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Monday, October 15, 2018

OTP 2018 October 15: The shift in focus from sport to politics

Since I’m hinting at it, here’s my shameless plug: if you can sit through four hours of football and its stoppage time, you can’t justify calling baseball boring. October belongs to America’s pastime. I feel that this whole landscape will look different a decade from now, with football at the lower half of the totem pole.

My opinion isn’t entirely biased. This issue with politics bleeding into the discussion is a serious crutch for an otherwise praised NFL, and until that’s no longer a factor, people are going to shift away. The NBA waters are nice these days too, I’m hearing.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 15, 2018 at 08:26 AM | 1522 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   101. Dromedary pretzels, only half a dinar (CoB). Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:24 PM (#5767290)
floop
   102. BrianBrianson Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:26 PM (#5767293)
She presented the evidence that showed her to be a liar. I'm at a loss as to why you think that helps her.

Even accepting the results at face value, as I understand it she's at best 1/64th Native American and at worst much, much lower than that, on the order of 1/1000th.


No, she claimed that she understood herself to be ~1/32nd Native, which is at at the top end of what the tests show.

Well, everyone is 1/64th or 1/1000th of something; that's not reason to claim a benefit based on it -- indeed, it makes one a liar to do so


For starters, my sister did a DNA test, and we're 100% white people of European descent. But, again, the assertion that she claimed any benefit from it is entirely without evidence. So, if one is an evidence based thinker, it's hard to take as a given something there's no evidence for. For instance, you assert

The issue is whether she tried to gain an unfair advantage through these things. And she did.


But there's no evidence that this is true. All we have is your masterbatory desire that it be true.
   103. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:31 PM (#5767299)
The issue is whether she tried to gain an unfair advantage through these things. And she did.

But there's no evidence that this is true. All we have is your masterbatory desire that it be true.

The funniest thing about Ray's #95 is the implied argument that Harvard should release their hiring records with respect to Warren, or otherwise we should assume Warren is lying when she said she was hired strictly on her merits. What's funny about it is that this is the same Ray who's insisted that Trump has no obligation to release his tax returns.
   104. Ray (CTL) Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:31 PM (#5767301)
Fish in a barrel on Hillary's latest Monica comments. Why bother.
   105. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5767303)
But there's no evidence that this is true. All we have is your masterbatory desire that it be true.


Shorter Ray: Any claim by a D or pro D is to be interpreted against them by the greatest extent possible. Any claim by a R or pro R is to be interpreted for them to the greatest extent possible.
   106. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5767310)
Fish in a barrel on Hillary's latest Monica comments. Why bother.


Why indeed.

Let's just save the question and ask again when you, Clapper, or whomever ultimately do end up bothering.
   107. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:36 PM (#5767311)
Fish in a barrel on Hillary's latest Monica comments. Why bother.

Oh, but you'll manage somehow.
   108. Ray (CTL) Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5767314)
Has Andy ever intelligently argued a point?
   109. BrianBrianson Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:37 PM (#5767315)
Fish in a barrel on Hillary's latest Monica comments. Why bother.


You didn't use a question mark, but I'll assume the answer is "because it causes you to have bone shattering orgasms".
   110. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:38 PM (#5767316)
Has Andy ever intelligently argued a point?


Probably not, but he's hardly the only one to dispute you on this issue, speaking of fish in a barrel.
   111. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:42 PM (#5767319)

Mohamad Bazzi
‏Verified account @BazziNYU

Saudi media is putting citizens on notice as Khashoggi crisis grows: “Sharing or spreading rumors or fake news that might affect public order and security is considered cybercrime punishable by 5-year imprisonment and SR 3 million fine”
   112. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:45 PM (#5767321)
Mohamad Bazzi
‏Verified account @BazziNYU

Saudi media is putting citizens on notice as Khashoggi crisis grows: “Sharing or spreading rumors or fake news that might affect public order and security is considered cybercrime punishable by 5-year imprisonment and SR 3 million fine”


I can't believe there are so called patriotic Americans who believe that America's interests lie more with Saudi Arabia than Iran in the future. SA needs to be cut off like a gangrenous limb. That ###### up theocracy has no place among the commonwealth of nations.
   113. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 15, 2018 at 10:58 PM (#5767335)
Has Andy ever intelligently argued a point?

Have you ever posed a serious question, as opposed to regurgitating right wing talking points of zero importance to anyone outside of Fox News Nation?
   114. Ray (CTL) Posted: October 15, 2018 at 11:14 PM (#5767357)
Has Andy ever intelligently argued a point?

Have you ever posed a serious question,


The question you quoted.
   115. zenbitz Posted: October 15, 2018 at 11:17 PM (#5767360)
Lemme just help you out Ray. Hillary's comments were reprehensible. Like 0.25 on the trumpometer.

   116. Laser Man Posted: October 15, 2018 at 11:33 PM (#5767364)
I note by the way that Harvard still has not released their hiring records with respect to her
Here are two posted documents related to Warren's time at Harvard. One shows that her classification was changed to Native American in 1995, almost three years after she was hired. The second is a signed letter from the Registrar's office that shows that her status was changed to Native American when Harvard was compiling its Affirmative Action report in 1995, again well after she was hired by Harvard.

Harvard Personnel File
Harvard Registrar

There are also numerous stories from the time of her hiring from the Boston Globe, Penn Law Review, Harvard Law Review, and Harvard Crimson that discuss her hiring in terms of adding women to the faculty. Several of these articles worry that Harvard still does not have enough minority representation in its faculty. So it seems likely that Warren was hired without her claiming any special status, and then later on, Harvard used her small Native American heritage to try to boost its own diversity profile. It's not clear that Warren ever tried to benefit from her status.
   117. Lassus Posted: October 15, 2018 at 11:34 PM (#5767365)
It's not clear that Warren ever tried to benefit from her status.

It is to Ray and Dilbert and Trump.
   118. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 15, 2018 at 11:40 PM (#5767366)
Sears files for bankruptcy... surprising no one, I'm sure - and the bigger surprise will be if they ultimately emerge from bankruptcy rather than just liquidating.

Biggest unsecured creditor in the filing?

The PBGC.

Roughly 100K pensioners better start dusting off their resumes... it won't be ESL/Lampert taking the hit.
   119. Ray (CTL) Posted: October 15, 2018 at 11:55 PM (#5767367)
I note by the way that Harvard still has not released their hiring records with respect to her

Here are two posted documents related to Warren's time at Harvard. One shows that her classification was changed to Native American in 1995, almost three years after she was hired. The second is a signed letter from the Registrar's office that shows that her status was changed to Native American when Harvard was compiling its Affirmative Action report in 1995, again well after she was hired by Harvard.


I don't know what this proves, but regardless I repeat the original statement: Harvard still has not released their hiring records with respect to her.

There are also numerous stories from the time of her hiring from the Boston Globe, Penn Law Review, Harvard Law Review, and Harvard Crimson that discuss her hiring in terms of adding women to the faculty. Several of these articles worry that Harvard still does not have enough minority representation in its faculty. So it seems likely that Warren was hired without her claiming any special status, and then later on, Harvard used her small Native American heritage to try to boost its own diversity profile. It's not clear that Warren ever tried to benefit from her status.


Her own website refutes your bolded claim, does it not?

"In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman."


The way I read her here, she concedes that she made the claim to Native American ethnicity when applying to Harvard -- but argues that they never considered her claim.

EDIT: Actually it's the Boston Globe who wrote the above -- not her -- but she posted it on her website.
   120. Ray (CTL) Posted: October 15, 2018 at 11:55 PM (#5767368)
It's not clear that Warren ever tried to benefit from her status.

It is to Ray and Dilbert and Trump.


This is not actually an argument.
   121. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 15, 2018 at 11:57 PM (#5767369)
The latest judicial nominations update includes last week's flurry of late-session Senate activity:
Current & future vacancies: 154
Courts of Appeals: 15
District/Specialty Courts: 139

Pending nominees: 72
Courts of Appeals: 12
District/Specialty Courts: 60

Court of Appeals Nominees awaiting Judiciary Committee Hearing: 9
Court of Appeals Nominees awaiting Judiciary Committee Vote: 2

Nominees Awaiting Floor Votes: 34
Courts of Appeals: 1
District/Specialty Courts: 33

Nominees Confirmed by the Senate: 84
Supreme Court: 2
Courts of Appeals: 29
District/Specialty Courts: 53

The length of the post-election session may depend on how long it takes to resolve the remaining appropriations bills, but the GOP will be busily confirming judges while those negotiations take place. If, as expected, the GOP retains the Senate, perhaps Senate Democrats will see little to gain from dragging out the process, although their past behavior might seem to make that unlikely. My guess is that 3 Court of Appeals nominees who've had their hearings & most, if not all, of the 33 District Court nominees awaiting floor votes will be confirmed before the Senate's adjournment. That would make ~ 120 judicial appointees confirmed during the 115th Congress.
   122. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 15, 2018 at 11:57 PM (#5767370)
Why does Ray keep quoting passages that refute his argument and claim they mean the opposite?
   123. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:00 AM (#5767371)
Why does Ray keep quoting passages that refute his argument and claim they mean the opposite?


Because Ray's only capable of shooting fish in a barrel.
   124. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:06 AM (#5767372)
That would make ~ 120 judicial appointees confirmed during the 115th Congress.


You must be so proud of President "Rogue killers". Remind me, when did it become a plank of the Republican Party to support totalitarian regimes murdering US resident journalists?
   125. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:10 AM (#5767373)
Wow. 120. That’s sure more than the 22 that the 114th confirmed, isn’t it.
   126. Laser Man Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:13 AM (#5767374)
I don't know what this proves, but regardless I repeat the original statement: Harvard still has not released their hiring records with respect to her.
The first document shows that Harvard is changing her status in 1995 to Native American. Therefore, Harvard did not consider her status as Native American before that. The second document also states that her status was changed in 1995 from Caucasian to Native American during an affirmative action review. Again, the logical implication is that Harvard considered her as Caucasian until 1995. And that is supported by the news articles and press releases that explicitly refer to her as a white woman, and not a minority woman. The Boston Globe article of March 18, 1993 laments the fact that Harvard was unsuccessful in diversifying its faculty, although they did hire two white women.
   127. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:31 AM (#5767375)
Wow. 120. That’s sure more than the 22 that the 114th confirmed, isn’t it.

Elections have consequences. If Democrats wanted to confirm more judicial nominees in the 114th Congress, they shouldn't have poisoned the well by abolishing the judicial filibuster during the 113th Congress, which also significantly emptied the pipleline, and then promptly lost their Senate Majority.
   128. Ray (CTL) Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:36 AM (#5767376)
From the Globe article. This is neither here nor there but it's literally the first time I've ever heard of a woman proposing to a man:

Warren’s life changed; she was now on a path toward a professional career that her husband hadn’t quite signed up for. “I was supposed to be 100 percent focused on our home and our children, but I was making a life outside that neither of us expected,” Warren wrote in “A Fighting Chance,” her 2014 memoir. “I loved every new adventure I took on — he didn’t.”

The couple separated in the spring of 1979.

Later that year she met Bruce Mann, who was teaching law at the University of Connecticut, while they both attended a conference in Florida. Warren proposed to him, and they married in July 1980.

   129. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:41 AM (#5767377)
The 110th - Bush II/Democratic Senate confirmed 68.
   130. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:43 AM (#5767378)
This is neither here nor there but it's literally the first time I've ever heard of a woman proposing to a man:


This is the most Ray comment ever.
   131. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:50 AM (#5767379)
The first document shows that Harvard is changing her status in 1995 to Native American. Therefore, Harvard did not consider her status as Native American before that. The second document also states that her status was changed in 1995 from Caucasian to Native American during an affirmative action review.
The first document shows that Harvard University -- not the law school, the university -- is changing some paperwork. It shows nothing about what the law school hiring committee members considered when hiring her. The second document is the same link as the first one.

Also, you're confused -- perhaps by Warren's deliberate obfuscation -- about the timeline. You imply that for the first couple of years of her working there, she was listed as white, but then they changed her after a "review". That is not the case. While she was offered tenure in 1993 after her year as a visiting professor (this is the standard way that places like HLS do hiring), she did not actually start until 1995. So the 1995 document is from the beginning of her employment at HLS.
So it seems likely that Warren was hired without her claiming any special status, and then later on, Harvard used her small Native American heritage to try to boost its own diversity profile. It's not clear that Warren ever tried to benefit from her status.
No. She was listed in the AALS desk book, which is expressly used for hiring, as a minority. There's no other purpose for putting oneself on that list. Moreover, contrary to her claim that she only told Harvard and Penn after she was hired by each school -- besides being silly; once she told Penn, Harvard would know, too -- is belied by the Boston Globe report that HLS was reporting her as an Indian faculty member even before she was hired full time, back when she was a visiting professor.

And the Harvard Women's Law Journal, in the spring of 1993, when she was first being considered for permanent hiring, published a piece about "woman of color in legal academia" and expressly mentioning Warren.

You can argue that she didn't need Indian status to get her job. You can't argue that it was a secret and that she only told people after the fact.
   132. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:53 AM (#5767381)
The way I read her here, she concedes that she made the claim to Native American ethnicity when applying to Harvard -- but argues that they never considered her claim.

It's a bit murky about the extent to which Warren may have benefited from her bogus claim to be Native American, but it seems clear that she attempted to do so. Warren never claimed to be Native American until she was in her late 30s, and only made that claim for employment purposes, then stopped doing so once she received tenure at Harvard. Harvard itself touted her Native America status, so the claim that it didn't matter to them earlier may be a bit suspect.

EDIT: A more specific legal beverage to #131.
   133. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 16, 2018 at 12:55 AM (#5767382)
   134. Laser Man Posted: October 16, 2018 at 01:00 AM (#5767383)
The second document is the same link as the first one.
Sorry, here is the correct link for the Harvard Law School Registrar memo - HLS Registrar Memo
   135. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 16, 2018 at 01:00 AM (#5767384)
The 110th - Bush II/Democratic Senate confirmed 68.

Both George W. Bush and Barack Obama had 324 judicial nominees confirmed over 8 years. Obama has no claim that he was treated worse than Bush.
   136. Ray (CTL) Posted: October 16, 2018 at 01:08 AM (#5767385)
I don't know what this proves, but regardless I repeat the original statement: Harvard still has not released their hiring records with respect to her.

The first document shows that Harvard is changing her status in 1995 to Native American. Therefore, Harvard did not consider her status as Native American before that. The second document also states that her status was changed in 1995 from Caucasian to Native American during an affirmative action review. Again, the logical implication is that Harvard considered her as Caucasian until 1995.


How in the world could that be? As the Globe article says, in her final year at the University of Texas (1986-1987), she listed herself in the Association of American Law Schools (AALS) annual directory as a minority law professor. It was listed there for the next eight editions, which covered her years at Penn. (It was in 1987 that Penn made her an offer.)

Three years into her time at Penn she had Penn switch her listed ethnicity from white to Native American. When she won a teaching award at Penn in 1994 her name was bolded and italicized to highlight that she was being listed as a minority. Penn counted her as a diversity statistic in at least three years there in the early '90s.

The argument that Harvard didn't know she had been prominently listed as a minority for years is cartoonish.

Conveniently Warren can't remember any of the details. Boston Globe:

Warren, as she has in prior interviews, said that she does not remember telling Penn to change her ethnicity on their forms. “I can’t recall specific conversations,” Warren said. “The best I can do is tell you the overall. There is no one thing that stands out in that time period.”




   137. Laser Man Posted: October 16, 2018 at 01:12 AM (#5767388)
You can't argue that it was a secret and that she only told people after the fact.
I'm open to be convinced otherwise, but this article from the Crimson in February 1993 has quotes saying "The fact that the tenure offers tend to be right of center, and only white women is disturbing" and "There are still no tenured women of color on the Law School faculty. Five of the 60 tenured faculty at the Law School are women."

Harvard Crimson - 2/6/1993
   138. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 16, 2018 at 01:38 AM (#5767391)
The fact that the tenure offers tend to be right of center, and only white women is disturbing"
Well, given how far left Warren is, I think the more logical conclusion is that Julie Su was deeply clueless.
   139. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 16, 2018 at 01:42 AM (#5767392)
We've been told here that we should turn to The Onion for guidance on the complex issues of the day - Elizabeth Warren Disappointed After DNA Shows Zero Trace Of Presidential Material. The problem for Warren is that everyone gets the actual joke - ancestry in the 1/64th - 1/1024th range doesn't make one Native American, so her attempting to justify her earlier actions only compounds her problem.

   140. Ray (CTL) Posted: October 16, 2018 at 01:50 AM (#5767393)
Avenatti loses this one. NY Daily News:

Stormy Daniels’ defamation lawsuit against President Trump was dismissed Monday by a federal judge in California who said the porn star was on the hook for Trump’s legal fees.

U.S. District Judge James Otero determined that Trump had a right to use a Twitter post last April to respond to a public allegation leveled against him by Daniels.

“Mr. Trump's statement constituted ‘rhetorical hyperbole’ that is protected by the First Amendment,” Otero wrote in his opinion.

“To allow (Daniels) to proceed with her defamation action would, in effect, permit her to make public allegations against the President without giving him the opportunity to respond. Such a holding would violate the First Amendment,” the judge ruled.



Daniels filed the defamation action April 30, saying Trump unfairly branded her a liar after she released a sketch of a man who allegedly threatened her in a Las Vegas parking lot in 2011.
"A sketch years later about a nonexistent man. A total con job, playing the Fake News Media for Fools (but they know it)!" Trump wrote in his tweet at the center of the defamation claim.


   141. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 16, 2018 at 02:00 AM (#5767394)
The decision noted in #140 also ordered Daniels to pay Trump's attorney fees. Quite a month for Avenatti, his outrageous claims helped Kavanaugh get confirmed for the Supreme Court, and now his client will have to fork over a big chunk of her hard earned money to Trump. Will Democrats figure out that Avenatti must be a Trump plant before making him their 2020 nominee?
   142. Davo Posted: October 16, 2018 at 02:13 AM (#5767395)
@gilbertjasono
"Trump voters will surely be swayed by a DNA test from a world-class geneticist," thought Elizabeth Warren about a group of people who were convinced Hillary had Stage 5 Dementia because she coughed once.
   143. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 16, 2018 at 02:16 AM (#5767396)

“To allow (Daniels) to proceed with her defamation action would, in effect, permit her to make public allegations against the President without giving him the opportunity to respond. Such a holding would violate the First Amendment,” the judge ruled.
This. The idea that denying accusations that someone else made about you can justify a defamation suit on the grounds that you're calling the accuser a liar is pernicious, and needs to be nipped in the bud.
   144. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 16, 2018 at 03:58 AM (#5767397)
New York Antifa Publishes Names, Workplaces of ‘Proud Boys’ Who Assaulted Protesters
On Sunday night, the Twitter account for New York City Antifa posted a detailed thread showing various photos of the people involved in the fracas that broke out following “Proud Boys” founder Gavin McInnes’ speech at the Metropolitan Republican Club. In addition to the thread, New York antifa posted a blog listing the social media accounts, LinkedIn profiles, and workplaces of the attackers seen in the photos.

..........The Twitter thread is incredibly detailed, delving into not only where each attacker worked, but their hate group affiliations, past events in which they’re seen giving neo-Nazi signals, shirts of neo-Nazi music groups, and photos of tattoos displaying affiliations with various anti-Semitic and racist groups.

“Hope whatever comes your way was worth that 4th degree!” New York antifa tweeted in one post, referring to the 4th degree of Proud Boys membership in which members move up in the organization by engaging in street violence.


The #DoxxAllYourBoys Twitter thread, which appeared the day before the NYPD announced that they would be arresting nine "Proud Boys" and associates.
   145. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 16, 2018 at 04:16 AM (#5767398)
Shenanigans!

Nate Silver:
In other news, the award for least plausible internal poll of the election cycle goes to ... Mark Callahan, the Republican candidate in OR-5, who released a poll showing himself up 23 points (!) in a race that Cook/Sabato/Gonzales all rate as "Safe D".

I don't really like to call out cases like this as our model is pretty smart about dealing with weird data (e.g. it still has Schrader with an 84% chance). But this maybe the most... unexpected internal poll I can remember.

Harry Enten:
I'm not taking into account internal polls for the Senate, but my old friends @fivethirtyeight are... WPA Intelligence has such a pro GOP House effect that the addition of that Cruz +9 poll to the average actually strengthened's O'Rourke's chances.


Ever-helpful 538 puts asterisks on these sui way too generous polls, just to let the readers know their provenance.
   146. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 16, 2018 at 04:16 AM (#5767399)
Nate Silver:
We're now at another point of near-symmetry. There's roughly a:
—1 in 5 chance that Democrats win both Senate and House
—3 in 5 chance that the GOP keeps the Senate but Democrats win the House
—1 in 5 chance that the GOP keeps both chambers
   147. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 16, 2018 at 06:58 AM (#5767400)
Read 95 closely and carefully.

And then note that Ray makes the implication that it says what it actually does not.

My problem is not that people like him apply subjective standards that reinforce a preferred set of beliefs, it's that they try to pretend that they're above it and actually apply the same standards in all cases, regardless of the person or matter at hand.


Reflexive dishonesty is the only thing you can really count on from our Little Lord. The real question in my mind is whether lawyers are reflexively dishonest because of their training, or if the profession simply attracts the congenitally mendacious.
   148. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 16, 2018 at 07:13 AM (#5767401)
@gilbertjasono
"Trump voters will surely be swayed by a DNA test from a world-class geneticist," thought Elizabeth Warren about a group of people who were convinced Hillary had Stage 5 Dementia because she coughed once.


Scientific evidence isn’t really a strong point for Trumpholsters, who seem to be stupid and credulous even for Republican voters. When you draw from a base of Creationists you’re pre-selecting for a host of ignorant and easily falsifiable beliefs as well as an unwavering belief that mere evidence cannot refute wishful thinking. So Hillary will always be a murderer, Obama will always be a jungle savage, climate change will always be a hoax, and so forth. I think their rank stupidity actually becomes self-reenforcing as reality continues to insult them they way it historically does to the willfully ignorant. Clearly Soros the Jew is behind it all.
   149. BrianBrianson Posted: October 16, 2018 at 07:24 AM (#5767402)
Her own website refutes your bolded claim, does it not?


It does not.
   150. BDC Posted: October 16, 2018 at 07:35 AM (#5767403)
first time I've ever heard of a woman proposing to a man


1980 was a leap year.
   151. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 16, 2018 at 07:57 AM (#5767405)
When Trump or good old Bart are involved in a situation suddenly we are in a courtroom. There are rules of evidence. My goodness people, how can you disregard all that and try to convict him! What happened to presumption of innocence?

When a Democrat (Like Senator Warren) is involved, then Ray also demands evidence, evidence of innocence.

It is extremely comical to watch.
   152. PreservedFish Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:17 AM (#5767409)
@gilbertjasono
"Trump voters will surely be swayed by a DNA test from a world-class geneticist," thought Elizabeth Warren about a group of people who were convinced Hillary had Stage 5 Dementia because she coughed once.


The dumbest Republicans are hopeless, of course, but who do we think she was really trying to convince? Swing voters? Maybe Democrats that would prefer to leave this embarrassing kerfuffle behind?
   153. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:35 AM (#5767416)
This is not actually an argument.


People rarely bother with "actually an argument" with you because you've become as intellectually dishonest and predictably partisan as SBB and Clapper combined.
   154. Lassus Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:37 AM (#5767418)
This is not actually an argument.

Beaten to it. My response was "Yes, it is not".
   155. Lassus Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:41 AM (#5767420)
Maybe Democrats that would prefer to leave this embarrassing kerfuffle behind?

Now, now, let's not be unreasonable here.
   156. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:43 AM (#5767423)
New York Antifa Publishes Names, Workplaces of ‘Proud Boys’ Who Assaulted Protesters


Still waiting for a single representative of the alt-right/Trump coalition here (Clapper, Ray, SBB) to say a single word about their allies assaulting people in the streets. Maybe they can call Jason and see what they're supposed to whatabout to first.
   157. BrianBrianson Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:45 AM (#5767425)
She was trying to get a "win" in the news cycle to give her better name recognition among low information Democratic primary voters.

And she did.
   158. PreservedFish Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:47 AM (#5767427)
She was trying to get a "win" in the news cycle to give her better name recognition among low information Democratic primary voters.


Yes, that might be right.
   159. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:51 AM (#5767429)
This is your periodic reminder that the Mueller investigation continues on its merry way.

As Trump campaigns, Cohen has willingly talked to government investigators for more than 50 hours.

Other than a few tweets and statements, Cohen has remained relatively quiet since pleading guilty, in August, to violating campaign laws by paying off women who claimed to have had affairs with Donald Trump at what he said, in open court, was the “direction” of the then-candidate. Behind the scenes, however, Robert Mueller’s special investigation into collusion and obstruction of justice continues apace. So does the Southern District’s probe into campaign-finance violations. Despite having no formal cooperation agreement with the government, Cohen has willingly assisted and provided information critical to several ongoing investigations, according to two sources familiar with the situation, in a string of meetings that have exceeded more than 50 hours in sum. (A spokesman for the S.D.N.Y. declined to comment. A spokesperson for the special counsel’s office declined to comment. Cohen declined to comment.) These conversations are the latest manifestation of Cohen's brand of patriotism. In June, Cohen told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos that he would no longer be protecting Trump or the Trump family. “To be crystal clear,” he said, “my wife, my daughter, and my son, and this country have my first loyalty.”


I am just glad GOP President and Global Laughingstock Trump never claimed anything as terrible as having a Native American ancestor! Then Ray would really be going after him. As it is Ray just doesn't care about possible law breaking by Trump.
   160. Davo Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:53 AM (#5767431)
@NewYorker
Sarah Huckabee Sanders says her pro-life views are “non-negotiable,” adding, “One of the things that makes Americans unique is that we value life. We think each life has intrinsic value and worth, whether you are a baby in the womb or an elderly woman.”


How arrogant and close-minded can one person be?
   161. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:54 AM (#5767433)
Was this mentioned previously? If so, I apologize, but honestly it is funny enough to be posted more than once.

Fox Host Complains Trump Was ‘Peppered with Questions’

Fox & Friends host Ainsley Earhardt complained on Twitter that President Trump’s interview on 60 Minutes was unfair because he was “peppered endlessly with questions,” the Washington Post reports.


I guess you can't expect a Fox host to understand how an interview works.
   162. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:56 AM (#5767434)
How arrogant and close-minded can one person be?


Wait a minute. Performance art! Is that what your posts are trying to show? I get it now.
   163. manchestermets Posted: October 16, 2018 at 08:57 AM (#5767435)
Maybe they can call Jason and see what they're supposed to whatabout to first.


I assume his line would be that this is just the opposition media defaming the President's finest men.
   164. Greg K Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:00 AM (#5767436)
Sarah Huckabee Sanders says her pro-life views are “non-negotiable,” adding, “One of the things that makes Americans unique is that we value life. We think each life has intrinsic value and worth, whether you are a baby in the womb or an elderly woman.”


How arrogant and close-minded can one person be?

For me, the take away from this statement is "one of the things that makes Americans unique is that we value life". I'm not sure which is odder about American politics - the need to turn every issue into a partisan divide? Or the pervading provincialism and insular world view.
   165. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:04 AM (#5767437)
Still waiting for a single representative of the alt-right/Trump coalition here (Clapper, Ray, SBB) to say a single word about their allies assaulting people in the streets. Maybe they can call Jason and see what they're supposed to whatabout to first.


I don't think our various Lordlings and fancy lads would have much to do with these people, beyond cheerleading from a safe distance as befits, well, cheerleaders. You don't expect a cheerleader to rush onto the field and engage the enemy team because they know they'll get hurt. Their job is to encourage and exhort their team to beat and hurt the enemy.
   166. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:04 AM (#5767439)
We've been told here that we should turn to The Onion for guidance on the complex issues of the day - Elizabeth Warren Disappointed After DNA Shows Zero Trace Of Presidential Material. The problem for Warren is that everyone gets the actual joke - ancestry in the 1/64th - 1/1024th range doesn't make one Native American, so her attempting to justify her earlier actions only compounds her problem.


The decision noted in #140 also ordered Daniels to pay Trump's attorney fees. Quite a month for Avenatti, his outrageous claims helped Kavanaugh get confirmed for the Supreme Court, and now his client will have to fork over a big chunk of her hard earned money to Trump. Will Democrats figure out that Avenatti must be a Trump plant before making him their 2020 nominee?


Yes, the person who posted this voted for Trump, has unerringly supported him since 2016, and has had nary a negative word to say about him since 2012...

Yes, a lifelong DC bureaucrat in what some people derisively call a swamp...

Irony?

Yes, I think he knows what it means.

Ahhhh.... good point, being able to recite the book definition does not necessarily mean one actually grasps its meaning.
   167. BDC Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:06 AM (#5767441)
For me, the take away from this statement is "one of the things that makes Americans unique is that we value life". I'm not sure which is odder about American politics - the need to turn every issue into a partisan divide? Or the pervading provincialism and insular world view


No, it's true. I was in Denmark last summer, and they had drones that randomly dropped shipping containers into crowds just so people could watch everybody die and get a good laugh out of it. They value disgusting licorice more than human life.
   168. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:06 AM (#5767442)
You don't expect a cheerleader to rush onto the field and engage the enemy team because they know they'll get hurt. Their job is to encourage and exhort their team to beat and hurt the enemy.


Is this part of the whole Dilbert "wizard" thing?
   169. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:07 AM (#5767443)
For me, the take away from this statement is "one of the things that makes Americans unique is that we value life". I'm not sure which is odder about American politics - the need to turn every issue into a partisan divide? Or the pervading provincialism and insular world view.


I think it's the manner in which we freely imply a bazillion asterisks to our truisms.
   170. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:10 AM (#5767444)
Sarah Huckabee Sanders says her pro-life views are “non-negotiable,” adding, “One of the things that makes Americans unique is that we value life. We think each life has intrinsic value and worth, whether you are a baby in the womb or an elderly woman.”


What about immigrant families, tubby? Does that cockeye give you social myopia too?
   171. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:12 AM (#5767445)
ищет любовь во всех неправильных местах

A new dating app for Trump supporters that wants to “make America date again” has leaked its entire database of users — on the day of its launch.

The app, called “Donald Daters,” is aimed at “American-based singles community connecting lovers, friends, and Trump supporters alike” and has already received rave reviews and coverage in Fox News, Daily Mail and The Hill.

On its launch day alone, the app had a little over 1,600 users and counting.

We know because a security researcher found issues with the app that made it possible to download the entire user database.

Elliot Alderson, a French security researcher, shared the database with TechCrunch, which included users’ names, profile pictures, device type, their private messages — and access tokens, which can be used to take over accounts.

The data was accessible from a public and exposed Firebase data repository, which was hardcoded in the app. Shortly after TechCrunch contacted the app maker, the data was pulled offline.

We reached out to Emily Moreno, the app’s founder and a former aide to Sen. Marco Rubio; she did not comment.
   172. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:12 AM (#5767446)
For me, the take away from this statement is "one of the things that makes Americans unique is that we value life".
The takeaway for me is that she was trying to make an anti-abortion statement (pro-choice people aren't real Americans) but is bad at rhetoric.
   173. . Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5767447)
So, #### it... if the great binary sorting is upon us, might as well just go with your rooting interests.


Upon us? It's been upon us for 20+ years. It's now, conservatively, at the end of Act II/beginning of Act III -- political disgust and polarization morphing into low-level street violence. (*)

Your statement, wherein even the non-violent throw in the towel and root for the violence on their side, is how Act III progresses.

There's really nothing binding the two sides together anymore. If they were separated by geography, divorce proceedings would already be underway. It would be better if they were separated by geography so we could just get on with the inevitable.

(*) And now with Twitter and social media, there's no time for any kind of respite. Violent, tribal rhetoric is a constant drumbeat. There's no reason for optimism that it will ever end.
   174. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5767448)
Sarah Huckabee Sanders says her pro-life views are “non-negotiable,” adding, “One of the things that makes Americans unique is that we value life. We think each life has intrinsic value and worth, whether you are a baby in the womb or an elderly woman.
...However, kidnaped children in cages can continue to go fuck themselves.”
   175. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:14 AM (#5767449)
What about immigrant families, tubby?


No. And not Yemeni women and children either. Or people our friends with oil dismember. Really, only white Christian pre-born fetus life. Even for the blessed white folk, once they're born, you know, #### 'em.
   176. . Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:16 AM (#5767450)
The entire course of human history has been a - admittedly, sometimes glacial - drift towards the left. On every single item I care about - public/governmental care for citizenry, equality on race, gender, and sexual orientation, capital vs labor.... you name it.


Umm ... Earth to Zonk ... capital has trounced and routed labor in the last four decades or so. I guess if you look very, very big picture that could change someday, but there is no "drift to the left" on the issue in any serious sense. There was, for a small spell, but the long arc, natural drift, is entirely in favor of capital.
   177. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:18 AM (#5767453)
A new dating app for Trump supporters that wants to “make America date again” has leaked its entire database of users — on the day of its launch.


Not sure which is more precious here, that they have to build their own private network to get laid (poorly), that their entire dating pool seems to be 1600 people, or that they're so technically inept as to leave a hardcoded Firebase plugin open and accessible in the tool. I'm leaning toward the technical ineptness. I've known some truly horrific people who could nonetheless code and manage an infrastructure plan. It's not all that surprising that the right wing conservatives have basically resorted to incest to get their rocks off. It's sort of their thing, from way back.
   178. TDF, trained monkey Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:21 AM (#5767455)
She was trying to get a "win" in the news cycle to give her better name recognition among low information Democratic primary voters.
Someone on Twitter yesterday posited that she was trying to head off a "Swift boat"ing.

That being said, Warren should've cut bait on the Native American thing long ago.
   179. JL72 Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:23 AM (#5767457)
She was trying to get a "win" in the news cycle to give her better name recognition among low information Democratic primary voters.


The big thing Warren did was give her supports something to hit back with on this issue. The DNA test was not going to convince anyone who was against her. But now when it is raised, she has something that she and her supporters can use to refute it.

Not too different than Trump changing NAFTA to make it look like TPP. In politics, the simpler argument almost always beats the argument that requires knowing the details.
   180. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:23 AM (#5767458)
Someone on Twitter yesterday posited that she was trying to head off a "Swift boat"ing.


Not sure why one would do that. The entire point of Swift-boating is that the attacks and slanders have zero basis in reality.
   181. . Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:27 AM (#5767460)
Essentially, the Trump administration is a coalition between the ultra-right and the old consensus-conservative party


No, professor, you remain in denial. For all the modish theories about "white nationalism" and whatnot, Donald Trump was elected because the American working class has been decimated and their lives taken away from them and they rebelled against the corrupt bargain between the two major parties that drove things to that point. It's really that simple. With the kind-of exception of Bernie Sanders, he was the only candidate on either side who professed to understand that -- or even care. The Democratic standard bearer, mere weeks away from winning the presidency, affirmatively told the working class to eat cake.

I'd agree that sometimes said working class doesn't express their discontent very well, and certainly not in a way that will warm modern liberal hearts, but don't confuse symptom for disease.
   182. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:28 AM (#5767463)
Umm ... Earth to Zonk ... capital has trounced and routed labor in the last four decades or so. I guess if you look very, very big picture that could change someday, but there is no "drift to the left" on the issue in any serious sense. There was, for a small spell, but the long arc, natural drift, is entirely in favor of capital.


Even just purely in terms of human civilization, 40 years is a flyspeck.

I certainly wouldn't deny being a trough at the moment... but 80 years ago? 160? 400?
   183. TDF, trained monkey Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:30 AM (#5767465)
As Rob Neyer often says, 63 million people voted for this:
Yet this week, the Trump administration may deport four black men to Mauritania, a Muslim-majority nation in Africa that the CIA describes as a hotbed for human trafficking and modern-day slavery of its black minority residents. If the deportations are carried out, they would represent the latest in a growing number of black Mauritanians forced to return to a nation that their attorneys say could lead to imprisonment, torture, slavery or death.

From fiscal years 2014 to 2017, Immigration and Customs Enforcement averaged just seven deportations to Mauritania each year based on those concerns. But in 2018, the agency deported 79 people to Mauritania, and ICE says another 22 are in custody awaiting deportation.
Tacit support of slavery and human trafficking. No wonder they all still fly the Confederate flag.
   184. TDF, trained monkey Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:31 AM (#5767466)
The entire point of Swift-boating is that the attacks and slanders have zero basis in reality.
Well, yeah, and now she has proof before they can even bring it up (or at least, that was her plan).
   185. . Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5767467)
Moreover even if it could be proven that her lies played no role in getting the positions she applied for -- it can't be -- even that is not the issue. The issue is whether she tried to gain an unfair advantage through these things. And she did.


Affirmative action remains unique in American annals as the only program and policy millions of Americans have advocated for and implemented and defended in the courts ... that no one ever benefited from.
   186. . Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5767469)
Seems like Senator Warren may have created a bigger problem for herself.


The idea that someone who's 1/500th a particular "ethnicity" *is* that ethnicity is vintage modern liberal clownshoes. Just absurd in every dimension -- as is Warren testing herself.

The test doesn't prove jack squat, but of course she didn't have benefit of the test when she laughably listed herself as "Native American" on various job-related forms.
   187. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5767470)
Well, yeah, and now she has proof before they can even bring it up (or at least, that was her plan).


If she's talking about it, the lie has already won. The entire basis of modern right wing political theory is that truth and facts are meaningless, and that the only thing that matters if how big you lie to keep the idiots in an uproar and thus in line.
   188. Zonk Rocks You Like a Sharpiecane Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:36 AM (#5767471)

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

For the record, I have no financial interests in Saudi Arabia (or Russia, for that matter). Any suggestion that I have is just more FAKE NEWS (of which there is plenty)!
8:15 AM - Oct 16, 2018


Good thing that Tronald Dump guy didn't win... man, all the bragging he did about the Saudi connections in 2016? That would dude would have some serious problems if his (latest) Secretary of State was yucking it up with MBS
   189. . Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5767472)
No, she claimed that she understood herself to be ~1/32nd Native, which is at at the top end of what the tests show.


No, it's not, Mr. Scientist. The "top end" is half-again that. Best case, even with these dubious tests, is that she has one native ancestor six generations removed. More likely, it's like ten or twelve generations, if that.
   190. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5767473)
The idea that someone who's 1/500th a particular "ethnicity" *is* that ethnicity is vintage modern liberal clownshoes.


I can't believe I took you off ignore for even 1/500th of a second. As others have pointed out to Ray, and as you will ignore as completely as he does, the entire "question" of "ethnicity" is a wedge talking point created by the right, sponsored by the right, based in absolutely zero facts or truths, and repeated ad nauseum so that idiots like you will swallow the un-truth whole.
   191. . Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5767474)
Fish in a barrel on Hillary's latest Monica comments. Why bother.


Like the Chicago Bears, she is, and has always been, who we thought she was.
   192. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:39 AM (#5767476)
Well, yeah, and now she has proof before they can even bring it up (or at least, that was her plan).


I don't think it is the truth that helps inoculate her, but the story is not "new". One way to mitigate these sorts of stories is to go through the whole news cycle early in the campaign when the less politically aware voters are not paying attention, but news types are paying attention. Then as the campaign picks up the story is old news an thus much less news and click worthy than some random new thing, so it gets less play.

I am not saying it is super effective, but I think that is a possible theory (not exclusive with the other theories mind you, more than one thing can be accomplished at a time).
   193. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:41 AM (#5767477)
I am just glad GOP President and Global Laughingstock Trump never claimed anything as terrible as having a Native American ancestor! Then Ray would really be going after him.

Indeed he would, if by "him" you mean the fact-checkers. According to Ray, Trump's 4,229 lies or misleading statements** amount to nothing more than clever political trolling, with no moral dimension whatever.

** That's 4,229 as of August 1st. Given his nonstop campaigning since then, it's likely over 4,500 by now.
   194. BDC Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:41 AM (#5767478)
Donald Trump was elected because the American working class has been decimated and their lives taken away from them and they rebelled against the corrupt bargain


Yeah, and Hitler was elected because the German working class was decimated and their lives taken away from them and they'd been Dolchstoß'ed by the rootless cosmopolitans. Tell me more about your Leader.
   195. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:41 AM (#5767479)
I can't believe I took you off ignore for even 1/500th of a second.


Yeah, um, why? When less attention is paid to him he posts less and the board gets better.
   196. BDC Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:44 AM (#5767481)
The entire basis of modern right wing political theory is that truth and facts are meaningless, and that the only thing that matters if how big you lie to keep the idiots in an uproar and thus in line


Somewhat lost in all the other bull#### lately were Trump's claims that the Democrats had unanimously signed onto a "open borders bill" and that their Medicare-for-all plan would dismantle Medicare: the former being a complete fabrication and the latter being absurd on the face of it. (I mean, even if Medicare-for-all is impractical, "Everybody gets pie" does not mean "You lose your pie.")

Republicans don't even bother to disavow these lies anymore, but for that very reason they implicitly run on whatever benefit the lies provide. That's responsible conservatism, 2018-style.
   197. . Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:45 AM (#5767483)
It was listed there for the next eight editions, which covered her years at Penn. (It was in 1987 that Penn made her an offer.)


Take a scouring of the Penn faculty and see how many "white" professors have places like Houston/Rutgers undergrad/law school. Pretty good guess you won't find many, but it's an empirical question. She has mediocre schooling credentials, by the standards of the places we're talking about. I guess if she graduated summa at Rutgers -- no idea whether she did -- you can maybe squint enough to kind of maybe get her in contention, but really not even then.
   198. . Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5767486)
I can't believe I took you off ignore for even 1/500th of a second.


Yes, you can.

and as you will ignore as completely as he does, the entire "question" of "ethnicity" is a wedge talking point created by the right, sponsored by the right, based in absolutely zero facts or truths, and repeated ad nauseum so that idiots like you will swallow the un-truth whole.


In a long list of absurdities, that may go top of the heap. Everything the progressive left ever talks about is ethnic identity and how much it matters and defines, limits and benefits.

The modern liberal concept "white nationalism" is nothing but the "question" of "ethnicity." "White privilege" same thing. George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin -- perceptions there purely a "question" of "ethnicity."

Etc, etc.
   199. JL72 Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5767487)
Then as the campaign picks up the story is old news an thus much less news and click worthy than some random new thing, so it gets less play.


It also has a set response. The most damaging news stories are those where the candidate appears to be scrambling for a response and has to change it, even slightly. Once you have a set response, it becomes an issue with two sides that many voters will tune out.
   200. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 16, 2018 at 09:49 AM (#5767491)
What about immigrant families, tubby?


No. And not Yemeni women and children either. Or people our friends with oil dismember. Really, only white Christian pre-born fetus life. Even for the blessed white folk, once they're born, you know, #### 'em.


And the people Putin murders, so long as it's not in this country. And the people mentioned in #183. And numerous other examples of this country not giving a #### about human life.

Genuine concern for the life of the unborn fetus is indeed the motivating factor for some, maybe even a majority of pro-life people. But for a good number, it's about controlling women, as evidenced by the numerous afore mentioned instances of callous disregard for human life.
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