Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, May 14, 2018

OTP 2018 May 14: Political leadership, fans needed to bring baseball to Portland: Guest opinion

Today I’m not writing to promote the virtues of Major League Baseball or Portland as a baseball city. I’m writing from the perspective of one who worked on the last successful effort to bring a professional sports team to town—the Portland Timbers—and as someone who has worked in state and local politics for nearly 30 years. Few situations are fraught with as much politics as bringing a professional sports team to a community. If you look closely at cities that have experienced these debates, you’ll often find a combustible mix of political, financial and cultural issues that run deep and can linger for years.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 14, 2018 at 07:28 AM | 1370 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: boondoggle, new stadium, off topic, politics, portland

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 3 of 14 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 >  Last ›
   201. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 08:35 PM (#5672306)
Setting aside the move itself, what is your opinion on using a Baptist Minister who has stated that Jews are going to Hell to provide the invocation for the opening of the Embassy?


My opinion is that the Baptist Minister's views are exceedingly silly. But, then, I don't see how this distinguishes his views from the views of any other religious person.

Thus I'm not sure how Trump is at fault here, other than, to some, Trump is always at fault.
   202. zenbitz Posted: May 14, 2018 at 08:43 PM (#5672309)
Uh I'm Jewish too, Ray.
   203. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 08:51 PM (#5672311)
Here's the politically incorrect truth: Israel and the Palestinians are never going to achieve peace. Never. The very best anyone can ever hope for is that the number of unnecessary deaths be limited. And moving the embassy was a deliberate provocation that ensured that those numbers would only increase. I'm sure you're satisfied now that you've made your point.

But there was absolutely no rational secular reason for that embassy to have been moved, other than for Trump to virtue signal to his base at home and in Israel. The reaction was 100% predictable, and Trump doesn't care about those deaths any more than those who egged on the demonstrators in the face of gunfire. Welcome to the world where domestic politics govern every move. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm neither an Israeli or a Palestinian.


"Provocation." Israel shouldn't have dressed their embassy in that short skirt.

Why would you blame the people who moved a building, rather than the people who did violence because a building was moved?
   204. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 08:55 PM (#5672314)
Uh I'm Jewish too, Ray


Show him your schmeckie.
   205. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 08:56 PM (#5672315)
Why would you blame the people who moved a building, rather than the people who did violence because a building was moved?

It isn't even that - they changed a sign on an existing U. S. diplomatic building. To call that a "provocation", rather than an excuse for rioting by those bent on violence, is to ignore reality.
   206. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 14, 2018 at 09:06 PM (#5672319)
It isn't even that - they changed a sign on an existing U. S. diplomatic building.


Yeah, that's all it is. Symbolism in international diplomacy is a big thing. Think not? Start calling Chinese Taipei the Republic of China or whatever they want to be called and watch China go apeshit.
   207. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 09:09 PM (#5672320)
I call Vatican City the International House of Popery (“The Other IHOP”). I don’t think anyone has a problem with that.
   208. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 09:15 PM (#5672325)
Yeah, that's all it is.


When it fits their whim, symbolism and signalling in international policy is the most important thing in the world. When it suits their whim, it's empty and meaningless and just a sign on a building.
   209. greenback slays lewks Posted: May 14, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5672379)
I call Vatican City the International House of Popery (“The Other IHOP”). I don’t think anyone has a problem with that.

Is this like a bat-signal for snapper?
   210. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 10:28 PM (#5672381)
Still a bit murky, but it looks like case against Eric Grietens has collapsed - Prosecutors Drop Sex Charges Against Missouri Governor:
Prosecutors on Monday abruptly dropped an invasion-of-privacy charge against Missouri Gov. Eric Greitens but said they still hope to pursue a case against him for allegedly taking a revealing photo of a woman with whom he has acknowledged having an affair. Greitens, who has long denied any criminal wrongdoing, emerged from the courthouse declaring vindication. His attorneys asserted the case had crumbled under a lack of evidence and doubted any charge will ever be refiled.
. . .
The prosecutor’s surprise move, announced after the third day of jury selection, came after the judge had granted a request by Greitens’ lawyers to call St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner as a witness for the defense. Greitens’ defense team has repeatedly criticized Gardner’s handling of the case, particularly her hiring of private investigator William Tisaby, whom Greitens’ lawyers have accused of perjury.

“The court’s order places the Circuit Attorney in the impossible position of being a witness, subject to cross-examination,” including by her own subordinates, Gardner spokeswoman Susan Ryan said in a statement.
. . .
Earlier Monday, Greitens’ attorneys said in court that prosecutors had stopped searching for evidence of the photo after failing to find it on Greitens’ cellphone or in cloud storage. “The case was going nowhere. There was no evidence to support any of the elements,” Greitens’ attorney Jim Bennett told reporters after the charge was dropped.

Defense attorneys have cited a litany of concerns about Gardner’s handling of the case. Among other things, they accused Tisaby, a former FBI agent, of lying when he said he did not take notes when he and Gardner on Jan. 29 interviewed the woman involved in the affair. A video of the interview belatedly provided to defense lawyers appears to show Tisaby taking notes.

Being cross-examined by your own subordinates is probably the easiest form of cross-examination, so I don't think that was the actual reason the DA pulled the plug. The direct examination might have been more of a problem. Greitens still carries the reputational damage for a sleazy affair with someone who turned on him, but that wouldn't seem all that likely to affect races when he isn't even on the ballot.
   211. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 14, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5672400)
Here's the politically incorrect truth: Israel and the Palestinians are never going to achieve peace. Never. The very best anyone can ever hope for is that the number of unnecessary deaths be limited. And moving the embassy was a deliberate provocation that ensured that those numbers would only increase. I'm sure you're satisfied now that you've made your point.

But there was absolutely no rational secular reason for that embassy to have been moved, other than for Trump to virtue signal to his base at home and in Israel. The reaction was 100% predictable, and Trump doesn't care about those deaths any more than those who egged on the demonstrators in the face of gunfire. Welcome to the world where domestic politics govern every move. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm neither an Israeli or a Palestinian.


"Provocation." Israel shouldn't have dressed their embassy in that short skirt.

Why would you blame the people who moved a building, rather than the people who did violence because a building was moved?


I've given up even trying to get you to read what I wrote. You seem to imply that I'm cheering on Palestinian violence, which is complete BS. I haven't even blamed the Israelis for their response. When your country is invaded, you act accordingly.

But since moving the embassy was something that the Americans and the Israelis knew in advance** would result in many unnecessary deaths, the fact remains that moving the embassy was at best a stupid move and at worst a deliberate provocation. There is nothing that having our embassy in Jerusalem accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished with its remaining in Tel Aviv. The move was strictly for domestic political purposes, and denying this doesn't negate the truth.

And none of this excuses the violence of the Palestinian response. It's simply an observation that night follows day.

** Trump may be stupid, but his intelligence agencies aren't, and neither are the Israelis'.
   212. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:01 PM (#5672403)
But since moving the embassy was something that the Americans and the Israelis knew in advance** would result in many unnecessary deaths, the fact remains that moving the embassy was at best a stupid move and at worst a deliberate provocation. There is nothing that having our embassy in Jerusalem accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished with its remaining in Tel Aviv. The move was strictly for domestic political purposes, and denying this doesn't negate the truth.


The US "embassy" in Taipei is called "The American Institute in Taiwan". Change the plaque to read ""The US Embassy to the Republic of China" and a war with a nuclear superpower breaks out.
   213. tshipman Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:02 PM (#5672406)
I agree with all of that, but at the same time I think it misses the point. The primary threat they pose isn't to the soldiers personally. The primary threat they pose is to public order in Israel more generally: if the barrier is breached and thousands (or tens of thousands) of people pour in, then what? They may not all be armed, but they're all dedicated to the elimination of Israel. They are not there to protest the U.S. moving its embassy; they are there to protest Israel existing. How is Israel supposed to corral all those people?


What's the best time to plant a tree? 20 years ago. What's the second best time? Today.

Best would have been for Israel to have a plan beyond shooting Palestinians 20 years ago. Better would have been for them to use non-lethal means to break up the fracas. Worst was what they did, which empowered Hamas, enforced a state of fear and perpetuated the dynamic longer.
   214. Lassus Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:09 PM (#5672419)
I think that the position that Israel can't defend itself against those wanting to fight their way through their border and kill them is idiotic.

I think the position that the embassy location is immaterial is idiotic.

I think the bewilderment/dismissal of the position that Israel could be handling this better is idiotic.

I think the idea that no Palestinians are a danger to Israel is idiotic.


I think that religion is the mental illness that causes the Fermi Paradox, and I think the people who love death outnumber the people who love cooperation.

I think everyone is wrong, I see no solution and no end, and my view of the situation makes Srul's seem optimistic.
   215. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5672424)
I've given up even trying to get you to read what I wrote. You seem to imply that I'm cheering on Palestinian violence, which is complete BS. I haven't even blamed the Israelis for their response. When your country is invaded, you act accordingly.


I don't say or imply that you're cheering on Palestinian violence; I say -- flat out -- that you're excusing it. I said that you're blaming the wrong side for it.

When one blames the wrong side for violence, one excuses said violence.

But since moving the embassy was something that the Americans and the Israelis knew in advance** would result in many unnecessary deaths, the fact remains that moving the embassy was at best a stupid move and at worst a deliberate provocation. There is nothing that having our embassy in Jerusalem accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished with its remaining in Tel Aviv. The move was strictly for domestic political purposes, and denying this doesn't negate the truth.

And none of this excuses the violence of the Palestinian response. It's simply an observation that night follows day.


All of this excuses it.

   216. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5672435)
I think the position that the embassy location is immaterial is idiotic.


I don't think it's immaterial. It was done for a reason and I agree with the reason.

I think it's not "provocation."

Not among sane people, anyway.
   217. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:21 PM (#5672440)
I don't think it's immaterial. It was done for a reason and I agree with the reason.

I think it's not "provocation."


Would recognizing Taipei as the capital of the ROC be provocative?

You know it's the capital. I know it's the capital. The US government knows it's the capital. The PRC knows it's the capital. The whole world knows it's the capital. Yet, if we do so, a war between superpowers breaks out.
   218. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:24 PM (#5672444)
All of this excuses it.

Apparently you don't understand the difference between excusing an action and being able to predict it as surely as tomorrow's sunrise.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I think the position that the embassy location is immaterial is idiotic.

I don't think it's immaterial. It was done for a reason and I agree with the reason.

I guess virtue signaling is a reason of sorts.

Again, what can be accomplished with our embassy in Jerusalem that couldn't be accomplished if it had remained in Tel Aviv?
   219. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:31 PM (#5672451)
This is what is known as an unconstitutional prior restraint on speech - Arkansas Judge Issues Injunction Barring Election Ads Critical Of State Supreme Court Justice Running For Re-Election:
A judge in Washington County has issued a temporary restraining order to several television broadcasters, ordering them to stop airing ads against Supreme Court Justice Courtney Goodson that her lawyers claim are “false, misleading and defamatory.”

Some thoughts from, IMHO, the leading active 1st Amendment scholar:
There's a hot controversy about whether permanent injunctions against repeating libels, entered after a finding on the merits that the speech is libelous, are constitutional. But even courts that allow such permanent injunctions agree: An injunction issued before such an adjudication on the merits, and especially a temporary restraining order issued without any meaningful hearing, is a clearly unconstitutional "prior restraint," and violates the First Amendment. Thus, for instance, the California Supreme Court in Balboa Island Village Inn, Inc. v. Lemen (2007) concluded:
An injunction, issued only following a determination at trial that the enjoined statements are defamatory, does not constitute a prohibited prior restraint of expression. "Once specific expressional acts are properly determined to be unprotected by the first amendment, there can be no objection to their subsequent suppression or prosecution."

And the focus on "following a determination at trial" was no accident; immediately after that, the court favorably cited a law review article for the proposition that,
In certain instances prior restraints are appropriately disfavored … because of the coincidental harm to fully protected expression that results from the preliminary restraint imposed prior to a decision on the merits of a final restraint. … Such interim restraints present a threat to first amendment rights … that expression will be abridged … prior to a full and fair hearing before an independent judicial forum to determine the scope of the speaker's constitutional right.
. . .
Here, there was no trial, no "final determination" and no "decision on the merits"—just a temporary restraining order presumably based (in relevant part) on a conclusion that the plaintiff showed a "likelihood of success on the merits." That is no basis for restricting speech, even for a few days, especially (but only) criticism of a high government official during an election campaign.

That there may be a rebuttal to a political ad, even an effective one, isn't grounds for suppressing it. Interesting that an appeal here, if needed, could go before the court on which the offended candidate sits.
   220. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:41 PM (#5672459)
All of this excuses it.

Apparently you don't understand the difference between excusing an action and being able to predict it as surely as tomorrow's sunrise.


Apparently you don't understand the definition of excusing.
   221. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:47 PM (#5672462)
They may not all be armed, but they're all dedicated to the elimination of Israel


And every one of them believes fundamentally and without question that Israel is fully dedicated to the elimination of the concept of "Palestine." And they're not particularly "wrong" in that regard. Everyone wants to murder everyone over there.
   222. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:54 PM (#5672465)
And every one of them believes fundamentally and without question that Israel is fully dedicated to the elimination of the concept of "Palestine." And they're not particularly "wrong" in that regard. Everyone wants to murder everyone over there.


Bizarre and telling false equivalency.
   223. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5672467)
Your continuing need to be an idiot isn’t on me Ray.
   224. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:08 AM (#5672468)
They may not all be armed, but they're all dedicated to the elimination of Israel

And every one of them believes fundamentally and without question that Israel is fully dedicated to the elimination of the concept of "Palestine." And they're not particularly "wrong" in that regard. Everyone wants to murder everyone over there.

That's quite an admission, as noted in #222. This might be a better way to put it:
I think you're always going to have tension in the Middle East when there's people who want to kill the Jews and Jews who don't want to be killed and neither side is willing to compromise.

Heh.
   225. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:23 AM (#5672470)
But since moving the embassy was something that the Americans and the Israelis knew in advance** would result in many unnecessary deaths,
But that's false. The move didn't result in any deaths. Again: these "protests" have nothing to do with the embassy. They're simply a new tactic by Hamas that started a month and a half ago, which they call the "Great March of Return." Again: they don't recognize Israel in the first place, so an embassy in Tel Aviv is no more acceptable to them than an embassy in Jerusalem.

the fact remains that moving the embassy was at best a stupid move and at worst a deliberate provocation. There is nothing that having our embassy in Jerusalem accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished with its remaining in Tel Aviv. The move was strictly for domestic political purposes, and denying this doesn't negate the truth.
Not sure why you think that saying it's political is an argument against it. And you ignore the fact that Clapper already posted a link earlier in this thread explaining what the move accomplishes: it puts pressure on the Palestinians to make a deal. They (not unreasonably) believe that if they just keep up their intransigence, eventually other countries will coerce Israel into surrendering to alter the status quo. This move tells the Palestinians that this is a miscalculation, that their position won't get better simply by virtue of stubbornness. Either they seriously come to the table, or they become irrelevant.
   226. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:34 AM (#5672476)
Best would have been for Israel to have a plan beyond shooting Palestinians 20 years ago.
Coincidentally, 20 years ago was about when Israel accepted yet another peace proposal by the U.S., only to see Araat torpedo it yet again.
Better would have been for them to use non-lethal means to break up the fracas.
Maybe you can answer better than Count exactly what non-lethal means they did not employ that you think they should have.
Worst was what they did, which empowered Hamas, enforced a state of fear and perpetuated the dynamic longer.
Hamas was already empowered. (Where's BM to tell you that if the Palestinians choose to support Hamas, all the blame falls on them, because personal responsibility?) They can't get more empowered.
   227. greenback slays lewks Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:36 AM (#5672477)
Either they seriously come to the table, or they become irrelevant.

"Irrelevant" isn't an apt description for what's happening in the Gaza ghetto.
   228. perros Posted: May 15, 2018 at 01:05 AM (#5672480)
The smart politician needs to go back to paying women up front to go away after sex.
   229. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 15, 2018 at 02:03 AM (#5672486)

Would recognizing Taipei as the capital of the ROC be provocative?

You know it's the capital. I know it's the capital. The US government knows it's the capital. The PRC knows it's the capital. The whole world knows it's the capital. Yet, if we do so, a war between superpowers breaks out.


Recognizing the ROC itself as a nation would be the controversial act there, not the placement of the embassy.

The U.S. recognized the State of Israel nearly 70 years ago.
   230. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 02:20 AM (#5672488)
And every one of them believes fundamentally and without question that Israel is fully dedicated to the elimination of the concept of "Palestine." And they're not particularly "wrong" in that regard. Everyone wants to murder everyone over there.
EDIT: What Dave said.

Try again, Misirlou.
   231. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 02:30 AM (#5672490)
"Irrelevant" isn't an apt description for what's happening in the Gaza ghetto.
A "ghetto" with shopping malls and luxury cars? Oh right, it's just like Warsaw!

Also, let's go back into time to 2005 and the immediate aftermath of Israel's unilateral withdrawal from Gaza:

This is from Al Jazeera:
The theft of entire greenhouses and their equipment has put out of action about 70 acres of the roughly 1000 acres left by Jewish settlers as the basis of a Palestinian agriculture industry when Israel withdrew from Gaza last September.

The looting began when gunmen from a militia hired to protect the greenhouses abandoned their posts early this month because they had not been paid, officials from a government company that operates the project said.

"The looters took their time to dismantle the greenhouses and to uproot entire greenhouses and carry them away," said Amid al-Masri, head of the Palestine Economic Development Company's (PEDC) greenhouse project.

The Palestinian Authority project was set up with the help of private donors who paid $13 million to Jewish settlers to leave their greenhouses intact after the withdrawal.
This is from the Daily News:
A week after they descended like locusts on the greenhouses that Jewish settlers nurtured in Gaza, looters continue to pillage what should be a prize asset for a fledgling Palestinian state. And the Palestinian Authority, which took over Gaza after the Israelis evacuated the territory, appears powerless to stop them. When a Daily News correspondent visited abandoned Jewish settlements in Gaza, he found brazen vandals dismantling farms that once produced some of the world's finest tomatoes, cucumbers and peppers. The now-gutted greenhouses were gifts to the Palestinian people from U.S. philanthropists, who raised $14 million to buy them from departing settlers. "It was our work for a long time and it was supposed to help even more people now," said heartbroken Zaki Karim, 51, a Palestinian who worked at greenhouses in what was the Gadid settlement. "But it's a mess."

Palestinian Interior Ministry spokesman Tawfiq Abu Qusa insisted the damage was limited to 30% of the 4,000 or so greenhouses - and blamed most of the vandalism on spiteful Jewish settlers. "The Palestinians damaged so little you can't even count it," he said. One of the philanthropists, Daily News Chairman and Publisher Mortimer B. Zuckerman, called that assertion "ridiculous."

"We thought it was a chance to show the Palestinians that there were more benefits from cooperation than confrontation," Zuckerman said. "I'm just sad that they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. ... It's almost inexplicable."

The World Bank reported 90% of the greenhouses were intact when the Israelis left. Facts on the ground reveal that much of that bounty is now gone. "All over Gush Katif the greenhouses have been damaged and a lot was stolen from them," Karim said, referring to former Jewish settlements in southwest Gaza. In Gadid, much of the expensive equipment used to tend the crops was stolen. So were the water pumps, irrigation lines and all the fuse boxes. At the former Katif settlement, a Palestinian soldier, Pvt. Mohamed Cidawi, said looters made off with most of the metal support beams and even stole the plastic and canvas coverings that protected the vegetables from the hot sun. "Go away," Cidawi shouted when he spied a boy with a sledge hammer preparing to smash a fuse box. "If I see you here another time, I'll kick your ass!
   232. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 02:40 AM (#5672493)
When it fits their whim, symbolism and signalling in international policy is the most important thing in the world. When it suits their whim, it's empty and meaningless and just a sign on a building.
The embassy move by itself doesn't immpact a Gaza resident's life in any meaningful way.

Don't forget the bloody obvious: The United States, not Israel, was moving an embassy based on the enforcement of an act passed by the United States Congress well over 20 years ago.

And TBH, the embassy move was more of a priority for folks in the States. If you asked 100 Israeli government officials whether this diplomatic move was more important than convincing Washington to withdraw all military support for the Hezbollah-controlled Lebanese Armed Forces, my guess is a healthy majority would have said NO.
   233. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 03:00 AM (#5672495)
From the Gaza Now Facebook page:
"Breaking: Gaza Now Correspondent: Official: Today at 3:30pm the Palestinian people will enter the border to liberate the Palestinian land occupied in 1948. More than half a million Palestinians are at the border and tens of thousands of others are still arriving."
"To liberate?" "Palestinian land?" "1948?" "Half a million?"

Yeah, this ain't Selma. This isn't even a riot. This is both an attempted mass suicide attack and reminder that Hamas and its current patron in Tehran wants the region Judenfrei.
   234. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 03:22 AM (#5672496)
Just like MLK's March on Washington!
Posts plastered all over Facebook instructing protesters to bring guns, knives, infiltrate Israel en masse, invade nearby villages and kidnap Israelis. Special 'thanks' to @facebook community standards team for enabling this.
   235. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 15, 2018 at 03:43 AM (#5672497)
A "ghetto" with shopping malls and luxury cars? Oh right, it's just like Warsaw!


There are also shopping malls and luxury cars in Camden, and Compton, and Detroit, and Memphis and Baltimore and Jackson and St. Louis and Chicago and Washington DC.

Two existentially immovable positions of fear and hate and agonizing history. I can't wait to see which will win the logical argument!
   236. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 03:54 AM (#5672498)
There are also shopping malls and luxury cars in Camden, and Compton, and Detroit, and Memphis and Baltimore and Jackson and St. Louis and Chicago and Washington DC.

Two existentially immovable positions of fear and hate and agonizing history. I can't wait to see which will win the logical argument!
Bullshit. The use of "ghetto" WRT Gaza was referring to its historical meaning involving Jews, not modern-day Camden.
   237. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 15, 2018 at 06:07 AM (#5672500)
Juan will tell you what you meant to say, whitey.
   238. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 15, 2018 at 07:33 AM (#5672505)
While you hippies are obsessing over fake news, Tucker Carlson and Fox News are perusing the stories the MSM is afraid to tell you.

Geezus the knot on his tie really annoys me. Pathetic.
   239. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 07:34 AM (#5672506)
So none of you Trumpkins talking about Trump's brave bid to save Chinese jobs? Hmmm.
   240. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 15, 2018 at 08:15 AM (#5672511)
Don't forget the bloody obvious: The United States, not Israel, was moving an embassy


Way to blame America first.
   241. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 15, 2018 at 08:20 AM (#5672512)
But since moving the embassy was something that the Americans and the Israelis knew in advance** would result in many unnecessary deaths, the fact remains that moving the embassy was at best a stupid move and at worst a deliberate provocation. There is nothing that having our embassy in Jerusalem accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished with its remaining in Tel Aviv. The move was strictly for domestic political purposes, and denying this doesn't negate the truth.

And none of this excuses the violence of the Palestinian response. It's simply an observation that night follows day.

** Trump may be stupid, but his intelligence agencies aren't, and neither are the Israelis'.


But that's false. The move didn't result in any deaths.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently you don't understand the difference between excusing an action and being able to predict it as surely as tomorrow's sunrise.

Apparently you don't understand the definition of excusing.


If what I wrote was false, then let me pose this question to the two of you: Were either of you surprised by yesterday's events? Couldn't you have predicted them just as easily as everyone else in the world?

(Well, maybe Ray couldn't have, but David doesn't have the excuse of being a complete political illiterate.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the fact remains that moving the embassy was at best a stupid move and at worst a deliberate provocation. There is nothing that having our embassy in Jerusalem accomplishes that couldn't be accomplished with its remaining in Tel Aviv. The move was strictly for domestic political purposes, and denying this doesn't negate the truth.

Not sure why you think that saying it's political is an argument against it.


Because it accomplished absolutely nothing other than predictable violence and death.

And again, virtue signaling is not an accomplishment.

And you ignore the fact that Clapper already posted a link earlier in this thread explaining what the move accomplishes: it puts pressure on the Palestinians to make a deal. They (not unreasonably) believe that if they just keep up their intransigence, eventually other countries will coerce Israel into surrendering to alter the status quo. This move tells the Palestinians that this is a miscalculation, that their position won't get better simply by virtue of stubbornness. Either they seriously come to the table, or they become irrelevant.

Israel has been waiting for the Palestinians to buckle under military might for a lot longer than you've been alive. Just as the Palestinians have been waiting for Israel to give them what they want out of a varying mixture of guilt, battle fatigue, and international pressure.

How have either of those expectations been working out?

And what's that definition of insanity that you're always so fond of quoting?

   242. McCoy Posted: May 15, 2018 at 08:21 AM (#5672513)
One of the cnn talking heads last night, Brian setter or something, has a really annoying chunky loose knot tie and it made me want to disagree with whatever position he was taking. These people don’t have people that work on their wardrobe?
   243. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 15, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5672514)
Don't forget the bloody obvious: The United States, not Israel, was moving an embassy based on the enforcement of an act passed by the United States Congress well over 20 years ago.

And TBH, the embassy move was more of a priority for folks in the States.


That's the first 100% true statement you've written since this sub-thread began. Thanks for confirming what I've been saying all along----and please note that I wasn't exempting Democrats from their responsibility for this.
   244. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 15, 2018 at 08:40 AM (#5672518)

If what I wrote was false, then let me pose this question to the two of you: Were either of you surprised by yesterday's events? Couldn't you have predicted them just as easily as everyone else in the world?
Couldn't I have predicted that activities that have been ongoing since March would continue to occur? Yeah. Not sure what your point is.
   245. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 08:54 AM (#5672519)
I found this an interesting article, not a whole lot new or super surprising, but still interesting. And yes, the Mueller Investigation, like the Mills of God, continues to grind away.

Airports Are One of Mueller’s Strongest Investigative Tools

They are pulled out of line and questioned exhaustively. All their electronic devices are temporarily seized and their information is recorded. It’s likely that, once released, their movements and activities within the country are shadowed and memorialized.

The latest example is Stephan Roh, a German (or perhaps Swiss) citizen and multimillionaire whose wife, Olga Roh, is “a Russian fashion designer who appeared on the British reality TV show Meet the Russians.” According to a book Roh co-authored that is scheduled for publication in June, he was detained at JFK airport in October 2017 and interrogated about his relationship with Maltese Professor Joseph Mifsud. (For background, I’ve written about Professor Mifsud extensively. See here, here, here, here, and here).


Note: Yes, yes I do find the conversation around Israel and Palestine pointless even for this thread, why do you ask?
   246. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: May 15, 2018 at 09:15 AM (#5672524)
So none of you Trumpkins talking about Trump's brave bid to save Chinese jobs? Hmmm.


It was mentioned... in context with the mere 'coincidence' that the Chinese are going to dump a few hundred million into an Indonesian Trump Hotel.

But no one cares because bog standard grifting by Trump using American foreign policy as the get is apparently, among the more benign Trump sins.

Heckuva pick, fellas.
   247. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5672527)
But no one cares because bog standard grifting by Trump using American foreign policy as the get is apparently, among the more benign Trump sins.


And, you know, betraying the central thesis of his campaign. But hey, he annoys liberals and so is the bestest president ever!
   248. BDC Posted: May 15, 2018 at 09:37 AM (#5672530)
no one cares because bog standard grifting by Trump using American foreign policy as the get is apparently, among the more benign Trump sins

To be fair, the Indonesians might once have bought a bag of peanuts from Billy Carter.
   249. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 15, 2018 at 09:45 AM (#5672533)
If what I wrote was false, then let me pose this question to the two of you: Were either of you surprised by yesterday's events? Couldn't you have predicted them just as easily as everyone else in the world?

Couldn't I have predicted that activities that have been ongoing since March would continue to occur? Yeah.


Cue Ray to now ask why you're excusing it.

Not sure what your point is.

Only that there was no point to moving the embassy beyond domestic political considerations. I've yet to hear of a single positive thing that the move actually accomplished beyond Trump's version of virtue signaling.


   250. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 15, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5672538)
Couldn't I have predicted that activities that have been ongoing since March would continue to occur? Yeah.

Cue Ray to now ask why you're excusing it.
That doesn’t even pretend to make logical sense. It’s not the predicting that’s at issue. It’s the causal relationship you’re drawing.

What I said: “I can predict that a person who is doing bad things will keep doing them.”
What you said: “I can predict that if a person is provoked, he will do a bad thing.”
   251. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 15, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5672539)
The Daily 202: Trump voters stay loyal because they feel disrespected

@radiofreetom:
This is an interesting read, esp about "respect," which Trump voters see only going one way. Their dramatic, almost child-like sense of grievance about people saying bad things about them is the kind of thing conservatives used to ridicule - in liberals and minorities.

@davidafrench:
Actual conversation I had recently with a very wealthy GOP donor.

Her: Sorry, David, that there were so many racist taunts directed at your daughter in the campaign.

Me: Thank you.

Her: But, to be fair, you Never Trumpers were pretty condescending.
   252. BDC Posted: May 15, 2018 at 10:00 AM (#5672541)
I don't know how one is supposed to show respect for the views of Trump supporters. Can anyone help me out? Am I supposed to say things like, "Gosh, you guys may have a point about Mexican knife-rapists"?
   253. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5672543)
The so-called leaks coming out of the White House are a massive over exaggeration put out by the Fake News Media in order to make us look as bad as possible. With that being said, leakers are traitors and cowards, and we will find out who they are!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 14, 2018


Do you guys really feel OK defending, excusing, and enabling this moron? I get he is part of your almighty tribe, but man your tribe is asking a lot from you.

   254. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 15, 2018 at 10:09 AM (#5672544)
Notably, people in all seven of their categories expressed frustration, even a year after the election, that they are not understood, respected or valued by the powers that be on the East and West coasts.


If you want to be respected, stop supporting Donald Trump. If you support Donald Trump, you don't deserve to be respected.
   255. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5672549)
EDIT: What Dave said.

Try again, Misirlou.


??? That wasn't me.
   256. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 15, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5672550)
Near the first anniversary of the president taking office, Glazier worried especially that those who voted for Trump are now viewed by others as therefore being like Trump. “I’m far from being a racist,” he said. “I’m far from being a bigot. Not everybody makes the crude comments. Not everybody walks and talks like he’s a big bully, like the president can do sometimes.”


You slept with the man. Of course people assume you've contracted the diseases. Idiot.
   257. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 15, 2018 at 10:17 AM (#5672552)
Do you guys really feel OK defending, excusing, and enabling this moron?


Of course they do. They get their wars. Muslims get killed. They'll embrace anything for that.
   258. perros Posted: May 15, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5672554)
Way to blame America first.

Ten million dollars a day in military aid.
   259. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 10:21 AM (#5672558)
Heckuva pick, fellas.


haven't you heard? It's your fault.
   260. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 15, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5672593)
Couldn't I have predicted that activities that have been ongoing since March would continue to occur? Yeah.

Cue Ray to now ask why you're excusing it.

That doesn’t even pretend to make logical sense. It’s not the predicting that’s at issue. It’s the causal relationship you’re drawing.


What I said: “I can predict that a person who is doing bad things will keep doing them.”
What you said: “I can predict that if a person is provoked, he will do a bad thing.”


For sake of argument, let's accept your implicit view that the Palestinians are congenital mad dog Jew haters who simply thrill in attacking Israel without any provocation. I'm still not quite sure what the point is in taking a stick and poking that mad dog in the nose, which is exactly what Trump did with that wholly unnecessary embassy move.

Again, it was a move for which neither you nor anyone else has been able to cite a credibly rational reason for making, other than trying to solidify Trump's domestic political base of right wing Jews and evangelical Christian flamers like Jeffress and Hagee.
   261. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5672595)
Of course they do. They get their wars. Muslims get killed. They'll embrace anything for that.
It's adorable reading this drek from a dude with the Anglo-est of Anglo FB friends and whose travel typically involves shifting his sorry ass from one couch cushion to another.
   262. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5672598)
??? That wasn't me.
You weren't the one who twice last night offered up a Taiwan/China example?
   263. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5672601)
It's adorable reading this drek from a dude with the Anglo-est of Anglo FB friends and whose travel typically involves shifting his sorry ass from one couch cushion to another.


Actually, Sam travels like mad for work-related purposes, doesn't he?

(As opposed to me, whose only journeys -- aside from a quick jaunt to Atlanta this winter -- more than 10 miles from my house have been treks to & from Arkansas, & with my sister's death those are likely to cease completely.)
   264. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5672605)
I'm still not quite sure what the point is in taking a stick and poking that mad dog in the nose, which is exactly what Trump did with that wholly unnecessary embassy move.


Short skirts are wholly unnecessary as well. Didn't know you were a slut-shamer, Jolly.
   265. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5672608)
216. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 14, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5672435)
I think the position that the embassy location is immaterial is idiotic.

I don't think it's immaterial. It was done for a reason and I agree with the reason.

I think it's not "provocation."

Not among sane people, anyway.
Still throwing in gratuitous ad hominems, I see. Ray loves being Ray!
   266. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5672609)
Actually, Sam travels like mad for work-related purposes, doesn't he?
Maybe at his old gig he traveled to Seacacus and other exotic ports of call.

(As opposed to me, whose only journeys -- aside from a quick jaunt to Atlanta this winter -- more than 10 miles from my house have been treks to & from Arkansas, & with my sister's death those are likely to cease completely.)
OTOH, you've yet to demonize anyone who disagrees with you on foreign policy as being gleeful over the deaths of thousands of Muslim men, women, and children.
   267. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5672616)
RIP Tom Wolfe, 87. A helluva writer.
   268. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:40 AM (#5672619)
RIP Tom Wolfe, 87. A helluva writer.

That he was, even if he was a bit full of himself. And if the funeral arrangers have any sense of the man, they'll be sure to bury him in one of his many white suits.
   269. zenbitz Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5672624)
Hey no matter how bad your day was, at least you weren't born in Gaza.
   270. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5672627)
Allianz making plans to wind down Iran business:
LONDON (Reuters) - German insurer Allianz (ALVG.DE) is preparing to wind down Iran-related business due to possible U.S. sanctions, a spokesman said on Tuesday.

“We are analyzing our portfolio to identify Iran-related business,” he said in an e-mailed statement.
Well, that didn't take long. Contra the Iran apologists' dire warnings, choosing between the US and Iranian markets ain't so hard.
   271. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5672629)
Well, that didn't take long. Contra the Iran apologists' dire warnings, choosing between the US and Iranian markets ain't so hard.


Yeah, thank goodness they won't have access to Insurance now. I am sure that will cause them to not restart their nuclear program.

Now back to the real world, where a nuclear free Iran was a good thing.
   272. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5672631)
Now back to the real world, where a nuclear free Iran was a good thing.
Point us to where anyone has claimed in the past week-plus Iran's racing toward a nuke?
   273. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5672632)
Hey no matter how bad your day was, at least you weren't born in Gaza.
Unless you're a Hamas senior official, in which case you're too important to be used as a human shield.
   274. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:00 PM (#5672638)
Point us to where anyone has claimed in the past week-plus Iran's racing toward a nuke?


Excuse me? What on Earth are you demanding? How silly are you planning to get on this subject?

The US unilaterally withdrew from the agreement which was designed to keep Iran nuke free. We pissed off our European allies and gave Iran every incentive in the world to restart their nuclear program, leaving our European allies desperately trying to piece together enough incentives to keep Iran from doing so. Your demand is silly and dumb.

But at least one German insurance company is thinking about unwinding its business from Iran. Thank goodness for that! I hear Iran was this close to weaponizing German insurance against the West!
   275. Lassus Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5672641)
Point us to where anyone has claimed in the past week-plus Iran's racing toward a nuke?

Isn't that what you posted that Bibi said in his Powerpoint? I may have misunderstood.
   276. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5672643)
The US unilaterally withdrew from the agreement which was designed to save face for Obama as he abandoned attempts to keep Iran nuke free.
FIFY.


But at least one German insurance company is thinking about unwinding its business from Iran. Thank goodness for that! I hear Iran was this close to weaponizing German insurance against the West!
Stupid is stupid. The point is that contrary to what you think, the U.S. has leverage. Other countries can't ignore the U.S. position regardless of some made up international agreement.
   277. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5672644)
Well, that didn't take long. Contra the Iran apologists' dire warnings, choosing between the US and Iranian markets ain't so hard.

Yeah, thank goodness they won't have access to Insurance now. I am sure that will cause them to not restart their nuclear program.

Careful readers of this space will remember that when the sanctions were reimposed, some suggested that U.S. companies would just be supplanted by European companies, costing us business without harming Iran much. When it was noted that wasn't how the sanctions worked, and that companies dealing with Iran in violation of the sanctions wouldn't be able to do business in the U.S., there were claims that it must be "more complex" then that, followed by silence. Now, the fall-back position appears to be that the sanctions won't work, because Iran is so determined to become a nuclear power. Hmmm.
   278. Omineca Greg Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:08 PM (#5672645)
I'm tired of listening to your First World Problems. Right now, the gungtong epidemic in Bhutan is really getting bad...

For the last three years, a farmer of Gangtokha village in Barshong gewog, Tsirang, has been cultivating lands belonging to three households.

The farmer, RK Moktan, 54, said he does that to save his crops from wildlife.

“My neighbours on whose land I cultivate migrated to urban areas, leaving their houses empty and land fallow,” he said. “I started cultivating on their lands after seeking their approval over the phone.”

Today, the land is filled with maize and fodder for cattle.

RK Moktan has his reasons for cultivating fallow lands.

He said if the land were left fallow, it would turn into a jungle and invite wild animals. “I’m cultivating it to ward off wild animals from my crops.”

As payment for cultivating the land, he has to contribute labour for the owners.

Of the 12 gewogs in Tsirang, Barshong has the highest number of gungtongs. There are 126 empty houses, according to records maintained by the dzongkhag. Chunikhang and Gangtokha chiwog have the maximum gungtongs.

Barshong gup, Santa Lal Powdel, said there are three types of gungtongs. “There are gungtongs with empty houses and uncultivated farms; uncultivated land without a house while the third type is that a family has census and household number in the gewog but no property.”

He said that whichever type it is, it affects while planning for developmental activities in the gewog. “When there are gungtongs, others in the villages are affected.”

Human-wildlife conflict, he said, is one impact.

With 72 empty houses, Phungtenchu gewog has the second highest number of gungtongs. The largest chiwog, Tashichhoeling has the highest number of gungtongs.

However, the gewog mangmi, Jamphel, said that although figures maintained by the dzongkhag administration are high, there are only about 35 households that are vacant in the gewog.

“It could be the type of gungtong that made the difference in figures,” he said.

He also said gungtongs impact the gewog when it comes to planning and budgeting.

The mangmi explained that when the owner of the property does not live in the village, what the gewog plans for them and their demand later contradicts. “While the owners rarely visit the village, it is also difficult to trace them. Some have defaulted insurances and tax payments.”

Other gewogs like Kilkhorthang has 31 gungtongs, Gosarling has 13, Doonglagang has 12 and Semjong has 12. Tsholingkhar gewog has four gungtongs.


link

Not that I'd expect anyone here to actually care. How many gungtongs did Detroit have? People just treated it like a joke. Let's face it, that's the way you Yanks are, if it's not affecting your own little personal gewog, you just don't give a damn.
   279. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5672646)
Isn't that what you posted that Bibi said in his Powerpoint? I may have misunderstood.
You misunderstood. Netanyahu showed that the regime in Tehran had lied about its nuclear program and that it retained its secret files even after the agreement.
   280. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:12 PM (#5672648)
You weren't the one who twice last night offered up a Taiwan/China example?


I was, but I had nothing to do with the quote you responded to.
   281. Lassus Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5672650)
Netanyahu showed that the regime in Tehran had lied about its nuclear program

"These files conclusively prove that Iran is brazenly lying when it says it never had a nuclear weapons program," he said.
"The nuclear deal gives Iran a clear path to producing an atomic arsenal," he said Monday.
These quotes don't satisfy your "show me who says Iran is racing towards a nuke" qualification? (I'm not commenting on the veracity of this information, just what Bibi was saying.)
   282. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:19 PM (#5672651)
I was, but I had nothing to do with the quote you responded to.
I must be dreaming then because it sure seemed at the time like Dave and I agreed that there's a yuge difference between moving an embassy from one city to another inside of a country with whom we've had diplomatic representation for 70 years and recognizing Beijing (Peking back then) as China while simultaneously de-recognizing Taipei.
   283. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:22 PM (#5672658)
These quotes don't satisfy your "show me who says Iran is racing towards a nuke" qualification? (I'm not commenting on the veracity of this information, just what Bibi was saying.)
The latter quote refers to the sunset provisions.
   284. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5672659)
I must be dreaming then because it sure seemed at the time like Dave and I agreed that there's a yuge difference between moving an embassy from one city to another inside of a country with whom we've had diplomatic representation for 70 years and recognizing Beijing (Peking back then) as China while simultaneously de-recognizing Taipei.


yes, but this quote:

And every one of them believes fundamentally and without question that Israel is fully dedicated to the elimination of the concept of "Palestine." And they're not particularly "wrong" in that regard. Everyone wants to murder everyone over there.


which you responded to with this:


EDIT: What Dave said.

Try again, Misirlou.


Had nothing to do with that.
   285. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5672662)
I'm tired of listening to your First World Problems. Right now, the gungtong epidemic in Bhutan is really getting bad...
Now you show up. You were suspiciously absent during the floating foot discussion. Been out to the coast lately, OGreg?
   286. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:30 PM (#5672663)
Stupid is stupid. The point is that contrary to what you think, the U.S. has leverage. Other countries can't ignore the U.S. position regardless of some made up international agreement.


Indeed. Stupid, like pretending I ever said the US had no leverage. Stupid like referencing "some made up international agreement" free of context. Yup, stupid.
   287. Stormy JE Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5672664)
Had nothing to do with that.
Fair enough.
   288. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:38 PM (#5672669)
JE and others celebrate a German insurance company unwinding doing business with Iran, but ignore the Chinese manufacturer ZTE that Trump is trying to save from US sanctions based on it doing business in Iran.
   289. Lassus Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5672670)
The latter quote refers to the sunset provisions.

OK. I guess I would read those quotes differently than you do.
   290. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:40 PM (#5672673)
Actually, Sam travels like mad for work-related purposes, doesn't he?


I haven't traveled abroad for a few years now. Last few trans-Atlantic trips were European destinations. I don't fly on lobby-cash funded junkets for drinks with the ladies in Istanbul, so I guess that doesn't count for Jason.
   291. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:42 PM (#5672675)
OK. I guess I would read those quotes differently than you do.


As would he, if reading them differently spun his bullshit a little faster. The point is not to read or not to read them in a given way. It is to spin the world as fast as possible to prop up your ideological bias.
   292. Srul Itza Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5672677)
The primary threat they pose isn't to the soldiers personally. The primary threat they pose is to public order in Israel more generally: if the barrier is breached and thousands (or tens of thousands) of people pour in, then what?



Except: They are not really trying to do this. Has this not yet occurred to you?

They have not really come close to breaching the border. They have not sent enough people, well enough armed, to do the job, or even come close. If they really wanted to breach, they would mobilize those tens of thousands of people, or more, and really attack.

What they want, is dead bodies for the news. The more, the better. So they can paint Israel in as dark a light as possible. So they knowingly send dozens to their death -- encouraging them with promises and lies -- to create the narrative of the cruel, bloodthirsty Isrealis killing men, women and children "demonstrators". These are suicide bombers without the exploding vests, some of whom are indeed tossing bombs -- with little real tactical effect, except to ensure that they draw fire.

And Israel is happy to oblige by opening fire.

And the wheel goes round and round and round.
   293. Srul Itza Posted: May 15, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5672679)
Either they seriously come to the table


to talk to who?

Bibi?

So he can do his best Michael Corleone imitation: "This is my offer to you: Nothing"

Bibi does not want a two state solution. Bibi has no intention of giving up the West Bank, because too many of his supporters want the whole thing.

There is nothing to talk about. There is only killing or dying.

Whenever one side might be willing to talk, the maximalists on its side, or the other, torpedo any chance.

The Palestinian maximalists want what they cannot have: Full right of return. And they will die on that hill.

The Israeli maximalist want Judea and Samaria, all of it. And they will die on that hill.

And the wheel goes round and round and round.
   294. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 15, 2018 at 01:00 PM (#5672680)
Exit polls are back in the news. AP To Replace Exit Polls With Voter Survey:
AP has been concerned about the accuracy of in-person exit polls for the past several years, said Sally Buzbee, the news agency’s executive editor. On election night in 2016, when she was then serving as AP’s Washington bureau chief, she directed that only actual results be used to declare winners after exit poll results varied widely from actual vote returns. The exit poll that year was far more favorable to Hillary Clinton in many states than to eventual winner Donald Trump. “If you don’t trust it enough to use it, it doesn’t have much value,” Buzbee said.

The new AP VoteCast service, developed with NORC at the University of Chicago, uses a combination of online and telephone surveys conducted four days before Election Day and through the close of polls. In all, AP expects to conduct more than 85,000 interviews with voters for this year’s midterm election survey, said David Scott, the AP’s deputy managing editor for operations. That’s far more than the roughly 19,400 conducted by the exit poll in 2014, Scott said, allowing for a deeper and more accurate understanding of the electorate.

I'm somewhat skeptical that the results will be any more accurate. It's increasingly more difficult to even get people to pickup the phone, much less provide information on their political beliefs. To many, these calls will be indistinguishable from those of the political campaigns that try to discern favorable voters and then inundate them with pleas for support and reminders to actually vote. I suppose there is some value to just getting a rough estimate of where the electorate stands, but the accuracy is likely to be oversold.
   295. BDC Posted: May 15, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5672689)
In other news, I voted again this morning. Can't say my voice isn't being heard in Washington, or Austin, or Arlington, or at least somewhere. The inside of some black-box voting machine, maybe, but somewhere.

Today's runoff featured the local tax assessor-collector, Ron Wright, against a newcomer named Jake Ellzey, for the GOP nomination to succeed "Sexty" Joe Barton as US Representative. Wright, the heavy favorite, led Ellzey 45-22% in the original primary, but lately has been spending tons of money and going on the attack. The clincher for me was an attack mailing that accused Ellzey of favoring citizenship for illegal immigrants. This of course backfired (even though I don't think that's Ellzey's actual position) and led me to vote (again) for Ellzey.

Tax assessor-collector is the great springboard position in Texas politics. Maybe it works this way elsewhere, too. When we write checks to renew our auto registration, or pay property taxes, we write them personally to Ron Wright, Tax Assessor-Collector. Hence everybody in the county knows his name. You would think this would be the kiss of death, the one guy identified with everything Republicans hate, but name recognition beats every other consideration in local elections. Wright is likely to become Congressman, and the previous tax assessor-collector, Betsy Price, is now Mayor of Fort Worth.
   296. Omineca Greg Posted: May 15, 2018 at 01:22 PM (#5672693)
Now you show up. You were suspiciously absent during the floating foot discussion. Been out to the coast lately, OGreg?

First off, 19 feet...19 findings of "no foul play" by the coroners. So, I think we have to go with their considered professional verdict of "Cowinkydink"...that's supposed to be read "co-winky-dink" not "cow-inky-dink" like a lot of you were thinking.

Cows don't have dinks. That should have been your first clue. And even if they did, they wouldn't be inky. You're thinking of squids. Although I don't think they have dinks either, but they do change colours to attract a lover, "The more you coruscate, the less you masturbate"...and it's true.

Secondly, I am very happy that these are known as the "Salish Sea Feet". The imperialism of the old names is offensive, so it's good that now when people hear about disfigured remains of human bodies, they'll think of the First Nations. Baby steps.

I take size 13 shoes, so I've given up looking for my new footwear on the beach. Only store bought shoes for this guy! The summer when I was 16, I went barefoot, just to see if it could be done. I didn't hurt my feet ever, but a few of the more persnickety businesses did the whole "Whoa, pal, you're not coming in here with no shoes" thing, so I carried a pair of freezer bags and rubber bands in my pockets as a concession to the man. Anyway, my point is, when I see a shoe on the beach, I don't investigate. I'm surprised so many people do, there being a stigma against wearing found clothing, and the very good possibility, even if the shoe were the right size, that there's a decomposing foot inside. That would be a bad day...having to go look for the other matching shoe, as asymmetry in footwear has always been frowned upon by fashionistas. "Oh, look at me, my socks don't match, I'm edgy!". Weaker than weak.

Next week I'll be vacationing by the Salish Sea! On the American side. Checking a map, I see I'll be within the "Footie Zone", so who knows, maybe if things go wrong and I get swept out into the ocean by a rogue wave, one of my feet can make the list.

And yes, of course I'll by using my Camus bag. It goes everywhere I go...

Turbulent childhood, adolescent daydreams in the drone of the bus's motor, mornings, unspoiled girls, beaches, young muscles always at the peak of their effort, evening's slight anxiety in a sixteen-year-old-heart, lust for life, fame, and ever the same sky through the years, unfailing in strength and light, itself insatiable, consuming one by one over a period of months the victims stretched out in the form of crosses on the beach at the deathlike hour of noon.


Ca-MOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

That guy needs to take the freezer bags off his feet and lighten up!

There's two ways you can remember life, "crosses on the beach at the deathlike hour of noon" or "I can't believe I had to put freezer bags on my feet just to get a Slush Puppie!"

I've made my choice.

Have you made yours?
   297. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 15, 2018 at 01:27 PM (#5672696)
Either they seriously come to the table

to talk to who?

Bibi?

So he can do his best Michael Corleone imitation: "This is my offer to you: Nothing"

Bibi does not want a two state solution. Bibi has no intention of giving up the West Bank, because too many of his supporters want the whole thing.

There is nothing to talk about. There is only killing or dying.

Whenever one side might be willing to talk, the maximalists on its side, or the other, torpedo any chance.

The Palestinian maximalists want what they cannot have: Full right of return. And they will die on that hill.

The Israeli maximalist want Judea and Samaria, all of it. And they will die on that hill.

And the wheel goes round and round and round.


QFT. And by now it's a perpetual motion machine.
   298. perros Posted: May 15, 2018 at 01:49 PM (#5672715)
Hamas, those crazy politicians cynically sacrificing their constituents' lives like that. Constituents who didn't need much convincing at all.

Welcome to statehood.
   299. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: May 15, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5672716)
Everybody will be happy to know that disgraced congressman and part-time Disney villain Blake Farenthold has found gainful employment.... which he can use to NOT fund paying back his harassment claims or the special election his downfall brought about.

Nice work if you can get it.... Be a fat-ass, gap-toothed, joke of a disgrace of human being -- then land a 6 figure job lobbying the body you left in disgrace.
   300. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: May 15, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5672726)
Flippety McFlipster
Page 3 of 14 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
greenback slays lewks
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogDetroit Tigers food services employee in custody after video showed him spitting on pizza
(33 - 4:16am, Sep 26)
Last: manchestermets

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(840 - 3:17am, Sep 26)
Last: Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB)

NewsblogNo more Jello Pudding Pops for OMNICHATTER, for Sept. 25, 2018
(78 - 2:09am, Sep 26)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogOTP 2018 September 24: Baseball and the presidency
(949 - 1:42am, Sep 26)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

Gonfalon CubsThe Final Push
(196 - 1:38am, Sep 26)
Last: Walks Clog Up the Bases

NewsblogOT - 2018 NBA Thread (Pre-Season Edition)
(598 - 1:14am, Sep 26)
Last: maccoach57

NewsblogTaking Back the Ballparks - Dodgers voting thread
(15 - 12:10am, Sep 26)
Last: QLE

NewsblogMarlins Finish With Lowest Home Draw Since 2004 Expos
(14 - 11:40pm, Sep 25)
Last: Steve Parris, Je t'aime

NewsblogCarlos Santana at third base in 2019? He’d be open to it | NBC Sports Philadelphia
(15 - 10:43pm, Sep 25)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogFive Tool Players | Articles | Bill James Online
(45 - 10:34pm, Sep 25)
Last: Jose Bautista Bobblehead Day

NewsblogMariners’ Felix Hernandez ‘so proud to be an American’ after becoming a U.S. citizen
(20 - 9:50pm, Sep 25)
Last: phredbird

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (September 2018)
(427 - 9:20pm, Sep 25)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogFowler, still owed almost $50 million, eager to be part of Cardinals' future | St. Louis Cardinals | stltoday.com
(17 - 9:00pm, Sep 25)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogBobby Evans’ days as the Giants’ GM appear to be numbered
(9 - 8:22pm, Sep 25)
Last: SoSH U at work

Newsblog10 Degrees: It's the real 'Golden Era' as baseball today has the greatest group of young, prime players in the sport's history
(12 - 8:00pm, Sep 25)
Last: phredbird

Page rendered in 0.8012 seconds
46 querie(s) executed