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Tuesday, September 11, 2018

OTP 2018 September 10: Former executive Neil McMillan reflects on a long career in baseball, politics and mining

Neil McMillan never made it to the big league, but that hasn’t stopped the former politician, financier and mining executive from blaming his success on the time he spent on the pitcher’s mound all those years ago.

“The real difference in my career … has been a function of my attitude, and it starts out as a willingness or a drive to risk failure,” said McMillan, who recently retired from his last job as chairman of the uranium miner Cameco Corp.

Politics was something of a second choice for McMillan, after a physician ended his lifelong dream of flying for the Snowbirds.

After Trudeau-hating voters turfed him out of office — the alternative would have have been to jump ship and run as a Conservative, an idea he wasn’t prepared to indulge — McMillan spent almost two decades working in finance, as a broker.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 11, 2018 at 08:06 AM | 1379 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: canada, off topic, politics

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Page 14 of 14 pages ‹ First  < 12 13 14
   1301. perros Posted: September 16, 2018 at 10:57 PM (#5745304)
Per 1285

This was already looking like the Election Year of the Woman, Part 2*, but that blue wave could well become a blue hurricane now.

*Part One directly followed the Thomas hearing.
   1302. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 16, 2018 at 10:58 PM (#5745305)
I'm sorry but you and Clapper can't go on and on about "anonymous accuser" before the fact and then when she comes forward not have that affect your analysis or conclusions in even the slightest detectable way. I too was willing to give Kavanaugh every benefit of the doubt against an anonymous accuser. But once she came forward I changed my view. This is a significant development.

It affects my analysis, in that when the accusation was anonymous I didn't think it should be given the time of day; it should have been treated as though the accusation had not been made at all. Now that it's got a person attached to it, it should be acknowledged. But that doesn't mean it should change the conclusion. As much as it rewards terrible behavior (and incentivizes future terrible behavior) I don't think there's any way to avoid having a hearing on the matter now. She needs to make the accusation under oath and he needs to deny it under oath.

Oh, my, yet another comment whose conclusion I agree with. Obviously the person who wrote it must be retarded.
   1303. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:01 PM (#5745307)

Well, because DiFi cared more about the victim's wishes.

Which, you know, decent human beings try to focus on.
No. We're talking about whether to give someone a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court; the accuser's (not victim's) feelings really aren't the most important thing there. Moreover, if the accuser really didn't want to be involved, she wouldn't have sent the letter in the first place.
   1304. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:02 PM (#5745310)
If Ms. Ford's allegations are now considered even marginally credible, how can Senator Feinstein's handling of them be appropriate? Senator Feinstein: (1) didn't share the allegations with the Committee Chairman; (2) didn't share the allegations with her Democratic colleagues; (3) didn't raise the matter in her private pre-hearing meeting with Kavanaugh; (4) didn't raise the matter in her questioning of Kavanaugh at his hearing; (5) didnt raise the matter in any of the 1,287 post-hearing written questions directed to Kavanaugh; (6) didn't raise the matter in the closed meeting the Committee had with Kavanaugh, which is for the express purpose of considering matters that might not be appropriate for a public session (Feinstein reportedly didn't even attend the closed session); and (7) didn't do anything with the letter until her receipt of it was publicized. At a minimum, shouldn't Feinstein now release the letter since the need for confidentiality no longer exists? As well as any subsequent communications between Feinstein, or her staff, and Ms. Ford or her attorney? What did Ford do or say that caused Feinstein to just sit on her letter?


It appears that Ford said "I expect my story will be kept confidential," which is what caused Feinstein to just sit on her letter.

From the WaPo story:

In the letter, which was read to The Post, Ford described the incident and said she expected her story to be kept confidential. She signed the letter as Christine Blasey, the name she uses professionally.

Note that Ford did sign the letter, so Feinstein herself knew that there was a real person behind the letter.

I will take this moment to say that my previous criticism of Feinstein was misplaced. It appears that Feinstein (a) found the story credible but (b) was trying to honor Ford's wishes.

Later the fact that Feinstein had a letter that she was refusing to share leaked -- it was published by The Intercept -- and following that Feinstein confirmed the existence of the letter.

   1305. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:08 PM (#5745320)
I will take this moment to say that my previous criticism of Feinstein was misplaced. It appears that Feinstein (a) found the story credible but (b) was trying to honor Ford's wishes.

Later the fact that Feinstein had a letter that she was refusing to share leaked -- it was published by The Intercept -- and following that Feinstein confirmed the existence of the letter.


Here's the salient part of that Post story:
As the story snowballed, Ford said, she heard people repeating inaccuracies about her and, with the visits from reporters, felt her privacy being chipped away. Her calculation changed.

“These are all the ills that I was trying to avoid,” she said, explaining her decision to come forward. “Now I feel like my civic responsibility is outweighing my anguish and terror about retaliation.”

[Ford's lawyer Debra] Katz said she believes Feinstein honored Ford’s request to keep her allegation confidential, but “regrettably others did not.”

“Victims must have the right to decide whether to come forward, especially in a political environment that is as ruthless as this one,” Katz said.
   1306. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5745322)

It appears that Ford said "I expect my story will be kept confidential," which is what caused Feinstein to just sit on her letter.
I always provide information to the media and to members of Congress about prominent events and expect that nobody will know about it.

(And that's not what was reported about Feinstein. What was reported about Feinstein is that she didn't think it was significant enough to bring up.)

And of course the existence of the letter somehow mysteriously got leaked in order to force Feinstein's hand in releasing the information about the letter and telling numerous members of the media who the author was so that they would contact her and convince her to come forward.
   1307. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:11 PM (#5745323)
@alexkotch:
In addition to hawking sham supplements, Ben Shapiro is also selling doomsday prepper food lolol

A affirmative action conservative guy leading light of the Republican intellectual movement, folks.
   1308. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:13 PM (#5745325)
Megan McArdle:
I would be cool with a teen murderer getting a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court. I think there's good reason we expunge juvenile records, and would raise the expungement age to 21.

Conservative affirmative action...it's not just for men!
   1309. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:15 PM (#5745328)
Isn't it just awful that Republicans weighing Brett Kavanaugh's record weren't given a fair and timely chance to review a document that was kept from them?
   1310. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:15 PM (#5745329)
I'm sorry but you and Clapper can't go on and on about "anonymous accuser" before the fact and then when she comes forward not have that affect your analysis or conclusions in even the slightest detectable way. I too was willing to give Kavanaugh every benefit of the doubt against an anonymous accuser. But once she came forward I changed my view. This is a significant development.

It affects my analysis, in that when the accusation was anonymous I didn't think it should be given the time of day; it should have been treated as though the accusation had not been made at all.


According to the WaPo story that's exactly what Feinstein did -- until The Intercept reported the fact of the letter.

Now that it's got a person attached to it, it should be acknowledged. But that doesn't mean it should change the conclusion. As much as it rewards terrible behavior (and incentivizes future terrible behavior) I don't think there's any way to avoid having a hearing on the matter now. She needs to make the accusation under oath and he needs to deny it under oath. But if that's all there is -- a bare accusation, with no corroboration or pattern of conduct -- it shouldn't change anything.


Having a hearing is a reasonable approach, although I don't think we'd learn much, and if the situation remains status quo from now I wouldn't confirm him. I do think there's a chance that the FBI investigation will move the needle, but you're right that very likely we'll never know with any certainty what occurred.

I do see now that you've changed your analysis a bit following her stepping forward, as you explain above.
   1311. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:17 PM (#5745330)
She told a therapist in 2012, before Kavanaugh was in the consciousness of the general public.

That's not really accurate. Kavanaugh's nearly 3-year confirmation battle for the DC Circuit was a pretty big story that many who followed politics closely would have been aware of, and it's quite possible that a Democratic activist and donor such as Ms. Ford would be in that group. More importantly, by early 2012 all she had to do is read the New Yorker, which featured a screed by Jeffrey Toobin demonizing Kavanaugh and ominously warning: "If a Republican, any Republican, wins in November, his most likely first nominee to the Supreme Court will be Brett Kavanaugh."
   1312. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:18 PM (#5745334)
Moreover, if the accuser really didn't want to be involved, she wouldn't have sent the letter in the first place.


Sure. I can see it as a tough spot to be in, though. You don't want to be involved but you feel you have a moral obligation to say what you know.

Ford does seem to have tried to keep her name out of it.
   1313. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:20 PM (#5745335)
Ben Shapiro is also selling doomsday prepper food lolo
I'm sorry, but I don't quite get the joke here. He's not selling them; his advertiser is. And they're not even marketing them as "doomsday prepper," but as emergency preparedness.
   1314. tshipman Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:21 PM (#5745336)
No. We're talking about whether to give someone a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court; the accuser's (not victim's) feelings really aren't the most important thing there. Moreover, if the accuser really didn't want to be involved, she wouldn't have sent the letter in the first place.


Yes, they ####### are.

Have you ever talked to a woman who has experienced something like this? Try it.
   1315. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:23 PM (#5745338)
That's not really accurate. Kavanaugh's nearly 3-year confirmation battle for the DC Circuit was a pretty big story that many who followed politics closely would have been aware of, and it's quite possible that a Democratic activist and donor such as Ms. Ford would be in that group. More importantly, by early 2012 all she had to do is read the New Yorker, which featured a screed by Jeffrey Toobin demonizing Kavanaugh and ominously warning: "If a Republican, any Republican, wins in November, his most likely first nominee to the Supreme Court will be Brett Kavanaugh."


Trump has taught us that if you re explaining, you are losing. Yeah, it's possible none of that is true but so what? It's out there, therefore it's fact. Now, should we be better than Trump? Of course we should. But it's quite rich for the Trumpiest of Trumpkins to be complaining about incorrect allegations. Someone said something loud and proud. That's all that matters.
   1316. perros Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5745341)
For one ####### minute can we stop thinking of things from the alleged aggressor's perspective?


Everyone here's got sausage and eggs on their plate.
   1317. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:25 PM (#5745342)
It appears that Ford said "I expect my story will be kept confidential," which is what caused Feinstein to just sit on her letter.

I always provide information to the media and to members of Congress about prominent events and expect that nobody will know about it.


To the media? Who? Ford? I didn't read that Ford told the media anything. I read she told members of Congress and an attorney.

(And that's not what was reported about Feinstein. What was reported about Feinstein is that she didn't think it was significant enough to bring up.)

And of course the existence of the letter somehow mysteriously got leaked in order to force Feinstein's hand in releasing the information about the letter and telling numerous members of the media who the author was so that they would contact her and convince her to come forward.


Who are you suggesting leaked it? Feinstein? Ford? I can't say but there were others involved. There were Katz and the FBI and the therapist and presumably congressional staffers.....
   1318. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:29 PM (#5745344)

To the media? Who? Ford? I didn't read that Ford told the media anything. I heard she told members of Congress and an attorney.
From the Washington Post's story from earlier today when she came forward:
She contacted The Post through a tip line in early July, when it had become clear that Kavanaugh was on the shortlist of possible nominees to replace retiring justice Anthony M. Kennedy but before Trump announced his name publicly. A registered Democrat who has made small contributions to political organizations, she contacted her congresswoman, Democrat Anna G. Eshoo, around the same time. In late July, she sent a letter via Eshoo’s office to Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee.
   1319. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:31 PM (#5745347)
Yes, they ####### are.
No, they ####### aren't.

And again, if she felt so strongly about her privacy then she should have kept it to herself.
   1320. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:31 PM (#5745348)
1318: Ok.
   1321. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:33 PM (#5745349)
To the media? Who? Ford? I didn't read that Ford told the media anything. I heard she told members of Congress and an attorney.

The WaPo story says Ford contacted their tip line. Is it really coincidental that Ms. Ford put herself in the position to inevitably be the reluctantly outted witness? And that the timing just happens to come right before the vote but too late for her story to be pursued during the hearings?
   1322. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:33 PM (#5745350)
I would be cool with a teen murderer getting a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court. I think there's good reason we expunge juvenile records, and would raise the expungement age to 21.


Conservative affirmative action...it's not just for men!

Not sure what's so horrible about that opinion. Teenagers are not fully formed human beings. If one does something unspeakably terrible but then maintains a spotless record as an adult, I wouldn't forever hold that act against them.

I can respect someone's SC standard being "near-perfection from birth". I don't think it has to be anything like that, though.
   1323. Howie Menckel Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:37 PM (#5745351)
Yes, they ####### are.

Have you ever talked to a woman who has experienced something like this? Try it.

either I missed a response (quite possible), or you did.

and beyond that, yes.
   1324. tshipman Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:37 PM (#5745352)
Is it really coincidental that Ms. Ford put herself in the position to inevitably be the reluctantly outted witness? And that the timing just happens to come right before the vote but too late for it to be pursued during the hearings?


This is ####### disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.
   1325. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:41 PM (#5745353)
I can respect someone's SC standard being "near-perfection" from birth. I don't think it has to be anything like that, though.


I agree. However, what David said in #1254 applies:

I don't think the act itself, under the circumstances described, would be disqualifying -- but lying about it now would be.
   1326. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:44 PM (#5745355)
To the media? Who? Ford? I didn't read that Ford told the media anything. I heard she told members of Congress and an attorney.

The WaPo story says Ford contacted their tip line. Is it really coincidental that Ms. Ford put herself in the position to inevitably be the reluctantly outted witness? And that the timing just happens to come right before the vote but too late for it to be pursued during the hearings?


Ford stayed silent for 2-2.5 months. And only came forward after she had all but been outed.

If you want to claim that she orchestrated her own outing... I don't see any actual evidence for such a conspiracy theory.
   1327. Chip Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:46 PM (#5745356)
And again, if she felt so strongly about her privacy then she should have kept it to herself.


Says someone who has never spoken to a victim of sexual assault.
   1328. Chip Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:48 PM (#5745357)
Clapper presenting as a pig here is the nadir of partisanship.
   1329. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:52 PM (#5745358)
I agree. However, what David said in #1254 applies

Oh, absolutely. I was speaking generally. Kavanaugh's denial makes the whole argument irrelevant to his case.
   1330. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:54 PM (#5745359)
I'm sorry, but I don't quite get the joke here. He's not selling them; his advertiser is. And they're not even marketing them as "doomsday prepper," but as emergency preparedness.

The joke is the grift that is the Republican Party and those that do its bidding. But the joke is on this country :(
   1331. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:54 PM (#5745360)
Yankee Clapper, #1321:
Is it really coincidental that Ms. Ford put herself in the position to inevitably be the reluctantly outted witness? And that the timing just happens to come right before the vote but too late for her story to be pursued during the hearings?


By tradition, sexual assault victims of SCOTUS nominees have chosen not to go public during a midterm election year.
   1332. Srul Itza At Home Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:56 PM (#5745362)
It doesn't get less retarded if you repeat it.


The use of that phrase does not get less offensive because of your impeccable libertarian credentials.
   1333. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: September 16, 2018 at 11:57 PM (#5745363)
Clapper presenting as a pig here is the nadir of partisanship.

Clapper's nadir is the same as his zenith. One long, flat line at the bottom of the ocean.
   1334. Srul Itza At Home Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:00 AM (#5745365)
What does that have to do with your retarded argument about the polygraph?


It doesn't become any less offensive because you repeat it or because your target is Andy or because Polygraphs are complete BS.
   1335. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:02 AM (#5745366)
Clapper presenting as a pig here is the nadir of partisanship.

Your sanctimonious posturing is a poor cover for your own partisanship causing you to immediately believe the worst about Kavanaugh, no matter how dated or flimsy the accusation, or how inconsistent the accusation is with what is known about Kavanaugh's entire life. Some folks here seem to strenuously object to even subjecting the accuser's charges to the normal investigative techniques used to try to discover the truth. Like Miserlou in #1315, you don't care about the truth.
   1336. Chip Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:06 AM (#5745367)
I remain fascinated by the widely-reported-in-conservative-media story that McConnell thought Kavanaugh was a bad choice and urged Trump to choose one of the dozen other Federalist Society-approved alternatives. And yet someone convinced the dementia-presenting President to ignore this advice. Who? Ivanka & Jared? Kelly? Rudy? Hannity? Bartiromo?

The boggles mind.
   1337. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:07 AM (#5745368)
Clapper presenting as a pig here is the nadir of partisanship.


Folks should be able to discuss this issue without calling people who disagree with them names.
   1338. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:10 AM (#5745369)
CNN:
Sens. Jeff Flake and Bob Corker both say the Senate Judiciary Committee should not vote on Kavanaugh's nomination until they talk to his accuser, and Sen. Lisa Murkowski said the committee might have to consider delaying the vote, according to reporting by CNN and other news organizations.
   1339. Chip Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:17 AM (#5745370)
Your sanctimonious posturing is a poor cover for your own partisanship causing you to immediately believe the worst about Kavanaugh, no matter how dated or flimsy the accusation, or how inconsistent the accusation is with what is known about Kavanaugh's entire life. Some folks here seem to strenuously object to even subjecting the accuser's charges to the normal investigative techniques used to try to discover the truth. Like Miserlou in #1315, you don't care about the truth.


I only believe the worst about Kavanaugh based on his shifty dissembling before the Senate and the now-obvious pre-hoc attempt by Trumpistas to inoculate him against a story that they had known about for months. The girls basketball team was not booked for the room, and the “instant” 65 endorsements were not collected by (take your pick) his:

a.) law clerks, or

b.) totally disinterested husband & wife conservative pals

unless they knew he had attempted to rape this woman in H.S.

The by-his-own-testimony blackout-drunk-while-in-HS friend being his sole character witness on the night in question doesn’t help either.
   1340. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:19 AM (#5745371)
A lot of online talk tonight about how Senators Collins and Murkowski both called upon Sen. Al Franken to resign less than a year ago due to his sexual harassment scandal, while also that nothing Franken was accused of approaches the level of abuse being reported about Brett Kavanaugh.
   1341. tshipman Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:20 AM (#5745372)
Folks should be able to discuss this issue without calling people who disagree with them names.


Folks should also be able to discuss this issue without trying to smear the alleged victim.
   1342. Chip Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:24 AM (#5745373)
Folks should be able to discuss this issue without calling people who disagree with them names.


But Clapper’s unsupported innuendo about the woman’s timing is totally acceptable.
   1343. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:27 AM (#5745374)
Shades of David's and Clapper's arguments are found in this piece by David French.

Aside from that I was interested in this comment by French:

Finally, there are no other allegations of sexual misconduct against Kavanaugh. If there’s one thing we’ve seen time and again, it’s that one allegation often triggers a cascade of additional claims. There seem to be precious few men who engage in serious sexual misconduct just once.


I think that's right... as far as "men" goes. However at the time of the allegations in question Kavanaugh was in high school and I do think high school boys might do something heinous -- once or multiple times -- but never as adults. So it wouldn't be surprising to me if Kavanaugh indeed did this at 17 but not for the rest of his life. Which is not to say he's surely guilty, just that this particular defense of him only goes so far for me.
   1344. tshipman Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:30 AM (#5745375)
I think that's right... as far as "men" goes. However at the time of the allegations in question Kavanaugh was in high school and I do think high school boys might do something heinous -- once or multiple times -- but never as adults. So it wouldn't be surprising to me if Kavanaugh indeed did this at 17 but not for the rest of his life. Which is not to say he's surely guilty, just that this particular defense of him only goes so far for me.


Well, let's remember that we don't know if there are more accusers out there. Often it takes one person to step forward.

That said, the next couple weeks are very key for this. If, truly, this is the only incident, that definitely impacts the way people will and should evaluate this. If there are more incidents, then the truth will out.
   1345. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:32 AM (#5745376)
Re: #1324, #1328, #1333, #1341, #1342, etc--

Come on, guys. Have a heart. What if you were looking forward all year long to a genuine Red Ryder 200-shot carbine action air rifle, and you were fantasizing about all the cool things you'd do after you got it, and you were counting off the days on the calendar? But then, super-suspiciously right before Christmas, the news broke that Santa Claus had pinned a girl down and molested her and tried to strip her clothes off? Which meant maybe you weren't gonna get that shiny Red Ryder 200-shot carbine action air rifle like you were supposed to? Well, who could blame you for saying a few words that should get your mouth washed out with a bar of soap?
   1346. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:39 AM (#5745377)
A lot of online talk tonight about how Senators Collins and Murkowski both called upon Sen. Al Franken to resign less than a year ago due to his sexual harassment scandal, while also that nothing Franken was accused of approaches the level of abuse being reported about Brett Kavanaugh.

With Franken, there were multiple victims and lots of corroborating evidence, both of which are lacking in Kavanaugh's situation.
   1347. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:42 AM (#5745378)
A lot of online talk tonight about how Senators Collins and Murkowski both called upon Sen. Al Franken to resign less than a year ago due to his sexual harassment scandal, while also that nothing Franken was accused of approaches the level of abuse being reported about Brett Kavanaugh.

I'd say these people have a point, if Collins' and Murkowski's demands were based on a single, uncorroborated incident, rather than a half dozen or so incidents, including one with photographic evidence. As is, not so much.

It's really not that difficult to find a million instances of Senator (insert name here) being partisan and disingenuous. Yet I find the argument being presented against Collins and Murkowski here to be thoroughly disingenuous itself.

edit: Lord help me, I agree with clapper.


   1348. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:46 AM (#5745379)
This is an interesting point in the most recent 30-year arc of the Supreme Court confirmations process that started with Bork and has basically brought us to the present day where it all simply boils down to which side has the votes.

We now have a test case for where the arc bends from here.

Will the Republicans proceed full steam ahead and not delay the vote on Kavanaugh and confirm him simply because they have the numbers? Or will a measure of integrity and decency prevail as they understand that it would be terrible for the country and for women as a whole if Kavanaugh gets confirmed under these conditions, with these sordid allegations hanging over his head.

I predict the Republicans will blink, delay the vote, and then ultimately -- unless something significant changes in Kavanaugh's favor -- not confirm him. I think social media with its groundswells on certain issues has a way of affecting what government does now. As we saw with, say, Trump reversing course on the children-border separation issue.
   1349. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:51 AM (#5745380)
Or will a measure of integrity and decency prevail

And people say Ray has no sense of humor.
   1350. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:52 AM (#5745381)
I can respect someone's SC standard being "near-perfection from birth". I don't think it has to be anything like that, though.

Attempting to rape or murder someone is a pretty fucking far bar from "near-perfection."
   1351. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:53 AM (#5745382)
With Franken, there were multiple victims and lots of corroborating evidence, both of which are lacking in Kavanaugh's situation.


We should be able to characterize the severity of various allegations on a spectrum without running afoul of what the #MeToo movement is trying to accomplish.

I don't think Franken had any allegation against him that was attempted rape.

And yet several members of his own party called for his resignation.

Republicans did too.
   1352. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:54 AM (#5745383)
Attempting to rape or murder someone is a pretty ####### far bar from "near-perfection."


Yes.

(Not that Ford accuses Kavanaugh of attempting to murder her. She said she feared he might inadvertently kill her. It's a reasonable fear of a woman who has an attacker on top of her attempting to rape her.)
   1353. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:54 AM (#5745384)
Attempting to rape or murder someone is a pretty ####### far bar from "near-perfection."

Thus the "anything like that" part of the second sentence you quoted.
   1354. Chip Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:55 AM (#5745385)
   1355. Chip Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:58 AM (#5745386)
Donald Trump, Jr., son of admitted sexual assaulter, has big joke on Instagram.
   1356. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 17, 2018 at 12:58 AM (#5745387)
A "he never assaulted me" letter from 65 Friends of Kavanaugh has been offered as counterevidence. As I recall, the identical expression of support from Franken's female colleagues on "Saturday Night Live" didn't move the needle an inch.
   1357. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 17, 2018 at 01:02 AM (#5745388)
(Not that Ford accuses Kavanaugh of attempting to murder her. She said she feared he might inadvertently kill her. It's a reasonable fear of a woman who has an attacker on her attempting to rape her.)

The post I was responding to was a reply to a tweet about a hypothetical teen-murderer, which is why I included it.
   1358. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 17, 2018 at 01:04 AM (#5745389)
Ok.
   1359. bobm Posted: September 17, 2018 at 01:07 AM (#5745390)
I predict the Republicans will blink, delay the vote, and then ultimately -- unless something significant changes in Kavanaugh's favor -- not confirm him.

What do you think the odds are that Kavanaugh simply withdraws before a vote either by the committee or the full Senate?
   1360. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 17, 2018 at 01:14 AM (#5745391)
I predict the Republicans will blink, delay the vote, and then ultimately -- unless something significant changes in Kavanaugh's favor -- not confirm him.

The vote doesn't necessarily have to be delayed in order to have Ms. Ford interviewed, under oath, by Judiciary Committee staff, and possibly by the Committee itself. There could also be a short delay for further investigation as part of a bipartisan agreement on bringing the nomination to a vote. However, AFAIK, Ms. Ford hasn't even agreed to testify under oath, and there's no indication that Democrats have any interest in abandoning the across the board delay-delay-delay tactics they have employed from the beginning. There is a notable OTP tendency to immediately overreact to news of any significance, but until Ms. Ford's accusations are subjected to some actual investigation and minimally competent cross-examination, people predicting the demise of Kavanaugh's nomination are out ahead of their skies. I don't want to drive some of the sensitive types to their fainting couches, so I won't go into detail, but there are some obvious gaps and inconsistencies in Ms. Ford's story that may not hold up that well.
   1361. Srul Itza At Home Posted: September 17, 2018 at 01:20 AM (#5745392)
How many people here think DMN's position would change, even if the accusation was credible, if the net result would be the loss of another hard-right conservative vote on the SC?

Yeah, me neither.
   1362. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 17, 2018 at 01:23 AM (#5745393)
Withdrawing is a tough one because normally one who is innocent shouldn't withdraw which would be widely portrayed by his critics as an admission of guilt. However the Supreme Court is different, and a nominee should understand when the issue has gotten bigger than he or she is.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kavanaugh ultimately withdraws, but I wouldn't be surprised if he stuck it out, either. But I think all of this is premature. Kavanaugh should be granted time for an investigation and further hearings to play out, before calls for him to withdraw are issued.
   1363. Srul Itza At Home Posted: September 17, 2018 at 01:27 AM (#5745394)
This is ####### disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.


That is clearly beyond his ability. Then again, you can't really be a True Trumpkin if you have, or even acknowledge, the capacity for shame.
   1364. Ray (CTL) Posted: September 17, 2018 at 01:27 AM (#5745395)
I don't want to drive some of the sensitive types to their fainting couches, so I won't go into detail, but there are some obvious gaps and inconsistencies in Ms. Ford's story that may not hold up that well.


You say "obvious gaps" but are they surprising gaps? It's been 35 years and if it happened it was a traumatic event. I don't see the gaps as telling; if anything I see them as indicators that she's telling the truth but again all of us are engaged in subjective analysis here.

As to inconsistencies I don't see the issue with the therapist's notes (4 people vs 2) as all that interesting.
   1365. Howie Menckel Posted: September 17, 2018 at 01:39 AM (#5745396)
I don't think Franken should have had to resign - although his own party put him in an impossible situation.

his worst photos depicted a clueless dude making inappropriate make-believe gestures, without at all considering the feelings of the woman.

that's terrible, and let's improve. if the next dopey male Senator acts like that, let's remove him quickly. the key is letting women know that this frat boy behavior by middle-aged men will not be tolerated.
   1366. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 17, 2018 at 02:22 AM (#5745397)
You say "obvious gaps" but are they surprising gaps? It's been 35 years and if it happened it was a traumatic event. I don't see the gaps as telling; if anything I see them as indicators that she's telling the truth but again all of us are engaged in subjective analysis here.

Well, the complete lack of any detail about the date or location of the incident is an obvious red flag. That's not "normal" testimony - "can't tell you when it happened, or where it happened, but trust me it happened". How often do you believe that type of testimony? The 2 yet to be identified individuals who the accuser claims were also present may be an issue. Do they even know Kavanaugh? Does their memory synch with the allegations? If all 4 people allegedly present deny the incident happened, how can Ms. Ford's claim stand? Ms. Ford's background as a psychologist may also present an issue. It's been reported that most psychology programs require graduate students to undergo therapy themselves as part of their training. If that's the case, doesn't that undermine her claim that she was significantly affected by the incident but told no one until 2012? Did she lie to her therapist in grad school? If she did, why is she believable now? Especially if there is no corroboration of her allegations? Those are legitimate areas of inquiry, and only the tip of the iceberg.
   1367. tshipman Posted: September 17, 2018 at 02:29 AM (#5745398)
It's been reported that most psychology programs require graduate students to undergo therapy themselves as part of their training. If that's the case, doesn't that undermine her claim that she was significantly affected by the incident but told no one until 2012?


No. Let me help clear that up for you.
   1368. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 17, 2018 at 02:37 AM (#5745399)
Sorry tshipman, that response doesn't work.
   1369. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: September 17, 2018 at 02:41 AM (#5745400)
Sorry tshipman, that response doesn't work.

Just like saying 'No' didn't work for Ford.
   1370. Barnaby Jones Posted: September 17, 2018 at 03:17 AM (#5745401)
Did she lie to her therapist in grad school?


What exactly do you think happens in therapy?
   1371. Greg K Posted: September 17, 2018 at 07:24 AM (#5745405)
Huh, I never ever looked at this week's intro article until today. Never thought I'd see the Saskatoon Star Phoenix posted here!
   1372. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 17, 2018 at 07:41 AM (#5745406)
Hate to say it, but so far Ray's exhibited a more balanced perspective on this whole Kavanaugh incident than just about anyone, which isn't that easy to do in a case with multiple possible truths and multiple possible perspectives.
   1373. -- Posted: September 17, 2018 at 07:42 AM (#5745407)
Obviously disqualifying if true, and there isn’t a whole lot of reason to think it isn’t. It has nothing in common with anything Franken did or was accused of. This is orders of magnitude beyond a clumsy workplace pass; indeed the conduct is sexually felonious.
   1374. perros Posted: September 17, 2018 at 08:00 AM (#5745409)

What exactly do you think happens in therapy?


T-h-e r-a-p-i-s-t.
   1375. manchestermets Posted: September 17, 2018 at 08:16 AM (#5745411)
So convertible stay garage-bound
Save after-sun for later
If rain makes Britain great
Then Manchester is greater
As you dry your clothes once again
Upon the radiator
What makes Britain great
Makes Manchester yet greater


Heaton and Rotheray knew what they were talking about. Here's the rainy city yesterday at lunchtime.
   1376. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 17, 2018 at 08:31 AM (#5745413)
I submitted a new thread. (Corrected)

EDIT: Don't thread on me.
   1377. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 17, 2018 at 08:40 AM (#5745414)

Kavanaugh accuser willing to testify, her lawyer says; White House’s Kellyanne Conway says, ‘She should be heard’
A lawyer for Christine Blasey Ford, the woman who said Judge Brett Kavanaugh assaulted her when the two were in high school, said Monday that Ford is willing to testify about the allegations before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

“She is. She’s willing to do whatever it takes to get her story forth,” lawyer Debra Katz said on NBC’s “Today” show when asked if her client would speak publicly about President Trump’s nominee to the Supreme Court. ...

“This woman should not be insulted and should not be ignored,” White House counselor Kellyanne Conway said during an interview on Fox News’s “Fox & Friends.” ...

Katz said that Ford is not taking a position on whether Kavanaugh should withdraw from consideration.

“She’s not taking a position on that,” Katz said. “She believes that these allegations obviously bear on his character and his fitness, and the denials of course bear on his character and fitness.”

“This is not a politically motivated action,” Katz added. “In fact, she was quite reluctant to come forward.” ...
   1378. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 17, 2018 at 08:41 AM (#5745415)
I submitted a new tread.

A new tread or a retread?
   1379. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 17, 2018 at 09:22 AM (#5745432)
The new thread is up and running.
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