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Tuesday, May 29, 2018

OTP 2018 May 28: Don’t turn down WH invitation: Former Nats manager on Powerhouse Politics podcast

“Baseball is not about politics, it’s just about going out and enjoying the game,” Johnson says of his experience managing a team in the nation’s capital in comparison with managing teams elsewhere, such as the New York Mets, Cincinnati Reds and the Philadelphia Phillies.

Games at Nationals Park in Washington, D.C., are often a “who’s who” of the political world, including Supreme Court justices, leading Democratic and Republican congressional leaders and high-profile media figures. Johnson says when they come to the game, they put aside politics.

“You don’t think about politics you just think about baseball,” Johnson says about the unifying nature of professional baseball in the nation’s capital.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 29, 2018 at 07:50 AM | 1257 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, old man yells at cloud, politics

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   1101. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 03, 2018 at 02:39 PM (#5684926)
So now you're saying that you'd vote for Trump over Biden, but on what grounds? How has Biden changed since 2016?

As noted above, a candidate Biden will almost certainly have to tack way left. Trump is enacting conservative policies and less off-the-rocker than feared.


Forgetting for a minute your definition of "way left", just how would Biden have been able to avoid that tacking in 2016, when by everyone's account the Democrats adopted the most liberal platform intheir history? Do you think he would've been able to win the Democratic nomination by campaigning to Hillary's right?
   1102. Stormy JE Posted: June 03, 2018 at 02:43 PM (#5684929)
Forgetting for a minute your definition of "way left", just how would Biden have been able to avoid that tacking in 2016, when by everyone's account the Democrats adopted the most liberal platform intheir history? Do you think he would've been able to win the Democratic nomination by campaigning to Hillary's right?
Rest assured, Andy, in two-plus years the most liberal DNC platform in history will not be 2016.

As for the latter question, no, I suspect both Biden and Hillary would've portrayed themselves as liberals.

   1103. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 03, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5684935)
Forgetting for a minute your definition of "way left", just how would Biden have been able to avoid that tacking in 2016, when by everyone's account the Democrats adopted the most liberal platform intheir history? Do you think he would've been able to win the Democratic nomination by campaigning to Hillary's right?

Rest assured, Andy, in two-plus years the most liberal DNC platform in history will not be 2016.


I won't argue with that, just as the 2016 GOP platform will lose its Most Batshit Insane title to its 2020 successor.

As for the latter question, no, I suspect both Biden and Hillary would've portrayed themselves as liberals.

So IOW your idea of an acceptable Democrat in 2016 would've been Biden running on the same platform as Hillary, at that point the most liberal platform in the Dems' history. I'm feeling my cynicism overcoming my skepticism, but I'll just let your comment hang there.
   1104. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 03, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5684940)
All that's interesting, but it still doesn't answer the question of who has inside information about the "subsequent" findings of the Horowitz investigation, and who's been leaking it to those non-Gateway Pundit sources you're implying are The Ones in The Know.

The leaks about the DoJ IG investigations appear to have mostly come from the subjects of the inquiry and the agency leadership. Unlike an indictment that might be held in secret, the subjects of an IG investigation and the agency itself are normally given an opportunity to comment on the "draft" IG report. Thus, you had the McCabe camp & those linked to the FBI leadership trying to get out ahead of the IG report. Those taking the anti-McCabe position appear to be reaching their conclusions based on how folks seem to be squirming about the IG looking into this stuff.
   1105. Stormy JE Posted: June 03, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5684953)
So IOW your idea of an acceptable Democrat in 2016 would've been Biden running on the same platform as Hillary, at that point the most liberal platform in the Dems' history. I'm feeling my cynicism overcoming my skepticism, but I'll just let your comment hang there.
As I explained numerous times between 2013-16, Biden has a long history of collaborating with Republicans and has seemed as honest as lawmakers come. (I was no fan of his daily commutes from Delaware on Amtrak, but that's a total nothingburger compared to the Clinton Foundation.)

While his Bork and Thomas nomination battles and overheated rhetoric on the campaign trail were low points, I very much like the guy and wish there were more Democrats like him.
   1106. zenbitz Posted: June 03, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5684954)
Yes JE please continue telling us how the (upper) middle class in CA is disrupting the progressive agenda.

This is why I just laugh when you and other "cons" complain about how liberal pols like Pelosi, Clinton, Feinstein or Obama are.

They're centrists from a socialist POV.
   1107. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 03, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5684994)
Liberal documentarian Michael Moore writes an extended, clear-eyed, compassionate Facebook entry about Roseanne Barr, reprinted here on Deadline Hollywood.

Roseanne seems to be suffering from some sort of madness. It’s more than just saying she’s a racist. She operates in the same sewer of lies, conspiracy theories and bigotry that’s been rising in America for years and that has now succeeded in electing our current president. Totally nuts.


Fifty-nine Deceits in Farenheit 9/11, by Dave Kopel.
   1108. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 03, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5685007)
Assuming you didn't think Hillary killed Vince Foster or drowned Mary Jo Kopechne at Chappaquiddick, just what was it about Biden that made him more acceptable to you than Hillary?


He didn't have a spouse who was already president.
   1109. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 03, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5685038)
. . . California is not SOCIALIST ENOUGH.

Well, Elon Musk's Not A Flamethrower Flamethrower is still legal in California. Makes a nice gift for any Mets fan.
   1110. BDC Posted: June 03, 2018 at 05:07 PM (#5685051)
Just to be obvious, states fall generally into R and L categories, but the details can be surprisingly nuanced. California is full of hippies and weed and people who say "intersectionality," but it has also been home for 40 years to the literally get-off-my lawn Prop 13. Deep-blue Washington has no income tax. Utah is unbelievably uptight, and is home to the Housing First initiative. Free two-year college first became a reality in Tennessee. Texas … wait, give me a few weeks, I'll think of something :-D
   1111. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 03, 2018 at 05:20 PM (#5685056)
So IOW your idea of an acceptable Democrat in 2016 would've been Biden running on the same platform as Hillary, at that point the most liberal platform in the Dems' history. I'm feeling my cynicism overcoming my skepticism, but I'll just let your comment hang there.

As I explained numerous times between 2013-16, Biden has a long history of collaborating with Republicans and has seemed as honest as lawmakers come. (I was no fan of his daily commutes from Delaware on Amtrak, but that's a total nothingburger compared to the Clinton Foundation.)

While his Bork and Thomas nomination battles and overheated rhetoric on the campaign trail were low points, I very much like the guy and wish there were more Democrats like him.


So then you'd support Biden if he ran against Trump in 2020? (Talk about a softball question, but then it's no more comically hypothetical than Trump vs Kasich.)

And just out of curiosity, what was wrong with his commutes on Amtrak? Were they taking him away from Senate business? Were other Senators complaining about it?
   1112. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 03, 2018 at 05:25 PM (#5685058)
Texas … wait, give me a few weeks, I'll think of something

Climate controlled stadiums for everyone, Mr. Blindspot.
   1113. Stormy JE Posted: June 03, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5685060)
Yes JE please continue telling us how the (upper) middle class in CA is disrupting the progressive agenda.
Huh? The piece highlights how wealthy progressives have convinced themselves their policy initiatives have helped the state. It turns out... not so much.

For example, the author points out:
In the name of helping the poor and protecting the environment, California has placed myriad restrictions and fees on building new housing units, driving up their price; Progressive local governments like San Francisco & Santa Monica block even those housing projects that comply with zoning laws progressives had agreed to; And the state’s progressive environmental law allows duplicative and anonymous lawsuits to block housing projects for often unethical and frivolous reasons.

Why haven’t lawmakers changed those laws?

Because the progressive residents of Elysium don’t want them to. ...
   1114. Stormy JE Posted: June 03, 2018 at 05:35 PM (#5685062)
So then you'd support Biden if he ran against Trump in 2020? (Talk about a softball question, but then it's no more comically hypothetical than Trump vs Kasich.)
Asked and answered.
And just out of curiosity, what was wrong with his commutes on Amtrak? Were they taking him away from Senate business? Were other Senators complaining about it?
It was a waste of taxpayer money but hardly worth getting too excited about. (Compare, for example, with Panetta's weekly trips to California or Mnuchin's various flights.)
   1115. Howie Menckel Posted: June 03, 2018 at 05:40 PM (#5685063)
the link in 1107 is a bit tedious, but worth it for the fact that Jeffrey Toobin - who I believe in some BBTF precincts is still considered a 'right-wing hack' because he hasn't always toed the party line on Trump analysis - gets a mention:

"Fahrenheit shows Jeffrey Toobin (a sometime talking head lawyer for CNN) claiming that if the Supreme Court had allowed a third recount to proceed past the legal deadline, "under every scenario Gore won the election."

Fahrenheit shows only a snippet of Toobin's remarks on CNN. What Fahrenheit does not show is that Toobin admitted on CNN that the only scenarios for a Gore victory involved a type of recount which Gore had never requested in his lawsuits, and which would have been in violation of Florida law. Toobin's theory likewise depends on re-assigning votes which are plainly marked for one candidate (Pat Buchanan) to Gore, although there are no provisions in Florida law to guess at who a voter "really" meant to vote for and to re-assign the vote."

..................

no need to relitigate THAT issue. just noting that even 18 years ago, Toobin was lousy at the 'right-wing hack' game. wait, I think know why!
   1116. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 03, 2018 at 05:57 PM (#5685065)
So then you'd support Biden if he ran against Trump in 2020? (Talk about a softball question, but then it's no more comically hypothetical than Trump vs Kasich.)

Asked and answered.


Be a sport and refresh my memory. I'm an old man, I'm confused.
   1117. Stormy JE Posted: June 03, 2018 at 06:00 PM (#5685066)
Be a sport and refresh my memory.
Probably not, Uncle Leo, but of all the candidates who might seek the DNC nomination, our country will be best off if he runs and triumphs.
   1118. zenbitz Posted: June 03, 2018 at 07:00 PM (#5685083)
I already called out that particular bit of San francisco nimbyism. What's the conservative solution?

And yes, environmentalism can have negative effects on the poor. How does the GOP treat the poor? Speak English or Die? Right to Work? Health care Ala carte?
   1119. greenback slays lewks Posted: June 03, 2018 at 07:32 PM (#5685088)
I already called out that particular bit of San francisco nimbyism.

JE is concern-trolling you here, but there is a point. SF has been stuck in a housing crisis for, what, decades now? You can't blame Mitch McConnell or the Bible-thumpers or anyone else. This is the Democrats' problem, and they have no obvious solution. Let's not kid ourselves, that a big reason why there's no solution is that the people who own the land in SF think the status quo is just fine TYVM.

What's the conservative solution?

Who cares?
   1120. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 03, 2018 at 07:56 PM (#5685096)
Jason has gone Full Vichy. He is the enemy. He is not your friend.
   1121. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 03, 2018 at 08:09 PM (#5685098)
Jason has gone Full Vichy. He is the enemy. He is not your friend.


He played a Brooks Robinson quality third base last week for the softball team I co-captain so I'll forgive him his trespasses.
   1122. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: June 03, 2018 at 08:12 PM (#5685099)
@thedailybeast:
Rudy Giuliani said on Sunday that President Trump cannot be indicted for any crime so long as he holds the nation’s highest office — not even murder.

@meridithmcgraw:
NEW: First Lady Melania Trump will not attend the G7 or Singapore summit with President Trump, @FLOTUS Communications Director Stephanie Grisham tells me

@abcpolitics:
Asked about shifting explanations for statement on Trump Tower meeting, Rudy Giuliani tells @GStephanopoulos:
"This is the reason you don't let the president testify. Our recollection keeps changing, or we're not even asked a question and somebody makes an assumption."

The President of the United States of America:
....Paul Manafort came into the campaign very late and was with us for a short period of time (he represented Ronald Reagan, Bob Dole & many others over the years), but we should have been told that Comey and the boys were doing a number on him, and he wouldn’t have been hired!

@billkristol:
Have Trump's lawyers been told that Manafort is flipping?
and/or:
Is Trump getting ready to pardon Jared and Don Jr., and intends to blame Manafort for ensnaring them?
   1123. DavidFoss Posted: June 03, 2018 at 08:45 PM (#5685114)
This is the Democrats' problem, and they have no obvious solution. Let's not kid ourselves, that a big reason why there's no solution is that the people who own the land in SF think the status quo is just fine TYVM.


The Republican Prop 13 is a big contributor. When people have their property taxes based on the home value from decades ago, they’re happy and they don’t want to move. People not moving reduces supply and bids up the prices of people who want to enter the market. That makes existing homeowners even happier and less likely to move. The big metro areas are all boxed in by mountain ranges so there is no more room for sprawl. There’s just no undoing prop 13. Even if they wanted to remove it, they’d have to do it gradually over decades to keep from crashing the market — and why would all those old homeowners want to get rid of it anyways?
   1124. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 03, 2018 at 08:52 PM (#5685120)
NEW: First Lady Melania Trump will not attend the G7 or Singapore summit with President Trump, @FLOTUS Communications Director Stephanie Grisham tells me


Is anyone else surprised that given the obviously fake Tweet and Fat Donald’s transparently dishonest “Look she’s right over there waving, oh you just missed her” ploy that there isn’t more concern from the same base who believe there was an international conspiracy to hide Barack Obama’s true status as a jungle-born savage?

Do any of our resident medical experts (circa 2016 when Hillary Clinton was diagnosed with wandering uterus and dropsy) have any thoughts on the prolonged secrecy following treatment for “a benign kidney condition”? What do you suppose the issue is?
   1125. strong silence Posted: June 03, 2018 at 08:54 PM (#5685123)
California progressives are part of the problem. That they don't recognize it annoys me.#

But, the 6th (or 7th) largest economy in the world will have inequality*. And red staters like JE are the last ones we'll take advice from.

Prison unions and the Prison-industrial-Complex came about because of conservatives.

I'm liberal and I'd like to see an end to teachers unions and some true reforms. That they don't recognize that they are a big part of the problem annoys me.

#Similar in degree to Victor Davis Hanson.

*Mexicans who come here don't complain about it; they know their lives are better here than in Mexico.
   1126. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 03, 2018 at 08:56 PM (#5685126)
Greenback, #1083:
But I'm also saying that the one-note comedy [Rush Limbaugh] does is the kind of comedy his audience eats up, whether it's doing a spastic wiggle to mock Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's or calling a birth control advocate a slut or calling Chelsea Clinton a dog face or calling women's rights figures feminazis or playing a song parody about "Barack the Magic Negro" or playing a flushing toilet noise when he hangs up on callers or endlessly repeating cornball insult names like "Chuck You Schumer" and "Lindsey Grahamnesty" and "Ruth Buzzi Ginsburg" and "David Camera Hogg" or proclaiming that his talent is on loan from God.

This is a disturbing volume of detailed knowledge of Rush Limbaugh's shtick.

I had to look up the list of lame nicknames. Everything else I've picked up over the years. However, I can also tell you about Adam Sandler's golf course fistfight with Bob Barker in a movie I haven't seen.
   1127. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 03, 2018 at 08:58 PM (#5685127)
#Similar in degree to Victor Davis Hanson


Oh wasn’t he an enthusiastic proponent of the Great War of Adventure in Iraq. Vigorous flag-waving. Not shy about calling those terrorist-coddling defeatist hippies to the carpet. Glorious times.
   1128. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 03, 2018 at 09:01 PM (#5685129)
And again, anyone who overlooks the pivotal role of comedy in Rush Limbaugh's career is totally missing the boat on what made him so successful.
Saying that he uses humor is not remotely the same thing as saying that he's a comedian. Unlike the people you were describing, he's deliberately seeking applause rather than laughter. Let's say two visitors from Mars were discussing the media. One could turn to the other and say, "Don't bother watching that Bee show; she's just not funny." But that same criticism of Limbaugh just wouldn't make any sense.
   1129. strong silence Posted: June 03, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5685148)
VDH did make that error In judgement, like many Rs and Ds. Nevertheless he is often sane and rational and accurately describes California's problems. What's your point?
   1130. strong silence Posted: June 03, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5685153)
Prop 13 was bipartisan.
   1131. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: June 03, 2018 at 09:33 PM (#5685154)
VDH did make that error In judgement

I don’t understand what you mean by ‘error’. The invasion of Iraq was an unqualified success. We just didn’t surge hard enough to maintain the victory :(
   1132. strong silence Posted: June 03, 2018 at 09:37 PM (#5685156)
That isn't true. And JE and YC and others like them need to know how this nation made this tragic mistake so it doesn't happen again.
   1133. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 03, 2018 at 09:41 PM (#5685157)
@thedailybeast:
Rudy Giuliani said on Sunday that President Trump cannot be indicted for any crime so long as he holds the nation’s highest office — not even murder

From the WP and straight into the revised edition of The Sayings of Generalissimo Giuliani, Ghostwritten by Casey Stengel:
“He probably does,” Giuliani said, when asked on ABC’s “This Week” if Trump has the ability to pardon himself. “He has no intention of pardoning himself, but he probably — not to say he can’t.”

   1134. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 03, 2018 at 10:11 PM (#5685193)
David N, #1128:
Saying that [Rush Limbaugh] uses humor is not remotely the same thing as saying that he's a comedian.


Not remotely, huh?


Unlike the people you were describing, he's deliberately seeking applause rather than laughter. Let's say two visitors from Mars were discussing the media. One could turn to the other and say, "Don't bother watching that Bee show; she's just not funny." But that same criticism of Limbaugh just wouldn't make any....


[flushing toilet sound]

Don't get mad, because I wasn't using dismissive comedy to mock you. That was my punditry.
   1135. BDC Posted: June 03, 2018 at 10:23 PM (#5685214)
Melania gone for 24 days ... who was the last first lady to disappear like that? Ida McKinley? Mary Lincoln?
   1136. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 03, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5685216)
The #1122 assortment omitted Bill Clinton, speaking today:

“I think if the roles were reversed ― now, this is me just talking, but it’s based on my experience ― I think if it were a Democratic president, and these facts were present, most people I know in Washington believe impeachment hearings would have begun already.”
   1137. Ray (CTL) Posted: June 03, 2018 at 10:56 PM (#5685240)
Melania gone for 24 days ... who was the last first lady to disappear like that? Ida McKinley? Mary Lincoln?


Engaging in conspiracy theories isn't really a good look.
   1138. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: June 03, 2018 at 11:00 PM (#5685244)
What’s the conspiracy theory you see discussed here, Ray, M.D.?
   1139. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 03, 2018 at 11:20 PM (#5685261)
What’s the conspiracy theory you see discussed here, Ray, M.D.?


Questioning why we've not seen the FLOTUS in nearly a month when we already got a tweet that was obviously written by her a few days ago. DUH!
   1140. BDC Posted: June 03, 2018 at 11:42 PM (#5685267)
I was more directly asking whether there was another famous vanishing FL that I had forgotten about. Whatever her innocent reasons for checking out of the social & diplomatic whirl, Melania is bucking precedent … or is she? Did Pat Nixon drop off the radar for weeks at a time? Maybe she did.
   1141. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 03, 2018 at 11:46 PM (#5685269)
What’s the conspiracy theory you see discussed here, Ray, M.D.?

Questioning why we've not seen the FLOTUS in nearly a month when we already got a tweet that was obviously written by her a few days ago. DUH!

Of course it might also be that all those "conspiracy theories" are nothing but tongue-in-cheek chain jerking. John Oliver just offered the thought that FLOTUS is in exile in North Korea, but does that mean Oliver actually thinks she's ditched her joyous marriage to Trump for a life with Kim Jong-un?
   1142. Stormy JE Posted: June 03, 2018 at 11:56 PM (#5685275)
Questioning why we've not seen the FLOTUS in nearly a month when we already got a tweet that was obviously written by her a few days ago. DUH!
We do know there's a difference between FLOTUS not having taken part in a public event and not being seen, right? In any event, you nutty nutters will probably be disappointed tomorrow, as she's slated to take part in a public event for Gold Star families.
   1143. Stormy JE Posted: June 03, 2018 at 11:57 PM (#5685277)
He played a Brooks Robinson quality third base last week for the softball team I co-captain so I'll forgive him his trespasses.
Thanks too for not mentioning my leaving seven or eight runners stranded in three plate appearances. :-0
   1144. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:01 AM (#5685280)
you nutters will probably be disappointed, as she's slated to take part in a public event tomorrow for Gold Star families.

Why would anyone be disappointed?
   1145. Howie Menckel Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:02 AM (#5685281)
this can't be the same Stormy JE who went Jim Bottomley on us in BBTF softball a couple of years ago

I was the only one who RBI'd him home that day - granted, he's on 3rd, nobody out, so any ground ball hit fair is a "productive out"
   1146. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 04, 2018 at 12:13 AM (#5685282)
I’m not being coy when I say I didn’t think anyone here was pushing any conspiracy theories. Best I can tell, BDC questioned who was the last First Lady who last dropped out of public sight for as long as Melania has. I don’t think it’s an inappropriate thing to wonder aloud, and it doesn’t look like anyone here was wishing any malice on her, so the “you’ll be disappointed to know” comment seems unwarranted.
   1147. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:30 AM (#5685285)
I never claimed that Democrats were not responsible for the SF housing situation. But I don't think the problem is that the politics are too progressive.

Prop 13 is a freakin disaster. Not sure it was totally predictable back in 1978, but I will tell you that my public teacher dad and his commie buddies were all strongly opposed. I think I missed a week or two of 1st grade due to teachers strikes.
   1148. zenbitz Posted: June 04, 2018 at 01:31 AM (#5685286)
Probably the flaw with prop 13 wasn't the initial cut of tax rates, but rather Grandfathering them in at the price you bought your house in perpetuity.
   1149. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 04, 2018 at 04:36 AM (#5685292)
Melania gone for 24 days ... who was the last first lady to disappear like that? Ida McKinley? Mary Lincoln?

Engaging in conspiracy theories isn't really a good look.

Of course it might also be that all those "conspiracy theories" are nothing but tongue-in-cheek chain jerking.

Where's Melania? Trump said it plainly almost two years ago: "extreme extreme vetting."

If the White House wants America to think Melania is healthy, what they need to do is send out Sarah or Donald to issue an official statement saying she's critically ill.
   1150. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 04:46 AM (#5685293)
It's not California that's (especially) racist, it's capitalism that is. Assuming, of course that disparite impact, is, in fact racism. Not something I would expect JE to argue.
Progressive local governments like San Francisco and Santa Monica block even those housing projects that comply with zoning laws progressives had agreed to;
Yeah this is a big deal. But again, it's not racist, it's capitalist.
That is literally the opposite of capitalist.
   1151. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 04:52 AM (#5685294)
You're being uncharacteristically simple-minded. Obama's decision to help Hillary secure the nomination took place long before the summer of 2015. Had he telegraphed his preference for Biden early on, as Reagan did with his Veep, Biden would have been in pretty good shape vis-a-vis Hillary, running as the "Obama third term" candidate.

You're overrating Biden's appeal to the Democratic base, and underrating both Hillary's and that of a left wing insurgent, either Sanders or someone else who might have arisen. Obama didn't discourage Biden out of any love for Hillary; he did it because he knew what a disaster that sort of an intraparty battle would've been with two old white centrists fighting over the "legacy" claim, and women once again being felt they were being pushed aside.
No, I must disagree with Jason; you're being characteristically simple-minded. Primaries are contests between candidates for the nomination; they are not "intraparty battles." And there's no evidence that they are disasters for parties. And of course we've already established that the notion that women vote for women candidates in the way that blacks vote for black candidates is wrong. You're just repeating silly cliches.
   1152. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 05:10 AM (#5685295)

Prop 13 is a freakin disaster. Not sure it was totally predictable back in 1978, but I will tell you that my public teacher dad and his commie buddies were all strongly opposed. I think I missed a week or two of 1st grade due to teachers strikes.
Well, of course liberals/commies (but I repeat myself) are opposed to any policy that involves lowering taxes. But why are people bringing up Prop 13? Prop 13 has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue, which is failing to build new housing. California's population is growing; you can't musical chairs your way to sufficient housing. You need more. Unlike, say, rent control and insane anti-eviction laws (which have a similar effect on discouraging people from moving) Prop 13 doesn't discourage anyone from putting new residential properties on the housing market.
   1153. Lassus Posted: June 04, 2018 at 05:16 AM (#5685296)
Listening to a Libertarian lecture on Capitalism is like listening to a Communist lecture on collective farming.
   1154. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 06:22 AM (#5685300)

I get that 1153 is intended to be pejorative, but I don't get what it's actually saying. Government deciding what development can take place and where is the opposite of capitalism.
   1155. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 06:23 AM (#5685301)
@thedailybeast:
Rudy Giuliani said on Sunday that President Trump cannot be indicted for any crime so long as he holds the nation’s highest office — not even murder


Aside from the obvious fact that this is the sort of imperial bluster you’d expect to hear about the dictator of some third-world ######## instead of the United States of America, the idea of a fat sissypants like Donald Trump being physically and emotionally capable of actually killing someone with his own two tiny hands is laughable. Trump doesn’t engage in physical violence with anyone other than women. Beyond that, he hides behind shyster lawyers to threaten people with financial ruin, like all well-heeled plutocrat bullies in America.
   1156. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 06:42 AM (#5685302)
VDH did make that error In judgement, like many Rs and Ds


Who would have though in 2003 that some 15 years later we’d be discussing the Great War of Adventure as a bipartisan effort and not the triumph of Real America against the objectively pro-Saddam hippies who support the terrorists. I guess you had to wait for the outcome to manifest before making the pivot.
   1157. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 06:50 AM (#5685304)
We do know there's a difference between FLOTUS not having taken part in a public event and not being seen, right?


Lookie here, our own sad sack Juan, who has no trouble citing conspiratorial hysterics from Tucker Carlson and /pol, has found a conspiracy he simply cannot abide.

Of course Juan is a a bit of a diva, having blocked me for reasons that only makes sense to him and similarly delicate fancy lads, so he missed my #1124 where I note that what makes this disappearance of Melanie Trump [sic] so curious is the obviously fake Tweet and Donald the Dullard’s openly fake “She’s waving at us from the window right now! Oh, well, you just missed her.”

Maybe if we could work a Deep State angle into this he would care. Did her surgeon ever work for someone who knew (((Soros)))? I’m just asking questions.
   1158. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 04, 2018 at 07:33 AM (#5685307)
   1159. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 07:39 AM (#5685308)
He played a Brooks Robinson quality third base last week for the softball team I co-captain so I'll forgive him his trespasses.


One assumes this was after he murdered some Iranian kids but before he sucked off a fascist.
   1160. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 04, 2018 at 07:41 AM (#5685309)
That would be some Bugs Bunny-level baseball field multitasking.
   1161. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 07:54 AM (#5685310)
Of course Juan is a a bit of a diva, having blocked me for reasons that only makes sense to him and similarly delicate fancy lads, so he missed my #1124 where I note that what makes this disappearance of Melanie Trump [sic] so curious is the obviously fake Tweet and Donald the Dullard’s openly fake “She’s waving at us from the window right now! Oh, well, you just missed her.”


The Decline and Fall of Jason has been the most disturbing thing in the world. But it's no shock, as he is more or less our own personally canary in the coal mine of rising acceptance of fascism and evil (more outrightly so) from the right in America, so long as they get their precious religious nutjob judges appointed.

You can love America, or be a Republican. You can't be both.
   1162. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 04, 2018 at 07:54 AM (#5685311)
I submitted a new thread.


What about the new thread? What about it!
   1163. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 07:55 AM (#5685312)
One assumes this was after he murdered some Iranian kids but before he sucked off a fascist.


Doing the the two at the same time is the only way he can find any simulation of sexual satisfaction.
   1164. Lassus Posted: June 04, 2018 at 08:09 AM (#5685314)
I get that 1153 is intended to be pejorative, but I don't get what it's actually saying. Government deciding what development can take place and where is the opposite of capitalism.

Is Capitalism ever a bad thing, or ever the driving force behind anything bad?
   1165. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 04, 2018 at 08:21 AM (#5685315)
You're being uncharacteristically simple-minded. Obama's decision to help Hillary secure the nomination took place long before the summer of 2015. Had he telegraphed his preference for Biden early on, as Reagan did with his Veep, Biden would have been in pretty good shape vis-a-vis Hillary, running as the "Obama third term" candidate.


You're overrating Biden's appeal to the Democratic base, and underrating both Hillary's and that of a left wing insurgent, either Sanders or someone else who might have arisen. Obama didn't discourage Biden out of any love for Hillary; he did it because he knew what a disaster that sort of an intraparty battle would've been with two old white centrists fighting over the "legacy" claim, and women once again being felt they were being pushed aside.

No, I must disagree with Jason; you're being characteristically simple-minded. Primaries are contests between candidates for the nomination; they are not "intraparty battles."


I'm not sure how else you'd describe an ideological battle within the the set of Democratic voters, but nitpick away.

And there's no evidence that they are disasters for parties.

Ideological intraparty battles don't produce disasters unless they reflect irreconcilable divisions, and in a close election it doesn't take much for the losers to take out their frustrations in the general election by not voting or defecting to third parties. Other than 1968, it's true that we haven't seen much evidence of this in the past, but in an age of identity politics** it's far more likely to occur, especially when in this case one of the candidates was a woman who'd already lost a close battle for the nomination to a president who'd now (under the alternate history hypothetical) have tried to muscle her aside once again.

And of course we've already established that the notion that women vote for women candidates in the way that blacks vote for black candidates is wrong. You're just repeating silly cliches.

It's hardly a cliche to suppose that many women who'd patiently waited 8 years for Hillary to become an historic "first" might not have gone along with Obama trying to tip the scales in favor of a 73 year old white man who'd never shown any previous signs of being a viable national candidate.

** Here I don't mean merely racial or gender identity, but ideological identity on a level that we haven't seen since the days well before primaries were established. Think of the GOP in 1912, for example.

   1166. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 04, 2018 at 08:22 AM (#5685316)
Is Capitalism ever a bad thing, or ever the driving force behind anything bad?


Generically, Capitalism's main outcome is that is allocates resources efficiently*. Of course, efficiency is not everything and it says little about what it is being so efficient at. And of course I am speaking about classic perfect competition market based capitalism, not what we actually see "in the wild".

* Technically with Pareto Efficiency, but why be technical.
   1167. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 04, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5685317)
and insane anti-eviction laws (which have a similar effect on discouraging people from moving

I see you're going for the Euphemism of the Year award. Keep up the good work.
   1168. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5685331)
Is Capitalism ever a bad thing, or ever the driving force behind anything bad?


Libertarians on government power

Libertarians on corporate power
   1169. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:11 AM (#5685333)
One assumes this was after he murdered some Iranian kids but before he sucked off a fascist.

Doing the the two at the same time is the only way he can find any simulation of sexual satisfaction.


Bill Hicks (sorely missed) used to do a bit on Rush Limbaugh's self-loathing and what it would likely require for him to be aroused. It was funny in a repugnant manner, not unlike "The Aristocrats".
   1170. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:20 AM (#5685339)
Bill Hicks (sorely missed) used to do a bit on Rush Limbaugh's self-loathing


Self-loathing proves that Limbaugh is a comedian.
   1171. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:30 AM (#5685341)
Speaking of MIA, has anyone heard from Bill Clinton lately?

Oh wait, there he is...
   1172. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:32 AM (#5685342)
See #1136.
   1173. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:36 AM (#5685345)
* Technically with Pareto Efficiency, but why be technical.

Because you're having a conversation with David.
   1174. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:37 AM (#5685346)
See #1136.
Thanks for sharing Bill's whataboutism comment, Gonfalon.

Bill Clinton Wouldn't Have Done Anything Differently in Lewinsky Scandal, Even in #MeToo Era

After his latest outburst, will any Democrats still want him on the campaign trail this summer and fall?
   1175. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5685351)
Not to bring it back up again but JE's link about Obama and Biden doesn't make the claim that he thinks it makes. Biden in the article is quoted as saying he had talks with Obama and he advised Biden not to run for a variety of reasons. It does not show any evidence that Obama pushed Biden aside.

If I tell you the lottery is a bad gamble and you opt not to buy a ticket I didn't prevent you from buying a ticket.
   1176. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:43 AM (#5685352)
After his latest outburst, will any Democrats still want him on the campaign trail this summer and fall?

Remove the party affiliation and you could be talking about the sitting President on any random day of the week.
   1177. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:43 AM (#5685354)
Libertarians on government power

Libertarians on corporate power


It's okay if the jack-boot is privately funded.
   1178. Traderdave Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:44 AM (#5685355)
Well, of course liberals/commies (but I repeat myself) are opposed to any policy that involves lowering taxes. But why are people bringing up Prop 13? Prop 13 has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue, which is failing to build new housing. California's population is growing; you can't musical chairs your way to sufficient housing. You need more. Unlike, say, rent control and insane anti-eviction laws (which have a similar effect on discouraging people from moving) Prop 13 doesn't discourage anyone from putting new residential properties on the housing market.


C+, partial credit.

You are of course axiomatically correct that failure to increase supply is the primary problem with housing in California, but you ignore the significant contribution of P13 to that problem. It creates a tremendous disincentive to sell and downsize. The state is full of OAP's, a large number of them widowed or otherwise single living in 3+ bedroom houses. Most of them pay peanuts in property tax and stay put, crimping the supply of housing for growing families.

There is also a significant issue of justice & fairness in taxation. I'll give you 1 personal example:

Homes on my block average approx $1.5MM, give or take a bit depending on how updated the kitchens and bathrooms are.

We bought at the last peak in '05, our taxes 13M per year
Next door bought in current market frenzy, their taxes 20M per year
Across the street has lived there since 1967 and taxes based on 1978's Prop 13 readjustment, they pay $2200 per year.

The market values of these home are roughly equivalent, at most 200M difference between highest and lowest and probably less than that. It's the equivalent of one's income tax rate being based not on income but on length of tenure in one's job. Not only is that a major issue of fairness, it's also an obvious disincentive to changing jobs, preventing younger workers from entering the job market.

I look forward to the pedantic, granular wordsmithing sure to follow in rejoinder.
   1179. DavidFoss Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:44 AM (#5685356)
After his latest outburst, will any Democrats still want him on the campaign trail this summer and fall?

Did any of them want him on the campaign trail before? It's been 22 years since he was last on a ballot and he was running against a guy who forgot that the Dodgers weren't still in Brooklyn. But the DailyCaller will have some headlines to run with for the next few weeks, so there is that.
   1180. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5685360)
Wow, I hadn't realized that Bill had co-authored a novel about a POTUS facing a crisis.

And this is too, too precious:

Readers may wonder why the authors decide early on to kill off the first lady, who was a brilliant law student when she first dazzled Duncan.”

NARRATOR: Readers didn't wonder.

   1181. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5685361)
After his latest outburst, will any Democrats still want him on the campaign trail this summer and fall?


More than Republicans who will want W to campaign for them. Fewer than Democrats who will want Obama to campaign for them.
   1182. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5685364)
Did any of them want him on the campaign trail before?
Here's one high-profile Democrat who's all for it.
It's been 22 years since he was last on a ballot and he was running against a guy who forgot that the Dodgers weren't still in Brooklyn.
And it took even longer before any Democrats could begin to distance themselves from him.
   1183. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:53 AM (#5685365)
#1180:
Wow, I hadn't realized that Bill had co-authored a novel about a POTUS facing a crisis.

And this is too, too precious:
“Readers may wonder why the authors decide early on to kill off the first lady, who was a brilliant law student when she first dazzled Duncan.”

NARRATOR: Readers didn't wonder.

Did Trump read the book a month ago?
   1184. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:54 AM (#5685370)
Melania gone for 24 days ... who was the last first lady to disappear like that? Ida McKinley? Mary Lincoln?


Ellen Wilson.
   1185. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5685373)
Not to bring it back up again but JE's link about Obama and Biden doesn't make the claim that he thinks it makes. Biden in the article is quoted as saying he had talks with Obama and he advised Biden not to run for a variety of reasons. It does not show any evidence that Obama pushed Biden aside.
This is about as obtuse as the term gets.
   1186. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:57 AM (#5685376)
Remove the party affiliation and you could be talking about the sitting President on any random day of the week.
Now THIS is whataboutism.
   1187. DavidFoss Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:57 AM (#5685378)
Did Trump read the book a month ago?

She's supposed to go to an event tonight for gold star families. Hopefully that puts an end to this.
   1188. DavidFoss Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5685383)
Now THIS is whataboutism.

You still haven't answered why your original point is relevant. You act like campaigning democrats are scurrying to change their whole campaign strategies because they were all hoping to be standing on a rally stage next to Bill Clinton all October. It's nonsense.
   1189. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 04, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5685384)
She's supposed to go to an event tonight for gold star families. Hopefully that puts an end to this.


Mike Morse:
If Melania comes out of hiding today and sees her shadow, six more weeks of collusion.
   1190. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:00 AM (#5685385)
Cockholstering hack cockholsters.
   1191. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5685389)
This is about as obtuse as the term gets.


Your self referential statement is correct.
   1192. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:03 AM (#5685393)
Again, how did Obama push aside Biden? Apparently your evidence is that he had a conversation with him. The horror.
   1193. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:05 AM (#5685394)
You act like campaigning democrats are scurrying to change their whole campaign strategies because they were all hoping to be standing on a rally stage next to Bill Clinton all October. It's nonsense.
I did no so such thing. After all, the posting of this interview is barely 12 hours old. Now that it's out, though, reporters should surround Cuomo and ask him whether he still wants Bill to campaign with him.
   1194. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5685395)
Again, how did Obama push aside Biden?


Bill Clinton came into the office and grabbed Biden by the #####. Obviously.
   1195. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:06 AM (#5685398)
Again, how did Obama push aside Biden? Apparently your evidence is that he had a conversation with him. The horror.
Asked and answered yesterday.
   1196. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5685399)
reporters should surround Cuomo and ask him whether he still wants Bill to campaign with him

You're encouraging 'gotcha journalism'?
   1197. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:07 AM (#5685400)
Now THIS is whataboutism.

Your statement was nothing more than a distraction and or blissful ignorance which is what whataboutism is all about. We're talking about the here and now and who will control our government. Your side has a buffoon leading it with a bunch of Rhesus monkeys following him. Instead of actually holding any of them accountable you and many like you would rather distract people with lies, conspiracies, and ghosts from years past. It takes a lot of chutzpah or perhaps stupidity to say your post 1174 with a straight face. But it probably wasn't said with a straight face but with a troll's smirk instead.
   1198. McCoy Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:09 AM (#5685401)
Asked and answered yesterday.


Oh, he had a good talk with him. The bastard.
   1199. Stormy JE Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5685404)
Your statement was nothing more than a distraction and or blissful ignorance which is what whataboutism is all about.
No, it isn't, genius.
   1200. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 04, 2018 at 10:18 AM (#5685407)
In baking news, the Supreme Court reversed Masterpiece Cakeshop in a decision by Justice Kennedy. Violation of the Free Exercise Clause.
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