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Monday, May 21, 2018

OTP 2018 May 21: President takes British royalty to a baseball game, May 15, 1991

The 65-year-old queen, dressed in a below-the-knee blue and red dress, black gloves and three strands of pearls, entered the Orioles dugout along the third base line. She formed a receiving line with her husband and the president, clad in a navy blazer, and Barbara Bush. The first lady wore a blue and white floral print dress.

While the VIP guests took their positions designated by their names on 3-by-5 cards, the song “Brown-Eyed Girl” played over the stadium’s public-address system. Their images appeared on the video screen in right-center field.

“I’ve been playing baseball for 10 years, and I’m used to a normal atmosphere,” said Cal Ripken Jr., the Orioles shortstop, after exchanging handshakes. “This is a lot different. There’s a lot of excitement.”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 21, 2018 at 07:42 AM | 1375 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: baltimore orioles, oakland athletics, off topic, politics, polyamorous wood

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   901. Lassus Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5679129)
flip
   902. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5679130)
Andy's insistence on taking his political cues from The Onion continues to amaze.


OK, smart guy.

Here's a quiz on Trump tweets and not-Trump tweets.

Tell everyone your score.
   903. Shredder Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5679131)
It’s not too late now to be outraged by felony murder (at least as applied to accomplices being killed). The fact that people who were unfamiliar with the concept found it appalling is a sign that something is amiss. “This is what the law has been for a long time, therefore you can’t complain” is a bad take.
I wouldn't say I'm outraged by it. I think the doctrine is basically "You didn't intend to kill this person, but you committed a crime that was so inherently dangerous that you should have foreseen death as a potential outcome, and because you went through with it anyway, and someone died as a result, we're charging you with that person's murder." I'm fine with that in theory. But in the aforementioned case, it's being perverted. The idea was to protect people who weren't party to the crime. Again, in this case, presumably the dead guy could be charged with murdering himself.
   904. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5679133)
i got 7 out of 10.
   905. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5679134)
Tell everyone your score.


Come one, he will get a perfect score. You know he follows Trump on Twitter and memorizes the words of the leader of the GOP.
   906. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5679136)
The Felony Murder Rule is as old as the hills, so it's a bit late to be outraged.

It is never too late to be outraged at an injustice. That is how societies progress. Otherwise, we would still be keeping slaves, and keeping wives as property. Though I realize of course, those things would be a plus for you.

I haven't seen anyone articulate a rationale for repealing the Felony Murder Rule. It's society's way of saying some crimes, e.g. armed robbery, are so disfavored and so dangerous, that those participating in those crimes are going to be held responsible for the consequences, including one's criminal accomplices being killed by the police, as in the original example. If someone wants to run on the "Repeal Felony Murder" platform, have at it, but the law has been around forever without any serious effort to change it most places, AFAIK. As noted previously, whether the sentence in the original example was appropriate depends on factors not addressed in the excerpt, but the Felony Murder Rule itself just punishes people for the foreseeable consequences of participating in extremely dangerous criminal activities.
   907. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5679137)
The Pension Kid is feisty today over...the felony murder rule?
   908. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5679138)
@christinawilkie:
New: Emails Roger Stone did not turn over to congressional investigators obtained by @WSJ. "Please ask Assange for any State or [Hillary Clinton] e-mail from August 10 to August 30--particularly on August 20, 2011," reads one message.
   909. Traderdave Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5679139)
8/10
   910. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5679141)
The Felony Murder Rule is as old as the hills, so it's a bit late to be outraged.

Tell it to your president, as today he pardoned Jack Johnson for a crime that was as old as the hills when he was convicted of it.

Defending the Felony Murder Rule is a lot easier than defending the rather selective Mann Act prosecutions of that era.
   911. Lassus Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:24 PM (#5679142)
"Please ask Assange for any State or [Hillary Clinton] e-mail from August 10 to August 30--particularly on August 20, 2011," reads one message.

Errrrr.... what's the bracket usage for?
   912. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5679144)
The issue is what type of scumbag person hurls such an epithet at another, *particularly* when the topic under discussion *wasn't* Israel?


I've addressed this, but you ignore the reasoning, because you're dumb.

I take it as a personal affront when a member of the tribe goes off the reservation RE: Trump. Even Edgar Bergen Nieporent has the decency not to support Trump just because Trump has one position that may be of narrow interest to him.
   913. Shredder Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5679146)
Errrrr.... what's the bracket usage for?
Geez, Mr. Lazybones. You could have clicked on through to the WSJ piece.
In a Sept. 18, 2016, message, Mr. Stone urged an acquaintance who knew Mr. Assange to ask the WikiLeaks founder for emails related to Mrs. Clinton’s alleged role in disrupting a purported Libyan peace deal in 2011 when she was secretary of state, referring to her by her initials.

“Please ask Assange for any State or HRC e-mail from August 10 to August 30--particularly on August 20, 2011,” Mr. Stone wrote to Randy Credico, a New York radio personality who had interviewed Mr. Assange several weeks earlier. Mr. Stone, a longtime confidant of Mr. Trump, had no formal role in his campaign at the time.
   914. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5679147)
Mel Mouse, #883:
Don't tell Ray, because those pesky scientists and their science are at it again ... Carbon dioxide (CO2) levels this century will alter the protein, micronutrients, and vitamin content of rice grains with potential health consequences for the poorest rice-dependent countries


The real takeaway here is: even more good news for soybeans!
   915. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:38 PM (#5679150)
New: Emails Roger Stone did not turn over to congressional investigators obtained by @WSJ. "Please ask Assange for any State or [Hillary Clinton] e-mail from August 10 to August 30--particularly on August 20, 2011," reads one message.


I'm sure it's all just a misunderstanding.

He probably turned them over to Devin Nunes, Trump's then-attorney, and John Kelly and figured it was the same thing.
   916. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:42 PM (#5679151)
New: Emails Roger Stone did not turn over to congressional investigators obtained by @WSJ. "Please ask Assange for any State or [Hillary Clinton] e-mail from August 10 to August 30--particularly on August 20, 2011," reads one message.


If the story's not up on Drudge Report, it can't be very important. Or at least not as important as a change of venue for the upcoming record-breaking attempt at the world's biggest orgy, someone's prediction that humans will marry robots in 25 years' time, or "Still smoking: Tommy Chong views life at 80."
   917. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5679152)
I hope that little ####### #### Julian Assange gets what's coming to him.
   918. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5679153)
GOP Congressman Garrett announced that he was running for re-election, not quitting.


And so, like a game of "Card Sharks," the board remains frozen at 33 to 9.
   919. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5679154)
someone's prediction that humans will marry robots in 25 years' time


And if Trump lives to 95 - he'll be marrying the unmolded silicon.
   920. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 24, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5679155)
And lest anybody think the House's "investigation" was anything but a political smokescreen:

A lawyer for Mr. Stone, Grant Smith, said the emails hadn’t been turned over to House investigators because they were “not encompassed within the scope of the committee’s request.” Mr. Stone said the emails were preserved at the request of the Senate, which is also conducting a Russian interference probe, but Mr. Smith said they hadn’t yet been turned over to investigators there.


Great investigating!
   921. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: May 24, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5679163)
I haven't seen anyone articulate a rationale for repealing the Felony Murder Rule
You're joking, right? Agree with it or not, there are reams of scholarship on this issue.
   922. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 24, 2018 at 05:20 PM (#5679164)
I hope that little ####### #### Julian Assange gets what's coming to him.

Julian Assange would qualify for a machine that gassed him, electrocuted him, and fed him to a school of piranhas, all in the time it takes a relief pitcher to walk in from the bullpen.
   923. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5679165)
A lawyer for Mr. Stone, Grant Smith, said the emails hadn’t been turned over to House investigators because they were “not encompassed within the scope of the committee’s request.” Mr. Stone said the emails were preserved at the request of the Senate, which is also conducting a Russian interference probe, but Mr. Smith said they hadn’t yet been turned over to investigators there.


I have obtained a copy of the original request from Nunes and the House Republicans:

Dear Mr. Stone

Can you pretty, pretty please send me that one e-mail forward with the cat playing a keyboard? It helps me relax while I hunt the real colluders!

Thanks!

Devin Nunes
Donald J Trump Legal Defense Team/occasional Congressman
   924. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5679166)
Tell it to your president, as today he pardoned Jack Johnson for a crime that was as old as the hills when he was convicted of it.


Jack Johnson was an awful person.
   925. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 24, 2018 at 05:25 PM (#5679169)
Jack Johnson was an awful person.


He never should've written that play.
   926. BDC Posted: May 24, 2018 at 05:27 PM (#5679170)
I have no problem with felony murder as a crime. The obvious problem in the cited case is that the killing itself was justifiable.

Another Reductio ad absurdum to add to Shredder’s: could we charge al-Qaeda prisoners with murdering Osama bin Laden?
   927. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: May 24, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5679181)
Julian Assange would qualify for a machine that gassed him, electrocuted him, and fed him to a school of piranhas, all in the time it takes a relief pitcher to walk in from the bullpen.


Walk. Not jog. And walk slowly.

If Trump can call for jailing journalists, we should be able to ignore "cruel and unusual" in certain situations, slippery slope be damned.
   928. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 05:45 PM (#5679182)
Stone, suggesting that Credico was serving as an informant for Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe, also appeared to threaten Credico with a lawsuit, according to emails viewed by the Journal.

“Everyone says u are wearing a wire for Mueller,” Stone said in an April 8 email.

“Run your mouth = get sued,” Stone told Credico two days later.
   929. Lassus Posted: May 24, 2018 at 06:00 PM (#5679187)
Geez, Mr. Lazybones. You could have clicked on through to the WSJ piece.

Well, the WSJ is blocked for me, but I admit not considering it was just "HRC".
   930. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 24, 2018 at 06:41 PM (#5679202)
Jack Johnson was an awful person.

I hate that song "Banana Pancakes" and "Upside Down" too but awful person is a bit strong.
   931. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 06:49 PM (#5679207)
Nothing on earth is scarier to city bicyclists than electric cars, which are enormous bullets of death that you can't hear at all.
Thanks for your input, Gilfoyle.
   932. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 06:58 PM (#5679210)
I am going to give props to Trump (or at least the Trump team) to stopping the meeting. Of course, he created the whole fiasco to begin with due to his ignorance of the situation, but he didn't go through with it. These things can get "go fever".

That letter is a joke of course. No Ivy league person could have every written that.
My guess is that Bolton more than anyone else deserves the props.

Credit should be given too for bringing home the hostages without any sign of paying a ransom -- unlike Obama or Reagan.

There were two glaring problems: (1) A one-on-one meeting elevated Kim's standing. (2) Pretty much nothing had been agreed upon beforehand.

For a "summit" to be successful -- and most are not -- it should merely formalize what the two leaders have already agreed upon.
   933. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:02 PM (#5679212)

Credit should be given too for bringing home the hostages without any sign of paying a ransom -- unlike Obama or Reagan.

There were two glaring problems: (1) A one-on-one meeting elevated Kim's standing


Juan, everybody.
   934. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:02 PM (#5679213)
The Reporter Who Took Down a Unicorn:
This time, Holmes was trying to get Murdoch to squash a devastating story on Theranos, soon to be published in The Wall Street Journal by reporter John Carreyrou. According to Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup, Carreyrou’s chronicle of how his coverage exposed Theranos as a fraud and destroyed its $1o billion valuation, Holmes told Murdoch that she hoped he would “offer to kill it.”

Three floors below, Carreyrou was sitting at his desk in the Journal’s office. For months, Carreyrou had been trying to get an interview with Holmes, seemingly coming close but never quite succeeding. He didn’t know it at the time, but now she was just an elevator’s ride away. “This was going to be her last tool to kill the story,” Carreyrou told me. “And given how much she had to hide, that appeal to Murdoch was her last weapon.”

Murdoch refused, for the second time, Holmes’s request to interfere, telling her he trusted the Journal editors to make the best decisions. Just over a year later, Murdoch sold back his $125 million investment for one dollar and took, according to Carreyrou, a massive tax write-off.

Several people who have worked at Murdoch papers have told me that he isn’t above interceding in editorial matters, but in this case, despite his personal interest, he didn’t. A source who has known Murdoch for years explained it, “He’s a newsman — and a good story is a good story no matter what or who the story is about.” ...

Theranos’s tactics went well beyond lying and into surveillance and intimidation. In early 2016, Carreyrou was lunching with a relative of Holmes who would become a source. An hour after they parted ways, the relative received an email from Holmes’s mother offering thanks for continued support. The relative immediately called Carreyrou, saying that that Holmes’s mother never emailed them. The relative believed that Carreyrou was under surveillance; Carreyrou replied he couldn’t be sure.

If he was, it wouldn’t be surprising. Carreyrou calls three former Theranos employees who were his primary sources “heroes” — Tyler Shultz, the grandson of Theranos board member George Shultz, Erika Cheung, and a former Theranos lab director whom he calls Alan Beam. All three faced repercussions; they were followed by private investigators and threatened with litigation and ruin. But it was Shultz who got the harshest treatment.

Shortly after a meeting between Carreyrou and Tyler Shultz on Stanford’s campus, in May 2016, Shultz’s lawyers heard from Theranos’s lawyers that they knew about the meeting. As Carreyrou writes in Bad Blood, “I now suspected Theranos had had both of us under continuous surveillance for a year. And, more than likely, Erika Cheung and Alan Beam too.”

After Tyler Shultz resigned in early 2014, Holmes called his grandfather and, as Shultz’s mother frantically described the message to Tyler, told George that if his grandson insisted on “carrying out your vendetta,” he would lose. In a now-infamous confrontation, George Shultz invited Tyler over to his home to try to convince him to keep things quiet. (One source close to Shultz told me that they were astounded that a man who as secretary of State had gone up against the Soviets was so easily deceived.) After Tyler said he would consider signing a document stating that he would maintain his commitment to confidentiality, George told him, “Good, there are two Theranos lawyers upstairs; can I go get them?”

The lawyers, who were from David Boies’s firm Boies Schiller, tried to pressure Tyler into signing the document; he declined, but the next day came close to signing an affidavit admitting that he had made a mistake by speaking to Carreyrou. A Boies Schiller source told me that the firm mishandled their interactions with Shultz: “In retrospect, given his age and given the fact that he didn’t have a lawyer there — while there wasn’t any legal obligation, I think under all the circumstances, he should have been treated more gently than he was.” The source added that at the time Boies Schiller was being told by Theranos that Shultz was “revealing trade secrets.” As Shultz later told Carreyrou, “Fraud isn’t a trade secret.”

David Boies, who is famous for, among other things, representing Al Gore during the 2000 election recount battle, was initially hired by Theranos to determine whether the lab industry’s two dominant players, Quest Diagnostics and Laboratory Corporation of America, were attempting to undermine the company. For this Boies received 300,000 Theranos shares; later he advised the company on a wide range of matters and joined the board of directors. Heather King, a partner at Boies Schiller, left the firm to join Theranos as its general counsel.

The clash between Boies Schiller and Carreyrou came to a head during a June 2015 meeting at the Journal, before Holmes made her plea to Murdoch in September. Boies and King brought along Peter Fritsch, a former Journal reporter turned opposition researcher, in addition to four other lawyers. Since leaving the Journal, Fritsch had co-founded the opposition-research firm Fusion GPS, which put together the now-infamous Christopher Steele Trump-Russia dossier. A Boies Schiller source said that Fritsch was retained because they thought he could “speak to [Carreyrou and his editor] with credibility.”

In the book, Carreyrou says both King and Boies himself were inappropriately aggressive (a Boies Schiller source denies this claim), and a few days after the meeting Boies threatened in a letter to sue the Journal if it moved forward with the story. Carreyrou told me it was a “a very stressful time. I knew that they were working hard on intimidating sources and turning sources, and making people recant.” He described Boies Schiller’s actions as “beyond the pale.”
Read the whole thing.
   935. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:20 PM (#5679218)
Deep thought...

Does the world need a wikiwikileaks to shine the sunlight on collusion between wikileaks and Trump cronies?
   936. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:31 PM (#5679219)
Speaking of shining sunlight on supposed collusion, here's another conspiracy theory...

That dude who's leaning back? Ambassador Downer.
   937. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:36 PM (#5679220)
Zonk's favorite reporter:
Follow along: Papadopoulos got Hillary emails from Mifsud so Carter Page had to go to Moscow for Paul Manafort so that Roger Stone could ask Randy Credico to ask Assange for Hillary's State Department emails
Point is, if people think collusion happened, they should have settled on a theory of the case by now, 16 months after collusion allegations started getting thrown around (thanks to dossier)
   938. tshipman Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:37 PM (#5679221)
Oh my god, two people who run in similar circles were spotted on video in the same place.

HOW DEEP DOES IT GO?????
   939. Lassus Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:37 PM (#5679222)
Callback to page one!

Is that Ambassador's name really Downer? Because that is hilarious.
   940. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:38 PM (#5679223)
More deep thoughts...

When a ratfucker gets indicted and has a choice of turning rat or being ######, is he rat ######? A ###### rat? A ###### ratfacker?
   941. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:39 PM (#5679224)
And JPod's equally impressed:
So the story is Roger Stone asked an internet chat-show host to get in touch with Wikileaks to see if they had any emails from Hillary about Libya but the host didn't ask and was annoyed by Stone asking him.

Not much of a story.
Not to worry, zonk. You just keep on keepin' on, k?
   942. Lassus Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:40 PM (#5679226)
Point is, if people think collusion happened, they should have settled on a theory of the case by now

- This comment is brought to you by Dick Wolf -
   943. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:56 PM (#5679231)
Hey Jason, you #####, does the tone of the email indicate a one off to you here? Because to my non ##### ass it seems to imply that this was a routine ask for Stone. Like, he had asked before, ya know?
   944. tshipman Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:57 PM (#5679233)
Point is, if people think collusion happened, they should have settled on a theory of the case by now


I'm pretty sure Mueller does have a theory of the case.

Why do people on the right keep pushing this meme that the publicly available information is all the information there is?
   945. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 07:59 PM (#5679234)
Et tu, G-d?
US film star Morgan Freeman has apologised following allegations of sexual misconduct made by eight women and several other people.

One production assistant accused Freeman of harassing her for months during filming of bank robbery comedy Going in Style, CNN reported.

She said the 80-year-old touched her repeatedly, tried to lift her skirt and asked if she was wearing underwear.

Freeman apologised to "anyone who felt uncomfortable or disrespected".

"Anyone who knows me or has worked with me knows I am not someone who would intentionally offend or knowingly make anyone feel uneasy," he said in a statement.
   946. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:01 PM (#5679235)
Why do people on the right keep pushing this meme that the publicly available information is all the information there is?
Wait, what? Look who's talking. It's you and your pals who keep flinging around theories like they're strands of undercooked pasta.
   947. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:10 PM (#5679237)
Oh my god, two people who run in similar circles were spotted on video in the same place.

HOW DEEP DOES IT GO?????


Now, now.

To be fair, can you imagine if Trump were in the same place as a known pedophile... or better yet, got a picture taken with him with a big ####-eating grin on his face... or even better yet, that Trump's going rate for such stuff is about 50K more he pays for sex (sorry, silence after sex)?... Or even better still, this same pedophile was a business partner with the only other client of Trump's attorney?

Imagine what people would say.

People like Jason.

With principles.

And sincerity.
   948. tshipman Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:10 PM (#5679238)
Wait, what? Look who's talking. It's you and your pals who keep flinging around theories like they're strands of undercooked pasta.


No lefties on this board have advocated for anything other than waiting for the Mueller report.

It's the right that keeps saying that it should already be over.
   949. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:13 PM (#5679239)
They need a solid unifying foundation like (((Soros))) or HILLARY DID IT.
   950. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:20 PM (#5679241)
I haven't seen anyone articulate a rationale for repealing the Felony Murder Rule. It's society's way of saying some crimes, e.g. armed robbery, are so disfavored and so dangerous, that those participating in those crimes are going to be held responsible for the consequences, including one's criminal accomplices being killed by the police, as in the original example. If someone wants to run on the "Repeal Felony Murder" platform, have at it, but the law has been around forever without any serious effort to change it most places, AFAIK. As noted previously, whether the sentence in the original example was appropriate depends on factors not addressed in the excerpt, but the Felony Murder Rule itself just punishes people for the foreseeable consequences of participating in extremely dangerous criminal activities.
My perspective is that it's one thing if a cop had been killed and a murder charge was slapped on this unarmed accomplice but another when it was his buddy who got gunned down. In other words, a bad guy paid the ultimate price, which seems like more of a deterrent than a long prison term.
   951. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:21 PM (#5679242)
To be fair, can you imagine if Trump were in the same place as a known pedophile... or better yet, got a picture taken with him with a big ####-eating grin on his face... or even better yet, that Trump's going rate for such stuff is about 50K more he pays for sex (sorry, silence after sex)?... Or even better still, this same pedophile was a business partner with the only other client of Trump's attorney?

Imagine what people would say.

People like Jason.

With principles.

And sincerity


I imagine they would say something about Obama.
   952. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:22 PM (#5679243)
No lefties on this board have advocated for anything other than waiting for the Mueller report.
Ha! Look at the posts from anywhere from 40 minutes to four hours ago. Some of your pals are looking to pounce on the Stone story as evidence of Trump campaign collusion.
   953. JJ1986 Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:22 PM (#5679244)
Is 'pals' a common term among the conspiracy-theory set?
   954. tshipman Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:24 PM (#5679247)
Ha! Look at the posts from anywhere from 40 minutes to four hours ago. Some of your pals are looking to pounce on the Stone story as evidence of Trump campaign collusion.


Yes, and?

Someone posted the news item. It is further evidence that the Trump campaign was attempting to collude with Russia in 2016. We can add it to the pile. It's not proof that they did collude, or that there was a quid pro quo. That's what we're waiting on.

If those are proven, then it's time to impeach. Until then, we wait.
   955. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:28 PM (#5679249)
I told all you pals that our case needed footnotes. FOOTNOTES, I said!
   956. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:30 PM (#5679251)
Not sure if this item got posted earlier...

This Week:
"Congratulations," Pres. Trump tells Sylvester Stallone, former heavyweight boxer Lennox Lewis, and more as he signs pardon of Jack Johnson in the Oval Office.

"You all fought very, very hard to get this done, so it's my honor to do it. It's about time."
Anyone know why this didn't happen years ago?
   957. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:33 PM (#5679253)
Yes, and?

Someone posted the news item. It is further evidence that the Trump campaign was attempting to collude with Russia in 2016. We can add it to the pile. It's not proof that they did collude, or that there was a quid pro quo. That's what we're waiting on.

If those are proven, then it's time to impeach. Until then, we wait.
So yes and no? Kind of like spy and no spy? Kind of like Page, no wait, Papadopoulos?

LMAO, shippie. Don't ever change.
   958. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:39 PM (#5679255)
I haven't seen anyone articulate a rationale for repealing the Felony Murder Rule

You're joking, right? Agree with it or not, there are reams of scholarship on this issue.

The reference was to in this thread, where there was lots of whining that appeared to be people mostly working back from the sentence in one case rather than addressing the rationale for the Felony Murder Rule itself.
   959. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 08:55 PM (#5679258)
The reference was to in this thread, where there was lots of whining that appeared to be people mostly working back from the sentence in one case rather than addressing the rationale for the Felony Murder Rule itself.


So.... you object to people making too big a deal regarding the conduct of law enforcement/prosecution and then wrapping that instance into a broader point about principle, huh?

Interesting.

Does this objection hold in other circumstances? Or does it have limited application?
   960. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5679260)

Josh Gerstein

@joshgerstein

UPDATE: WH says Kelly and Flood did not attend the substantive portion of the briefings today at DOJ & Hill on informant & Trump campaign. They made 'brief remarks' about POTUS's desire for transparency. Then left meetings.
2:55 PM - May 24, 2018


Uh-huh.

In other news, Tom Hagen and Luca Brasi did not attend the "substantive" portion of the meeting with the local shopkeep about how terrible it would be if anything happened to his storefront. They made 'brief remarks' about Don Corleone's desire for neighborhood safety. Then left the meeting.
   961. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:09 PM (#5679261)
“THIS IS RICO 101”: WHY ROBERT MUELLER ISN’T TAKING RUDY’S BAIT

Said a former FBI official: “This investigation is classic Mueller: he is doing a classic, organized crime case. This is RICO 101, working your way up and sideways. You pop a few guys for gambling, and no one is going to do a million years for gambling, but you’re gonna get their scratch pads, then you move on to their associates. You flip one guy who you arrest with no fanfare. It’s exactly what Mueller has been doing his whole ####### life. It’s just that this time the boss of the family happens to be the leader of the free world. Mueller doesn’t care if he gets Trump. He doesn’t care if he doesn’t get Trump. He has no political agenda. He is digging through the layers and bringing back the truth, and the truth is going to be whatever it is going to be.”


The whole article is pretty interesting
   962. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5679265)
Said a former FBI official:
Name's Homey?
   963. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:17 PM (#5679266)
Before Trump, there was Mayor BdB:
De Blasio quite upset with media coverage after he hit the gym when a firefighter was shot & there was an active police standoff w shooter. He sounds like he is at war with the press.
   964. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:22 PM (#5679270)
Peter Hasson:
Kasich for America fundraising off a Jennifer Rubin column about a John Kasich speech, in case you were wondering what the first few months of 2020 will look like
Does everyone here agree that, should Kasich ultimately run as an indy, Trump is pretty much guaranteed re-election?
   965. Lassus Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:25 PM (#5679273)
He sounds like he is at war with the press.

Compelling Twitter evidence, as always.
   966. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:31 PM (#5679278)
Does everyone here agree that, should Kasich ultimately run as an indy, Trump is pretty much guaranteed re-election?


So lemme get this straight...

YOU actually think your party rank and file is THAT pathetic, ridiculous, and under the thrall of a ridiculous clown that they'd stick with the blustering moron rather than a mainstay of the conservative revolution of the 90s who is completing a successful second term of what has always been a key Republican state?

Remember how I keep questioning your character?

I, the DEMOCRAT, would like to think that honest, principled conservatives would be glad that they had the option. It's truly a sign of the Trump times that I actually give your party and your (should we start saying alleged, at this point?) fellow travelers more credit that you do.

Personally, I think someone forgets that Trump got 44% of the vote. His opponent got 46%. I'm pretty sure the Democrats keep at least that 46% and it's Trump whose at risk of losing some of his 44%... and EC or no EC, someone who got 3 million fewer votes than possibly the only politician less popular than him cannot afford to lose many.
   967. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: May 24, 2018 at 09:55 PM (#5679295)
Awesome.

I assume most folks are familiar with Pete Souza's virtual redefinition of the word "shade" on Instagram - he's got new book coming out this fall.

The folks at Little, Brown apparently have taken a peek at Souza’s IG account because the publisher has a deal with the shutterbug to release a book of photos contrasting presidents numbers 44 and 45, titled “Shade: A Tale of Two Presidents.”


Pre-orders available!

I actually hope it's a more of a coffee table book collecting the best of his shade - there have been some great ones.

Painting a whole Wall.

Pretty sure he wasn’t slandering someone on Twitter.

Back when the word “funneling” was used during science experiments, not when a president’s attorney was describing money transactions.

Learning how to spy in 2009 with help from Katie Johnson.
   968. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5679308)
Does everyone here agree that, should Kasich ultimately run as an indy, Trump is pretty much guaranteed re-election?


Just like when John Anderson guaranteed Jimmy Carter's election by splitting the vote away from Reagan.
   969. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:04 PM (#5679309)
#953:
Is 'pals' a common term among the conspiracy-theory set?


I consider myself more of an ilk.
   970. Kiko Sakata Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5679322)
Does everyone here agree that, should Kasich ultimately run as an indy, Trump is pretty much guaranteed re-election?


I don't see how that follows at all. Kasich would take votes from the middle and the right. Which are the votes that Trump got in 2016. Trump's win was something of a fluke. It reminds me of the 1987 Minnesota Twins' World Series championship - the '87 Twins had a negative run differential but managed to win 85 games which managed to be enough to win a very weak division and then they kind of lucked into two short-series wins. Even if Trump does exactly as well as in 2016 I'm not sure he's the favorite in 2020 (see, e.g., the 1988 Twins - they improved their run differential by 107, won 6 more games, and finished 13 games behind the Oakland A's; or, alternately, see Mitt Romney in 2012, when he got the exact same national vote percentage as Trump and more votes than Trump in Wisconsin but lost both Wisconsin and the Electoral College).
   971. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:15 PM (#5679329)
The whole article is pretty interesting


It was, thanks. I haven't checked the VF coverage in a while. They do a good job. They've always had great reporting and online you don't even have to flip through 40 adds per article, just 3-4.

Does everyone here agree that, should Kasich ultimately run as an indy, Trump is pretty much guaranteed re-election?


if your erection lasts longer than 4 hours, see Mike "Electric" Pence.
   972. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:35 PM (#5679337)
Does everyone here agree that, should Kasich ultimately run as an indy, Trump is pretty much guaranteed re-election?

So would you vote for Kasich over Trump, if you lived in a swing state?

But to answer your question, all Kasich's entering the race would say to me would be that Putin had switched sides and wanted to elect the Democrat. Kasich would do about as well as one of those "Third Way" fantasy parties that pop up in some columnists' imaginations every 4 years.

   973. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5679338)
Kasich for America fundraising off a Jennifer Rubin column about a John Kasich speech, in case you were wondering what the first few months of 2020 will look like

Kasich has been fundraising continuously since the 2016 campaign. He appears to have bought everyone's mailing list, getting my e-mail although I wasn't a 2016 contributor of his. He gives every appearance of gearing up for another run, but he may have concluded beating Trump in the GOP primaries is unlikely, and seems to be edging toward a run as an independent. I don't think he'd make a totally Quixotic run, but he'll have to decide early, when things may be rather murky.
   974. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:47 PM (#5679347)
Does everyone here agree that, should Kasich ultimately run as an indy, Trump is pretty much guaranteed re-election?

Just like when John Anderson guaranteed Jimmy Carter's election by splitting the vote away from Reagan.

Reagan won in a landslide, so your reference seems to support Jason's point, although I think it's far too early to assess how a credible independent candidacy might affect the 2020 race.
   975. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:48 PM (#5679348)


I’d be really interested in some perspective from you guys on this case, and the analysis in the article.

Do You Have to Kill to Be a Murderer?

LaKeith Smith was 15 when, in February 2015, he and several friends burgled two homes in Millbrook, Alabama. When police arrived, some of Smith’s friends, including 16-year-old A’Donte Washington, engaged in gunfire with the police officers, and one of the officers shot and killed Washington. Now Smith has been charged and convicted of Washington’s murder even though Smith himself did not participate in the shootout (he did not even have a gun). In April 2018 a judge sentenced him to 30 years in prison for Washington’s death, plus an additional 35 years for two counts of theft and one count of burglary.
[...]
Maybe it is understandable that, in the face of a tragedy such as this, the prosecutor, jurors and judge should want to hold someone responsible. Washington couldn’t be made to pay for what happened, and the police officer was found to have been justified in the shooting. So perhaps Smith and his other accomplices in the burglaries were just the nearest available candidates. But despite the desire to hold someone responsible whenever a tragedy happens, we should only punish people for what they have actually done, not for crimes that others committed as a consequence (even a foreseeable consequence) of their actions. Treating people as ends in themselves, rather than as mere means, requires at least this much.


This is pretty standard felony murder. It's completely just (*), meant to discourage people from -- and punish them for -- engaging in crimes that are inherently dangerous. Such as armed robbery, wherein it's utterly foreseeable that someone could be seriously injured or killed.

(*) I'll set aside the issue of the defendant being a minor. I'm not up on the laws allowing minors to be tried as adults.
   976. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:53 PM (#5679351)
Two days into the national story and none of our Very Serious Civil Libertarians concerned for Paul Manaforts interrupted sleep have a peep to add about Sterling Brown?
   977. BDC Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:55 PM (#5679355)
It’s been pretty consistent in the primary era: a candidate who’d been seriously challenged from the far wing of his/her own party has trouble in the general election. Serious challengers rarely arise from the center - Gary Hart in ‘84, maybe? though he didn’t last long.

It’s a little paradoxical: you’d think the far wing would have nowhere else to go. But the challenge is a symptom of tepid support from the base. Support for Jimmy Carter on the left was very tepid - in many ways Anderson challenged Carter from the left, though not as far left as Ted Kennedy.

Kasich wouldn’t outflank Trump on the right. It would be hard to do that without running an actual Nazi. If Kasich runs as an independent, he’ll be a centrist perforce and would drain as much support from the D candidate as from Trump.

   978. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5679356)
There are those who think Nancy Pelosi clinging to non-power with her gnarled old crone hands represents the bloodiest battle in Washington. And that any minor bumps or fraggings in progress on the GOP House party train aren't even worth discussing.

Then there's Fox News, which just falsely deleted Paul Ryan from their "Gang of 8" graphic. Hello, Gowdy!

Swapping out a photo and chyroning a replacement name is a pretty involved "whoopsie-daisy" mistake. Even more than the last fifteen times Fox inadvertently mislabelled a Republican in legal trouble as a "(D)." Surely Ryan becoming a Fox unperson tells us nothing.
   979. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 24, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5679358)
Prosecuting a buddy for a cop shooting his friend is just the system. No worries. It didn’t interrupt any Manhattan based lawyers morning routines or anything.
   980. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:00 PM (#5679363)
Late to comment on #712, but I agree with several here that if you feel you need to charge someone with murder in such a case, your penalties for accessory to assault with intent to kill a cop are probably not strong enough. Oblique punishment is not IMO a good idea.


Mmmm... not sure "accessory to assault with intent to kill a cop" is a real crime, rather than legal-sounding word salad. For one thing, they didn't set out to kill a cop or to shoot at a cop; they set out to rob a house.

You're badly confusing concepts.
   981. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:03 PM (#5679366)
Reagan won in a landslide, so your reference seems to support Jason's point


You should read my comment again. Or not. Whichever.
   982. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:03 PM (#5679368)
Prosecuting a buddy for a cop shooting his friend is


...completely made-up "facts" by Sam.
   983. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:06 PM (#5679369)
It’s been pretty consistent in the primary era: a candidate who’d been seriously challenged from the far wing of his/her own party has trouble in the general election. Serious challengers rarely arise from the center - Gary Hart in ‘84, maybe? though he didn’t last long.

It’s a little paradoxical: you’d think the far wing would have nowhere else to go. But the challenge is a symptom of tepid support from the base. Support for Jimmy Carter on the left was very tepid - in many ways Anderson challenged Carter from the left, though not as far left as Ted Kennedy.

Kasich wouldn’t outflank Trump on the right. It would be hard to do that without running an actual Nazi. If Kasich runs as an independent, he’ll be a centrist perforce and would drain as much support from the D candidate as from Trump.
Kasich was a fiscal conservative in the 90s but now he's little more than a moderate Republican with little support beyond his home state. And unless the topic has to do with the federal budget, he comes across as little more serious than Gary Johnson.

If Kasich runs as an independent, he'll probably attract as many Democrat votes as Republican, considering how far left the former party's POTUS candidates will tack.
   984. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:10 PM (#5679371)
So would you vote for Kasich over Trump, if you lived in a swing state?
Probably not.
   985. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:15 PM (#5679374)
Capitol Police Accidentally Gave Evidence To House Hacking Suspect’s Defense Attorney:
The House IG said Democratic IT aides made unauthorized access to data, but prosecutors haven’t charged them

Democrats appear to want to keep the case out of court; a trial could expose their reckless IT practices

Capitol Police didn’t make arrests despite numerous red flags and then ‘inadvertently’ gave evidence to defense attorneys that was supposed to go to prosecutors

Prosecutors appear to be sharing info with someone on Capitol Hill who is leaking details to the hacking suspect’s lawyer
How incredibly fortunate for Awan. Admittedly, however, the Capitol Hill Police top brass ain't exactly the brightest lot. Hanlon's Razor may also apply.
   986. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5679375)
I'm fine with that in theory. But in the aforementioned case, it's being perverted. The idea was to protect people who weren't party to the crime. Again, in this case, presumably the dead guy could be charged with murdering himself.


The idea was to punish for foreseeable loss of life.
   987. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:16 PM (#5679376)
So would you vote for Kasich over Trump, if you lived in a swing state?

Probably not.


Motherfucker of Mercy, you really are deep in the swamp.
   988. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:17 PM (#5679377)
I have no problem with felony murder as a crime. The obvious problem in the cited case is that the killing itself was justifiable.


That has nothing to do with the issue.

   989. Stormy JE Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:21 PM (#5679378)
############ of Mercy, you really are deep in the swamp.
1. Trump hasn't been as awful as I had feared. And Bannon's ouster was a yuge sigh of relief.

2. I like Kasich less now than I did when he cost Cruz valuable resources/airtime/votes during the stretch run.

3. He's a little like McMullin -- competitive in one state, useless everywhere else.
   990. Shredder Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:23 PM (#5679379)
It reminds me of the 1987 Minnesota Twins' World Series championship - the '87 Twins had a negative run differential but managed to win 85 games which managed to be enough to win a very weak division and then they kind of lucked into two short-series wins.
Did Trump have someone turning on air conditioners behind him at opportune times as well?
   991. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5679381)
. . . felony murder. It's completely just

I guess that settles it.

The doctrine actually doesn't exist in 4 states, so not everyone thinks it's completely just. I'm also fairly sure that some jurisdictions don't count the death of a co-perpetrator as an element.

Also, I don't think foreseeability is strictly an speaking element in some states. Certainly people have been prosecuted for felony murder for shoplifting and breaking and entering (when they thought no one was there), and in many cases when none of the perpetrators were armed.


   992. Lassus Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:27 PM (#5679384)
1. Trump hasn't been as awful as I had feared.

Heh.
   993. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:30 PM (#5679390)
From RCP::

Turley: Trump Was Correct When He Said Campaign Was Under Surveillance, "Legitimate Objection"

"I think what is being a case of willful blindness here is that we have confirmation that Trump was apparently correct when he said over a year ago that he had people in his campaign that were under surveillance and it turns out it was much broader than we thought. Even though people like [Former DNI James] Clapper and others in the Obama administration denied it, it does appear to be a surveillance program," Turley said on Monday's Tucker Carlson Tonight.

...

"For those people who are objecting, what are you objecting to?" Turley asked. "This is a serious matter. No matter who you feel about Trump, we need to find out the truth about this. If there was an investigation of an imposing political party, if there was an asset that tried to become an advisor on a campaign, those are all serious matters for all of us. And I think that Trump is right but he went about it in the wrong way. He has a legitimate objection here that we should know the truth and facts."

....

These are very serious allegations and they are unprecedented. We don't know what the truth is. Maybe there was a valid reason for the investigation, maybe they used valid means. But we should want to know.
   994. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:32 PM (#5679392)
And:

"I'm mystified by the response from the media. I think it is undeniable that the president's early allegations have been validated to a large extent. I think you can acknowledge that without necessarily saying this was done for the wrong purpose," Turley said. "I also don't understand why there isn't more concern here. The investigation may find there was a valid reason to investigate. Clearly [Carter] Page was under investigation long before the campaign, but we've always been critical of other countries where governments put their opponents under investigation. There's a legitimate reason here for us to be concerned and I think the president has raised that."

"The president was openly mocked for this allegation. People like Clapper said it simply wasn't true. I think that the media has to recognize this is a serious allegation," he continued. "All Americans regardless of their party should want to investigate this."
   995. Ray (CTL) Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:37 PM (#5679400)
More Turley:

Justice Delayed Is Justice: Mueller Fights To Delay Russian Collusion Trial
May 24, 2018 jonathanturley

...[Mueller] has asked federal Judge Dabney L. Friedrich to deny a speedy trial motion and delay any trial of 13 Russians and three Russian companies for efforts to influence the 2016 election. The effort reflects problems in Mueller’s matinee case, including the allegation that he has charged a company that did not exist at the time of the alleged offenses.

...

One of the Russian companies — Concord Management and Consulting — entered the U.S., hired American lawyers, and demanded a speedy trial. ...

Mueller continuance motion — available here — cited the complexity of the case and the voluminous record as the basis for the delay. He argues that “This case . . . warrants a continuance and exclusion of time to accommodate the voluminous discovery at issue and to allow sufficient time for the Court to resolve certain outstanding procedural issues unique to discovery in this case.” ...

The speed of the defense, particularly Eric A. Dubelier, a partner with Reed Smith, seems to have take Mueller’s people by some surprise. The defense is demanding to see evidence which Mueller has been keeping closely held in his office. It could be the first serious disclosure of the cards in Mueller’s hand for defendants and potential targets. Thus far the defense is doing an excellent job in setting Mueller’s team back on its heels.

...The danger for Mueller is that, if he is unwilling to show the evidence or go to trial, he could face the embarrassing prospect of pulling the indictment. Conversely, if he is not ready, his matinee case could prove a flop in whole or in part with acquittals or hung juries.


   996. tshipman Posted: May 24, 2018 at 11:56 PM (#5679413)
That Turley argument is dumb. Was Hillary Clinton's campaign under surveillance? No. The candidate was under investigation by the FBI.

Similarly: was Trump's campaign under surveillance? No. The FBI was conducting a counter-intelligence investigation because members of his campaign were alarmingly open to committing felonies with geopolitical rivals.
   997. greenback slays lewks Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:02 AM (#5679414)
Two days into the national story and none of our Very Serious Civil Libertarians concerned for Paul Manaforts interrupted sleep have a peep to add about Sterling Brown?

The video itself is surreal. Brown and the cops spent 5-6 minutes hanging out while half the Milwaukee police force showed up. Aside from the cops fishing for obvious drugs in the car, the whole thing was kinda casual for a while there. At least it's as casual as a 2AM encounter between a young black man and half a city's police force can be. And then one cop goes into Dick Butkus mode, and there's a mosh pit on top of Brown.

I've come around to the idea that most cops shouldn't carry guns. I mean, in the current environment, where everybody else has guns, then whatever. But if I'm named Fuehrer tomorrow, then the generic cop loses his guns like everybody else. They're just not responsible enough, and there's little hope that accountability will be instilled from the grass roots.
   998. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:20 AM (#5679418)
The FBI was conducting a counter-intelligence investigation because members of his campaign were alarmingly open to committing felonies with geopolitical rivals.
"Alarmingly open to committing felonies?" What felonies were Page and Papadopoulos so clearly anxious to commit, thereby allowing an intel community led by one party to infiltrate the campaign of another?
   999. Stormy JE Posted: May 25, 2018 at 12:40 AM (#5679419)
Sean Davis:
Andrew McCabe Spent $70,000 On A Table. The FBI Hid It From Congress.

Tom Bevan:
Geez, you can get two HUD dining room sets for that price.
   1000. Howie Menckel Posted: May 25, 2018 at 01:00 AM (#5679422)
I don't follow the Russia Russia stuff very closely, but I will reiterate that the only legit criticism I know of about Turley - a liberal - in the last 20 years is that he is a shameless self-promoter.

that said, I respect his legal reasoning in general. if he has now "turned" and just become a contrarian - well, it took him a long time to do so. we'll see
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