Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, May 14, 2018

OTP 2018 May 14: Political leadership, fans needed to bring baseball to Portland: Guest opinion

Today I’m not writing to promote the virtues of Major League Baseball or Portland as a baseball city. I’m writing from the perspective of one who worked on the last successful effort to bring a professional sports team to town—the Portland Timbers—and as someone who has worked in state and local politics for nearly 30 years. Few situations are fraught with as much politics as bringing a professional sports team to a community. If you look closely at cities that have experienced these debates, you’ll often find a combustible mix of political, financial and cultural issues that run deep and can linger for years.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 14, 2018 at 07:28 AM | 1368 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: boondoggle, new stadium, off topic, politics, portland

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 14 pages  1 2 3 >  Last ›
   1. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5671752)
Foist!

Who cares?
   2. PepTech Posted: May 14, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5671764)
Not me.
   3. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5671765)
Never understood Jews who got upset about this. It’s standard Christian theology: everyone’s going to hell w/o JC.


Standard Jewish theology would hold all of Christendom as pagans and idolaters but it's probably considered rude to bring it up.
   4. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5671767)
Yeah, maybe the swampiness is just so overwhelming people cannot grasp it any more.... but, I agree

Michael Cohen is the President’s personal lawyer. He says this. The President says this. It was apparently the premise of his pitch to AT&T and Novartis. But even the most generous reading says that Cohen was offering insights into how Trump thinks, his approach to policy issues, etc. Now in theory you might say a lawyer has to keep his client’s legal confidences. That doesn’t mean he can’t discuss the client’s general political views or how he thinks about things in general. But it seems almost impossible for me to imagine that distinction, especially when you are selling the knowledge rather than discussing it informally, could possibly pass any legal ethics muster.

Of course, in practice Cohen’s Trump’s bagman and bagmen gonna bag. But again, in theory at least, Cohen is Trump’s longtime lawyer, first in a corporate capacity and then as a personal lawyer. He is offering to sell his clients his insights into the man and his ideas gained through that relationship. And he isn’t his former lawyer. He is his current lawyer.
   5. PepTech Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5671769)
Oh Zonk, always with the early Monday morning TDS.
   6. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5671776)
JUANABOUT JORGE POSADA?
   7. Lassus Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5671778)
Saved from deserved derision by the only worse-throwing catcher at the time, HOFer Mike Piazza. Jorge was the Bernie of the backstop.
   8. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5671780)
Oh Zonk, always with the early Monday morning TDS.


If I don't swing the conversation back where it belongs, then apparently, holy wars break out.

   9. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5671787)

Since Howie has brought it up repeatedly here: the Supreme Court has struck down the ban on states authorizing sports gambling.

They issued a much broader opinion than I thought they might. They could have said, narrowly, that repealing an existing ban is not the same thing as affirmatively authorizing the activity. But instead they said (to oversimplify a bit) that Congress simply doesn't have the power to tell states what they can and can't ban. (Please note that this is not a dramatic restriction on federal power. Under this ruling, Congress can still regulate or ban sports gambling outright, if it chooses. But it did not do so, and it can't do it through the backdoor the way it tried to.)
   10. Howie Menckel Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5671789)
NJ wins epic sports betting case, SCOTUS strikes down 1992 federal law as unconstitutional.
Vegas-style sports betting for any state that wants it (don't get your hopes up, Hawaiians or Utahns).
   11. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5671790)

Nyah, Nyah.
   12. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5671797)
From Russia With No Love Lost:
Mr. Browder also contends that Mr. Putin benefited personally from the tax fraud Magnitsky uncovered: “When the law was in its final version, he issued a public statement saying that his single-largest foreign-policy priority was to stop the Magnitsky Act from becoming law.” Why? “The first and most specific reason,” Mr. Browder says, “and we only know this now, is that Putin actually received some of the proceeds of the crime that Sergei was killed over. In theory—and Putin saw this—he could be a person put on the Magnitsky list.”

The second reason is that the Magnitsky Act establishes a template to deal with human-rights violations that “flips the old concept of sanctions on its head,” Mr. Browder says. “It targets the perpetrators—the financial and juridical elites—and not an entire country. You can’t travel. You can’t move your money around. It’s like modern-day cancer treatment targeting only the bad cells.”

The law—and Mr. Browder—featured most recently in the drama surrounding the Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya, who in June 2016 met with representatives of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign. The story also involves Fusion GPS, the Washington-based opposition-research firm contracted by Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic Party to investigate Mr. Trump’s possible Russia connections. Actually, the dude appears to

“Putin hates the Magnitsky Act, as we know,” Mr. Browder says, “and looks for different ways to stop it. And one of his projects—well-resourced, with millions of dollars—was Veselnitskaya. She was deputized for this project because she represented the Katsyv family—Putin cronies caught up in laundering some Magnitsky money in the U.S. Some of that money enabled the purchase of apartment buildings in New York by Denis Katsyv, whose father is a government official close to Putin.” (In May 2017 Mr. Katsyv’s company, Prevezon Holdings, reached a $5.9 million settlement with the U.S. government, thereby avoiding a trial. The company and the Katsyvs denied any wrongdoing.)

In Mr. Browder’s account, Ms. Veselnitskaya came to America on behalf of the Katsyvs when the U.S. Justice Department began a forfeiture order for the properties. Ms. Veselnitskaya then began “a legal campaign to extricate the Katsyvs” from the case “and a political campaign to repeal the Magnitsky Act.” She hired John W. Moscow, a lawyer with the firm Baker Hostetler, who “brought Glenn Simpson on as part of their team” in 2014. In his testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee last August, Mr. Simpson, Fusion GPS’s founder and a former Journal reporter, said his firm provided litigation support to Baker Hostetler in the Prevezon case. Mr. Browder says that Mr. Simpson “got very energized in the spring of 2016 and basically started to work on behalf of Veselnitskaya, who has since been shown to be a Russian agent.”

Mr. Browder is referring to Ms. Veselnitskaya’s public acknowledgment that she is “an informant” for the Russian prosecutor general’s office. “That makes her an agent,” Mr. Browder insists. “So Glenn Simpson was working, effectively, also as an agent for the Russian government, as an adjunct to the Russian FSB,” the KGB’s successor. “At the same time . . . he’s doing this project to create a dossier on Trump.”


Mr. Browder tells me he heard from reporters that as the campaign against the Magnitsky Act proceeded, Mr. Simpson was pitching a story that “Magnitsky wasn’t murdered, he died of natural causes,” that “Magnitsky wasn’t a whistleblower, he was a criminal,” and that “Bill Browder telling this story is in contempt of Congress and perjuring himself.” (Through a lawyer, Mr. Simpson declined to comment. In November Mr. Simpson testified before the House Intelligence Committee: “I obviously think Sergei Magnitsky was killed in prison by neglect, if not worse.”)
Remember Browder's words the next time we hear that Simpson was oh so alarmed at the likelihood of Trump cavorting with Putin. Actually, the dude appears to have been carrying water for the Kremlin.
   13. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5671800)
There are a number of states with (sports gambling) legislation either in the hopper, or already passed. I would anticipate this is going to move very quickly.
   14. Howie Menckel Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:35 AM (#5671802)
well played, Nieporent!
and you got the context right
:)
roughly 6-2-1 (Ginsburg, Sotomayor dissent, Breyer is a half-and-half)
   15. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:37 AM (#5671805)
Because this move is a clear and obvious sop to the Christianist radicals on the American right.

Recognition of Jerusalem as the Israeli capital was approved by the Senate on a 93-5 vote, and the House by a 374-37 margin, with the Senate again unanimously reaffirming that action about a year ago. By every indication, the move enjoys widespread, bipartisan support.
   16. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5671806)

Remember Browder's words the next time we hear that Simpson was oh so alarmed at the likelihood of Trump cavorting with Putin. Actually, the dude appears to have been carrying water for the Kremlin.
Setting aside the flimsiness of Browder's specifics -- "got very energized," "heard from reporters" -- it's not clear why you'd have trouble seeing the difference in importance between a presidential candidate working with the Kremlin and a private business doing so.
   17. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5671808)
Recognition of Jerusalem as the Israeli capital was approved by the Senate on a 93-5 vote, and the House by a 374-37 margin, with the Senate again unanimously reaffirming that action about a year ago.
That's just because (((we))) threatened to ruin the weather in those districts whose representatives voted against (((us))).
   18. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5671809)
There are a number of states with (sports gambling) legislation either in the hopper, or already passed. I would anticipate this is going to move very quickly.


I have to think Nevada's future budgets are in for a real world of hurt - I think sportsbooks make up more than 50% of Nevada's gambling revenue and of course, gambling taxation IS Nevada's budget revenue.
   19. Lassus Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:43 AM (#5671811)
I have to think Nevada's future budgets are in for a real world of hurt

I dunno, I think this would increase betting elsewhere more than decrease it in Vegas. Granted, I have no idea how big the 'traveler sportsbooking' market is.
   20. BDC Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5671812)
Hmmn, I wonder what will happen (wrt sports gambling) in Texas. On the one hand, we don't even have casinos; the state is ringed by strategically-placed gambling venues in Oklahoma and Louisiana, which will probably have all kinds of sports books soon.

But OTOH, there's a sports bar in our local DFW racetrack that has long called itself "Book and Bar," with the implication that you can go in and bet – which you can, but till now only on racing. I wonder if the place was built anticipating some kind of liberalization of sports betting in Texas.
   21. Buck Coats Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5671813)
I think sportsbooks make up more than 50% of Nevada's gambling revenue


Is this really true? That seems astonishing to me, I would think it was much much lower
   22. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5671815)
Setting aside the flimsiness of Browder's specifics -- "got very energized," "heard from reporters" -- it's not clear why you'd have trouble seeing the difference in importance between a presidential candidate working with the Kremlin and a private business doing so.
I'll take Browder's side when it comes to he said/he saids with Simpson and Veselnitskaya every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It's reality that Simpson was working with a Russian agent on an obviously pro-Putin initiative.

There's still no evidence that the Trump campaign worked with the Kremlin while there are legit questions as to what Perkins Coie, a Team Hillary cutout, hoped to accomplish with its generous (not to mention unreported) payments to Fusion GPS, whose services included Steele's interactions with Russian officials.
   23. zenbitz Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5671816)
Holding my breath until they legalize online poker (again?)
   24. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5671818)
John Hagee was featured in the ceremony at the new embassy because he represents precisely the Christian death-cult who drove the move.
   25. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5671821)
Overheard:

The road for parliament starts with throwing a shoe at Bush!
   26. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5671822)
I dunno, I think this would increase betting elsewhere more than decrease it in Vegas. Granted, I have no idea how big the 'traveler sportsbooking' market is.


But I don't think it's just "in person" betting that Nevada loses out on - I believe a number of online sites, including some offshores, are actually owned by Nevada-based sports books.

Could be wrong, but I don't think it's just people go to the books in person that Nevada is going to lose out on here...

In any case, though - it's certainly going to hurt Nevada when it comes to big betting events (the Superbowl, NCAA tournament).

Vegas, at least, has most certainly gone out of its way to pad with non-gambling entertainment options - I have to imagine Vegas will always be Vegas - but I'm betting this does have an impact
   27. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:00 PM (#5671826)
I dedicate this Vice link to Lassus:

'SNL' Cold Opens Are Unfunny, Elitist Pieces of Liberal Propaganda

As well as this follow-up comment from Sonny Bunch:
Honestly, try to sit through the recent sketch in which Stormy Daniels, playing herself, warns Baldwin—legitimately the worst impressionist I have seen get regular airtime on a major broadcast show; it's still galling they fired Darrell Hammond for Baldwin—that she's coming for him. I dare you.

These cold opens are the equivalent of an Andy Borowitz column brought to life: a string of references that vaguely resemble humor but are done in such a ham-handed and incompetent way that you are not only unamused, you are vaguely horrified. It's like the Uncanny Valley of humor. You know it's a joke but you're so repulsed by its inability to be truly joke-like that you run away screaming.
   28. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5671827)
I think sportsbooks make up more than 50% of Nevada's gambling revenue.


Is this correct?
   29. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5671828)
Is this really true? That seems astonishing to me, I would think it was much much lower


I could be wrong - but I think purely on the state revenue side it is.... mainly, because I think the state gets a cut of every bet. I believe slots actually take in the most money period, but strictly on the piece the state takes - I think sports book is still oversized.

   30. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5671829)
Of course the States that pursue this will want their taste and get their beaks wet, but it sure seems like this is tailor made for any and every sports bar on earth to attempt to get in on the action.

I know at glancing at some of the early legislation on the state level, it won't be that easy from a licensing, and or cost perspective.
   31. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:06 PM (#5671831)
More great results from Trumpian diplomacy, though I'm sure seeing dozens of dead Palestinians is a feature rather than a bug to some people:

Israelis kill dozens of Palestinians in Gaza protesting U.S. Embassy move to Jerusalem
ZEITOUN, Gaza Strip — Israeli soldiers on Monday killed 41 Palestinians demonstrating along the border fence between Israel and the Gaza Strip and wounded more than 1,600 in the bloodiest day in the enclave since the 2014 war with Israel, according to the Gaza Health Ministry.

Thousands of Palestinians gathered on the edges of Gaza as the U.S. Embassy opened in Jerusalem, fanning out along the fence in what appeared to be some of the largest demonstrations yet.

At a gathering point east of Gaza City, organizers urged demonstrators to burst through the fence, telling them Israeli soldiers were fleeing their positions, even as they were reinforcing them.

At the barrier, young men threw stones and tried to launch kites carrying flames in hopes of burning crops on the other side. Most of the demonstrators, though, were peaceful, protesting the loss of their homes and villages and the embassy move.

Occasional sporadic gunfire could be heard over the noise of the crowd, and a constant stream of ambulances roared back and forth from the fence, ferrying away the wounded....

Until Monday, the death toll at demonstrations had been on the decline, with only one Palestinian killed on Friday, and no deaths the previous week....

Emphasis added. The point isn't that the Palestinian leadership is blameless, but that moving the Embassy was a completely unnecessary move, made solely to score political points for Trump and Bibi. It was a move that was bound to bring about tragedies like this, and will likely continue to do so. Not that Trump and Bibi (or the protest leaders who egged the demonstrators on to their slaughter) give a #### about any of this.

And people wonder why the best resolution we're ever going to have in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is 70 years more of more of the same.
   32. Lassus Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5671832)
'SNL' Cold Opens Are Unfunny

Old Man Shakes Fist at Cloud
   33. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5671833)
Iran’s Foreign Ministry Spokesman:
H.J.Ansari Zarif’s senior advisor: “If Europeans stop trading with Iran and don’t put pressure on US then we will reveal which western politicians and how much money they had received during nuclear negotiations to make #IranDeal happen.”

Is that why serial Logan Act violator John Kerry is scurrying around Europe?
   34. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5671835)
This link states that Nevada sportsbook revenues were $248.8M out of $4.87B in total gambling revenue. Roughly 5%.

https://www.legalsportsreport.com/18130/nevada-sportsbooks-2017/

Unless I'm interpreting it incorrectly.
   35. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5671837)
Emphasis added. The point isn't that the Palestinian leadership is blameless, but that moving the Embassy was a completely unnecessary move, made solely to score political points for Trump and Bibi. It was a move that was bound to bring about tragedies like this, and will likely continue to do so. Not that Trump and Bibi (or the protest leaders who egged the demonstrators on to their slaughter) give a #### about any of this.
Regrettably, Andy still thinks Hamas gives two shits about the location of the US Embassy. The organization's leadership bears sole responsibility for today's deaths.
   36. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5671838)
Double post.
   37. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5671842)
The organization's leadership bears sole responsibility for today's deaths.


No one could have predicted who Jason would blame.
   38. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:15 PM (#5671843)
Is that why serial Logan Act violator John Kerry


In order to violate the Logan Act, there must exist a legitimate and worthy government to undermine.
   39. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5671845)
Is that why serial Logan Act violator John Kerry is scurrying around Europe?
Hehehehehehehe. That would be something but I'm doubtful such payments were made; the professional Iranian regime apologists had already received plenty of cash from Soros' Ploughshares Fund.
   40. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5671846)
The point isn't that the Palestinian leadership is blameless, but that moving the Embassy was a completely unnecessary move, made solely to score political points for Trump and Bibi. It was a move that was bound to bring about tragedies like this, and will likely continue to do so. Not that Trump and Bibi (or the protest leaders who egged the demonstrators on to their slaughter) give a #### about any of this.

Won't quote it again but the part part Andy bolded in #31, but then chose to ignore, says it all. The Palestinians attacked a border crossing and were repulsed. There is no reason to hold U.S. policy hostage to those who have no interest in recognizing Isreal's existence. It's long past due to remind the Palestinians that the world will not wait forever for them to get over their intransigence.
   41. tshipman Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5671847)
Setting aside the flimsiness of Browder's specifics -- "got very energized," "heard from reporters" -- it's not clear why you'd have trouble seeing the difference in importance between a presidential candidate working with the Kremlin and a private business doing so.


Not just a private business, but one that had outsourced the work to a subcontractor.

Like, what is Simpson even doing in this scenario?
   42. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:16 PM (#5671848)
This link states that Nevada sportsbook revenues were $248.8M out of $4.87B in total gambling revenue. Roughly 5%.

https://www.legalsportsreport.com/18130/nevada-sportsbooks-2017/


Huh, mea culpa... though, is that total revenue or just the handle?

I.e., I was under the impression that once you added up all the taxation of the whole shebang (licensing, etc) - sports books were Nevada's most lucrative because slots use some sort of sliding total amount bet scale. But I could be wrong... sounds like I probably am.
   43. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5671849)
No one could have predicted who Jason would blame.
How's my precious snowflake doing today?
   44. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5671851)
Emphasis added. The point isn't that the Palestinian leadership is blameless, but that moving the Embassy was a completely unnecessary move, made solely to score political points for Trump and Bibi. It was a move that was bound to bring about tragedies like this, and will likely continue to do so. Not that Trump and Bibi (or the protest leaders who egged the demonstrators on to their slaughter) give a #### about any of this.

Regrettably, Andy still thinks Hamas gives two shits about the location of the US Embassy.


Probably not any more than Trump cares, but they both have their reasons for wanting to provoke violent confrontations.



   45. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5671853)
I think the Sportsbook is amongst its most profitable streams (margins) on a per play basis, trailing only a few other games, but I still think it is a small part of the overall casino pie. Apparently the mobile betting apps are where casinos are seeing off the chart growth rates.
   46. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5671854)
That said (re: Nevada revenue) - I do know that Vegas actually flipped from 50% > gaming revenue to the other direction more than 10 years ago, to the point that something like 65% of total Vegas revenue now comes from non-gaming taxation (hotels, entertainment taxes, etc).
   47. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:20 PM (#5671855)
Probably not any more than Trump cares, but they both have their reasons for wanting to provoke violent confrontations.
Where thousands of young men attacking a sovereign nation's border fence and moving a diplomatic facility to a nation's capital are deemed equal.
   48. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5671857)
I think the Sportsbook is amongst its most profitable streams (margins) on a per play basis, trailing only a few other games, but I still think it is a small part of the overall casino pie. Apparently the mobile betting apps are where casinos are seeing off the chart growth rates.


Yeah... I think you (and Barry and...) are right. Maybe that's what I was thinking of.
   49. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:24 PM (#5671858)
How's my precious snowflake doing today?


Whine all you want, son. You were told. You acted in direct opposition to that statement. As such, you were sent packing. In truth, my life isn't notably worse for the wear.
   50. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5671860)
Note for normal people: Jason and Clapper are absolutely giddy at the blood shed by Palestinians. They are what we thought they were.
   51. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:27 PM (#5671863)
Whine all you want, son. You were told. You acted in direct opposition to that statement. As such, you were sent packing. In truth, my life isn't notably worse for the wear.
Not my fault you (and Pong) got smacked around like a pinata and are now wailing louder than a two-year old on a United flight when his ears pop for the first time.
   52. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:28 PM (#5671864)
Not my fault


Your descent into stupidity and ########### are both, in fact, your fault. I have no time for your conspiratorial cockholstering nonsense.

Also, the "e" is no where near the "o" so I'm assuming the "Pong" thing is a direct racist slur. Cuddling up to the neo's hasn't helped you, boy.
   53. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5671869)
Note for normal people: Jason and Clapper are absolutely giddy at the blood shed by Palestinians. They are what we thought they were.

Sam remains distraught that the Palestinians' military actions produce insufficient Israeli casualties for his taste.
   54. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:31 PM (#5671870)
Sam remains distraught that the Palestinians' military actions produce insufficient Israeli casualties for his taste.


The only casualty I'm openly rooting for right now is you.
   55. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5671872)
The point isn't that the Palestinian leadership is blameless, but that moving the Embassy was a completely unnecessary move, made solely to score political points for Trump and Bibi. It was a move that was bound to bring about tragedies like this, and will likely continue to do so. Not that Trump and Bibi (or the protest leaders who egged the demonstrators on to their slaughter) give a #### about any of this.

Won't quote it again but the part part Andy bolded in #31, but then chose to ignore, says it all.


Just why would you think I bolded it if I were wishing to ignore it?

The Palestinians attacked a border crossing and were repulsed. There is no reason to hold U.S. policy hostage to those who have no interest in recognizing Isreal's existence. It's long past due to remind the Palestinians that the world will not wait forever for them to get over their intransigence.

Just who is the "world" you speak of here, beyond Trump and his base, Bibi and his, and the Gulf State dictatorships?

Here's the politically incorrect truth: Israel and the Palestinians are never going to achieve peace. Never. The very best anyone can ever hope for is that the number of unnecessary deaths be limited. And moving the embassy was a deliberate provocation that ensured that those numbers would only increase. I'm sure you're satisfied now that you've made your point.

But there was absolutely no rational secular reason for that embassy to have been moved, other than for Trump to virtue signal to his base at home and in Israel. The reaction was 100% predictable, and Trump doesn't care about those deaths any more than those who egged on the demonstrators in the face of gunfire. Welcome to the world where domestic politics govern every move. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm neither an Israeli or a Palestinian.
   56. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5671873)

But I don't think it's just "in person" betting that Nevada loses out on - I believe a number of online sites, including some offshores, are actually owned by Nevada-based sports books.

Could be wrong, but I don't think it's just people go to the books in person that Nevada is going to lose out on here...


But gambling laws are based on the location of the bettor, not on where the site is hosted or its owner is located. For example, I don't think a gambling site is allowed to let you play if you're based in New York. (I don't know how easy these restrictions are to get around.)
   57. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5671874)
But there was absolutely no rational secular reason for that embassy to have been moved


If your end goal is to create the conditions for outright war in the region, it makes sense. See also "Iran."
   58. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5671878)
But there was absolutely no rational secular reason for that embassy to have been moved

If your end goal is to create the conditions for outright war in the region, it makes sense. See also "Iran."


I said "rational".
   59. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5671879)
More great results from Trumpian diplomacy, though I'm sure seeing dozens of dead Palestinians is a feature rather than a bug to some people:
Indeed. With those "some people" being Hamas.

Emphasis added. The point isn't that the Palestinian leadership is blameless, but that moving the Embassy was a completely unnecessary move, made solely to score political points for Trump and Bibi. It was a move that was bound to bring about tragedies like this, and will likely continue to do so. Not that Trump and Bibi (or the protest leaders who egged the demonstrators on to their slaughter) give a #### about any of this.
The author of the piece is sadly misinformed. Said move brought about no tragedies. (And, as always, you randomly boldface things for emphasis with no obvious reason. The boldfaced portion doesn't support your notion.) The so-called "demonstrators" were not complaining about the move of the U.S. embassy. You have to understand that Hamas -- unlike the PA -- doesn't even pretend to recognize Israel; Tel Aviv is just as much occupied territory to Hamas as Jerusalem is.


EDIT: I notice Andy conveniently left out or failed to boldface parts showing these people aren't "demonstrating," but are rather attacking:
At the barrier, young men threw stones and tried to launch kites carrying flames in hopes of burning crops on the other side. Most of the demonstrators, though, were peaceful, protesting the loss of their homes and villages and the embassy move.
...
“We are excited to storm and get inside,” said 23-year-old Mohammed Mansoura. When asked what he would do inside Israel, he said, “Whatever is possible, to kill, throw stones.”
That's why Israel is shooting. And that's what these attacks are about, not about the embassy.
   60. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5671882)
But there was absolutely no rational secular reason for that embassy to have been moved, other than for Trump to virtue signal to his base at home and in Israel it was US law and, less than one year ago, the Senate had unanimously affirmed the act.
FTFY, Andy.

But, since it was Trump who fulfilled the campaign promise, you'll now even go so far as endorse the heckler's veto.

EDIT: In fairness, Andy would probably be pulling the same stunt if Rubio or Cruz had done this.
   61. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5671885)
Israel and the Palestinians are never going to achieve peace. Never. The very best anyone can ever hope for is that the number of unnecessary deaths be limited. And moving the embassy was a deliberate provocation that ensured that those numbers would only increase. I'm sure you're satisfied now that you've made your point.

Then I see no reason to cede control of U.S. policy to a corrupt Palestinian leadership that refuses to make peace as it loses war after war, and resorts to terrorist tactics in deliberate attacks aimed at civilians, just to perpetuate the status quo.
But there was absolutely no rational secular reason for that embassy to have been moved . . .

No reason other than the normal practice of locating embassies in capital cities? And the overwhelming vote of both Houses of Congress to do so? Those are actually pretty good reasons. Giving in to the [corrupt] Palestinian leadership's threats to get some of their own people killed isn't a good reason to continue a bad policy.
   62. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5671887)
But, since it was Trump who fulfilled the campaign promise, you'll now even go so far as endorse the heckler's veto.


You elected the heckler. Rational men will oppose your undermining of the republic.
   63. Count Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:45 PM (#5671889)
Incredible responses here to the massacre of dozens of protestors.
   64. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:49 PM (#5671893)
Incredible responses here to the massacre of dozens of protestors.

"Protestors"? How gullible are you? How gullible do you think the rest of us are?
   65. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5671898)

But there was absolutely no rational secular reason for that embassy to have been moved

What rational reason is there to have our embassy in a city that is not the country's capital? In which other nations do we not have our embassy in the capital (besides the Netherlands/Hague)?

Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel for nearly 70 years. Given that you think there will never be peace between the Israelis and Palistinians (something I don't agree with you on), how much longer do you think they should wait before other countries recognize that fact?
   66. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5671900)
"Protestors"? How gullible are you? How gullible do you think the rest of us.


You're not gullible. You just enjoy killing Palestinians.
   67. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5671904)
Speaking of gullible and bubbles...

The common denominator of so many of the strange and troubling cultural narratives coming our way is a set of assumptions about who matters, whose story it is, who deserves the pity and the treats and the presumptions of innocence, the kid gloves and the red carpet, and ultimately the kingdom, the power, and the glory. You already know who. It’s white people in general and white men in particular, and especially white Protestant men, some of whom are apparently dismayed to find out that there is going to be, as your mom might have put it, sharing. The history of this country has been written as their story, and the news sometimes still tells it this way—one of the battles of our time is about who the story is about, who matters and who decides.

It is this population we are constantly asked to pay more attention to and forgive even when they hate us or seek to harm us. It is toward them we are all supposed to direct our empathy. The exhortations are everywhere. PBS News Hour featured a quiz by Charles Murray in March that asked “Do You Live in a Bubble?” The questions assumed that if you didn’t know people who drank cheap beer and drove pick-up trucks and worked in factories you lived in an elitist bubble. Among the questions: “Have you ever lived for at least a year in an American community with a population under 50,000 that is not part of a metropolitan area and is not where you went to college? Have you ever walked on a factory floor? Have you ever had a close friend who was an evangelical Christian?”

The quiz is essentially about whether you are in touch with working-class small-town white Christian America, as though everyone who’s not Joe the Plumber is Maurice the Elitist. We should know them, the logic goes; they do not need to know us. Less than 20 percent of Americans are white evangelicals, only slightly more than are Latino. Most Americans are urban. The quiz delivers, yet again, the message that the 80 percent of us who live in urban areas are not America, treats non-Protestant (including the quarter of this country that is Catholic) and non-white people as not America, treats many kinds of underpaid working people (salespeople, service workers, farmworkers) who are not male industrial workers as not America. More Americans work in museums than work in coal, but coalminers are treated as sacred beings owed huge subsidies and the sacrifice of the climate, and museum workers—well, no one is talking about their jobs as a totem of our national identity.

* * *

And the meanest voices aren’t necessarily those of the actual rural and small-town. In a story about a Pennsylvania coal town named Hazelton, Fox’s Tucker Carlson recently declared that immigration brings “more change than human beings are designed to digest,” the human beings in this scenario being the white Hazeltonians who are not immigrants, with perhaps an intimation that immigrants are not human beings, let alone human beings who have already had to digest a lot of change. Once again a small-town white American narrative is being treated as though it’s about all of us or all of us who count, as though the gentrification of immigrant neighborhoods is not also a story that matters, as though Los Angeles and New York City, both of which have larger populations than many American states, are not America. In New York City, the immigrant population alone exceeds the total population of Kansas (or Nebraska or Idaho or West Virginia, where all those coal miners are).

* * *
This misdistribution of sympathy is epidemic. The New York Times called the man with a domestic-violence history who in 2015 shot up the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood, killing three parents of young children, “a gentle loner.” And then when the bomber who had been terrorizing Austin, TX, last month was finally caught, journalists at the newspaper interviewed his family and friends and let their positive descriptions stand as though they were more valid than the fact he was an extremist and a terrorist who set out to kill and terrorize black people in a particularly vicious and cowardly way. He was a “quiet, ‘nerdy’ young man who came from ‘a tight-knit, godly family,” the Times let us know in a tweet, while the Washington Post’s headline noted he was “frustrated with his life,” which is true of millions of young people around the world who don’t get this pity party and also don’t become terrorists. The Daily Beast got it right with a subhead about the latest right-wing terrorist, the one who blew himself up in his home full of bombmaking materials: “Friends and family say Ben Morrow was a Bible-toting lab worker. Investigators say he was a bomb-building white supremacist.”
   68. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 12:56 PM (#5671905)
As noted in #15, the embassy move enjoys wide, bipartisan support - Schumer Applauds Embassy Move To Jerusalem:
In a rare moment of agreement with President Trump, Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) on Monday praised the president for moving the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

“In a long overdue move, we have moved our embassy to Jerusalem. Every nation should have the right to choose its capital,” Schumer said in a statement. “I sponsored legislation to do this two decades ago, and I applaud President Trump for doing it.”

Looks like it's Team Blue here that is out of step.
   69. zenbitz Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:00 PM (#5671909)
to a corrupt Palestinian leadership that refuses to make peace as it loses war after wa


Sonuvabitch just won't go belly up!
   70. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:06 PM (#5671918)
Most transparent administration in history ...

White House Leakers Leak About Leaking

Jonathan Swan: “The leaks come in all shapes and sizes: small leaks, real-time leaks, weaponized leaks, historical leaks. Sensitive Oval Office conversations have leaked, and so have talks in cabinet meetings and the Situation Room. You name it, they leak it.”

“My colleague Mike Allen, who has spent nearly 20 years covering the White House, says we learn more about what’s going on inside the Trump White House in a week than we did in a year of the George W. Bush presidency.

“This White House leaks so much that meetings called to bemoan leaks begin with acknowledgement the bemoaning will be leaked, which is promptly leaked…by several leakers in a smallish room.”


'Vendettas' and a 'never-ending Mexican standoff': White House leakers explain why they leak so much

These people all signed on for this working environment, but this has implications outside of the White House and a majority of voters did not sign on for an administration guided by malevolence even toward its own staff and in which Sanders was more angry about the leak of Kelly Sadler’s comment that Sen. John McCain is “dying anyway” than she was at the comment itself.

Bonus points, though, for the staffer who told Swan that “I usually pay attention to other staffers' idioms and use that in my background quotes. That throws the scent off me.” Talk about a commitment to your craft.


All White Houses leak, but only the BEST White House leaks more than the rest.
   71. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5671923)
Don't look Clapper!

Democrats Embrace Moderates for Key Races

New York Times: “In a string of important races across the country, national Democrats have been embracing recruits near the political center, hoping they will give the party the chance to compete in states like Utah and Kansas where a liberal Democrat might stand little chance of winning. About a dozen crucial House races this fall are likely to feature Democratic nominees who are positioned markedly closer to the middle than the national party’s activist base — more than enough to determine control of the House.”
   72. Count Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5671929)
Yes, protestors. It doesn’t matter if it was a Hamas gambit - the Israeli military has shot hundreds of protestors and murdered dozens of them. It’s disgusting and shameful. (Saying this as a liberal Zionist).
   73. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5671934)
More great results from Trumpian diplomacy, though I'm sure seeing dozens of dead Palestinians is a feature rather than a bug to some people:

Indeed. With those "some people" being Hamas.


True, but they're hardly alone.

EDIT: I notice Andy conveniently left out or failed to boldface parts showing these people aren't "demonstrating," but are rather attacking:
At the barrier, young men threw stones and tried to launch kites carrying flames in hopes of burning crops on the other side. Most of the demonstrators, though, were peaceful, protesting the loss of their homes and villages and the embassy move.

If you haven't figured out by now that I'm not a fan of violent attacks by Palestinians, you probably never will. Should I just copy and paste the entire article the next time?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

But there was absolutely no rational secular reason for that embassy to have been moved, other than for Trump to virtue signal to his base at home and in Israel it was US law and, less than one year ago, the Senate had unanimously affirmed the act.


FTFY, Andy.

But, since it was Trump who fulfilled the campaign promise, you'll now even go so far as endorse the heckler's veto.

EDIT: In fairness, Andy would probably be pulling the same stunt if Rubio or Cruz had done this.


And in fairness, I'd be saying the same thing if a Democratic president had done it, regardless of any Senate vote. Domestic political considerations shouldn't override common sense when the consequences of doing so are both so tragic and so utterly predictable.

But great, you and Trump have made your point: Israel so strong, Palestinians so weak, deal with it. As if Israel's military might had ever been in doubt.

Fine, but whatever long run benefit that this is going to bring about for either Israel or the Palestinians is something nobody can quite explain, and neither Israel nor its American allies are particularly interested in addressing the question.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

But there was absolutely no rational secular reason for that embassy to have been moved . . .

No reason other than the normal practice of locating embassies in capital cities? And the overwhelming vote of both Houses of Congress to do so? Those are actually pretty good reasons. Giving in to the [corrupt] Palestinian leadership's threats to get some of their own people killed isn't a good reason to continue a bad policy.


So you're fine with the inevitable consequences of a move that exactly seven other countries in the world support. Here's that list of our allies:

1. Guatemala

2. Honduras

3. Marshall Islands

4. Micronesia

5. Nauru

6. Palau

7. Togo

Again, a rational reason for moving the embassy might include some tangible benefits.

Care to provide us with a list of those benefits?

P.S. Virtue signaling is not a tangible benefit, regardless of whether it's coming from a Republican president or Democratic senators.
   74. McCoy Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:24 PM (#5671935)
The problem with this White House staff is that they are not all working toward a common goal. It's just a job, it isn't permanent, and you're not likely to have latch onto a job with the establishment afterwards. So they are all in it for themselves and they are rudderless because they have largely nothing to work on and no real way to achieve a goal should they even be created or set. They're working to placate a moronic orangutan's ego and nothing more.
   75. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5671938)
Care to provide us with a list of those benefits?


John Hagee's demographic is happy that the death of humanity is that much closer in their theocratic dreams.
   76. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:28 PM (#5671939)
The problem with this White House staff is that they are not all working toward a common goal.


Sure they are. "Getting hired by Fox or a K-street firm for big bucks after this #### show ends" is a common goal.
   77. dlf Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:31 PM (#5671942)
As noted in #15, the embassy move enjoys wide, bipartisan support


Setting aside the move itself, what is your opinion on using a Baptist Minister who has stated that Jews are going to Hell to provide the invocation for the opening of the Embassy? Seems to me to be as poorly thought through as serving Abe dessert out of a shoe.

Again, a rational reason for moving the embassy might include some tangible benefits.

Care to provide us with a list of those benefits?


To reflect the facts on the ground that Jerusalem is and has been for generations the capital of one of our allies. To reflect the facts on the ground that the peace process is stalled and that continuing the same approach will likely lead to the same results.
   78. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:33 PM (#5671943)
If you haven't figured out by now that I'm not a fan of violent attacks by Palestinians, you probably never will. Should I just copy and paste the entire article the next time?

You keep lamenting that the attackers - who you are "not a fan of" - are getting killed. Perhaps you should advise them to stop their attacks?
   79. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5671948)
To reflect the facts on the ground that Jerusalem is and has been for generations the capital of one of our allies. To reflect the facts on the ground that the peace process is stalled and that continuing the same approach will likely lead to the same results


To reflect the fact that the only end game of peace either side will accept is the murderous elimination of the other, and that siding with the murderous zealots of Side A moves the needle for Christian Dominionist votes at home.
   80. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5671952)
Yes, protestors. It doesn’t matter if it was a Hamas gambit - the Israeli military has shot hundreds of protestors and murdered dozens of them. It’s disgusting and shameful. (Saying this as a liberal Zionist).
Again, please stop calling them "protestors." These aren't people holding signs and marching in circles chanting, "Free Mumia" and "Down with the 1%" and "Let us use Starbucks bathrooms!" Nor are they Mexicans and Central Americans sneaking across the U.S. Mexican border so that they can work as landscapers and dishwashers. They're trying to take down the barriers so they can invade en masse.

If half a million Mexicans massed at the U.S. southern border, announcing that they didn't recognize the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo and that they intended to seize or smash whatever they could, I assure you that even St. Obama would have used military force to prevent them from crossing.


EDIT: To clarify, half a million was to make more proportionate the number of the "protesters" involved vs. the size of Israel to the size of the U.S.
   81. McCoy Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:38 PM (#5671955)

Sure they are. "Getting hired by Fox or a K-street firm for big bucks after this #### show ends" is a common goal.


Yes but what I'm saying is that I think this administration is finding its offering outside of the WH to be rather limiting.
   82. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5671958)

John Hagee's demographic is happy that the death of humanity is that much closer in their theocratic dreams.
This is stupid on so many levels, just an expression of prejudice on your part. There are very few people who believe what you pretend, and even for those that do, I assure you that the location of the U.S. Embassy does not appear anywhere in their scripture.
   83. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5671961)
This is stupid on so many levels, just an expression of prejudice on your part. There are very few people who believe what you pretend, and even for those that do, I assure you that the location of the U.S. Embassy does not appear anywhere in their scripture.


You don't know what you're talking about here. I know these people. I know what they think and what they want.
   84. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5671962)
Setting aside the move itself, what is your opinion on using a Baptist Minister who has stated that Jews are going to Hell to provide the invocation for the opening of the Embassy?

As David noted previously, it's standard Christian doctrine that non-believers don't make the cut for admission to Heaven. Other religions have similar beliefs about the afterlife. So, it's pretty small potatoes to harp on this. I have no idea why this particular minister was selected, or whether there were better choices, but focusing on the invocation - actually just the prior comments of the minister, not the invocation itself - seems like an effort to distract from the merits of the Embassy move, or to tie it to other unrelated issues.
   85. zenbitz Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5671965)
Looks like it's Team Blue here that is out of step.


As usual, YC only cares about teams, not principles or outcomes.
   86. SY Ruined School Lunches! Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:45 PM (#5671966)
What are Israel’s borders, anyway? Hopefully the Palestinians can carry out their solemn duty of landing sick Call of Duty headshots on every Israeli who walks into the wrong part of the West Bank.
   87. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5671971)
What are Israel’s borders


Whatever they say they are. Might makes right after all.
   88. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:47 PM (#5671972)
If you haven't figured out by now that I'm not a fan of violent attacks by Palestinians, you probably never will. Should I just copy and paste the entire article the next time?

You keep lamenting that the attackers - who you are "not a fan of" - are getting killed. Perhaps you should advise them to stop their attacks?


I'll be glad to tell them that for both moral and political reasons, they should stick with nonviolent protests. Do you have the name and number of someone I could reach with this advice?
   89. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5671973)
Too bad they didn't bring tiki torches... no very fine people on both sides!
   90. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5671992)
You don't know what you're talking about here. I know these people. I know what they think and what they want.
Playing spin the bottle with your first cousins back in the early 80s doesn't count.
   91. Srul Itza Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5671993)
The move of the embassy is political theater. Nothing more.

In the absence of that move, Hamas would still be pushing these protests.

Gaza is a hopeless shitshow. We didn't need to move the Embassy to encourage these demonstrations-cum-border attacks.

With Hamas in charge, Gaza does nothing but breed desperation. They will keep coming, because why not? What else is there but to demonstrate and to attack?

They will keep coming, keep building tunnels, keep attacking the border fence, and Israel will continue to defend its borders.

When everything completely breaks down, some kind of massive epidemic will probably sweep Gaza. Horror will be heaped upon horror. And the world will watch and do nothing.

Unless it gets swept up in an Iranian-Israeli war sweeping down from Syria.

Either way, maybe the survivors will be able to build something at that point, other than tunnels and rockets.
   92. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:06 PM (#5671994)
You keep lamenting that the attackers - who you are "not a fan of" - are getting killed. Perhaps you should advise them to stop their attacks?

I'll be glad to tell them that for both moral and political reasons, they should stick with nonviolent protests. Do you have the name and number of someone I could reach with this advice?

It's a bit tricky, the Palestinian delegation is just down the road a bit from you, so you can probably drop in whenever you want, but Gaza is a Hamas operation, so you may have to improvise. Perhaps John Kerry can transmit your message as part of his "shadow diplomacy"? However, you may want to consider that every indicator suggests that Hamas totally rejects your non-violent approach. So, there is not really much reason for others to pretend they are a bunch of peaceful protestors, unless being thoroughly disingenuous.
   93. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:10 PM (#5671996)
Hopefully the Palestinians can carry out their solemn duty of landing sick Call of Duty headshots on every Israeli who walks into the wrong part of the West Bank.
Thanks for sharing your so-not-deranged fantasies with us.
   94. SY Ruined School Lunches! Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5671999)
The difference is I don’t actually believe that, but this thread will be full of honest justifications of snipers killing women and children all day. Cheers.
   95. SY Ruined School Lunches! Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5672000)
The conservative media is lockstep In praising Israeli for murdering people, they don’t consider this ‘deranged’ because they don’t consider Palestinians human in the same way that they are.
   96. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5672001)
I'll be glad to tell them that for both moral and political reasons, they should stick with nonviolent protests. Do you have the name and number of someone I could reach with this advice?
I don't mean to come down too hard because you're only guilty of separating any issue on the planet from Trump and a generous dose of naivete. Israel's liquidation was in Hamas' charter on day one and has never been repudiated. There's not a prayer of hope until Hamas is soundly defeated.
   97. tshipman Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5672002)
More great results from Trumpian diplomacy, though I'm sure seeing dozens of dead Palestinians is a feature rather than a bug to some people:

Indeed. With those "some people" being Hamas.


You know, this is very true. Hamas benefits from a state of perpetual aggression, much like the IRA.

I mean, that's why Israel should be especially motivated to avoid these kinds of things. The Troubles weren't resolved by stomping the IRA into submission. Sinn Fein was legitimized and disconnected from the IRA. The same will eventually have to happen with Hamas, but actions like these only embolden and empower the militant wings.

But whatever. I don't really care how often Israel decides to shoot itself in the foot anymore. I just want the US to stay away from it now.
   98. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5672003)
The conservative media is lockstep In praising Israeli for murdering people, they don’t consider this ‘deranged’ because they don’t consider Palestinians human in the same way that they are.

Israel bombs Gaza tunnel, closes key crossing after attack:
JERUSALEM (AP) — The Israeli military said Saturday it was shutting down its main cargo crossing into Gaza after Palestinian protesters caused extensive damage to it, and that it had also destroyed an attack tunnel militants dug near its main pedestrian crossing.

The twin developments come ahead of a potentially charged week along the Israel-Gaza border as weekly protests being staged there are expected to culminate with a potential breach of the border and a surge in casualties.
Maybe explain again why Hamas is trying to destroy the principal cargo crossing (which is how goods are delivered to Gaza residents) and breach Israel's borders?
   99. Zonk, Bearer of Responsibility Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5672004)
I don't mean to come down too hard because you're only guilty of separating any issue on the planet from Trump and a generous dose of naivete. Israel's liquidation was in Hamas' charter on day one and has never been repudiated. There's not a prayer of hope until Hamas is soundly defeated.


Given the significant disparities in military capabilities, it would seem like a sound defeat of Hamas ought to be relatively easy to accomplish.

So what's taking so long?
   100. Stormy JE Posted: May 14, 2018 at 02:27 PM (#5672008)
.pilF
Page 1 of 14 pages  1 2 3 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Dingbat_Charlie
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-21-2018
(1 - 8:54am, May 21)
Last: Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee)

NewsblogOTP 2018 May 21: President takes British royalty to a baseball game, May 15, 1991
(3 - 8:46am, May 21)
Last: Chicago Joe

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (April - June 2018)
(2038 - 8:44am, May 21)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogOT - 2017-18 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to End of Time edition)
(4570 - 8:40am, May 21)
Last: Rally

NewsblogOTP 2018 May 14: Political leadership, fans needed to bring baseball to Portland: Guest opinion
(1368 - 8:34am, May 21)
Last: Stormy JE

NewsblogDan Duquette, Orioles Understand Trading Manny Machado Seems Inevitable
(8 - 8:32am, May 21)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine

NewsblogHow gambling can help make baseball America's pastime again
(107 - 8:30am, May 21)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogOT: Winter Soccer Thread
(1981 - 7:24am, May 21)
Last: Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB)

NewsblogRobinson Cano Reportedly Suspended for PED
(248 - 6:39am, May 21)
Last: You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR)

NewsblogIllini rely on student who geeks out on baseball analytics
(24 - 12:27am, May 21)
Last: Chicago Joe

NewsblogWeekend OMNICHATTER for May 19-20, 2018
(249 - 11:17pm, May 20)
Last: Bote Man

NewsblogPirates set to recall outfield prospect Meadows
(4 - 5:05pm, May 20)
Last: Rennie's Tenet

Hall of Merit2019 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(116 - 11:30am, May 20)
Last: Bleed the Freak

NewsblogFortnite Addiction Is Becoming a Problem for Major League Basebal
(84 - 12:29am, May 20)
Last: GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag)

NewsblogTaking Back the Ballparks - Colorado Rockies
(39 - 7:15pm, May 19)
Last: Omineca Greg

Page rendered in 0.6243 seconds
47 querie(s) executed