Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, May 21, 2018

OTP 2018 May 21: President takes British royalty to a baseball game, May 15, 1991

The 65-year-old queen, dressed in a below-the-knee blue and red dress, black gloves and three strands of pearls, entered the Orioles dugout along the third base line. She formed a receiving line with her husband and the president, clad in a navy blazer, and Barbara Bush. The first lady wore a blue and white floral print dress.

While the VIP guests took their positions designated by their names on 3-by-5 cards, the song “Brown-Eyed Girl” played over the stadium’s public-address system. Their images appeared on the video screen in right-center field.

“I’ve been playing baseball for 10 years, and I’m used to a normal atmosphere,” said Cal Ripken Jr., the Orioles shortstop, after exchanging handshakes. “This is a lot different. There’s a lot of excitement.”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 21, 2018 at 07:42 AM | 1375 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: baltimore orioles, oakland athletics, off topic, politics, polyamorous wood

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 11 of 14 pages ‹ First  < 9 10 11 12 13 >  Last ›
   1001. tshipman Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:06 AM (#5679423)
"Alarmingly open to committing felonies?" What felonies were Page and Papadopoulos so clearly anxious to commit, thereby allowing an intel community led by one party to infiltrate the campaign of another?


1. The FBI wasn't led by the D party in the 2016 election. This is ####### obvious to everyone, but let me repeat it just for consistency.
2. Let me google that for you.
   1002. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:51 AM (#5679426)
This is pretty standard felony murder. It's completely just

You are confusing what is legal, with what is just.
   1003. BDC Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:03 AM (#5679429)
That has nothing to do with the issue

That’s the whole issue. If an innocent or a cop had been killed, it’s dog-bites-man.
   1004. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:11 AM (#5679430)
The video itself is surreal. Brown and the cops spent 5-6 minutes hanging out while half the Milwaukee police force showed up. Aside from the cops fishing for obvious drugs in the car, the whole thing was kinda casual for a while there. At least it's as casual as a 2AM encounter between a young black man and half a city's police force can be. And then one cop goes into Dick Butkus mode, and there's a mosh pit on top of Brown.

I've come around to the idea that most cops shouldn't carry guns. I mean, in the current environment, where everybody else has guns, then whatever. But if I'm named Fuehrer tomorrow, then the generic cop loses his guns like everybody else. They're just not responsible enough, and there's little hope that accountability will be instilled from the grass roots.


As this occurred at 2AM, it appears that we might have a humbling experience that causes one to rethink their views on law enforcement with all due sincerity and principle.

But let's do this by the book, people... Terms like heavy-handed and jack-booted thuggery lose meaning if we're too cavalier with them.

To the checklist...

Was Sterling Brown ever employed by the Donald J Trump campaign or administration?
   1005. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:18 AM (#5679433)
1. The FBI wasn't led by the D party in the 2016 election. This is ####### obvious to everyone, but let me repeat it just for consistency.


Yes. Unless the Trumpkins want to concede that the FBI is now being led by the R party. Weirdly they don't want to go there, nope it only ever works one way for the GOP.

Note: Of course even if they were to concede it, they would be wrong. Wrong, but at least consistent with their own line of BS. Now they are wrong and hypocrites.
   1006. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:20 AM (#5679434)
Speaking of death and who's charged with what:

Toddler hit by alleged street racer who killed her mother dies, police say
The 21-month-old child who was injured when a street racer struck and killed her mother in Tampa, Fla., has died, police said Thursday night.

Jessica Reisinger, 24, was pushing her toddler's stroller through a crosswalk Tuesday when they were hit by a black Ford Mustang driven by 18-year-old Cameron Herrin. The man was allegedly racing with a gold Nissan sedan on the city’s Bayshore Boulevard.
Herrin and his 20-year-old brother Tristan, who was riding in the Mustang, were arrested along with the driver of the Nissan, 17-year-old John Barrineau.

The two drivers were charged with street racing, vehicular homicide, and reckless driving resulting in serious bodily injury, while Tristan Herrin was also charged with street racing under a Florida law that considers willing passengers participants in the activity.

Police said Thursday the charges filed against the drivers "will be enhanced - now it’s vehicular homicide times 2."
I am slightly surprised that the passenger here is not being hit with the Vehicular Homicide charges. Seems to make way more sense than charging a guy with the murder of someone who was shot by a cop.

As far as that other case, he should be charged and go to prison, but count me among those who feel the murder charge here makes no sense. If a cop was killed, if a bystander, absolutely. But this, almost worse than lacking justice, lacks logic.
   1007. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:35 AM (#5679435)
Turley: Trump Was Correct When He Said Campaign Was Under Surveillance


Is that really what Trump said? I thought he said something like "Obama wire tapped me", and Turley is giving the most favorable possible spin on what Trump said. However, I will admit I don't remember the exact verbiage.
   1008. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:41 AM (#5679437)
According to Wikipedia -

Donald J. Trump✓ via Twitter
@realDonaldTrump

Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!

4 Mar 2017


Link


It must be nice to be Trump and say whatever you want in any sort of mangled syntax in tweets and have a legion of people following behind and giving endless positive spin on it, depending on the needs of the moment. Like magic "Obama had my wires tapped" turns into "My campaign was under surveillance". And of course "under surveillance" turns into whatever is needed, if the DNC hired a videographer to film parts of Trump's campaign I am sure that would count as "under surveillance" and completely justify Trump's original "Wires tapped by Obama" claim.

   1009. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:44 AM (#5679440)
So would you vote for Kasich over Trump, if you lived in a swing state?

Probably not.

Motherfucker of Mercy, you really are deep in the swamp.

1. Trump hasn't been as awful as I had feared.


Stockholm Syndrome: "A condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity."

Hey, I get it. They feed you three meals a day, the temperature stays at 72°, and you get free mlb.tv on your phone. It can happen to the best of people.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sean Davis:
Andrew McCabe Spent $70,000 On A Table. The FBI Hid It From Congress.

Tom Bevan:
Geez, you can get two HUD dining room sets for that price.

I see you've gone from not naming the source of those links you used to provide, to now not even bothering to provide links at all. Presumably this is a tip of the hat to Gonfalon.

FTR Sean Davis is the co-founder of The Federalist, previously with The Daily Caller, and Tom Bevan is the co-founder of the conservative-leaning RCP. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
   1010. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:46 AM (#5679441)
Stockholm Syndrome: "A condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity."


Cockholster Syndrome: "A condition that causes uncritical submission and obsequiousness to even the most personally repugnant authority figure if they seem to be hurting people you dislike."
   1011. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:47 AM (#5679442)
It must be nice to be Trump and say whatever you want in any sort of mangled syntax in tweets and have a legion of people following behind and giving endless positive spin on it, depending on the needs of the moment. Like magic "Obama had my wires tapped" turns into "My campaign was under surveillance". And of course "under surveillance" turns into whatever is needed, if the DNC hired a videographer to film parts of Trump's campaign I am sure that would count as "under surveillance" and completely justify Trump's original "Wires tapped by Obama" claim.


You're saying a political movement built on a base of Creationists uncritically accepts even the most ham-fistedly reconned dishonesty? Well I never.
   1012. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:51 AM (#5679443)

Weinstein surrenders to NYC police, indicates Hillary and Obama spoke to him about FISA warrants.
   1013. I Am Merely a Fake Lawyer Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:57 AM (#5679445)
NFLers who don't want to stand for the anthem "maybe shouldn't be in the country."(*)

Disgraceful and an abject embarrassment.

(*) Though this has nothing to do with the Clown of Orange, the NBA has had a "you must stand for the anthem" rule since at least 1996 (**), when David Stern immediately suspended a Muslim Nugget, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, for not standing during the anthem in political protest. But the NBA is seen as a "progressive" league, and the NFL an RWNJ league and so the NFL gets whacked and the NBA gets a pass.

(**) As well as what can safely be termed a "no wearing 'hood garments in public" rule since around 2004.

   1014. DavidFoss Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:02 AM (#5679446)
Like magic "Obama had my wires tapped" turns into "My campaign was under surveillance".

These are separate instances. The former was and out-of-the-blue tweet from the first six weeks of his presidency. The second was a response to the leaked word of the use of Halfer as an informant, plus probably conflating in the FISA warrant stuff.

Nobody on the left likes the idea of the FBI & CIA mounting huge multi-year investigations. Civil libertarians like Dershowitz & Turley are right to say that there needs to be strong oversight. Part of why some of Mueller's stature and reputation was appointed as Special Prosecutor was foreseeing some of the partisan issues that would arise later.

But no one thinks that the Deputy AG should be briefing Nunes & Gowdy alone on this. Then when they expand the briefing to include the full Gang of Eight, then Trump sends his Chief of Staff and personal attorney? Even Turley notes that "None of this was criminal or unethical. The concern is that it shows a continued failure to mind critical lines of separation as well as a dumbfounding lack of judgment."
   1015. I Am Merely a Fake Lawyer Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:04 AM (#5679447)
Trump's campaign was under surveillance. The response of the NY Times and Washington Post, as well as almost all "liberals," to that reality is also an abject embarrassment.

There really hasn't been an American "by any means necessary" movement of this breadth and depth in any of our lifetimes. The 2016 surveillance was banana republic stuff and the 2017-18 "pick your warring institution and stick with it no matter what" ethos is the stuff of warming civil war. This is very much what Decline looks like.
   1016. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:15 AM (#5679452)
In case a few people are slow and haven’t figured it out, the institution reinstated FLTB’s internet privileges; he’s now posting as “--” in 1013 and 1015.
   1017. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:17 AM (#5679453)
In case a few people are slow and haven’t figured it out

I was in fact slow - it took me a good thirty seconds to figure it out. #losing

(edit - while reading 1013. No one should need help after 1015.)
   1018. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:22 AM (#5679456)
In case a few people are slow and haven’t figured it out, the institution reinstated FLTB’s internet privileges; he’s now posting as “--” in 1013 and 1015.


I blame the people who did not heed my warnings in musing on his absence.

Why, if Ray ever gets off the night shift - the whole band will back together!
   1019. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5679462)
@20committee:
So, to sum up: DPRK, rightfully a global pariah:

- Got DC to treat it as an equal & peer
- "POTUS" gloats about a non-existent "summit"
- NK pulls the football, Lucy-style, for max pain
- "POTUS" tries the "But *I* cancelled our date!" BS.

Pyongyang's best day ever.

#WINNING

But, as Juan noted, credit where it's due - at least the President, the intellectual and moral leader of the Republican Party, didn't pay a cash ransom to (what was?) a global pariah.
   1020. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5679464)
These are separate instances. The former was and out-of-the-blue tweet from the first six weeks of his presidency. The second was a response to the leaked word of the use of Halfer as an informant, plus probably conflating in the FISA warrant stuff.


I have this odd notion that we shouldn't forget random "out of the blue" nonsense, especially when evaluating current statements. Though I must admit "Trump lies and his followers cover for him" is vastly over-determined at this point.

Nobody on the left likes the idea of the FBI & CIA mounting huge multi-year investigations. Civil libertarians like Dershowitz & Turley are right to say that there needs to be strong oversight. Part of why some of Mueller's stature and reputation was appointed as Special Prosecutor was foreseeing some of the partisan issues that would arise later.


Really? After the Trump tweet I referenced earlier I called for an independent investigation. When one President declares the previous President of a different party to have clearly and obviously done something so wrong, I think it should be investigated. And the only people who can investigate the government are ... well ... the government. And these serious investigations do take multiple years.

What the left objects to - or at least what I object to - are the obviously partisan investigations that follow on previous investigations of the same thing, over and over. The investigations run unprofessionally with more holes (and thus leaks) than a colander. What I object to are the secret multi-year black ops type "investigations". However, no one I know of, objects to the investigations into government wrongdoing. So in that Turley and I agree.

But no one thinks that the Deputy AG should be briefing Nunes & Gowdy alone on this. Then when they expand the briefing to include the full Gang of Eight, then Trump sends his Chief of Staff and personal attorney? Even Turley notes that "None of this was criminal or unethical. The concern is that it shows a continued failure to mind critical lines of separation as well as a dumbfounding lack of judgment."


But not surprising. Not in the slightest. Which is why I am always amused when Jason pulls out his "The FBI reports to Congress and not the other way around" silliness. I mean the words are not wrong, but no one thinks it is a good idea to brief such clowns on the nitty gritty details of an on going investigation, which they are clearly and obviously going to immediately use for partisan purposes. Congressional oversight should mean a partisan majority is allowed to sabotage ongoing investigations into wrongdoing by members of that majority.
   1021. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:34 AM (#5679466)
I blame the people who did not heed my warnings in musing on his absence.


It was really pleasant here for a while wasn't it? Hopefully most will fail to rise to the bait and it will remain so.

EDIT: I actually was going to respond to #1013, because it was so dumb and I too didn't realize from that spot of idiocy who wrote it, but both 14 and 15 made it clear I could retroactively ignore 13. Time saved!
   1022. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5679473)
Write your own punchline:

Rachel Dolezal accused of welfare fraud.
   1023. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5679474)
In case a few people are slow and haven’t figured it out

I was in fact slow - it took me a good thirty seconds to figure it out. #losing

I was wondering who else it was I'd had on Ignore, but out of sight, out of mind.
   1024. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5679480)
Congressional oversight should mean a partisan majority is allowed to sabotage ongoing investigations into wrongdoing by members of that majority.


Too late to edit, but obviously this should read "should NOT mean". My bad.
   1025. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5679482)
SBB:

Guys, we live in a world that has message boards, and those message boards have to be guarded by men with keyboards. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Mellow Mouse? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Hillary and you curse the GOP. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know; that Clinton's loss, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves lives*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that message board. You need me on that message board. I use words like concession accepted, " modern liberals", Decline. I use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a keyboard and start typing. Either way, I don't give a *damn* what you think you are entitled to!
   1026. DavidFoss Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:58 AM (#5679486)
What the left objects to - or at least what I object to - are the obviously partisan investigations that follow on previous investigations of the same thing, over and over. The investigations run unprofessionally with more holes (and thus leaks) than a colander. What I object to are the secret multi-year black ops type "investigations". However, no one I know of, objects to the investigations into government wrongdoing. So in that Turley and I agree.

I think we're in agreement here. You actually state it better than me. I'm just in the mood to attempt to rationalize Dershowitz & Turley's Trump-era contrarianism this morning.
   1027. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:03 AM (#5679487)
1000% totally perfect.
   1028. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:04 AM (#5679489)
#1025 is really funny in an over the top pretentiously self important fashion.

Thanks for sharing, but I admit I wonder where on Earth it came from? I would think I would remember something that silly, but my memory is bad, so perhaps not (alternately I just skimmed the original source message and it failed to register).

EDIT: Or maybe it was a parody, in which case I agree with #1027. Generally I think he uses smaller paragraphs also, but not always.
   1029. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:05 AM (#5679490)
Noted because some insist it never happens - Armed Citizen Kills Shooter At Restaurant. Relatedy, the FBI recently reported that 16% of active shooter crimes were stopped by law-abiding citizens with a gun.
   1030. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5679491)
Thanks for sharing, but I admit I wonder where on Earth it came from? I would think I would remember something that silly, but my memory is bad, so perhaps not (alternately I just skimmed the original source message and it failed to register).

EDIT: Or maybe it was a parody, in which case I agree with #1027. Generally I think he uses smaller paragraphs also, but not always.


A hint- Colonel Jessup
   1031. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:11 AM (#5679496)
Noted because some insist it never happens - Armed Citizen Kills Shooter At Restaurant.

Well, the thing of this one is that it appears that, like other incidents, he attacked his targets, left, and then was engaged by a civilian with a gun. So while I can't and won't say it never happens I will say that it rarely happens and will continue to rarely happen. People are not precogs.
   1032. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:14 AM (#5679498)
A hint- Colonel Jessup


Heh. I should have recognized it. My bad. I blame the early hour and my terrible memory.
   1033. zenbitz Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5679499)
1. Trump hasn't been as awful as I had feared.


I mean, fair enough. He didn't suspend Habeus corpus or actually start jailing journalists with critique him, or nuke Norway or anything.
   1034. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5679500)
Colonel Jessup
C'mon guys--I recognized this and haven't even seen the movie. And, I was so lazy I only read the first and last sentences of McCoy's post.

Since SBB is back, did anyone else here note that Krugman wrote on the NYT blog about the decline that started around 1980? It was weeks ago so I might have missed it.
   1035. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5679502)
Noted because some insist it never happens - Armed Citizen Kills Shooter At Restaurant.
Well, the thing of this one is that it appears that, like other incidents, he attacked his targets, left, and then was engaged by a civilian with a gun.


Right. Keep in mind, of course, you're talking to Clapper about honesty, so that's going nowhere.

   1036. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:28 AM (#5679503)
I mean, fair enough. He didn't suspend Habeus corpus or actually start jailing journalists


If he were jailing "lamestream media" journos, Jason would have signed up even quicker. Jason is what I told you he would become. He will swallow anything for a bombing run over Tehran.
   1037. Greg K Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5679506)
C'mon guys--I recognized this and haven't even seen the movie. And, I was so lazy I only read the first and last sentences of McCoy's post.

I actually wonder about this (and maybe this should be in the pop culture thread). I was familiar with that little monologue long before I actually saw the movie. That's true of quite a few scenes/lines from the 1990s and earlier. Probably in part due to The Simpsons I know a lot of movie references despite never having seen the movie.

But very rarely from 21st century movies. I recall the "drink your milkshake" line from There Will Be Blood entering everyday speech for a week or two a few years ago. But I don't feel like I know many iconic lines/scenes from the big movies of today that I haven't seen. Is this just me getting old and being out of the loop? Or have pop culture references just migrated over to social media memes (which I guess is just another way of asking the first question).
   1038. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5679509)
I'd never heard of Colonel Jessup, but after a quick googling I've gotta say that was a sublime parody.
   1039. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5679516)

But not surprising. Not in the slightest. Which is why I am always amused when Jason pulls out his "The FBI reports to Congress and not the other way around" silliness. I mean the words are not wrong,
Technically, it kind of is wrong. The FBI reports to the president, not to congress. The executive branch is a co-equal branch, not subordinate to congress. Of course, congress controls the power of the purse so the executive would be wise to cooperate with congressional inquiries, but congress does not have any supervisory power over the FBI or any other executive agency.
   1040. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:50 AM (#5679518)
Snow YR, #1022:
Write your own punchline:
Rachel Dolezal accused of welfare fraud.

I ain't messing with no broke wigger.
   1041. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5679519)
^gold
   1042. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5679520)
I ain't messing with no broke wigger.

There's always Frog.
   1043. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5679523)
The executive branch is a co-equal branch, not subordinate to congress. Of course, congress controls the power of the purse so the executive would be wise to cooperate with congressional inquiries, but congress does not have any supervisory power over the FBI or any other executive agency.

No "supervisory" power, but Congress does have vast oversight authority over the executive branch. There are only fairly narrow grounds for withholding information from Congress.
   1044. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5679525)
I see you've gone from not naming the source of those links you used to provide, to now not even bothering to provide links at all. Presumably this is a tip of the hat to Gonfalon.
This criticism makes no sense (in this context). He did name the sources -- Sean Davis, and Tom Bevan -- and they weren't links. They were tweets. One provides a link so people can read the whole story being referenced, and find out who said the things. But that's not relevant here; he posted the entire things.

(AFAIK; Sean Davis blocked me on twitter for calling him out for making up law, so I can't see his posts.)
   1045. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:07 AM (#5679527)
There are only fairly narrow grounds for withholding information from Congress.


Cite? And, can you give some examples? I would also appreciate some distinction between "withholding information" and failing to supply details on any number of ongoing investigations. Failing to send over every scrap of information generated by the FBI (massive amounts every second one presumes) could be seen as "withholding information".
   1046. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:10 AM (#5679528)
NFLers who don't want to stand for the anthem "maybe shouldn't be in the country."(*)


This is quite ironic considering Trump is doing the exact same thing that he is condemning the NFL players for.

NFL players - protesting LEO activities by using the respect for the anthem and flag to draw attention to their cause
Trump - protesting LEO activities by using the respect for the Office of the President to draw attention to his cause

If I had to guess if there have been more NFL protests (total of a player protesting a single game) versus Trump tweets or statements denigrating the Mueller investigation/FBI/DOJ/LEO personnel, I'd say that Trump wins.

So does this mean that Trump will voluntary deport?
   1047. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5679529)
No "supervisory" power, but Congress does have vast oversight authority over the executive branch. There are only fairly narrow grounds for withholding information from Congress.
While this is commonly accepted, it's almost entirely extraconstitutional. Nothing in there grants any such authority to Congress. I remember looking into this during the steroids hearings, and there's a good CRS report basically admitting that the whole idea that Congress has the power to compel people to provide information to it is just kind of made up.
   1048. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:14 AM (#5679531)

All of the above notwithstanding, it does appear that the $70K figure for a table was redacted from documents given to Congress, and it's hard to see what national security implications there are to that information.
   1049. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5679534)
Add this to the pile of "least surprising things ever during a GOP administration" - CBO’s Deficit Forecast Dwarfs White House Estimate

“The Congressional Budget Office estimates the government will take in $1.9 trillion less in revenue and spend $300 billion more over the next decade than the White House estimated under its latest budget proposal if the plan were enacted,” the Wall Street Journal reports.

“Deficits would total $9.5 trillion over the coming decade, or $2.3 trillion more than the White House estimates.”


WARNING! The link to to one of Clapper's "favorite" websites, a dastardly "liberal aggregator" and so they almost certainly manipulated the numbers in order to make conservatives look bad. Since the GOP regularly manipulates numbers in exactly that way I felt free to use those evil liberal numbers and not the exact same numbers the Wall Street Journal supplied. Feel free to go to the WSJ if you must.
   1050. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:18 AM (#5679535)
Album Reviews

Sprygrate -- Trumpkin Buffer Override

It's album review cliche to call a reunion "anticipated" - and probably worse when the original iteration was more constipated than fellated, but the label saw fit to instigate, so it's the duty of the reviewer to investigate... even if the foregone conclusion is that a listen will only aggravate.

Orange Swamp Records favorite band is back with another assault on the ears (and the mind, and I assume, somewhere on MTV57, the eyes). After a brief hiatus to pursue 'side projects' - projects, one can quickly deduce, that did not contain any horizon expansions or skills acquisitions - TBO managed to cobble together assortment of pre-packaged beats, predictable choruses, and cursed verses.

Father Time continues his metronomic cromulence on the drums, pounding out the same lifeless rhythm he's been pounding out since, one can assume, a primitive 70s drum machine learned to ape sentience. His main contribution to this LP - "Felony Murder" - doesn't even try to hide its Nattering Nabobs of... let it go already, ancestry. Clap... clap... clap... indeed. If the PMRC really cared about the nation's youth, there would be a space-faring crustacean warning label on the album cover warning "IT'S CLAPTRAP!"

His accomplice in rhythmic crime, bassist Ray, provides his usual Turley-Turley-Turley-DERSH assistance. As much as it's true that some bands have a sound that just isn't made for a Les Claypool sort, even color-by-the-numbers rock benefits from a little variety. The utter predictability almost makes one yearn for his brief flirtation with hypnotist mysticism - it was odd and not entirely musical - but at least Turley-Turley-Turley-DERSH monotony got broken up with a little off kilter Turley-Turley-DILBERT-dersh. The fact that the band's beat keepers never sounded so in step on "It's Just JUST!" is about as comforting as the consistency of marching jackboots.

Meanwhile, the king of frets also gets in his... licks. He frets about Paul Manafort's beauty sleep. He frets about Carter Page's ability to pursue unfettered coffee-fetching employment with Russian oligarchs. He frets about select FBI agents. He frets and frets and frets and frets... but never seems to get anywhere. The world never really needed "Footnote", the band's first hit single. It certainly doesn't need "Footnote Part IV". His influence over the band certainly grew with the absence of lead yowler, --, but it's almost impossible to tell if the alternative to tracks like "Roger's Stones", "Hey, Look a Video of a Conference!", and "But He Pardoned a Black Man Dead for 70 Years" would be worse or better.

Speaking of Syntax - this job needs to pay more if I'm expected to keep up rather than fall back on all-purpose appellation - he's apparently back from his retreat at Ted Nugent's poop-smearing lodge, but it would seem the endeavor has left him none the more inventive. "Whatabout the NBA" falls flat and I expect the long-forgotten Rockwell to be bringing a civil suit of "Surveillance" by the time this review posts.

The band's Nicky Hopkins (or George Martin, if you prefer your metaphors in Beatles form), TGF, drops in solely for the track "Pity the ####### Lawyer", but it's clear that the rift between TGF and the other band members isn't one to be fixed. Clearly cucked out of his intentions to lead the band in a new direction, his disinterest in following them down the well-worn, safe tracks of tax cuts and neoconism is quite evident.

The album's anthems - "Read Grassley's Letter" and "JPOD Sez" - are fit as first pumpers only for shut-ins who'd need to shower, get out of mom's basement, and invest in clearicil to even reach Bro status. While the ballad, "Every DeVos has Forlorn", probably works as a panty-dropper only for the world's Roy Moores. Attempts at deeper relevance - "Slobatage" and "Hear.. Bye Principles" - do little more than give every 15 yo who just learned Stairway on the guitar hope that stardom awaits.

All in all, the question is where this opus ranks with the band's previous efforts - "Comey and Get It!", "Jimmy Carter's Peanut Farm", and the dreaded "Footnote". That, however, is one for the philosophers, not a mere album reviewer.

No Stars
   1051. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:22 AM (#5679539)
I don't follow the Russia Russia stuff very closely, but I will reiterate that the only legit criticism I know of about Turley - a liberal - in the last 20 years is that he is a shameless self-promoter.

that said, I respect his legal reasoning in general. if he has now "turned" and just become a contrarian - well, it took him a long time to do so. we'll see
I'm not seeing the strong distinction between "contrarian" and "shameless self-promoter" that you're implicitly positing, Howie. Contrariness is a tool for self-promotion; being the 500th law professor to call Trump an incompetent buffoon/crook doesn't garner attention, while being one of a couple of guys (especially nominally liberal guys) defending him does.
   1052. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5679544)
While this is commonly accepted, it's almost entirely extraconstitutional. Nothing in there grants any such authority to Congress. I remember looking into this during the steroids hearings, and there's a good CRS report basically admitting that the whole idea that Congress has the power to compel people to provide information to it is just kind of made up.

Well, if Congressional oversight authority for the executive branch is a "made up" power, it's one that has long enjoyed the support of both parties. It isn't going anywhere.
   1053. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:30 AM (#5679546)
I'm not seeing the strong distinction between "contrarian" and "shameless self-promoter" that you're implicitly positing, Howie. Contrariness is a tool for self-promotion; being the 500th law professor to call Trump an incompetent buffoon/crook doesn't garner attention, while being one of a couple of guys (especially nominally liberal guys) defending him does.


Meh, Turley's hardly new to this... I very much remember him making a bit of splash when he adopted a rather NRA-esque stance on the 2nd Amendment that had to be what... at least 20 years ago?

Indeed, other than the fact that he likes to insist he IS a liberal - and cable news channels respect his self-labeling, I'm not entirely sure what it is that makes him a liberal.... other than being a lawyer in academia, I guess.
   1054. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:31 AM (#5679548)
while being one of a couple of guys (especially nominally liberal guys) defending him does


It is a good short term career move, and maybe long term if they find a home in the conservative media sphere - especially if the Democrats take control of Washington. The opposition media always does better than the establishment media, and opposition media is always looking for the friendly "voice from the other side" for obvious reasons.
   1055. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:32 AM (#5679549)
Well, if Congressional oversight authority for the executive branch is a "made up" power, it's one that has long enjoyed the support of both parties. It isn't going anywhere.


So no examples of those narrow guidelines you were mentioning?
   1056. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:34 AM (#5679550)
Well, if Congressional oversight authority for the executive branch is a "made up" power, it's one that has long enjoyed the support of both parties. It isn't going anywhere.

Yeah, good luck to anyone running for office on a platform of trying to reverse that! #debatewon
   1057. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5679558)
@politico:
In his new memoir, John McCain concedes that the war in Iraq he fought so hard to launch and then escalate now “can’t be judged as anything other than a mistake, a very serious one, and I have to accept my share of the blame for it.”

Acknowledging mistakes? Not saying the war would have been an incredible success had we only 'surged' and sent more of the nation's children to die? You know what that spells...RINO!!
   1058. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5679562)
@philipbump:
Pew asked Americans if the U.S. had a responsibility to accept refugees.

No group -- racial, by age, religious or political -- was less supportive of that idea than white evangelical Protestants.
   1059. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5679566)
RNC Spox Says Cohen Is Still Deputy Finance Chair Despite Criminal Probe

I actually didn't realize he was RNC Deputy Finance Chair to begin with... but I suppose it helps make Slush Fund LLC the money-making powerhouse it is.
   1060. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5679574)
Pew asked Americans if the U.S. had a responsibility to accept refugees.
No group -- racial, by age, religious or political -- was less supportive of that idea than white evangelical Protestants.

That's the group that's trying its best to make "Christians" into an entire thesaurus of nannyized words.
   1061. McCoy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5679576)
Laughing at this

305. McCoy Posted: November 01, 2012 at 05:32 PM (#4290369)
Not that it means you punt the 2012 election but an Obama victory in 2012 probably hands the White House to the Republicans in 2016.

No way is Biden going to be the nominee in 2016 and either Hillary will be attached to this administration or she will have left and done nothing for 4 years. I know they are building up Cuomo but I don't see that happening either.

The only silver lining is that the Republicans don't really have anyone lined up for 2016 either.


Turns out it was not a silver lining after all.
   1062. Traderdave Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:00 PM (#5679579)
No group -- racial, by age, religious or political -- was less supportive of that idea than white evangelical Protestants.


They are the least Christian group in our society. By contrast, you know who practices quote-unquote Christian values* most closely? In my experience atheists and nominally religious Jews do it most consistently.

Interesting times we live in.....





*Forgiveness, charity, compassion, love of fellow humans
   1063. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:06 PM (#5679581)
We all know Senator Grassley writes letters... but did you know he gets them, too?
Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE), in a Thursday letter to Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-IA), pointed to a recent report that Trump Jr. met at Trump Tower in August 2016 with an Israeli social media specialist and an emissary for princes in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. The Israeli, Joel Zamel, touted his firm’s ability to manipulate social media to boost Trump’s campaign, while the emissary, George Nader, told Trump Jr. that the princes he represented would also like to help his father’s election, the New York Times reported. Trump Jr.’s attorney Alan Futerfas confirmed the meeting happened but claimed that his client was not interested in the attendees’ pitches.
   1064. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:07 PM (#5679582)
#1061:
2012: The only silver lining is that the Republicans don't really have anyone lined up for 2016 either.
2018: Turns out it was not a silver lining after all.
For a lot of Republican patriots, deficit hawks, fundamentalist Christians, and originalists, it's a silver lining that regularly gets broken into 30 pieces.
   1065. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:09 PM (#5679584)
By contrast, you know who practices quote-unquote Christian values* most closely? In my experience atheists and nominally religious Jews do it most consistently.


That's because they can't count on Jesus to forgive all their transgressions and wipe their consciences clean.
   1066. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:11 PM (#5679586)
I see you've gone from not naming the source of those links you used to provide, to now not even bothering to provide links at all. Presumably this is a tip of the hat to Gonfalon.

This criticism makes no sense (in this context). He did name the sources -- Sean Davis, and Tom Bevan -- and they weren't links. They were tweets. One provides a link so people can read the whole story being referenced, and find out who said the things. But that's not relevant here; he posted the entire things.


First, Sean Davis and Tom Bevan are hardly household names. I had to google them myself. It's hard enough keeping up with the MSM and a few Big Names from the fringes (Rush, Hannity, Alex Jones) without having to memorize the names of every Federalist or HuffPost contributor, especially in the midst of a white hot AL East race. If I have to choose between knowing who Tom Bevan is or knowing about the latest injury update for Tommy Kahnle, I know which way I'm going.

Second, without providing links---which JE had always done before with tweets**---you can't see the replies, or even whether the tweet was being quoted in its entirety. You also can't know anything about who these guys are, unless you google them or you know it already.

(AFAIK; Sean Davis blocked me on twitter for calling him out for making up law, so I can't see his posts.)

That would seem to confirm my thoughts about the reliability of Sean Davis, though maybe he was just having a bad day.

** Even if sometimes they came back as error messages
   1067. greenback took the 110 until the 105 Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:21 PM (#5679591)
A couple of folks had to leave work early today to go check on their kids at the latest school shooting. This is America.

   1068. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5679595)
Well, if Congressional oversight authority for the executive branch is a "made up" power, it's one that has long enjoyed the support of both parties. It isn't going anywhere.

So no examples of those narrow guidelines you were mentioning?

If you want to attempt to dispute it, have at it. It's a little late in the game to contest the existence of Congressional oversight powers, IMHO, but you can give it a try if you like.
   1069. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5679612)
If you want to attempt to dispute it, have at it. It's a little late in the game to contest the existence of Congressional oversight powers, IMHO, but you can give it a try if you like.


What's so obvious and not-at-all amusing is how Clapper completely ignores the most theory and principle behind this oversight.

This GOP congress isn't exercising any "oversight" for purposes preserving the hallowed coequal branches, curbing creeping authoritarianism from an executive or anything like that.

The GOP owned the House for six of the eight Obama years. For the last two, they had both chambers. They exercised that 'oversight' almost solely for purposes of dogging the presumptive next Democratic nominee for President.

Now, they aren't even exercising thinly veiled oversight - they're acting like a crude Sturmabteilung to not-so-subtly insist even more loyalty, selective political points scoring, and coverup than the executive branch itself can instill via its own not-at-all subtle methods.

Gimme a break...

Michael Cohen is running a pretty obvious slush fund and is there even a hint of committee hearing from any of the congressional committees charged with the various domestic and foreign policy oversight?

Roger Stone is asking wikileaks for e-mails for specific dates and these weren't provided to the House committee because "they weren't in scope"... I'm sure they weren't.

This isn't oversight. It's laughable to pretend it is.

It's nothing more than pliant legislative lickspittles giving a tinpot would-be dictator ridiculously transparent cover.

It's a disease of rot and ridiculousness.
   1070. Howie Menckel Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5679613)
urley's hardly new to this... I very much remember him making a bit of splash when he adopted a rather NRA-esque stance on the 2nd Amendment that had to be what... at least 20 years ago?

Indeed, other than the fact that he likes to insist he IS a liberal - and cable news channels respect his self-labeling, I'm not entirely sure what it is that makes him a liberal.... other than being a lawyer in academia, I guess.

well, as David notes, being the 500th guy to make the same point about Trump won't get you noticed. but Turley has often been critical of Trump nonetheless, it just.... doesn't get noticed.

while wiki is just wiki, the cites are NY Times, Washington Post, etc on Turley's:
- support for criminal prosecution of Bush administration officials for war crimes, including torture
- opposition to "special treatment for the church in law, asking why there are laws that "expressly exempt faith-based actions that result in harm."
- backing of lawsuits to force schools to take bullying more seriously (this is 10 years ago)
- opposition to the death penalty
- opposition to Michael Mukasey for U.S. attorney general because his "evasive remarks on 'water-boarding' should disqualify him from the job."

I could go on, and yes there are a number of issues where he doesn't toe the party line on the left. I hardly thinks that makes him not credible.
   1071. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:47 PM (#5679617)
@ashleyrparker:
Rudy Giuliani says Trump is still more likely to sit across from Kim Jong Un than Robert Mueller — because at least the dictator won’t entrap him with “Korean perjury.” https://wapo.st/2s7RUdL
   1072. DavidFoss Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5679619)
If you want to attempt to dispute it, have at it. It's a little late in the game to contest the existence of Congressional oversight powers, IMHO, but you can give it a try if you like.

Well, no one is going to contest the existence of Congressional oversight. As someone else said: #debatewon

I see two issues discussed above. First, the oversight seems a bit toothless. They can call a hearing and have people testify on TV but often nothing comes of it. They rely on the political blowback from the hearings to affect funding votes. Second, congressional oversight shouldn't mean that Devin Nunes can get status updates on investigations so that he can report that status back to those investigations' subjects and their attorneys.
   1073. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:50 PM (#5679621)
Frequently, liberal acquaintances of mine point out how awful and authoritarian so many Republicans are and ask why libertarians won't side with Democrats. The problem is that even in the areas where Democrats aren't worse than Republicans, they're pretty much worthless:
“I love the National Anthem … and I love the First Amendment and I’ll just leave it that.”

Nancy Pelosi declines to take a position on the NFL anthem ruling, but says she wishes the players had been a bigger part of the decision https://cnn.it/2klNEmw #PelosiTownHall


EDIT: Or even Trumpian:
“No I will not shed a tear if that newspaper is no longer here,” Mayor de Blasio says of @nypost. “The Post is not like everyone else” and their presence in our city is “harmful,” he adds.
   1074. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5679630)
“No I will not shed a tear if that newspaper is no longer here,” Mayor de Blasio says of @nypost. “The Post is not like everyone else” and their presence in our city is “harmful,” he adds.

This actually makes it sound like there's some rumor of the Post moving out of NYC.
   1075. PepTech Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5679631)
A couple of folks had to leave work early today to go check on their kids at the latest school shooting. This is America.
If I understand Clapper's 1029 correctly, gun violence would be less of a problem if only more people had guns. Or maybe if more people *use* guns.
   1076. PepTech Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5679632)
well, as David notes, being the 500th guy to make the same point about Trump won't get you noticed. but Turley has often been critical of Trump nonetheless, it just.... doesn't get noticed quoted by RDP.
FTFY :)
   1077. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:16 PM (#5679634)
Sounds like Clapper's relief that Tom Garrett isn't forgoing a reelection campaign might not be so much as a relief after all.

After his rather surreal press conference, some ex-Garrett aides are painting a none-too-pretty picture of the Blake Farenthold stand-in (seriously, for a while, I thought people were using Blake's picture for Garrett... are these two guys related?)

Politico is further reporting that this pooper-scooper and chauffeur duty was the cause of his former's Chief of Staff's decision to quit.

Might be worth watching.
   1078. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:19 PM (#5679637)
A couple of folks had to leave work early today to go check on their kids at the latest school shooting. This is America.

If I understand Clapper's 1029 correctly, gun violence would be less of a problem if only more people had guns. Or maybe if more people *use* guns.


I asked this question here before but never received an answer despite the dense population of lawyers and fake lawyers on BBTF:

If you, law-abiding American, pull out your Constitutionally Protected Firearm and shoot at an evil-doer but miss and hit a bystander, what is your liability?
   1079. Traderdave Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5679642)
If you, law-abiding American, pull out your Constitutionally Protected Firearm and shoot at an evil-doer but miss and hit a bystander, what is your liability?


Answers will vary depending on locality of incident and identity of bystander.
   1080. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:38 PM (#5679643)
If you, law-abiding American, pull out your Constitutionally Protected Firearm and shoot at an evil-doer but miss and hit a bystander, what is your liability?


Based on google, none.

Philadelphia...
Chicago...
Detroit...

How many other stories have we heard about guns going off in church... While shopping... Or even in schools...

In all of these cases - you'll find no charges filed, no penalties, not even a suspension of C&C or whatever.

Contrary to claim that WHATTABOUT GUN OWNERS WHO SHOOT CRIMINALS!! (CNN had the Oklahoma incident as its top story on its website for most of the day) - it's incidents like all of the ones above that far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more common.

The lawyers will certainly chime in about 'privileges' vs 'rights'.

But ultimately? This is just more reason why the 2A probably does need to be repealed - replaced with something more reasonable or whatever, but eliminated in current form nonetheless.

Despite gunistas claims - the unfortunate fact is that the 'responsible, level-headed, careful and appropriate' gunowner is far rarer (far, far, far, far...) than his equally entitled cousin, the 'shoot-first, carry it in your waistband, oops!' gunowner.

Repeal and replace.

If you actually ARE responsible and don't make mistakes, so be it... but current jurisprudence and statute pretty much means you have to be almost ridiculously reckless, if not obviously criminal, to have your rights to a penis extender curtailed.
   1081. PepTech Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:39 PM (#5679644)
If you, law-abiding American, pull out your Constitutionally Protected Firearm and shoot at an evil-doer but miss and hit a bystander, what is your liability?
Or, as a subset of that, what if your Constitutionally Protected Steel-Jacketed Ammo blows through the evil-doer and hits a bystander? Don't forget to include emotional damages.
   1082. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5679645)
If you, law-abiding American, pull out your Constitutionally Protected Firearm and shoot at an evil-doer but miss and hit a bystander, what is your liability?
Do you mean civilly or criminally? Criminally, generally speaking, none, if your actions were otherwise reasonable. Civilly, you've got a tougher row to hoe.
   1083. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:49 PM (#5679649)
EDIT: Or even Trumpian:
“No I will not shed a tear if that newspaper is no longer here,” Mayor de Blasio says of @nypost. “The Post is not like everyone else” and their presence in our city is “harmful,” he adds.

See, that's why I mentioned the virtue of always providing links when you post something, even tweets. Without that helpful link that you provided, how else could we've ever been reminded of that classic Post headline:

HEADLESS BODY IN TOPLESS BAR

And while I can't really think of any way that the NY Post improves civic life in either New York or the country, I'd be sad to see it go, and at least it used to have a reasonably good sports section.
   1084. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5679650)
Criminally, generally speaking, none, if your actions were otherwise reasonable.

Criminally, who determines the bolded portion, the DA first, jury second?

If someone shoots at a shoplifter and hits a ten-year-old in the neck who bleeds out in 20 seconds while crying for his mother on video, I'm thinking the DA might pursue that criminally. I could, obviously, be incorrect.
   1085. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:54 PM (#5679651)
If someone shoots at a shoplifter and hits a ten-year-old in the neck who bleeds out in 20 seconds while crying for his mother on video, I'm thinking the DA might pursue that criminally.


Depends. Was the 10 year old black? Was he near a sidewalk?
   1086. Zonk is a cagey fellow Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5679652)
Do you mean civilly or criminally? Criminally, generally speaking, none, if your actions were otherwise reasonable. Civilly, you've got a tougher row to hoe.


I don't think that's true.

My bet is that your civil suit as an innocent bystander hit by stray fire probably has a better shot succeeding against the municipality than against a legally armed citizen who goes Doc Holiday.

Looked for data - or even anecdotes - and I cannot even find any instances of a successful civil suit brought by an 'innocent bystander' despite the fact there no shortage of instances.

Now, hey - maybe that's because most civilian shooters don't have deep enough pockets to make civil suits worthwhile while cities and federal agencies do.

I'd also quibble with "reasonable"... based on any number of myriads of endless anecdotes - reasonable seems an improper description. Blah blah blah legal standard - but that doesn't change the fact that there are no shortage of incidents where the conduct hardly seems 'reasonable'; it seems 'reckless'... but no criminal penalties were assessed - not even a license suspension.

Again, just googling around some of the fairly ridiculous incidents above - I'm not finding any instances of penalties... maybe these yutzes got a stern talking-to.... but so long as they purchased the gun legally and had a permit, someone's harm; no foul on them.

   1087. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5679653)
Depends. Was the 10 year old black?

Occurred to me while writing.
   1088. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:56 PM (#5679654)
well, as David notes, being the 500th guy to make the same point about Trump won't get you noticed. but Turley has often been critical of Trump nonetheless, it just.... doesn't get noticed quoted by RDP.

FTFY :)


I saw the smiley, but in fairness to Ray he's often quoted Turley's critical comments about Trump. Of course they're easy to overlook because the both of them spend so much more time and energy attacking Trump's investigators.
   1089. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5679659)

Criminally, who determines the bolded portion, the DA first, jury second?
The police, a DA, a grand jury, a judge, a jury.
If someone shoots at a shoplifter and hits a ten-year-old in the neck who bleeds out in 20 seconds while crying for his mother on video, I'm thinking the DA might pursue that criminally. I could, obviously, be incorrect.
The legal standard is the same regardless. If the conduct would have been legal if the shooter had hit his intended target, then it's legal if he accidentally misses.
   1090. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 25, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5679660)
It's possible some of us may have overestimated New Jersey's tolerance for ethically compromised politicians - Poll Gives Senator Robert Menendez (D-NJ) Only A 4% Lead, 28% - 24%, with 46% undecided. That's a lot of undecided voters for a well-known incumbent. Menendez has clearly been hurt by the corruption charges that led to his being "severely admonished" by the Senate Ethics Committee. Maybe underage Dominican hookers don't play well in the #Me Too environment? The likely GOP candidate is a relatively unknown business executive. It's unclear how well he will hold up in the face of what will surely be an all out Democratic effort to hold the seat, but it could be an interesting race if that polling is accurate.
   1091. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 25, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5679662)
Look guys. The Trumpholster is lecturing others about ethics! How adorable.
   1092. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 25, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5679666)
what will surely be an all out Democratic effort

As opposed to what other kind of effort in a Senate race? Any chance The Yankee Clapper's yearbook forensic expert could be of assistance to Mendendez?
   1093. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:20 PM (#5679672)
I'll let Clapper spell out the significance of the latest Senate poll in a state where Trump beat Clinton by 42%. It's unclear how well the lead will hold up in the face of what will surely be an all out Republican effort to capture the seat, but it could be an interesting race if that polling is accurate.
   1094. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5679673)
If you, law-abiding American, pull out your Constitutionally Protected Firearm and shoot at an evil-doer but miss and hit a bystander, what is your liability?

I'm pretty sure the bystander is charged with felony murder.
   1095. zenbitz Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5679676)
@1062 I have to shout out my FIL who is a white protestant fundamentalist Christian who is a true Christian spirit. I am pretty sure if you slapped him, he would literally turn the other cheek.

   1096. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5679678)
I am pretty sure if you slapped him, he would literally turn the other cheek.


When and where is your next family get-together?
   1097. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5679679)
1. The FBI wasn't led by the D party in the 2016 election. This is ####### obvious to everyone, but let me repeat it just for consistency.
Right. Comey stood up to Lynch. Except those times that he didn't. And of course McCabe and his wife were in the pockets of the Clintonista governor from Virginia.

And now do the CIA.
2. Let me google that for you.
And?
   1098. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5679680)
Yes. Unless the Trumpkins want to concede that the FBI is now being led by the R party. Weirdly they don't want to go there, nope it only ever works one way for the GOP.

Note: Of course even if they were to concede it, they would be wrong. Wrong, but at least consistent with their own line of BS. Now they are wrong and hypocrites.
See #1097.

BTW, sorry for your loss. Dakota was a very handsome fella.
   1099. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5679683)
Hey, I get it. They feed you three meals a day, the temperature stays at 72°, and you get free mlb.tv on your phone. It can happen to the best of people.
You asked me about Kasich and I answered. He's a clown and his campaign manager, John Weaver, is beyond awful.

I'd give real consideration to backing a Romney or Sasse but figure the odds of either running as a primary challenger is 20-1; as an independent, it's more like 50-1.
   1100. TDF didn't lie, he just didn't remember Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5679685)
So Clapper posted this lie almost 6 hours ago, and no one has challenged it. Why not?
Relatedy, the FBI recently reported that 16% of active shooter crimes were stopped by law-abiding citizens with a gun.
This is decidedly not what the FBI report says. It said (on page 2) that "8 (out of 50) shooters were stopped by citizens". But if you actually read the report, you learn there were only 4 incidents where a "good guy with a gun" did anything:
Citizen Engagement and Casualties

In 10 incidents, citizens confronted the shooter. In eight of those incidents, one or more citizens safely and successfully acted to end the shooting.

■ In four incidents, unarmed citizens confronted or persuaded the shooter to end the shooting. In two incidents, school staff confronted and restrained the shooter. In one incident, the citizen used his car to thwart the shooter. In one incident, the citizen persuaded the shooter to surrender via telephone during a police chase; she ran up to the shooter’s car as he came to a stop and pulled him out of his seat, bringing the chase to an end.

■ In four incidents, citizens possessing valid firearms permits successfully stopped the shooter. In two incidents, citizens exchanged gunfire with the shooter. In two incidents, the citizens held the shooter at gunpoint until law enforcement arrived.

■ In one incident, a citizen possessing a valid firearms permit exchanged gunfire with the shooter, causing the shooter to flee to another scene and continue shooting.

■ In one incident, a citizen possessing a valid firearms permit was wounded before he could fire at the shooter.
IOW, as many people without firearms ended events as those with firearms, with the added bonus not causing another incident where "the shooter (fled) to another scene and continue(d) shooting"
Page 11 of 14 pages ‹ First  < 9 10 11 12 13 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Mike Emeigh
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogHow Major League Teams Are Using Bobbleheads to Skirt Tax Laws
(8 - 6:23am, Jun 21)
Last: You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR)

NewsblogOTP 2018 June 18: How Life Imitates the Congressional Baseball Game
(1000 - 6:12am, Jun 21)
Last: I Am Merely a Fake Lawyer

NewsblogOT - 2018 NBA Summer Potpourri (finals, draft, free agency, Colangelo dragging)
(1365 - 1:48am, Jun 21)
Last: tshipman

Sox TherapyA Pleasant Trip So Far
(17 - 1:23am, Jun 21)
Last: Chip

NewsblogFormer MLB pitcher Kevin Brown reportedly held two mail thieves at gunpoint until police arrived
(261 - 1:15am, Jun 21)
Last: baxter

NewsblogBBTF ANNUAL CENTRAL PARK SOFTBALL GAME 2018
(118 - 12:37am, Jun 21)
Last: Ray (CTL)

NewsblogOMNICHATTER wants to be in the room where it happens, June 20, 2018
(156 - 12:34am, Jun 21)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (World Cup)
(615 - 11:21pm, Jun 20)
Last: Richard

NewsblogKelvin Herrera Trade Start of Something Big for Nationals
(44 - 10:20pm, Jun 20)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 6-20-2018
(15 - 9:46pm, Jun 20)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 6-19-2018
(53 - 9:07pm, Jun 20)
Last: Hank G.

NewsblogDeadspin: Former Blue Jay Kelly Gruber Disinvited From Canadian Baseball Hall Of Fame Festivities
(14 - 8:17pm, Jun 20)
Last: TomH

Gonfalon CubsClicking
(71 - 4:05pm, Jun 20)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

NewsblogGrumpy Gossage Napalms His Bridges:BWitz:NYT (reg req.)
(103 - 3:54pm, Jun 20)
Last: SandyRiver

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (April - June 2018)
(3812 - 2:29pm, Jun 20)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

Page rendered in 0.7400 seconds
46 querie(s) executed