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Monday, March 19, 2018

OTP 2018 March 19: Spending bill could quash Minor League Baseball players’ wage claims

A massive government spending bill that Congress is expected to consider this week could include a provision exempting Minor League Baseball players from federal labor laws, according to three congressional officials familiar with the talks.

The exemption would represent the culmination of more than two years of lobbying by Major League Baseball, which has sought to preempt a spate of lawsuits that have been filed by minor leaguers alleging they have been illegally underpaid.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 19, 2018 at 07:25 AM | 2016 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: minor league pay, minor leagues, off topic, owners, politics

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   201. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5640216)
124

GOP candidate is a real, actual Nazi


"Nothin' worse than an Illinois Nazi." -- obligatory Blues Brothers quote
   202. The Good Face Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5640217)
1) Woodford - just the regular stuff
2) Bulleit Barrel Strength
3) Four Roses Single Barrel
4) Hudson Baby Bourbon


1. Cromulent bourbon. Everyone should try it at least once.
2. Good stuff, very hot. Not ideal for beginners, but I'm a fan. Great nose.
3. Excellent bourbon, one of the very best in its price range.
4. Garbage. A triumph of marketing over quality.

Anything else in that $25-$45 range I should try? I'm hesitant to go to far below that price point until I really develop a taste. Trying to keep it smooth for now, and I'm afraid to go after anything that may be too harsh.


Buffalo Trace. Elijah Craig (regular, not the barrel proof). Henry McKenna Bottled in Bond. Wild Turkey 101. Knob Creek. All easily available and within that price range. The 101 is a little spicier and rougher than the others, but I like its boldness and you can't beat the price.
   203. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5640218)
In Libertopia, it's perfectly acceptable to ban blacks, muslims, and gays from your restaurant so long as the restaurant next door does not.


It's Libertopia, the Cake Elves will make you one if you leave them an offering of cocaine and Ayn Rand comic books.
   204. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5640219)
you fail at flipping
   205. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5640221)
130

Guess how many you've whipped out your favorite binkie in...


Ew!
   206. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5640224)
132


Concede the error of your ways and perhaps that will change. Until then, your claims of "authoritarianism" aimed at anyone else are laughable. Little to nothing in recent times has been as authoritarian as the cake baker bankruptcy


Admit it, Bear: you're just like everybody else.

If you agree with a law, it's "good government."
If you don't, it's "authoritarianism."
   207. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5640227)
And so, Paris is well north of Duluth, and as I believe Omineca Greg pointed out awhile back, much of Scandinavia is at his latitude or further north.


Indeed, when I travelled to London, it was the farthest north I'd been in my life. Previously, Moose Factory was the farthest north I'd ever been.
   208. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:30 AM (#5640229)
154

There is a small section of New Jersey that is inexplicably south of DC


Today, Hee-Haw salutes Cape May, New Jersey, population three thousand, six hundred and seven!

SAAAAAA-LUTE!
   209. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5640230)
I always wanted to ride the Cape May/Lewes ferry.
   210. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5640231)
Gay Cakes should have filed for an NEA grant.

   211. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5640232)
In Libertopia, it's perfectly acceptable to ban blacks, muslims, and gays from your restaurant so long as the restaurant next door does not.

Actually there's not even that provision. Libertopians see nothing wrong** with a situation where every restaurant in the country denies service to entire categories of people, as long as the government doesn't mandate these exclusions. They thought that the entire issue of restaurant segregation in the South was resolved when the southern states repealed their Jim Crow laws, even if it left from 95% to 100% of the restaurants in those states as segregated as they'd ever been.

** Meaning nothing that should be against the law
   212. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5640233)
There is a small section of New Jersey that is inexplicably south of DC
Los Angeles is east of Reno (fixed). For a long time, even after I'd gone to law school, I had never been east of Detroit. I took a business trip to Atlanta, which I figured was my new record, Georgia being an eastern seabord state and all, but nope, turns out Detroit is east of Atlanta.
   213. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5640234)
When you buy a wedding cake, you basically look at the types of cakes the baker makes and choose one,


When you buy a NYT, you basically look at the editions the publishers publish and choose one. When you buy a painting, you basically look at the types of painting the painter paints and choose one. When you go to a movie, you basically look at the types of movies the theater is showing and choose one.

Etc, etc.
   214. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5640236)
Is that always the case? I have a hard time remembering the details of these wedding cake cases and they all kind of run together in my mind, but are you saying that there's no such thing as a couple going into a bakery and requesting a custom-designed topping for a wedding cake?


Couples. Do. This. All. The. Time.
   215. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5640237)
Well the GOP Senate reelection campaign is relying on President Trump (so we know that base is covered!), but what about the House districts? Good question.

GOP Losing Ground In Republican-Held Districts

First Read: “Our latest NBC/WSJ poll finds Democrats with a 10-point lead in congressional preference, with Dems holding the advantage in enthusiasm and among independents, and with college-educated white women breaking heavily against the GOP. But there’s another ominous sign for Republicans in our poll: They’re losing ground on the congressional-preference question in GOP-held congressional districts.”


I think the GOP House needs to get on board the Trump Train ASAP!

Insiders See Democratic House Gains of 30-45 seats
Seven and a half months before the midterm elections, the combination of attitudinal and behavioral evidence leads to a single conclusion: The Democrats are very likely to win control of the House in November.

Just as important, Republican and Democratic campaign strategists also agree that an electoral wave has already formed. The attitudinal evidence begins with national polling.


Again I say, only GOP President Trump and his amazing seven dimensional political skill at winning (so much winning), can save the GOP.
   216. DavidFoss Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5640240)
Los Angeles is west of Reno

You mean east.

Reno, Fresno and Santa Barbara are all around the same meridian. 119 degrees and 42 to 49 minutes West.

The coast between LA and SB is east-west, so LA itself is back at 118 and 15' W.
   217. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5640241)
My guess is that even in custom designed cakes, most of the creativity is coming from the person requesting the case, while the baker is more responsible for the skill of execution.


Even if true -- it isn't -- the same would be the case if the person requesting the cake wanted it for a KKK rally. Lesbian couples do not have a "right" to force a baker to provide them with a cake for a KKK rally and the idea that they do is preposterous. From which it follows as night follows day that they do not have a right to force a baker to provide them one for a wedding. If the government requires the baker to create for the gay wedding, but not for the KKK rally, the government is discriminating based on viewpoint -- a fundamental violation of the First Amendment.

So the authoritarians here are both: (1) compelling speech from the unwilling; and (2) discriminating against certain speech based on viewpoint. It doesn't get much worse from a 1A standpoint; it's unalloyed authoritarianism.
   218. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5640243)

In Libertopia, it's perfectly acceptable to ban blacks, muslims, and gays from your restaurant so long as the restaurant next door does not.
I don't know what you mean by "acceptable." In Libertopia, it's legal. That doesn't mean anyone has to approve of it (which is how I would define "perfectly acceptable"). Or, let's put it a different way: in libertopia, it's unacceptable for the government to compel a private business to do business with someone. (Regardless of what other businesses are doing.) People are free to criticize, denounce, or boycott such a restaurant, of course.
   219. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5640244)
You mean east.
Yep. Miscommunication between brain and fingers.
   220. DavidFoss Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5640245)
Again I say, only GOP President Trump and his amazing seven dimensional political skill at winning (so much winning), can save the GOP.

To be fair, 7.5 months is a very long time. Lots of news will happen between now and then. Campaigning doesn't even ramp up until after labor day. Today's snapshot does indeed look severe, but nobody should be counting their chickens this early.
   221. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5640246)
ibertopians see nothing wrong** with a situation where every restaurant in the country denies service to entire categories of people, as long as the government doesn't mandate these exclusions.


"Libertopians" and actual liberals. Freedom of speech and association are cherished actual liberal ideals. See, e.g., the NH license plate case and the Skokie marching case (*) from just before The Peak.

They still are cherished actual liberal ideals; it's just that actual liberalism has been hijacked in great measure by modern liberalism.

(*) Both Supreme Court.
   222. Morty Causa Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5640247)
Is that always the case? I have a hard time remembering the details of these wedding cake cases and they all kind of run together in my mind, but are you saying that there's no such thing as a couple going into a bakery and requesting a custom-designed topping for a wedding cake?

Couples. Do. This. All. The. Time.

But that ain't the issue in the case, is it? The issue is the baker can't refuse to do that which he would do without objection if it weren't for the special status of the couple.
   223. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5640249)
So, according to Ray, sugar, and perhaps others, Hillary personally colluded with the Russians because the firm her campaign hired to do oppo research on Trump, hired a guy who got some of his information from people in the Russian government.*So by that logic, Trump personally violated the privacy of millions of Facebook users because the firm his campaign hired to gather data on voter trends took information from Facebook they weren’t authorized to have.

So what say you? Did Trump personally violate the privacy rights of millions of Americans or not?

* and in one of his wackiest comments ever, sugar claimed Hillary was personally responsibl3 for the poisoning of the Russian spy and his daughter in England. So I can assume he will hold Trump personally responsible for anything bad that might happen to any Facebook user as a result of this gross breach of privacy.
   224. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5640250)
But that ain't the issue in the case, is it?


It is, as it is in the Colorado case of similar import. Neither was a "sale from the shelf" case.
   225. BDC Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5640251)
I always wanted to ride the Cape May/Lewes ferry

Heh – my father, who lived the last 45 years of his life in South Jersey, always wanted to do that, too. But he never had a very compelling reason to do so. It was only a little while before his death, when he was getting more and more physically disabled, that he finally said what the heck, and got somebody to drive him to Cape May and then went back and forth on the ferry. He said it was completely boring as well as a little hot and smelly; and more than kind of pointless; but he did get to cross it off his bucket list :)
   226. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5640253)
So by that logic, Trump personally violated the privacy of millions of Facebook users because the firm his campaign hired to gather data on voter trends took information from Facebook they weren’t authorized to have.


No, "by that logic," Trump colluded with Cambridge.
   227. BDC Posted: March 20, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5640255)
Meanwhile, I have been scouring overseas news in hopes of finding a story more interesting than the gay cake bakers. But it is a slow season.

Brexit negotiations are apparently going well except for the Irish question – you might say that the entire history of Ireland has gone well except for the Irish question.

A "Hamburger Haven" is opening near a swimming pool in West Reykjavík. This comes at a welcome moment because they are having a spring heatwave in Iceland, all the way up to 10 degrees Celsius in the capital and 3 above in the north.

Fire departments have tested an Autobahn tunnel in Hamburg and pronounced it safe. (This is a tunnel that will have parkland planted above it, so that it hides the road under a greenbelt.)
   228. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5640256)

No, "by that logic," Trump colluded with Cambridge.


...to violate the law. I believe that is called conspiracy. And with these new revelations about Cambridge floating a scheme of bribery and blackmail, we can add that to the list of charges against Trump. If Hillary is responsible for everything Fusion did, Trump is responsible for everything Cambridge did.
   229. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5640257)
Insiders See Democratic House Gains of 30-45 seats


I'm sticking with my prediction that the Dems win the House... but I'd consider +30 a bit a of disappointment. It would still beat the average for a midterm in the first year of an administration, and of course - be enough to flip the House (and most importantly, give the various Committee Chairs who basically serve as Trump Legal Defense Team adjuncts their walking papers in favor of new chairs who would actually exercise their oversight authority), but I'd still like to see the higher end of that range.

That's an irrationally exuberant expectation, I'll grant - 30-35 seats is probably realistic... but unlike some folks, I'm loathe to play the stupid expectations game.
   230. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5640259)
223

So by that logic, Trump personally violated the privacy of millions of Facebook users because the firm his campaign hired to gather data on voter trends took information from Facebook they weren’t authorized to have.

So what say you? Did Trump personally violate the privacy rights of millions of Americans or not?


226

No, "by that logic," Trump colluded with Cambridge.


228

...to violate the law. I believe that is called conspiracy. And with these new revelations about Cambridge floating a scheme of bribery and blackmail, we can add that to the list of charges against Trump. If Hillary is responsible for everything Fusion did, Trump is responsible for everything Cambridge did.



Wait! Wait, guys! My popcorn's not ready yet and I don't wanna miss anything!
   231. bunyon Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5640263)
Indeed, when I travelled to London, it was the farthest north I'd been in my life. Previously, Moose Factory was the farthest north I'd ever been.

I have been as far north as the arctic circle in Iceland (you have to ferry to an island then walk to the northern tip of that island). I have been within a couple miles of the southern most point of continental South America (a little more than 54 degrees south).

I was at these two points less than six months apart.

It is, in many ways, a miraculous time to be alive.
   232. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5640264)

Is that always the case? I have a hard time remembering the details of these wedding cake cases and they all kind of run together in my mind, but are you saying that there's no such thing as a couple going into a bakery and requesting a custom-designed topping for a wedding cake?
It's not always the case, and it's not just about toppers. In the Colorado case currently before the Supreme Court, a bunch of cake bakers filed an amicus brief, saying, "We don't care how you decide this case, but we just don't want the Supreme Court treating us like little girls with EasyBake ovens; we're artists, dammit." (It's an illustrated brief showing the art sometimes involved in designing such cakes.)

And which of these two scenarios was at issue in these court cases?
Different cases are different. In the Colorado one before the Supreme Court, they never got as far as discussing what kind of cake they'd get. It was basically, "We want you to design a gay wedding cake," and they said "We don't do that," and they walked out w/o further discussion. The bakers there have said that if the couple had wanted something off the shelf they'd have sold it.
   233. Traderdave Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5640266)

Brown-Forman produces the delightful Jack Daniels Single Barrel Barrel Proof (they could probably come up with a better name), which is to regular Jack Daniels as a Bengal tiger is to a housecat. They also produce Old Forester 1920 Prohibition Style, which clocks in at a robust and flavorful 115 proof. Both outstanding products and great ambassadors for their brands.


I have found Jack single barrel to have the widest bottle variance of any SB. I've sampled about half a dozen, all wildly different, 2 or 3 of them were absolute piss, unfit even to mix with Coke. The others were sublime, and only one had the recognizable Jack Daniels profile. It shows you what an achievement their blending is to make a consistent product in the black label, but I've avoided actually buying a bottle because of the extreme variance I've experienced.

   234. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:27 PM (#5640271)
Speaking of Trump and the Senate, he's no Steve Bannon. He demands that senators are personally nice to him, but he couldn't care less about ideology or swamp-draining or anything. He has been endorsing GOP establishment candidates in primary season, at the expense of challengers who are positioning themselves as Trumpkins.
   235. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5640273)
If Hillary is responsible for everything Fusion did, Trump is responsible for everything Cambridge did.


The collusion was part and parcel of the task for which Hillary hired Fusion. So no.

And there's no "oppo research" exception to "collusion," much as you and yours want to JUANABOUT it.
   236. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5640274)
Meanwhile, I have been scouring overseas news in hopes of finding a story more interesting than the gay cake bakers. But it is a slow season.


How could you miss such an easy layup? Sheesh.

Meghan & Harry’s Wedding Cake Flavor Will Break Tradition, But Is Perfect For A Spring Celebration

I think we can all acknowledge the universally-known fact that the only rumors worth spreading in this world are dessert-related (looking at you, rumors about the Crystal Ball Frappuccino at Starbucks that started circulating last night). The hottest dish at the end of 2017 was the rumor that Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's wedding cake flavor would be banana — a slight break from tradition, but not an entirely unwelcome one. But, alas, it turns out the wedding cake whisperers were wrong, as the Kensington Palace just tweeted an announcement that Meghan and Harry's wedding cake flavor will be lemon elderflower, and will be baked by Claire Ptak, the designer behind Violet Cakes and owner of the popular London-based Violet Bakery.

"I can't tell you how delighted I am to be chosen to make Prince Harry and Ms. Markle's wedding cake," said Ptak in a statement in a Kensington Royal press release. "Knowing that they really share the same values as I do about food provenance, sustainability, seasonality and most importantly flavour, makes this the most exciting event to be a part of."
   237. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5640275)

4) Hudson Baby Bourbon




4. Garbage. A triumph of marketing over quality.


I am glad to see others offering this view. Corn shouldn't cost so much.
   238. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5640277)
Well, it's pretty clear that the authoritarians on the board would like to divert attention from their authoritarianism, so that they have a clear canvas to make their rote recitations of Trump's "authoritarianism."

But the rest of us, of course, are under no obligation to play along.
   239. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5640278)
We must always listen to Wall Street. They are the one and only true judge of a President (Clinton and Obama, of course, excepted).

Trade war threat is now Wall Street's top economic fear, survey says

Sparked by the Trump administration's recent tariffs, nearly three-quarters of respondents to the CNBC Fed Survey say they are now worried about a trade war.

Protectionism tops the list of worries on Wall Street, the survey shows, far outpacing concerns over inflation, terrorism and even the Fed itself.

"The market has shifted from a fear of a monetary policy misstep, tightening too aggressively, to a trade policy mistake, escalating into a trade war with China," Art Hogan, chief market strategist at B. Riley FBR, wrote in his response to the survey. "The balance of risk for equities has moved from the Fed to the White House."
   240. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5640280)
Well, it's pretty clear that the authoritarians on the board would like to divert attention from their authoritarianism


You have a funny way of diverting attention from authoritarianism, but sure divert away stretchy, divert away!
   241. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5640282)
You have a funny way of diverting attention from authoritarianism, but sure divert away stretchy, divert away!


No authoritarian, no authoritarian, you're the authoritarian!!
   242. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5640283)
And which of these two scenarios was at issue in these court cases?

Different cases are different. In the Colorado one before the Supreme Court, they never got as far as discussing what kind of cake they'd get. It was basically, "We want you to design a gay wedding cake," and they said "We don't do that," and they walked out w/o further discussion. The bakers there have said that if the couple had wanted something off the shelf they'd have sold it.


Thanks for the info, but what could the Colorado bakers have had off the shelf that would've been appropriate for a specifically gay wedding? Would they have offered to put two pre-made grooms on top of a generic wedding cake? That hardly would have qualified as artistry, and it's too bad that the couple didn't ask the baker that followup question, if only to further clarify the issue.
   243. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5640284)
Thanks for the info, but what could the Colorado bakers have had off the shelf that would've been appropriate for a specifically gay wedding?


Fruitcake?
   244. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5640285)
Heh – my father, who lived the last 45 years of his life in South Jersey, always wanted to do that, too. But he never had a very compelling reason to do so. It was only a little while before his death, when he was getting more and more physically disabled, that he finally said what the heck, and got somebody to drive him to Cape May and then went back and forth on the ferry. He said it was completely boring as well as a little hot and smelly; and more than kind of pointless; but he did get to cross it off his bucket list :)


That's a nice story! I'm glad your dad got to experience that even if it was boring. I'm sure I would feel the same way but it just seems like something someone from New Jersey should do.
   245. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5640289)
No authoritarian, no authoritarian, you're the authoritarian!!


By your own admission and rules we are both authoritarians. I mean I get your need to channel your hero, but you can do better stretchy, you will do better. Reach down deep and go for it!
   246. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:47 PM (#5640290)
and it's too bad that the couple didn't ask the baker that followup question, if only to further clarify the issue.


They didn't ask because they're extremists.

But even that understates it. The couple didn't ask the baker that followup question, because "the couple" wasn't in the store. Only one of them was. Yet the other insisted that she had suffered emotional harm damages, and the authoritarians at the Oregon Department of Labor agreed.

Of course, if the person who was there, came home and reported to the second one that "The guy said he wouldn't bake our cake," and that caused the second one emotional harm there would be no analytical difference between that and one of them coming in from the living room to the bedroom and saying, "Did you see the Oregonian today? It published an op-ed against gay marriage." The idea that a gay person who heard that should be entitled to emotional harm damages is beyond preposterous -- and again shows how intimately free speech is involved. The "damages" were suffered by the second person solely as a result of the first reporting the cake baker's speech.
   247. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5640291)
By your own admission and rules we are both authoritarians. I mean I get your need to channel your hero


Me in #94?

I don't think he copies me because I'm his hero, I think he copies me because I'm way cooler than he could ever be. As lame as lawyers are, fake lawyers are absolutely pathetic.
   248. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5640292)
I'm sticking with my prediction that the Dems win the House... but I'd consider +30 a bit a of disappointment. It would still beat the average for a midterm in the first year of an administration, and of course - be enough to flip the House (and most importantly, give the various Committee Chairs who basically serve as Trump Legal Defense Team adjuncts their walking papers in favor of new chairs who would actually exercise their oversight authority), but I'd still like to see the higher end of that range.


I am still more focused - when considering how successful or not the upcoming election is - with looking down ballot at the state and local elections. Democrats need to run up big numbers down ballot in preparation for the upcoming census and redistricting IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I want the House and I'll take the Senate, but past that the States are what will make or break this cycle from a long term perspective. Extra seats after winning the House won't move the needle that much. Great? Sure, but still.
   249. dlf Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:50 PM (#5640293)
In the Colorado case currently before the Supreme Court, a bunch of cake bakers filed an amicus brief, saying, "We don't care how you decide this case, but we just don't want the Supreme Court treating us like little girls with EasyBake ovens; we're artists, dammit."


I do find it a funny coincidence that the name of the firm filing the brief is Baker Botts.
   250. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5640296)
Me in #94?


Heh. I was referring to his oft stated support for the Government to FORCE businesses to serve African Americans. Clearly that is at least as authoritarian and the governmental force used to FORCE bakers to bake Gay Wedding Cakes. The humanity.

Oh sure he wants to use special pleading to pretend the government forcing one group of businesses to sell to one group of disfavored customers is like totally different than the government forcing a different group of businesses to sell to a different group of disfavored customers, but come on! Even stretchy doesn't belive that.
   251. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5640298)
Clearly that is at least as authoritarian and the governmental force used to FORCE bakers to bake Gay Wedding Cakes.


LOL. Bitter Mouse is still hearing the voices in his head, and not the sane voices telling him that the cake baking case involved far more than just cake baking.
   252. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5640299)
Even stretchy doesn't believe that.
It doesn't seem that stretchy "believes" anything in the classic sense; he'll say the sky is orange, then believe he JUST SAID the sky is blue.

   253. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5640300)
More "globalist" betrayal of the Modern GOP? Koch Network Urges Trump to Take Immigration Deal

Politico: “The Koch network has a rare message for President Trump: Take the Democrats’ immigration deal. A trio of organizations supported by Charles and David Koch is urging Trump to accept congressional Democrats’ weekend offer, which would deliver $25 billion for a border wall and security in exchange for a pathway to citizenship for 1.8 million young immigrants, according to officials in the Koch network.”



   254. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5640302)
It doesn't seem that stretchy "believes" anything in the classic sense


Comes from living under a bridge I suspect.
   255. Srul Itza Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:00 PM (#5640305)
Farthest North -- Tuktoyuktuk
Farthest South -- Tongariro National Park, New Zealand
Farthest East and West -- I have circumnavigated three times.
   256. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:02 PM (#5640306)
Republicans scramble to release spending bill as government shutdown deadline nears

While mocking various posters and chatting about the Royal Wedding Cake is grand and all, but the spending bill is a bit more critical. I wonder if the GOP will manage to get its ducks in a row.

Republicans hope to release the details of a spending bill Tuesday after delays that raised the risk of missing a Friday deadline to fund the government.

Congress aims to pass its $1.3 trillion spending plan by midnight Friday or risk seeing the government's spending authority lapse for the third time this year. But snags in the negotiations, rules in both the House and Senate, and a snowstorm expected to hit Washington on Wednesday all complicate the voting timeline.

House Republican leaders aim to release the bill by midnight Tuesday and vote on it by Thursday afternoon, members leaving a conference meeting Tuesday morning told CNBC. That timeline leaves a tight window for passage, and the potential for issues, in both the House and Senate.


Fortunately they never, ever, screw up when they rush to pass a bill without actually reading and understanding it. Nope that never has happened.
   257. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5640308)
This article amused me, and there is some good data in it - Everyone loves nurses and hates Mitch McConnell

My favorite part, though, is a slightly random chart at the end of the paper by Bartels (a professor at Vanderbilt University). It plots how Democrats evaluate various groups on the x-axis and how Republicans evaluate them on the y-axis. It lets you see comparisons such as: Democrats like the Republican Party more than they like Donald Trump (though they dislike both), but Republicans like Trump more than they like the GOP.


My emphasis. Party of Trump indeed, and they are welcome to have him forevermore.
   258. BDC Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:06 PM (#5640309)
Farthest North -- Tuktoyuktuk
Farthest South -- Tongariro National Park, New Zealand
Farthest East and West -- I have circumnavigated three times


I have not been around the world, so I can still identify a farthest west (Cape Mendocino) and east (Budapest) relative to where I've spent most of my life.

My farthest north is the Hvalfjörður in Iceland; south, Canaima in Venezuela.

I would like to see the north of Iceland, and would like to get at least as far east in Europe as Tallinn, but nothing's calling me south- or westwards.


   259. The Good Face Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:06 PM (#5640310)
I have found Jack single barrel to have the widest bottle variance of any SB. I've sampled about half a dozen, all wildly different, 2 or 3 of them were absolute piss, unfit even to mix with Coke. The others were sublime, and only one had the recognizable Jack Daniels profile. It shows you what an achievement their blending is to make a consistent product in the black label, but I've avoided actually buying a bottle because of the extreme variance I've experienced.


That's a shame. I've probably bought ~6 bottles and while there was variance, every single one ranged from good to great. Or were you talking about the regular single barrel, not the barrel proof? Because I've found the regular single barrel to be... ok. Certainly not worth the money when there are so many superior options available for less.
   260. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5640311)
Actually in the cake baking case, a closer review of the decision makes it clear that the woman's mother really caused the emotional distress by lying to her daughter about what the merchant told her. The merchant said he didn't want to bake a cake; that was enough to make Lesbian #1 march out. Mother chases her down, they get in car. Mother says, "Let's go somewhere else and get a cake." Mother takes side detour to speak again herself with merchant, merchant (allegedly) cites Leviticus (barf), mother lies to Lesbian #1 about what merchant said -- telling Lesbian #1 that merchant had called both her and her children an abomination, which he did not do.

So literally the only thing the merchant said to either of them was saying to one of them that he wouldn't do the cake. That's it. The rest is the lesbian couple and the mother talking amongst themselves about it and exaggerating.

"Authoritarian" fits it quite well indeed. As does "arbitrary and capricious." And he was clearly fined and bankrupted for his speech.
   261. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:07 PM (#5640312)
For those of you Luddites who question the value of Twitter, post your apologies here.
   262. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5640314)
Farthest North -- Tuktoyuktuk
Farthest South -- Tongariro National Park, New Zealand
Farthest East and West -- I have circumnavigated three times.


I haven’t been west of the west coast of O’ahu, but I have been to the westernmost point in North America that one can reach by car, Anchor Point, AK.

Furthest north. Fairbanks, AK
furthest south Lima, Peru
Furthest east. East Berlin, back when it was still a thing.

Kind of unremarkable really.

   263. Traderdave Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5640315)

Or were you talking about the regular single barrel, not the barrel proof?


Regular SB. The barrel proof is surprisingly hard to find in these parts.

One thing that I've really enjoyed in recent months has been Dickel's barrel select stuff. K&L and Cask, two local stores, have made some world class picks. Check it out if you see it.
   264. BDC Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5640316)
To look at an discrimination case that isn't just the same goddam cake again, here's one involving disabled access from California:

Disability Rights Advocates, on behalf of the Independent Living Resource Center and two people who use wheelchairs, filed a class-action lawsuit today against Lyft. The plaintiffs allege the ride-hailing company discriminates against people who use wheelchairs by not making available wheelchair-accessible cars in the San Francisco Bay Area.

The case, filed in Alameda County Superior Court, alleges Lyft directly violates the law by not providing an equal and accessible transportation option to all. The suit specifically alleges Lyft is in violation of the Unruh Civil Rights Act, which guarantees people with disabilities are entitled to full and equal accommodations. The suit also alleges Lyft is in violation of the California Disabled Persons Act.

The plaintiffs do not seek money, but simply equal access to Lyft. Lyft’s main U.S. rival, Uber, also faces a number of lawsuits pertaining to the lack of services it offers to people with mobility disabilities. The DRA has filed similar suits against Uber in both New York and California.


What do people think? There are obviously specific legal aspects that are important to the success or failure of the suit, which we'd need specific experts to weigh in on. But generally about the "shoulds" of such cases: should a company like Lyft or Uber be required to guarantee disabled customers effectively equal access, at all times and in all places, to their service?
   265. BDC Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5640317)
Overall, my take on today's conversation is that this gay-cake-baking subthread drives strong men to drink.
   266. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5640319)
Overall, my take on today's conversation is that this gay-cake-baking subthread drives strong men to drink.


Only because you don't want to hear about modern liberal authoritarianism. But at least we use facts, as opposed to the TDS brigade.

Informing modern liberals of exactly the kind of thing their "principles" prescribe fits pretty snugly within the definition of "public service."
   267. DavidFoss Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:18 PM (#5640320)
Farthest North -- Tuktoyuktuk
Farthest South -- Tongariro National Park, New Zealand
Farthest East and West -- I have circumnavigated three times.


North & East - Cambridge, UK
West - Honolulu, HI or Kona, HI if you don't count airport-only layovers
South - St. Croix, VI
   268. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5640322)

Only because you don't want to hear about modern liberal authoritarianism.


We knew this would happen as soon as we let them bully the white man into serving food to negroes whether they wanted to or not.
   269. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5640323)
m. But at least we use facts, as opposed to the TDS brigade.


Facts like Hillary is responsible for everything Fusion did, as well as their employees and their employees employees, but Trump bears no responsibility for anything that Cambridge did on his behalf.
   270. The Good Face Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5640324)
One thing that I've really enjoyed in recent months has been Dickel's barrel select stuff. K&L and Cask, two local stores, have made some world class picks. Check it out if you see it.


Dickel is kind of a polarizing distiller because of that mineral, Flintstone's vitamin, kind of note it usually has, but I like their stuff. Never seen a private barrel offering from them, though I'd buy one if I did.
   271. BDC Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5640326)
Informing modern liberals of exactly the kind of thing their "principles" prescribe fits pretty snugly within the definition of "public service."

Here's my idea of a public service announcement.
   272. -- Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5640327)
Here's my idea of a public service announcement.


Like I said, it's not a surprise that you don't want to hear it. Authoritarianism is not pretty, in any guise. The easier way, though, is not to subscribe to principles that naturally lead directly to it.
   273. Traderdave Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5640329)

Dickel is kind of a polarizing distiller because of that mineral, Flintstone's vitamin, kind of note it usually has, but I like their stuff. Never seen a private barrel offering from them, though I'd buy one if I did.


You can probably get a K&L online & shipped.
   274. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:27 PM (#5640331)
What do people think?


I am not sure. It is an interesting question. The Lyft business model has some real interesting wrinkles to it. I think the future of driver-less cars will solve this problem, but that doesn't mean we get to ignore it now.
   275. BDC Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5640332)
One thing that's been fun for me is the farthest norths, because I've been so conscious of them. For a while the furthest north I'd been was in a specific bookstore in Copenhagen – even a specific aisle in the store. In Iceland, later, it was a hotel parking lot. I was driving, so the front seat of the north-facing car was my Farthest North, and walking back down towards the hotel was a southward retreat. I felt like Sir John Franklin, except for getting marooned and resorting to cannibalism.
   276. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:30 PM (#5640336)
I have found Jack single barrel to have the widest bottle variance of any SB. I've sampled about half a dozen, all wildly different, 2 or 3 of them were absolute piss, unfit even to mix with Coke. The others were sublime, and only one had the recognizable Jack Daniels profile. It shows you what an achievement their blending is to make a consistent product in the black label, but I've avoided actually buying a bottle because of the extreme variance I've experienced.

Funny you say that because I was going to say that for as much hype as single barrels get they are generally consistent when picking out barrels for a run and even year to year. Most single barrels don't vary greatly from bottle to bottle and so I always find it interesting coming across a "single barrel" of a specific Bourbon drinker.
   277. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5640339)
Hmm. Had to think a bit...

North: St Petersburg
South: Moorea
West: Kauai
East: Kushiro, on the eastern side of Hokkaido

Never circumnavigated, but I did travel by boat and train from Sapporo to Prague. Separately, flew from Seattle (through Paris) to Novosibirsk. So that's kinda covered every longitude.
   278. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:34 PM (#5640340)
should a company like Lyft or Uber be required to guarantee disabled customers effectively equal access, at all times and in all places, to their service?


Given that Lyft or Uber don't supply the cars, how could they guarantee equal access? Force their drivers to buy specific cars?

Lyft or Uber are the intermediary, and the Lyft or Uber phone app grants equal access. One of our many lawyers will chime in.
   279. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5640341)
My favorite part, though, is a slightly random chart at the end of the paper by Bartels (a professor at Vanderbilt University). It plots how Democrats evaluate various groups on the x-axis and how Republicans evaluate them on the y-axis. It lets you see comparisons such as: Democrats like the Republican Party more than they like Donald Trump (though they dislike both), but Republicans like Trump more than they like the GOP.


That makes about as much sense as saying you like the Chicago Cubs more than you like the 25 players who make up the National League team from Chicago.
   280. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:38 PM (#5640342)
What do people think? There are obviously specific legal aspects that are important to the success or failure of the suit, which we'd need specific experts to weigh in on. But generally about the "shoulds" of such cases: should a company like Lyft or Uber be required to guarantee disabled customers effectively equal access, at all times and in all places, to their service?

All the various disability acts have always presented a quandry for me. If we're going to have them then they should be applied equally to all businesses. To take it to my field why should a hotel get taxed and regulated up the wazoo but somebody using AirBnB to rent out space not have to jump through all the same hoops? If our hotel room has to have fire suppressant systems, and be ADA accessible, and have to pay regulatory fees to operate why shouldn't Joe Schmoe have to do that as well?
   281. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5640343)
Given that Lyft or Uber don't supply the cars, how could they guarantee equal access? Force their drivers to buy specific cars?

Lyft or Uber are the intermediary, and the Lyft or Uber phone app grants equal access. One of our many lawyers will chime in.


I'm sure that is what Lyft and Uber will argue much like that is what Napster and Pirate Bay have argued. How has that worked for those companies in the US?

   282. Traderdave Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5640344)
Funny you say that because I was going to say that for as much hype as single barrels get they are generally consistent when picking out barrels for a run and even year to year. Most single barrels don't vary greatly from bottle to bottle and so I always find it interesting coming across a "single barrel" of a specific Bourbon drinker.


Four Roses has some significant variance as well, but it's always good. Just different good.
   283. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5640346)
For those of you Luddites who question the value of Twitter, post your apologies here.


That is brilliant.
   284. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5640347)
I'm sure that is what Lyft and Uber will argue much like that is what Napster and Pirate Bay have argued. How has that worked for those companies in the US?


And if that happens, then the law is an ass, because the end result will not be the disabled getting access, but no one getting access, because it will kill the industry. Which I guess is a kind of equal access.
   285. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5640349)
I'm sure this is just one more part of Hillarygate, but I'll post it anyway:

Cambridge Analytica whistleblower to testify to House Democrats on Facebook data operation
The whistleblower who publicly revealed how Trump-affiliated data firm Cambridge Analytica used information mined from Facebook under false pretenses during the 2016 election cycle will give an interview to Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee as part of their investigation of Russian interference in the election, including possible ties to Donald Trump’s campaign.

A lawyer for Christopher Wylie confirmed Tuesday that Wylie plans to accept the invitation from the committee’s ranking Democrat, Rep. Adam B. Schiff (Calif.).

Schiff said Monday that panel Democrats want to talk to Wylie to determine where and how the Facebook data was stored and used, and whether others — including Russian operatives — had access to it.

“Indeed, it may be that through Cambridge Analytica, the Trump campaign made use of illegitimately-acquired data on millions of Americans to help sway the election,” Schiff said in a statement.

Democrats on the House panel vowed last week to continue to investigate Russian meddling in the 2016 campaign, despite the committee’s Republican leaders announcing that they had completed a draft report about the panel’s findings. The panel is expected to approve a final version of that report Thursday, although it will not be released publicly until the intelligence community reviews it and makes any necessary redactions.

House Democrats do not have independent power to subpoena witnesses to testify. But Wylie has been outspoken about how Cambridge Analytica — a company he helped build, according to a profile in the Guardian — planned to use the Facebook users’ data and an algorithm to build “psychographic” profiles that could be used to predict the political leanings of every potential American voter.

Facebook gave permission to University of Cambridge psychologist Aleksandr Kogan to access information on 270,000 users of the social media site to help build a quiz app called “thisisyourdigitallife.” But the app’s reach went much further, ultimately allowing Kogan to access data on 50 million users. The information was passed on to Cambridge Analytica and Wylie, breaking the terms struck with Facebook for access to the data. Facebook found out about the events in 2015, but was told that Cambridge Analytica, Wylie and Kogan had deleted the data. Several days ago, Facebook discovered that they had not.

Last year, the House Intelligence Committee spoke with Wylie’s former boss Alexander Nix — the chief executive of Cambridge Analytica — by videoconference, as Nix is located in London.

Schiff stressed in his invitation to Wylie that his accounts of Cambridge Analytica’s data operations “raise serious questions about the veracity of the testimony” Nix gave to the committee....
   286. Omineca Greg Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5640351)
When I was young I lived in a world of dreams
Of moods and myths and illusionary schemes
Though now I'm much more grown up
I fear that I must own up
To the fact that I'm in doubt of
What the modern cynics shout of

They say it's spring
This feeling light as a feather
They say this thing
This magic we share together
Came with the weather too

They say it's May
That's made me daft as a daisy
It's May, they say
That gave the whole world this crazy
Heavenly, hazy hue

I'm a lark on the wing
I'm the spark of a firefly's fling
Yet to me this must be
Something more than a seasonal thing

Could it be spring
Those bells that I can hear ringing
It may be spring
But when the robins stop singing
You're what I'm clinging to
Though they say it's spring, it's you

If poets sing
That when a heart's sympathetic
It's merely spring
Then poets plights are pathetic
Though I'm poetic too

They say it's spring
For lovers, there's where the lure is
That evil thing
For which September the cure is
This they are sure is true

Though I know that it's so
That my fancy may turn in the spring
With the right one in sight
One can find a perpetual thing

Did I need spring
To bring the ring that you bought me
Though it was spring
That wondrous day that you caught me

Darling I thought we knew
That it wasn't spring, it was you

Clark/Haymes
   287. SteveF Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5640352)
Reading the actual complaints of the disabled people and their negative experiences with Uber and Lyft is a bit enlightening.

The issue isn't having cars outfitted with hydraulic lifts. The issue is drivers refusing to do simple things like put wheelchairs in the trunks of cars.
   288. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5640353)
Four Roses has some significant variance as well, but it's always good. Just different good.

That was another one I was going to talk about before I left for work. I have a coworker that that is her beverage of choice and that always amuses me. I mean are you ordering Four Roses because of the label or because of some demonstration? Most drinkers are particular about their drink and getting something that can taste different at times and actually preferring that is something I've always found odd.
   289. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5640354)
Buffalo Trace. Elijah Craig (regular, not the barrel proof). Henry McKenna Bottled in Bond. Wild Turkey 101. Knob Creek. All easily available and within that price range. The 101 is a little spicier and rougher than the others, but I like its boldness and you can't beat the price.
Gracias
   290. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5640356)
They say it's spring
This feeling light as a feather
They say this thing
This magic we share together
Came with the weather too


I don't know what the weather is like in the Omineca but it sure doesn't feel much like spring here in Des Moines :/
   291. The Good Face Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:53 PM (#5640357)
Funny you say that because I was going to say that for as much hype as single barrels get they are generally consistent when picking out barrels for a run and even year to year. Most single barrels don't vary greatly from bottle to bottle and so I always find it interesting coming across a "single barrel" of a specific Bourbon drinker.

Four Roses has some significant variance as well, but it's always good. Just different good.


The big producers know what they're doing and typically manage to keep single barrel products within their desired flavor profiles. I've occasionally found single barrel bottles that were especially good compared to other bottles of that product, but I don't think I've ever had one from a major distillery that was actually bad. Assuming it was a whiskey I thought was generally good in the first place.

   292. Traderdave Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:56 PM (#5640360)
Most drinkers are particular about their drink and getting something that can taste different at times and actually preferring that is something I've always found odd.


Variety is the spice of life
   293. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:56 PM (#5640362)
The issue is drivers refusing to do simple things like put wheelchairs in the trunks of cars.

Well, they shouldn't have to.
   294. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5640363)
For those of you Luddites who question the value of Twitter, post your apologies here.



That is brilliant.


I guess I missed whatever went viral this week because I don't get it.
   295. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5640365)

And if that happens, then the law is an ass, because the end result will not be the disabled getting access, but no one getting access, because it will kill the industry. Which I guess is a kind of equal access.


Taxis have thrived for decades if not centuries. The industry won't get killed off. The loopholes that have allowed some to skirt around regulatory bodies and fees might get killed off but you'll always have someone picking up someone else and taking them somewhere.
   296. SteveF Posted: March 20, 2018 at 01:59 PM (#5640366)
Well, they shouldn't have to.

Maybe so. I suppose that's what the lawsuit will decide.
But requiring that drivers do so won't cripple the business model. (Edit: And that isn't to imply that you thought it would.)
   297. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 02:00 PM (#5640367)
I guess I missed whatever went viral this week because I don't get it.


They found a ball on Mars. The tweeter is alluding to the ball that Pujols hit off Lidge that *literally went to Mars in the 2005 NLCS.

*not literally
   298. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 20, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5640371)
232

The bakers there have said that if the couple had wanted something off the shelf they'd have sold it.


Not sure what the difference would be, but OK...
   299. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5640372)
But requiring that drivers do so won't cripple the business model.

But why should they be? Am I required to do that if I'm a restaurant owner? Do I have to pack up a disabled person's wheelchair for them simply because they request/demand it? Is it a law that drivers have to store your luggage for you?
   300. The Good Face Posted: March 20, 2018 at 02:03 PM (#5640373)
That was another one I was going to talk about before I left for work. I have a coworker that that is her beverage of choice and that always amuses me. I mean are you ordering Four Roses because of the label or because of some demonstration? Most drinkers are particular about their drink and getting something that can taste different at times and actually preferring that is something I've always found odd.


Why? While there is a small amount of variance with single barrel products, 4 Roses still pretty much always tastes like 4 Roses. It's not like one bottle will taste like root beer and another one will taste like Sprite. It's like ordering a pizza from a local place. Some days the pie might have a little more or less cheese/sauce, some days the crust might be a tiny bit thicker/thinner or more/less done, but it's still essentially the same pizza.
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