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Monday, October 08, 2018

OTP 2018 October 8: Hugh Jackman’s ‘The Front Runner’ Confronts The Political Conundrum Of Our Time

The picture drops us into the thick of the 1984 campaign right as Hart (a low-key and weather Jackman, oddly eschewing his usual star charisma) conceding the nomination to Walter Mondale. As you know, Mondale got slaughtered by Ronald Regan in the general election, losing all but one state in the electoral college (despite still winning 41% of the popular vote). So, four years later, Hart is back in the thick of it, as he argues that the failed 1984 campaign was partially to introduce himself on the national stage for the next time anyway. And this time out, he quickly becomes the front runner for the nomination and the general election.

 

Want to know what happened next? I guess you have to watch the movie.


(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 08, 2018 at 09:00 AM | 1559 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movie, off topic, politics

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   1001. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 11, 2018 at 06:13 PM (#5764849)
999- Belief in the power and efficacy of the vaunted “free market” is just an article of faith, held by conservatives to justify their own monstrously sinful and harmful behaviors.
   1002. Traderdave Posted: October 11, 2018 at 06:34 PM (#5764856)
Even the Soviets believed in the free market. They used it to their advantage when they needed to. They turned to it in the 20's during NEP, they allowed private plots on both collectives and state farms because they knew it was the only way to feed the population. They regularly sold diamonds & gold into market spikes and when oil spiked they acted like a petro state.

They only maintained a command economy so the party could keep political control. They knew all along a free market was a superior system, but hey, keep waving the red flag. It's a free country, stupidity and success are both legal.
   1003. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 11, 2018 at 06:45 PM (#5764861)
Looks like the Senate is wrapping things up - Leaders Strike Deal On 15 Judges, Leading To Early Recess:
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Democratic Leader Charles Schumer (N.Y.) have struck a deal to vote on a package of 15 judges and recess the Senate until the Nov. 6 election.

All of the nominees, including three circuit court nominees, are expected to pass despite opposition from liberal groups that fought an all-out-battle to block Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh earlier this month.

They're voting now. This will make 84 judges appointed by Trump confirmed, with ~ 35 more possible for the post-election session. More at link.
   1004. perros Posted: October 11, 2018 at 06:50 PM (#5764863)
'Best way to engage and change the minds of the people in your community is through Church and Fellowship.'

I'm inclined to this is completely nutty - if people are going to church, they're probably not at all open to the idea that they might be wrong.


It's not that you can't form a radical praftice as a Christian. Crossan is great at illuminating how Jesus' message is one of upending existing social relations, not by arguing with people, but showing them how these hierarchies are fundamentally unjust. There are countless Christians down through the ages who have practiced this gospel, to the spawning of liberation theology and activists like the Berrigans who set examples of Christian resistance.

The practicing bourgie Christian may aid the oppressed, but he'll do nothing to challenge the fundamental socioeconomic norms that support oppression.


Engaging the people you know is probably where you can have the biggest influence, even if that's sometimes considered "rude". So, I guess it depends on how you know people.


Even if you get past allowable rudeness, how would people be spurred to move out of their comfort zones? What you will need is an emotional spark to activate unrest, like the Van Dyke shooting in Chicago, refugee kids stolen from their parents, or confirming an unapologetic shithead to the Supreme Court -- evidence that the powers that be don't actually give a #### about all the things they pay lip service. You don't merely virtue signal resistance, but find the places where the powers that be violently resist you and PUSH.

Chicago seems the perfect place to keep pushing NOW.
   1005. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:07 PM (#5764868)
   1006. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:14 PM (#5764871)
Dina Powell removes herself from UN ambassador consideration.

Kim Kardashian, Ivanka Trump, and Just Go Away and Be in Europe now rumored to be the frontrunners...
   1007. perros Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:15 PM (#5764872)
Some interesting White House luncheons this week, with Trump very much in his comfort zone. Plus 2-3 fascist rabble rousings.
   1008. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:19 PM (#5764873)
So much for my early speculation that yesterday's 9th Circuit nominations were the result of a deal with Senator Feinstein. It now appears that the nominations mark the breakdown of long unsuccessful negotiations. Trump's appointees, which included 2 Asian-Americans (one gay), were quite similar to those approved by Senator Durbin for two Illinois-based 7th Ciruit Judgeships, but Senator Feinstein apparently wanted to drive a harder bargain, proposing to nominate an Obama-appointed District Court Judge, as well as an already retirement-eligible 68-year old Bush District Court Judge, and a 63-year old law firm partner. Not your typical nominees. Senator Schumer has been uncharacteristically silent on yesterday's two 2nd Circuit nominations, so there may be a better chance of agreement there.
   1009. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:21 PM (#5764875)
If you prefer your luncheon news in transcript form rather than video....


Can anyone translate this?

The four gentlemen that wrote the 13th Amendment — and I think the way the universe works, it’s perfect. We don’t have 13 floors, do we? You know, so the four — the four gentlemen that wrote the 13th Amendment didn’t look like the people they were amending. Also at that point, it was illegal for blacks to read — or African Americans to read. And so that meant if you actually read the Amendment, you would get locked up and turned into a slave.


1). We do have 13 floors. Every building higher than 12 stories has a 13th floor.

2) You don't amend people. You amend a document.

3) Pretty sure no northern blacks were sent to prison for reading, and in any event, nobody in the country or confederacy was going to prison for the crime of reading in 1865. And since the amendment outlawed slavery, nobody was turned into a slave for reading.

   1010. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:23 PM (#5764877)
I always love this term when the market crashes. It's a self healing system!


Paraphrasing Trump from yesterday ... "It's a necessary correction ... Also, I blame the Fed!"
   1011. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:32 PM (#5764879)
I think the BEST part of today's event is actually the reaction from Trump-supporting places on the web... where "this is how they talk" and "he's translating MAGA for them!"

You know, like how Obama had that luncheon with Ozzy Osbourne in order to reach white people.
   1012. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:32 PM (#5764880)
a kid's name is like an article of clothing they wear every day for the rest of their lives.

An old classmate of mine who taught elementary school in Itta Bena, Mississippi in the 80's had students named Notorious, Semetric, Dominitrix, and No Smoking.

But my favorite by far was a student of another teacher friend of mine in Raleigh: Delicatessa. I'm just glad that girl didn't have a twin brother.
   1013. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:38 PM (#5764884)
And what’s a black Beatle anyway, a ####### roach?
I guess that's why they got me sitting in ####### coach
My guy said I need a different approach
Cause people is looking at me like I’m sniffing coke
It's not funny anymore, try different jokes
Tell ‘em hug and kiss my ass, x and o
And kiss the ring while they at it, do my thing while I got it
Play strings for the dramatic ending of that wack ####
Act like I ain't had a belt in two classes
I ain't got it I’m coming after whoever who has it
I’m coming after whoever. Who has it?
You blowin' up, that’s good, fantastic
That y’all, it's like that y'all
I don’t really give a #### about it at all
Cause the same people that tried to black ball me
Forgot about two things, my black balls


Easily my favorite track on the album.

Ain't no question if I want it, I need it...
   1014. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:48 PM (#5764890)
He's helluva an artist... just like Ozzy Osbourne.

Politics don't change that. But - that don't change politics.
   1015. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 11, 2018 at 07:59 PM (#5764903)
There's a fascinating (and disturbing) history of U.S. incarceration but the 13th Amendment isn't even a blip in that history.


If Kanye is verbally shitting about the 13th in regard to the incarceration state, he's almost certainly doing so in reference to the Netflix documentary, "13th".
   1016. BrianBrianson Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:06 PM (#5764907)
Even if you get past allowable rudeness, how would people be spurred to move out of their comfort zones? What you will need is an emotional spark to activate unrest, like the Van Dyke shooting in Chicago, refugee kids stolen from their parents, or confirming an unapologetic shithead to the Supreme Court -- evidence that the powers that be don't actually give a #### about all the things they pay lip service. You don't merely virtue signal resistance, but find the places where the powers that be violently resist you and PUSH.


I have no real interest in getting my friends, family, or even acquaintances needlessly killed. If they actively engage, if they think being politically involved is cool - that's enough. Did not vote wins basically every election.
   1017. perros Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:07 PM (#5764908)
Abolish prison.
   1018. Greg K Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:11 PM (#5764910)
Go back to the good old days when you had the option of death; mutilation; public shaming; or a fine.

All great options, and you can even sell tickets to most of them.
   1019. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:13 PM (#5764912)
In what I'm sure is just a coincidence, Kanye does have another album slated for release soon (actually, it was supposed to come out earlier this month), just like how he had an album set to drop right around the time he hopped back on social media and started praising Trump last spring.
   1020. perros Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:15 PM (#5764913)

I have no real interest in getting my friends, family, or even acquaintances needlessly killed. If they actively engage, if they think being politically involved is cool - that's enough. Did not vote wins basically every election.


So in thr good ol' US of A, if you actively resist oppression, you'll be killed? No wonder we're such close allies with the Saudis.

Nobody benefitting from the starus quo will try to overturn it, even by minimally effective means -- voting. Did not vote wins where elections are rigged, where only the wealthy can win, where millions are stripped of their rights even when they want to vote when there is a choice.

Thanks for the link, Sam.
   1021. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:16 PM (#5764914)
Looks like soon-to-be 78-year old Donna Shalala may not get to join the septuagenarian-heavy House Democratic Caucus after all. Despite runnng in a District Democrats once thought to be an easy pick-up, Shalala is now trailing in the latest poll [TRIGGER WARNING: Linked article includes photo of a T-Shirt clad Shalala]:
Former Clinton Foundation head Donna Shalala is trailing former Spanish-language TV newswoman Maria Elvira Salazar, according to a new poll of a crucial, GOP-held Florida congressional district that Democrats had once counted on as an easy pickup.

Salazar’s narrow 2-percentage point lead is well within the Mason-Dixon Polling & Research survey’s 4-point margin of error. But the result stands in contrast to how the Democratic nominees for Senate and governor are faring in the Miami-based 27th Congressional District — both are ahead of their Republican opponents by 4 points — providing fresh evidence of Shalala’s underperforming campaign.

Maybe she'd do better if Bill & Hillary campaigned for her?
   1022. perros Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:19 PM (#5764916)
Go back to the good old days when you had the option of death; mutilation; public shaming; or a fine.


Foucault covers this evolution in Dicipline and Punish. Things work best when people willingly screw themselves.
   1023. BrianBrianson Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:21 PM (#5764917)
If you violently resist, you might.

And unless you actually think you can violently overthrow the government, voting is the first step. Did not vote wins because people don't care. Because they buy into that it doesn't matter, or that they can't do anything. If you want to reach people, you have to meet them where they are. If you're more interested in trying to occupy the moral high ground - uhm, go ahead. I have no interest in that.
   1024. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:24 PM (#5764918)
If you want to reach people, you have to meet them where they are.


Under a boot could be "where they are."
   1025. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:58 PM (#5764928)
Clapper:
In other Senate news, the Republicans chances of retaining the Senate increased to 81.5% at FiveThirtyEight,

Misirlou:
Congrats? The greatest map for Republicans in a generation, and you are merely 81.5% to not lose 2 seats. Enjoy the victory. Shout it from the rooftops like New Jersey Muslims on 9/11.

Mouse:
I consider it a victory if the Democrats only lose one Senate seat when confronted with the best GOP senate map in anyone's lifetime, I guess Clapper considers it a victory if the Democrats only win one seat.

Clapper:
Desperate Bitter Mouse needs to argue with 538 if he doesn't like how their Forecast Model frames the question - I am but the messenger of news he prefers not to hear. I won't remind folks of the posts here sugggesting the Dems might take over the Senate, since that sentiment seems increasingly scarce, here and elsewhere. However, my own prediction is that the GOP gains between 1-3 seats - more than good enough for party of the president in a midterm election.

Zonk:
It is nice he has completely forgotten his own previous trolling about the House though. Remember the days when he talked about average seat gains and how anything less than that would be a loss for the Democrats?

Clapper:
I said a long time ago that the Democrats had a reasonable chance to capture the House in 2018, since they would only need the average opposition party seat gain to do so. Bizarrely, there was immediate, strenuous, knee-jerk push back here, because not every midterm produces average gains for the opposition party. Well, duh. Nothing has changed on the House, although we should be long past the point where Team Blue can claim that falling short of capturing the House would still be something of a victory. Like 2016, you've counted the chickens before the eggs have hatched. Maybe the results will be better for you this time, maybe not.


"Duh" is an excellent summation of Clapper’s willful analysis of supposed midterm House pickup norms, which was like taking Snow White, Prince Charming, the Evil Queen and the Seven Dwarfs to calculate the "average height" of the characters.

In the ten midterms since Jimmy Carter’s, the opposition party has picked up 25 House seats 4 times in 10 midterms — but just as often, they’ve picked up a mere 8 seats or fewer. (The remaining two results were +13 and +15.)

Just twice in the last forty years (2006, 1982) has a party come within the vicinity of Clapper’s “historical midterm average” that all opposition parties should be hitting as a matter of course. (Those two 63-seat and 52-seat cycles are doing a lot of lifting of that all-important average.) Bringing up this math leaves Clapper faux-baffled by the "knee-jerk pushback."

Clapper expressed his same artificial disregard for context today when he said that a 1-seat Senate pickup would be “more than good enough” on the most disproportionately advantageous map either party has seen since the direct election of Senators began 104 years ago. (Those “in a generation” and “within our lifetimes” posts by Misirlou and Zonk undersold the crazily good map that Republicans are about to squander.)

And yet according to RCP (Repetitive Clapper Prattle), we're expected to believe that the GOP wins just one Senate seat, it will be a normal, proportionate victory and a satisfying result. While if the Democrats win just 19 House seats, it’ll be a below-average performance historically and a devastating loss.

Now, back here in reality, the Democrats winning 19 seats and landing short of a majority WOULD be a devastating loss, because of the emotional and political momentum we've seen represented in this midterm’s polling and state election results to date. In other words, the context. But it wouldn’t be devastating for the reasons Clapper keeps selling to no one but himself.
   1026. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 11, 2018 at 08:59 PM (#5764929)
NY Times:
Republicans Abandon Vulnerable Lawmakers, Striving to Keep House
As they brace for losses in the House of Representatives, Republican Party leaders are racing to reinforce their candidates in about two-dozen districts, trying to create a barricade around their imperiled majority. They are pouring money and effort mainly into moderate suburban areas, like [Texas Rep. Pete] Sessions’s seat, that they see as critical to holding the chamber by even a one-seat margin. And they have begun to pull millions of dollars away from Republican candidates who have fallen substantially behind in once-competitive races.

.........There are between 60 and 70 Republican-held districts that are being seriously contested, and Democrats, boosted by strong fund-raising, have been expanding their television advertising in conservative-leaning districts in an effort to stretch Republicans thin. National polls have shown most voters favor a Democratic-led House over a Republican one, though the Democrats’ lead has varied.

In a tactical retreat, Republican groups have already withdrawn some or all funding from a few embattled incumbents, mainly in suburbs where President Trump is unpopular, including Representatives Kevin Yoder of Kansas, Mike Coffman of Colorado and Mike Bishop of Michigan. They have abandoned more than half a dozen seats where Republican lawmakers are not running for re-election. On Wednesday they cut loose the Tucson, Ariz.-based seat of Representative Martha McSally, who left to run for Senate.

Party strategists said several other incumbents must recover quickly or risk losing funding, including Representatives Peter Roskam of Illinois and Mimi Walters of California, who represent white-collar suburbs near Chicago and Los Angeles, respectively.

..........“You want to hold your losses to 20 or 22,” [former Rep. and NRCC chairman Tom] Davis said, underscoring Republicans’ vanishingly thin margin for error. “This is the kind of year where Republicans are going to have to give up on some races and they’re going to have to make some hard choices.”

................Democrats believe Republicans will not be able to shrink the House battlefield: Democratic groups have taken an aggressive approach to the map, probing Republican vulnerability even in districts that tilt to the right. The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee recently began advertising in six conservative-leaning seats, from rural Pennsylvania to the suburbs of Little Rock, Ark., where they see Republicans slipping. On Thursday, the group began spending money in a seventh, against Representative Brian Mast of Florida, whose red-hued district stretches north from Palm Beach.

Representative Ben Ray Luján of New Mexico, who chairs the Democratic committee, said the landscape of competitive races was already too broad for Republicans to build an electoral firewall around a chosen few. “Many of these districts are closing our way,” Mr. Luján said, adding: “There are many paths for us to get to a majority.”

Mr. Luján wryly pointed to Mr. Sessions, 63, as an example of Republican distress, noting that the Republican candidate had suggested last year he would not need help from the national party. Now, Mr. Luján said, Mr. Sessions is “calling the cavalry home to see if they can defend that seat” against Colin Allred, his Democratic challenger.

............Private Republican polling has shown conservative voters growing more enthusiastic over the last few weeks, but Democrats are still more energized, and moderate voters are currently leaning their way.

Republicans say they are prepared to make ruthless choices. In the suburbs ringing Philadelphia, for example, they may soon redirect money out of an open-seat race where they are trailing, in Pennsylvania’s 7th Congressional District, and funnel it to Representatives Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania and Tom MacArthur of New Jersey, who are in difficult races. In races where they believe they can rescue embattled incumbents, Republicans must still overcome suspicion among moderate white voters, especially women.
   1027. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 11, 2018 at 09:03 PM (#5764930)
"Duh" is an excellent summation of Clapper’s willful analysis of supposed midterm House pickup norms, which was like taking Snow White, Prince Charming, the Evil Queen and the Seven Dwarfs to calculate the "average height" of the characters.


The true level of his intellectual dishonesty is his switch from the Senate (in his first post) to the House (in his follow ups.)
   1028. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 11, 2018 at 09:07 PM (#5764932)
Looks like soon-to-be 78-year old Donna Shalala may not get to join the septuagenarian-heavy House Democratic Caucus after all. Despite runnng in a District Democrats once thought to be an easy pick-up, Shalala is now trailing in the latest poll

Then it's a very lucky thing for Shalala that the Democrats are awash in money, and aren't being forced to abandon their weaker candidates to die.
   1029. PreservedFish Posted: October 11, 2018 at 09:12 PM (#5764933)
The true level of his intellectual dishonesty is his switch from the Senate (in his first post) to the House (in his follow ups.)


I think he's primarily dishonest with himself, which is why he arouses more pity than annoyance.
   1030. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 11, 2018 at 09:18 PM (#5764934)
"Listen, and understand. The Clapper is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear, or any sense of shame or self-reflection. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until Nancy Pelosi is dead."
   1031. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 11, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5764942)
Zonk:
It is nice he has completely forgotten his own previous trolling about the House though. Remember the days when he talked about average seat gains and how anything less than that would be a loss for the Democrats?


You have caught Clapper-disease. The one where you misidentify the poster. I posted this. It totally works though if you look at it as an homage to all the times he has messed up (just don't apologize, it would ruin the verisimilitude).
   1032. GregD Posted: October 11, 2018 at 09:54 PM (#5764944)
If Kanye is verbally shitting about the 13th in regard to the incarceration state, he's almost certainly doing so in reference to the Netflix documentary, "13th".
I would guess you are right. The film has some good parts and a good heart, but the main historical claim is ridiculous
   1033. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 11, 2018 at 10:10 PM (#5764945)
Looks like soon-to-be 78-year old Donna Shalala may not get to join the septuagenarian-heavy House Democratic Caucus after all. Despite runnng in a District Democrats once thought to be an easy pick-up, Shalala is now trailing in the latest poll [TRIGGER WARNING: Linked article includes photo of a T-Shirt clad Shalala]:


Keep hope alive!

At a 76.4% chance of a win, 538 has that race as the 15th best pickup chance for the Dems. The absolute very best R chance? 66.8% in MN 1. Counting FL 26, there are 18 races more favored for Dems than that.
   1034. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 11, 2018 at 10:14 PM (#5764947)
Mouse, #1031:
You have caught Clapper-disease. The one where you misidentify the poster. I posted this.


Allow me to respond to your claim. The gay Asian judge has impeccable qualifications.
   1035. Shredder Posted: October 11, 2018 at 10:18 PM (#5764952)
If the Republicans keep the House, I probably won't flee the country, but I may try to go to one of those alternate universes where Kanye is some dude in prison. That universe sounds a lot more sensible than this one.
   1036. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 11, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5764953)
@PeoplesCourt79
Interesting how the same ones who are so concerned with their daughters being assaulted in public bathrooms have now proven that they wouldn’t believe them anyway.
   1037. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 11, 2018 at 10:44 PM (#5764954)
#1033:
The absolute very best R chance [for a House pickup]? 66.8% in MN 1.


Everybody keeps forgetting poor PA-14, currently Democratic but very redistricted by the Pennsylvania gerrymandering fix. It now has a 538-rated 99.1% chance of flipping Republican.

It's mostly the old PA-18 district that Conor Lamb just won in the special election, but now it's even redder. Lamb wouldn't have won it, and he is already leaving it for the new PA-17, where he's facing the similarly musical-chaired Keith Rothfus, the current House member from the old PA-12. 538 rates Lamb with a slender 90.5% chance of beating Rothfus. Lamb's special election opponent, Rick Saccone, got knocked out (again) in the Republican primary for the open 18th 14th.

PA-14 v.2018 is literally the only Democratic House seat that Cook Report has rated to the right of "Toss Up." (And there are only two Dem-held Toss Ups, both of which are open seats.)
   1038. Ray (CTL) Posted: October 11, 2018 at 11:46 PM (#5764962)
Oh boy. Kanye is going full cray cray in an Oval Office steam of consciousness rant. Unless I misheard, he said "We don't have a 13th floor on buildings, why do we need a 13th amendment?" he moved seamlessly from to that to I have bi-polar disorder, to showing Trump a picture of a hydrogen powered airplane on his phone, and Trump sitting there with a #### eating grin as if to say "This guy makes a lot of sense."


Watch carefully -- the left has started to vilify and mock Kanye West. Because he refuses to treat Trump as the left does. Moreover he's an African American who is doing so... So he will have to be destroyed.

Watch as the press writes headlines and stories about Kanye's "bizarre White House rant." They'll talk about how he's crazy and bipolar (as Misirlou does above). And yet Kanye hasn't changed - other than his affiliation with Trump.

One thing Kanye did: he didn't get caught up in "IS TRUMP A RACIST??!?!?!" question, which is all the left knows. Instead Kanye moved past that, and simply declared that racism doesn't hold him back.

As someone with influence in the black community who refuses to treat Trump as the devil Kanye is very dangerous to the left.
   1039. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: October 11, 2018 at 11:53 PM (#5764965)
Speaking of a mix of pity and annoyance...
   1040. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 11, 2018 at 11:59 PM (#5764966)
Mark well the day that Kanye West was first called an erratic nutjob who can't shut up: October 11, 2018.
   1041. perros Posted: October 12, 2018 at 12:51 AM (#5764967)
You can tell when Ray's been watching Faux News.
   1042. perros Posted: October 12, 2018 at 12:55 AM (#5764968)
I may try to go to one of those alternate universes where Kanye is some dude in prison. That universe sounds a lot more sensible than this one.


The same one where he's your cellie, I hope.
   1043. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 12, 2018 at 12:57 AM (#5764969)
Looks like soon-to-be 78-year old Donna Shalala may not get to join the septuagenarian-heavy House Democratic Caucus after all. Despite runnng in a District Democrats once thought to be an easy pick-up, Shalala is now trailing in the latest poll

Keep hope alive! At a 76.4% chance of a win, 538 has that race as the 15th best pickup chance for the Dems. The absolute very best R chance? 66.8% in MN 1. Counting FL 26, there are 18 races more favored for Dems than that.

538 gave Shalala a 98.3% chance of winning on September 13, and it's been downhill since then, with Salazar leading in today's poll, apparently the only publicly-released one to date. Sure, Shalala could hang on, but her plummeting fortunes suggest she's not a good candidate. All the pundits had the race in the bag for Shalala, but she could lose.
   1044. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 12, 2018 at 01:34 AM (#5764970)
That much-touted Taylor Swift endorsement doesn't seem to be helping Phil Bredesen in the open-seat Tennessee Senate election. The October polls had him trailing by 5% & 8%, and the NYT-Sienna is out today with a poll that has him trailing Marsha Blackburn by 14%. I suppose it's possible Bredesen would be in worse shape without Taylor's endorsement, but it seems more likely it has had no effect.
   1045. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 12, 2018 at 02:18 AM (#5764971)
Ray is definitely the guy I want hot takes about Kanye West from.

Look, Kanye has certainly immersed himself in controversy over the years. I’m sure for some, his pro Trump stance is a non-starter regardless of reasons. For the rest of us who’ve been increasingly turned off by his antic this year, it’s fairly simple when you listen to him speak on these matters: He has no idea what he’s talking about. His rants are all platitudes and cliches. People, particularly many in the black community, feel put off by. Why would the average black person not be upset about West’s comments? He’s praising someone who has historically not viewed black peoples with much regard and worse yet, he doesn’t appear to have any salient reasons for doing so, other than maybe he identifies with a fellow ego maniac.
   1046. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2018 at 04:14 AM (#5764973)
Yankee Clapper, 7 weeks ago:
What to make of the latest Wisconsin Senate poll where Democratic incumbent Tammy Baldwin has but a 2% margin, 49%-47%, over GOP challenger Leah Vukmir? Wisconsin was not thought to be close by most, as reflected in its initial Likely Democratic RCP Rating, now changed to Leans Democratic.


Mmm, yes, what to make of it? Happily, the increasingly increasing suspense didn't kill our OTP buddy. 538.com currently gives Baldwin a 97.2% chance of clinging to her Senate seat. Her September/October polling has averaged out to a 13% edge. But if we go back far enough to include that "but a 2% margin," her polling lead collapses to just 9.6%.

RCP still has Baldwin as tantalizingly "Leans Democratic," unlike Cook (Likely D) or Sabato (also Likely D). Of course, RCP's valuation may change once they get around to inputting the Ipsos 52%-39% poll that's just three weeks old. Or perhaps after the election.

Baldwin has led by 12%, 9, 16, 17, 14, 2, 8, 11, 13, 14, and 10%. Clapper's quick eye certainly spotted the gold nugget!

Always fun to see Clapper go poll-shopping. He's so choosy.



As for the Donna Shalala deficit, that slender 2% advantage for Maria Salazar can't be a positive sign following Salazar's much heftier 9% lead just three weeks ago. Bonus: the pollster who found that 9% lead for Salazar is McLaughlin & Associates, the same C-minus rated house pollster whose "Comstock is 1% behind" poll so impressed Clapper that he rushed here to cite it.
   1047. Lassus Posted: October 12, 2018 at 06:26 AM (#5764974)
Watch carefully -- the left has started to vilify and mock Kanye West. Because he refuses to treat Trump as the left does.

"Started"?


Mark well the day that Kanye West was first called an erratic nutjob who can't shut up: October 11, 2018.

Maybe Ray will scoop the media on an little-known Taylor Swift episode next week.
   1048. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 07:05 AM (#5764975)
You can tell when Ray's been watching Faux News.


Actually, and I'm surprised nobody noted it yet, but that Ray comment was really aping Scott Adams. It's like a perfect facsimile of his style.

"I understand the secret undercurrents of politics. Allow me to condescend to you and patiently describe how events will unfold over the coming weeks."
   1049. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 12, 2018 at 07:20 AM (#5764976)
If Little Lord Fauntleray wants to defend Kanye in a rap battle I’m game. He’d better come correct though, I breathe hot fire.
   1050. . Posted: October 12, 2018 at 07:37 AM (#5764979)
Looks like one of the primary claims against Weinstein was false. Claimed non-consensual, contemporaneous communication by witness to friend that was consensual. Communication not turned over by prosecution to defense. Count(s) tossed.
   1051. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 12, 2018 at 08:08 AM (#5764983)
The bag of cnvts that brought you "Let's Make That Gay Wedding Cake Thing A Huge Culture War Rallying Cry for the Morons and Ratfcvkers" are working on a sequel. Their latest is built around making up absolutely baseless accusations and destroying the lives of five year old children in service of their cause. Odds are they get this thing in front of their reach-around drinking buddies on the "supreme court" eventually.

an-oakhurst-bathroom-becomes-a-battleground-but-truth-remains-elusive

   1052. . Posted: October 12, 2018 at 08:18 AM (#5764984)
There's no relationship between the two things. You and yours want to force people to speak in favor of your political views and they're rightly pushing back. Good for them. Actual liberals applaud them.
   1053. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 12, 2018 at 08:23 AM (#5764986)
So it has been a while since I looked at the generic ballot. Boring.

538: Democrats +8.3%
RCP: Democrats: +6.9%

Trump approval? Also boring. -9.8%

Things are marching along as they have been for a while. The voters don't seem to like Trump or the GOP much.
   1054. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 08:45 AM (#5764989)
I find the endless poll brandishing by YC and GB to be very strange behavior. "My team is winning." "No, my team is winning!"
   1055. BrianBrianson Posted: October 12, 2018 at 08:45 AM (#5764990)
Yes, Democratic Partisans (and non-Partisan folks) are going to question Kanye's judgement over affiliating himself with Trump. The same would happen if he was recommending mercury enemas to treat acne, or claimed he is Jesus' brother and needs to raise an army to overthrow the government of China, or that he was born on the Moon and needs his fans to form a human pyramid so he can climb back there.

It doesn't reveal much to note that.
   1056. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 12, 2018 at 08:51 AM (#5764993)
I find the endless poll brandishing by YC and GB to be very strange behavior.


I much prefer it to the "opinion asserted as fact" that happens so often here.

"All leftists recline their seats in airplanes! Look at this one statement from this one leftist"
"Republicans worship mayo and jackboots! Read this link for PROOF!"

At least polls consist of actual data, flawed though it might be.
   1057. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 12, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5764995)
Watch carefully -- the left has started to vilify and mock Kanye West. Because he refuses to treat Trump as the left does. Moreover he's an African American who is doing so... So he will have to be destroyed.

Watch as the press writes headlines and stories about Kanye's "bizarre White House rant." They'll talk about how he's crazy and bipolar (as Misirlou does above). And yet Kanye hasn't changed - other than his affiliation with Trump.

One thing Kanye did: he didn't get caught up in "IS TRUMP A RACIST??!?!?!" question, which is all the left knows. Instead Kanye moved past that, and simply declared that racism doesn't hold him back.

As someone with influence in the black community who refuses to treat Trump as the devil Kanye is very dangerous to the left.


Of course, another member of the black community - with influence in it, too - had this to say about Kanye West back in 2009 when he did the bizarre awards intercession.

But then, Ray just isn't a very smart fellow... or at least, he's got an awfully short attention.

Racism is "all" the left knows [about Trump]?

Why, I beg to differ.

I think we've also called him on sexism, his rapeyness, his authoritarianism, his stupidity and ridiculousness, his complete lack of morality, his embrace of tyrannical dictators and disdain for western democracies, and on and on and on.

Indeed, is there any negative thing about a person we have NOT applied to Trump?

That's an honest question, because I do want to make sure we don't miss anything.

Kanye's a hell of an artist who has demonstrated he has some mental health issues - a narcissistic personality at minimum - for quite a long time.

The fact that Trump - and I guess you, too - think that yesterday's surreal craziness is going to have a positive impact on pulling black voters towards Trump says quite a lot about both of you.
   1058. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:01 AM (#5764997)
I much prefer it to the "opinion asserted as fact" that happens so often here ...At least polls consist of actual data, flawed though it might be.


Well, sure.

I've re-read Ray's Kanye comment several times because I can't actually wrap my mind around how bad it is, in so many ways.
   1059. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:02 AM (#5764998)
Indeed, is there any negative thing about a person we have NOT applied to Trump?


Donald Trump is Lenny Dykstra with a large inheritance cushion.
   1060. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:04 AM (#5765001)
If Little Lord Fauntleray wants to defend Kanye in a rap battle I’m game. He’d better come correct though, I breathe hot fire.


For mainstream battle champions who would destroy the Yeezy, Kendrick's the easy tag out partner. If you want to go a little more relevant and new, you can't get much better than 6lack.
   1061. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:11 AM (#5765005)
Donald Trump is Lenny Dykstra with a large inheritance cushion.


He lacks the eye or patience to take a pitch, though.
   1062. . Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:12 AM (#5765006)
While these things occasionally take time to develop, I don't recall people saying Kanye had mental health issues when he called W a racist.
   1063. . Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5765007)
I much prefer it to the "opinion asserted as fact" that happens so often here ...At least polls consist of actual data, flawed though it might be.


And how true that is; it's not like polls measure public *opinion* or anything.
   1064. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:18 AM (#5765012)
I find the endless poll brandishing by YC and GB to be very strange behavior. "My team is winning." "No, my team is winning!"
What’s really strange about it is that neither is correct. Polls are not actual votes; the score remains tied at 0-0 until November 6. Touting poll results is like touting the betting line for a sporting event.
   1065. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:19 AM (#5765014)
I think Kanye is an extraordinary artist, exciting, genius, vital even. He's a poor rapper, always has been. You can listen back at "Through the Wire," one of his first hits, and not notice that his jaw is literally wired shut, because it doesn't sound too different from his regular delivery. I suspect he'd be toast in a freestyle tournament.
   1066. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:20 AM (#5765015)
Indeed, is there any negative thing about a person we have NOT applied to Trump?




Donald Trump is Lenny Dykstra with a large inheritance cushion.


I reckon we're pretty safe in assuming Trump never did steroids ...
   1067. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:30 AM (#5765019)
While these things occasionally take time to develop, I don't recall people saying Kanye had mental health issues when he called W a racist.


I suppose it was four years later, but Fishsticks wasn't exactly laudatory of his stability...
   1068. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5765021)
If Little Lord Fauntleray wants to defend Kanye in a rap battle I’m game. He’d better come correct though, I breathe hot fire.

For mainstream battle champions who would destroy the Yeezy, Kendrick's the easy tag out partner. If you want to go a little more relevant and new, you can't get much better than 6lack.


No, I want to battle the Little Lord. He's down with Yeezy now, so let's see what he's got. I think the Little Lord is wackness made flesh. Prove me wrong, human veal.
   1069. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:33 AM (#5765022)
While these things occasionally take time to develop, I don't recall people saying Kanye had mental health issues when he called W a racist.


You know what also hadn't happened back when Kanye called W a racist? Kanye hadn't yet publicly announced that he had mental health issues.
   1070. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:40 AM (#5765025)
1. No one with any slight knowledge of his general mindset, stability and outlook, would have ever taken Kanye West seriously as a serious political actor. Neither in 2005, nor now.

2. Then again, Kanye West is essentially as mentally, emotionally and psychologically capable of being President as is Donald Trump, so people are clearly ####### morons.
   1071. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:47 AM (#5765027)
This seems like a monumentally bad waste of time and $39.68.

Two young Arizona Republicans tried to make a donation to a Democratic congressman as members of the Communist party in an apparent attempt to tie him to the far left.

On Friday afternoon, two men who called themselves Jose Rosales and Ahmahd Sadia walked into the campaign office of first-term Democrat Tom O’Halleran with $39.68 and an urgent desire for the Northern Arizona University Communist party to be given a receipt for the donation.
The pair initially walked in to sign up to volunteer but had brought along a jar full of money that they wished to donate. After being directed to a finance staffer, they were told to fill out paperwork. In doing so, they identified themselves as members of the Northern Arizona University Communist party. They made clear they were not an official group but were holding meetings. But they also insisted upon a receipt.

When told they get only an emailed receipt, Rosales immediately scratched out one email and wrote another. The entire process raised eyebrows among O’Halleran’s staff.

Lindsay Coleman, the finance director for the campaign, then drove to the local Republican field office to return the money. Almost immediately, the man who identified himself as Rosales appeared from a room inside the office and was identified as Oscar. He accepted the money from Coleman.


But then, I clearly do not understand Trumpism.
   1072. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:51 AM (#5765029)
1048. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 07:05 AM (#5764975)
You can tell when Ray's been watching Faux News.


Actually, and I'm surprised nobody noted it yet, but that Ray comment was really aping Scott Adams. It's like a perfect facsimile of his style.

"I understand the secret undercurrents of politics. Allow me to condescend to you and patiently describe how events will unfold over the coming weeks."

Of note, Scott Adams is also all-in on the “Kanye West is a Master Persuader just like Trump” theory (and has been for years). It wouldn’t surprise me if Ray pulled that screed straight from an Adams periscope.
   1073. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5765034)
Of note, Scott Adams is also all-in on the “Kanye West is a Master Persuader just like Trump” theory. It wouldn’t surprise me if Ray pulled that screed straight from an Adams periscope.


Scott Adams' entire theory of "persuasion" amounts to star-#######.
   1074. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5765035)
Scott Adams is also all-in on the “Kanye West is a Master Persuader just like Trump” theory.


Oooh, do tell. Details please. There's no denying that Kanye's narcissism, yen for controversy and general wackiness has helped him stay in the public eye, and sell more records. Does the theory go beyond that? Does he think that Kanye has political persuasion powers??

I used to get a kick out of reading Adams but he's moved to a mostly video format that I can't be bothered with.

   1075. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:58 AM (#5765037)
1054. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 08:45 AM (#5764989)
I find the endless poll brandishing by YC and GB to be very strange behavior. "My team is winning." "No, my team is winning!"


The craziest thing to me is that, you know...the guy behind 538.com is a baseball nerd just like us! And he explains exactly how we are supposed to interpret the polls (“Ignore outliers, don’t obsess over day-to-day fluctuations, just examine broad trends”) in a way that makes perfect sense.....but then we ignore it all in favor of “Holy ####, Blue Team is up 11 now, last week they were down 2!”
   1076. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 12, 2018 at 09:59 AM (#5765038)
Oooh, do tell. Details please. There's no denying that Kanye's narcissism, yen for controversy and general wackiness has helped him stay in the public eye, and sell more records.


I think you have to watch a youtube video - not sure if he's written it out yet, but this for example.

No, I did not watch it.

Though, it DOES have a whiteboard -- presumably, so Adams can continue to pretend he's like Glenn Beck but better.
   1077. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 12, 2018 at 10:11 AM (#5765043)
They'll talk about how he's crazy and bipolar (as Misirlou does above).


Um, I didn't call him bi-polar. He called himself that and I was quoting him (well, technically describing what he said). And on the subject of technicality, I didn't call him crazy either. I said he's acting crazy.
   1078. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5765045)
I think you have to watch a youtube video

Not gonna happen.
   1079. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 12, 2018 at 10:23 AM (#5765046)
1074 -

Here’s Scott Adams back in 2015, giving Kanye a 90% shot at the Presidency

I have very bad news for all of you Kanye haters.

He’s the real deal.

If you are following my Trump Persuasion Series in this blog, you know I like to make predictions through what I call the Master Wizard Filter. This hypothesis says that at any point in time there are a small number of linguistic geniuses that shape human history, and they are generally hiding in plain sight.

The linguistic wizards – should such hypothetical creatures exist – use the science of persuasion to shape opinions of those around them and sometimes the public at large. (In the old days it was less about science, obviously, and probably more about trying different things, observing what worked, and maybe sharing methods.)

My opinion as a trained hypnotist is that if such linguistic wizards exist, Kanye West is already near the top of that list. I watched his “overlong, rambling” speech for persuasion technique and find it to be a masterpiece. Literally. It might be his finest work, and I’m saying that as a fan of his music.


And also:

Someone asked me about Kanye West and his hilarious statement that he would someday run for president.

Ridiculous, right?

Except that Kanye is a wizard.

I spotted him several years ago, and blogged about his genius then. He’s the real deal. And he absolutely has the tools to become president if he makes it a priority.

Consider the reaction you are having right now to the idea that Kanye West could be president. Your reaction (plus the fact that he is a legitimate genius) is what tells you he can do it. At least according to my filter.

Oh, and he’s a musical superstar who admits he can’t sing well. How did that happen, you ask?
   1080. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 12, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5765048)
And BTW, had Ray bothered to go to the source material and not merely parrot someone else's opinion, he would see that "going full cray cray" is an accurate description of West's stream of consciousness rant. Going from "why do we have a 13th amendment if buildings don't have 13 floors?" to "I am bi-polar" to "Oh, check out this cool hydrogen fueled airplane picture I have on my phone MR. PRESIDENT!" without pausing for a second is nothing but full cray cray.
   1081. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 12, 2018 at 10:47 AM (#5765060)
I like to make predictions through what I call the Master Wizard Filter.


People take this ####### idiot seriously. This is why democracy is just doomed. A population that can't look at Scott Adams and at the very least regret that we've stopped kicking the obviously malformed and useless off the cliffs of Sparta is not a population that can self govern.
   1082. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5765061)
Well, if Kanye wins the White House in 2032, I'll gladly eat ####.
   1083. BrianBrianson Posted: October 12, 2018 at 10:48 AM (#5765062)
The craziest thing to me is that, you know...the guy behind 538.com is a baseball nerd just like us! And he explains exactly how we are supposed to interpret the polls (“Ignore outliers, don’t obsess over day-to-day fluctuations, just examine broad trends”) in a way that makes perfect sense.....but then we ignore it all in favor of “Holy ####, Blue Team is up 11 now, last week they were down 2!”


Apart from one or two outliers, "we" don't obsess over individual polls, or fluctuations that're probably noise. Ds are up ~8 on the generic ballot, are likely to win the house, unlikely to win the senate - and that hasn't much changed since the start. So the sensible people don't have much to say about it, for the most part. The odds 538 calcs bounce around a little, but probably not in a way that's terribly meaningful. I think the only change I've seen that's of any importance is that Heidkamp is doing worse in local polls than fundamentals + generic ballot would make you expect, which is making (D)s taking the senate look a little harder than you would've guessed (but really, even there, 538 has moved from ~30% to ~20%, which isn't really meaningfully different).
   1084. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 12, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5765069)
Apart from one or two outliers, "we" don't obsess over individual polls, or fluctuations that're probably noise. Ds are up ~8 on the generic ballot, are likely to win the house, unlikely to win the senate - and that hasn't much changed since the start. So the sensible people don't have much to say about it, for the most part.


Yup.
   1085. DJS Holiday-Related Pun Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5765073)
Apart from one or two outliers, "we" don't obsess over individual polls, or fluctuations that're probably noise. Ds are up ~8 on the generic ballot, are likely to win the house, unlikely to win the senate - and that hasn't much changed since the start.

Yeah, it's kinda weird how obsessed a few are over each individual poll that comes out. You see this in baseball, too; there's a group of people who will email me or tweet at me every time a player with a poor projection has a good game. But obviously, Ian Desmond hitting two homers in one game or going 0-for-4 strikeouts in another particular game just isn't all that important. The polls are only really interesting when they tell a story of a changed trend, at least to me.
   1086. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5765074)
The headline: Pope accepts embattled DC Cardinal Wuerl’s resignation

This is true! But....His Holiness then immediately asked Wuerl to stay on as "Apostolic Administrator of the Archdiocese" until a successor is appointed. Oh, and he's remaining on the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity and the Congregation for Bishops.

Guys guys guys, hear me out on this: could hierarchies be bad????
   1087. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5765075)
Ian Desmond hitting two homers in one game could, probably *is* in fact "all that important;" homers help win games. And his going 0-4 in another is important; wasted at bats lose games. Neither individual event should change our general idea of his overall probably production, but individually, those events ARE important. Winning games means something.

The proper allegory to the constant poll-humping would be Ian Desmond hitting multiple homers *in batting practice.*
   1088. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5765076)
Can we spot some other wizards?

1. The wizard succeeds in a high-profile field without the benefit of as much talent as you would expect should be necessary. (This is the biggest tell.)

2. People seem to have an irrational hate for the wizard that is not entirely explained by the wizard’s actions. Regular readers already know these unusual reactions are signs of cognitive dissonance. Wizards induce cognitive dissonance often, without trying.

3. Look for an inflated ego combined with an unusually strong ability to withstand withering criticism. (Wizards get a lot of criticism.) The common view is that wizards are egomaniacs. In reality, the wizard works hard to remain ego-free, and hence can handle criticism well.

4. Wizards are often more ambitious, and often more aggressive, than you think is normal.

5. One or more major PR disasters define the wizard’s history.

6. The wizard has a gift for simplification.

7. Observers detect a reality distortion field.

8. Wizards have an ability to succeed where other fail by changing the entire game as opposed to winning at the existing one.

9. Wizards use words to create images and emotions in people’s minds.

10. Wizards seek public attention.


Paris Hilton, perhaps?
   1089. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:12 AM (#5765079)
MAGA Twitter update:

@Ray6971
So Google is celebrating a #Communist country today...
   1090. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5765081)
Some actual perspective!
@ChrisMurphyCT
I’m as outraged about #Kashoggi as anyone.

But for the last two years the United States has HELPED the Saudis kill thousands of Yemeni civilians, including scores of children, with impunity.

Isn’t that worse? Like much worse?
   1091. perros Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5765082)
going full cray cray" is an accurate description of West's stream of consciousness rant. Going from "why do we have a 13th amendment if buildings don't have 13 floors?" to "I am bi-polar" to "Oh, check out this cool hydrogen fueled airplane picture I have on my phone MR. PRESIDENT!" without pausing for a second is nothing but full cray cray.


Who does this remind you of?

PF, 2014: "Well, if Trump wins the White House in 2016, I'll gladly eat ####."

People take this ####### idiot seriously. This is why democracy is just doomed. A population that can't look at Scott Adams and at the very least regret that we've stopped kicking the obviously malformed and useless off the cliffs of Sparta is not a population that can self govern.


Since when is the population of Rays a people?

The thing is, Adams and the other 'Masters' are effectively exploiting a huge hole in the liberal swing, which is rationally judging comments as thoughts, and at face value. Adams and 'Geniuses" are using a persuasion method beyond the one he's spouting, which is basically to get you tracked on the idea of Kanye as Prez (or whatever), no matter how nuts it is on the surface. And even more simply, walking back the outrageous to where you settle for an politicsl atrocity like kidnapping immigrant kids or putting a shithead on the Supreme Court.

   1092. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5765085)
Not a poll ... Beto O'Rourke raised $38.1 million in last three months, smashing all records in bid to oust Ted Cruz

O'Rourke's haul is more than triple the $12 million that Cruz said he raised from July through September. Combined, the rivals have raised roughly $86 million but the challenger's tally of $61.2 million vastly eclipses the incumbent's $24.9 million.


It is still doubtful Beto wins, but it is fun watching Cruz squirm. One possible downstream impact of all this money is that it should (in theory) help the down ballot Democratic candidates that might normally not have so much state wide money driving turn out.

Of course Texas has long been a Democratic White Whale, if it ever turns blue (to mix color metaphors) the GOP will feel the hurt.
   1093. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5765087)
While these things occasionally take time to develop, I don't recall people saying Kanye had mental health issues when he called W a racist.


Interestingly enough, there was a Katrina thread - a very active and long one primarily with appeals to donate... I might have missed some, but Kanye West's comments didn't actually got relatively limited play.

Here's what I found - I think the age of the thread and whatnot might have caused some missing posts because some of the back-and-forth I don't find, but anyway...

2733. Howie Menckel Posted: September 03, 2005 at 02:01 PM (#1595177)
A tip to those who don't wear tinfoil hats:
You don't want to be 'rahrah'-ing that singer's comments. It was about as appropriate at that moment as a fart in an airlock. Trust me on this. I saw it live.

You have countless singers, actors, etc. on the show. ZERO politics. Very serious. People like Harry Conick Jr (voice almost gone), Aaron Neville, Tim McGraw, Eli Manning - Louisiana people, many of them quite shaken up.
The entire focus was on raising money for the Red Cross and on SAVING PEOPLE'S LIVES. Lots of information on what it will take to do that, in between songs of a somber nature. Nobody was d$icking around here. Pretty powerful stuff.

Then this clown comes on, rambling about how he's going to "call his manager" to see how much he can give. Gee, thanks. Then the obligatory photo-caption reference. But until his infamous last comment as they cut away, the whole thing was incoherent. Buried the lead, as journalists say.
I'd say the same he it was criticizing any politician, or agency, of any stripe. This was NOT the place. The stakes - life and death - are higher than someone's rant at the moment.

Next month, they'll have some music awards, and I'll say bash away, fellas. But at that moment, this dude blew it bigtime.



2766. Scoriano Flitcraft Posted: September 03, 2005 at 04:07 PM (#1595257)
HM, I'm not on a high horse. You might be for criticizing someone that is agitated enough to speak out about it.

There is more than one way to save lives. You can raise money privately. You can agitate for better policy. These two means needs not be separate as the goal of saving lives is the same. The means can be/should be linked. Pal.

To be clear, I don't necessarily agree with West's sound bite view of the President, but I agree with the short-term pressure he was attempting to bring to bear, and his raising the race issue. It's a serious issue, that deserves far more serious consideration than a sound bite, but should not be dismissed.


2767. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: September 03, 2005 at 04:23 PM (#1595266)
But at that moment, this dude blew it bigtime.
GF and I didn't see it as "blowing it" as much as "losing it."


2770. Jesse Posted: September 03, 2005 at 04:28 PM (#1595273)
GF and I didn't see it as "blowing it" as much as "losing it."

Yeah, I think that's about right. I don't know if it was the right time and place for that sort of thing, but it came from the heart. He was as nervous as can be, probably frustrated and angry and sad. I can sympathize.

Anyone who decides not to give money because Kanye West spoke his mind is contemptible.


2773. Chip Posted: September 03, 2005 at 04:35 PM (#1595278)
To be clear, I don't necessarily agree with West's sound bite view of the President, but I agree with the short-term pressure he was attempting to bring to bear, and his raising the race issue. It's a serious issue, that deserves far more serious consideration than a sound bite, but should not be dismissed.

Besides, what's wrong with using a soundbite or two to respond to a man who, however smart he may be, has a depth of thought which never seems to extend beyond the soundbite? Witness the "we couldn't anticipate the levees would break" comment. Witness the Trent Lott vacation home comments. Stupid, callous, uninformed soundbites from a man completely out-of-touch with the world around him.

I can't blame West or anyone else who soundbites a big chunk out of Bush's ass after either of those.


2780. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 03, 2005 at 05:06 PM (#1595303)
If he wants to rail against Bush outside of the telethon, more power to him. But there is a time and a place for that.

Absolutely agree. The criticism for the President (and everyone else beneath him) shouldn't be that they're racists -- they're NOT -- but that they hadn't done everything within their power to help people get out of NOLA. THAT'S the failure.

I cut West a lot of slack, though. If there were tens of thousands of Chinese people stuck there begging for help and not getting it for days, I'd think that government hated Chinese people.


2795. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: September 03, 2005 at 05:36 PM (#1595347)
But the point of the telethon is to raise money. If he caused the Red Cross to lose donations, how is that beneficial to the crisis at hand?

It also doesn't matter if it's right or wrong that someone would be offended and not send a check out. I personally think it would be wrongheaded, but since we can't control what people do, the need to not anger people at that time and that time only was crucial.

If he wants to rail against Bush outside of the telethon, more power to him. But there is a time and a place for that.



Kanye's comments seemed out of place because nobody on the program was talking about ####. They are the only thing on the show that goes beyond the response of "this just happened to go down and now we'll throw money at it" and toward "let's make sure that this doesn't happen again".

Remember the riots when the police formed a barricade to prevent riots from entering the rich white neighborhoods. That's great, unless of course they left the Korean American neighborhoods wide-open. The America West has seen is not the one a lot of us has seen, and so he, nervous as hell, decided to address that difference.

Of course he sounded like he didn't know what he was talking about next to the folks reading the teleprompter. He did it all off the head. He was nervous, didn't know what to say, but put everything on his courage and spoke. That's heroic. It's what this country is supposed to be about.

Finally, if you think West's comments really cost the Red Cross money, you must really have a low opinion of the American people. Instead of commenting on the "scope" of the tragedy, he commented in a way that reminded people of the humanity of those affected. That should increase donations.

If some black guy speaking his mind makes people so angry that they go out and loot buy a bunch of worthless #### instead of donating, that's scary to me.

It's possible though, the NBC affiliate in Chicago reported being flooded with calls, more calls than during the rest of the hurricane coverage. I guess some people are more outraged that they had to listen to a dissenting opinion than they are about the people dying in the South.


2815. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: September 03, 2005 at 07:04 PM (#1595438)
Kanye West is actually a pretty good artist.

off to the sox game.


2816. The Original SJ Posted: September 03, 2005 at 07:08 PM (#1595441)
KAnye West is a little too jesus-y for me.


2817. GregD Posted: September 03, 2005 at 07:08 PM (#1595442)
Actually I enjoyed his performance at Live 8 (Kanye West.) He did give a long and confusing and factually challenged speech about how AIDS was created by the CIA specifically against black people. I'm a good lefty and accept that the government grotesquely ignored the spread of AIDS because of racism and homophobia...but I'm skeptical that William Casey was up in the lab testing different strains to make sure they didn't actually pick out the one that took out Cubans or Koreans...


2909. Flynn Posted: September 03, 2005 at 10:31 PM (#1595797)
On Kanye West:

He was right.

That's all you need to know.


3096. Bowling Baseball Fan Posted: September 04, 2005 at 07:57 AM (#1596653)
It amazes me that in a thread called "BAN Kanye West's music" over on bowltech, there is a guy that actually thinks everything got better the second Bush took control of the situation.

I don't know if I want what he's having.


Few more in the next couple pages, but not a whole lot of discussion, actually.... or at least, relatively.



   1094. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5765089)
PF, 2014: "Well, if Trump wins the White House in 2016, I'll gladly eat ####."


I don't know if I was glad about it, but yeah, couldn't have been more wrong about that one.
   1095. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:26 AM (#5765092)
It is still doubtful Beto wins, but it is fun watching Cruz squirm. One possible downstream impact of all this money is that it should (in theory) help the down ballot Democratic candidates that might normally not have so much state wide money driving turn out.


He really needs to be spreading that dough around - expensive state though it is, he's basically got more COH than he can really spend... ESPECIALLY since, until fairly late, he actually wasn't doing much in the way of TV.

   1096. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5765095)
MAGA Twitter update:

@Ray6971
So Google is celebrating a #Communist country today...


I can't tell if that guy is being serious or not. If so, WOW!
   1097. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5765097)
Michigan looked like one of the (R) guv mansions they were going to lose anyway, but this clip that Bill Shuette has now apologized for won't help.

Creepy is actually the perfect word for it.
   1098. perros Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5765100)
I've re-read Ray's Kanye comment several times because I can't actually wrap my mind around how bad it is, in so many ways.


Ray's too embarrassed to admit his role model is Hannity.

My real bone is against the indiscriminate use of thr word 'Left' to describe liberals. Sure, a lot has filtered in to the mainstream, but you've got have the understanding of how material reality fundamentally determines social relationships through the economic dynamic of capitalism.

The how is incredibly complex, but you've got to get past the idea that we are all beautiful snowflakes rather than the black slush slowly draining into the gutter.
   1099. perros Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5765104)
Creepy is actually the perfect word for it.


Works as an outtake from Carnal Knowledge.
   1100. Zonk is One Individual Posted: October 12, 2018 at 11:52 AM (#5765105)
Creepy is actually the perfect word for it.

Works as an outtake from Carnal Knowledge.


I got more of a Patrick Bateman vibe from it, but sure - that's probably a better one.
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