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Monday, November 12, 2018

OTP 2018 Nov 12 - Why Voting Is Like Baseball (Hint: Both Matter)

Yes, political elections are never decided by one vote. But aspiring politicians look at the results of voting returns. If somebody is elected by a gazillion votes, politicians pay attention to this. Same thing if somebody loses but does better than expected.

Just as baseball teams copy what other teams have done successfully, politicians copy what other politicians have done.

Aaron Gleeman once said the difference between a 75-win team and an 80-win team is huge for free agents, and he was right, because free agents want A) money and B) the chance to win. They’re competitive athletes, they want to win, and politicians are no different.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 12, 2018 at 07:54 AM | 499 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   101. Jay Z Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:41 PM (#5786711)
Flip
   102. base ball chick Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:43 PM (#5786712)
david

i DID see the article about the Black security guard getting gunned down

i didn't post it because, hey, what else is new. police see Black man, shoot him down.
yawn
even if the guy is a security guard. Black = must be the criminal.

i keep pointing stuff like this out and all i hear about is me and my "race card"

i have 3 Black sons who are unfortunately, rather large, and people wonder why i am a nervous wreck about their future

as for the guns - well, i guess it kind of boils down to - only a WHITE "good guy" with a gun is OK. the rest must be terrorists or criminals

some stupid kid in a car pulled a gun on some other person in another car and got himself shot for being a dumbass. another day, another gun death, or dozens. Who cares
   103. Jay Z Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:45 PM (#5786713)
Michelle needs to understand that Melania has no questions for her because Melania is a #######. Someone new to a job that is a ####### is unlikely to have any questions about the job. Because they have no understanding.

Given the background of Melania I would not expect her to be equipped for her role.
   104. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:45 PM (#5786714)
i keep pointing stuff like this out and all i hear about is me and my "race card"


you black women really need to get over seeing race.
   105. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:45 PM (#5786715)
Looks good. I have a Roadtrek.


I was considering that one, but I opted for more room. I have about 2 feet of storage behind the back bench seat and that really comes in handy. Plus I really wanted the Mercedes chassis.
   106. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:48 PM (#5786717)
That's... not what she said. She said that she was receiving calls from outraged residents regarding the tax breaks that are being received by Amazon when NYC needs the tax money to fix things like the subway and other infrastructure.

Yeah, I missed that part on the headline but her tweets definitely don't sound like she is endorsing the move.
   107. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:49 PM (#5786718)
Michelle needs to understand that Melania has no questions for her because Melania is a #######. Someone new to a job that is a ####### is unlikely to have any questions about the job. Because they have no understanding.

Given the background of Melania I would not expect her to be equipped for her role.


I mean, there is no real First Lady role. If Melania stays married to Trump (which I assume she will because of the likely terms of the pre-nup), she is equipped for the role.

In the last few admins, FLOTUS has had some initiatives that they oversee, but generally they're pretty light. Traditionally office of FLOTUS also maintains the WH's social calendar. I assume that's still happening.

Like, Melania isn't really doing that much, but she doesn't really have to. There will be zero negative consequences for her being "bad" at the traditional roles that FLOTUS has taken up.
   108. Zonk is One Individual Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:51 PM (#5786720)
- i remember when dan used to be such FUN with a great sensa yuma. don't know what happened.
SAD

Since 2012, I've no longer needed to pretend to be nice to people who infected the site with politics for years or people whose religious bigotry chased away contributors (Lassus, I don't mean you here, I personally think OG read intent in your post that wasn't there). And it's wonderful that almost everyone I personally detest hangs out in these threads; it's remarkable efficiency. If only Murray Chass joined this site, I'd call it a royal flush (the bathroom kind).

I have *zero* compunction about being nasty to awful people like Sam or Andy or Shipman (I couldn't care less about McCoy but told an outright lie, which was too blatant to not earn a nasty remark). And when Sam one day threatens the wrong person with violence and the authorities research his background, I've saved the comment ID for every one of his violent threats I've come across, to aid Jim in cooperating with law enforcement (which is why I don't have Sam on ignore like shipman, who I accidentally saw while I was logged out a few minutes ago).

*You* tell *me* what's so funny and amusing about a poster who literally tells people that he disagrees with that he hopes their children predecease them so that they can mourn their loss? Or a poster whose anti-Mormon bigotry is so blatant, that one of our regular contributors no longer felt safe associating with the site (and a couple of other Mormon commenters that left, though it was more of a group thing rather than *just* Shipman). These are disgusting human beings who infect a site I used to care about; I have no motivation to mince words.


Well, on behalf of the OTP -

Apology accepted.
   109. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5786721)
(I couldn't care less about McCoy but told an outright lie, which was too blatant to not earn a nasty remark

Like I said you should have read more of thread. It was a joke post satirizing Ray's recent post that was addressed to me.
   110. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5786722)

Meanwhile, I must have rocketed up the BTF Mexican Death March Draft Rankings this weekend by completing a Spartan race in Fenway Park, demonstrating my speed, endurance, and wall-climbing ability. I failed the spear throw obstacle, which doesn't bode well for the rocks-vs-guns battle that will apparently culminate the march.

Nice. I did the one at Citifield a few years ago and similarly was able to complete everything except for the spear throw (although I don't think I saw a single person get that one).
   111. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5786723)
It's a bit morbid to pay a lot of attention to that particular shooting because it fits various narratives and is a bit "unique". It'll be about a thousand people by the end of the year. The Washington Post has some stats here, but how many are "accidents" isn't a number they have. 39 were unarmed, 49 have no data, and 29 had toy weapons - that might be a first order guess, but the bouncer wasn't in those categories, of course.
   112. Shredder Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5786724)
Oh, and it's cold in DFW too, though sunny for a change and really not too unseasonable. But La D. is having to cover some plants and wheel some into the garage at night, yes. Guess global warming was a hoax …
I'm in town for a conference (at the Anatole). We walked about a half mile to lunch today. It was brutal! Can't wait to get back to warm Chicago.
   113. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:58 PM (#5786725)
Or a poster whose anti-Mormon bigotry is so blatant, that one of our regular contributors no longer felt safe associating with the site (and a couple of other Mormon commenters that left, though it was more of a group thing rather than *just* Shipman). These are disgusting human beings who infect a site I used to care about; I have no motivation to mince words.


Just to respond to this again, I've never posted about the LDS on this site that I know of.

Dan is confusing/conflating multiple instances. In 2008, when California's Prop 8 was in the news, there was a thread where a few people made mild comments about the Mormon church heavily sponsoring the bill. Notably, I did not post in that thread!

Later, around 2012, Dan brought this up in an argument with someone (maybe Shredder), about how the folks in the politics thread drove people away from the site with their religious bigotry. I found the thread from 2008, linked to it, and summarized the supposed "anti-Mormon" comments. The posts were not made by anyone who posts in the politics thread, and I pointed that out, and the handle of the poster who was involved (they contributed perhaps once, and were not regular contributors to the site).

Dan flipped out and said that I doxxed the guy, that I was the worst, etc. etc. etc. He then posted the email this guy sent to him, where he said he was leaving the site out of an excess of caution and a desire to focus on his family.

Dan has then habitually lied about this incident and has conflated his earlier lie about me doxxing the guy with the original lie about people posting anti-LDS bigotry (which never happened). So this is a lie that Dan has been milking for 10 years now. That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about him.
   114. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5786730)
!!!!He gonna write down your comment ID now!!!!

   115. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5786731)
I was considering that one, but I opted for more room. I have about 2 feet of storage behind the back bench seat and that really comes in handy. Plus I really wanted the Mercedes chassis.

I went with the floor plan that eliminates the 2nd row of captains seats for an expanded bathroom & extra cabinet space. Wanted the gas model for keep-it-simple reasons, and found a good deal on a 2013 at the start of the 2014 model year. That Mercedes Sprinter van on the Airstream is pretty nice. Lots of trade-offs in a Class B.
   116. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:03 PM (#5786732)
I've saved the comment ID for every one


If you want your socks back, just ask.
   117. Jeff R. Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5786734)
I mean, there is no real First Lady role. If Melania stays married to Trump (which I assume she will because of the likely terms of the pre-nup), she is equipped for the role.

In the last few admins, FLOTUS has had some initiatives that they oversee, but generally they're pretty light. Traditionally office of FLOTUS also maintains the WH's social calendar. I assume that's still happening.

Like, Melania isn't really doing that much, but she doesn't really have to. There will be zero negative consequences for her being "bad" at the traditional roles that FLOTUS has taken up.


I mean, part of her pet initiative is to promote being respectful on social media. Coming from the wife of Donald Trump, that's pretty much telling the world, #### off, I have zero interest in doing this.
   118. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5786735)
Last Week's Big Loser: Donald J. Trump, for a slew of obvious reasons.
Last Week's Big Winner: Ray, for having his cretinous and petulant week of OTP work permanently deleted due to an adjacent explosion.
   119. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:06 PM (#5786736)
(and a couple of other Mormon commenters that left, though it was more of a group thing rather than *just* Shipman).


I thought the Mormons were doing away with the group thing.
   120. base ball chick Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5786738)
DJS and the World of Tomorrow Posted: November 13, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5786702)

- i remember when dan used to be such FUN with a great sensa yuma. don't know what happened.
SAD


Since 2012, I've no longer needed to pretend to be nice to people who infected the site with politics for years or people whose religious bigotry chased away contributors (Lassus, I don't mean you here, I personally think OG read intent in your post that wasn't there). And it's wonderful that almost everyone I personally detest hangs out in these threads; it's remarkable efficiency. If only Murray Chass joined this site, I'd call it a royal flush (the bathroom kind).

I have *zero* compunction about being nasty to awful people like Sam or Andy or Shipman (I couldn't care less about McCoy but told an outright lie, which was too blatant to not earn a nasty remark). And when Sam one day threatens the wrong person with violence and the authorities research his background, I've saved the comment ID for every one of his violent threats I've come across, to aid Jim in cooperating with law enforcement.

*You* tell *me* what's so funny and amusing about a poster who literally tells people that he disagrees with that he hopes their children predecease them so that they can mourn their loss


sigh
- nothing is funny about that at all

i really wish that everyone would pls try to use good manners at all times, but somehow, we all seem to turn into relatives who have had too much alcohol around the thanksgiving table (one of the reasons why the stuff is banned in our house)

2012 is the year we started seeing bigots oozing out of the woodwork when we had to endure another year of That Icky N-word as president. and somehow, too many insisted in coupling that in with laws that allowed hoomosexuals to be, you know, people, because they personally didn't like that homosexuals should be allowed to exist. and the country's general air of irritation just kind of oozed its way into here until things have gotten really, well, not good manners at all times

trust me, i understand anger at a lot of things that have been happening over the past 6 years. and unlike everyone else here, i am actually subject to the bad stuff that has been going down. sam is having a very hard time dealing with the fact that almost every relative and childhood friend has turned out to be a sexist, racist religionist and it is pretty tough to lose your own family like that

i love sam mah White brotha and that is how things are, but i too wish he would pls turn down the volume on the vitriol

- i Do understand righteous anger at false accusations (for example, i would be outraged if someone accused me of sexually assaulting bradley awesomeness) - it is not that i am brushing it off

but i do wish i could once more see the charming dan who was so funny and witty. i miss you boy
   121. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5786739)
Lots of trade-offs in a Class B.


Yes. Eventually it's going to be just the wife and I. But we have a 16 YO daughter who is coming with us on a week long camping trip on Friday*. It's going to be cramped as it is, with all the stuff we like to bring, and on our way back we are picking our son up from college for Thanksgiving break.

*She will have to sleep in a tent.
   122. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:09 PM (#5786741)
Dan has then habitually lied about this incident and has conflated his earlier lie about me doxxing the guy with the original lie about people posting anti-LDS bigotry (which never happened). So this is a lie that Dan has been milking for 10 years now. That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about him.


He is, in some ways, a more perfect Trumpkin than even Ray. He creates a false reality, becomes outraged by the false reality he has made up from whole cloth, doubles down on the falsity via the outrage machine, and then triples down again (and on and on, every so often) out of the basic theory that no one will bother checking to see if he's telling the truth. Dan's relationship to facts is very Donald-esque.
   123. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5786742)
Also, don't let the retroactive narrative about me or anyone else fool you. Dan became paranoid and angry about this site's non-sports related comment sections precisely when he got his first pay-for-play contract with a four letter network.
   124. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:12 PM (#5786744)
Here's the link to the thread where Dan loses his marbles when he gets called on lying.

It's from 2015.

I imagine this thread will also be deleted when Dan gets sufficiently embarrassed by his behavior.
   125. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:13 PM (#5786745)
i really wish that everyone would pls try to use good manners at all times


I was told that 2016's results meant we didn't have to be PC anymore. This is so confusing.
   126. Lassus Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:14 PM (#5786747)
Thanks, Dan.

Honestly, it COULD have been Dan, but I think it also could have been Sam.

EDIT: Oh, I guess it was Sam.
   127. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5786748)
Last Week's Big Winner: Ray, for having his cretinous and petulant week of OTP work permanently deleted due to an adjacent explosion.

What was the adjacent explosion?
   128. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5786749)
i really wish that everyone would pls try to use good manners at all times, but somehow, we all seem to turn into relatives who have had too much alcohol around the thanksgiving table (one of the reasons why the stuff is banned in our house)


Okay, fine, trying to bear hug multiple people at once isn't the greatest of manners, but it's all in good fun. I mean, until I tumble and they fall on me and gum up my hip. Yes, I'm getting old.
   129. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5786750)
*You* tell *me* what's so funny and amusing about a poster who literally tells people that he disagrees with that he hopes their children predecease them so that they can mourn their loss?
Nothing. There's no redeeming value.

Why you think that justifies you to be equally rude to other people is.... odd. If you think people shouldn't act that way, don't act that way (and help normalize it).
   130. Srul Itza Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5786751)
Yeah, I missed that part on the headline but her tweets definitely don't sound like she is endorsing the move.


I lived in Long Island City from 1981 to 1985. It was then one of the more affordable residential areas, with easy access to Manhattan. I even walked across the 59th Street Bridge a few times.

I don't know what rents are like now, but once Amazon opens, there goes the neighborhood.

EDIT: I just realized this was over 30 years ago. Old.
   131. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:22 PM (#5786755)
Nothing. There's no redeeming value.


Why so sensitive?
   132. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5786760)
Nothing. There's no redeeming value.

Why so sensitive?
LOL. I don't really *care*; I'm not that kind of snowflake. I just agreed that it wasn't funny.

You are under no obligation to provide redeeming value. Carry on.
   133. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:27 PM (#5786761)
Take the Mexico Hike.

Whether one of us could do it or not is a springboard for a potentially interesting discussion, which some tried to have, regarding the various risks and obstacles and so forth. I mean, not *that* interesting, but this is just an example. Most of us could handle the walking part - could we handle the pooping? Sleeping outside? Blisters? Sunburn? What are the parameters - could we have new shoes when we asked for them? Would we be safe from bandits?

Ray's haughty "of course I could do it, I go to the gym" was predictable given the Ray Persona.


That's not really fair to Ray. You could've also mentioned that he plays tennis twice a week.
   134. Lassus Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5786762)
It was then one of the more affordable residential areas, with easy access to Manhattan. I even walked across the 59th Street Bridge a few times... I don't know what rents are like now, but once Amazon opens, there goes the neighborhood.

Bloomingdale's flagship store management is having a drunken orgy about now. Easy access for execs over to there from LIC.
   135. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5786763)
That's not really fair to Ray. You could've also mentioned that he plays tennis twice a week.


I hear he's got calves the size of cantaloupes.
   136. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5786764)
LOL. I don't really *care*; I'm not that kind of snowflake.


So you're the sniffing kind?
   137. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5786765)
Trump announced the nomination to succeed Brett Kavanaugh on the D.C. Circuit:
President Donald Trump on Tuesday announced the nomination of Neomi Rao, an administrator with the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, to fill the vacancy left in the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals by Justice Brett Kavanaugh's move to the Supreme Court. The announcement came as a surprise to the attendees of a Diya lighting ceremony in the White House commemorating Diwali, the festival of lights celebrated by millions of Indians and Southeast Asians around the world. Her position at the White House agency tasked with rule-making makes Rao a powerful ally of Trump at the center of one of his core campaign promises: cutting excessive regulations from the federal government.

Yale undergrad, University of Chicago Law School; clerked at the 4th Circuit & Supreme Court; worked at the White House & Capito Hill; practiced law in the U.K.; and a law school professor. Good choice. More here.
   138. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5786767)
Who is Sean Ransom? That name doesn't ring any bells - did he use a different handle on the site?
   139. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5786769)
Who is Sean Ransom? That name doesn't ring any bells - did he use a different handle on the site?


Watch out! Dan's going to accuse you of doxxing him.
   140. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5786770)
She's right up David's alley. UNLEASH AMERICAN INDUSTRY! Just drill, what are they gonna do, stop you? Don't even bother with a tailings pond what are they gonna do, fine you?

   141. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:40 PM (#5786772)
Who is Top Secret McSecret Name?


A guy that decided to punt internet arguments for time with his wife and kids. So naturally, it's our fault.
   142. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5786773)
Watch out! Dan's going to accuse you of doxxing him.


In all seriousness, can someone give me the $0.05 version? I don't remember anything anti-Mormon on the site, or any regular posters who were out about being Mormons, for that matter. And I've been here since 2003-ish.
   143. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5786774)
I believe he went by s ransom.


And my best guess is that he is an adequate totem for which Dan can cudgel areas and posters that he does not like.
   144. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5786776)
former Justice Clarence Thomas clerks


Yup. Crazy person.
   145. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5786777)
I don't remember anything anti-Mormon on the site


Because there wasn't anything anti-Mormon. At best, there was a running dismissal of religious thinking by some of us, and a debate over how much money the Mormon church was pouring into denying same-sex couples marriage equality in California.
   146. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5786778)
McCoy, #127:
Last Week's Big Winner: Ray, for having his cretinous and petulant week of OTP work permanently deleted due to an adjacent explosion.

What was the adjacent explosion?

Whatever else it was that got the entire thread Thanos'd.
   147. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5786780)

That's... not what [AOC] said. She said that she was receiving calls from outraged residents regarding the tax breaks that are being received by Amazon when NYC needs the tax money to fix things like the subway and other infrastructure.
"Other people are telling me" is the same framing that Trump uses when he wants to make stuff up. Also, I'm sure AOC is economically illiterate and just doesn't like Amazon. But both of those things having been said, the criticism is valid. States should not give tax breaks to Amazon any more than they should build stadiums for sports teams.
   148. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5786784)
"Other people are telling me" is the same framing that Trump uses when he wants to make stuff up.



Yes, but it's reasonable for elected officials to represent the opinions of their constituents this way. Trump uses it when he asserts incorrect things as facts. If she was conveying that her constituents are outraged about Amazon receiving tax breaks, but Amazon was not receiving any tax breaks, nor was it even a real company, then the comparison to Trump would be appropriate.
   149. Jack Keefe Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5786785)
Hey Al did you hear about the cook in the Chinese restrant who kept poisning people. He showed a wonton disregard for human life. Haha Al.
   150. Zonk is One Individual Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5786786)
Well, all terrible people who lie or not -

This statement from FLOTUS' spokesperson would seem to confirm that the First Trophy Wife is behind the Bolton deputy ouster...

“It is the position of the Office of the First Lady that she no longer deserves the honor of serving in this White House,” Stephanie Grisham, Melania Trump’s spokeswoman, said in a statement, referring to NSC official Mira Ricardel.


Which... again, I guess I should be grateful about.

I think firing the NSA because the dude has a silly mustache is dumb, too - but I guess that's what I need to root for next.
   151. Zonk is One Individual Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5786788)
But both of those things having been said, the criticism is valid. States should not give tax breaks to Amazon any more than they should build stadiums for sports teams.


See?

Detente is possible across all ideologies...
   152. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:56 PM (#5786790)
Morally, if kids ain't wearing snow pants for Hallowe'en, it's barely even a childhood.


Do we know if Smitty* has procreated?
   153. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5786791)
See?

Detente is possible across all ideologies...


Witness Clapper and I doing the RV geek out.
   154. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2018 at 03:58 PM (#5786793)
In all serious, can someone give me the $0.05 version? I don't remember anything anti-Mormon on the site, or any regular posters who were out about being Mormons, for that matter. And I've been here since 2003-ish.


In 2008, when California's Prop 8 was in the news, there were a couple of threads that dealt with prominent Mormons. Posters expressed opinions based on that. Notably, none of the posters who expressed an opinion (Dr. Stankus, Jeff K.) were regulars on the OTP threads.

In 2015, Dan told a bunch of people that a poster "was essentially hounded from this site by anti-Mormon bigotry both targeted at him when he mentioned he was a Mormon and general bashing of Mormons as a bunch of homophobes."

I disputed this, linking to threads where discussion on Mormonism occurred, including stating the posters handles. Dan flipped out, said that I doxxed the guy (despite just listing his handle at the time). He also posted an email the guy sent him (this link is now dead), where the guy says he wanted to spend more time with his wife and kids and lay low.

Three years later, in 2018, Dan conflates the incidents and says that I was the one who posted "anti-Mormon bigotry."
   155. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5786795)
I'd like to see Dan post links the anti-Mormon bigotry that occurred.
   156. OCF Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:04 PM (#5786796)
From back on the last page:

Another sunny day here in Seattle. Jet stream is all ###### up over the N. Hemisphere right now, associated with the "artic blocking" phenomenon we're seeing more and more. Artic blast associated with this hitting the central US and NE now. Meanwhile here in the PNW the jet stream remains our friend as we get what might be a record 11th at least partly sunny day here on the 13th of November. Usually November is one of our most brutal months for any sort of sun with 80% or more days mostly cloudy.

Which means that it's not raining anywhere in California, and that we have Santa Ana conditions in SoCal and equivalent NE wind regimes further north. Which is why there are fires. We got one early rain episode this fall in SoCal - semi-tropical in nature, lots of lightning, about half an inch where I am, and that was a long time ago. No rain since then. Understand that it's entirely normal in SoCal to have no rain or almost no rain between April and October- but mid-November is getting pretty late. Last year, it was dry in SoCal until January, and we had a huge fire in Santa Barbara County in December. When the one (and only one) big rainstorm happened in January, it will forever be remembered as the Montecito mudslide disaster.

The "usual" would have the PNW quite wet in October-November-December, whereas in January-February, the storm track moves further south, with rain and snow in California while the PNW gets somewhat less wet weather as storms pass by to the south. At this point, I'm not sure we'll ever see that "usual" pattern ever again. Or as Jerry Brown said a couple of days ago, "This is the new abnormal."
   157. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5786799)
I think this is the 1st such event, but maybe not the last - Ocasio-Cortez Joins Pelosi Office Climate Change Sit-In:
Congresswoman-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez joined 150 youth activists in a Tuesday sit-in at House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi's Capitol Hill office, where the group called for congressional action on climate change. . . . Photos posted on Twitter showed members of the two groups lining the office and outside hallways. One by one members handed Pelosi's staff hand-written letters demanding climate action. U.S. Capitol Police say 51 of the protestors were arrested around 11:30 a.m. for "unlawfully demonstrating in the Cannon House Office Building." All were charged for crowding, obstructing, or incommoding.

Issuing subpoenas and sitting in at each other's offices should keep the Democratic Members of Congress in the news. We'll see if Pelosi has the balls to consider this when she doles out Committee assignments.
   158. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:08 PM (#5786800)
One of the side effects about getting more active about politics is that I'm about thisclose to actually reaching out to my councilman and state reps to get things done around me. Alas, my councilman is an absolute crazy-arse idiot who I can only hope gets voted out in 2020. There is a restraining order out on him, he might have one out on another council member, there is an ethics complaint that has been filed against him that has had to jump through so many hoops over the last two and half months, he's tried to hold secret meetings, he's accused everyone of racism, and he tends to yell a lot. Good times.


In terms of the ethics violation at the end of August he decided he was going to berate a city employee so she filed a complaint only to discover that if you don't live in the city you can't file a complaint. So they had to jump through a whole bunch of parliamentarian procedures that lasted numerous council sessions to change that rule. Once they did was it a go? Nope. It turns out the form you use to file a complaint is invalid so now they have to go back and create a new form that is valid. All so they can go tsk tsk to an elected employee and of course the council member is fighting this and is employing a lawyer. Which means he is going to fight this all the way to court so that the city then picks up his legal fees. Like I said, good times.
   159. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:09 PM (#5786801)
@PaulaReidCBS:
NEW from @MajorCBS: Under-staffed WH Counsel’s Office trying to recruit high visibility legal talent for impending House Democratic investigations. Also looking to place highly experienced lawyers in prominent cabinet agencies likely to face House Democratic inquiries. @CBSNews
   160. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:11 PM (#5786802)
The "usual" would have the PNW quite wet in October-November-December, whereas in January-February, the storm track moves further south, with rain and snow in California while the PNW gets somewhat less wet weather as storms pass by to the south. At this point, I'm not sure we'll ever see that "usual" pattern ever again. Or as Jerry Brown said a couple of days ago, "This is the new abnormal."


Indeed, it was the pineapple express we got a couple weeks ago that had it 60-62ish, windy, and extremely rainy. We have had one rainy day since then with sun and low clouds (marine layer) trying to push in. But because of the ridge off shore the air has mostly been stagnant and even the weak November sun burns it off by around noon. We have had the ridge pattern (high jet stream latitude wise) build before like this in early winter but I cannot remember it in early November. Usually as you noted it forms in January.

People like Cliff Mass do the average American a disservice when they write things like "we can't attribute this _____ to AGW". What they really mean is they can't give it a 100% causation, but that is quite different from what the avg American takes away from his writing and those like it. Like yourself and Brown I see AGW all over these patterns, the warm pacific blob keeps forming nearly every summer and the arctic blocking keeps getting stronger and more frequent for the Northern hemisphere's winter pattern.
   161. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:12 PM (#5786803)
I'd like to see Dan post links the anti-Mormon bigotry that occurred.

I'd like to see Dan strapped to a lie detector that activated an electric shock to him every time he told a lie about those "disgusting human beings who infect a site I used to care about".

But failing that, the best way to deal with Dan is simple: Ignore him and eventually he'll go away, just like SBB.
   162. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5786806)
NEW from @MajorCBS: Under-staffed WH Counsel’s Office trying to recruit high visibility legal talent for impending House Democratic investigations. Also looking to place highly experienced lawyers in prominent cabinet agencies likely to face House Democratic inquiries. @CBSNews


As a thousand woodies spring up over at Judicial Watch.
   163. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5786807)
We'll see if Pelosi has the balls to consider this when she doles out Committee assignments.

I think Cortez is adequately qualified to be part of the Easter Egg hunt committee. That is a thing, right? To be fair I would say that a huge chunk of congresspeople are only capable of handling that as well. But, yeah, I'm wouldn't exactly be thrilled if she got put on Ways and Means or Appropriations.
   164. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5786808)
As a thousand woodies spring up over at Judicial Watch.


Tom Fitton absolutely floors me everytime I watch him. It's like you know you're in the closet, right? So many types like him on the right.

I think Cortez is adequately qualified to be part of the Easter Egg hunt committee. That is a thing, right? To be fair I would say that a huge chunk of congresspeople are only capable of handling that as well. But, yeah, I'm wouldn't exactly be thrilled if she got put on Ways and Means or Appropriations.


She's starting to remind of the the Democratic version of Matt Gaetz. Although to her credit she doesn't have any DUIs like homeboy.
   165. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:23 PM (#5786813)
Although to her credit she doesn't have any DUIs like homeboy.


Neither does he. His state senator father got the charges dropped.
   166. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:27 PM (#5786814)
Issuing subpoenas and sitting in at each other's offices should keep the Democratic Members of Congress in the news.
As always, we thank Clapper for his diligence in bringing us the foolishness of Dems big and small.

Hey Clapper, what do you think about the White House yanking Acosta's press pass and the associated allegations by the Press Secretary, which she bolstered with the use of doctored video? Any comment?

How about the recent story regarding North Korea ramping up their nuclear capabilities, despite President Trump claiming that NK was "no longer a nuclear threat"?
   167. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5786816)
A followup on the one good thing that any of Trump's appointees has ever done:

Juul Will Stop Selling Most E-Cigarette Flavors in Stores and Halt Social Media Promotions
WASHINGTON — Facing mounting government pressure and a public backlash over the epidemic of teenage vaping, Juul Labs announced on Tuesday that it would stop selling most of its flavored e-cigarette pods in retail stores and would discontinue its social media promotions.

The decision by the San Francisco-based company, which has more than 70 percent of the e-cigarette market share in the United States, was made as the Food and Drug Administration moved forward with a plan to ban sales of flavored e-cigarettes in convenience stores and gas stations. The agency was expected to announce its formal plan, which also included stepping up the requirements for age verification of online sales of flavored e-cigarette products, later this week.

In recent months, the F.D.A. has mounted an increasingly aggressive campaign against the major manufacturers of vaping products that appeal to youths, focusing particularly on Juul. The company’s sleek product resembles a flash-drive and has been sold in flavors like creme and mango, leading public health officials to criticize the company and others for appearing to market directly to teenagers who are especially vulnerable to nicotine addiction. ...

Of course there's also this:
Caroline Renzulli, a spokeswoman for the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, called Juul’s announcement too little too late. “Juul’s social media marketing fueled its popularity with kids,” she said. “Now that it has captured 75 percent of the e-cigarette market, Juul no longer needs to do social media marketing because its young customers are doing it for them.”
   168. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:31 PM (#5786818)
It's bittersweet to see conservatives realizing that they'll soon have to let Hillary Clinton go (after all, Hillary did die at the September 11, 2016 memorial). It will never be as fulfilling after the transition to B-team monster Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
   169. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:32 PM (#5786819)
@PaulaReidCBS:
NEW from @MajorCBS: Under-staffed WH Counsel’s Office trying to recruit high visibility legal talent for impending House Democratic investigations. Also looking to place highly experienced lawyers in prominent cabinet agencies likely to face House Democratic inquiries.

The Trump White House is approaching the point where they'll be soliciting the very best people with "LOST CAT"-style flyers, taped to street corner poles and bus kiosks.
   170. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5786824)
Hey Clapper, what do you think about the White House yanking Acosta's press pass and the associated allegations by the Press Secretary, which she bolstered with the use of doctored video? Any comment?


CNN is suing the WH to get his access back. They have hired Ted Olson to represent them. Legal experts on both sides think they have a solid case.
   171. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5786826)
CNN is suing the WH to get his access back. They have hired Ted Olson to represent them. Legal experts on both sides think they have a solid case.


I think it's a solid case, but it's also a dumb publicity stunt. Acosta is not capable of being effective as a WH correspondent anymore. It's just kabuki for ratings on both sides.

Huckabee-Sanders revoking his pass is about getting a news cycle, and Acosta suing is about getting publicity. It's all dumb.
   172. base ball chick Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:39 PM (#5786827)
i hate that the us govt is a reality tv show

i hated reality crap the second it got started and i hate it more every day
   173. McCoy Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5786828)
Huckabee-Sanders revoking his pass is about getting a news cycle, and Acosta suing is about getting publicity. It's all dumb.

I don't even think it was about the news cycle. I think it was a simple act of petty vengeance. I'm pretty sure they have an us vs them bunker mentality going on inside the WH and they're quite happy finding any reason to draw blood.
   174. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5786831)
Assuming CNN wins, I'm sure Trump and Sanders will accept their public defeat calmly and rationally.
   175. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5786833)
I think it's a solid case, but it's also a dumb publicity stunt. Acosta is not capable of being effective as a WH correspondent anymore.
Of course this is true. Acosta is tainted, and no better than Lemon at this point. He can't be seen as an objective reporter.

The office of the Press Secretary has been a joke since Jan 21, 2017. Shame that Clapper is so very concerned with Dem dogcatchers when the integrity of the office of POTUS, and the nation, is in the poopchute.
   176. DJS Holiday-Related Pun Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5786838)
I'd like to see Dan strapped to a lie detector that activated an electric shock to him every time he told a lie about those "disgusting human beings who infect a site I used to care about".

You'd probably have been more employable in the last 25 years if blowing Isidor Stone wasn't essentially your résumé.

Ignore him and eventually he'll go away, just like SBB.

You're the expert; isn't that pretty much how your divorce went down?
   177. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:53 PM (#5786841)
Acosta is not capable of being effective as a WH correspondent anymore.


Agreed.

but it's also a dumb publicity stunt.


Strongly disagree. A message needs to be sent to Trump by a co-equal branch of Government that this behavior is unacceptable and will not stand. You can't have the President arbitrarily ban reporters and only allow access to ones he likes.
   178. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:57 PM (#5786845)
A message needs to be sent to Trump by a co-equal branch of Government that this behavior is unacceptable and will not stand. You can't have the President arbitrarily ban reporters and only allow access to ones he likes.
Of course this is also true.
   179. Shredder Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5786846)
In 2015, Dan told a bunch of people that a poster "was essentially hounded from this site by anti-Mormon bigotry both targeted at him when he mentioned he was a Mormon and general bashing of Mormons as a bunch of homophobes."
To clarify further, the poster asked to be removed from the site, because there were indications on the site (conversations and such) that he was Mormon, and he was concerned that he'd come up in searches by people who are not posters on BTF, and non-BTF people would find out that he was Mormon, and these people could do harm to him in real life. I can't vouch for the veracity of that claim, but he clearly DID NOT claim that anti-Mormon bigotry from BTF posters drove him from the site. Here's one of my posts from that 2015 thread (I don't know how to link to the post, but it's 4326). I mention a transcription and I can't for the life of me remember why I was "transcribing" and not copying/pasting, but maybe someone else remembers.
Ya know, I was going to let this slide, but I just can't: Here's Dan from a couple pages ago (my emphasis):
One of our best contributors to this site, a Mormon who had never gotten involved in gay marriage threads and never said anything about gay people, was essentially hounded from this site by anti-Mormon bigotry both targeted at him when he mentioned he was a Mormon and general bashing of Mormons as a bunch of homophobes. We had a good contributor who was *driven away* from the site solely by the hatred of some of the people in this thread (though not all) pretending they're all about tolerance.

So yeah, I take the vile hatred of some of the people in this thread very personally - you directly hounded one of *our writers* off the site with bigotry and that's something I will never forget or forgive. And I had to bite my tongue about how I felt about that whole sorry business for *years*. We essentially had to have a politics threads just to keep several of you from contaminating every thread with far left politics, something which was making people completely shun the site and drive away other contributors (though not with the same personal touch).

Now let's compare that to what this person ACTUALLY said to Dan and Jim. This is transcribed in its entirety, and again, the emphasis is mine:
This leads to a request. When I started writing for BBTF six or seven years ago, I was just out of journalism school. I used my real name because I wanted people to easily identify my writing in case I pursued a journalism career. Now I am involved in sensitive employment [REDACTED] – on BBTF (Ed. Note: It’s a product of the redaction, but I don’t think the author is suggesting he is employed by BBTF). Because of the hostility now rising against Mormons and my concerns that my employment and clinical relationships would be harmed if it is discovered that I am Mormon, I would like to ask you if you can my name erased from the BTF archive. I have never had this concern about the unpopularity of Mormonism before, but it is a strange time now.

I had nothing to do with what is going on in California (I live [REDACTED] and didn’t get involved) and my only statements on BTF were to ask that Mormonism not be scapegoated for what is happening there. I have made no statements against or have any problem with any other person or group (other than Retardo, back in the day, but that’s a different story). Nevertheless, I am very concerned. The present environment does not seem safe for a person from my religious tradition.

I changed my user name to make myself more anonymous (it’s [REDACTED]) but I’m not sure if this is enough to strike my name from the database. Is there anything either of you can do to ensure that there is no risk any form of harm because of my participation on BBTF?

Thanks for your attention to this matter, and thanks even more for what you both have done to help build BBTF. I look forward to continuing to contribute to its ongoing success.
Respectfully yours,
[REDACTED]

Can someone please point me to the language where this person says he was hounded off of the site by hateful bigotry directed specifically at him by other posters? Because I've read it about 20 times and just can't find it. Basically, this person was concerned that non-BTF people might search his name, find some of his posts on BTF, and discover that he was Mormon, which is something he didn't want to share with the rest of the world. I have absolutely no problem with that. I make absolutely no judgment with regard to the accuracy or the validity of the threat that this person felt. But there is simply no evidence whatsoever that this person blames anyone on BTF for directing hatred or bigotry towards him, and no where does he suggest hatred or bigotry from BTF posters is why he left (assuming he even left, which, it doesn't sound like he did from the last bit, but that's neither here nor there).

I reiterate my earlier statement. Dan is a liar, and he owes everyone here an apology. You may call that a personal attack. I call it a fact backed up by the evidence that he himself provided.
It's three years later. Dan is still a liar, and he still owes everyone an apology.
   180. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 13, 2018 at 04:59 PM (#5786848)
I'd like to see Dan strapped to a lie detector that activated an electric shock to him every time he told a lie about those "disgusting human beings who infect a site I used to care about".

You'd probably have been more employable in the last 25 years if blowing Isidor Stone wasn't essentially your résumé.
Seriously, can you guys just get a room, OT:MindlessRants, and give the rest of us a break? Please.
   181. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5786850)
I mention a transcription and I can't for the life of me remember why I was "transcribing" and not copying/pasting, but maybe someone else remembers.


Dan posted a screenshot of the email, so it required transcription.
   182. BrianBrianson Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5786851)
You can't have the President arbitrarily ban reporters and only allow access to ones he likes.


And yet, if you call everyone he throws out tainted and unable to keep working the beat, that's the outcome he'll get. The only way that doesn't happen is if Acosta goes back.
   183. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:02 PM (#5786852)
Seriously, can you guys just get a room, OT:MindlessRants, and give the rest of us a break? Please.


I don't like being libeled every time Dan gets off his meds. I haven't posted anything bigoted about Mormons on this site, and don't appreciate his careless dishonesty. I'm sorry that's inconvenient.
   184. DJS Holiday-Related Pun Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5786853)
Seriously, can you guys just get a room, OT:MindlessRants, and give the rest of us a break? Please.

Gotta get back to our regularly scheduled programming of Sam making violent threats, Shipman and YR being bigots, Zonk publicly reminding Clapper that he knows the latter's contact information, with the occasional spice of things like nominating Joe Kehoskie's page on Wikipedia for deletion out of spite, or calling Jason names.
   185. Shredder Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:05 PM (#5786854)
Dan posted a screenshot of the email, so it required transcription.
Figured it was something like that, but wasn't going to spend a lot of time looking for it. Thanks!
   186. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5786856)
It's three years later. Dan is still a liar, and he still owes everyone an apology.


Dan's really covered himself in glory in the last 24 hours, hasn't he?
   187. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:08 PM (#5786857)
And yet, if you call everyone he throws out tainted and unable to keep working the beat, that's the outcome he'll get. The only way that doesn't happen is if Acosta goes back.


Excellent point.
   188. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:10 PM (#5786859)
I don't like being libeled every time Dan gets off his meds.
To be clear, I didn't intend for that sidebar to be included. That seems a substantive topic, and the truth is important.

I was referring to posts that solely consist of suggesting vaguely plausible anatomical acts. By anybody.
   189. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:13 PM (#5786860)
And yet, if you call everyone he throws out tainted and unable to keep working the beat, that's the outcome he'll get. The only way that doesn't happen is if Acosta goes back.


Right, Acosta has to go back, and CNN has to quietly replace/promote him a couple months later.

To be clear, I didn't intend for that sidebar to be included. That seems a substantive topic, and the truth is important.


Thank you.
   190. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:14 PM (#5786861)
I'd like to see Dan strapped to a lie detector that activated an electric shock to him every time he told a lie about those "disgusting human beings who infect a site I used to care about".
You'd probably have been more employable in the last 25 years if blowing Isidor Stone wasn't essentially your résumé.

Seriously, can you guys just get a room, OT:MindlessRants, and give the rest of us a break? Please.

Sorry that you can't see any difference between noting Dan's serial lying and one of his typical personal attacks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't like being libeled every time Dan gets off his meds. I haven't posted anything bigoted about Mormons on this site, and don't appreciate his careless dishonesty. I'm sorry that's inconvenient.

Yeah, there seems to be a need here for some sort of equivalence between liars and people who call them out on their lies. Sort of like searching for equivalence between Donald Trump and Jim Acosta.
   191. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:19 PM (#5786864)
Yeah, there seems to be a need here for some sort of equivalence between liars and people who call them out on their lies.
Nope, just tired of posts that consist entirely of variations on "Go F Yourself". By anybody.
   192. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:22 PM (#5786865)
   193. Zonk is One Individual Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:26 PM (#5786866)
Gotta get back to our regularly scheduled programming of Sam making violent threats, Shipman and YR being bigots, Zonk publicly reminding Clapper that he knows the latter's contact information, with the occasional spice of things like nominating Joe Kehoskie's page on Wikipedia for deletion out of spite, or calling Jason names.



Anybody wanna trade?

Maybe we could do an OTP Yankee swap or something.

   194. DJS Holiday-Related Pun Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:26 PM (#5786867)
Just to clarify, YR hasn't necessarily been anti-Mormon, his bigotry is anti-Catholic, his behavior as such which mostly drove Snapper away.

Last time I posted a redacted letter about Shipman's behavior, Shipman and Andy tried to figure out and announce who it was. If Gormless & Bigoted want to reveal redacted information again, let them do the legwork.

At least, on some level, Sam is an *honest* sociopath. I can respect that.
   195. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:27 PM (#5786868)
The blue wave was big — and significant — in state legislatures

The key to gerrymandering!


Wasn't it Joy Behar who proved she was on autopilot, had already chosen her team, and therefore was not even thinking through the issues, when she said that Republicans had rigged the Senate elections through gerrymandering and that was the reason why they won the Senate?

"Gerrymandering!" ("Drink!") is the buzzword that proves Republicans are evil, I guess.
   196. tshipman Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5786869)
Last time I posted a redacted letter about Shipman's behavior, Shipman and Andy tried to figure out and announce who it was. If Gormless & Bigoted want to reveal redacted information again, let them do the legwork.


This is a lie, and I'm tired of you lying about me. I've posted a link to the thread. You can review it yourself.
   197. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5786871)
I don't remember anything anti-Mormon on the site


Hang on, I'll come up with something!

#### THE OSMONDS!
   198. Zonk is One Individual Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:33 PM (#5786872)
"Gerrymandering!" ("Drink!") is the buzzword that proves Republicans are evil, I guess.


No, it's Trump.

It's been Trump since the summer of 2016 and will continue to be Trump for the rest of our lives.
   199. Zonk is One Individual Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:34 PM (#5786873)
Just to clarify, YR hasn't necessarily been anti-Mormon, his bigotry is anti-Catholic, his behavior as such which mostly drove Snapper away.


Yeah, but I gave him my altar boy GOJF card... so he's cool.
   200. Ray (CTL) Posted: November 13, 2018 at 05:35 PM (#5786874)
Take the Mexico Hike.

Whether one of us could do it or not is a springboard for a potentially interesting discussion, which some tried to have,


Oh, really? I couldn't tell, what with all the high-five snark about tennis and the gym.

Those things were made to sound silly, but I was using them to make my argument, in an effort to have the discussion that you now blame me for not having. In order to do such a hike one needs to be physically capable and active, not a couch potato, not with significant health issues. I was trying to show that.

It turned out that there was no argument I could make that would have been acceptable to Andy and his cohorts other than I'd done it before. (And probably not even that argument would have sufficed - when you're dealing with intellectually dishonest people you get... intellectual dishonesty.) But guess what? Andy's Heroes haven't done it before either. Yet they were the only ones he would agree could do it.

So you can take your "Ray won't have a discussion" and stick it where the sun don't shine. You're only concluding that because of selective memory bias.

(At least it'll be amusing now to see another round of tennis and gym circle jerks from the idiots who simply aren't capable of intellectual discussion, so I guess revisiting this dead issue won't be for naught.)
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