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Monday, May 21, 2018

OTP 2018 May 21: President takes British royalty to a baseball game, May 15, 1991

The 65-year-old queen, dressed in a below-the-knee blue and red dress, black gloves and three strands of pearls, entered the Orioles dugout along the third base line. She formed a receiving line with her husband and the president, clad in a navy blazer, and Barbara Bush. The first lady wore a blue and white floral print dress.

While the VIP guests took their positions designated by their names on 3-by-5 cards, the song “Brown-Eyed Girl” played over the stadium’s public-address system. Their images appeared on the video screen in right-center field.

“I’ve been playing baseball for 10 years, and I’m used to a normal atmosphere,” said Cal Ripken Jr., the Orioles shortstop, after exchanging handshakes. “This is a lot different. There’s a lot of excitement.”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 21, 2018 at 07:42 AM | 1375 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: baltimore orioles, oakland athletics, off topic, politics, polyamorous wood

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   1101. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5679686)
Acknowledging mistakes? Not saying the war would have been an incredible success had we only 'surged' and sent more of the nation's children to die? You know what that spells...RINO!!
Based on what we know now? Duh.

Based on what we knew then? The occupation was the #### up, not the invasion/liberation.
   1102. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5679689)
You asked me about Kasich and I answered. He's a clown of a different sort


That feeling when John "women aren't home anymore to pickup the phone" isn't far right enough otherwise. Pretty soon the "purity" test for a potential RINO will be a cross between John Bolton on foreign policy and Donald Trump and Steven Miller domestically. With a dash of Mercerism thrown in for the 1%. It's a crazy coalition of shitheads you got going when Jason thinks John Kasich is closer to your average independent ("will guarantee a Trump win") than the Trump GOP.

lol, nice edit jason.
   1103. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5679691)
That feeling when John "women aren't home anymore to pickup the phone" isn't far right enough otherwise. Pretty soon the "purity" test for a potential RINO will be a cross between John Bolton on foreign policy and Donald Trump and Steven Miller domestically. With a dash of Mercerism thrown in for the 1%. It's a crazy coalition of shitheads you got going when Jason thinks John Kasich is closer to your average independent ("will guarantee a Trump win") than the Trump GOP.
Folks like you are too stooopid to realize that Trump represents *on balance* a move toward the center.
lol, nice edit jason.
Shrug. My edits were stylistic, not substantive. Weaver's a disaster. I'll give serious consideration to Romney or Sasse in the very unlikely scenario that they run.
   1104. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 04:04 PM (#5679693)
So would you vote for Kasich over Trump, if you lived in a swing state?

Probably not.

Motherfucker of Mercy, you really are deep in the swamp.

1. Trump hasn't been as awful as I had feared.

Hey, I get it. They feed you three meals a day, the temperature stays at 72°, and you get free mlb.tv on your phone. It can happen to the best of people.

You asked me about Kasich and I answered. He's a clown and his campaign manager, John Weaver, is beyond awful.


Whereas Trump is a statesman, as seen by his cabinet appointments and his pre-dawn tweet wars with journalists and assorted celebrities. Brother, the Stockholm Syndrome doesn't even begin to describe the depth to which you've descended in your acceptance of your captor.
   1105. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 04:04 PM (#5679694)
So Clapper posted this lie almost 6 hours ago, and no one has challenged it. Why not?

Because it would be like pointing out water is wet. It's all he is.
   1106. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: May 25, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5679696)
So Clapper posted this lie almost 6 hours ago, and no one has challenged it. Why not?
Well, Trump has normalized both a creative interpretation of reality, and an utter lack of accountability for doing so, so I guess no one bothers any more. Sad.
   1107. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 25, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5679697)
Yankee Clapper, #1090:
It's possible some of us may have overestimated New Jersey's tolerance for ethically compromised politicians - Poll Gives Senator Robert Menendez (D-NJ) Only A 4% Lead, 28% - 24%, with 46% undecided. That's a lot of undecided voters for a well-known incumbent. Menendez has clearly been hurt by the corruption charges that led to his being "severely admonished" by the Senate Ethics Committee. Maybe underage Dominican hookers don't play well in the #Me Too environment? The likely GOP candidate is a relatively unknown business executive. It's unclear how well he will hold up in the face of what will surely be an all out Democratic effort to hold the seat, but it could be an interesting race if that polling is accurate.

This is genuinely exciting. New Jersey last elected a Republican Senator in 1972, just three weeks before the release of the video game Pong. That was the year 18-year-olds first got the vote; they're 64 years old now.

For more than two generations, New Jersey Senate races have been the tantalizing Shangri-La where GOP money goes to die. But with a Republican candidate getting practically one-fourth of the vote, against the feloniest felon who ever feloned, in a given poll, the sky might just be the limit.

Yankee Clapper is always so skeptical of Democrats throwing away money on unexpectedly contestable races. It's wonderful to see that given slightly different circumstances, hope can bloom yet within his beating chest.



Maybe underage Dominican hookers don't play well in the #Me Too environment?


It's also a positive development to see Clapper finally find an accused pedophile candidate for the U.S. Senate that he can openly oppose.
   1108. strong silence Posted: May 25, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5679723)
I'm interested in learning more about bourbon whiskey. To date, I've been infrequently selecting bottles on a whim without knowing anything about the broad spectrum of tastes. Would someone give me a list of 4-5 brands that could serve as " sampler" of different tastes, regardless of cost?

For those interested in rational and sane views about the FBI, collusion and conspiracy, this radio show offers them.
http://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/to-the-point/trumps-war-on-the-fbi
   1109. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5679726)
I'm interested in learning more about bourbon whiskey. To date, I've been infrequently selecting bottles on a whim without knowing anything about the broad spectrum of tastes. Would someone give me a list of 4-5 brands that could serve as " sampler" of different tastes, regardless of cost?

Clapper has decided these topics belong in OT-Pop Culture. So there's more space for his lies over here, I guess.
   1110. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 25, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5679727)
Trump is a move towards the center. Oh my. Jason, you've turned into a /pol bot. I think Bannon has a sleeper hold on your mind.
   1111. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: May 25, 2018 at 05:39 PM (#5679733)
Trump is a move towards the center.
Compared to Cruz, I suppose that would be true.

So Jason - you're telling us that if you, personally, could choose the President of the United States from January, 2021 through January, 2025, you would prefer Donald Trump, and everything he implies and represents, to John Kasich.

And the reasoning, paraphrasing, is that Trump isn't as much of a trainwreck as you'd feared he would be.

That's.... remarkable.
   1112. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 06:08 PM (#5679735)
It’s Juanderful.
   1113. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: May 25, 2018 at 06:56 PM (#5679745)
   1114. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 25, 2018 at 07:22 PM (#5679746)
Trump used made up Hispanic names


Juanabout Juan A. Bout?
   1115. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 25, 2018 at 07:32 PM (#5679748)
I guess the Spanish were spying on him too:

The FBI has obtained secret wiretaps collected by Spanish police of conversations involving Alexander Torshin that led to a meeting with Donald Trump Jr. during the gun lobby’s annual convention in Louisville in May, 2016, a top Spanish prosecutor said Friday.2)


As Schindler has long said, the amount of dirt the Trump family was involved in was picked up my more than just US IC. It was picked up by Western IC, including Europe. I'd guess Mueller has received most of it.

Trump used made up Hispanic names


And that little smarmy ####, Kushner, was laughing.
   1116. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:26 PM (#5679762)
“Speedy Gonzales” is not a made-up name.
   1117. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:32 PM (#5679763)
Trump is a move towards the center.
Of course, that's not my quote.
Compared to Cruz, I suppose that would be true.
Off the top of my head, here are five issues where Trump is to the left of Romney 2012: Infrastructure, parental leave, immigration, entitlement reform, and prison reform.
So Jason - you're telling us that if you, personally, could choose the President of the United States from January, 2021 through January, 2025, you would prefer Donald Trump, and everything he implies and represents, to John Kasich.

And the reasoning, paraphrasing, is that Trump isn't as much of a trainwreck as you'd feared he would be.
Also, Kasich has failed to impress since he cockblocked Cruz in the early spring of 2016.
That's.... remarkable.
Is it? How so?
   1118. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:38 PM (#5679766)
That's.... remarkable.

Is it? How so?

It is remarkable, because the brainwashing you have undergone, from constantly inhaling orange cheeto dust, has seeped so deeply into your mind, that you no longer recognize how remarkable it is.
   1119. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 08:47 PM (#5679771)
I guess the Spanish were spying on him too:


Aye yi yi, el estato profundo!
   1120. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:01 PM (#5679777)
Jason is pretty much living evidence of Hannah Arendt's theories on the normalization of political violence through discourse. ICE is shooting 20 year old migrants in the head that are cowering in fields, but as long as it's not Jason or his people under constant threat of violence and attack things are fine. And Jason isn't doing that himself anyways! He's just a good, hard working person that loves his country and wants it strong, like Trump.
   1121. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:01 PM (#5679778)
Hehehehe:
"Austin Powers: The Confidential Human Source Who Shagged Me"
   1122. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:05 PM (#5679781)
Jason is pretty much living evidence of Hannah Arendt's theories on the normalization of political violence through discourse. ICE is shooting 20 year old migrants in the head that are cowering in fields, but as long as it's not Jason or his people under constant threat of violence and attack things are fine. And Jason isn't doing that himself anyways! He's just a good, hard working person that loves his country and wants it strong.
Because ICE didn't shoot illegals prior to 2017, MV?
   1123. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:06 PM (#5679783)
This is pretty standard felony murder. It's completely just

You are confusing what is legal, with what is just.


No, I'm not. Legal and fair are different concepts, the latter more subjective than the former, but I think the felony murder rule is completely just -- including when applied here.

Now, I can't speak to the 35 year sentence, which seems extremely excessive particularly given that the defendant was 15 at the time of the crime. But I don't know the specifics involved (the facts or the local law and sentencing guidelines) to be able to judge.
   1124. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:08 PM (#5679785)
That has nothing to do with the issue

That’s the whole issue. If an innocent or a cop had been killed, it’s dog-bites-man.


It has nothing to do with the legal issue. If a co-criminal is killed it's dog bites man. This is bog standard application of the f-m rule.
   1125. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:08 PM (#5679786)
In case a few people are slow and haven’t figured it out, the institution reinstated FLTB’s internet privileges; he’s now posting as “--” in 1013 and 1015.


I thought he had switched to this -- or to something close to it -- some weeks ago.
   1126. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:10 PM (#5679787)
Noted because some insist it never happens - Armed Citizen Kills Shooter At Restaurant. Relatedy, the FBI recently reported that 16% of active shooter crimes were stopped by law-abiding citizens with a gun.


There was another incident last week:

A Good Military-Trained Mother With a Gun.
   1127. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:12 PM (#5679789)
Right. Keep in mind, of course, you're talking to Clapper about honesty, so that's going nowhere.


Clapper is not a liar. He views the world through a certain political and ideological lens, which is no different from... well, you.
   1128. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:12 PM (#5679790)
Relatedy, the FBI recently reported that 16% of active shooter crimes were stopped by law-abiding citizens with a gun.
There was another incident last week:


Keep reading, you're quoting lies.
   1129. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:13 PM (#5679791)
If I were running the world, the kid who got 65 years for 2 counts of theft, 1 count of burglary, and 1 count of having his accomplice shot by police, would switch his sentence with this guy:

STOCKTON - A longtime Stockton businessman was sentenced Wednesday to just 90 days of house arrest and five years of informal probation after pleading no contest to statutory rape of a child.

The man, 79-year-old Lyle Burgess, does not have to register as a sex offender.

Girl was 5 years old. Jesus fucking Christ. What a world.
   1130. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:14 PM (#5679792)
I'd never heard of Colonel Jessup,


He's the guy who once peed on a hooker's face and into her mouth, according to this book.
   1131. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:14 PM (#5679793)
Infrastructure, parental leave, immigration, entitlement reform, and prison reform.

Ooooohhh tell us about the infrastructure plans!
   1132. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:15 PM (#5679796)
EDIT: Or even Trumpian:

“No I will not shed a tear if that newspaper is no longer here,” Mayor de Blasio says of @nypost. “The Post is not like everyone else” and their presence in our city is “harmful,” he adds.


Of course, the notion that Trump is the rare politician who does this is a myth.
   1133. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5679798)
This is pretty standard felony murder. It's completely just

You are confusing what is legal, with what is just.

No, I'm not. Legal and fair are different concepts, the latter more subjective than the former, but I think the felony murder rule is completely just -- including when applied here.

I stand corrected. You aren't confused. You are just an immoral monster.
   1134. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:17 PM (#5679800)
I'm not seeing the strong distinction between "contrarian" and "shameless self-promoter" that you're implicitly positing, Howie. Contrariness is a tool for self-promotion; being the 500th law professor to call Trump an incompetent buffoon/crook doesn't garner attention, while being one of a couple of guys (especially nominally liberal guys) defending him does.


You can't call Turley a fake lawyer so you resort to "He's a self promoter" as you do with Dershowitz.

I'm beginning to think that you're not able to hang with Turley on the substance.
   1135. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5679801)
I just find it ironic jason that as a jewish person you seem clueless as to the struggles of "the other". you posted that Romney was "to the left" of Trump on immigration.

Well, he wouldn't be a racist demagogue, virtue signalling about the National Guard at the border and MS 13 and separating families swept up in raids and at the border, out of unnecessary cruelty, again to virtue signal to a racist segment of society and embolden them. Hell, he's emboldened you. Look at your own posts since Trump took over. Your transformation has been...lamentable.

Trump is turning brown people into "the other". You don't get that, like seriously, given history? The history of your people? Ugh.

Anyways, my work day is OVAH! You guys have a great weekend. I'm headed to the woods.
   1136. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:19 PM (#5679803)
I stand corrected. You aren't confused. You are just an immoral monster.


I'm beginning to think you don't understand the basic concepts involved here.
   1137. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5679805)
I'm beginning to think you don't understand the basic concepts involved here.

The basic concept, is that 65 years in jail, for the actual crimes he committed (of a 15 year old no less), is completely outrageous. You are the only person here who doesn't see that.
   1138. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:23 PM (#5679807)
I stand corrected. You aren't confused. You are just an immoral monster.
Ah, but where does Ray rank all-time?
   1139. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5679810)
you posted that Romney was "to the left" of Trump on immigration.
Despite all the bravado, Trump as POTUS is to the *left* of candidate Romney.
Anyways, my work day is OVAH! You guys have a great weekend.
Thanks, MV! You too. Where are you spending this long weekend?
I'm headed to the woods.
Prospect Park?
   1140. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:30 PM (#5679814)
ACLU Report: Detained Immigrant Children Subjected To Widespread Abuse By Officials
Immigrant children in the custody of U.S. border authorities allegedly suffered pervasive abuse ranging from insults and threats to physical assaults, according to documents reviewed by the American Civil Liberties Union.

A report released this week by the ACLU is based on more than 30,000 pages of documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act. The documents, it says, "expose of culture of impunity" within U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Department of Homeland Security.

In response, Customs and Border Protection issued a strongly worded statement in which it called the ACLU report "unfounded and baseless."

The documents describe hundreds of cases of alleged abuse said to have occurred between 2009 and 2014, according to Mitra Ebadolahi, staff attorney with the ACLU's Border Litigation Project.

"These documents provide a glimpse into a federal immigration enforcement system marked by brutality and lawlessness," Ebadolahi said in a statement.

The allegations include reports of physical, verbal, sexual and psychological abuse of migrant children and the denial of clean drinking water and adequate food.
Emphasis mine.

So... who was POTUS between 2009 and 2014? (scratches chin whiskers)
   1141. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:38 PM (#5679823)
“No I will not shed a tear if that newspaper is no longer here,” Mayor de Blasio says of @nypost. “The Post is not like everyone else” and their presence in our city is “harmful,” he adds.
Stephen Miller (the other one):
I don't believe any of these attacks on the press are true because I'm not seeing them anywhere on @brianstelter's timeline.

Later:
I guess CNN's crack team of First Amendment Gatekeepers all went home early for the holiday weekend.
   1142. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:45 PM (#5679832)
BTW, sorry for your loss. Dakota was a very handsome fella.


Thanks man. He was a great dog and I will miss him. It has been quite a day, first the dog then the whole afternoon with the eldest boy in the ER. (The boy survived nicely, unlike the dog).
   1143. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:49 PM (#5679837)
   1144. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:50 PM (#5679838)
Keep reading, you're quoting lies.

Give your pretentious partisan preaching a rest. I came across a legal blog that characterized the study that way and linked to a news article that did the same, with the article linking to the actual study. I then linked directly to the study here without noting that it apparently lumped the armed and unarmed civilian interventions together. If you ever made an actual substantive post, it might happen to you. In any event, I know which group I'd prefer to be among if confronted by an active shooter incident.
   1145. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:51 PM (#5679839)
The boy survived nicely
Glad to hear.
   1146. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5679840)

Of course, the notion that Trump is the rare politician who does this is a myth.
No, it isn't.
   1147. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 09:57 PM (#5679844)
CRS:
Oversight, as an outgrowth of this principle, ideally serves a number of overlapping objectives
and purposes:

• improve the efficiency, economy, and effectiveness of governmental operations;
• evaluate programs and performance;
detect and prevent poor administration, waste, abuse, arbitrary and capricious
behavior, or illegal and unconstitutional conduct;

protect civil liberties and constitutional rights;
inform the general public and ensure that executive policies reflect the public
interest;

• gather information to develop new legislative proposals or to amend existing
statutes;
• ensure administrative compliance with legislative intent; and
• prevent executive encroachment on legislative authority and prerogatives.

In sum, oversight is a way for Congress to check on, and check, the executive branch.
Emphasis mine.
   1148. Lassus Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5679857)
If you ever made an actual substantive post

I made one on the previous page about Vehicular Homicide accomplices vs. the case being discussed. I also had some exchanges with David regarding what would be considered reasonable in that case. So, as usual, you have a pitcher's BA for accuracy.

However, you are correct in that I am spending too much time on your wet water of endless null-principle assertions. That's an issue and I should and will fix.
   1149. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:27 PM (#5679869)
ACLU Report: Detained Immigrant Children Subjected To Widespread Abuse By Officials

Immigrant children in the custody of U.S. border authorities allegedly suffered pervasive abuse ranging from insults and threats to physical assaults, according to documents reviewed by the American Civil Liberties Union.

A report released this week by the ACLU is based on more than 30,000 pages of documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act. The documents, it says, "expose of culture of impunity" within U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Department of Homeland Security.

In response, Customs and Border Protection issued a strongly worded statement in which it called the ACLU report "unfounded and baseless."

The documents describe hundreds of cases of alleged abuse said to have occurred between 2009 and 2014, according to Mitra Ebadolahi, staff attorney with the ACLU's Border Litigation Project.

"These documents provide a glimpse into a federal immigration enforcement system marked by brutality and lawlessness," Ebadolahi said in a statement.

The allegations include reports of physical, verbal, sexual and psychological abuse of migrant children and the denial of clean drinking water and adequate food.

Emphasis mine.

So... who was POTUS between 2009 and 2014? (scratches chin whiskers)


That would've been Obama, but it's not as if it's not getting worse since Trump took office, and it's not as if his hateful rhetoric isn't encouraging the offenders to think that he'll always make excuses for them. But that's what you get when government agencies essentially treat human beings as animals, and nativist politicians cheer them on.

In a better world, this report would lead to better Congressional oversight and a complete purge of the responsible officials, no matter who appointed them. In the real world of 2018, the human misery will only increase, and the blame will be put on the people who were simply trying to escape from an impossible situation.
   1150. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 25, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5679875)

That would've been Obama, but it's not as if it's not getting worse since Trump took office,
[Citation needed.]

Anyway, they can't be abusing immigrant children under Trump, because they lost all the children anyway.
   1151. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:15 PM (#5679885)
Judicial Nominations Update:
Current & Known Future Vacancies: 177
Courts of Appeals: 22
District/Specialty Courts: 155

Nominees for Current & Future Vacancies: 85
Courts of Appeals: 10
District/Specialty Courts: 75

Nominees Awaiting Floor Votes: 40
Courts of Appeals: 2
District/Specialty Courts: 38

Confirmed by the Senate: 39
Supreme Court: 1
Courts of Appeals: 21
District/Specialty Courts: 17

Majority Leader McConnell recently indicated that his goal was to have a vote this year on all nominations received by July 1, which seems somewhat ambitious given the current level of Democratic delay & opposition, suggesting he's contemplating doing some during a post-election session.
   1152. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 25, 2018 at 11:55 PM (#5679896)
   1153. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:08 AM (#5679900)
The basic concept, is that 65 years in jail, for the actual crimes he committed (of a 15 year old no less), is completely outrageous. You are the only person here who doesn't see that.


1. I read 35 years.

2. I agreed above in post 1123 that 35 years "seems extremely excessive particularly given that the defendant was 15 at the time of the crime."

Now. Would you like to call me an immoral monster based on anything I've actually written, or are you content to just make it all up in your mind and then criticize me for what you imagine I said.
   1154. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:13 AM (#5679902)
Relatedy, the FBI recently reported that 16% of active shooter crimes were stopped by law-abiding citizens with a gun.

There was another incident last week:

Keep reading, you're quoting lies.


Why, did the story I linked to about the Good Military-Trained Mother With a Gun turn out to be false?
   1155. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:16 AM (#5679903)
Keep reading, you're quoting lies.

Give your pretentious partisan preaching a rest. I came across a legal blog that characterized the study that way and linked to a news article that did the same, with the article linking to the actual study. I then linked directly to the study here without noting that it apparently lumped the armed and unarmed civilian interventions together. If you ever made an actual substantive post, it might happen to you.


It's hard to make a substantive mistake when all you do is Ask Questions.
   1156. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 26, 2018 at 01:39 AM (#5679910)
Scientific American:
In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least. Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not.

This evidence has been slow to accumulate because of restrictions placed by Congress on one of the country's biggest injury research funders, the CDC. Since the mid-1990s the agency has been effectively blocked from supporting gun violence research. And the NRA and many gun owners have emphasized a small handful of studies that point the other way.

States with right-to-carry concealed handgun laws experience increases in violent crime, according to Stanford scholar: “There is not even the slightest hint in the data that RTC laws reduce overall violent crime.”


Dallas Police Chief David Brown: “We don’t know who the good guy is versus the bad guy if everybody starts shooting.”
   1157. Traderdave Posted: May 26, 2018 at 03:24 AM (#5679915)

Why, did the story I linked to about the Good Military-Trained Mother With a Gun turn out to be false?


Serious question, Ray: What experience do you have with guns? What training? Both hand guns and long guns? Please elaborate.

I ask because you make declarations about guns' effectiveness but show no understanding of what it takes to handle a gun wisely & steadily.

A gun is only useful for defense if it's kept at the ready. A piece safely & sanely stored in a gun safe takes a minute or three to access. In the NRA's silly stereotype of home invasion, a safely stored gun is not much use.

The trouble is that a gun at the ready is exponentially more dangerous to its owner and his/her household that it ever could be versus a Bad Guy. Murders, suicides and accidents kill far more Good Guys than Bad Guys.

The other thing is that using a gun responsibly requires a lot of practice and experience and a lot of training to follow protocol. The moment when a gun might be needed is one of EXTREME adrenaline and nerves on fire. Under those circs it's hard to shoot accurately, and even harder to make a well though out decision to shoot or hold fire. I'm an experienced hunter (almost all archery) and even now still a get a bit of buck fever now & then. When that happens, the arrow usually misses. Accurate shooting of any weapon requires a rock steady hand and almost no one without significant police or military training has that ability.
   1158. Lassus Posted: May 26, 2018 at 05:52 AM (#5679918)
Why, did the story I linked to about the Good Military-Trained Mother With a Gun turn out to be false?

Don't be an asshole on purpose. You know exactly what I was talking about, so this is disingenuous.
   1159. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: May 26, 2018 at 06:22 AM (#5679919)
1. I read 35 years.

From the original story: In April 2018 a judge sentenced him to 30 years in prison for Washington’s death, plus an additional 35 years for two counts of theft and one count of burglary.
Pretty sure 30 + 35 = 65

Now. Would you like to call me an immoral monster based on anything I've actually written, or are you content to just make it all up in your mind and then criticize me for what you imagine I said.

This is pretty standard felony murder. It's completely just
I think the felony murder rule is completely just -- including when applied here.
Now, I can't speak to the 35 year sentence, which seems extremely excessive particularly given that the defendant was 15 at the time of the crime. But I don't know the specifics involved (the facts or the local law and sentencing guidelines) to be able to judge.

Those are the quotes that make you an immoral monster. You are welcome. The fact that you think that whether or not this is a just sentence, depends on the local law and sentencing guidelines, really says it all. That is not a moral stance. The sentence may be lawful, nobody is disputing that. Slavery was once lawful, doesn't mean it was just. The overly harsh "war on drugs" sentencing guidelines are also lawful and unjust. Civil asset forfeiture is in many places lawful and unjust.
I haven't seen anybody who thinks the court got the law wrong. But just because it is lawful, does not make this sentence just (i.e. "based on what is morally right and fair"). A law that puts a 15 year old in jail until he is 80, for unarmed burglary of a house, is ridiculously unjust. Whether one of his accomplices got shot by police or not.
   1160. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 26, 2018 at 07:14 AM (#5679920)
Best news of the year, Irish division:

Ireland is poised to repeal its abortion ban, according to early tallies of votes
DUBLIN, Ireland — The Irish are poised to end, perhaps in a landslide, one of the most restrictive abortion bans in the developed world, according to incoming tallies of the votes cast in Friday’s referendum.

The first tallies of votes on Saturday morning mirrored the results of two respected exit polls that suggested a decisive win for the campaign to repeal the Eighth Amendment to the Irish constitution. The 1983 amendment enshrined an “equal right to life” for mothers and “the unborn” and outlawed almost all abortions — even in cases of rape, incest, fatal fetal abnormality or risk to maternal health.

Simon Harris, Ireland’s Minister of Health, tweeted late Friday that he would “sleep tonight in the hope of waking up to a country that is more compassionate, more caring and more respectful.”

Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, who supports repeal, said he thought Ireland was about to make history.

Campaigners for repeal, watching the votes being counted in auditoriums and civil halls around Ireland, were tweeting that most boxes contained a majority for repeal.

The Irish Times exit poll, conducted by Ipsos MRBI, had 68 percent favoring repeal and 32 percent against, with a margin of error of +/-1.5 percentage points.

The poll released by Irish broadcaster RTE, commissioned in association with Irish universities, had 69.4 percent voting yes to repeal and 30.6 percent voting no, with a margin of error of +/-1.6 percentage points.

The official tally of the vote began at 9 a.m. Saturday, with a final count expected later in the day. About 3.3 million Irish had registered to vote, and many appeared to be returning from abroad to cast ballots.

Reports from polling stations around the country indicated turnout of 70 percent in some areas, the highest ever for a referendum vote. By comparison, turnout was just over 60 percent when Ireland voted to legalize same-sex marriage in 2015. ...

Given that many observers were predicting a too-close-to-call outcome, I'd say these results give a new twist to the concept of a "silent majority".
   1161. Stormy JE Posted: May 26, 2018 at 07:42 AM (#5679923)
From Gonfalon's first link:
“No. No. I don’t want to create any confusion about that,” Isikoff replied, making it clear the tapes were from 2013, not the NRA convention, and thus were not even from the same year.
Snore.

From his second:
Mr. Cohen’s goal for the meeting [which took place *after* the election] — and whether it may have been related to his consulting business — remains unclear.
Snore.

From his third:
The interest in Stone's finances could be tied to Mueller's charge of investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 election and potential collusion, though another possibility is Mueller is pursuing something unrelated that turned up in the course of the investigation.
Snore.

From his fourth: Ha'aretz has a pretty stubborn paywall. Not that Shalev is known for sharing useful info, but have you got an extended excerpt you wish to share? Or was the headline alone sufficient to get you hard? Also, snore.

From his fifth:
Republicans, in contrast, have been uncharacteristically mum since the Thursday meetings, with Nunes choosing not to comment and House Speaker Paul Ryan simply saying, “I cannot and will not comment on a classified session . . . I look forward to the prompt completion of the intelligence committee’s oversight work in this area.”
So the Republicans don't leak classified info? Snore.

From his sixth:

A tweet from yesterday morning blaming Democrats for... snore.

Thanks, Gonfalon!


In contrast, this from Ross on the latest WaPo misdirect article is amusing:
It's quite blatant how IC people and Democrats are solely focused on the "spy" semantics while ignoring real issue. I remember about a month ago when they were crowing about how Page FISA wasn't issued until after he was off campaign.
Or this from Jason Beale:
Truly remarkable piece - The FBI "talked to" some guy who "had conversations with" Trump campaign staff. Nothing to see here.
   1162. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 07:49 AM (#5679924)
Snore


Snore


Snore


Juan isn’t doing much to dispel the “lazy Hispanic” stereotype this sunny spring morning.
   1163. Stormy JE Posted: May 26, 2018 at 07:56 AM (#5679926)
And again, the $64,000 question:

Was the deployment of a confidential informant to covertly collect info on members of the Trump campaign predicated by sufficient evidence of criminal activity?

If so, that evidence needs to be shared.

EDIT: Also, did any senior official at the Bureau meet with Ambassador Downer before or on around the same date of the latter's mid-May meeting with Papadopoulos?
   1164. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 08:00 AM (#5679927)
And again, the $64,000 question:


“How can we best protect my fat, bald, narcissistic simpleton of a hero from the predations of (((Soros))) and his minions?”
   1165. Stormy JE Posted: May 26, 2018 at 08:06 AM (#5679929)
Yup:
Since the Obama admin's intel trifecta of Clapper, Brennan and Comey have smashmouthed Trump all over the media upon leaving the gov't, is it so hard to believe the IC would use all its power to sabotage his campaign and undermine his administration?
   1166. Stormy JE Posted: May 26, 2018 at 08:20 AM (#5679931)
Don't Worry About That Diet Soda Habit: Artificial Sweeteners Are Harmless, Say Scientists:
Good news for fans of diet drinks and sugar-free sweets: You can safely ignore the hype about zero-calorie sweeteners somehow triggering weight gain and metabolic issues, according to a team of U.S. and European scientists.

The potential paradox of diet soda fueling weight gain had a lot of traction in popular health media. But this idea was based on inconsistent rodent research results, plus human studies that found links between artificial-sweetener consumption and ill effects but not a causal relationship.

A new article in the journal Obesity Reviews summarizes last year's "Beyond Calories—Diet and Cardiometabolic Health" conference, sponsored by the CrossFit Foundation. The event convened doctors, obesity researchers, molecular biologists, nutrition scientists, and other academics from the U.S., Denmark, and Germany to consider whether all calories are "equal with regard to effects on cardiometabolic disease and obesity."

"There is no doubt that positive energy balance, due to excessive caloric consumption and/or inadequate physical activity, is the main driver of the obesity and cardiometabolic epidemics," write Janet King and Laura Schmidt in the paper's introduction. But there's also evidence that "certain dietary components increase risk" for heart disease and weight gain in ways that go beyond a simple tradeoff between calories consumed and calories burned.
Yuge!
   1167. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 26, 2018 at 08:46 AM (#5679933)
Juan isn’t doing much to dispel the “lazy Hispanic” stereotype this sunny spring morning.

As he continues his nearly perfect record of linking to nothing but unidentified right wing tweets and opinion pieces.** I'm surprised he doesn't just quote all of Trump's tweets verbatim and eliminate the middlemen, but I guess he's got his Daily Quota of Daily Callers to fulfill.

** Imagine his reaction if all we liberals did was quote from HuffPost and The Nation.

   1168. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:27 AM (#5679937)
In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least. Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not.
Correlation vs. causation: how do they work?
This evidence has been slow to accumulate because of restrictions placed by Congress on one of the country's biggest injury research funders, the CDC. Since the mid-1990s the agency has been effectively blocked from supporting gun violence research. And the NRA and many gun owners have emphasized a small handful of studies that point the other way.
Since the premise is a lie -- no such "block" was ever in place (indeed, the previous paragraph cites CDC research!) -- it's hard to take the rest seriously. And there have been many many studies going the other way. A fairer statement would be that (a) research is inconclusive, and (b) research is irrelevant since we're discussing a constitutional right, which does not depend on research. If studies found that newspapers were substantively terrible and people who read them were less informed than people who got their news from Twitter, that would be utterly irrelevant to laws about what newspapers could publish.
   1169. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5679938)
A gun is only useful for defense if it's kept at the ready. A piece safely & sanely stored in a gun safe takes a minute or three to access. In the NRA's silly stereotype of home invasion, a safely stored gun is not much use.
I have no idea what you mean by "the NRA's silly stereotype." It's the anti-gun nuts who want to make firearms almost impossible to use by requiring that they be stored so securely that it would take an experienced safecracker a week to get them out. The NRA simply promotes safe storage. Which does not make them useless in home defense; I don't know why you think that. I mean, if you're sitting on the couch in the living room and someone bursts in, and your gun is in your bedroom upstairs in a safe, yeah, it won't be useful. But it wouldn't be useful if it were laying out on your dresser, either. If you're in bed at night and someone kicks in your front door downstairs -- a scenario that happened to one of my classmates in law school -- you should have sufficient time to retrieve your gun. (Except that my classmate didn't have a gun because he was living with his aunt in Queens.)

The trouble is that a gun at the ready is exponentially more dangerous to its owner and his/her household that it ever could be versus a Bad Guy. Murders, suicides and accidents kill far more Good Guys than Bad Guys.
Suicide is irrelevant. It's none of anyone's business. So being honest and limiting things to homicides, no, a "gun at the ready" is not more dangerous to good guys, not to mention that it is a dishonest gun grabber trick to talk about "killing" bad guys. Self defense is not about killing a bad guy; it's about protecting yourself from a bad guy. If there's a home invasion and you use your firearm to scare off the intruder without firing a shot, that's a success story for a firearm owner, but people like Hemingway just completely ignore it. Defensive gun uses number In the several million per year. (And inconveniently for the narrative, the only CDC research ever buried was that confirming Kleck's research in that regard.)
Accurate shooting of any weapon requires a rock steady hand and almost no one without significant police or military training has that ability.
Bullshit. I won't speak to the military -- about whom I assume/hope you're right -- but police training is worse than that of almost any gun enthusiast. (Of course, not all gun owners by any stretch of the imagination are gun enthusiasts -- and some cops are. But if the cops are, that's on their own, not part of their police training.)
   1170. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:51 AM (#5679940)
Serious question, Ray: What experience do you have with guns? What training? Both hand guns and long guns? Please elaborate.

He’s visited Arizona a few times, irrc. So he knows guns and the common man (though I don’t think he has much to say about Dusty Rhodes, sadly).
   1171. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 26, 2018 at 09:52 AM (#5679941)
Don't Worry About That Diet Soda Habit: Artificial Sweeteners Are Harmless, Say Scientists:

Is there a cheat sheet available for when we’re allowed to listen to scientists and when we’re supposed to call their results fake?
   1172. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 10:31 AM (#5679943)
I haven't seen anybody who thinks the court got the law wrong. But just because it is lawful, does not make this sentence just (i.e. "based on what is morally right and fair"). A law that puts a 15 year old in jail until he is 80, for unarmed burglary of a house, is ridiculously unjust. Whether one of his accomplices got shot by police or not.
One can argue that the sentence is too long, particularly since no innocent people were hurt, but one can't blithely claim that it was an "unarmed burglary" of a house. If a gang of criminals conspire to commit a dangerous felony and only some of them are armed, that doesn't make it an unarmed crime; it makes it an armed crime in which some of the criminals are carrying weapons. Now, maybe the 15-year old didn't even know his friend was armed, which would be a mitigating factor. But given that several of his compatriots were armed, that makes it less likely that Smith didn't know. (And this was not a group of harmless kids who unfortunately made a decision to commit a crime; the surviving ones are now going on trial for other violent crimes, including murder. So... I suspect he knew.)



EDIT: Moreover, while it's agreed that Smith never fired a gun, let's not be so quick to say he was unarmed. I know the original article posted here made that claim, but this local news story says differently:
While Smith wasn’t old enough for a driver’s license, he admitted to the investigator that he purchased a semi-automatic handgun off the street for $250.

During the recorded interview, Smith went into great detail about the stolen vehicle, how the defendants came to Millbrook to ‘hit some licks’, or burglarize houses, how they obtained entry into the houses and what they were taking. Brosius said Smith’s information that day was consistent with their investigation.

The video showed Brosius telling Smith if he had not been armed, he would already be home - not at the police department. Brosius also explained Smith would be charged for A’Donte Washington’s death.
You have to be very careful of news coverage -- many articles mistakenly say that he was convinced as an accomplice, which is false. Felony murder is a different concept than accomplice liability -- but I haven't seen any news coverage, as opposed to commentary, calling him unarmed.
   1173. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 26, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5679954)
@bradmossesq:
Let me get this straight. The President staffed his campaign with 2 indicted tax frauds/money launderers (one pled guilty already), an agent of a foreign power (Page), and an unregistered foreign agent (Flynn), among other things.

And the scandal is that the FBI was concerned?
   1174. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 26, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5679955)
@toddharrisondc:
I watched this portion of @realDonaldTrump's speech at the Naval Academy today, and can't let it go. In just 2 minutes he makes at least 6 factual errors. Watch the clip and then read the rest of this thread: http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4731522/factual-errors …

Error #1: The $700B defense budget for FY18 is not the largest ever. It was larger under the Obama administration: $710B in FY11 and $714B in FY10. And that's without adjusting for inflation!

Error #2: The number of ships in the Navy today is not the smallest since the end of WWI. We have 283 ships today, and in 2007 (Bush administration) we had 279.

Error #3: The Navy will not get to 355 ships "very soon." The Navy's 30-year plan says it will not get to that level until after 2050, but it could possibly be accelerated to the 2030s. Either way, it's not very soon.

Error #4: Getting to 355 ships is not an increase of "a couple of hundred" ships. Here's the math: 355 - 283 = 72

Error #5: The 355-ship fleet has not yet been "approved." The ships have not all been authorized yet, and Congress appropriates the money one year at a time.

Error #6: This year's military pay raise is not the first in ten years. There were pay raises in each of the past ten years, & some were higher than this year's raise.
FY09: 3.9%
FY10: 3.4%
FY11: 1.4%
FY12: 1.6%
FY13: 1.7%
FY14: 1.0%
FY15: 1.0%
FY16: 1.3%
FY17: 2.1%
FY18: 2.4%


Normal stuff
   1175. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 26, 2018 at 11:54 AM (#5679956)
And a college roommate is in D.C. for the weekend with his family. Sent my friends and I a pic, while entering one of the museums, of a guy with, among other ink, a tattoo of WHITE on one arm and a tattoo of PRIDE on the other. Super cool how guys like that feel comfy being out and about.
   1176. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 11:59 AM (#5679958)
   1177. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:26 PM (#5679963)
It's fun to see some posters backing up their feelings with anecdotal gun stories that they wouldn't entertain for 2 seconds if they were Obamacare anecdotes, or immigration anecdotes.
   1178. Chicago Joe Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5679964)
He's the guy who once peed on a hooker's face and into her mouth, according to this book.


Skimming the reviews: "I bought it because I wanted to see what the hookers said about Glenn Frey and Don Henley. It was interesting."
   1179. Howie Menckel Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5679965)
I wonder if this one has legs.

basically, after the tweet below, there was a lot of pushback from reporters on the call on Twitter saying that every single one of them knows which official they were talking to. also published is the official email alerting reporters to the call beforehand. finally, one reporter with 270K followers has identified the staffer - on the premise that he found out the identity in the course of reporting; he was not on the call and therefore was not bound by the "not for attribution" promise

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

The Failing @nytimes quotes “a senior White House official,” who doesn’t exist, as saying “even if the meeting were reinstated, holding it on June 12 would be impossible, given the lack of time and the amount of planning needed.” WRONG AGAIN! Use real people, not phony sources.
   1180. greenback slays lewks Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5679967)
I wonder if this one has legs.

Nobody cares about these weird logistical issues except journalists. I get why they care, but all this highlights for the rest of us is the weird games that go on politics. In this particular instance, why the hell won't the senior official go on the record for what was apparently a structured briefing of a press pool? And why do journalists feel compelled to publicize "background" comments, knowing that Trump might tweet something contradictory an hour later?
   1181. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5679968)
And it won't have legs because nothing matters and no one cares. Earlier this year, President Deals flipped out about reports his legal team would be dumped or quit and, naturally, within weeks or months, they were gone.
   1182. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:47 PM (#5679969)
So he knows guns and the common man (though I don’t think he has much to say about Dusty Rhodes, sadly).


But you sure can beat his meat.
   1183. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5679970)
This is pretty standard felony murder. It's completely just
I think the felony murder rule is completely just -- including when applied here.
Now, I can't speak to the 35 year sentence, which seems extremely excessive particularly given that the defendant was 15 at the time of the crime. But I don't know the specifics involved (the facts or the local law and sentencing guidelines) to be able to judge.


Those are the quotes that make you an immoral monster. You are welcome. The fact that you think that whether or not this is a just sentence, depends on the local law and sentencing guidelines, really says it all. That is not a moral stance. The sentence may be lawful, nobody is disputing that. Slavery was once lawful, doesn't mean it was just. The overly harsh "war on drugs" sentencing guidelines are also lawful and unjust. Civil asset forfeiture is in many places lawful and unjust.
I haven't seen anybody who thinks the court got the law wrong. But just because it is lawful, does not make this sentence just (i.e. "based on what is morally right and fair"). A law that puts a 15 year old in jail until he is 80, for unarmed burglary of a house, is ridiculously unjust. Whether one of his accomplices got shot by police or not.


I said the sentence seems extremely excessive. But continue to try to malign me anyway if you will. Perhaps you have nothing better to do. At any rate a felony-murder conviction doesn't turn on whether he was "unarmed" -- even assuming that's true. Again, you don't understand concepts.
   1184. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: May 26, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5679971)
BTW, sorry for your loss. Dakota was a very handsome fella.

Thanks man. He was a great dog and I will miss him. It has been quite a day, first the dog then the whole afternoon with the eldest boy in the ER. (The boy survived nicely, unlike the dog).


My condolences as well. Not a good stretch of May for animals, I guess -- my eldest cat (only 7 & a couple of months), Bucky, died a week ago Friday in my passenger seat while I was speeding like a maniac to get him to the 24-hour vet; the day before, I'd taken him to my own vet, where he was sent home with a diagnosis of nothing more serious than a skin infection. *sigh*

Then Monday or so one of the feral females I'd been unable to catch abandoned her 5-kitten litter at around the 3-week mark. One died outside, but the other 4 I tried to bottle-feed to keep alive till I could get them to the vet the next day (Wednesday). Three died overnight, one the following morning at the vet's. The vet told me that the mother had to have abandoned them to begin with because they were sick, & that under the bsest-case scenario they probably wouldn't have survived a year.

Dammit all to hell.
   1185. Lassus Posted: May 26, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5679974)
Sorry to hear about your cats, gef. I suggest adopting four or five to ease your troubles.
   1186. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: May 26, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5679977)
Sorry to hear about your cats, gef. I suggest adopting four or five to ease your troubles.


Which would bring my feline household up to a mere 11 or 12. Sad thing is, 3 of the ferals (from the aforementioned mother's two previous litters) are friendly enough to probably be brought inside ...
   1187. Lassus Posted: May 26, 2018 at 01:24 PM (#5679978)
I know, right?

Batshit Trollbait equalizations are batshit trollbait.
   1188. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 26, 2018 at 01:31 PM (#5679979)
Cain’s not batshit. He beat Brock Lesnar!
   1189. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 26, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5679983)
I wonder if this one has legs.


With whom? Rational people? No; of course not. We knew he was lying as soon as he tweeted it. He was making a statement. He was either ignorantly misinformed (at best), or lying. This is the case when either his virtual or real lips are moving.

Now his base? Of course they'll eat this up. They're trolls, idiots, and whores. And obviously, this is meant for them. Give Jason a couple of weeks and he'll find a "footnote" by which to defend his swallowing of this one too.
   1190. greenback slays lewks Posted: May 26, 2018 at 01:47 PM (#5679985)
Give Jason a couple of weeks and he'll find a "footnote" by which to defend his swallowing of this one too.

No, I'm sure he can find something on /pol this weekend. They're probably digging through the Wikileaks database for a Juanabout as we speak.
   1191. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 26, 2018 at 01:49 PM (#5679986)
The fact that you think that whether or not this is a just sentence, depends on the local law and sentencing guidelines, really says it all. That is not a moral stance.

Ray and others defending the Felony Murder Rule were pretty clear that the appropriateness of the actual sentence depends on factors not addressed in the excerpt posted here. So those here harping on the sentence in this one case are being disingenuous. You can have an excessive sentence for just about any crime, depending on the circumstances, but that doesn't mean we need to repeal the laws against those crimes, just do a better job at sentencing. That this is also true for those convicted under the Felony Murder Rule isn't grounds for doing away with the Rule.
   1192. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 26, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5679988)
“We don’t know who the good guy is versus the bad guy if everybody starts shooting.”


If they're not wearing hats, just look at their skin. It's more or less a 1 for 1 stand in for the "good guy with a gun" crowd.
   1193. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 26, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5679989)
No, I'm sure he can find something on /pol this weekend. They're probably digging through the Wikileaks database for a Juanabout as we speak.


Fair enough.
   1194. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 26, 2018 at 02:03 PM (#5679993)
I'm surprised he doesn't just quote all of Trump's tweets verbatim and eliminate the middlemen, but I guess he's got his Daily Quota of Daily Callers to fulfill.


He's not clever enough to spin the Trump bullshit directly. He has to go to his preferred middle-ware provider for that particular Partisan Bullshit as a Service (PBaaS.) It's the modern way, after all. It's in the cloud.
   1195. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 26, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5679997)
Ireland has voted to overturn its abortion ban by a 2-1 margin.
   1196. Shredder Posted: May 26, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5679998)
I'm interested in learning more about bourbon whiskey. To date, I've been infrequently selecting bottles on a whim without knowing anything about the broad spectrum of tastes. Would someone give me a list of 4-5 brands that could serve as " sampler" of different tastes, regardless of cost?

Clapper has decided these topics belong in OT-Pop Culture. So there's more space for his lies over here, I guess.
First of all, Clapper can go #### himself. Second, I've started on the same path with Bourbon. So far, of the bottles I've finished, I'd rank them thusly:

1) Woodford (the regular stuff)
2) Larceny (I tend to like sweeter, so a wheated bourbon suits me)
3) Buffalo Trace
4) Evan William BIB White Label
5) Four Roses Single Barrel (though apparently this can vary)
6) Knob Creek
7) Hudson Baby Bourbon (worth a taste, but I wouldn't buy a bottle)

Haven't really gone super premium yet. Wouldn't mind getting a really nice bottle to keep on hand for guests. Some of the others here can give better advice than me, but those are all nicely priced. Also got a bottle of Knob Creek Rye, which I've enjoyed alongside the Larceny, but still prefer the sweet to the spicy.
   1197. DJS vs. The White Knights Posted: May 26, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5679999)
Sorry to hear about the spate of furry-friend departures. Back in April, Pandora, my second-oldest cat of three was breathing heavily and they found aggressive lung cancer and I had to have her put to sleep because they were unable to clear the fluid buildup enough to be able to ever send her home again. I'm told it wouldn't have made a difference, but I still feel guilty I didn't see it a few weeks before, I hadn't thought anything of it because all three of the cats had a cold that was going around. My oldest cat, Galileo (19) is only really starting to act normal now; Pandora was his buddy and she followed him around for all of her 17 years. The dumb tux cat, Mercutio, didn't even notice anything was different.

A couple weeks ago, the opportunity to adopt a one-year-old that needed a home, so I took it. Galileo's cool with the new cat (Cassiopeia). The tux cat is only up to the point of being afraid rather than abject terror.
   1198. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: May 26, 2018 at 02:27 PM (#5680001)
Ray and others defending the Felony Murder Rule were pretty clear that the appropriateness of the actual sentence depends on factors not addressed in the excerpt posted here. So those here harping on the sentence in this one case are being disingenuous. You can have an excessive sentence for just about any crime, depending on the circumstances, but that doesn't mean we need to repeal the laws against those crimes, just do a better job at sentencing. That this is also true for those convicted under the Felony Murder Rule isn't grounds for doing away with the Rule.


Setting aside the felony murder discussion for a moment, 35 years for burglary? How can that be a just punishment? If there were any aggravating circumstances that justify such a sentence, they should have been named charges to be tried on. I cannot imagine a burglary in and of itself that would justify 35 years. Murderers don't get that. Rapists don't get that. Now toss in the felony murder. This guy got 65 years for burglary and having one of his accomplices shot by the police. The drunk who killed Nick Adenhart and fled the scene got 51 years.

51 years for 3 counts for second degree murder, 2 counts of DUI and causing great bodily injury, and 1 count of felony hit and run.

65 years for burglary and having your partner shot by the cops.
   1199. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 26, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5680014)
Setting aside the felony murder discussion for a moment, 35 years for burglary? How can that be a just punishment? If there were any aggravating circumstances that justify such a sentence, they should have been named charges to be tried on. I cannot imagine a burglary in and of itself that would justify 35 years.

There is a lot we don't know here, but the sentencing judge did. Based on what David turned up in #1172, it appears that this wasn't just an opportunistic residential burglary taking advantage of an unlocked door, but a well-armed criminal group participating in a premeditated plan in which they were prepared to use deadly force against anyone attempting to stop them. We don't know if the perpetrator had a prior record, but if he got a break previously it wouldn't be surprising that he didn't get another one. We also don't know if he testified at trial or introduced any mitigating circumstances at sentencing. A defendant who takes the stand and lies repeatedly is likely to get a longer sentence. A defendant who shows some signs of remorse is likely to do somewhat better, but for all we know, this particular perpetrator might have told the cops that they were lucky he didn't have a gun or things would have been different (although as David notes, it doesn't seem clear that he was unarmed). Finally, we don't know anything about the parole system in that state. If prisoners normally get out after two-thirds (or less) of their sentence on good behavior, it looks a little different. Those willing to pass judgment on the sentence without knowing all the underlying circumstances aren't more moral, they're just convinced that their own knee jerk responses are always right.
   1200. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 26, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5680015)
If there were any aggravating circumstances that justify such a sentence, they should have been named charges to be tried on.


I'm just skimming this one, but my guess is that the aggravating circumstance is that a cop showed up. At that point, all of the normal idea of "burglary" or even "armed burglary" go out the window and the prosecutorial system goes into protect-a-cop-at-all-costs mode.
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