Last time I posted a redacted letter about Shipman's behavior, Shipman and Andy tried to figure out and announce who it was. If Gormless & Bigoted want to reveal redacted information again, let them do the legwork.

*You* tell *me* what's so funny and amusing about a poster who literally tells people that he disagrees with that he hopes their children predecease them so that they can mourn their loss?

People unfriend Trump supporters. Now, obviously that's their right but it seems a bit incongruous to unfriend Trump supporters but to not unfriend people who hope those who disagree with them get cancer and have to suffer through rounds of chemo while watching their children die before dying themselves.

Michelle needs to understand that Melania has no questions for her because Melania is a #######. Someone new to a job that is a ####### is unlikely to have any questions about the job. Because they have no understanding.

Given the background of Melania I would not expect her to be equipped for her role.

This is the fiction of First Ladies. (Or First Husband when that comes to pass. Or First Spouse or whatever.) There is no "job." It's a ceremonial ribbon cutting role. The country elects a president. It doesn't elect a First Spouse. And the First Spouse doesn't do anything important.

This is the fiction of First Ladies. (Or First Husband when that comes to pass. Or First Spouse or whatever.) There is no "job." It's a ceremonial ribbon cutting role. The country elects a president. It doesn't elect a First Spouse. And the First Spouse doesn't do anything important.

I learned my lesson about how shameless you two were, which is why the actual letter I posted back then will not be posted again. At that point, I thought you two had a shred of human decency.

It turned out that there was no argument I could make that would have been acceptable to Andy and his cohorts other than I'd done it before. (And probably not even that argument would have sufficed - when you're dealing with intellectually dishonest people you get... intellectual dishonesty.) But guess what? Andy's Heroes haven't done it before either. Yet they were the only ones he would agree could do it.

So you can take your "Ray won't have a discussion" and stick it where the sun don't shine. You're only concluding that because of selective memory bias.

I mean, there is no real First Lady role. If Melania stays married to Trump (which I assume she will because of the likely terms of the pre-nup), she is equipped for the role.

I learned my lesson about how shameless you two were, which is why the actual letter I posted back then will not be posted again. At that point, I thought you two had a shred of human decency.

The tennis/gym stuff became a thing because that was *all* you offered when issues like dysentery and bandits and sleeping conditions and whatever else was brought into the conversation.

The tennis/gym stuff became a thing because that was *all* you offered when issues like dysentery and bandits and sleeping conditions and whatever else was brought into the conversation. No one questioned your physical fitness/ability to actually walk 1000 miles, they questioned whether you'd thought through the rest of it. And you came back with a shrug, at most, suggesting your tennis acumen would protect you, or something.

You only think that was all I offered, because you ignored my argument, or (I don't mean this in a derogatory way) you didn't understand it. I argued that if a few thousand random young-ish people in a corner of the world with no training could do it, then so could I.

You only think that was all I offered, because you ignored my argument, or (I don't mean this in a derogatory way) you didn't understand it. I argued that if a few thousand random young-ish people in a corner of the world with no training could do it, then so could I.

Earlier, a Honduran man in the caravan died when he fell from a platform truck in the Mexican state of Chiapas.

The problem was that your argument completely ignored why someone would do it. I could go back and quote - but I presume "on a lark" would a fair summary of the why.

The latest believable info I can find suggests they're getting some rides, but there's still a long way to go. Are you still completely confident you'd be in the 10% or so of those that make it?

What makes you so sure you're immune to stuff like this?

The tennis/gym stuff became a thing because that was *all* you offered when issues like dysentery and bandits and sleeping conditions and whatever else was brought into the conversation.

You can't have the President arbitrarily ban reporters and only allow access to ones he likes.

The problem was that your argument completely ignored why someone would do it. I could go back and quote - but I presume "on a lark" would a fair summary of the why.

That would indeed be a fair summary.

As a legal matter, it's not clear to me that this is true.

First Amendment expert Floyd Abrams said Sunday that CNN “should sue” the White House for revoking the press credentials of correspondent Jim Acosta.

It would be a “really strong lawsuit,” the attorney told Brian Stelter on CNN’s “Reliable Sources.” Abrams referred to a case in which the White House revoked credentials in the 1970s. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled then that the White House must provide notice in such a case, as well as an opportunity for a journalist to respond and a written opinion from the White House explaining its reasoning that a court can examine.

“We’ve had none of those things here,” Abrams explained.

The problem was that your argument completely ignored why someone would do it. I could go back and quote - but I presume "on a lark" would a fair summary of the why.

That would indeed be a fair summary.

I'd like to see Dan strapped to a lie detector that activated an electric shock

whereas in this case, Acosta is not allowed at press conferences, but nobody has been ordered not to speak with him.

I'd like to see Dan strapped to a lie detector that activated an electric shock to him every time he told a lie about those "disgusting human beings who infect a site I used to care about".

You'd probably have been more employable in the last 25 years if blowing Isidor Stone wasn't essentially your résumé.

Why does it matter whether Ray or anyone else here could complete the caravan walk? What is the point of that discussion?

It's three years later. Dan is still a liar, and he still owes everyone an apology.

Dan's really covered himself in glory in the last 24 hours, hasn't he?

A question which I don't think Andy (who I think posed the original "challenge") ever answered: Why does it matter whether Ray or anyone else here could complete the caravan walk? What is the point of that discussion? I mean, I find it kind of interesting as a person who has done a lot of hiking and endurance sports, but I don't think it's relevant to any of the political discussions we were having.

Well, sure, if walking 1000 or 1700 miles of the Mexican countryside were like walking 1000 or 1700 miles in a long lasting Indian Summer in Central Park, with plenty of Porta-Johns and food and water vendors along the way, and if you could sleep in a comfortable bed every night, I'd have to reconsider my skepticism.

Just to clarify, YR hasn't necessarily been anti-Mormon, his bigotry is anti-Catholic, his behavior as such which mostly drove Snapper away.

Why does it matter whether Ray or anyone else here could complete the caravan walk? What is the point of that discussion? I mean, I find it kind of interesting as a person who has done a lot of hiking and endurance sports, but I don't think it's relevant to any of the political discussions we were having.

"In that thread, there was overwhelming hostility and hatred toward Mormons. One poster early in the said he was going to desecrate Mormon graves. No other poster indicated any disagreement with the sentiment, and many used hostile and demeaning terms toward Mormons generally."

[...]

"Because of the hostility now rising against Mormons and my concern that my employment and clinical relationships would be harmed if it discovered that I am Mormon, I would like to ask you if you can have my name erased from the BTF archive."

But failing that, the best way to deal with Dan is simple: Ignore him and eventually he'll go away, just like SBB.

I redacted what I could and left out every section that had information that could lead to the poster. This was in response to Shipman calling me a liar that a prominent BTF individual left because he was uncomfortable with the hostility towards his religion on BTF and being connected with BTF. I assumed -- obviously wrongly -- that Shipman would accept that, whether right or wrong, someone who was a Mormon felt that way about how the Mormon religion was treated on the site. His response was to double-down and try and figure out who it was, because this individual did not participate in political threads, as a general rule.

Shipman can talk big, but I *knew* what was in the threads we had to remove because of this disgusting behavior as does Jim.

The office of the Press Secretary has been a joke since

I argued that if a few thousand random young-ish people in a corner of the world with no training could do it, then so could I.

"In that thread, there was overwhelming hostility and hatred toward Mormons. One poster early in the said he was going to desecrate Mormon graves. No other poster indicated any disagreement with the sentiment, and many used hostile and demeaning terms toward Mormons generally."

Andy made a comment that in his opinion, no one who posts here would complete the journey that the caravaners had just started.* Ray, in his typical Rayness, haughtily jumped in and said "I could. I go to the gym and play tennis twice a week." and we were off to the races.

*Which I agree was hyperbole at best.

But there's still well more than enough casual Mormon-hatred, expressed gleefully and profusely, for me to be furious about it.

As a legal matter, it's not clear to me that this is true.

Floyd Abrams disagrees

Do you guys have the original quote? I thought someone had said "Someone from BTF could do that" or something to that effect.

A question which I don't think Andy (who I think posed the original "challenge") ever answered: Why does it matter whether Ray or anyone else here could complete the caravan walk?

In that case, I can only offer my sincere apology. I did not see the initial Ray post and I took the post at face value. I jumped too quickly to a conclusion

The Hoarse Whisperer
‏

@HoarseWisperer
8m8 minutes ago
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All of these mysterious Twitter blackouts on the right...

The smart crooks are about to abandon Trump.

The dumb crooks are worried they’re already caught.

So, Fox News will pivot. The Enquirer will get lit up by Mueller.

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I'll bet if you set every able-bodied and well-nourished Primate on a 1,000 mile hike through Mexico, not a single damn one of them would make it to the finish line.

I sure as #### couldn't walk 1000 miles right now and I honestly don't think I could even when I was in better shape and played sports

1390. Traderdave Posted: October 25, 2018 at 04:48 PM (#5775338)

I'll bet if you set every able-bodied and well-nourished Primate on a 1,000 mile hike through Mexico, not a single damn one of them would make it to the finish line. Anyone here think they'd be an exception?

Into my mid 30's I think I could have. Now? No way in hell.

1411. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 25, 2018 at 05:14 PM (#5775364)

I'll bet if you set every able-bodied and well-nourished Primate on a 1,000 mile hike through Mexico, not a single damn one of them would make it to the finish line. Anyone here think they'd be an exception?

IDK, I ran a marathon 2 weeks ago. If you dropped me in the middle of the Copper Canyon by myself with no food or water I'm pretty sure I wouldn't make it out alive. If I was walking along major roads as part of a 7,000-person caravan and could buy/receive supplies along the way, I'm pretty confident I'd make it.

1419. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 25, 2018 at 05:28 PM (#5775373)

I'll bet if you set every able-bodied and well-nourished Primate on a 1,000 mile hike through Mexico, not a single damn one of them would make it to the finish line. Anyone here think they'd be an exception?

As was noted earlier that would depend on the pace I'd be expected to keep. I hiked the Grand Canyon this summer without much trouble (ended up losing a toenail in the process which was pretty unexpected, but it didn't hurt). I did a 7-mile hike to 13,000 with a 4000 foot gain a few years back and that was pretty brutal mainly because at altitude you can't "catch your breath" so resting is pretty worthless as you ascend.

I'm pretty sure I could roll out of bed and do 12 miles on foot tomorrow, but I wouldn't commit to any more in a day than that.

When you're dealing with intellectually dishonest people you get... intellectual dishonesty. .........So you can take your "Ray won't have a discussion" and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Right, that's probably where most of us are. No doubt a percentage of Primates are perfectly capable of doing the walk. In a vacuum.

But they're not in a vacuum, they're motivated by fear, and that's keeping them going through not just the walking, but the crappy conditions and all the rest. Ray doesn't factor any of that; that real people will die, and 90% of them will drop out, and that the "it" that was originally meant in "no one could do it" meant actually living their world and needing to make such a journey. To Ray "it" is just a lark, an intellectual walk in the park. That's not meant as a criticism, just an observation.

1402. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 25, 2018 at 05:01 PM (#5775352)

I've known people who have done half the Appalachian Trail (roughly 1,000 tough miles), and one was older than me and not in as good of shape. I'm in my 40s and what I would call 'decent' shape. So physically I would guess for most here it's possible, though injuries would be a factor. But..

A lot of it comes down to mentality. A lot of guys in amazing shape don't finish the ATrail (roughly 10-20% make it) because they just get worn out mentally.

Us cushy people on BTF probably don't have the mentality, and I'm not sure I do either. Maybe. Someone looking to escape to a better life? More likely.

The motivation is certainly there, but we're still talking about a thousand ####### miles.

Someone mentioned that Mattis was a good pick. I don’t know, maybe he is maybe he isn’t but what I do know is he played along with the caravan farce and even made a statement of something to the effect that the us military doesn’t do publicity stunts.

Sure but he still lied and he is in fact putting American soldiers in harm’s way for a get out the vote stunt.

In heavily Republican Bay County, however, election supervisor Mark Andersen acknowledged Monday that he had allowed some voters to cast their ballots over email, which is not allowed under state law.

Bay County was hit hard by Hurricane Michael on Oct. 10, and Scott issued an executive order on Oct. 18 extending early voting and expanding more voting locations in the eight affected counties. His order, The Associated Press reports, explicitly prohibited votes being returned by email or fax. Andersen defended his decision to let 150 people scan their ballots and email them in, telling NBC affiliate WJHG/WECP, "If you want to turn around and take away these votes away from voters because it's not the normal prescribed issue, I would just say you ought to be ashamed of yourself because what we did is take care of voters."

he is in fact putting American soldiers in harm’s way for a get out the vote stunt.

It's a legal order. He has no choice but to obey. And what potential harm are they in? Surely not from rock throwing migrants.

#### THE OSMONDS!

If the rock throwers are too far away to reach the soldiers - sure.

Otherwise... not so much.

Pro-gun election spending, 2014: $27.8 million
Pro-gun election spending, 2018: $9.4 million and outspent by gun control groups

A decade ago, many Democrats in numerous red states sought the NRA's endorsement. This year: three did.

Even the above argument revises history. I posted Andy's initial challenge above. It had nothing to do with all of these other factors that people started citing later about "motivation," that you're now obsessed with. The challenge I responded to was purely about the physical conditions

Also, let's not forget that before I was mocked for saying I could, others said they could do it (or could have when they were younger) -- including YR before he saw the trolling opportunity to mock me instead

Those are the questions you should have asked *before* you blithely asserted you'd have no problem with the 1000 mile hike.

Why? I can do the hike under whatever the conditions are.

Andy made a comment that in his opinion, no one who posts here would complete the journey that the caravaners had just started.* Ray, in his typical Rayness, haughtily jumped in and said "I could. I go to the gym and play tennis twice a week." and we were off to the races.

*Which I agree was hyperbole at best.

Also, let's not forget that before I was mocked for saying I could, others said they could do it (or could have when they were younger) -- including YR before he saw the trolling opportunity to mock me instead:

As was noted earlier that would depend on the pace I'd be expected to keep.

I hiked the Grand Canyon this summer without much trouble (ended up losing a toenail in the process which was pretty unexpected, but it didn't hurt). I did a 7-mile hike to 13,000 with a 4000 foot gain a few years back and that was pretty brutal mainly because at altitude you can't "catch your breath" so resting is pretty worthless as you ascend.

I'm pretty sure I could roll out of bed and do 12 miles on foot tomorrow, but I wouldn't commit to any more in a day than that

I thought it was nasty, beyond the pale comments about Snapper effort to reproduce that got him to quit OTP

Talk about revising history. Read #256, then read it again. We'll wait.

Why? I can do the hike under whatever the conditions are.

*THAT* is what you were then mocked for.

Oh, and route changes that now have added 700 more miles to the originally planned 1000. I just posted that story a day or three ago, and got no response to it.

There's nothing in the lives of anyone here that would have prepared them to finish such an ordeal. The only thing that enables a handful of the original marchers to make it to the border is the fear of the alternative: Predatory gangs; psychotic spouses; etc.

Regardless if nobody is making it to the border I'll agree I can't either. But your contention has not been that. Your contention has been that many of them _will_ do it -- but that nobody on BBTF could.