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Tuesday, May 29, 2018

OTP 2018 May 28: Don’t turn down WH invitation: Former Nats manager on Powerhouse Politics podcast

“Baseball is not about politics, it’s just about going out and enjoying the game,” Johnson says of his experience managing a team in the nation’s capital in comparison with managing teams elsewhere, such as the New York Mets, Cincinnati Reds and the Philadelphia Phillies.

Games at Nationals Park in Washington, D.C., are often a “who’s who” of the political world, including Supreme Court justices, leading Democratic and Republican congressional leaders and high-profile media figures. Johnson says when they come to the game, they put aside politics.

“You don’t think about politics you just think about baseball,” Johnson says about the unifying nature of professional baseball in the nation’s capital.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 29, 2018 at 07:50 AM | 1257 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, old man yells at cloud, politics

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   101. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5681546)

Borowitz is a New Yorker humor writer whose talent pretty much begins and ends with writing headlines. It also doesn't help that the New Yorker feels it necessary to label his columns "Satire", although these days with Trump it's admittedly hard to tell satire from reality.

At least a half dozen people on my social media feeds have mistakenly posted Borowitz headlines as facts over the last couple of years, so I think that "Satire" label is needed.
   102. Lassus Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:18 PM (#5681550)
They'll have some explaining to do if they pick it up.

They can't get what they want till they know what they want.
   103. strong silence Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:18 PM (#5681551)
Jess,
Thanks for that article. I enjoy Gladwell, especially his podcast. http://revisionisthistory.com/about/

If a group dynamic is at play with school shootings, then what is the solution?

Opposing riots and shootings, it seems acts of kindness, generosity and compassion follow the same dynamic that Gladwell describes. From my own life, this is true.

Returning to finish the article...
   104. BrianBrianson Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:20 PM (#5681556)
Meh - I don't want to see people getting fired for what they do when they're not at work. But it's tougher when you're a celebrity, and kinda always at work.

Is the Roseanne reboot any good? Obviously, the original show was great (modulo the last season). But I haven't felt motivated to look (maybe because like anything that's been copied to death, the appeal is no longer so obvious).
   105. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5681557)

What do you call someone trying to discuss things with an insane person?


"Half of OTP"?
   106. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5681558)
"Joe Jackson"?

"Steppin' Out" is a piece of crap for which he should have been flogged, certainly, but even so.
   107. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5681570)
Andy Borowitz is to the Onion as Mark Russell is to Tom Lehrer.


Love Tom Lehrer so much, I almost wish he was active* to comment on this "era" ... then I realize I'm glad he's not, just like Hunter Thompson ('68 Era Thompson, sure, but not what he was at the end).

Good friend of mine took a math class ("Math for Tenors") from Lehrer at UC Santa Cruz. He was a theatre geek and knew who Lehrer was, he grew up listening to his parents play the records, he said he never quite got over being star struck.

* I first wrote "alive", but then I wiki'd and he's still with us. He retired from UCSC in 2001.
   108. strong silence Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5681572)
Following on my post at 103, here is Gladwelll's answer to my question:

In the day of Eric Harris, we could try to console ourselves with the thought that there was nothing we could do, that no law or intervention or restrictions on guns could make a difference in the face of someone so evil. But the riot has now engulfed the boys who were once content to play with chemistry sets in the basement. The problem is not that there is an endless supply of deeply disturbed young men who are willing to contemplate horrific acts. It’s worse. It’s that young men no longer need to be deeply disturbed to contemplate horrific acts.
   109. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5681574)
How long before Fox picks up "Roseanne". Lord knows, they could use a hit show.

EDIT, okay so not a hit. I did not realize the ratings had collapsed.


I don't think her ratings collapsed. They were certainly down from the first week. Kind of expected.

Roseanne's meteoric return to TV wrapped its first season Tuesday night, again dominating the rest of the dial for ABC.

The ninth and final episode of the series' 10th season averaged a 2.4 rating among adults 18-49 and 10.3 million viewers, in line with how it had performed with night-of viewers in recent weeks — if off a shade for a season low. And while that score in the key demo was enough for it to emerge as the top program of the night, NBC took an overall win with the finale of The Voice.
   110. BDC Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5681581)
Rulers of Europe for the past 2400+ years, in animated form.

This is one of the most mesmerizing things I've ever watched. It must have taken an insane amount of time to produce.

I can quibble with a few items. The Holy Roman Empire seems over-represented: it takes up a lot of space on the map during eras when it was pretty notional.

Also, it's slightly off, once you get into the era of democratic monarchies, to have some countries (the UK, Spain, Benelux, Scandinavia) showing kings/queens while the republics show prime ministers.

But I love effects like the metronomic change of consuls (two per year) in Rome, the death-watch hanging-on of the Byzantine Empire, and the mushrooming of Napoleon and Hitler.
   111. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5681584)
ABC has now canceled Barr's TV show

cue people on Twitter claiming her "First Amendment rights were violated" in 3-2-1.....
I could care less about Roseanne's fate -- obviously, this isn't a 1A issue -- but it's pretty funny that the network which employs Joy Behar and *just* hired Olbermann quickly cancels her show for making an obscene remark.
   112. Blastin Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5681585)
Please tell me when Behar and Olbermann compared black people to apes.

   113. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5681586)
In the day of Eric Harris, we could try to console ourselves with the thought that there was nothing we could do, that no law or intervention or restrictions on guns could make a difference in the face of someone so evil. But the riot has now engulfed the boys who were once content to play with chemistry sets in the basement. The problem is not that there is an endless supply of deeply disturbed young men who are willing to contemplate horrific acts. It’s worse. It’s that young men no longer need to be deeply disturbed to contemplate horrific acts.


There's a lot of unpack in his claim here, but this particular part seems pretty easy to refute. To my knowledge, none these young men were particularly ambitious or talented -- not the type to be playing with a chemistry set as boys. These boys see themselves as dead ends, not PHDs or even college types.

Why they see themselves this way is vastly more complicated but I'd argue social media has played a large part.

I could care less about Roseanne's fate -- obviously, this isn't a 1A issue -- but it's pretty funny that the network which employs Joy Behar and *just* hired Olbermann quickly cancels her show for making an obscene remark.


Right, you totally don't care!
   114. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5681589)
I could care less about Roseanne's fate -- obviously, this isn't a 1A issue -- but it's pretty funny that the network which employs Joy Behar and *just* hired Olbermann quickly cancels her show for making an obscene remark.
Obscene?
   115. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5681590)
Please tell me when Behar and Olbermann compared black people to apes.


It's a weak Juanabout, even he'd admit.
   116. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5681594)
Obscene?


Duh.

Roseanne was talking about Valerie Jarrett's conception and birth... as in, "OB/Gyn". And referenced a movie - hence, 'scene'.

So it was just OBscene.
   117. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5681597)
Please tell me when Behar and Olbermann compared black people to apes.
What Roseanne said was disgusting and a fireable offense but she was describing one person, Valerie Jarrett, not an entire race.

Among other things, Behar called Mike Pence's Christianity a "mental illness."

Olbermann regularly called Trump a Nazi and repeatedly cursed out Republican politicos. ESPN shitcanned Schilling for a hellva lot less.
   118. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5681598)
Obscene?
Obscene. As in disgusting.
   119. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5681600)
What Roseanne said was disgusting and a fireable offense but she was describing one person, Valerie Jarett, not an entire race.


One person whose lineage is half ape!

How can that be racist?
   120. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5681602)
Obscene?


Do you remember when Andy Dufresne was escaping from Shawshank and to do so broke into a sewer pipe and crawled through literal ####### excrement for a couple of hundred yards for his freedom?

He still ended up covered in less #### than Jason is wearing from the last few days of posts ...
   121. strong silence Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5681603)
Gladwell isn't using chemistry sets as a proxy for intellectual ability or ambition. I think it's a simple marker of a child's curiosity, which evetually gets misdirected, by means of the threshold hypothesis, into a curiosity of deadly weapons.

How does social media contribute to low self-image or feelings of hopelessness? Genuine question.
   122. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:04 PM (#5681604)
How can that be racist?
I said above it was a fireable offense and didn't say it wasn't racist. The problem is you guys have this annoying habit of attempting to drive up the outrage meter. When it's already a 7, you make it a 10. (To be sure, when it's a 2, you also make it a 10.)
   123. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5681605)
One person whose lineage is half ape!

How can that be racist?


It's not surprising that Juan doesn't see the racism there. He has blinders on unless our people are targets of racism or bigotry. Such a snowflake.


edit...oh, oh, I see my mistake! It wasn't THAT racist. Only a 7 out of ten. Or a two. It's unclear.
   124. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5681606)
How long until we Juanabout Bill Maher - https://twitter.com/jaredlholt/status/1001547933827915776
   125. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5681609)
He still ended up covered in less #### than Jason is wearing from the last few days of posts ...
Yeah, remember the photos that you and your pals went apeshit over -- until learning the photos were plainly from 2014 and 2016?
   126. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5681610)
What Roseanne said was disgusting and a fireable offense but she was describing one person, Valerie Jarrett, not an entire race.
That's like saying, "I only said that this one Jew kills Christian babies to make matzoh; I didn't say it about all Jews." When you employ one of the classic racist (anti-semitic) tropes, you can't claim you were only talking about one person.
Among other things, Behar called Mike Pence's Christianity a "mental illness."
She did not say that Christianity was a mental illness; she said that Pence claiming to hear god talking to him was a mental illness. She also apologized directly to Pence, who accepted her apology. And it sounded a lot more sincere than Roseanne's "I shouldn't made that bad joke about how she looks like an ape."
Olbermann regularly called Trump a Nazi and repeatedly cursed out Republican politicos.
And? Right or wrong, that's not one of the vilest of racial slurs.
ESPN shitcanned Schilling for a hellva lot less.
That may be true. On the other hand, Roseanne got hired in the first place (this time around, I mean) after a helluva lot worse. It's not like this came out of the blue for her.
   127. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5681611)
I said above it was a fireable offense and didn't say it wasn't racist. The problem is you guys have this annoying habit of attempting to drive up the outrage meter. When it's a 7, you make it a 10. (To be sure, when it's a 2, you also make it a 10.)


Yeah, that's the problem...
   128. strong silence Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5681612)
JE, someone here, I think that overweight guy in Georgia, name I forget, claimed that your age is 33. Is that true?
   129. Lassus Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5681613)
Wow, Jason.


claimed that your age is 33. Is that true?

No. Jason's around 50. :-D

(It's funny because it's basically true. Jason and I are about the same age, he's maybe a year or less older. The neck-stabber is same generation, only a couple years younger.)
   130. . Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5681614)
ABC made a business decision, Bear. Nothing more, nothing less.


So'd the NFL, so'd the Jim Crow restaurant owners. All violated the spirit of the First Amendment.

Read that closely: Not the letter of the First Amendment, the spirit of the First Amendment.
   131. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5681616)
Yeah, remember the photos that you and your pals went apeshit over


"Apeshit"?

That's obscene and disgusting.
   132. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5681618)
said above it was a fireable offense and didn't say it wasn't racist.
That's true; you did/didn't say those two things. Which causes me to puzzle about what your point really was.
The problem is you guys have this annoying habit of attempting to drive up the outrage meter. When it's a 7, you make it a 10. (To be sure, when it's a 2, you also make it a 10.)
They do do that, yes. But this really isn't an example of that. (I mean, it's not a 10 because Roseanne isn't important enough for her comments to rate a 10; you have to reserve that score for when POTUS or the like says things like that.)
   133. strong silence Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5681619)
FTA,
Much of what is so disturbing about LaDue’s exchanges with Schroeder, in fact, is simply his version of the quintessential A.S.D. symptom of “restricted range of interests.” He’s obsessive. He insists on applying logic and analysis to things that most of us know we aren’t supposed to be logical and analytical about. What should he wear? The standard uniform for school shooters is a duster. But it didn’t make sense to wear a duster to school, LaDue explained, “because that’s a bit suspicious.” He’d store it in his locker. Where should the bombs go? Harris and Klebold had chosen the cafeteria. But LaDue

.
.
.
fireworks. It would have made far more sense to use flash powder and ball bearings, LaDue thought, because “spherical shrapnel” are “superior to nails in damage.” LaDue tells Schroeder that he has two YouTube channels devoted to his work. But anyone who watches the assembled videos expecting to see something macabre will be disappointed. They are home movies of LaDue testing whether tiny fuses will ignite when placed inside a plastic water bottle, or whether he can successfully blow a quarter-size hole in the side of a plastic playground slide. In the world before Columbine, people like LaDue played with chemistry sets in their basements and dreamed of being astronauts.
   134. Lassus Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5681620)
She did not say that Christianity was a mental illness; she said that Pence claiming to hear god talking to him was a mental illness.

Practicing or not, she grew up Roman Catholic, and is probably still a Christian at the very least herself.
   135. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5681621)
So'd the NFL, so'd the Jim Crow restaurant owners. All violated the spirit of the First Amendment.


In which Syntax explains how skin pigment is a form of expression...
   136. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5681622)
That's like saying, "I only said that this one Jew kills Christian babies to make matzoh; I didn't say it about all Jews." When you employ one of the classic racist (anti-semitic) tropes, you can't claim you were only talking about one person.
Roseanne's a wack job and uttered a racist comment but does she have a history of making racist comments or acting racist? There was no need to inaccurately describe what she said.
She did not say that Christianity was a mental illness; she said that Pence claiming to hear god talking to him was a mental illness. She also apologized directly to Pence, who accepted her apology. And it sounded a lot more sincere than Roseanne's "I shouldn't made that bad joke about how she looks like an ape."
Incorrect. She plainly called the Christianity Pence practices as a "mental illness."

Behar waited a month to express contrition; Roseanne apologized within hours.
And? Right or wrong, that's not one of the vilest of racial slurs.
LOL. Right or wrong? It makes a mockery of what ESPN/Disney claims to abhor.
That may be true.
No, David. You don't get to knock me for supposedly qualified comments and then brazenly do the same thing -- twice! -- seconds later. LOL.
   137. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5681624)
You don't get to knock me


Syntax would like you to stop stifling the spirit of the 1st amendment...
   138. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5681625)
Yeah, remember the photos that you and your pals went apeshit over -- until learning the photos were plainly from 2014 and 2016?


Huh?

Can anyone translate from Trumpkin here, what "photos" is this about?

I've been mostly over in the OTSoccer, OTCulture and Game threads the last week to ten days or so ...
   139. strong silence Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5681626)
I asked because I'm trying to figure out why he he thinks that there was some fundamental shift in liberalism vs. conservativism during Obama's tenure. It may be that it is some paranoia related to Hillary Clinton.
   140. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5681627)
Not the letter of the First Amendment, the spirit of the First Amendment.


Nonsense. The 1A isn't vague or debatable like the 2A. Even "hate speech" is protected against prosecution, unless in concert with the committing of a crime.
   141. Traderdave Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5681628)
Above the fold on Fox web page now:

ABC was looking for a reason to ax ‘Roseanne,’ Herman Cain says

ABC pulls plug on top-rated hit show hours after comic’s racially charged tweet targeting Obama pal

Disney tumbles as 'Roseanne' canceled, 'Solo' flops



Within hours they will be loudly condemning the cancellation, mark my words.
   142. BDC Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5681631)
Among other things, Behar called Mike Pence's Christianity a "mental illness."

JE, do you have a phonographic memory for every insult ever leveled at a Republican? :)

I looked up the incident. Apparently Behar's offending remarks were

“It’s one thing to talk to Jesus. It’s another thing when Jesus talks to you. That’s called mental illness, if I’m not correct, hearing voices.”


Which may well misrepresent Mike Pence's faith. Behar was responding, after all, to a remark by Omarosa to the effect that Pence goes around believing that Jesus talks to him. I'm not sure that Omarosa qualifies as saner than Mike Pence. Though Pence didn't really correct Behar's theology. He seemed to imply that Jesus does talk to him.

Christianity is a diverse thing, and to some Christians, the idea that the personal Jesus has regular conversations with you does border a bit on the weird. I grew up Catholic, and Jesus did not appear to us after we said our prayers and go over what we were going to do tomorrow. He waited till Sunday and conveyed his views via homilies read by the parish priest :) But sure, some Protestants claim that Jesus gives them regular, explicit political, personal and financial advice, and they deserve tolerance like any other group of believers. Though perhaps not a free pass if they're Vice President of the United States and they have millions of constituents who don't believe in Jesus.

Coke to DMN
   143. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5681632)
Which causes me to puzzle about what your point really was.
Feel free to call it nitpicky, but again, her comment was disgusting and there was no need to inaccurately describe it.
   144. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5681633)
Borowitz is a New Yorker humor writer whose talent pretty much begins and ends with writing headlines. It also doesn't help that the New Yorker feels it necessary to label his columns "Satire", although these days with Trump it's admittedly hard to tell satire from reality.

At least a half dozen people on my social media feeds have mistakenly posted Borowitz headlines as facts over the last couple of years, so I think that "Satire" label is needed.


I dunno, I think without the label it'd be a pretty good test for identifying the humor challenged. ISTM that the labeling kind of defeats the purpose of the parody.
   145. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5681634)
Within hours they will be loudly condemning the cancellation, mark my words.


Lots of very nervous people in the WH right now... Trump may not be able to navigate this cultural touchpoint with his usual care and caution.
   146. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:19 PM (#5681635)
Two Supreme Court decisions today, but not on the major cases everyone is waiting on, just one unanimous decision and another 8-1 case. Thirty cases remain, with decisions likely on every Monday in June.
Meant to comment on this earlier, but for those of you who think this is a conservative court, both decisions were pro-criminal defendant.
   147. . Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5681637)
I'm frankly amazed that her vulgar Star Spangled Banner rant didn't make her permanently persona non grata with all of the major networks. That was a thousand times more disrespectful to the flag than any amount of silent kneeling could possibly be.


It was, but the ridiculous anthem was done in a different era. The devolution from that era to this is precisely what I'm talking about.
   148. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:20 PM (#5681638)
does she have a history of making racist comments or acting racist?


Uh, yes? Lots of it. If she deletes her Twitter, we may not be able to research it, but there are plenty of examples of her racism.
   149. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5681639)
Can anyone translate from Trumpkin here, what "photos" is this about?
So you really haven't been following my comments? LOL.
   150. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5681641)
How does social media contribute to low self-image or feelings of hopelessness? Genuine question.


Exposes kids to a very large, deep pool of people in which they cannot possibly hope to emulate. Not just are they pressured into being the prom king or queen now but they are pressured into being an IG influencer or looking like a Jenner.

Also feeds their delusions about guns, girls, and general disenchantment. The "incel community" is a ####### cesspool and validates their delusions. Most of these kids are just awkward teens but when they find these echo chambers online suddenly they are validated in seeking violent solutions or are otherwise convinced it's "not just a phase" and "it gets better" is a lie.

And of course easy access to guns is the final necessary component for a school shooting.
   151. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5681642)

Roseanne's a wack job and uttered a racist comment but does she have a history of making racist comments or acting racist? There was no need to inaccurately describe what she said.
She has a history of making anti-semitic comments; not sure about racist ones. And just generally nutty conspiracy theory things.
   152. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5681643)
Even MAGA-adjacent pages, like Juan-approved @comfortablysmug, are wondering if the Roseanne fight is really worth it.

Or has Juan taken all the red pills and now thinks 'First, the snowflakes came for Roseanne when she tweeted racist garbage and I did not speak up...' is really a thing.
   153. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:27 PM (#5681645)
I see Trump has a rally scheduled for tonight.

I expect it will go well.
   154. canadian shield Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5681646)
   155. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5681647)
It was, but the ridiculous anthem was done in a different era. The devolution from that era to this is precisely what I'm talking about.


Has someone created a "The Id of Sugar Bear Blanks" equivalent of "The Random Gammons Transaction Generator"*?

* Dammit, what's the actual name?
   156. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5681648)
She has a history of making anti-semitic comments; not sure about racist ones. And just generally nutty conspiracy theory things.
I don't recall the anti-Semitic comments, as she's a Jewish backer of Israel, but do remember her support of the fire-melts-steel conspiracy theory.
   157. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5681649)
Roseanne Barr apologizes to Valerie Jarrett for “ape” tweet. She called Susan Rice the same in 2013


Oh dear.

Maybe it's a 7.5
   158. DavidFoss Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5681650)
So you really haven't been following my comments? LOL.

Photos? Oh, *those* photos!

Over the holiday, some democratic speechwriter who did not make the 90s movie 'Swingers' tweeted out some photos of bad things that border patrol was doing. A bunch of lefties on twitter started retweeting and talking about how bad it was. Then the Daily Caller figured out that the photos were from an Arizona media report in 2014. Obama was president in 2014, not Trump. Righties on twitter spiked the football. Trump tweeted victory. Immigration debate is over. Republicans have won.

This all happened while we were enjoying our holiday. I don't recall major news outlets 'falling for' the original tweet, but JE will correct me if I'm wrong. Conservative media is all over the 'gotcha'.
   159. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:32 PM (#5681651)
The problem is you guys have this annoying habit of attempting to drive up the outrage meter. When it's a 7, you make it a 10. (To be sure, when it's a 2, you also make it a 10.)

They do do that, yes. But this really isn't an example of that. (I mean, it's not a 10 because Roseanne isn't important enough for her comments to rate a 10; you have to reserve that score for when POTUS or the like says things like that.)

Or maybe when POTUS compares our intelligence agencies to Nazis.
   160. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5681653)
Even MAGA-adjacent pages, like Juan-approved @comfortablysmug, are wondering if the Roseanne fight is really worth it.
Snore. Smug isn't even remotely a Trumpkin and remains a Jeb! fan. And again, I don't care about her fate. I didn't watch a single episode of the original show; I didn't watch a single episode of the remake.
   161. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5681654)
I don't recall major news outlets 'falling for' the original tweet, but JE will correct me if I'm wrong.
Actually, the first one to push the 2014 photo as 2018 was a Politico reporter. Among the ones to push this theme was the editor of ABGL's magazine.
   162. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5681655)
Roseanne Barr apologizes to Valerie Jarrett for “ape” tweet. She called Susan Rice the same in 2013
Yeah, that's pretty damn disgusting too. The article doesn't indicate whether she ever apologized for that tweet.
   163. DavidFoss Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5681657)
Actually, the first one to push the 2014 photo as 2018 was a Politico reporter. Among the ones to push this theme was the editor of ABGL's magazine.

I probably shouldn't ask but which reporter? Vogel? And what does any of this have to do with the 'Akhil Bharatiya Gorkha League'? (meaning I have no idea what acronym you are using).
   164. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5681658)
I don't recall the anti-Semitic comments, as she's a Jewish backer of Israel, but do remember her support of the fire-melts-steel conspiracy theory.
She's got Jewish parents, but it's a... bit more complicated than that. To quote from wiki just because that's easiest:
Barr was born in Salt Lake City, to a working-class Jewish family. She is the oldest of four children born to Helen (née Davis), a bookkeeper and cashier, and Jerome Hershel "Jerry" Barr, who[6] worked as a salesman.[7] Her father's family were Jewish emigrants from Russia, and her maternal grandparents were Jewish emigrants from Austria-Hungary and Lithuania, respectively.[6] Her paternal grandfather changed his surname from "Borisofsky" to "Barr" upon entering the United States.[7]

Her Jewish upbringing was influenced by her devoutly Orthodox Jewish maternal grandmother.[7] Barr's parents kept their Jewish heritage secret from their neighbors and were partially involved in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.[7] Barr has stated, "Friday, Saturday, and Sunday morning I was a Jew; Sunday afternoon, Tuesday afternoon, and Wednesday afternoon we were Mormons."[8]

When Barr was three years old, she got Bell's palsy on the left side of her face. Barr said, "[so] my mother called in a rabbi to pray for me, but nothing happened. Then my mother got a Mormon preacher, he prayed, and I was miraculously cured". Years later Barr learned that Bell's palsy was usually temporary and that the Mormon preacher came "exactly at the right time".[7]

At six years old, Barr discovered her first public stage by lecturing at LDS churches around Utah and even was elected president of a Mormon youth group.[7]
She has also called Judaism a cult and ranted on twitter about Jewish brainwashing. Not to mention the Soros stuff.
   165. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5681659)

I probably shouldn't ask but which reporter? Vogel? And what does any of this have to do with the 'Akhil Bharatiya Gorkha League'? (meaning I have no idea what acronym you are using).
Not important; just know that it's the NYT.
   166. Zonk is Just the Right Amount of Wrought Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5681660)
Yeah, that's pretty damn disgusting too. The article doesn't indicate whether she ever apologized for that tweet.


It was a different time.

Comparing black women to gorillas was in vogue back then.... ape comparisons were sort of eye-rolled as elderly claptrap from has-beens.

But now that everything is MAGA again...
   167. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5681663)
Okay, can we all agree that Roseanne is dead and buried as far as any mainstream career is concerned?

Good riddance, and don't let the back door hitcha where the dog should've bitcha.

Here's a much more interesting column by David Brooks that has a lot of truth to it. It begins with an introduction about how we've tried to replace our previous aristocracy of birth with an aristocracy based on merit, only to realize that "merit" isn't always everything it's cracked up to be. I'll pick it up from there:

The Strange Failure of the Educated Elite
A narrative is emerging. It is that the new meritocratic aristocracy has come to look like every other aristocracy. The members of the educated class use their intellectual, financial and social advantages to pass down privilege to their children, creating a hereditary elite that is ever more insulated from the rest of society. We need to build a meritocracy that is true to its values, truly open to all.

I’m among the many who have been telling this story for 20 years. And I enjoy books that fill in compelling details, like Steven Brill’s “Tailspin,” which is being released Tuesday.

But the narrative is insufficient. The real problem with the modern meritocracy can be found in the ideology of meritocracy itself. Meritocracy is a system built on the maximization of individual talent, and that system unwittingly encourages several ruinous beliefs:

Exaggerated faith in intelligence. Today’s educated establishment is still basically selected on the basis of I.Q. High I.Q. correlates with career success but is not the crucial quality required for civic leadership. Many of the great failures of the last 50 years, from Vietnam to Watergate to the financial crisis, were caused by extremely intelligent people who didn’t care about the civic consequences of their actions.

Misplaced faith in autonomy. The meritocracy is based on the metaphor that life is a journey. On graduation days, members for the educated class give their young Dr. Seuss’ “Oh, the Places You’ll Go!” which shows a main character, “you,” who goes on a solitary, unencumbered journey through life toward success. If you build a society upon this metaphor you will wind up with a society high in narcissism and low in social connection. Life is not really an individual journey. Life is more like settling a sequence of villages. You help build a community at home, at work, in your town and then you go off and settle more villages.

Misplaced notion of the self. Instead of seeing the self as the seat of the soul, the meritocracy sees the self as a vessel of human capital, a series of talents to be cultivated and accomplishments to be celebrated. If you base a society on a conception of self that is about achievement, not character, you will wind up with a society that is demoralized; that puts little emphasis on the sorts of moral systems that create harmony within people, harmony between people and harmony between people and their ultimate purpose.

Inability to think institutionally. Previous elites poured themselves into institutions and were pretty good at maintaining existing institutions, like the U.S. Congress, and building new ones, like the postwar global order. The current generation sees institutions as things they pass through on the way to individual success. Some institutions, like Congress and the political parties, have decayed to the point of uselessness, while others, like corporations, lose their generational consciousness and become obsessed with the short term.

Misplaced idolization of diversity. The great achievement of the meritocracy is that it has widened opportunities to those who were formerly oppressed. But diversity is a midpoint, not an endpoint. Just as a mind has to be opened so that it can close on something, an organization has to be diverse so that different perspectives can serve some end. Diversity for its own sake, without a common telos, is infinitely centrifugal, and leads to social fragmentation.

The essential point is this: Those dimwitted, stuck up blue bloods in the old establishment had something we meritocrats lack — a civic consciousness, a sense that we live life embedded in community and nation, that we owe a debt to community and nation and that the essence of the admirable life is community before self.

The meritocracy is here to stay, thank goodness, but we probably need a new ethos to reconfigure it — to redefine how people are seen, how applicants are selected, how social roles are understood and how we narrate a common national purpose.

Now THAT is the voice of real conservatism. If only those who fancy themselves as conservatives would realize it.
   168. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:54 PM (#5681666)
###### this link up ... grrr
   169. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:54 PM (#5681667)
Lassus, #44:
ABC has now canceled Barr's TV show

I had thought this occurred prior to this incident anyhow.



The resurrected "Roseanne" is (was) the biggest hit ABC had landed in some time, at least since "Empire" but perhaps longer. The network had already announced a second season, a day after the first episode's ratings had come in.


MF Charlie, #91:
ABC made a business decision, Bear. Nothing more, nothing less. Rosie's ratings were circling the drain anyway.
Srul, #93:
How long before Fox picks up "Roseanne". Lord knows, they could use a hit show.
EDIT, okay so not a hit. I did not realize the ratings had collapsed.
So ABC is less social warrior, and more corporate entity looking for an excuse to dump a loser.



You may not appreciate how dire network TV ratings have become. "Roseanne" collapsed from being the top-rated show on television in its debut to merely being one of the highest rated shows on television. It finished 3rd for the 2017-18 season, behind "Sunday Night Football" and "This is Us." Its lowest-rated episode, if it were a series average, would have been about 15th (out of 207 programs).

The last episode of "Roseanne"-- and now it looks like it WAS the last episode-- had double the rating of adults 18-49 of any other show that night, and more than double the share. The Hollywood Reporter's headline was "TV Ratings: 'Roseanne' Finale Dips (but Dominates) for ABC."



Brian B, #104:
Is the Roseanne reboot any good? Obviously, the original show was great (modulo the last season). But I haven't felt motivated to look (maybe because like anything that's been copied to death, the appeal is no longer so obvious).


Oh, someone's talking about the actual thing itself? I saw the first two episodes and yeah, they were any good. In fact, they were pretty good. But I didn't stick with it, for no particular reason other than trying to keep up with all watchable TV is like being blasted in the face with a firehose. So I'm part of her ratings slump.



BDC, #87:
Andy Borowitz is to the Onion as Mark Russell is to Tom Lehrer.


You won't see a more dead-on correct analogy this year.
   170. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:55 PM (#5681669)
I probably shouldn't ask but which reporter? Vogel? And what does any of this have to do with the 'Akhil Bharatiya Gorkha League'? (meaning I have no idea what acronym you are using).
Hadas Gold.
   171. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: May 29, 2018 at 04:56 PM (#5681670)
I don't recall the anti-Semitic comments, as she's a Jewish backer of Israel, but do remember her support of the fire-melts-steel conspiracy theory.


She had that thing recently where she posed dressed as Hitler while taking gingerbread cookies out of an oven. I'm not sure what that was all about, with the benefit of the doubt going to "it was parody". Of some sort.

She's racist regarding Palestinians. That's not in dispute.
   172. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:00 PM (#5681672)
Not to mention the Soros stuff.
How funny because, based on her views through 2012, Roseanne seemed a lot like him.
   173. . Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5681674)
She's racist regarding Palestinians. That's not in dispute.


Again the reason that no common ground can be found is that you and yours can't be trusted with what is and isn't "racist."

Not even close, unfortunately.

That's really the ultimate problem here. Not that you and yours can't from time to time stumble into an obvious case like fat pig Rosanne Barr.
   174. Howie Menckel Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5681675)
per the 2014 photo "scandal"

a lot of media and elite types follow each other on Twitter. so whenever any of them with, say, 10,000+ followers screws up, many influencers who like the narrative the tweet suggests retweet it to THEIR followers. if someone with a half-million followers falls into the mire, there's no stopping it for hours.

of course, at that level, someone from the enemy camp may stumble across an accurate tweet that corrects the record. and yes, a touchdown spike ensues.

a lot of journalists like to put "retweets do not equal endorsements" in their Twitter bio, but that doesn't really work. first ensure accuracy before you retweet something like that. heck, even "if these photos are real, this would be an indictment of the Trump administration" is a modest improvement.

the number of reputable journalists who leaped on that photo on Twitter is alarming. and since that 2014 Arizona Republic story was well-documented, one wonders why there was no similar outcry among this same crowd. (yes, part of it is more people on Twitter now, and so forth. but if any rabid right-wingers weren't yet dialed all the way to 11 on "left-wing conspiracy," well, this little incident might get the job done.)
   175. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5681676)

Also feeds their delusions about guns, girls, and general disenchantment. The "incel community" is a ####### cesspool and validates their delusions. Most of these kids are just awkward teens but when they find these echo chambers online suddenly they are validated in seeking violent solutions or are otherwise convinced it's "not just a phase" and "it gets better" is a lie.

Social media also enables bullying in a way that maybe wasn't possible when we were growing up. Anonymous or not, I think people feel comfortable writing things online that they wouldn't say to your face.

I don't think this is worse than being stuffed in lockers and other forms of in-person bullying that happened back when I was growing up, but I can see how it might be more socially alienating.
   176. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5681677)
This is totally normal MSM behavior:
Imagine posting this on the day the top news story is 1500 children ripped from their parents who have no idea when they'll see them again.
She's objecting to a tweet from Ivanka Trump containing a photo of her kissing her two-year old.

Seriously.

EDIT: And of course, CNN then proceeded to play along.
   177. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:11 PM (#5681681)
There's a report that Greitens is about to step down.

Good.
   178. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5681684)

This is totally normal MSM behavior:
The comment was ridiculous, but (a) it's Twitter, and (b) "MSM" is kind of overinflating things, isn't it? She's a writer for Entertainment Weekly, not Cokie Roberts.
   179. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:14 PM (#5681685)
Hadas Gold? No, Santo Gold!
   180. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:15 PM (#5681686)
Zonl, #153. Zonk:
I see Trump has a rally scheduled for tonight.
I expect it will go well.



Comedy is timing.
   181. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5681687)
Social media also enables bullying in a way that maybe wasn't possible when we were growing up. Anonymous or not, I think people feel comfortable writing things online that they wouldn't say to your face.

I don't think this is worse than being stuffed in lockers and other forms of in-person bullying that happened back when I was growing up, but I can see how it might be more socially alienating.
I'm not sure that bullies wouldn't say these things too your face -- but that they don't have to is the key difference. If you avoided Nelson Muntz and pals on the blacktop or in the halls, you could escape it. But now there's no way to avoid it, even if you successfully evade them in IRL.
   182. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:16 PM (#5681688)
JE, #177:
There's a report that Greitens is about to step down.



Sending out thoughts and prayers to Claire McCaskill.
   183. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:17 PM (#5681690)
That's really the ultimate problem here. Not that you and yours can't from time to time stumble into an obvious case like fat pig Rosanne Barr.


Was she racist re: Valerie Jarvis? Was she racist re: Susan Rice?

Yes or no, oh Equivocator.
   184. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5681691)
(b) "MSM" is kind of overinflating things, isn't it? She's a writer for Entertainment Weekly, not Cokie Roberts.
CNN would like a word with you.
   185. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5681692)
And that word is "apple."
   186. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5681693)

Imagine posting this on the day the top news story is 1500 children ripped from their parents who have no idea when they'll see them again.

This is conflating two different stories. I mean, maybe it's 1500 now, but the latest number I saw was ~600 children separated from their parents at the border.

Separately, the Office of Refugee Resettleement "lost track" of 1,500 children who had previously arrived at the border without their parents and had been placed with a family member or other guardian.
   187. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5681695)

I'm not sure that bullies wouldn't say these things too your face -- but that they don't have to is the key difference. If you avoided Nelson Muntz and pals on the blacktop or in the halls, you could escape it. But now there's no way to avoid it, even if you successfully evade them in IRL.

You could keep your Facebook account private -- or simply not have one -- today. But everyone seems to be on there.
   188. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5681697)
CNN would like a word with you.
1) Stop reading Twitchy.
2) CNN in that link cleverly did the Respectable Journalism thing of writing about the fact that there's a controversy rather than formally endorsing it.
   189. Srul Itza Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:32 PM (#5681698)
Now THAT is the voice of real conservatism.


Really? Reads more like pap and crap. Lots of unsupported assertions and claims about how the old blue bloods were motivated by noblesse oblige, god bless them.

   190. zenbitz Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:37 PM (#5681699)
the prison reform


Can someone clarify this for me? What prison reform?
   191. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:38 PM (#5681701)
1) Stop reading Twitchy.
Ha! When they're right, they're right.
2) CNN in that link cleverly did the Respectable Journalism thing of writing about the fact that there's a controversy rather than formally endorsing it.
You just got through saying it was a ludicrous comment. So why is it worth CNN's time?
   192. Stormy JE Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5681702)
Hey, my bad, I nearly forgot to wish everyone a Happy Reprogramming Day.
   193. . Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:44 PM (#5681704)
Was she racist re: Valerie Jarvis? Was she racist re: Susan Rice?

Yes or no, oh Equivocator.


Yes, she was and is a racist.

I've never quibbled with the idea that sometimes the various snipe hunts for racists happen upon actually racist things. But to give the whackjob snipe hunters a harpy veto on free expression? That's quite a different story.

Social media also enables bullying in a way that maybe wasn't possible when we were growing up. Anonymous or not, I think people feel comfortable writing things online that they wouldn't say to your face.


It's an absolute cesspool and getting worse.
   194. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:46 PM (#5681705)
--SBB--, #193:
I've never quibbled with the idea that sometimes the various snipe hunts for racists happen upon actually racist things. But to give the snipe hunters a harpy veto on free expression? That's quite a different story.


Being correct is just a slippery slope to not being correct.
   195. . Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5681706)
Being correct is just a slippery slope to not being correct.


Only for some people. In the case of you and yours, you're merely coincidentally and/or provisionally correct. Routinely.

One doesn't often see stopped clocks virtue signal.
   196. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:51 PM (#5681708)
Snipe hunt! Yes, poor Rosanne was ambushed by people just waiting to pounce on her latest example of human frailty.
   197. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:52 PM (#5681709)
You just got through saying it was a ludicrous comment. So why is it worth CNN's time?
But that's the brilliance of writing about the controversy: it doesn't matter whether the controversy is stupid; it just matters whether it exists. If lots of people are bashing Ivanka for posting the picture, then the fact that they are bashing her becomes newsworthy even if the posting of the picture isn't. (See also Pizzagate or any one of a million other examples.) That's (as I noted) Respectable Journalism 101. (Or maybe 102.)
   198. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:53 PM (#5681710)
Social media also enables bullying in a way that maybe wasn't possible when we were growing up. Anonymous or not, I think people feel comfortable writing things online that they wouldn't say to your face.

It's an absolute cesspool and getting worse.
Also, it's a lot easier to pretend to be a lawyer than in the old days.
   199. BDC Posted: May 29, 2018 at 05:59 PM (#5681712)
You won't see a more dead-on correct analogy this year

Cheers, Gonfalon!
   200. manchestermets Posted: May 29, 2018 at 06:05 PM (#5681713)
Meant to comment on this earlier, but for those of you who think this is a conservative court, both decisions were pro-criminal defendant.


So, anti-government then? :)
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