Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Sunday, May 06, 2018

OTP 2018 May 7: George F. Will Is the Umpire on Politics and Baseball

I sat down Washington Post columnist and author George F. Will in Austin, Texas, in late March to chat about the current administration and America’s favorite pastime — baseball. We discuss politics in the age of polarization and the future of America.

Baseball is the sport of America’s future, Will argues, as parents stop letting their children play football because of the dangers of lifelong head and body injuries.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 06, 2018 at 02:42 PM | 1452 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hot takes, off topic, oldwarhorse, politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 15 pages  < 1 2 3 4 >  Last ›
   101. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5667837)
Jason doesn't need me to defend him,
Thank you, all the same. :)
   102. PreservedFish Posted: May 07, 2018 at 01:48 PM (#5667838)
The Yankees thread has devolved into talking about Star Wars and the Civil War.

I think you mean "evolved."
   103. Lassus Posted: May 07, 2018 at 01:49 PM (#5667841)
The Yankees thread has devolved into talking about Star Wars and the Civil War.

In fairness to BTF, that headline tho.
   104. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5667843)
The Yankees thread has devolved into talking about Star Wars and the Civil War.


It's almost as if a community of individuals who are familiar with each other will have conversations that ebb and flow naturally, rather than sticking to any particular "topic."
   105. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5667845)
Basketball can be even more dramatic in that respect. My father went to DePaul when Ray Meyer was having his first run of glory there in the 1940s,


My softball team has a core group of early 30-somethings who went to Tennessee together. They talk about college basketball a lot, and I will occasionally mention the fact that Georgia Tech used to be an honest to god powerhouse during the Bobby Cremins years.
   106. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 07, 2018 at 01:58 PM (#5667849)
Well I'm about 200 pages into "Shattered", the autopsy of the Clinton campaign. Doesn't really cover too much new ground but just personally it reminded me of all the reasons electoral politics is a #### career choice, either as a candidate/pol or a campaign fixer.

The Mooks guy comes across as a complete idiot, that's my other takeaway. Unready to run a national campaign and (although this is not his fault, but Hillary's) completely lacking the gravitas and clear org structure needed to get everybody pulling the same side of the rope. Hillary at times comes across as a passenger on her own campaign while the pilots wrestle over who has control of the plane. Hillary didn't want a centralized, top down org structure and it absolutely was a detriment.

But all that said, they probably win if Comey doesn't make his announcement. As summed up early by one of her aides after the narrow Iowa caucus victory "we just can't have nice things".

It's almost as if a community of individuals who are familiar with each other will have conversations that ebb and flow naturally, rather than sticking to any particular "topic."


Some moderation is good though. This is a pretty moderation free place and I think at times it could benefit from some more organization. A lot of the threads get derailed.
   107. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5667853)
Politico: Blankenship surging on eve of West Virginia Senate primary

Maybe, but I have some doubt about that. The article quoted in #7, and others similar to that one, appear to be based on material from the camps of the candidates leading in the public polls, Jenkins & Morrisey, designed to increase the anti-Blankenship turnout, and paint each of them as the best vehicle for preventing Blankenship from winning. Some skepticism seems appropriate.
   108. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5667856)
Aish:
“Dangerous Liaison: The Inside Story of the US-Israel Covert Relationship”, which Cockburn wrote with her husband, accused Israel of secretly controlling American policies. A New York Times review of her screed noted “their book, supposedly a history of the secret ties between Israel and the United States, is largely dedicated to Israel-bashing for its own sake. Its first message is that, win or lose, smart or dumb, right or wrong, suave or boorish, Israelis are a menace. The second is that the Israeli-American connection is somewhere behind just about everything that ails us.”
Do you really want to die on this hill, Andy?

BTW, when will your cherished SPLC get around to declaring the Nation of Islam a hate group so that Amazon Smile can remove Farrakhan from the donees list?
   109. Lassus Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:08 PM (#5667857)
So, will Blankenship be the liberal West Virginian's new Trump? Praying for him to win the primary, so he can lose the general, only he'll win?
   110. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5667860)
BTW, when will your cherished SPLC get around to declaring the Nation of Islam a hate group so that Amazon Smile can remove Farrakhan from the Amazon Smile donees list?
Uh, no time soon; @splcenter has far more pressing issues of hate to vanquish:
Most of the festivities surrounding #CincodeMayo in the US are textbook examples of cultural appropriation, relegating the history and culture of Mexican people to novelty items. Mexican culture cannot be reduced to tacos, oversized sombreros and piñatas.
   111. -- Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5667861)
Most of the festivities surrounding #CincodeMayo in the US are textbook examples of cultural appropriation, relegating the history and culture of Mexican people to novelty items. Mexican culture cannot be reduced to tacos, oversized sombreros and piñatas.


LOL. And Japanese culture can't be reduced to sushi but nevertheless, I enjoyed my lunch.

"Cultural appropriation" -- yet another dumbass, ridiculous idea brought to you by today's modern left in its relentless efforts to stir up cultural and racial resentment and animosity.

It's performative wokeness -- nothing more.
   112. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:13 PM (#5667862)
Uh, no time soon; @splcenter has far more pressing issues of hate to vanquish:
Hey, at least it's not as vicious as the online harassment of the Utah high school girl who wore a traditional Chinese dress to her prom.

These are not serious people.
   113. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5667863)
"Cultural appropriation" -- yet another dumbass, ridiculous idea brought to you by today's modern left in its relentless efforts to stir up cultural and racial resentment and animosity.
UNPOSSIBLE. Lassus swore this lunacy was confined to maybe one liberal arts college somewhere in rural New England.
   114. -- Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5667864)
Hey, at least it's not as vicious as the online harassment of the Utah high school girl who wore a traditional Chinese dress to her prom.


His culture is NOT her prom dress!!!

What a complete d-bag.
   115. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5667865)
Mexican culture cannot be reduced to tacos, oversized sombreros and piñatas.

Take it up with Big Alcohol, who turned Cinco de Mayo into Mexican Mardi Gras.
   116. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5667866)
The Mooks guy comes across as a complete idiot, that's my other takeaway.

I agree about that, but before he lost what should have been a winnable presidential election, Robby Mook was considered something of a political genius, of sorts. The whole Mook Mafia thing struck me as excessive self-promotion, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2020 contender hire him, probably to his/her regret.
   117. Lassus Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5667868)
But Lassus swears this lunacy is confined to maybe one liberal arts college somewhere in rural New England.

I have frequently spoken up against liberal overreach, snowflake. You hang out over there with SBB, you make great colleagues. Maybe you can work on Blankenship's campaign together.
   118. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:16 PM (#5667869)
Nation of Islam is relevant to people who live in New York, and maybe prison.
   119. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5667871)
Speaking of unserious people...

Climate skeptics more eco-friendly than global-warming alarmists: study:
Al Gore has been accused of hypocrisy for talking the talk on climate change despite burning through fossil fuels at a rapid clip, but it turns out he’s not alone.

A study by Cornell and the University of Michigan researchers found that those “highly concerned” about climate change were less likely to engage in recycling and other eco-friendly behaviors than global-warming skeptics.

Published in the April edition of the Journal of Environmental Psychology, the one-year study broke 600 participants into three groups based on their level of concern about climate change: “highly concerned,” “cautiously worried,” and “skeptical.”

The “highly concerned” cluster was “most supportive of government climate policies, but least likely to report individual-level actions, whereas the ‘Skeptical’ opposed policy solutions but were most likely to report engaging in individual-level pro-environmental behaviors,” the researchers concluded.

Conducting the study, entitled “Believing in climate change but not behaving sustainably,” were Cornell assistant professor Neil A. Lewis Jr. and University of Michigan researchers Michael P. Hall and Phoebe C. Ellsworth.
How embarrassing.
   120. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:17 PM (#5667873)
Lassus swore this lunacy was confined to maybe one liberal arts college somewhere in rural New England.


Your party elected Donald Trump.
   121. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5667874)
Speaking of unserious people...


The Moonies. He's linking to the Moonie Times. Just FTR.
   122. Lassus Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5667876)
How embarrassing.

Yes, that you're reading the Washington Times.


whereas the ‘Skeptical’ opposed policy solutions but were most likely to report engaging in individual-level pro-environmental behaviors,” the researchers concluded.

Jesus, Shakespeare covered this, FFS.
   123. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5667877)
I read that #### with you guys ripping on Andy and David's response was so disingenuous. You really, David, think that a paper doesn't pick and choose what wire stories it prints based on a (biased) editorial process? That's BS.

That criticism is Israel is automatically "antisemitism" is so Orwellian it makes me want to puke. It's like saying that criticism of the War on Terror is un-American. It's the sort of groupthink non-sense that gives us such bullshit as "America First" and Trumpism and Black Cube.

The idea that 9/11 or the Holocaust gives the West carte blanche for the rest of time to engage in endless war, drone campaigns, rendition, and Black Cube style espionage under some banner of "never again" is ludicrous. Sounds like the same poison rhetoric of the Mullahs imo. An eye for an eye leads to what exactly?

   124. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:20 PM (#5667878)
   125. Count Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5667882)
The discussion of that candidate’s book is missing any quotes from the book, so how can you tell whether or not the accusations are accurate? I find it plausible that it’s irrationally anti-Israel and overly focused on pro-Israel Jews in the US but no evidence has been presented here at all.
   126. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:23 PM (#5667883)
Jesus, Shakespeare covered this, FFS.


Really? "Jesus?" The guy that wrote the character of Shylock? Antisemite.
   127. Count Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:24 PM (#5667885)
If Blankenship wins then YC and JE will support him, right?
   128. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5667888)
If Blankenship wins then YC and JE will support him, right?


Absolutely. Without question.
   129. Count Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5667889)
Oliver North announced as next head of NRA, which makes sense if the NRA’s primary mission is to troll liberals.
   130. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5667893)
That criticism is Israel is automatically "antisemitism"
No one here has ever said such a thing but thanks for trying to immunize those, like Cockburn, who single out Israel for criticism, to the point of ignoring the actions of most/all other countries.
Black Cube style espionage
I'm old enough to remember when this supposed activity was "opposition research" and everyone did it.
   131. Lassus Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5667894)
Oliver North announced as next head of NRA, which makes sense if the NRA’s primary mission is to troll liberals.

Really? Seems kind of weak for that purpose, not much profile lately.
   132. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5667895)
Aish:

“Dangerous Liaison: The Inside Story of the US-Israel Covert Relationship”, which Cockburn wrote with her husband, accused Israel of secretly controlling American policies. A New York Times review of her screed noted “their book, supposedly a history of the secret ties between Israel and the United States, is largely dedicated to Israel-bashing for its own sake. Its first message is that, win or lose, smart or dumb, right or wrong, suave or boorish, Israelis are a menace. The second is that the Israeli-American connection is somewhere behind just about everything that ails us.”


Do you really want to die on this hill, Andy?

I've already said that any Cockburn merits a red flag, but again, do you ever link to websites that aren't simply a parroting of what you've already concluded? All this new link does is to quote the same excerpt from the Times review that the GOP press release disguised as a news article did in your first link. There's nothing new in it, and unlike the Times review that you didn't choose to link to, it doesn't display the slightest degree of nuance.

BTW, when will your cherished SPLC get around to declaring the Nation of Islam a hate group so that Amazon Smile can remove Farrakhan from the Amazon Smile donees list?

That's Amazon's issue, not SPLC's, which has long had this description of Farrakhan and his group.

Here, right at the very ####### top of that page is this paragraph:
Since its founding in 1930, the Nation of Islam (NOI) has grown into one of the wealthiest and best-known organizations in black America. Its theology of innate black superiority over whites and the deeply racist, antisemitic and anti-LGBT rhetoric of its leaders have earned the NOI a prominent position in the ranks of organized hate.

Emphasis added. And below that paragraph are "In Its Own Words" example after example of Farrakhan's rhetoric. I'll be glad to quote them for you if you're too lazy to click on the link.

I'm not sure why you continue to misrepresent SPLC's position---though I can make a pretty good guess---but every time you've brought up their name your credibility sinks with each successive attack.

EDIT: It's sad to see that David has descended to your level of indifference to the truth when it comes to the SPLC.
   133. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:30 PM (#5667897)
Absolutely. Without question.
Doug Jones says hi.
   134. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:33 PM (#5667899)
I'm not sure why you continue to misrepresent SPLC's position---though I can make a pretty good guess---but every time you've brought up their name your credibility sinks with each successive attack.
Go to Amazon Smile and type in "Nation of Islam."

Enjoy.
   135. Lassus Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:34 PM (#5667900)
Why you be hatin' on Abe Sapien?
   136. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:36 PM (#5667902)
The Moonies. He's linking to the Moonie Times. Just FTR.
Hey, Swampy, just because Slate refuses to cover the Cornell-Michigan study (SHOCK) doesn't mean it never got published.
   137. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:37 PM (#5667904)
No one here has ever said such a thing but thanks for trying to immunize those, like Cockburn, who single out Israel for criticism, to the point of ignoring the actions of most/all other countries, like Cockburn.

Again, here's the part of the Times review of Cockburn's book that you seem supremely uninterested in:
As the Cockburns -- he is the author of "The Threat: Inside the Soviet Military Machine," she of "Out of Control: The Story of the Reagan Administration's Secret War in Central America and the Contra-Drug Connection" -- are at pains to point out, both the Israelis and the Americans have learned to live with the bad as well as the good. They have struggled with omnivorous and mendacious bureaucracies; hefty defense budgets; military-industrial and military-intellectual complexes with their own vested interests and clienteles; contentious intelligence agencies with expansive dirty-tricks departments; and allies one might think twice about inviting to dinner.
Continue reading the main story

The conjunction of hot war, cold war and history has led, in turn, to a relationship between the two countries that is certainly unique, if not the dangerous liaison of the title. Not for nothing, the book begins shortly before the Gulf war, with the Israeli military wowing American Jews with a well-rehearsed public-relations show. But as the rest makes clear, the links extend over decades and continents, and Americans have not had to be Jewish to like what they saw. Lieut. Col. Oliver North is a practical example. When asked during the Iran-contra hearings about Israeli involvement in the scandal, he explained to the congressional investigators: "We did not want the U.S. government's hand, or role in this activity, exposed, and thus . . . we tried to mirror the Israeli model."

The byproducts of the relationship, according to the authors, include nuclear larceny and proliferation, industrial piracy, bloated weapons projects, promiscuous arms peddling, aid and comfort to thugs of almost every political stripe, even a piece of the Colombian drug trade. These, they contend, have sometimes been means to an end, sometimes their own reward. But put them all together, they spell trouble, especially for the United States.

This case can certainly be argued, and the evidence presented here is intermittently original. (Ms. Cockburn's knowledge of Central America seems especially to have paid off.) But for all the former generals and retired spooks paraded through these pages, the facts of Israeli nuclear weapons, arms transfers and dirty tricks are hardly news to either Americans or Israelis who read the papers.

Still less does the book's argument, with its selective documentation and unattributed interviews, support an indictment of Israel. The British, French, Chinese and Indians could be called to testify that not all reasons for nuclear proliferation are necessarily reprehensible. Impressive for their weight class, Israeli arms pushers are still not in a league with Brazil and China, let alone with the United States and the Soviet Union. Israelis have been known to keep nasty company. But who hasn't, and what are the alternatives?

"Dangerous Liaison" is not without merit. Unlike other Israel-bashing volumes, this one at least acknowledges the long shadow of the Holocaust, as well as Stalinist anti-Semitism, Syrian hysteria, Egyptian and Iraqi poison gas, and Palestinian unloveliness. The Cockburns also pay tribute to the combative candor of the Israeli press -- though they typically note that the ever-slippery Israelis insist on publishing their papers in a language no one else can read.

But the authors' acknowledgement of the objective realities confronting Israel hardly begins to outweigh the heavy irony, undifferentiated indignation and historical tendentiousness that otherwise pervade their text. Intent on reporting the facts of life, the Cockburns bring to mind that threshold stage when children discover where babies come from. For the aspiring student of liaisons, dangerous and otherwise, this is, of course, an important discovery. But as any grown-up can confirm, it is barely the beginning of wisdom about how things really work.

Obviously a critical review, and likely deservedly so, but it's not exactly the Protocols of Zion.
   138. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5667907)
Doug Jones says hi.


Who?

just because Slate refuses to cover the Cornell-Michigan study


You are linking to a "news article" from the propaganda organ of a crazy religious cult.
   139. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5667908)
Obviously a critical review, and likely deservedly so, but it's not exactly the Protocols of Zion.
I'm pleased that she acknowledges the Holocaust and Stalin happened. You know, I'm sure your average Klansman acknowledges slavery happened.
   140. zenbitz Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:46 PM (#5667909)
Man, this weeks thread has got me longing for trump/anti-trump idiocy.
   141. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5667912)
From the quoted bit of Jason's promotion of lunatic cult propaganda organs:

The “highly concerned” cluster was “most supportive of government climate policies, but least likely to report individual-level actions, whereas the ‘Skeptical’ opposed policy solutions but were most likely to report engaging in individual-level pro-environmental behaviors,” the researchers concluded.


This bit, even from just the quoted part, is obviously nothing but a hit piece, virtue signalling circle jerk designed to give folks like Jason the upside of a reach around, but think about the question if you must take it "seriously."

People actually engaged with the science as it currently exists are the most likely cohort to know that "recycling" isn't going to make a goddamned bit of difference.
   142. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5667913)
I'm pleased that she acknowledges the Holocaust and Stalin happened. You know, I'm sure your average Klansman acknowledges slavery happened.


The preferred talking point of the moves and shakers of your party today is actually closer to the Kanye-ian "slavery was a choice." Jackass.
   143. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5667915)
I'm not sure why you continue to misrepresent SPLC's position---though I can make a pretty good guess---but every time you've brought up their name your credibility sinks with each successive attack.

Go to Amazon Smile and type in "Nation of Islam."

Enjoy.


I did, and as I wrote before, "That's Amazon's issue, not SPLC's, which has long had this description of Farrakhan and his group."

Okay, obviously you're not interested in what SPLC has to say about the Nation of Islam, so here it is in its entirety:

Since its founding in 1930, the Nation of Islam (NOI) has grown into one of the wealthiest and best-known organizations in black America. Its theology of innate black superiority over whites and the deeply racist, antisemitic and anti-LGBT rhetoric of its leaders have earned the NOI a prominent position in the ranks of organized hate.

I'd already quoted that part, but here's what follows:
Part 1 of 3:

In Its Own Words

"[T]he Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man. He wasn't a great man for me as a black person, but he was a great German. Now, I'm not proud of Hitler's evils against Jewish people, but that's a matter of record. He raised Germany up from nothing. Well, in a sense you could say there's a similarity in that we are raising our people up from nothing."
— Louis Farrakhan, radio interview, March 11, 1984

"Jews have been conclusively linked to the greatest criminal endeavor ever undertaken against an entire race of people … the black African Holocaust. … The effects of this unspeakable tragedy are still being felt among the peoples of the world at this very hour."
— The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews (NOI book), 1991

"Who are the slumlords in the Black community? The so-called Jews. … Who is it sucking our blood in the Black community? A white imposter Arab and a white imposter Jew."
— Speech by NOI national official Khalid Muhammad, Nov. 29, 1993

"These false Jews promote the filth of Hollywood that is seeding the American people and the people of the world and bringing you down in moral strength. … It's the wicked Jews, the false Jews, that are promoting lesbianism, homosexuality. It's the wicked Jews, false Jews, that make it a crime for you to preach the word of God, then they call you homophobic!"
— Louis Farrakhan, Saviours' Day speech, Feb. 26, 2006
Background

For what would become one of the largest and best-organized groups in the history of black America, the Nation of Islam (NOI) had a relatively obscure beginning. Founded by a mysterious clothing salesman in the ghettoes of Detroit in 1930, NOI was considered an insignificant, if highly media-worthy, "‘voodoo sect" throughout much of the 1930s and 1940s.

Founder Wallace D. Fard (according to the FBI other aliases include Farad Muhammad, Wallace Dodd, Wallace Ford, Wallie D. Ford, Wallei Ford, Wallace Farad) and his "messenger" and successor Elijah Muhammad preached a hybrid creed with its own myths and doctrines. These held that over 6,000 years ago, the black race lived in a paradise on earth that was destroyed by the evil wizard Yacub, who created the white "devil" through a scientific process called "grafting." Fard and his disciple preached of a coming apocalyptic overthrow of white domination, insisting that the dominion of evil was to end with God's appearance on earth in the person of Fard. Following this, NOI predicts an epic struggle in which the Nation of Islam will play a key role in preparing and educating the Original People, who ruled the earth in peace and prosperity until Yacub's "blue-eyed devils" came along to gum things up.

The Nation of Islam teaches that intermarriage or race mixing should be prohibited. This is point 10 of the official platform, "What the Muslims Want" published in 1965. Ironically Fard’s FBI file concludes he was born in New Zealand on February 26, 1891 to a British father and Polynesian mother. The California Bureau of Identification and Investigation had Fard listed as Wallace Ford while San Quentin State Prison had him listed as Ford. Michigan State Police and the Los Angeles Police Department had him listed under Wallace Farad and Wallie D. Ford. After determining that all individuals shared the same fingerprint, the FBI found “in all cases he is listed as Caucasian.”

Despite the initial group's small size and early setbacks, Fard and his disciple laid the groundwork for what the group was to become in the 1950s and 1960s. From the start, NOI was tightly organized, a fact most clearly seen in its creation of the elite "Fruit of Islam," a group envisioned by Fard as a paramilitary wing to defend NOI against police attacks. In the 1940s, "messenger" Elijah Muhammad also began constructing what would later be considered the Nation's "empire," purchasing the group's first bit of Michigan farmland in 1945 and founding businesses and educational ventures in several states that a decade later were valued in the millions.

NOI's real boom came during the 1950s, however, when the advent of the civil rights movement and the violent reactions it provoked converged to make NOI's depiction of the "white devil" pertinent to a much larger sector of black America. New members, including Malcolm X and heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali (Cassius Clay before joining NOI), added visibility to the group and, in the case of the former, contributed directly to a meteoric membership increase.

Appointed to the prestigious leadership of Harlem's Temple No. 7 in New York City just two years after his 1952 release from prison, Malcolm X was wildly popular and his years as a prominent member of NOI (1952-1964) saw membership skyrocket from around 400 to between 100,000 and 300,000. But the Nation's vituperative language and its advocacy of self-defense in place of nonviolence alienated it from mainstream civil rights groups. By 1959, Martin Luther King was warning of "a hate group arising in our midst that would preach the doctrine of black supremacy."

Nevertheless, the mid-1960s saw a second membership surge at NOI as a new and more militant generation of black leaders began focusing on the residual racial problems of the North. As urban riots rocked the nation, NOI's message that black elevation could only come through a radical separation from the structures of white oppression continued to resonate for many. Although NOI remained frustratingly conservative in many ways (indeed, Malcolm X "liberated" himself from this conservatism in 1964), its radical rhetoric continued to attract recruits.

Following Malcolm X's 1964 split from his erstwhile mentor, Elijah Muhammad, a rising star in the Nation was appointed to replace him at Temple No. 7. Louis Farrakhan had been working as a cabaret singer until he met Malcolm X and joined NOI in 1955. Ascending rapidly through the ranks, he had proved to be a superb speaker and organizer, managing to win over the congregation left behind by his charismatic predecessor.

He faced a firestorm after Malcolm X's 1965 assassination, for which many blamed NOI. Talmadge Hayer, an NOI member, was arrested on the scene. Eyewitnesses identified two more suspects, Norman 3X Butler and Thomas 15X Johnson, also members of NOI. All three were charged in the case. At first Hayer denied involvement, but during the trial he confessed to having fired shots at Malcolm X (In the months before he was murdered, meanwhile, Malcolm X had a complete change of heart, denouncing the "sickness and madness" of the NOI's racism and turning to Sunni Islam.) Hayer testified that Butler and Johnson were not present and were not involved in the assassination, but he declined to name the men who had joined him in the shooting. All three men were convicted. Butler, now known as Muhammad Abdul Aziz, was paroled in 1985. He became the head of the Nation of Islam's Harlem mosque in New York in 1998.

Farrakhan weathered the storm of Malcolm X's assassination and managed to create a powerful base within the Nation, ascending to the position of national spokesman in 1967.

When Elijah Muhammad died in 1975, Farrakhan initially remained faithful to his son, Wallace Deen (later known as Warith Deen Muhammad or Imam Warithuddeen Muhammad) who succeeded him. But the younger Muhammad's dismantling of the Nation's material empire and his attempts to bring NOI into the fold of mainstream Islam ultimately alienated Farrakhan. In 1977, a rebellious Farrakhan, backed by a powerful enough base to pull it off, rejected the younger Muhammad and declared the creation of a "resurrected" NOI based on the original ideology of Elijah Muhammad. Years later, both Wallace Deen Muhammad and Farrakhan made an appearance in Muslim News Magazine’s documentary titled Saviours Day: A Meeting of the Minds, where Wallace touched on his refusal to acknowledge Farad as the reincarnation of God on earth (due to the fact that Farad was a white man and Elijah claimed White people were the devil). During the interview Wallace claimed his father, Elijah Muhammad, lied about Farad’s desire to be acknowledged as a God/prophet and even refused the title.

At the head of the new NOI, Farrakhan successfully rebuilt an empire regardless of Wallace Deen Muhammad’s view of Farad. Aside from continuing NOI's earlier educational and training programs, the reconstituted Nation embarked on economic self-sufficiency programs, creating bakeries, restaurants, fish markets and even a line of hair and skin care products. NOI also took on a series of initiatives including providing security for housing projects, reaching out to prison inmates, and creating programs for those suffering from HIV and AIDS.

Today the group owns farmland in Michigan and Georgia. Produce from the farm is sold online or in store at Your Supermarket. The group describes their products as being “Naturally grown and harvested without the use of pesticides or herbicides.” To date the group claims to own thousands of acres of land with 1,600 acres in Georgia alone.


   144. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5667916)
SPLC on the NOI, Part 2 of 3:
NOI’s homophobia

Farrakhan’s homophobic rhetoric is one way he entices his followers to support NOI’s projects. On more than one occasion Farrakhan has stated that there is currently an attack being carried out on black masculinity. He claims that homosexuality is the result of a chemical reaction and has convinced his followers that widespread homosexuality is part of a secret agenda being pushed by government scientist. Farrakhan’s take is that by turning the black population gay, the government is trying to target and chemically castrate the black demographic. His belief is that food and water in black communities has been tampered with and it’s the reason the sperm count in black men is currently falling. According to Farrakhan, the answer to these problems is to purchase NOI branded goods from places like Your Supermarket and the online store of NOI Ministry of Agriculture.

The group has taken on several business endeavors and as more followers are brought in, a greater demand of NOI products will follow. With a growth in membership, clientele for businesses like Blue Seas and Salaam Restaurant will continue attracting patrons. Books like Elijah Muhammad’s cookbook series and “Holistic How-to-guide for ‘Cures’” will be purchased and NOI will continue profiting off Farrakhan’s scare tactics. As of 2017 it was estimated that Farrakhan alone had an estimated net worth of $3 million.

Over the last few years NOI has worked to reach out to top celebrity icons and engage with various artists in an attempt to entice a younger generation of potential NOI members. A quick look through Farrakhan’s Facebook page reveals his adoration for red carpet celebrities and he’s made it a point to highlight his encounters with stars such as Kanye West and Kim Kardashian, Chris Martin (Coldplay), Carlos Santana, T.I., Taraji Henson, DMX, 50 Cent, Kendrick Lamar, Dave Chappelle, 2 Chainz, Eminem, Migos, Ludacris, Charlamagne Tha God, Don King and even the late Fidel Castro.

Unfortunately for NOI, its efforts are tainted by a long history of racist and antisemitic rhetoric. Even prior to Farrakhan, NOI's characterization of whites as "devils" was unwavering. The seeds of antisemitism were deeply rooted in the organization, with Elijah Muhammad preaching early on about greedy Jews who turned Jesus Christ in to the authorities. Even during the early days of the civil rights movement, a period of collaboration between progressive Jews and blacks, Malcolm X had denounced Jews in the leadership of the NAACP and linked their presence there to the group's non-militant stance.

During the early 1980s, the deeply bigoted language for which NOI is infamous for today became daily fare, exacerbated by the charged atmosphere surrounding Jesse Jackson's 1984 presidential bid. Farrakhan made several of his most infamous remarks during the campaign, including calling Hitler "a very great man" and Judaism a "dirty religion" (some say he actually termed it a "gutter religion"). While these and other remarks ultimately spurred Jackson to publicly disavow Farrakhan, the controversy actually increased the NOI leader's visibility and appeal to many African Americans angered at the attacks on him.

Farrakhan's racist venom continued, to the point that in 1986 he was banned from entering the United Kingdom, where officials cited concerns for racial harmony. As of August 2017, the ban was still in place as Farrakhan was kept from making a speech over livestream at Kennington Park in London (officials citing restrictions as the reason for the gag order). He frequently reiterated the "dirty religion" theme along with references to the "so-called Jew" (arguing that the "true" Jews were black North Africans) and constant accusations of secret Jewish control of financial and political institutions. One of the most baseless attacks came in the form of a 1991 "study" ordered up by Farrakhan and written by NOI's "Historical Research Department." Entitled The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews, the book uses isolated examples of Jewish merchants' involvement in the purchase and ownership of slaves to place the onus of the slavery industry squarely on Jewish shoulders — a historical falsehood. The group has established what they call “The Nation of Islam Research Group” which serves as a blogging platform that ties together articles on current topics with an online store that sells NOI books. Both the NOI Research Group and Historical Research Department have been set up in hopes of lending credibility to NOI’s antisemitic claims.

Fortunately, the claims that are made in the book have been debunked on numerous occasions. Not long after the first book was published in the early ‘90s, Harvard University’s Henry Louis Gates, Jr., argued in The New York Times that “the book massively misrepresents the historical record, largely through a process of cunningly selective quotation of often reputable sources.” The article notes several other scholars who all felt the book was factually incorrect. The harsh critique from academic scholars hasn’t stopped NOI and Farrakhan from releasing a plethora of other works. In 2018, NOI’s influence is so great that DVDs, MP3s and books can be purchased from the various NOI-run websites as well as major retailers such as Amazon, Walmart and Barnes and Noble.

While Jews remain the primary target of Farrakhan's vitriol, he is also well known for bashing gay men and lesbians, Catholics and, of course, the white devils, whom he calls "potential humans ... [who] haven't evolved yet." All of this has helped make him attractive to certain white supremacist groups who agree that the races must be separated. In its turn, NOI has come to view white supremacists as people who at least understand NOI's program and could therefore become allies.

In one early instance, American Nazi Party boss George Lincoln Rockwell appeared at NOI's 1962 Saviour's Day Convention, christening Elijah Muhammad the Hitler of blacks. In another, Malcolm X, on departing from NOI in 1964, spoke of an Atlanta meeting (later corroborated by FBI records) between NOI and the Klan in an attempt to establish mutual working conditions. In more recent years, a yearning for racial nationalism has brought NOI other strange bedfellows. During the Jesse Jackson campaign, NOI was discovered by white "Third Positionists" (who espouse, among other things, radical racial nationalism) in the extreme-right British National Front, some of whom developed friendly relationships with NOI officials in the late 1980s before suffering a backlash from the rank and file who could not understand their leadership's cozy ties to American "niggers." Similarly, American neo-Nazi and White Aryan Resistance founder Tom Metzger has praised NOI's antisemitic rhetoric and has even donated a symbolic amount of money to the Nation.

During the mid-1990s, it seemed that Farrakhan was trying to moderate his message, reaching out to the Jewish community groups and more mainstream black organizations. But any such effort was thwarted by his own continued antisemitic remarks and those of his officers. In 1993, for instance, an attempt at reconciliation with the Congressional Black Caucus failed after the Anti-Defamation League published an article detailing a wildly incendiary speech by top NOI official Khalid Muhammad at New Jersey's Kean College in November of that year in which he violently bashed Jews, Catholics, LGBT people and whites. Similarly, although many local chapters of the NAACP endorsed the Million Man March where Farrakhan was the keynote speaker, the national organization refused to participate in any way.

In 2000, at the height of Farrakhan’s battle with prostate cancer, he announced that he would be working together with Wallace Deen Muhammad. His announcement was unexpected, as there had been a bitter rivalry between the two after Muhammad tried to take NOI in a more orthodox direction. Farrakhan claimed the two men were on good terms and attributed his change in attitude to his struggle with prostate cancer. The announcement might have given outsiders the impression that NOI was headed for change but the general hatred toward gays, whites and Jews continued.

During the 2008 presidential election, Farrakhan initially supported Barack Obama saying, “This young man is the hope of the entire world that America will change and be made better.” Obama responded by disavowing Farrakhan and the rhetoric of NOI against members of the Jewish community. In one instance Obama described the attacks on Jews as “unacceptable and reprehensible” and continued by stating “I have some of the strongest support from the Jewish Community.” Fast-forward to 2016 and Farrakhan would go on to criticize Obama for not doing enough to help the black community. In a 2016 speech Farrakhan condemned Obama for not earning his legacy with black folks, saying “We put you there… you fought for the rights of gay people, you fought for the rights of this people and that people, you fight for Israel, your people are suffering and dying in the streets. That’s where your legacy is!”

Later that same year during the presidential race, Farrakhan expressed his liking for Donald Trump. He carefully toed the line and just stopped short of endorsing Trump in the run against Hillary Clinton. At his Saviours’ Day event, he let his followers know that Trump would help push black Americans to the realization that it was time to break away from “White America”.

With the emergence of the racist so-called “alt-right” occurring around the same period, it wasn’t long before the two groups realized they had a lot in common. In fall of 2017, Farrakhan took to Twitter to express his thoughts on the separation of black people from everyone else, tweeting “Black People: We should be more convinced that it is time for us to separate and build a nation of our own.” In a matter of days, the tweet managed to get nearly 3,000 retweets with many expressing their support including prominent members of the "alt-right" movement. In one instance Michael “Enoch” Peinovich, an outspoken white nationalist and founder of “The Right Stuff,” retweeted Farrakhan and expressed his liking of the NOI leader, stating “I’ve always been a fan of Farrakhan Tbh.”

White nationalist Richard Spencer took things a step further and expressed his willingness to engage in conversation by retweeting and responding with the line “We in the Alt-Right are open for a real dialogue.” Jared Taylor’s American Renaissance account (now banned from Twitter) responded to Farrakhan’s tweet by extending an invitation to speak on the issue in public, “This is the sort of self-determination we and the broader Alt-Right support. Would you like to discuss this in a public forum?” Just a few days later in his keynote address at the 22nd Anniversary of the Historic Million Man March, Farrakhan responded to all the praise and said “Somebody told me that the alt-right, Mr. Trump’s people, had a tweet or something — ‘we kinda like what Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam is saying, we with them to separate in a land of their own.’ I said: very good, alt-right, y’all want to talk about it? Talking has been done, nothing to talk about because now it’s either separation or death.”

   145. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5667917)
Who?
Is this snark?
You are linking to a "news article" from the propaganda organ of a crazy religious cult.
Here you go. Read the bullet points and weep.
   146. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5667918)
SPLC on the NOI, Part 3 of 3:
Just as disturbing has been Farrakhan's willingness to tie himself to authoritarian and, in many cases, violently repressive foreign leaders for the sake of furthering black and Islamic administrations worldwide. Some of these former leaders include former General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq of Pakistan, Ugandan despot Idi Amin and former President of Zimbabwean Robert Mugabe.

NOI also had a deep relationship with Muammar Gaddafi that was built on the two’s shared ideology and dislike of U.S. foreign policy. In the 1970s Gaddafi loaned the Nation of Islam approximately $3 million to help the group acquire an old church on Chicago’s South Side that would become their flagship mosque. Then in May of 1985 Gaddafi gave a second loan to the group, this time for $5 million, for the purposes of helping establish Farrakhan’s “economic plan” which set up a “toiletry firm” in order to produce soaps, deodorants and toothpaste (these products can now be purchased online from the Ministry of Agriculture website). In 1996, Gaddafi made headlines again when he tried to donate $1 billion to NOI and another $250,000 specifically for Farrakhan as an honorarium. Officials from the Clinton Administration blocked the “gift” citing regulations that barred negations with Libya due to strong evidence that pointed to Libya’s involvement with terrorist activity. Farrakhan tried to argue that the money was for “humanitarian purposes” and claimed the money would be used to improve the lives of black people. To Farrakhan’s dismay, the donation was never approved.

Farrakhan has established close relationships with other extremist groups such as the New Black Panther Party (NBPP), which was led by former deputy Khalid Muhammad (who left NOI after his more volatile remarks were widely publicized) until Muhammad's death in 2001. Openly racist and violently antisemitic, the New Panthers have been denounced by leading members of the original Black Panther Party — men like Bobby Seale — as "a racist hate group." But that didn't stop Farrakhan from inviting former New Panther boss Malik Zulu Shabazz to co-convene NOI's 2005 Millions More March, marking the 10th anniversary of the Million Man March. Malik Zulu Shabazz left the New Black Panther Party in October of 2013, but the relationship between the NBPP and NOI hasn’t changed. In early 2018, current leader Hashim Nzinga expressed his appreciated for Farrakhan and shared a pic of the two on his Facebook page with the statement “The Most Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan has played a major role in my growth and spiritual​ development.”

Farrakhan has been suffering from prostate cancer, and weakening as the years pass. Nonetheless, it seems unlikely that NOI's legacy of racism will die with him. This is particularly true given that to this day, NOI members continue to promote racist and antisemitic ideas. A case in point is Ashahed Muhammad, a prominent NOI member and author of Synagogue of Satan, a book advertised on NOI's website that alleges, once again, a Jewish conspiracy to control the federal government. As a younger generation of NOI leaders rises to prominence, it is thus decidedly unclear whether NOI will be able to shed its legacy of hate.
   147. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5667919)
I did, and as I wrote before, "That's Amazon's issue, not SPLC's, which has long had this description of Farrakhan and his group."
No, Andy, Amazon Smile is on record as saying it relies on SPLC guidance.
   148. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5667920)
I'm pleased that she acknowledges the Holocaust and Stalin happened. You know, I'm sure your average Klansman acknowledges slavery happened.

And in both cases, that's more than you can acknowledge about Donald Trump's lifetime of racism.

If the shoe fits, wear it.
   149. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5667923)
I did, and as I wrote before, "That's Amazon's issue, not SPLC's, which has long had this description of Farrakhan and his group."

No, Andy, Amazon Smile is on record as saying it relies on SPLC guidance.


Then obviously they didn't ask SPLC about the NOI, or they were simply ignoring what SPLC wrote.** They may consult SPLC about some groups, but it's not as if there aren't competing groups that could override SPLC's documentation. There are plenty of misguided African American groups in this country who are as blind to the NOI's anti-semitism as you are about Trump's racism, and I'm sure they weigh in with Amazon as well.

** Is it now your opinion that SPLC didn't write what it did about the NOI, or that it doesn't really mean what it wrote? Maybe its president and leading public face are just self-hating Jews, is that it?
   150. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5667924)
It is only fitting that the new NRA president was a convicted felon, with one of the convictions for abetting the obstruction of a congressional inquiry.
   151. DavidFoss Posted: May 07, 2018 at 02:59 PM (#5667925)
If Blankenship wins then YC and JE will support him, right?

I found this great line on twitter:

"Blankenship 2018. Abuse the miners, not the minors."

   152. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:04 PM (#5667927)
Mexican culture cannot be reduced to tacos, oversized sombreros and piñatas.

Take it up with Big Alcohol, who turned Cinco de Mayo into Mexican Mardi Gras.
Thankfully Irish culture can still be completely reduced to alcohol, greedy leprechauns and green underwear.
   153. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5667928)
** Is it now your opinion that SPLC didn't write what it did about the NOI, or that it doesn't really mean what it wrote? Maybe its president and leading public face are just self-hating Jews, is that it?
I have no reason to doubt what you posted. Clearly, the SPLC didn't transmit its NoI concerns to Amazon Smile as it did for ADF.
   154. BDC Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5667931)
I'm not sure how much the Cornell-Michigan study that JE cites in #119 actually unearths. Here's the main finding:

For recycling, the “Cautiously Worried” reported significantly lower frequency of recycling than the “Highly Concerned,” who did not differ from the “Skeptical”; however, for public transportation, eco-friendly products, and shopping bags, the “Skeptical” reported significantly greater behavior frequency than the other two belief clusters.


For those four behaviors, "participants reported their frequency of engaging in the following activities (1 never – 4 every opportunity I have)." However, there's an assumption at work that I don't see examined: does everyone have the same opportunity to engage in those behaviors?

I.e. is "never" the polar opposite to "every opportunity I have?" In my case, I never use public transportation, and I also use it every opportunity I have – there being no public transportation where I live, every time = never. Similarly, I sometimes shop in places that don't carry "eco-friendly products."

There's also little discussion of what the heck an "eco-friendly product" might be. A lot of greenwashed stuff is bullshit, and really expensive in the bargain. Someone truly invested in the environment might avoid that stuff.

Anyway, there's less than meets the eye, as so often. There's also a principle in research that if you find something provocative or contrarian, it might be more publishable, and certainly more viable in the media, than something which finds the bloody obvious. "Environmentalists recycle a lot" is "dog bites man."
   155. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5667937)
Anyway, there's less than meets the eye, as so often. There's also a principle in research that if you find something provocative or contrarian, it might be more publishable, and certainly more viable in the media, than something which finds the bloody obvious. "Environmentalists recycle a lot" is "dog bites man."
Wow, BDC, you actually attempted to offer an analysis. Are you sure you belong here? :)

In any event, your argument doesn't hold much water, since more than one month since the study was published and the Washington Times is the only news outlet with significant readership to report on the findings.
   156. Lassus Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:15 PM (#5667939)
Wow, BDC, you actually attempted to offer an analysis. Are you sure you belong here? :)

He's an academic, he doesn't actually work. :-D
   157. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:19 PM (#5667944)
106

Some moderation is good though. This is a pretty moderation free place and I think at times it could benefit from some more organization. A lot of the threads get derailed.


Aaaah, those dear, dead ol' days in the early-'00s when nearly every thread on the Primer was subject to a Mets hijack...
   158. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:20 PM (#5667948)
110


Most of the festivities surrounding #CincodeMayo in the US are textbook examples of cultural appropriation, relegating the history and culture of Mexican people to novelty items. Mexican culture cannot be reduced to tacos, oversized sombreros and piñatas.


Or as I like to call it, "Mexican St. Patrick's Day."
   159. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5667949)
It is only fitting that the new NRA president was a convicted felon, with one of the convictions for abetting the obstruction of a congressional inquiry.


Hold up. Does that mean that Oliver North is the NRA president, but isn't allowed to own a gun?
Or were his convictions pardoned later?
   160. The Good Face Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5667950)
Thankfully Irish culture can still be completely reduced to alcohol, greedy leprechauns and green underwear.


"Reduced?"

   161. Lassus Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:23 PM (#5667952)
Trump has told WV GOPers not to vote for Blankenship. The tweet:
“To the great people of West Virginia we have, together, a really great chance to keep making a big difference,” Trump tweeted Monday morning. “Problem is, Don Blankenship, currently running for Senate, can’t win the General Election in your State…No way! Remember Alabama. Vote Rep. Jenkins or A.G. Morrisey!”

The response:
“The establishment is misinforming him because they do not want me to be in the U.S. Senate and promote the president’s agenda,” Blankenship responded in a statement. “Tomorrow, West Virginia will send the swamp a message: No one, and I mean no one, will tell us how to vote. As some have said, I am Trumpier than Trump and this morning proves it.”
   162. zenbitz Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5667953)
It's an interesting study to be sure. Unclear what the confounders might be. My first though was age or SES which was not reported but tracked. They are also 71% Democrats!

Isn't recycling basically mandatory (by local ordinance) or ~never done?

Also, most of these things (Recycling, using your own bags, buying "green") has any effect on Global Warming. Taking public transit probably does. But no one outside of major east coast metropoli* can use public transportation because it's worthless.


* exception: Chicago, and going to or from exactly downtown San Francisco.
   163. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5667954)
No, Andy, Amazon Smile is on record as saying it relies on SPLC guidance.


Amazon Smile is to Jason as "the Decline" was originally to SBB.
   164. DavidFoss Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5667955)
Washington Times is the only news outlet with significant readership to report on the findings.

I don't think the study is all that important. It seems designed to try to find hypocrisy in people who are not pre-abiding by laws that they are proposing before these laws even exist.

For a conservative view on environmental legislation, you should look up Greg Mankiw. He was CEA Chair during the Bush-43 years and he loves poking fun at liberals. That said, he's not a climate change denialist. He thinks the best way to lower carbon emissions is by Pigovian taxes. He's an economist and he knows that people are motivated by incentives. He's even got his own "Pigou Club" and he got a bunch of other pundits to join in the mid-00s. See his manifesto here.
   165. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5667956)
Read the bullet points and weep.


I've wept for your stupid ass as much as I'm going to. The Moonies published a troll piece to give back benchers like you a little virtue signalling reach around, and you lapped it up.
   166. Shredder Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5667958)
People actually engaged with the science as it currently exists are the most likely cohort to know that "recycling" isn't going to make a goddamned bit of difference.
I don't know if that's the inference I'd draw. I'm not going bother to read the study, because who really cares, but the idea of "reporting-individual-level-pro-environmental behaviors" strikes me as the equivalent to saying:
"whereas the ‘Skeptical’ 'Racist' opposed policy solutions but were most likely to report engaging in individual-level pro-environmental behaviors having a black friend” the researchers concluded.
   167. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5667959)
In any event, your argument doesn't hold much water, since more than one month since the study was published and the Washington Times is the only news outlet with significant readership to report on the findings.
Well, it also made fakenewsmatters.org.

Meanwhile, the Liberal Media can't stop reporting on the findings from the other dozen articles in that month's Journal of Environmental Psychology. One can only guess why they are ignoring this one.

Curious though, how many other Journal of Environmental Psychology articles were discussed by the Washington Times last month?
   168. BDC Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:31 PM (#5667961)
Isn't recycling basically mandatory (by local ordinance) or ~never done?

Yes, I'd imagine that's another factor. One's recycling behavior would be driven far less by beliefs than by access and/or mandate.
   169. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:31 PM (#5667962)
I've wept for your stupid ass as much as I'm going to.
Concession accepted, Swampy.
   170. Lassus Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5667963)
People actually engaged with the science as it currently exists are the most likely cohort to know that "recycling" isn't going to make a goddamned bit of difference.

I don't think this actually makes sense.
   171. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5667964)
"The Earth is fine. The people are fcuked..." -- George Carlin
   172. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5667965)
Assuming the Black Cube story is real...

Neri Zilber:
Black Cube op targeting former Obama staffers was allegedly about business dispute bw 2 shipping companies - 1 of which Taiwanese - involving Iranian sanctions regime. Per Israel Ch2 news
   173. perros Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5667967)
pervade their text. Intent on reporting the facts of life, the Cockburns bring to mind that threshold stage when children discover where babies come from. For the aspiring student of liaisons, dangerous and otherwise, this is, of course, an important discovery. But as any grown-up can confirm, it is barely the beginning of wisdom about how things really work.

I love being lectured by the grown-ups who brought us Judith Miller and the Iraq War, 'cos adults understand a free press really means parroting whatever line top government officials feed you.
   174. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5667968)
Given the family ties of the Cockburns**, there's enough to raise a red flag, but I think you'll need a bit more evidence than simply cutting and pasting a secondhand cutting and pasting of a GOP press release to say that Leslie Cockburn is an anti-semite. Do you ever cite independent sources?


In Juan's world it's fine to call someone an anti-semite based on iffy evidence, but in order to call someone a racist you have to catch him with a noose in his hand.

And, to preempt Juan, some Zionists are among the most racist of racists.
   175. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5667971)
Thankfully Irish culture can still be completely reduced to alcohol, greedy leprechauns and green underwear.

Add in music and potatoes, and you are covered.
   176. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5667972)
Assuming the Black Cube story is real...

Neri Zilber:
Black Cube op targeting former Obama staffers was allegedly about business dispute bw 2 shipping companies - 1 of which Taiwanese - involving Iranian sanctions regime. Per Israel Ch2 news
   177. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5667974)
Well, look who just blinked...

Rouhani: Iran could remain in nuclear deal if its interests are guaranteed

Boom.

EDIT: And... Trump tweeted that he'll make an announcement regarding the comically awful nuke deal tomorrow afternoon.
   178. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5667978)
Thankfully Irish culture can still be completely reduced to alcohol, greedy leprechauns and green underwear.


I always make a point of wearing orange on St. Patrick's Day.
   179. bookbook Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5667979)
Yes, if Iran gets what it wants (continued trade/economic development), it's happy to work with Europe to support the U.S. goal of self-isolating from the world community.

America First! Let's give Trump two Nobel Peace Prizes.
   180. Lassus Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5667982)
And... Trump tweeted that he'll make an announcement regarding the comically awful nuke deal tomorrow afternoon.

#AlwaysTrump
   181. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 07, 2018 at 03:59 PM (#5667993)
** Is it now your opinion that SPLC didn't write what it did about the NOI, or that it doesn't really mean what it wrote? Maybe its president and leading public face are just self-hating Jews, is that it?

I have no reason to doubt what you posted. Clearly, the SPLC didn't transmit its NoI concerns to Amazon Smile as it did for ADF.


Or maybe, just maybe, Amazon Smile gets input from more than one organization. What a shock that would be.

And upon further review, if you do what you suggested in #134 ---Go to Amazon Smile and type in "Nation of Islam." --- you'll find all of two (2) local NoI groups on there out of 110 listings, one of which happens to be the Zionist Organization of America!

The 2 NoI groups are the "Nation of Islam Prison Reform Ministry of Oklahoma Inc.", and the "Nation of Islam of Atlanta Community Education Center Inc." The national NoI organization is NOT on that list, nor are the hundreds of their other local affiliates. The other 108 charities that search brings up range from mainstream Islamic groups to the Interfaith Council of Greater Milwaukee to a radio station and the aforementioned Zionist Organization of America.

So building on this mountain of evidence, you and the Daily Caller and G*d knows how many other right wing websites are pretending that the SPLC is somehow soft on Farrakhanism. This is about par for the course for the websites you seem to inhabit these days, but maybe one day you'll break free from their spell.
   182. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5667994)
You'd think conservatives would be nicer to Jew-haters, considering that their party's candidate for the California Senate seat will either be a particularly open anti-Semite, or nobody at all.


Trump has told WV GOPers not to vote for Blankenship.


Early congratulations to Blankenship.
   183. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5667995)
Wow, if #181 is true, that's pretty damning.
   184. BDC Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5667999)
Well, look who just blinked...

Rouhani: Iran could remain in nuclear deal if its interests are guaranteed

Boom


Why is it "blinking" if Iran remains in the awful nuclear deal that they are supposedly blatantly flouting to begin with?
   185. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5668003)
Wow, if #181 is true, that's pretty damning.

The link works. Just type in "Nation of Islam" in the search box, as JE recommended, and you see exactly what I wrote. I'll be glad to FactCheck my comments against JE's any day of the week, but then I've got the advantage of not having to be sure that my comments don't deviate from today's Daily Caller talking points.

P. S. That last bit was hyperbole, just in case anyone thinks I'm trying to make a literal point. But it wasn't that hyperbolic.
   186. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5668004)
Why is it "blinking" if Iran remains in the awful nuclear deal that they are supposedly blatantly flouting to begin with?
The claim was that withdrawing from the nuke deal would trigger Iran to rush to build a bomb, thereby resulting in a shooting war.
   187. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5668006)
Why is it "blinking" if Iran remains in the awful nuclear deal that they are supposedly blatantly flouting to begin with?


Jason gotta gob that knob when its in front of him, bruh.
   188. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5668009)
Normal stuff from the President of the United States of America:
Lisa Page, who may hold the record for the most Emails in the shortest period of time (to her Lover, Peter S), and attorney Baker, are out at the FBI as part of the Probers getting caught? Why is Peter S still there? What a total mess. Our Country has to get back to Business!
   189. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5668010)
Hold up. Does that mean that Oliver North is the NRA president, but isn't allowed to own a gun?
Or were his convictions pardoned later?


Saved by the renowned leftist ACLU:

However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU),[28] North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized congressional testimony.[29]

   190. BDC Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:18 PM (#5668011)
The claim was that withdrawing from the nuke deal would trigger Iran to rush to build a bomb, thereby resulting in a shooting war

So (as with Trump's own remarks last week), the warrant here is that the Iranians aren't building a bomb anyway (thus the deal is working). So we're threatening to pull out of a deal because it isn't working, and the threats are successful because they're staying in the deal that is working … y'all lost me somewhere.

Now, I do understand that the initial objection to the deal is that we should have embargoed Iran forever (in which case they would certainly have built a bomb). But unless an embargoed, nuclear Iran was actually the preferred outcome, the deal can't be as bad as made out.
   191. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5668012)
The 2 NoI groups are the "Nation of Islam Prison Reform Ministry of Oklahoma Inc.", and the "Nation of Islam of Atlanta Community Education Center Inc." The national NoI organization is NOT on that list, nor are the hundreds of their other local affiliates.
In addition to those two, you missed Muhammad Mosque No. 7 in Harlem (only NoI's NY HQ), Muhammad Mosque No. 24 in Richmond, and Mosque No. 13 in Springfield, Massachusetts.

Additionally, Islamic extremist groups remain eligible at last check, such as CAIR and the Islamic Center of Jersey City.
   192. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:24 PM (#5668015)
Normal stuff from the President of the United States of America:


This is the answer to why Jason has gone all in on #AlwaysTrump.
   193. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5668016)
   194. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5668017)
The claim was


Impossible to discern for all of that meat in your mouth.
   195. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5668018)
Nothing like a little motivation, Andy, amirite?


Remember this next time Jason whines and trolls about "freedom of speech" when some conservative nutjob getting the short end of it.
   196. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:30 PM (#5668019)
So (as with Trump's own remarks last week), the warrant here is that the Iranians aren't building a bomb anyway (thus the deal is working).
The comically awful deal is so lopsided in favor of the Iranian regime that it makes sense for them to stick with it. The deal contains sunset clauses, meaning that the Iranian regime has a clear pathway to the bomb.
Now, I do understand that the initial objection to the deal is that we should have embargoed Iran forever (in which case they would certainly have built a bomb). But unless an embargoed, nuclear Iran was actually the preferred outcome, the deal can't be as bad as made out.
Cute, except the sanctions were working. We cast aside all of our leverage, including junking non-nuclear sanctions, in the desire to normalize ties with the terrorist regime.
   197. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:32 PM (#5668021)
Remember this next time Jason whines and trolls about "freedom of speech" when some conservative nutjob getting the short end of it.
Defamation laws: How do they work?
   198. BDC Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5668022)
The comically awful deal is so lopsided in favor of the Iranian regime that it makes sense for them to stick with it

Right, so the supposed "boom" of getting them to "blink" turns out to be no effect at all.
   199. -- Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5668024)
Lisa Page, who may hold the record for the most Emails in the shortest period of time (to her Lover, Peter S), and attorney Baker, are out at the FBI as part of the Probers getting caught? Why is Peter S still there? What a total mess. Our Country has to get back to Business!


Other than Twitter, what's the problem? Trump runs the executive branch and has every right to hold poor performers accountable.
   200. Stormy JE Posted: May 07, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5668025)
.pilF
Page 2 of 15 pages  < 1 2 3 4 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
HowardMegdal
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogSherman - Statistical Revolution Is Killing The Next Generation Of MLB Fans
(22 - 1:04pm, Sep 18)
Last: Sweatpants

NewsblogHow to fix baseball? Two ways MLB can improve its product without changing the game on the field
(34 - 1:04pm, Sep 18)
Last: Swoboda is freedom

NewsblogOTP 2018 September 17: How Brett Kavanaugh explains his baseball ticket debt
(614 - 1:04pm, Sep 18)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 9-18-2018
(35 - 12:56pm, Sep 18)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(721 - 12:54pm, Sep 18)
Last: PepTech, the Legendary

Gonfalon CubsThe Final Push
(91 - 12:40pm, Sep 18)
Last: Spahn Insane

NewsblogChristian Yelich makes baseball history with second cycle of season
(7 - 12:39pm, Sep 18)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogTaking Back the Ballparks - Los Angeles Dodgers
(13 - 12:34pm, Sep 18)
Last: SandyRiver

Sox Therapy11 Days Later
(61 - 12:26pm, Sep 18)
Last: SandyRiver

NewsblogOT - 2018 NBA Thread (Pre-Season Edition)
(330 - 12:25pm, Sep 18)
Last: jmurph

NewsblogOrioles match club record with 107th loss, 5-0 to Blue Jays before tiny home crowd
(24 - 12:03pm, Sep 18)
Last: Spahn Insane

NewsblogUmpire Laz Diaz Picks A Fight With Bryce Harper Out Of Sheer Ego
(27 - 11:55am, Sep 18)
Last: RoyalFlush

NewsblogMinor league baseball players exploring union as they continue to battle low wages
(7 - 11:23am, Sep 18)
Last: DL from MN

NewsblogOT - August/September 2018 College Football thread
(235 - 11:19am, Sep 18)
Last: dlf

NewsblogSabrblog: What a Drag it is Getting Old
(17 - 10:54am, Sep 18)
Last: dlf

Page rendered in 0.8032 seconds
46 querie(s) executed