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Monday, March 19, 2018

OTP 2018 March 19: Spending bill could quash Minor League Baseball players’ wage claims

A massive government spending bill that Congress is expected to consider this week could include a provision exempting Minor League Baseball players from federal labor laws, according to three congressional officials familiar with the talks.

The exemption would represent the culmination of more than two years of lobbying by Major League Baseball, which has sought to preempt a spate of lawsuits that have been filed by minor leaguers alleging they have been illegally underpaid.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 19, 2018 at 07:25 AM | 2016 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: minor league pay, minor leagues, off topic, owners, politics

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   601. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5640835)
How do you admit ignorance on a false Jewish conspiracy?

I guess it begins by acknowledging that you're ignorant. Here's what the Post story said:

On Monday, the council member fielded a large number of calls, texts and private meetings at city hall, including with Rabbi Batya Glazer of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington and Lou Dubin, a Jewish developer working on a project in Anacostia, which White represents.

“I’ve been in conversations with a lot of people from the Jewish community coming to the office, especially those who know me, showing their support to me,” said White, who was elected to a four-year term in 2016. “It has been a learning experience for me.”

Of course the question is what White says and does going forward after the furor has died down, but at least this is a start.
   602. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5640836)
Sooo... reviewing the primary results from my once and future home yesterday....

At the gubernatorial level, I'm not sure why Rauner is even bothering to run again. He's gotta be the most dead man walking governor in the country by a wide, wide margin. An anemic, ~3 point win over a nutter? Yeesh. I'd have preferred Biss, but whatever... surprised Pritzker won so handily, but supposedly, he dumped a lot of money into more than just ads and ran a pretty impressive ground game.

Progressives seem pretty happy that Kwame Raoul won the Democratic AG primary in a very deep field, besting 2nd place former Gov Pat Quinn by a few points. The only thing I know about Raoul is that he's serving in Obama's former state senate seat and came over from Haiti as a kid with his parents. I don't have nearly the dour view of Quinn that some people had - no real love for him either, but prior to his time as governor, I had always thought him nothing more than a self-serving gadfly. He still was a self-serving gadfly, but relative to his two predecessors and his successor, not a terrible governor. Regardless...

Very disappointed that that shitbag Lipinski hung on. Even more disappointed to have to root for him in the fall, as his GOP opponent in IL-3 is a real, live Nazi. Friends in the area tell me that Newman wasn't a particularly good candidate and didn't run a particularly good race -- and little Danny's daddy, who is still a powerful ward boss, managed to juice just enough votes out of the city proper part of the district to eke out a ~1500 vote win (out of nearly 100K total votes). The national media tried to pretend this was all about an anti-abortion Democrat, but it really should have been about one of the last dinosaurs of the loathesome machine (well, kiddie dinosaur). I expect he'll go down next cycle, one way or another.

Cook county local looked a whole lot better -

Toni Preckwinkle easily won reelection as county board President, beating pretend-reformer Bob Fioretti by more than 20 points -- so much for Big Soda insisting she was on her way out over the soda tax. I hope she changes her mind and runs against Rahm for mayor.

The best news of all, though, is that ultimate machinist Joe Berrios looks like he lost decisively in the county assessor race... However, from what I've read, I'm a bit fearful of shenanigans in this one. Fritz Kaegi beat Berrios by a good dozen points - but there was another alleged anti-Berrios candidate in the race whose candidacy was being challenged (by Kaegi). This is bog standard stuff -- and as the machine loses its power, it's always been really big on adding supposedly anti-machine candidates to races to split the protest votes (no run-offs in IL - you take 1st place with 30%, you win). Anyway - the other challenger was booted, then back on, then booted, before finally ending up "on". Supposedly, in certain wards - poll workers were handing out papers with ballots saying that her votes wouldn't count (even though the courts had ruled they would), meaning, she may very well have a non-zero shot at getting a new election. And she's already said she'll be filing suit... Now - no one likes such stuff mucking with an election, but if it's so true that her big reason for being in the race was to get rid of Berrios... well... Berrios was gotten rid of. In a HIGH turnout election. If there's a do-over, methinks Berrios has a better shot at winning in a far lower, single-race election. No proof I've read that this may be some REALLY dirty pool - but one of my Chicago friends pointed out that Berrios conceded REALLY early, before anyone even called the race... almost as if he didn't care about last night's results... so.... hmmmmm. I'd be very interested on which specifics wards and precincts these "mistakes" were made that may threaten the validity of the election...

Anyway, despite the primary challenge on the governor's side -- and a competitive AG race -- Democrat primary turnout more than doubled up GOP turnout. Even in downstate, rural areas - some of the D vs R ballot grabs (IL has open primaries - just take whichever ballot you want) were pretty jaw dropping.

   603. Zonk is One Individual Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5640838)
If you could control the weather, what would you do with it?


Targeted lighting strikes alone would keep me busy for months.
   604. dlf Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5640839)
The latter is almost never spoken about. People who are bad, disengaged parents aren't called out. They're not shamed. The issue is kept under the rug, bizarrely never to see much of the light of day.


You and I read different news accounts. When the actor is still reasonably young, like Lakeland or Columbine, I see a lot of discussion of their childhood, including parenting issues. We certainly read plenty, for example, about Adam Lanza's mother buying him the guns used to kill a bunch of first graders at Sandy Hook.
   605. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5640840)
:40 AM (#5640819)
So we should take your word for it? Would you grant anyone else here that benefit?


OF course not. Anyone who can’t provide immediate proof is a liar.
   606. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:04 AM (#5640841)
Dunroamin Duncarin Dunedin


The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking? Thumbs up!
   607. McCoy Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5640842)
I guess it begins by acknowledging that you're ignorant.

Hey, I'm not going to dig deep into this craziness but what you quote doesn't have the guy admitting his ignorance. The man is an adult and he's spewing crazy shvt that is obviously false to anyone that wants to think about it seriously. He chose not to do that.

His "learning experience" could simply be that he has learned that the Jewish cabal is also powerful in his own district.
   608. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5640843)
I heard a podcast about serial killers where an academic asserted that they almost always have one thing in common: they were never allowed to play when they were kids. Not allowed to have fun. Seems too broad a claim to be accurate, but it's interesting.
   609. dlf Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5640847)
The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking? Thumbs up!


I still have the album from the first release before they added the black bar across the hitchhiker's bum. Provacative back in 1984. As a teenager, I loved the line, "I like your lips red / not what the good lord made / but what he intended."
   610. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5640848)
I’ve done 10 from LA to Jacksonville. Entire length.

I’ve done 40 from OKC to Barstow.

I’ve done 70 from Pittsburgh to Indianapolis, and then St Louis to grand Junction, Co.

I’ve done 80 from NJ to Salt Lake City.

I’ve done 90 from Buffalo to Rapid City, and again from Billings to Missoula

I’ve done 94 from Detroit to Billings, nearly entire length.




I been from Tucson to Tucumcari
Tehachapi to Tonapah
Driven every kinda rig that's ever been made
Driven the back roads so I don't get weighed
   611. Ray (CTL) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5640849)
You and I read different news accounts. When the actor is still reasonably young, like Lakeland or Columbine, I see a lot of discussion of their childhood, including parenting issues. We certainly read plenty, for example, about Adam Lanza's mother buying him the guns used to kill a bunch of first graders at Sandy Hook.


Yes, when the parenting facilitated guns at the home we hear all about it.

Not much outside of that.
   612. BDC Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5640850)
People who are bad, disengaged parents aren't called out. They're not shamed. The issue is kept under the rug … no shame for the people who have checked out of their parenting responsibilities

This sounds reasonable, but it's a difficult moral position to take in practice. Things happen to kids that their parents haven't had any part in, and couldn't have had much control over. And kids are sometimes just hard to account for. They have inborn demons of one kind or other, and their parents may have tried the impossible to redirect their lives. And every year older the kid gets, the less you can hold parents responsible for what they do. They're their own people, sometimes pretty early on.

It's in some ways a very postwar-liberal interpretation: "Dear kindly Judge Your Honor, my parents treat me rough" was a cliché even by the late '50s, from all kinds of films and books that saw children as putty for good or bad parenting. But I think even a lot of liberals have evolved away from those extreme environmentalist ideas. You just run up against the experience of not having total, or sometimes even very much, influence over your kids.

Parents who aid and abet their kids' crimes (as dlf notes) get called out pretty quickly. Ethan Couch (the "affluenza" kid from here in Texas) is a bit of a monster to most observers, but his mom is generally thought of as even worse.
   613. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5640851)
.
   614. McCoy Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5640852)
Getting a fence built today. So the HOA approval process was kind of interesting in a getting a tooth drilled without Novocaine kind of way and watching it get built is also fascinating. A truck pulls up this morning with all the materials and tools needed to build it. It's one Hispanic guy with his wife/GF driving the truck. Apparently our job with 25 posts and 140 feet of fence is a one man job. By himself he pulled the fence posts off the truck and carried them to where they needed to go. Watching him do it was an adventure of guessing whether or not this time he would fracture his tibia unloading the truck. He now has to dig all of the holes manually for the fence posts and his grand plan for all of the mud/dirt is to throw it over the existing fence. Have to go to work so I won't get see how he'll actually erect the 6 foot fence pieces.
   615. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5640853)
You haven't lived until you've spent three weeks driving around southwest Kansas and the Oklahoma panhandle, observing the sorghum harvest.


DId you visit the House of Mud?
   616. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5640855)
527

The Russian Orthodox churches are cool too.


Could you see them from your kitchen window?
   617. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5640856)
529

No idea what Fox News is saying about them, since I haven't watched Fox News since ... well, really ever ... but there are of course many valid criticisms of each of the listed people and entities to be had and made.


So Trump's the only clean one, eh, Bear?

Please...
   618. dlf Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5640857)
Yes, when the parenting facilitated guns at the home we hear all about it.

Not much outside of that.


Again, we are reading / listening to different sources then as I've seen plenty about childhood, including parenting, whether pro or con. Just as an example, there were few news stories about Nikolas Cruz that didn't mention the recent death of his mother, something that had nothing to do with him obtaining guns at the home.
   619. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5640858)
You haven't lived until you've spent three weeks driving around southwest Kansas and the Oklahoma panhandle, observing the sorghum harvest.

DId you visit the House of Mud?
For stupid reasons I decided to delete the post you quoted, but no, we didn't visit the House of Mud. That's a tourist attraction, and why visit a tourist attraction when you can go meet a guy who repairs combine harvesters?

Though my father did report that in his considered opinion, Liberal, KS and the nearby Garden City, KS are the two most inaccurately named towns in the United States.
   620. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5640859)
The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking? Thumbs up!


Isn't it just a great album? What always stood out to me was how perfectly understated Eric Clapton's guitar work was. I have a live recording where he really cuts loose and you can tell he'd been keeping that pent up.

Love that album.
   621. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5640860)
I feel like the Columbine killers' parents were under a pretty intense microscope, and there was also some debate on whether or not that was fair to them.

I googled the first of these killers to pop into my brain by name, Dylann Roof. Here's a Times article scrutinizing his upbringing.

I think it's difficult to have a productive inquiry into the failed parenting techniques of these losers, or a national debate on the subject. I also don't want the discussion swept under the rug, but I'm not sure what the best way to bring it out into the light is.
   622. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5640862)
Have to go to work so I won't get see how he'll actually erect the 6 foot fence pieces.


Good luck. Construction is so shoddy these days that I feel the need to supervise every job. I can’t remember the last job I had done that would have been correct without my intervention. Think the “Fawlty Towers” episode “The Builders”.
   623. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5640863)
Austin bomber has apparently died in an accidental explosion of his own bomb.
   624. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5640864)
Uchhh god someone please put a metaphorical sock in Ray's keyboard? In the last two pages he cites Bill O'Reilly's show as a credible source (the fact that Ray was a viewer of that show is damning enough, but citing it as evidence of anything is cause for his being banished to the corner wearing a dunce cap), and then blames the parents of the Austin bomber without any evidence of bad parenting, because in Ray's child-like mind, Mommy and Daddy are the reasons we are who we are. In Ray's black and white world, no one rises above bad parenting and no one does bad things if they had good parents.

Imbecile Omega Dancing Monkey Pajama Boy, I hope you had a nice weekend sipping hot cocoa and watching cartoons.
   625. DavidFoss Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5640865)
Yes, when the parenting facilitated guns at the home we hear all about it.
Not much outside of that.


You don't really believe that. They archive old news articles, you know. You can go reread the articles about the Columbine kids' parents. The Parkland shooter had two dead parents (one recent). All the articles about bullying, violent video games, the 'incel' culture. They're all still up there on the internet. Pretending to forget those articles exist doesn't mean that we forgot them.

Not sure why you're using the serial bomber as a launching point for this discussion, either.
   626. dlf Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5640866)
Isn't it just a great album? What always stood out to me was how perfectly understated Eric Clapton's guitar work was. I have a live recording where he really cuts loose and you can tell he'd been keeping that pent up.

Love that album.


All that needs to be said about Pros and Cons is Jack Palance is the Hell's Angel.

Edit: I didn't really like Radio K.A.O.S. though. It is very much a creature of the time period.
   627. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5640867)
I guess it begins by acknowledging that you're ignorant.

Hey, I'm not going to dig deep into this craziness but what you quote doesn't have the guy admitting his ignorance. The man is an adult and he's spewing crazy shvt that is obviously false to anyone that wants to think about it seriously. He chose not to do that.

His "learning experience" could simply be that he has learned that the Jewish cabal is also powerful in his own district.


As I wrote above, we'll see what he says and does going forward, but you also might note that the Jewish organizations have accepted his apology.
   628. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5640868)
No idea what Fox News is saying about them, since I haven't watched Fox News since ... well, really ever


You're a liar.
   629. Tom T Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5640869)
Furthest North: somewhere in the vicinity of Höydal, Norway
Furthest South: Wilson's Promontory National Park, Australia
Furthest East: Sydney, Australia
Furthest West: Kaena Point State Park, HI

Actually, that's not as bad as I thought it would be. Looks like I most need to get more north...
   630. The Yankee Clapper Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5640870)
The major difference between the loon on the DC Council and Clapper's favorite loon in the White House is that the loon in the City Council admitted his ignorance and immediately apologized.

Andy is certainly willing to carry a lot of water for anyone wearing the Democratic label. White's non-apology apology is nothing more than trying to avoid the political fallout from his own remarks.
   631. . Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5640871)
So Trump's the only clean one, eh, Bear?

Please...


Trump isn't "clean" by any means, but the fundamentals of the case I've outlined here about elements of the FBI and DOJ badly abusing their power during the election campaign in order to "insure" against Trump are entirely true.

Fox may have TDSDS about it all -- certainly possible -- but I wouldn't have the first idea about whether it actually does.
   632. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5640872)
because in Ray's child-like mind, Mommy and Daddy are the reasons we are who we are. In Ray's black and white world, no one rises above bad parenting and no one does bad things if they had good parents.


I think you're misreading Ray here, who is usually on the opposite side of these sorts of debates, downplaying context and upbringing in the assessing how successful a person is. We had a debate a little while ago where he gave a triumphant outline of the intelligent decisions he'd made to get himself to the point where he could own an apartment in Trump Towers, which rather myopically didn't note the support he got from his family every step of the way.

The error he's making here is that he just can't see past his hobbyhorse ("We go on and on shaming people who don't support abortion rights, or gun control, or gay marriage, or transgenders in bathrooms.") and mistakes his own obsessive focus on the issue as an actual national focus. Or, what Foss said in #625: "Not sure why you're using the serial bomber as a launching point for this discussion, either." It makes no sense, the two subjects are not related, but when you're obsessed, you're obsessed. Just like SBB turning a Rolling Stones discussion into another anti- Modern Liberals screed.
   633. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5640873)
CNN cited a neighbor of the Austin bomber, a 75 year old guy who said that the bomber played with his grandkids when they were younger, and that the bomber was a nice kid and the family was a good family. Imbecile Ray's knee-jerk reaction is that the parents failed, because Ray is a fcuking ass hole.
   634. Shredder Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5640874)
I remember going on a family road trip from Toronto to Vancouver when I was 10 or so (so early 90s). I don't recall what my brother and I did that whole time, except drive my parents nuts. The rear windows in that car didn't open and my dad is a firm believer that AC in cars is for rich people, so it got pretty hairy back there.
When I was really little we used to drive back to Montana occasionally to the town where my dad grew up, three kids in the back seat of a sedan. One year we all had Sony Walkmen, and this was right after they came out (big, bulky, sturdy), and my parents said it was the best trip we ever had.
   635. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:30 AM (#5640875)
Isn't it just a great album? What always stoof out to me was how perfectly understated Eric Clapton's guitar work was. I have a live recording where he really cuts loose and you can tell he'd been keeping that pent up.


Definitely. I think he only hired him to make David Gilmour jealous. I'm gonna try to find that live recording, I would like to hear that.

“Fawlty Towers” episode “The Builders”.


Sybil Fawlty beating up that Irish guy with an umbrella is hilarious.
   636. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5640876)
I think you're misreading Ray here, who is usually on the opposite side of these sorts of debates, downplaying context and upbringing in the assessing how successful a person is.


Re-read what he wrote. He blames BAD PARENTING.
   637. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5640877)
All that needs to be said about Pros and Cons is Jack Palance is the Hell's Angel.

Edit: I didn't really like Radio K.A.O.S. though. It is very much a creature of the time period.


Totally agree. Amused To Death was my favorite but it is also pretty dated. Pros and Cons has aged the best IMO
   638. . Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5640878)
I feel like the Columbine killers' parents were under a pretty intense microscope, and there was also some debate on whether or not that was fair to them.


But the suburbs have no charms to soothe // The restless dreams of youth
   639. BrianBrianson Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5640879)
My understanding of the parenting literature these days is that barring truly extreme cases, you don't have nearly as much influence over how your kids turn out at you'd like to believe. For better and worse.

And I can't imagine meaningful extra punishment for people who're already the parents of a serial/spree killer.
   640. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5640880)
Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: March 20, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5640608)
North: Montreal
South: Miami
East: Nauset Beach, MA
West: Cleveland


Sounds quite reasonable to me. For whatever reason, most likely sour grapes from being brought up sub-working-class where it wasn't an option (absent enlistment & deployment in the military), I've never been able to comprehend the burning mania for travel that so many seem to not only harbor but also pursue.

North: Hillsdale County, Mich.
South: St. Petersburg, Fla.
East: Washington, D.C.
West: Los Angeles

   641. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5640881)
Re-read what he wrote. He blames BAD PARENTING.


I stand by what I said.

Also, bad parenting almost certainly IS to blame in many of these cases. He's just wrong that people don't talk about it.
   642. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5640882)
Here are some snippets of the wisdom of Ray:

As ever, the biggest problem with these losers is some combination of mental illness and horrific parenting.
We forever shame people who support Trump. But no shame for the people who have checked out of their parenting responsibilities.


Go fcuk yourself, Ray.
   643. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5640883)
The major difference between the loon on the DC Council and Clapper's favorite loon in the White House is that the loon in the City Council admitted his ignorance and immediately apologized.

Andy is certainly willing to carry a lot of water for anyone wearing the Democratic label. White's non-apology apology is nothing more than trying to avoid the political fallout from his own remarks.

If saying that he's a loon is carrying water, then yeah, I guess I'm carrying water for him.

Of course by that standard, you've been carrying around the equivalent of an entire town's water supply on your shoulders for the past 14 months.

Again, just when have you once noted your president's refusal to apologize for anything, ever? As usual, you'll just ignore this question and start talking about Hillary or Sidney Blumenthal.
   644. Morty Causa Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5640884)
   645. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5640885)
Also, bad parenting almost certainly IS to blame in many of these cases. He's just wrong that people don't talk about it.


He's also wrong to assume that it's ALWAYS the cause. Do you share that opinion?
   646. . Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5640886)
Just like SBB turning a Rolling Stones discussion into another anti- Modern Liberals screed.


A very small piece of it.
   647. Traderdave Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5640887)
Go fcuk yourself, Ray.


If successful, it will be his first fcuk.
   648. Ray (CTL) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5640888)
I think you're misreading Ray here, who is usually on the opposite side of these sorts of debates, downplaying context and upbringing in the assessing how successful a person is. We had a debate a little while ago where he gave a triumphant outline of the intelligent decisions he'd made to get himself to the point where he could own an apartment in Trump Towers, which rather myopically didn't note the support he got from his family every step of the way.


I don't remember whether I noted that or not but if I didn't it was implicit in the story. My parents helped me at every step of the way. They were very invested in me and my ten siblings. My dad came home from work every night. Every night. He wasn't out drinking or cavorting with women. My parents didn't go to expensive restaurants or take vacations. They didn't drink, they didn't do drugs, they weren't checked out. Everything they did they did with us save the occasional work function or neighbor's party. They forbade us from dating before college (which I don't think was the right move actually but they were invested enough to care and have a plan); they watched who we hung out with; they showed up at the parent-teacher meetings; they cared about the language we used; they cared about our grades, our college applications, our futures. They put all eleven of us through college; we got the max financial aid possible but as you can imagine that still left expenses up the wazoo. And most of these were not state schools. While I was in law school they paid my rent and expenses and much of my tuition.

So I certainly didn't mean to leave any of that out, if I did. To the contrary it's sort of my point.

I don't claim they always did everything right and they had some very 50s-oriented views such as no living together before marriage which are simply outmoded in today's society. What I do claim is that they were very invested. They tried, and they cared, and they succeeded.
   649. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5640889)
Sounds quite reasonable to me.


As I look back, I visited those places when I was a kid. As an adult, the places become:

North: Sherbrooke, Quebec
South: Cary, NC
East: Somewhere on Cape Cod
West: Buffalo
   650. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5640891)
He's also wrong to assume that it's ALWAYS the cause. Do you share that opinion?


I share your opinion. We certainly do not know if it's ALWAYS the cause.
   651. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5640892)
587

No (((Soros))), 6/10 conspiracy,


No, no, no, no, no... It was TOSB. Stop being silly!
   652. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5640893)
What I do claim is that they were very invested.


They should have disinvested in you because you are a jackass.
   653. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5640894)
We certainly do not know if it's ALWAYS the cause.


I think we can safely say that it isn't. Parents get too much credit/blame for how their kids turn out. I would think the adherents of the party of "personal responsibility" wouldn't be so weak as to blame a parent for a bad seed.
   654. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5640895)
Totally agree. Amused To Death was my favorite but it is also pretty dated. Pros and Cons has aged the best IMO


I need to go back to listen to each of these. I don't think I've played either one of them in ten years, at least.
   655. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5640896)
Ray, thank you for your thoughtful response in 648. Here's thethe thread I'm talking about, down at the bottom.


897. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 21, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5596217)

...
But I always felt that I controlled my own destiny as far as a career went. I decided what I was interested in and then assessed what my capabilities were...

It's why I don't understand the "income inequality" thinking of the left. Everyone of able mind and body has opportunity in this country. People make choices. If you're upset about "income inequality," become a president or VP of a company. Work your way up. Or start your own business. But to whine about such irrelevant things is a defeatist attitude. Nobody is doing anything bad to you, certainly not the people who offered you a job and you accepted. If you don't like your situation, make your own destiny. That's your responsibility, not mine.


I'm not going to reread the entire page but my memory is that we were talking about lack of opportunity for some people in America and your "make your own destiny" argument doesn't acknowledge the extent to which different people start in extremely disparate circumstances, not just wealth but parental involvement, psychological well-being, etc.
   656. . . . . . . Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5640897)
North: Somewhere in far northern Quebec
South: Bahia Blanca, ARG
East (longitudinal): Brisbane, AUS
West (longitudinal): Lahaina, HI

I've been to all states other than Oregon, South Dakota and North Dakota and all continents other than Antarctica.

I hate how small the world is.
   657. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5640898)
My parents helped me at every step of the way. They were very invested in me and my ten siblings. My dad came home from work every night. Every night. He wasn't out drinking or cavorting with women. My parents didn't go to expensive restaurants or take vacations. They didn't drink, they didn't do drugs, they weren't checked out. Everything they did they did with us save the occasional work function or neighbor's party. They forbade us from dating before college (which I don't think was the right move actually but they were invested enough to care and have a plan); they watched who we hung out with; they showed up at the parent-teacher meetings; they cared about the language we used; they cared about our grades, our college applications, our futures. They put all eleven of us through college; we got the max financial aid possible but as you can imagine that still left expenses up the wazoo. And most of these were not state schools. While I was in law school they paid my rent and expenses and much of my tuition.

So I certainly didn't mean to leave any of that out, if I did. To the contrary it's sort of my point.

I don't claim they always did everything right and they had some very 50s-oriented views such as no living together before marriage which are simply outmoded in today's society. What I do claim is that they were very invested.


You've mentioned all this before, and I believe every word of it. I've seen some of your family pictures on Facebook, and the visual evidence backs you up.

But what I don't get is this: Knowing all these advantages you had, how do you think you'd have wound up without them? What if your Mom had been entertaining Back Door Santas and losing track of who your siblings' fathers were, and your Dad had had a serious drinking problem and constantly beat her?

And knowing the huge advantage that good parenting gives to a child, why are you always so judgmental about those who come from broken homes with little or no parental support or guidance? You don't specifically single them out, but it's implicit in your constant criticisms of what some people call "ghetto culture".
   658. Ray (CTL) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5640901)
I'm not going to reread the entire page but my memory is that we were talking about lack of opportunity for some people in America and your "make your own destiny" argument doesn't acknowledge the extent to which different people start with extremely disparate upbringings, not just wealth but parental involvement etc.


But people seem to think that "extremely disparate upbringings" is something immutable. It's not. Let's shame deadbeat parents into doing better. So much of this is that.
   659. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5640903)
I think we can safely say that it isn't. Parents get too much credit/blame for how their kids turn out. I would think the adherents of the party of "personal responsibility" wouldn't be so weak as to blame a parent for a bad seed.


I don't disagree with you as far as parents getting too much credit/blame; but 'bad seed' sounds like you think that parents/schools have barely any impact at all. I don't believe that. Socioeconomic factors are definitely important predictors of what a child will become. Do you agree with that?
   660. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5640904)
I think we can safely say that it isn't. Parents get too much credit/blame for how their kids turn out.


I got into a talk with a friend of mine about an acquaintance that has borderline personality disorder and whether that was a nature or a nurture thing. I googled it and it turns out to be both. In general, you need both a genetic predisposition AND a chaotic upbringing. Good parenting can ameliorate bad genes, and vice versa.

My guess is that with serial killers, you'd likely see this. A kid that's nuts that was driven even more nuts by a horrible childhood. These are the worst of the worst, odds are they had all sorts of negative factors at play.
   661. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5640905)
Austin bomber has apparently died in an accidental explosion of his own bomb.


I don't think it was an accident.
   662. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5640907)
Let's shame deadbeat parents into doing better.


The problem with deadbeat parents is that they often had deadbeat parents. What it all comes down to is that this country has a huge mental health care problem where people who have mental health issues or familial issues are shamed and made to feel inferior. Seeing a good qualified therapist should be easy and cheap and in many cases it is not.
   663. BrianBrianson Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5640908)
For whatever reason, most likely sour grapes from being brought up sub-working-class where it wasn't an option (absent enlistment & deployment in the military), I've never been able to comprehend the burning mania for travel that so many seem to not only harbor but also pursue.


Three of my four points were business, or essentially business. If I played the game by pleasure travel only, it'd be a fair bit smaller (though having lived in Europe and North America spreads out even daytrips to a large-ish swatch of the globe).
   664. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5640909)
Again, just when have you once noted your president's refusal to apologize for anything, ever? As usual, you'll just ignore this question and start talking about Hillary or Sidney Blumenthal.


I think I've stumbled on a sure way to make Clapper disappear: Just keep asking him questions he doesn't want to (or can't) answer.
   665. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5640910)
I've never been able to comprehend the burning mania for travel that so many seem to not only harbor but also pursue.


I myself cannot comprehend this opinion.
   666. BrianBrianson Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5640911)
I don't remember whether I noted that or not but if I didn't it was implicit in the story. My parents helped me at every step of the way. They were very invested in me and my ten siblings. My dad came home from work every night. Every night. He wasn't out drinking or cavorting with women. My parents didn't go to expensive restaurants or take vacations. They didn't drink, they didn't do drugs, they weren't checked out. Everything they did they did with us save the occasional work function or neighbor's party. They forbade us from dating before college (which I don't think was the right move actually but they were invested enough to care and have a plan); they watched who we hung out with; they showed up at the parent-teacher meetings; they cared about the language we used; they cared about our grades, our college applications, our futures. They put all eleven of us through college; we got the max financial aid possible but as you can imagine that still left expenses up the wazoo. And most of these were not state schools. While I was in law school they paid my rent and expenses and much of my tuition.


This isn't very compelling - I know people in your situation who died of drug overdoses at sixteen, and guys who wouldn't recognise their father on the subway because their moms were always too stoned to describe the candidates who finished university, got a good job, bought a house, and are now perfectly upstanding citizens.
   667. Ray (CTL) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5640913)
The error he's making here is that he just can't see past his hobbyhorse ("We go on and on shaming people who don't support abortion rights, or gun control, or gay marriage, or transgenders in bathrooms.") and mistakes his own obsessive focus on the issue as an actual national focus. Or, what Foss said in #625: "Not sure why you're using the serial bomber as a launching point for this discussion, either." It makes no sense, the two subjects are not related, but when you're obsessed, you're obsessed. Just like SBB turning a Rolling Stones discussion into another anti- Modern Liberals screed.


The bad parenting issue doesn't "come out of nowhere." A 24 year old kid just blew up some people and then himself. Why folks think it's irrelevant to look at his upbringing in light of that is odd.

And the other things I mention above are certainly relevant. We burn calories on A, B, and C, and I'm asking why not on D also. Particularly when D is a far more important issue than some of A, B, and C.
   668. , Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5640914)
I still insist on bringing a large Rand McNally Atlas in the car on trips.

Of course.
   669. Ray (CTL) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5640915)
This isn't very compelling - I know people in your situation who died of drug overdoses at sixteen, and guys who wouldn't recognise their father on the subway because their moms were always too stoned to describe the candidates who finished university, got a good job, bought a house, and are now perfectly upstanding citizens.


Your analysis is deeply flawed. I didn't say this was a perfect solution. I said good parenting increases the odds of good outcomes.

Good parenting is the best path to follow. And much better than shitty parenting.

QED.
   670. BDC Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5640917)
Three of my four points were business, or essentially business. If I played the game by pleasure travel only, it'd be a fair bit smaller

Similarly, my travel has been propelled largely by academic conferences (which are certainly business, if not very lucrative); and by in-laws. For all the places I've been, I have very rarely gone anywhere that didn't have a meeting or a family member at the destination. In Iceland I have a good friend I know from academic conferences. A sister-in-law of mine lived in Venezuela; Mendocino (on the way to Arcata) and Budapest were conference destinations. I have been to California numerous times, for instance, but always for some kind of academic business, even if I've also visited friends.

Only very recently have I ever gone places where neither me or my partner know somebody, just to see the place. Awhile back I went to Rome just to see Rome, and in the past few years to Prague and Bratislava – but even those last two were sort of on the way from one relative to another. Travel for me is something of a life accident, though I really love doing it. (And of course one has to say, hey, there's this conference in Poland, I'll try for that instead of the one in Lubbock :)

Hence I have no ambitions to go to Asia, Australia, or Africa, or back to Latin America. I don't know many people there and have little professional reason to go. But Europe and North America remain places where I still have lots of plausible stopping-points on the way here and there.
   671. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5640918)
The bad parenting issue doesn't "come out of nowhere." A 24 year old kid just blew up some people and then himself. Why folks think it's irrelevant to look at his upbringing in light of that is odd.

And the other things I mention above are certainly relevant. We burn calories on A, B, and C, and I'm asking why not on D also. Particularly when D is a far more important issue than some of A, B, and C.


I meant that the other stuff came "out of nowhere." It's fine to call for more scrutiny of the kids parents. But in the same breath complaining about media coverage of transgenders in bathrooms is just "Old Man Yells at Cloud."
   672. Traderdave Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5640920)
It is interesting how similar my upbringing is to Ray's (I have 8 siblings, very conservative parents who had similar standards & lifestyle) and how different the outcome has been.
   673. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5640921)
Hence I have no ambitions to go to Asia, Australia, or Africa,


I find it astonishing and incomprehensible that someone with your good humor and intellectual curiosity doesn't want to see these fascinating, mindblowing, extraordinary places.
   674. , Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:23 PM (#5640923)
I've never been able to comprehend the burning mania for travel that so many seem to not only harbor but also pursue.


I myself cannot comprehend this opinion


Nor I. I didn't see who said it. But I know a lot of people who feel the same way. I do love having a home. As I've gotten older/richer, I've been fortunate to be able to travel to places and live there for awhile. I've probably done my last long road trip. It's much better to go somewhere and stay long enough to fit into the local rhythm.

If you do like beautiful drives, you should drive from La Serena through the Elqui Valley up close to the Argentine border. Otherworldly.
   675. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:24 PM (#5640924)
but 'bad seed' sounds like you think that parents/schools have barely any impact at all. I don't believe that. Socioeconomic factors are definitely important predictors of what a child will become. Do you agree with that?


I knew the "bad seed" comment would raise an eyebrow or 2. It was careless. I don't believe in the "bad seed". I was in a rush to post. I could have chosen a better way.
   676. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5640925)
A 24 year old kid just blew up some people and then himself. Why folks think it's irrelevant to look at his upbringing in light of that is odd.
Ray, who, exactly, in which post, said that upbringing is "irrelevant"?

Issue was taken because you ad hominem'd the parents here with no evidence. Do you have evidence that these specific parents were "bad"? If so, please share. That evidence would be useful to the discussion. Speculating that they are "bad" is not.
   677. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5640926)
Good parenting is the best path to follow. And much better than shitty parenting.

QED.


Typical Imbecile Omega Dancing Monkey Pajama Boy tripe.

Oversimplification followed by triumphant conclusion.

Fcuk off, Ray. You suck.
   678. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5640928)
What if your Mom had been entertaining Back Door Santas


Oh, she was. Legendary, from what I'm told.
   679. Ray (CTL) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5640931)
I meant that the other stuff came "out of nowhere." It's fine to call for more scrutiny of the kids parents. But in the same breath complaining about media coverage of transgenders in bathrooms is just "Old Man Yells at Cloud."


I didn't complain about media coverage. I complained about the focus on this issue from the ideologues.
   680. Traderdave Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5640932)
Not much point in speculating on the bomber at this moment. We will surely know a lot about him very soon. Just sit back and watch the news wire.
   681. Omineca Greg Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5640933)
In our family's case, the decision to travel was quite purposeful, and it was a parenting decision.

Growing up in Vancouver, I was exposed to lots of different cultures, it was something I've come to appreciate, and how fortunate it was for me to be brought up in a place like that. Seeing people come from things at different angles, and with different values has always been fascinating to me, there's so much you can steal from other people's worldviews and add to your own. Or negative examples too, horking up loogies, it doesn't gross me out to watch somebody do that, but living in an area with a group of people who are pro-loogie, and the other is definitely not...well, it gives you something to think about.

But when we moved to the Omineca, it was very uni-cultural. Not a bad culture, but if you didn't enjoy talking about snowmobiles over a cup of Tim Hortons, there wasn't really much for you here.

As parents, we decided we didn't want our children growing up to only know one way of thinking. As soon as we could afford it, we started going places, so our children could see things, things that had come so naturally to my wife and me. It was expensive, but it was the best money I've ever spent. The dividend of living in a place that's inexpensive can be harnessed in different ways, and in our case, we took some of that money to counteract one of the shortcomings of living here.

The irony is that now that I'm so attuned to cultural differences, I have a finer ability to pick out the best things of Ominecan culture. Most people from, well, let's call it...mainstream North American culture, seem relatively opaque to me, and they carry around a lot of affectation. Both my kids live in Vancouver now, and neither of them can stand the keeping up with neighbours ostentation of it all. Very hard to tell how much money an Ominecan has just by looking at them, that part of wealth, the showiness of it, isn't as important to people here as in most places.

Anyway, travel, an expensive hobby, getting anywhere from here is expensive, and the reason I'm well off has nothing to do with how much dosh is coming into our accounts, although it's decent, but everything to do with the cost of living here. So going out into different corners of the world isn't the most economically sensible thing to do (better to camp and fish all Summer, and take one fun in the sun lowest common denominator vacation in the Winter like the rest of the Ominecans do), but I'm really glad we did it.
   682. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5640934)
I knew the "bad seed" comment would raise an eyebrow or 2. It was careless. I don't believe in the "bad seed". I was in a rush to post. I could have chosen a better way.


I figured it was just a mistake. All good.
   683. dlf Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:37 PM (#5640936)
Totally agree. Amused To Death was my favorite but it is also pretty dated. Pros and Cons has aged the best IMO


And almost as if my playlist knew we were having this discussion, "The Powers That Be" from K.A.O.S. just came on. Every once in a while, I shuffle everything on it, from A-ha to Zachary Richard. Getting Waters right after a Sinatra torch song was unexpected.

.......

Edit: removed another comment. No need to get into that discussion further.
   684. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5640939)
Sinatra torch song was unexpected.


It's a quarter to 3...
   685. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:41 PM (#5640940)
Let’s do National Parks next.

Everglades
Biscayne Bay
Blue Ridge Parkway
Smokies
Shenandoah
Cumberland Gap
Mammoth Cave
Sleeping Bear Dunes
Apostle Islands
Voyageurs
Mt Rushmore
Theodore Roosevelt
Glacier
Rocky Mountain
Grand Canyon
Petrified Forest
Saguaro
Zion
Joshua Tree
Yosemite
Muir Woods
Redwood
Crater Lake
Olympic
Denali
Kenai Fjords
Hawai’i Volcanoes


   686. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5640941)
But when we moved to the Omineca, it was very uni-cultural. Not a bad culture, but if you didn't enjoy talking about snowmobiles over a cup of Tim Hortons, there wasn't really much for you here.

As parents, we decided we didn't want our children growing up to only know one way of thinking. As soon as we could afford it, we started going places, so our children could see things, things that had come so naturally to my wife and me. It was expensive, but it was the best money I've ever spent. The dividend of living in a place that's inexpensive can be harnessed in different ways, and in our case, we took some of that money to counteract one of the shortcomings of living here.


This is me. Just moved to a cold whitebread foresty place myself with my kids, away from the cosmopolitan Bay Area. Am super committed to introducing my kids to different cultures and the wider world.

Thank you for this.
   687. BDC Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5640942)
I find it astonishing and incomprehensible that someone with your good humor and intellectual curiosity doesn't want to see these fascinating, mindblowing, extraordinary places

That's fair enough (and very kind!) Part of it is simply age – not that I'm ancient, but that the amount of extra energy, in several senses, that it would take to cultivate the remaining 2/3 or 3/4 of the world seems beyond what I have left to put into it, in the ~15-18 years of traveling I might have left (God willing). I have seen so little even of France or Italy, for instance, and I have so much more to learn about their languages and cultures. I would rather specialize a little than expand, at this point in my life.

Who the heck knows, though. My ex-wife warned my current partner that I'm the kind who is likely to run off with a 25-year-old grad student. If this hypothetical young woman should happen to be from China or Brazil, I could find myself somewhere unexpected in my dotage :-D
   688. BDC Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5640943)
National Parks next

Carlsbad Caverns
Glacier
Guadalupe Mountains
Hot Springs
Redwood
Rocky Mountain

Miscellaneous and unambitious :)
   689. Traderdave Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:50 PM (#5640944)

The irony is that now that I'm so attuned to cultural differences, I have a finer ability to pick out the best things of Ominecan culture. Most people from, well, let's call it...mainstream North American culture, seem relatively opaque to me, and they carry around a lot of affectation. Both my kids live in Vancouver now, and neither of them can stand the keeping up with neighbours ostentation of it all. Very hard to tell how much money an Ominecan has just by looking at them, that part of wealth, the showiness of it, isn't as important to people here as in most places.


One of the things I love about the Bay Area is that appearances matter a lot less than other places. Billionaires walk around in Levi's & a hoodie, which is helpful for a sloppy dresser like me. It means equal treatment in public spaces, because it's harder to gauge a person's status by appearance.

And one thing I've learned over the years is that appearance & possessions don't mean a person HAS money. It just means they SPEND money.
   690. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5640946)
A picture of the bomber was released. He's very young -- and very white. But, according to Sanders this "wasn't terror".

WTF was it then?
   691. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5640948)
I made the decision to get out of the market on March 2. I'm too close to retirement to risk a downturn. It's a roller coaster now, and I got off of it.
   692. BrianBrianson Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5640949)

Good parenting is the best path to follow. And much better than shitty parenting.



Of course good parenting is the best path to follow, though in terms of how much it helps, it doesn't seem like very much.

And shaming bad parents probably only results in parents refusing to seek help when they have problems, for fear of seeming like shitty parents.
   693. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5640950)
Acadia, Arches, Badlands, Black Canyon of the Gunnison, Bryce Canyon, Crater Lake, Death Valley, Denali, Glacier, Grand Canyon, Grand Teton, Great Sand Dunes, Great Smokies, Joshua Tree, Kings Canyon, Olympic, Pinnacles, Redwood, Rocky Mountain, Saguaro, Sequoia, Yellowstone, Yosemite, Zion.
   694. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5640952)
But, according to Sanders this "wasn't terror".

WTF was it then?


She wasn't scared, so how could she think it was terrorism related?
   695. PreservedFish Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5640953)
Of course good parenting is the best path to follow, though in terms of how much it helps, it doesn't seem like very much.



Cite? That's certainly contrary to my expectations.
   696. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5640954)
As you well know it's not my style to just make stuff up about people.

Peters himself mentioned it on the air to O'Reilly a couple of years ago. It struck me at the time, and stayed with me.

Lesson that David apparently hasn't learned yet: Not everything is immediately googleable. Even if you google it "in multiple ways."
I'm not sure what work the word "immediately" is doing in that sentence, especially if you now claim it was a couple of years ago. No, I think pretty much anything significant said in that context would be googleable. So, I'll stick with learning the lesson that you do just make up stuff about people. Or more charitably perhaps you misheard and/or misremember; in googling, I did find several instances of Peters discussing Petraeus's affair.

Either of those are far more likely than that Peters happened to blurt out on O'Reilly for no particular reason that he had an affair, that it was never mentioned anywhere else or by anyone else, and that you still remember this several years later and saved it up just to use as an ad hominem in case he criticized your hero (that you totally don't support).
   697. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5640955)
As ever, the biggest problem with these losers is some combination of mental illness and horrific parenting.
Plausible. What evidence is there of "horrific" parenting in this particular case?
Good parenting is the best path to follow. And much better than shitty parenting.

QED.
Oh, *that* evidence. Congratulations on your self-proclaimed superiority.
   698. BDC Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5640956)
For fun I took a look at the list of National Monuments, which is very eclectic. I haven't been to very many, but the ones I've seen range from Bandelier NM, to Effigy Mounds in Iowa, to the Statue of Liberty.

I would do better on Civil-War-related parks. The only major ones I have never been to are (oddly enough) Sumter and Appomattox.
   699. , Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5640957)
Grand Canyon
Petrified Forest
Saguaro
Hot Springs
Death Valley
Kings Canyon
Yosemite
Great Sand Dunes
Mesa Verde
Rocky Mountain
Dry Tortugas
Everglades
Haleakala
Hawaii Volcanoes
Yellowstone
Acadia
Isle Royale
Carlsbad Caverns
Great Smoky Mountains
Cuyahoga Valley
Guadalupe Mountains
Arches
Bryce Canyon
Capitol Reef
Canyonlands
Zion
Shenandoah
Mount Rainier
   700. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 21, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5640958)

Austin bomber has apparently died in an accidental explosion of his own bomb.
Doesn't really sound accidental.
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