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Wednesday, September 05, 2018

OTP 2018 September 4: Candidate for governor pitches politics at Jacksonville baseball game

The Democratic candidate for governor spent his Labor Day in Jacksonville and attended a Jumbo Shrimp game at the baseball grounds.

Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum called for his Republican opponent, Ron DeSantis, to have a more civil campaign, but New4Jax political analyst Rick Mullaney doesn’t think the political attacks will slow down.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:26 AM | 1496 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   101. Morty Causa Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5739069)
Your character and personality play a significant role in your decision-making, and this applies to judges and numbnuts here on this site. You can't shed who you are or escape where you are, geographically and otherwise, and still be a player in that context. The best you can do is play fair according to the rules. For a judge, that means countenancing, assimilating, and taking into account all serious input. That's all that can be expected of anyone doing anything. If that's no0t good enough, change the rules, the context, or the person involved.
   102. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:07 PM (#5739070)
If the Democratic Party were to distance itself from such groups I would note it, but it seems appropriate to note that it doesn't, even when those groups demand lockstep unanimity from all Democratic Senators (apparently without even clearing their demand with Bitter Mouse).


LOL

Yeah, see? Democrats don't try to distance themselves from folks who have a tactical difference with leadership and might say some mean things about said leaders. We are not fragile snowflakes who can't handle some criticism from within the ranks, unlike a certain leader of a certain other Nazi-curious and criminally challenged political party.

Of course some groups are trying to apply as much pressure as they can to Democratic leadership! That is their job and they know Chuck and any other leaders won't freak out. They are adults who can handle that sort of thing.
   103. DavidFoss Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5739071)
If Roe v. Wade is gutted or even overturned with Kavanaugh casting the deciding vote, then the sitting dems want to be able to say that they did everything they could to stop it. That's all the Schumer Letter is saying.

Again, Clapper is complaining for no reason because he knows he has the votes. He's just spinning as fast as he can to maintain maximum leverage for the next debate.
   104. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5739072)
Again, Clapper is complaining for no reason because he knows he has the votes. He's just spinning as fast as he can to maintain maximum leverage for the next debate.


The world is less for his continued existence.
   105. Count Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:08 PM (#5739073)
Re 92- the actual clip is here.
   106. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:10 PM (#5739075)
Tea Party types favor smaller government, lower taxes, and less government regulation


nothing to see here, move along please.
   107. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:19 PM (#5739082)
Clapper is really delivering a virtuoso performance in nonsensical hackery that nobody believes.

I can only guess he feels some need to pick up the slack for the other three absent Trumpkins.
   108. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:20 PM (#5739084)
In other words, he reacted emotionally, not rationally.

Gee, just what we need on the Supreme Court.

But a judge is a judge is a judge, as we're all assured here by certain people.


You don't understand. Some emotions are more equal than others.
   109. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5739085)
I can only guess he feels some need to pick up the slack for the other three absent Trumpkins.


Some of it surely is that this is his fetish. He clearly jacks off to photos of Antonin Scalia's rotting corpse.
   110. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:24 PM (#5739086)
Bitter Mouse really needs to talk to CREDO Mobile, Indivisible, Democracy for America, Daily Kos, MoveOn, Demand Justice and the other signers of the Schumer letter


By the way this is pretty funny. I would have thought Clapper would have at least read the article he linked to and quoted from, but maybe not.

Among the signees are CREDO Mobile, Indivisible, Democracy for America, and Daily Kos. MoveOn and Demand Justice, groups trying to defeat Kavanaugh, did not sign on.



Clapper's hackery would be more compelling if he were able to correctly differentiate between those groups that do differ on tactics from those that do not.

EDIT: And no I am not holding my breath for Clapper to correct his clear and obvious misstatement of the truth.
   111. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5739089)
I don't have a horse in this race, but I'm curious: YC, do the David Dukes and Tea Party types speak for you or set the course of the GOP?

David Duke and his supporters have no role in the GOP, and exist on the fringe of the political spectrum, although some folks, particularly here, try to score political points by attempting to tie such fringe types to the entire party.

When you've got a president who's loved by David Duke for all the reasons that David Duke loves, who needs David Duke?

As George Wallace might have put it, when it comes to immigration there's not a dime's worth of difference between David Duke and Donald Trump.** Whatever public differences there may be are purely for PR purposes.

** And even less difference between David Duke and John Kelly.

   112. Morty Causa Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5739091)

Yes, there are fewer slaves and people everywhere live better and longer. Beware, though, partially formed sensibilities will take umbrage if you point this out. You will be viewed as defending the status quo and being unwilling to change any aspect of that status quo. (As, among others, Steven Pinker has found.) Yes, there are fewer slaves, and none here or in other western democracies, but don't you think that makes you or us better. It doesn't. We're still odious. There's never been a better time to be in the underclass or part of the third world, thanks in great part to Western (yes, including US) largesse in providing food and medicine and educating the deprived in using these things as well as in generally improving their condition. But, don't you think you deserve any sort of credit, you white male oppressor bastard you.
   113. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:32 PM (#5739094)
Poor pathetic Sam, - no attempt at substance, just vainly wishing for the demise of a poster who expresses differing views. So sad.
   114. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5739096)
Clapper is really delivering a virtuoso performance in nonsensical hackery that nobody believes.


I'd rather have Joey B. back.

You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency?
   115. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:34 PM (#5739099)
Poor pathetic Sam, - no attempt at substance, just vainly wishing for the demise of a poster who expresses differing views. So sad.


Yes. Your continued wasting of oxygen that other animals could be using is, in fact, sad. You simpering, mewling quim. Your death will be a national parade.
   116. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5739100)

Re 92- the actual clip is here.
So, then, the "guy on twitter" -- a ridiculous thinkprogress hack -- completely fails to understand a fundamental principle of our government: the difference between policy preferences and constitutional law. He's asking about the MLR article that has been extensively discussed, in which Kavanaugh suggested that Congress should legislatively create protections for the president -- not that the Constitution should be reinterpreted to contain these protections.
   117. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5739101)
Somebody call the home. Morty is off his meds again.
   118. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5739102)
If it'll make Clapper feel any better, Sam just added me to his Death Row list over in Omnichatter.
   119. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5739103)

By the way this is pretty funny. I would have thought Clapper would have at least read the article he linked to and quoted from, but maybe not.

Among the signees are CREDO Mobile, Indivisible, Democracy for America, and Daily Kos. MoveOn and Demand Justice, groups trying to defeat Kavanaugh, did not sign on.




Clapper's hackery would be more compelling if he were able to correctly differentiate between those groups that do differ on tactics from those that do not.


OK - I must confess...

I know what Indivisible is (to the extent is anything besides just an umbrella name that gets applied like Tea Party). I know what Daily Kos is. I know what Move On is.

What is "CREDO mobile"?

I'm assuming it's this?

Is this why I'm not getting my regular pitchfork and torch instructions? I have the wrong cell provider?
   120. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:36 PM (#5739104)
He's asking about the MLR article that has been extensively discussed, in which Kavanaugh suggested that Congress should legislatively create protections for the president -- not that the Constitution should be reinterpreted to contain these protections.


And yet, the day he gets his Super Special Lifetime Robe, he'll magically find them there.
   121. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:38 PM (#5739107)
If it'll make Clapper feel any better, Sam just added me to his Death Row list over in Omnichatter

Congratulations! Others here seem more tolerant of the manure munching moron - no enemies to the left, eh?
   122. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:41 PM (#5739109)
Andy is just on the watch list. You're on the actively hoping to see it happen soon. You're a worthless cow and an embarrassment to whores who have a soul.
   123. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:43 PM (#5739114)
Congratulations! Others here seem more tolerant of the manure munching moron - no enemies to the left, eh?

Oh, I'm quite tolerant of Sam. You have to take his death threats seriously to get bothered by him. He's about as likely to kill anyone as JE is to resurrect his #NeverTrump status.
   124. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5739116)
Might be worth keeping an eye on? You know, maybe.

Trump's approval rating drop looks real, and it could be a disaster for the GOP in 2018

If Trump's approval rating drops into the 30s, the bottom may fall out for House Republicans. Since 1946, a point decline in a president's approval rating is worth about 0.25 to 0.33 point in the national House vote. That is, a drop in Trump's approval rating from 42% (CNN's latest poll) to 36% (the ABC News/Washington Post poll) could increase the Democratic advantage by 2 percentage points.

That may not seem like a lot, but a look at the House map suggests it could be a very big deal. If you were to shift that national environment 2 points toward the Democrats, it might result in Democrats picking up, on average, around 45 seats or more in the House.

To put that 45-seat gain in perspective, it would be the largest for the Democrats since Watergate.

This estimate, though, may not be friendly enough to Democrats. Historically, the relationship between how voters feel about the president and how they vote for Congress isn't as strong as it is today. Given what the last CNN poll showed (just a 2-point difference between voters' net approval rating of the President and the Democratic advantage on the generic ballot), a 36% approval rating could translate into a Democratic popular-vote win of well above 10 points. The latest ABC News/Washington Post poll showed a Democratic advantage of 14 points on the generic congressional ballot, for example. This would be good enough for a Democratic gain of 50 seats or more. Democrats last gained this many seats in an election in 1948.


Probably nothing though, there are no signs anywhere else that there might be a Blue Wave, are there?
   125. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:48 PM (#5739119)
You have to take his death threats seriously to get bothered by him


I've never threatened to kill anyone here. People who think this is a threat are idiots. If I threaten someone, they will know it viscerally.
   126. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:49 PM (#5739121)
Nevermind. That's 2 today. I'm off my game.
   127. zenbitz Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5739122)
What is "CREDO mobile"?

I'm assuming it's this?


This has to be an FBI or Russian front to control the communications of certain classes of folks.
   128. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5739123)
I wish someone had told me about this vastly powerful Democratic puppet master CREDO mobile before...

I just switched carriers - and signed a contract to get a discount on a new iphone - but their plans look like they're actually pretty competitive with the one I just signed onto... Looks like the same plan I have now would cost me an extra $5 a month - but apparently, it's a division of a progressive corporation that gives money to things like Planned Parenthood, Doctors without Borders, Amnesty International and Greenpeace.

Next time maybe...
   129. Count Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5739129)
116- I think you actually make a good point, he said his view changed on a narrower issue which led to his paper, but didn’t say it would affect his interpretation of the constitution. I withdraw that portion of my post- the rest of course still stands.
   130. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:01 PM (#5739130)
This afternoon, most Judiciary Committee Democrats aren't even sticking around for their colleagues questions (same for the GOP Senators to some extent). The lesson of the Supreme Court confirmation hearings over recent decades is that Senators reading from notecards are unlikely to trip up nominees who are well-versed in such matters and can discuss the cases & issues in depth without notes. Kavanaugh may not be quite as smooth as John Roberts was at his hearing, but Senate Democrats haven't laid a glove on him yet. I'm not sure whether anyone in the audience moved their thumb too close to their forefinger today, but I assume we will eventually get a report on such important matters.
   131. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5739133)
This afternoon, most Judiciary Committee Democrats aren't even sticking around for their colleagues questions (same for the GOP Senators to some extent). The lesson of the Supreme Court confirmation hearings over recent decades is that Senators reading from notecards are unlikely to trip up nominees who are well-versed in such matters and can discuss the cases & issues in depth without notes. Kavanaugh may not be quite as smooth as John Roberts was at his hearing, but Senate Democrats haven't laid a glove on him yet. I'm not sure whether anyone in the audience moved their thumb too close to their forefinger today, but I assume we will eventually get a report on such important matters.


If you have children or grandchildren, I hope you live to bury them.
   132. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:05 PM (#5739134)
Ho-lee shite!

This is going to drive Clapper's orange dumbass absolutely BONKERS!

The Times today is taking the rare step of publishing an anonymous Op-Ed essay. We have done so at the request of the author, a senior official in the Trump administration whose identity is known to us and whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure. We believe publishing this essay anonymously is the only way to deliver an important perspective to our readers.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.
* * *
From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.


“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier.

* * *

The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.


I mean - it's CYA bullshit on one level.... FFS - don't tell me you and your fellow non-whack jobs deserve to be feted as unsung heroes.

But still - this is extraordinary.

Any guesses on who it is?
   133. Howie Menckel Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:10 PM (#5739142)
Ted Cruz interviewing Kavanaugh just now. A protester starts yelling. Kavanaugh stops in mid-sentence. the moment the protester stops as they are escorted out, the judge calmly resumes his comments.

happened 3 more times (and counting) in the next 5 minutes.

I understand the sincerity of the protesters' beliefs (and no doubt agree with some of those), and of course I respect their right to protest.

Now, do I think it aids their cause? Not even a little bit.
   134. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5739148)
That op-ed is chickenshit IMO. More enablers. What a clown show the GOP is.

Any guesses on who it is?


Probably one of Kelly's aides.
   135. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:14 PM (#5739150)
The trump regime is so ####### crazy, Zonk didn't feel the need to include this chunk:

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.
   136. Traderdave Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5739151)

Any guesses on who it is?


Words and style remind me a bit of Cohn, but he's out of the administration. Next best guess is John Sullivan (Deputy SoS)

   137. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5739154)
Now, do I think it aids their cause? Not even a little bit.


I think that judgment depends on what you think their cause actually is....

To actually stop Kavanaugh's nomination from succeeding? No, I don't think it helps either... because nothing is likely to change what I imagine is going to be a ~55-45 vote regardless. I don't think it hurts either - mind you, but no... doesn't help either.

Now - over and above?

I would disagree. Strictly for purposes of "rallying the base", advocating for the issues - be it gun control or pro-choice rights or whatnot?

I think it undeniably does help... From the Iraq war to gay marriage to whatever else - to past flashpoints (slavery... Vietnam... etc) -- none of these changes in national course ever happened without people loudly, sans decorum, protesting.
   138. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:22 PM (#5739158)
I think that judgment depends on what you think their cause actually is....


Right. The point is not to prevent the nomination from going forward. We don't have the votes for that. The point is to #### all over the process, smear it all over Kavanaugh's face, and leave the official record of his promotion to the court rife with insult, if not injury.
   139. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:26 PM (#5739161)
The trump regime is so ####### crazy, Zonk didn't feel the need to include this chunk:

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.


Indeed.

You think it's a coincidence that this op-ed gets written right as Woodward's book, which lays out the "process" for managing Trump? Hide papers from him? Jiggle keys? Have him go play golf? comes out.

That op-ed is chickenshit IMO. More enablers. What a clown show the GOP is.


Yeah - too late to edit, but you're right.

I was just so gobsmacked that a supposedly "Senior Administration Official" writes an op-ed saying that the President s/he works for is a loony tunes nut job and they all know it. It's.... well, it really is unprecedented, isn't it? I mean - it's not unusual for cabinet members and even high-ranking officials to break with the boss, even publicly. Lincoln's team of rivals... FDR's first budget director, Lewis Douglas, breaking with him and then becoming a naysayer, etc.... etc.

But - this is different. This isn't a "I don't support this specific policy" or "I've developed irreconcilable disagreements on X with the President".

This "the President is a dangerously unfit, amoral idiot".

It's... unbelievable.
   140. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5739165)
   141. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5739166)
This "the President is a dangerously unfit, amoral idiot".

It's... unbelievable.
No it's not, I've been saying that for years now :)
   142. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:34 PM (#5739170)
No it's not, I've been saying that for years now :)


Well, sure.... but now someone in the administration is saying "yeah, you guys are right".
   143. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:35 PM (#5739171)
If they actually valued the Republic, they would have punted his ass via the 25th February 2016.
   144. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:37 PM (#5739172)
The POTUS is unmoored and lacks principles you say?

President Trump on Wednesday again threatened to shut down the government at the end of the month, days after indicating that he wanted to avoid such a move.

"If it happens it happens. If it's about border security, I'm willing to do anything," Trump told reporters at the White House on Wednesday.

Trump was heading into a meeting to discuss spending with congressional leaders, who were hoping to dissuade Trump from considering a shutdown ahead of November's midterm election.

While Trump had threatened to shut down the government if Congress failed to adequately fund his proposed border wall earlier in the year, in recent days he had seemed to back off the threat.

“I don’t like the idea of shutdowns,” Trump said in a Sunday interview with the Daily Caller published earlier Wednesday.

“I don’t see even myself or anybody else closing down the country right now,” he added.

Trump's comments came just hours after his budget director, Mick Mulvaney, trekked to Capitol Hill and personally assured lawmakers in the conservative Republican Study Committee that Trump did not want to shut down the government, according to sources in the room.


Hope Hicks had a really tough job picking out his ties, no doubt.
   145. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:38 PM (#5739174)
If they actually valued the Republic, they would have punted his ass via the 25th February 2016.


I assume you mean 2017.... unless you're referring to the GOP's lack of courage to say "No, enough of this joke... we'd rather lose with a not-a-moron than win with a moron"... but then, the 25th wouldn't apply.
   146. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:38 PM (#5739176)
If you have children or grandchildren, I hope you live to bury them.

What's appallingly grotesque about Sam's numerous posts expressing such sentiments is that there's a decent chance that someone who will read this thread has experienced such a tragedy, not that Sam would care about how his casual a-holery affects others. This is what Sam does, this is who Sam is. Enjoy the company you are keeping.
   147. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:40 PM (#5739177)
What's appallingly grotesque about Sam's numerous posts expressing such sentiments is that there's a decent chance that someone who will read this thread has experienced such a tragedy, not that Sam would care about how his casual a-holery affects others.


Are the Republicans? God. I hope they're Republicans. And that their kids were young.
   148. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:43 PM (#5739180)
Enjoy the company you are keeping


Coming from a Trumpkin.

Today must be Clapper Irony Day.
   149. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:44 PM (#5739181)
I assume you mean 2017.


Yes. But you are correct about the failure to clear this travesty in the primaries as well. God. The GOP must be destroyed. Salt the fields and drown their villages in blood.
   150. BDC Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5739183)
The GOP must be destroyed. Salt the fields and drown their villages in blood


Wait now, most of my neighbors are Republicans. The runoff is going to really mess up my girlfriend's garden.
   151. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:46 PM (#5739184)
The runoff is going to really mess up my girlfriend's garden.


Collateral damage. Kill your neighbors and take their fields and you won't have this problem.
   152. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5739187)
Someone is going to write an awesome retrospective on what led the GOP to Trump and I look forward to reading it. Obviously it started with the Southern Strategy but a timeline of important events and moments and "tipping points" leading up to Trump would be great to have in one thorough volume.
   153. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:51 PM (#5739189)
Wait now, most of my neighbors are Republicans. The runoff is going to really mess up my girlfriend's garden.


I have no idea about the rest of the block, since I'm hardly the socializing type, but the households on either immediate side of me are pretty liberal. The odds of this being the case in the middle of Montgomery, Alabama, are ... not small.
   154. BrianBrianson Posted: September 05, 2018 at 04:56 PM (#5739193)
You will be viewed as defending the status quo and being unwilling to change any aspect of that status quo.


You can't please everyone all of the time. I seek not to defend the present, but to vilify the past. Which is necessary for progress, as both progressives and reactions tend to mollycoddle it (though each with different, narrow exceptions).
   155. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5739195)
Enjoy the company you are keeping.


Does Clapper realize that we are all keeping the same company? We are all - yes including Clapper - sharing the same digital space.

Unless this is just a call for disavowals, and if so ... sure I disavow Obama's Drone Program and any and all violence, wishes for violence, or threats of violence from any poster, for now and into the future (but no I am not going to post this every time anyone posts something that triggers Clapper).
   156. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:04 PM (#5739196)
Could be Mattis.

It's the lead story on FoxNews.com right now, which seems incredible. Not even their editors could ignore this.
   157. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:06 PM (#5739198)
The betting money seems to be that the anonymous "adult" - who is too chickenshit to do more than take his turn jiggling keys for his unfit boss - is Don McGahn.
   158. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:14 PM (#5739200)
State of Art Wall, #152:
Someone is going to write an awesome retrospective on what led the GOP to Trump and I look forward to reading it. Obviously it started with the Southern Strategy but a timeline of important events and moments and "tipping points" leading up to Trump would be great to have in one thorough volume.


Rick Perlstein will get up to this point in his GOP histories, right around the time of Blue Ivy Carter's presidential inauguration.
   159. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5739202)
Piling on, par for the course:

At a meeting in September 2017 with senior officials discussing refugee admissions, a representative from the National Counterterrorism Center came ready to present a report that analyzed the possible risks presented by refugees entering the country.

But before he could discuss the report, Associate Attorney General Rachel Brand dismissed the report, saying her boss, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, would not be guided by its findings.

"We read that. The Attorney General doesn't agree with the conclusions of that report," she said, according to two officials familiar with the meeting, including one who was in the room at the time.

Brand's blunt veto of the intelligence assessment shocked career civil servants at the interagency meeting, which seemed to expose a bid to supplant facts and expertise with an ideological agenda. Her response also amounted to a rejection of her own department's view, as the FBI, part of the Justice Department, had contributed to the assessment.


All admins spin and direct research to be, lets just say "favorable" to their ideology, but what this admin does is another thing entirely. This is what Fascism looks like on the policy level, for anybody paying attention.
   160. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:18 PM (#5739203)
Why do these rude index card Democratic Senators and Bob Woodward and protesters and Parkland dads and anonymous Trump adminstration op-ed writers have to ruin everybody's Kavanaugh Khristmas?
   161. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:23 PM (#5739205)
Brand's blunt veto of the intelligence assessment shocked career civil servants at the interagency meeting, which seemed to expose a bid to supplant facts and expertise with an ideological agenda.


Yeah, who would have thought a political movement based on science-hating Creationists would do such a thing.
   162. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:29 PM (#5739207)
   163. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:30 PM (#5739208)
You have to take his death threats seriously to get bothered by him

I've never threatened to kill anyone here. People who think this is a threat are idiots. If I threaten someone, they will know it viscerally.


Okay, I guess neck stabbing doesn't count as a death threat. Works for me.
   164. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:37 PM (#5739210)
I almost felt sorry for him watching this, he's in over his head, and he's scared.


#### him.

Resign.

   165. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:39 PM (#5739212)
   166. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5739214)
#### him.

Resign.


At a certain point it seems like that is the most likely outcome, it's either that or jail for him and his family.
   167. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:43 PM (#5739215)
#### him.

Resign.


So you think Mike Pence wrote the op-ed?
   168. Howie Menckel Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:44 PM (#5739216)
I take it this word was used in the Op-Ed?

Matt Viser
‏Verified account @mviser
7m7 minutes ago

There is a certain high-ranking Trump official who likes using the phrase “lodestar.” His name is Mike Pence.

..........................

[note that if Trump comes to believe it's Pence, he might.. well, it could get interesting)
   169. RoyalFlush Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:47 PM (#5739217)
Okay, I guess neck stabbing doesn't count as a death threat. Works for me.


Remember when Hawkeye walked Father Mulcahey through that tracheotomy? That was a neck stabbing, too.
   170. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:48 PM (#5739218)
Someone is going to write an awesome retrospective on what led the GOP to Trump and I look forward to reading it. Obviously it started with the Southern Strategy but a timeline of important events and moments and "tipping points" leading up to Trump would be great to have in one thorough volume.

It started well before the Southern Strategy, more like with the unhinged reaction to FDR that began midway through his first administration and continuing through Joe McCarthy and points thereafter. What changed beginning with the Southern Strategy was that the Dixiecrats were added to their base.
   171. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:48 PM (#5739219)
#### Mike Pence, too. His only reason for being the VP is that the criminal Trump picked him. Pence couldn't get elected National Dog Catcher on his own. This won't make him a viable candidate in 2020. He is tied to Trump forever. #### him and his weirdness.
   172. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:48 PM (#5739221)

Matt Viser
‏Verified account @mviser
7m7 minutes ago

There is a certain high-ranking Trump official who likes using the phrase “lodestar.” His name is Mike Pence.

..........................

[note that if Trump comes to believe it's Pence, he might.. well, it could get interesting)


He did -

We may no longer have Senator McCain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.


I suppose that once s/he gets past the cowardly "we're the adults", the writer does say -

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.


However, I just don't think I see Pence in this... not enough God, Jesus, and Bible.
   173. BrianBrianson Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:49 PM (#5739222)
He has to suspect that his current position is the most favorable to not ending up in jail, right? Like, taking the position was probably a mistake, because it exposed him to unneeded scrutiny, but now that he's being scrutinized, being president is probably the best place to be to avoid prosecution and jail.
   174. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:53 PM (#5739225)
Doesn't seem to be much interest here in the Senate Judiciary Committee's Kavanaugh hearing today, apart from myself - which probably says something about how it's going - but those with interest in long-term matters may want to keep an eye on Senator Ben Sasse (R-NE). He's looked pretty good thus far, especially for a non-lawyer (he does have a Ph. D in American History). Smart, telegenic, and articulate will get you a long way in politics, and although he's only in his 1st Senate term, I suspect that we're going to see him mentioned as a national ticket possibility the next time there is a non-incumbent race on the GOP side.
   175. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:53 PM (#5739226)
   176. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:55 PM (#5739227)
#### him.

Resign.

At a certain point it seems like that is the most likely outcome, it's either that or jail for him and his family.

My admittedly selfish take on Trump's eventual fate is that I'm glad Ray (#440) is an honorable man.
   177. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:58 PM (#5739229)
Doesn't seem to be much interest here in the Senate Judiciary Committee's Kavanaugh hearing today,


Most of the others here share my opinions of you, right down to the celebratory drink when you finally keel the #### over. They just don't want to say it out loud.
   178. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 05:58 PM (#5739230)
Senator Ben Sasse (R-NE)


Right, Trumpkin.

He can run with Jeff Flake, right?

Your cult is your cult and your cult leader is your cult leader and your cult rules are your cult rules.
   179. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:01 PM (#5739232)
There is a certain high-ranking Trump official who likes using the phrase “lodestar.” His name is Mike Pence.
I saw several people making that observaguess, but, I mean, it’s not like Pence (or any other politician) writes his own speeches, right?
   180. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:02 PM (#5739233)
It was strange to see YC highlighting Sasse, as much as any push-back exists in the Senate against Trumpism, Sasse is the vanguard.
   181. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:07 PM (#5739234)
Indiana Governor Defends Halting ‘Common Core,’ Kentucky Governor Talks Charter Schools

And as we go through the process of evaluating Common Core in light of existing Indiana standards that’s really our lodestar and I really believe that’s in the best interest of our kids,” says Pence.

Address by Mike Pence, Vice President, United States of America, Delivered at the Kantei, Tokyo on February 7, 2018


As President Trump has said, “Past experience has taught us that complacency and concessions only invite aggression and provocation.” And so vigilance and resolve will be our lodestar.


Keeping the Peace: Vice President Pence Addresses the UN Security Council
So let us rededicate ourselves to the mission upon which this body was founded -- the first words of the U.N. Charter, “to maintain international peace,” must again be our lodestar, our ideal, and our aspiration.


Remarks by Vice President Mike Pence at the Kemp Leadership Award Dinner (WhiteHouse.gov)

Jack’s lodestar was his unwavering belief in the fundamental equality and dignity of every person
   182. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:07 PM (#5739235)
Tommy John for Ohtani, that sucks.
   183. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:07 PM (#5739236)
It was strange to see YC highlighting Sasse, as much as any push-back exists in the Senate against Trumpism, Sasse is the vanguard.


No, it's not.

Not all rats wait until the ship looks doomed to sink before they start eying up which ropes would best allow them to scurry off it. Some start inching their way towards them when the leaks look serious but perhaps manageable.
   184. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:14 PM (#5739238)
Mike Pence pledges “proper separation” between Donald Trump and business empire

“As you know we made changes as soon as I took over the transition efforts,” Pence told CBS’ “Face the Nation.”. “We made changes -- we moved lobbyists out of the transition team and that’s going to continue to be a lodestar and I can tell your viewers that the president-elect is determined to move ethics reform in the next year in the Congress of the United States.”

It’s not just scripted speeches, it’s in off-the-cuff interviews too. Going back YEARS, prior to his VP run.
   185. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:15 PM (#5739239)
I almost felt sorry for him watching this, he's in over his head, and he's scared.
Boo f'n Hoo.

I agree that he will genuinely be gobsmacked if he doesn't serve until 2025 - he actually believes he's all that. But feel sorry for him? Never.
   186. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:16 PM (#5739240)
The only one better than Pence would be Ivanka.
   187. Greg K Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:17 PM (#5739241)
It started well before the Southern Strategy, more like with the unhinged reaction to FDR that began midway through his first administration and continuing through Joe McCarthy and points thereafter. What changed beginning with the Southern Strategy was that the Dixiecrats were added to their base.

It started with the American rebellion.
   188. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:19 PM (#5739242)

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
2m2 minutes ago

TREASON?


Ha, yes... By all means, execute him, Donnie boy...

Here's a theory - maybe this Op-Ed is a crime... Assassination by way of causing Dear Leader to drop dead of a stroke or heart attack?

Hmmmm.... not sure I could serve on that jury.
   189. Greg K Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:19 PM (#5739243)
It’s not just scripted speeches, it’s in off-the-cuff interviews too. Going back YEARS, prior to his VP run.

I suppose if anyone is an expert in identifying anonymous authorship through writing style and word usage it would be us in this thread.
   190. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:20 PM (#5739244)
Boo f'n Hoo.

I agree that he will genuinely be gobsmacked if he doesn't serve until 2025 - he actually believes he's all that. But feel sorry for him? Never.


Eh, it was an "almost". He made his bed he can lie in it. He just looked like a confused old dottard in that clip, which he is, but he's POTUS.
   191. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:24 PM (#5739246)
From one of JE's favs:

Mollie

Verified account

@MZHemingway
2h2 hours ago
More
It’s time for Republican leaders on the Hill to stop encouraging a resistance against the people and the man they elected as president. This is the real scandal in a sea of media hysteria.


Sure, that's the scandal.
   192. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:28 PM (#5739247)
All TDS aside, can someone explain to me why there's a MAGA rally in *Billings* tomorrow?

I can - barely - understand having a campaign rally (two years early) in a swing state. I mean, it's a waste of time and money, but that's the swamp he's doing such a good job of draining. But MONTANA? Are those three EVs at risk? Or is that the only safe place he can think of after today?
   193. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:31 PM (#5739248)
It’s for whoever it is that’s gonna lose to Tester...
   194. Howie Menckel Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:31 PM (#5739249)
thanks for the responses on the perceived value of protesters - apparently 50+ interruptions - with the idea that history will look kindly on this battle.

maybe, but I lower my opinion of every Senator who votes against a clearly-qualified Supreme Court nominee. That was their role for many years - affirm if clearly-qualified - and it was a good one. we have already been headed in the wrong direction on that for a number of years, and of course last year's Merrick Garland debacle further lowered the esteem any of us should have for that body.

but 45-49 Democrats voting in unison against Kavanaugh, without even a fig leaf of "not qualified" suggested - I'd like to think that decades from now, that too would produce rolled eyes and scorn.
   195. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:37 PM (#5739250)
It’s the Trump era Howie.

Unless Leahy unzips his fly and pisses on Kavanaugh’s head, nothing will make the Scorn Top 100
   196. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:40 PM (#5739251)
Unless Leahy unzips his fly and pisses on Kavanaugh’s head


I'd pay to see that.
   197. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:43 PM (#5739254)
All TDS aside, can someone explain to me why there's a MAGA rally in *Billings* tomorrow?

I can - barely - understand having a campaign rally (two years early) in a swing state. I mean, it's a waste of time and money, but that's the swamp he's doing such a good job of draining. But MONTANA? Are those three EVs at risk? Or is that the only safe place he can think of after today?
You're forgetting about the only thing that’s going to keep Trump from being impeached next year: the Senate.
   198. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:43 PM (#5739255)
Trump's response to the op-ed starts with (paraphrasing) "when I'm out of office, in six and a half years or so, the NYT and CNN and all the rest of the fake media will go out of business - there'll be nothing left to write about".

As far as Trump is concerned, History will End. Pretty sure that there used to be an ideal about serving a cause bigger than yourself.
   199. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:45 PM (#5739256)
You're forgetting about the only thing that’s going to keep Trump from being impeached next year: the Senate.
Oh yeah, forgot about Tester. Sure, that actually makes sense. Never mind.
   200. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 05, 2018 at 06:48 PM (#5739258)
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