GAY CAKERIES!!!) is symptomatic. He's bailing back into familiar water that he knows he can churn endlessly without making any kind of useful or relevant point, to avoid the mounting mountains of evidence against his beloved lord and savior in DC.
   143. Morty Causa Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:50 AM (#5640137)
Supreme Court justices seemed confused and irritated by all fine parsings. But, hey, a baker has greater rights of expression than Michaelangelo would have? That's not likely to fly.

"So in other words, Mies or Michelangelo or someone is not protected when he creates the Laurentian steps, but this cake baker is protected when he creates the cake without any message on it for a wedding? Now that — that really does baffle me, I have to say," Justice Stephen Breyer said.

"We're asking these questions," Justice Breyer said, "because we want some kind of distinction that will not undermine every civil rights law." Those civil rights laws have long barred discrimination based on race, sex and religion.

Solicitor General Noel Francisco, making his first appearance on behalf of the Trump administration and supporting the baker, agreed that the court should not allow such exceptions when discrimination is based on race. But he urged the justices to allow some narrow cases of discrimination, such as in this case, when the discrimination is based on gender, or religion, or sexual orientation.


Supreme Court Seems Split In Case Of Baker Vs. Same-Sex Couple; Eyes Now On Kennedy
   144. BDC Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5640139)
In any case, Bear, to strengthen your argument, you should consider branching out into other examples of Why the Left Are the Real Authoritarians. "Because they want a black person to join four white people at a table" was good, but you might also consider "Some college kids didn't want Richard Spencer speaking on their campus." If those fail, there's always Citizens United :)
   145. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5640140)
All of this is of course a lie*.

None of it is even close to a lie


Pretty much everything you say is either a lie or achingly stupid. Often both.

and the reason you and yours find it "boring" is that it exposes your hypocrisy and lurch toward authoritarianism.


Indeed, those jackboots have been on the march since they demanded the Negro be allowed to shuffle into any restaurant they wanted and order off the menu like a normal person. They wouldn’t even accept a compromise where the spooks could come in through the back door or just eat fried chicken and watermelon, noooo, they had to be treated like anyone else. Tyranny.
   146. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5640141)
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

I believe this is the time YR normally whips it out.... his stand against the authoritarianism of pants, that is.


Indeed, as if my handsome genitals couldn’t be free speech. I suppose I could write the Gettysburg Address on my dongue just to reinforce the point; do you think 12-point typeface is necessary or would I just be showing off?
   147. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:00 AM (#5640143)
In any case, Bear, to strengthen your argument, you should consider branching out into other examples of Why the Left Are the Real Authoritarians.


Not the "real" authoritarians -- rightists tend toward authoritarianism, too -- but authoritarians nonetheless. Few things are as authoritarian as the government compelling state-approved speech.

"Because they want a black person to join four white people at a table" was good,


That didn't have anything to do with authoritarianism.
   148. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:01 AM (#5640144)
You and yours are the authoritarians. Sorry.


Why are you sorry? Seriously. You are also an authoritarian, but your own measure.

You repeatedly have supported the government forcing restaurants and other similar businesses into serving African Americans (to pick one example). You engage in special pleading, but the very fact you do this means you are also an authoritarian, but your own "rules".

Are you also sorry that you are that way? I am not embarrassed by my opinions, it is a bit sad you are by your own.

EDIT: Fixed auto-correct typo.
   149. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5640145)
"We're asking these questions," Justice Breyer said, "because we want some kind of distinction that will not undermine every civil rights law."


If those laws can only be enforced through state-mandated speech, they should be "undermined."
   150. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:04 AM (#5640149)
Indeed, as if my handsome genitals couldn’t be free speech.

A swing and a miss on the opportunity to reference 1 Corinthians 14:39.
   151. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:05 AM (#5640150)
You know it is a slow news period when the OTP denizens decide to have the same old fight with Bear that they always have.


Anyway, today we've got a Maker's Mark event going on. Maker's is sending a bunch of their ambassadors over to spend money and talk about Maker's.
   152. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5640151)
It is always weird to realize that there are parts of Maryland that are 70 miles south of DC.
   153. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5640153)
Greg K correctly parsed my ambiguously-worded comment on the bakers. To simplify and clarify: the bakers were fined in the six figures solely for the act of denying the cake to the couple. Not for anything the bakers did, or purportedly caused to be done, to the couple afterwards. The couple did allege that they suffered harassment and emotional distress after they filed their complaint, but that was not a basis for the fine.
   154. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5640154)
It is always weird to realize that there are parts of Maryland that are 70 miles south of DC.


There is a small section of New Jersey that is inexplicably south of DC
   155. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5640156)
I don't know. If given the opportunity to vote for the guy who knocked out Bobby Orr, I'd take it.

I'm not sure he could afford the time off from running another hockey franchise into the ground.


That Pat Quinn would make for a perfect politician as he'd never say anything stupid or controversial...since he died over 3 years ago.
   156. Morty Causa Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:24 AM (#5640157)
"We're asking these questions," Justice Breyer said, "because we want some kind of distinction that will not undermine every civil rights law."

If those laws can only be enforced through state-mandated speech, they should be "undermined.

Is every act and product of business an issue of free speech?

Do you distinguish between the baker having to provide a product or service that he holds himself out as rendering to the public at large to a member of that public regardless of that customer's sexual orientation and the baker having to specially accommodate that customer along the lines of his orientation? As in having to provide that generic wedding cake he holds himself out as providing to the general public to a member of that general public on the one hand and creating a special design with the icing of one guy in a tux fellating another guy in a tux (conveniently opened)? Is there a difference as to the baker's legal obligations between the two in your view?
   157. BDC Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5640158)
For Texas … El Paso is west of Santa Fe. Brownsville TX is south of Ft. Lauderdale. Beaumont TX is east of Kansas City MO. Perico TX is north of Nashville. We got everybody bracketed.
   158. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5640159)
Indeed, as if my handsome genitals couldn’t be free speech.

A swing and a miss on the opportunity to reference 1 Corinthians 14:39.


Check your goyische privilege, bigot.
   159. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5640160)
A part of Canada is more south that a part of California.
   160. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5640161)
It is always weird to realize that there are parts of Maryland that are 70 miles south of DC.


There is a small section of New Jersey that is inexplicably south of DC


When you head south from Detroit, what is the first foreign county you encounter?
   161. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5640163)
The reason why I think it is weird is because for DC residents we generally think of east and north as Maryland and south and west as Virginia.
   162. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5640166)
Check your goyische privilege, bigot.

I'm an atheist. All y'all are equal in my eyes.
   163. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:32 AM (#5640167)
When you head south from Detroit, what is the first foreign county you encounter?


I assume the correct answer is some sort of Journey reference.
   164. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5640169)

When you head south from Detroit, what is the first foreign county you encounter?


America! Speaking of Detroit I'm actually headed out there in the beginning of April for a day trip for business. Apparently one of our hotels out there has Top Golf simulators and we're going to test them out to see if we want to bring them into our hotel. April in Detroit doesn't quite have the same charm as saying April in New York.
   165. The Good Face Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:34 AM (#5640170)
Anyway, today we've got a Maker's Mark event going on. Maker's is sending a bunch of their ambassadors over to spend money and talk about Maker's.


Tell them their barrel proof offering is aggressively mediocre. Overpriced and nowhere near the quality of their competitor's products. Seriously, barrel proofs releases should be flagships for distilleries, opportunities to let their best juice shine, and Maker's is really flagging compared to Heaven Hill, Buffalo Trace, Brown-Forman, 4 Roses and even the rest of Beam.
   166. DavidFoss Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5640171)
Reno is west of Los Angeles. York, Maine is the same latitude as Milwaukee.
   167. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5640172)
There is a small section of New Jersey that is inexplicably south of DC

Is there latitudinal proof on this one?
   168. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:39 AM (#5640175)
Never had their cask strength. Hell, I didn't even know they had one. On a side note the market for Maker's 46 seems to be growing.

I talked with Buffalo Trace the other day and I was blown away to find out that Buffalo Trace and Wellers is flying off the shelf to the point where they can't keep up with demand. Apparently Buffalo Trace has drastically scaled back their allocations of Buffalo Trace to retail stores so that bars and restaurants can keep bottles in stock. Have no idea how true that is but that is what they told me. They came over because they struck a deal with corporate to mandate Blanton's at all hotels and I asked corporate how they plan on actually keeping Blanton's on our shelves due to the fact that there is a very small supply of it going around. The answer basically amounts to tough.
   169. Zonk wouldn't or would he? Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5640176)
There is a small section of New Jersey that is inexplicably south of DC


Is there latitudinal proof on this one?


I think a small chunk of the Cape May resort area ends up south of DC...
   170. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:41 AM (#5640177)
77

I wouldn't vote for either a Nixon or a Cuomo unless Cuomo's father came back to life, but has Alan Dershowitz ever influenced a single vote anywhere?


I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet on one...
   171. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:41 AM (#5640178)

Is there latitudinal proof on this one?


Cape May is more southern than the northern most point of DC
   172. Traderdave Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5640179)
Tell them their barrel proof offering is aggressively mediocre. Overpriced and nowhere near the quality of their competitor's products. Seriously, barrel proofs releases should be flagships for distilleries, opportunities to let their best juice shine, and Maker's is really flagging compared to Heaven Hill, Buffalo Trace, Brown-Forman, 4 Roses and even the rest of Beam.


Correct-a-mundo, though minor quibble that BF hasn't done much in that department.


While in some respects Makers is handcuffed, their style has always been to have barrels as near to uniform as possible, but the single barrel/barrel proof trend has been going on long enough that they really should have caught up by now.

Edit:

To be clear, I was talking more about single barrel/small batch. Makers does have a cask strength. It's underwhelming, the least interesting cask strength I've tried, but to be fair I'm not wild about Makers to begin with. It's the Toyota Camry of bourbon: reliable, good value, boring.

   173. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5640180)
According to Wikipedia, the southernmost point in NJ is at 38.56 N, while the official latitude of DC is 38.54.17. Since DC is not a point, it’s possible the northern part of the district is north of 38.56
   174. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5640183)
1799 Verbena St NW appears to be the northern most point in DC. The home is for sale for 834,000 and it last sold in 2016 for 775,000. An almost 60 year old 3,000 sq ft home on a 9,500 sq ft lot.
   175. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5640184)
86

Institutions like the FBI had become unchecked sources of power


The FBI always was an unchecks source of power. Or have you not heard of J. Edgar Hoover?

EDIT: more 86

If the people who are attacking him show no respect for the office,... there's little reason he should [sit there and take it].


Plenty of respect for the Office. Not an ounce of it for the man. This is just one person's opinion.
   176. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5640185)


While in some respects Makers is handcuffed, their style has always been to have barrels as near to uniform as possible, but the single barrel/barrel proof trend has been going on long enough that they really should have caught up by now.


They don't really have any intention of doing so. Even their barrel program isn't a single barrel program. You get to make your own unique Maker's a la Maker's 46 methods.
   177. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5640186)
Cape May is more southern than the northern most point of DC

While I don't doubt this portion (even without the numbers as yet), it is not the same as Cape May or any part of NJ being south of DC, which is what I'm questioning, from #154.
   178. The Good Face Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5640188)
Never had their cask strength. Hell, I didn't even know they had one. On a side note the market for Maker's 46 seems to be growing.


It's disappointing and on the expensive side. Like I said, a fail because most other producers use cask strength (or high proof) offerings as a chance to strut their stuff, serve as brand ambassadors.

I talked with Buffalo Trace the other day and I was blown away to find out that Buffalo Trace and Wellers is flying off the shelf to the point where they can't keep up with demand. Apparently Buffalo Trace has drastically scaled back their allocations of Buffalo Trace to retail stores so that bars and restaurants can keep bottles in stock. Have no idea how true that is but that is what they told me. They came over because they struck a deal with corporate to mandate Blanton's at all hotels and I asked corporate how they plan on actually keeping Blanton's on our shelves due to the fact that there is a very small supply of it going around. The answer basically amounts to tough.


Weller is impossible to find in stores in the Tri State area unless you're willing to pay secondary prices. Hard pass. Buffalo Trace is still readily available, but there are plenty of other bourbons in its price range that I prefer, so whatever. Blanton's is often available, but it's just cromulent IMO* and not a good value even at MSRP. Bourbon distribution really varies wildly from region to region.

*Blanton's Straight From the Barrel is a different animal entirely, but is only distributed outside of the US.
   179. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5640190)
Is there latitudinal proof on this one?


Yeah it's like reallllly close. I thought that there was clear proof but at the very least they are almost equally southern. I looked at Wikipedia too after posting that and realized that it is not as clear cut as I thought. As a kid my dad used to always say it but he was apparently wrong.
   180. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:51 AM (#5640191)
While I don't doubt this portion (even without the numbers as yet), it is not the same as Cape May or any part of NJ being south of DC, which is what I'm questioning, from #154.

As in if you only go south and south alone you'll hit it? No that won't happen. There is no part of NJ that is directly south of DC. But if you go head in a straight line eastward from DC you will eventually look to your right and see NJ.
   181. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5640192)
The cake is creative expression, specially created at request.
This is basically bullshit. I assume it's from either SBB or Ray, neither of whom likely have any experience with actual weddings. It's like saying the regular, deluxe, or premium car washes are "creative expression". When you buy a wedding cake, you basically look at the types of cakes the baker makes and choose one, and if anyone's "creative expression" is involved, it's the person buying the cake. It's not like you walk into a bakery and say "I need a cake for my wedding, let the icing be your canvas!".
   182. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5640193)
I wouldn't vote for either a Nixon or a Cuomo unless Cuomo's father came back to life, but has Alan Dershowitz ever influenced a single vote anywhere?

I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet on one...


I doubt it. Dilbert got to him long before he was even aware of Dershowitz's existence.
   183. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5640194)

Yeah it's like reallllly close. I thought that there was clear proof but at the very least they are almost equally southern. I looked at Wikipedia too after posting that and realized that it is not as clear cut as I thought. As a kid my dad used to always say it but he was apparently wrong.


Wiki has a page that lists the extreme points of each state and territory.
   184. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5640196)
This is basically bullshit. I assume it's from either SBB or Ray, neither of whom likely have any experience with actual weddings. It's like saying the regular, deluxe, or premium car washes are "creative expression". When you buy a wedding cake, you basically look at the types of cakes the baker makes and choose one, and if anyone's "creative expression" is involved, it's the person buying the cake. It's not like you walk into a bakery and say "I need a cake for my wedding, let the icing be your canvas!".

We were so close. . .
   185. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5640197)
Little to nothing in recent times has been as authoritarian as the cake baker bankruptcy.

A consumer-led boycott is the same as firing the people in the justice department who are investigating you?

I mean, who would have thought that ticking off homosexual customers would be a bad move in the wedding planning industry? Most consumer-led boycotts are toothless and don't amount to anything, but this one is a bit obvious. Some people just weren't using their heads.
You misunderstand the facts. Sweet Cakes didn't go under because of a consumer-led boycott; it went under because the government fined it $130K because the gay couple filed a complaint against it.
   186. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5640198)
Miami is west of Pittsburgh
   187. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5640199)

Weller is impossible to find in stores in the Tri State area unless you're willing to pay secondary prices. Hard pass. Buffalo Trace is still readily available, but there are plenty of other bourbons in its price range that I prefer, so whatever. Blanton's is often available, but it's just cromulent IMO* and not a good value even at MSRP. Bourbon distribution really varies wildly from region to region.


Had to reorder Weller's special reserve the other week but they are out and as kind of a peace offering they sent a Weller 12 yr and an Old Weller Antique. The BT guys didn't seem too happy that people compare Weller 12yr favorably to Pappy. Was really dismissive of that.
   188. PepTech Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5640200)
Cape May is more southern than the northern most point of DC
Yeah, the most that can be said is that a smidge of DC is north of a smidge of NJ. The White House, for example, appears to be clear of Cape May. Still a very cool geography fact.

I remember learning that Atlanta is west of Detroit at some point in my youth, and for some reason that blew my mind; Seattle is also comfortably north of Quebec City. Alaska being the Easternmost state is good for the occasional bar trivia.

ETA: I forgot, Atlanta is also west of the entire continent of South America.
   189. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5640201)
Wiki has a page that lists the extreme points of each state and territory.


Ahh I see! He was partially right then. Still pretty astounding.
   190. The Good Face Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5640202)
Correct-a-mundo, though minor quibble that BF hasn't done much in that department.


Brown-Forman produces the delightful Jack Daniels Single Barrel Barrel Proof (they could probably come up with a better name), which is to regular Jack Daniels as a Bengal tiger is to a housecat. They also produce Old Forester 1920 Prohibition Style, which clocks in at a robust and flavorful 115 proof. Both outstanding products and great ambassadors for their brands.

While in some respects Makers is handcuffed, their style has always been to have barrels as near to uniform as possible, but the single barrel/barrel proof trend has been going on long enough that they really should have caught up by now.


I'm fine with producers batching their product. Some of the best barrel proof bourbons on the market are batched, like Elijah Craig Barrel Proof, Stagg Jr. or the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection (not all barrel proofed, but still). Maker's problem is that they can't seem to transcend mediocrity with their current approach.
   191. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5640203)
Never had their cask strength. Hell, I didn't even know they had one. On a side note the market for Maker's 46 seems to be growing.
So now that I'm trying to drink more bourbon, I've had a fair amount of a few different bottles, and I'd rank them as follows:
1) Woodford - just the regular stuff
2) Bulleit Barrel Strength
3) Four Roses Single Barrel
4) Hudson Baby Bourbon

I've also had some of my bottle of Woodford Personal Selection, but since it's not otherwise available on a regular basis, it's not fair to rank with the others, but it would probably be toward the top. All have been good, nothing that I wouldn't want more of. The Hudson (100% New York corn bill) is ok, but kind of earthy. First couple sips almost have a dirt flavor, and a little pricey. The Bulleit is really nice, but at that proof, I haven't taken down the whole bottle yet. If I had to pick a go to at this point it would be the Woodford, but I need to keep experimenting. Anything else in that $25-$45 range I should try? I'm hesitant to go to far below that price point until I really develop a taste. Trying to keep it smooth for now, and I'm afraid to go after anything that may be too harsh.
   192. BDC Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5640205)
One thing that still disconcerts me now and then, even after almost 40 years of traveling there, is the alignment of North America and Europe. Practically every point in Texas, for instance, is south of the entirety of Europe: the aforementioned Perico, up in the Panhandle, is just barely north of Gibraltar.

And so, Paris is well north of Duluth, and as I believe Omineca Greg pointed out awhile back, much of Scandinavia is at his latitude or further north.
   193. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5640206)
The cake is creative expression, specially created at request.

This is basically bullshit. I assume it's from either SBB or Ray, neither of whom likely have any experience with actual weddings. It's like saying the regular, deluxe, or premium car washes are "creative expression". When you buy a wedding cake, you basically look at the types of cakes the baker makes and choose one, and if anyone's "creative expression" is involved, it's the person buying the cake. It's not like you walk into a bakery and say "I need a cake for my wedding, let the icing be your canvas!".

Is that always the case? I have a hard time remembering the details of these wedding cake cases and they all kind of run together in my mind, but are you saying that there's no such thing as a couple going into a bakery and requesting a custom-designed topping for a wedding cake?

Here's a splitting hairs distinction I can see someone making: Refusing to sell a wedding cake with two generic grooms on the top;** and being willing to sell that sort of a cake, but refusing to create a custom cake for a same-sex couple, with two individually created grooms. One can argue the artistic input of the latter cake, but it's hard to see how much artistry there'd be in assembling the former.

And which of these two scenarios was at issue in these court cases?

** Assuming these generic figures exist, and assuming the baker buys them in bride-groom pairs, it seems he could simply take the grooms from two of these pairs for the gay couple's cake and save the two brides for a lesbian wedding.
   194. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5640207)
Anything else in that $25-$45 range I should try? I'm hesitant to go to far below that price point until I really develop a taste.

Based on those? How about Michters and 1792? Have your tried Knob Creek Single Barrel?
   195. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5640208)
As in if you only go south and south alone you'll hit it? No that won't happen. There is no part of NJ that is directly south of DC.

No, as in is there any point in NJ that can be measured by latitude as south of the southernmost point of Washington DC.
   196. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5640210)
So none of the usual suspects wanted to comment on the article I posted yesterday regarding the GOP pining its Senate hopes on GOP President Trump (so I guess they are OK with it, since they have not disavowed the strategy, which it seems is how it works), so anyway we have another possible GOP Senate situation folks can comment on (especially you GOP types).

GOP fears another potential electoral disaster

OK, so you are wondering ... which sort of "another electoral disaster"? There are options to choose from, but I already narrowed it down to the Senate so ...

National Republicans — on the heels of the Roy Moore and Rick Saccone debacles — worry they’re staring down their latest potential midterm election fiasco: coal baron and recent federal prisoner Don Blankenship.

With Blankenship skyrocketing in the West Virginia Republican Senate primary and blanketing the airwaves with ads assailing his fractured field of rivals as career politicians, senior party officials are wrestling with how, or even whether, to intervene. Many of them are convinced that Blankenship, who served a one-year sentence after the deadly 2010 explosion at his Upper Big Branch Mine, would be a surefire loser against Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin — and potentially become a national stain for the party.

The discussions have intensified over the past few weeks. During separate meetings with the National Republican Senatorial Committee, aides to Blankenship’s two primary opponents, Rep. Evan Jenkins and state Attorney General Patrick Morrisey, pointed to Blankenship’s traction and questioned what could be done to stop him. The Senate GOP campaign arm, which heard out the appeals, recently commissioned a survey to gauge the coal king’s electoral strength and determine his staying power in the race.


I admit, I am troubled by the Specter of the national GOP interfering in a local race, but I hear national parties do that sometimes. I think the GOP should ask their leader, President Trump, which candidate he prefers. I am told he has nonpareil political skills after all.
   197. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5640212)
Sweet Cakes didn't go under because of a consumer-led boycott; it went under because the government fined it $130K because the gay couple filed a complaint against it.

Did I not read they had enough donated to cover all of this and their legal fees both?
   198. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5640213)
Is that always the case? I have a hard time remembering the details of these wedding cake cases and they all kind of run together in my mind, but are you saying that there's no such thing as a couple going into a bakery and requesting a custom-designed topping for a wedding cake?
Maybe with grooms cakes, which is apparently a tradition in parts of the country in which I have never lived. But even then, who's creative expression are we talking about? I'm guessing many people don't walk in say "I have no idea what I want, so create your own art from scratch". My guess is that even in custom designed cakes, most of the creativity is coming from the person requesting the case, while the baker is more responsible for the skill of execution.
   199. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5640214)
they could, and did, easily get a comparable cake elsewhere.
In Libertopia, it's perfectly acceptable to ban blacks, muslims, and gays from your restaurant so long as the restaurant next door does not.
   200. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:13 AM (#5640215)
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