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Wednesday, September 05, 2018

OTP 2018 September 4: Candidate for governor pitches politics at Jacksonville baseball game

The Democratic candidate for governor spent his Labor Day in Jacksonville and attended a Jumbo Shrimp game at the baseball grounds.

Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum called for his Republican opponent, Ron DeSantis, to have a more civil campaign, but New4Jax political analyst Rick Mullaney doesn’t think the political attacks will slow down.

 

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 05, 2018 at 08:26 AM | 1496 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off topic, politics

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   1201. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: September 09, 2018 at 07:33 PM (#5741372)
flop
   1202. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 09, 2018 at 07:34 PM (#5741373)
The Denver Post - Kavanaugh's Inevitable Confirmation:
But ultimately, we agree with Sen. Lindsey Graham’s approach to the nomination process as he expressed on NBC’s Meet the Press: “I would tell my Democratic friends what I told my Republican friends: When Obama won, he made two picks, Sotomayor and Kagan. I voted for both because I thought they were qualified. I voted for Alito and Roberts and I would imagine I’ll vote for this pick.”

Kavanaugh is eminently qualified. He is well educated, strikingly intelligent and by all accounts a good man devoted to his family and his community. There’s no reason for our senators, Cory Gardner and Michael Bennet, not to support him.

Team Blue seems rather confident - perhaps too confident - that it will win the next presidential election, but it is creating a confirmation process that will be a nightmare for its own appointees, if that electoral outcome ever comes to pass.
   1203. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 09, 2018 at 07:50 PM (#5741374)
And nobody has a better feel for the political future than Yankee Clapper.

Clapper on Wednesday, #174:
Those with interest in long-term matters may want to keep an eye on Senator Ben Sasse (R-NE). ....Smart, telegenic, and articulate will get you a long way in politics, and although he's only in his 1st Senate term, I suspect that we're going to see him mentioned as a national ticket possibility the next time there is a non-incumbent race on the GOP side.
Three days later on Twitter:
stephanie pickens:
I switched my party from Democrat to no-party this week as I see that to be part of the solution. Have you considered following suit?

Ben Sasse:
yep — regularly consider it
(except the “from Dem” part)
   1204. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 09, 2018 at 08:00 PM (#5741375)
The short answer is that every system has its vulnerabilities. I actually think proportional representation isn't a bad system in the best of times (and so long as Canada's politics remain stable I don't think it's necessarily a problem here). But it is somewhat troubling that the public discussion of PR in Canada often seems to assume that it is a relatively untried system, when in fact it's contributed to some real political instability in the past.

No system is perfect, but first past the post does seem to have passed the test of time where it has been relied on. When the UK held a referendum on alternative voting in 2011, FPTP won by 2-to-1 after an extensive year-long debate. The BC referendum will be another data point on where folks stand on the subject.
   1205. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 09, 2018 at 08:03 PM (#5741376)
Wasnt Sasse the libertarian psychopath who introduced the one-sentence bill to abolish the Department of Education, or am I confusing my tea partiers?
   1206. tshipman Posted: September 09, 2018 at 08:10 PM (#5741377)
No system is perfect, but first past the post does seem to have passed the test of time where it has been relied on.


I mean, so had the carrier pigeon, the horse and buggy and the trustee system.
   1207. OCF Posted: September 09, 2018 at 08:12 PM (#5741378)
Davo has been trying to stoke up the fires between the relatively-more-socialist and relatively-less-socialist tendencies within the Democratic party. (Neither faction is either purely socialist or purely not socialist.) If the U.S. were suddenly and implausibly to convert to a proportional representation system, then it would be easy to imagine the Democrats and the Democratic Socialists as two separate parties. And the Blue Dogs as yet another party. But once it comes down to governing, the Democrats and the Democratic Socialists would be natural allies and would under most circumstances be part of the same coalition. (The coalition loyalties of the Blue Dogs would be less certain.) And under anything like the current situation, the Democrats and the Democratic Socialists would need to emphasize their alliance. The other side might have a teeny-tiny Charlie Baker/Susan Collins party, a Business Republican Party, and the New Know-Nothing Party. And the energy lies ...
   1208. bobm Posted: September 09, 2018 at 08:27 PM (#5741381)
No system is perfect, but first past the post does seem to have passed the test of time where it has been relied on.

This discussion seems to confound voting methods with the basic difference between these two sets of countries, the UK/US group and the democracies created post WWI. That difference is whether or not one has a long history of democracy, without which the choice of voting method means little IMO. (It is the one optimistic aspect of our current situation as Americans.)
   1209. OCF Posted: September 09, 2018 at 08:34 PM (#5741383)
This discussion seems to confound voting methods with the basic difference between these two sets of countries, the UK/US group and the democracies created post WWI.

That was part of my thought process in writing 1193, although I didn't find a way to express it.
   1210. tshipman Posted: September 09, 2018 at 09:16 PM (#5741388)
(Neither faction is either purely socialist or purely not socialist.)


This is kind of a pointless distinction because no major party really advocates for pure privatization of everything.

I think even David supports public armies, road work, and fire prevention.
   1211. bobm Posted: September 09, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5741391)
[1209] That was part of my thought process in writing 1193, although I didn't find a way to express it.

I was particularly struck by this that you wrote:

In Weimar Germany, the Nazis were a pariah party but the Communists were also a pariah party; if they both got enough of the vote, they could squeeze the ability of the other parties to operate.

They were aligned against the system in some sense; the communist slogan was "After Hitler, our turn." (Clearly that was meant more in the Weimar sense than in the DDR sense.)
   1212. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 09, 2018 at 09:27 PM (#5741392)
1108 David Niepront: To be clear, this is about the second day's hand motion -- not the original one, when she wasn't making a sign at all, but simply resting her hand on her arm.

On Friday a Dallas police officer shot and killed a black guy. She just went into his house at the end of her shift, and shot him dead. She claims she thought it was her house, and that he was a robber.

Anyway, here are some pictures of that officer with her friends and family. That's her Mom wearing the "All Lives Matter" shirt. But of interest to David is the picture in the bottom right corner, where in a crazy coincidence she's friends with a guy who also likes to "simply rest his hand on his arm."

It's uncanny!
   1213. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 09, 2018 at 09:32 PM (#5741395)
   1214. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 09, 2018 at 09:36 PM (#5741398)
Anyway, here are some pictures of that officer with her friends and family.


“The only Justice we get it Street Justice.. smoke that pig if given the opportunity.”

3 hours later and the account is still active, I don’t know what you need to do to get banned from twitter but I’d have to think this would be included.

EDIT: His bio says he is “A fighter against white fuckery”. Nice.
   1215. tshipman Posted: September 09, 2018 at 09:39 PM (#5741400)
haha, must be a strange coincidence, nothing to see here.

A mysterious academic who allegedly acted as a link between Donald Trump's presidential campaign and the Kremlin is "missing and may be dead", according to court papers.

Joseph Mifsud, 57, became embroiled in scandal after he was said to have offered "dirt" about the Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton to a Republican aide at a London hotel.

The Maltese professor, based at the University of Stirling in Scotland until last year, has previously denied suggestions that he was a Russian agent saying: "Secret agent! I never got a penny from the Russians. My conscience is clean."

But last week he was named in papers lodged with a New York court by the Democratic National Committee – the Democratic Party's governing body – which is suing Russia, the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks for allegedly interfering in the 2016 election, according to the Daily Mail.

The documents said all the defendants in the case have been served with the complaint, "with the exception of Mifsud (who is missing and may be deceased)".

   1216. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 09, 2018 at 09:46 PM (#5741405)
Add another name to the Clinton Body Count. Now she’s killing people to make you think other people are killing them.

Follow the Cheeto crumbs.

#Q&Juan;
   1217. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 09, 2018 at 09:52 PM (#5741408)
Fat lazy idiot with elaborate combover does stupid thing.

Donald Trump nearly started a conflict with North Korea in early 2018, when he proposed a tweet that "scared the daylights" out of his defence secretary James Mattis, a new book claims. “This is all about leader versus leader,” said Mr Trump, according to Fear, an upcoming book by legendary Watergate journalist Bob Woodward seen by the Telegraph. “Man versus man. Me versus Kim.” Woodward reveals that Mr Trump wanted to send a tweet ordering US military dependents – thousands of family members of 28,500 troops - to leave South Korea.


“Man versus man”, now that’s funny. Two Pump Trump is the biggest ##### in presidential history.

Imagine if you supported this idiot, how ####### stupid you’ve got to feel right now. Unless, I guess, it’s one of those Dunning-Kruger things where you don’t feel stupid because you don’t recognize stupidity as being stupid in the first place. Jeez, that’d be even worse.
   1218. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 09, 2018 at 10:32 PM (#5741415)
Clapper's kind of people, Florida version:

GOP candidate for Fla. governor spoke at racially charged events
Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.), a gubernatorial nominee who recently was accused of using racially tinged language, spoke four times at conferences organized by a conservative activist who has said that African Americans owe their freedom to white people and that the country’s “only serious race war” is against whites.

DeSantis, elected to represent north-central Florida in 2012, appeared at the David Horowitz Freedom Center conferences in Palm Beach, Fla., and Charleston, S.C., in 2013, 2015, 2016 and 2017, said Michael Finch, president of the organization. At the group’s annual Restoration Weekend conferences, hundreds of people gather to hear right-wing provocateurs such as Stephen K. Bannon, Milo Yiannopoulos and Sebastian Gorka sound off on multiculturalism, radical Islam, free speech on college campuses and other issues.

“I just want to say what an honor it’s been to be here to speak,” DeSantis said in a 27-minute speech at the 2015 event in Charleston, a video shows. “David has done such great work and I’ve been an admirer. I’ve been to these conferences in the past but I’ve been a big admirer of an organization that shoots straight, tells the American people the truth and is standing up for the right thing.” ...

The Freedom Center covered DeSantis’s expenses for the 2017 conference at a luxury resort in Palm Beach, according to disclosure forms he filed as a member of Congress.

Fellow speakers included a former Google engineer who was fired after arguing that “biological causes” in part explain why there are relatively few women working in tech and leadership; a critic of multiculturalism who has written that “Europe is committing suicide” by welcoming large numbers of refugees and immigrants; and a British media personality who urged the audience to keep the United States from becoming like the United Kingdom, where “discrimination against whites is institutionalized and systemic.” ...

Cue JE to show up and demand that we deal with the "substance" of those critiques.....

   1219. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 09, 2018 at 10:47 PM (#5741431)
Cue JE to show up and demand that we deal with the "substance" of those critiques.....

Until he does, I can't help but noticing that the excerpt doesn't have a word about what DeSantis (or anyone else) may have said at that event, but is entirely an attempt at guilt by association. Funny how "selective" you (and the WaPo) are about that approach.
   1220. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: September 09, 2018 at 11:22 PM (#5741441)
To the surprise of no one, Clapper will now endlessly tout Booker's silliness as proof that anyone who criticizes Trump is wrong.

(Ray) What a nonsequiturial yet predictably defensive reaction to the final beclowning of Booker.
How is this defensive? I called out Booker as silly.
(YC) Oops, sorry, must have missed this one, causing me to neglect my "obligations" here. Did I mention that Booker spent a considerable amount of time criticizing a dissenting opinion by Kavanugh that the Supreme Court later adopted in a 9-0 vote? Another case that upset Booker was a 7-2 vote for Kavanaugh's position. That may only mean Booker was wrong, but it's the best I could do on short notice.
Blah Blah Blah Booker. My point is, as it has been many times in the past, that dumb things Democrats do (which are legion) are constantly used as some kind of misdirection away from, or exculpation for, dumb things Trump does.

Try to understand this: If Democrats do stuff as dumb as Trump, I'll call them dumb. Booker was an idiot the other day. Nothing is as non sequitur as whatabouting a Trump gaffe with "but HRC/Booker/Pelosi yadda yadda", but I guess that's the only excuse left for being in his camp.

The op-ed had Trump whining like a little baby in front of those law enforcement types. It was an embarrassing performance - petulant, defensive, childish, paranoid, immature. Sure, the op-ed guy should come forward - but a POTUS worthy of the office should deal with it better.

If the only defense you have of Trump's next foolishness is "yeah, but Booker!", you really need to educate yourself in how things like logic actually work.
   1221. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 09, 2018 at 11:29 PM (#5741444)
Prisons to take Florida inmates’ MP3 players

In April last year, the Florida Department of Corrections struck a deal with JPay. The private company, spearheading a push to sell profit-driven multimedia tablets to incarcerated people across the country, would be allowed to bring the technology to every facility in the nation’s third-largest prison system. But there was a catch.

Inmates had already been purchasing electronic entertainment for the last seven years — an MP3 player program run by a different company: Access Corrections. For around $100, Access sold various models of MP3 players that inmates could then use to download songs for $1.70 each, and keep them in their dorms.

The demand was clear. More than 30,299 players were sold, and 6.7 million songs were downloaded over the life of the Access contract, according to the Department of Corrections. That’s about $11.3 million worth of music.

Because of the tablets, inmates will have to return the players, and they can’t transfer the music they already purchased onto their new devices.

(...)Katherine Freeman, who is housed at Homestead Correctional Institution, filed a grievance saying she purchased more than $2,200 of music since January 2014. She complained last year that she was not informed until October that the music she owns would not transfer to the new tablets.

Freeman said in her grievance that the transfers were not being allowed in an attempt "to increase profits to JPay at the expense of hardworking taxpayers (the inmate families)."

Timothy Hoey, the assistant warden, did not deny the financial incentives at play in his response to Freeman, saying that it was "not feasible to download content from one vendor’s device to another, not only due to incompatibility reasons, but the download of content purchased from one vendor to another vendor’s device would negate the new vendor’s ability to be compensated for their services."
   1222. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 09, 2018 at 11:33 PM (#5741446)
Blah Blah Blah Booker. My point is, as it has been many times in the past, that dumb things Democrats do (which are legion) are constantly used as some kind of misdirection away from, or exculpation for, dumb things Trump does.

The better point is that whatever "dumb things" some think Trump may have done, appointing Kavanaugh is not among them by any possible measure. Kavanaugh could have, and should have, been appointed by any GOP President. The constant misdirection of "But Trump" tries to avoid the merits of the nomination,
   1223. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 09, 2018 at 11:39 PM (#5741448)
Cue JE to show up and demand that we deal with the "substance" of those critiques.....

Until he does, I can't help but noticing that the excerpt doesn't have a word about what DeSantis (or anyone else) may have said at that event, but is entirely an attempt at guilt by association. Funny how "selective" you (and the WaPo) are about that approach.


Did you miss the part where your boy said “I just want to say what an honor it’s been to be here to speak”? Or maybe you think it'd be fine for a candidate to attend four (4) Nazi rallies, as long as he doesn't actually praise Hitler?

As for what "anyone else may have said"....
At the group’s annual Restoration Weekend conferences, hundreds of people gather to hear right-wing provocateurs such as Stephen K. Bannon, Milo Yiannopoulos and Sebastian Gorka sound off on multiculturalism, radical Islam, free speech on college campuses and other issues.

Ever heard of these three guys? What it the hell do you think they were saying?

But I forget: Like David, you're a lawyer who seems to think that racism should be judged by the standards of a criminal trial, and any other standard is unfair.
   1224. zenbitz Posted: September 09, 2018 at 11:48 PM (#5741454)
What are other first past the post governments?
   1225. OCF Posted: September 09, 2018 at 11:55 PM (#5741455)
Wikipedia has a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting

More that I would have guessed.
   1226. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:00 AM (#5741456)
@Ocasio2018
How did the NYS Democratic Party manage to spend $11k on a mailer, falsely accusing a Dem candidate of anti-Semitism, w/o party leadership knowing?

Why isn’t it issuing corrective action before Thursday’s primary?

& why is the party taking sides in a primary to begin with?

Full story here.
   1227. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:07 AM (#5741457)
re: #1223,

After being called out for his #1218 being nothing more than an attempt at guilt by association, Andy attempts to rebut the criticism by adding bold to his guilt by association claims in #1223. Can italics (and "scare quotes") be far away? BTW, shouldn't this approach apply to folks on both sides of the spectrum? I seem to recall many here thinking there was no problem with hanging out with Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Al Sharpton & Louis Farrakhan, to mention but a few of the obvious suspects.
   1228. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:22 AM (#5741458)
Blah Blah Blah Booker. My point is, as it has been many times in the past, that dumb things Democrats do (which are legion) are constantly used as some kind of misdirection away from, or exculpation for, dumb things Trump does.

The better point is that whatever "dumb things" some think Trump may have done, appointing Kavanaugh is not among them by any possible measure. Kavanaugh could have, and should have, been appointed by any GOP President. The constant misdirection of "But Trump" tries to avoid the merits of the nomination,
I know you weren't talking to me, here, because I've called Kavanaugh perfectly cromulent on a number of occasions.

Calling Trump a whiny baby over his response to the op-ed has nothing to do with Kavanaugh, or Booker, or even the op-ed author. It's just Trump being a whiny baby. But you're seemingly unwilling to refer to Trump in that way, for any reason, so if I say "Trump acted like a whiny baby" your response is "but he sure did a good job picking Kavanaugh" or "look how people are beclowning themselves over Booker".

Neither has anything to do with Trump, or his whiny babyness, but you will continue to invoke them every time Trump is a whiny baby/holsters Putin/enables racism/demeans women/etc., etc. as if it were actually responsive.
   1229. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:42 AM (#5741461)
It's just Trump being a whiny baby. But you're seemingly unwilling to refer to Trump in that way, for any reason, so if I say "Trump acted like a whiny baby" your response is "but he sure did a good job picking Kavanaugh" or "look how people are beclowning themselves over Booker".

That's not accurate. I discussed the merits of Kavanaugh's nomination in posts about his nomination, not in discussions of other issues.
   1230. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:50 AM (#5741462)
One thread, four comments:

Yankee Clapper, #1219:
I can't help but noticing that the excerpt doesn't have a word about what DeSantis (or anyone else) may have said at that event, but is entirely an attempt at guilt by association. Funny how "selective" you (and the WaPo) are about that approach.


Yankee Clapper, #1227:
After being called out for his #1218 being nothing more than an attempt at guilt by association, Andy attempts to rebut the criticism by adding bold to his guilt by association claims


Yankee Clapper, #98:
David Duke and his supporters have no role in the GOP, and exist on the fringe of the political spectrum, although some folks, particularly here, try to score political points by attempting to tie such fringe types to the entire party. However, conflating Duke and the Tea Party is an unwarranted slur, employing just that tactic.

.....

Yankee Clapper, #230:
More bad news for the James T. Hodgkinson faction - Guilty Plea For Death Threats Made To Family Of FCC Chairman:
A California man has pleaded guilty to threatening to kill the family of Federal Communications Commission Chairman Ajit Pai for his role in repealing net neutrality rules.

   1231. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 01:26 AM (#5741464)
Apparently Gonfalon is quite the fan and wants to make sure everyone took note of the merits of those posts. Not sure how carefully he read them, but appreciate the compliment.
   1232. Lassus Posted: September 10, 2018 at 04:23 AM (#5741469)
Clapper:
The better point is that whatever "dumb things" some think Trump may have done


Clapper wouldn't know dumb if it kicked him in his worthless amoral brain.


Ford Kills Plan to Sell Chinese-Made Cars in the U.S., and Trump Thinks It Means They're Going to Start Manufacturing Them Here Instead
In another stunning display of a fundamental misunderstanding of how the automotive industry works, President Donald Trump posted a tweet earlier on Sunday morning lauding a CNBC report that stated Ford’s intent to nix a plan to sell the Chinese-made Focus Active in the U.S.

@realDonaldTrump

“Ford has abruptly killed a plan to sell a Chinese-made small vehicle in the U.S. because of the prospect of higher U.S. Tariffs.” CNBC. This is just the beginning. This car can now be BUILT IN THE U.S.A. and Ford will pay no tariffs! 9:49 AM - Sep 9, 2018
No, sir. No, that is not how this works. No, Ford is just… not going to sell these vehicles in the U.S. at all... See, Ford isn’t getting rid of its plans to manufacture cars in China. It is still going to do that! It is just not going to sell those cars in the United States. Instead, Ford is just going to find markets elsewhere.

Ford has taken plenty of blows as a result of this trade war. Sales have fallen in both China and the U.S. We’ve already lost the Ford Focus crossover in the States entirely. This is a situation where no one is really winning.

A Ford representative has contacted us to state the following:

"It would not be profitable to build the Focus Active in the US given an expected annual sales volume of fewer than 50,000 units and its competitive segment."

OK, Mr. Substance, what other not dumb things has Trump not done?
   1233. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 10, 2018 at 07:03 AM (#5741470)
Clapper wouldn't know dumb if it kicked him in his worthless amoral brain


Nah, he could teach a course on dumb. You’d just have to tell him he’d be lecturing on another topic and then let nature take its course.
   1234. Greg K Posted: September 10, 2018 at 07:20 AM (#5741471)
Wikipedia has a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting

More that I would have guessed.

It's essentially a legacy of the UK system. Which, considering how many nations were formerly UK colonies, is a bunch.
   1235. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 10, 2018 at 08:03 AM (#5741473)
To all of you idolaters and infidels: happy new year.


Zei G'zundt.
   1236. manchestermets Posted: September 10, 2018 at 08:17 AM (#5741474)
When was the most recent time an active member of Congress got arrested for, like, participating in a protest?


Seems to be Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal in June. Although this probably doesn't help you on the way to finding your preferred Democratic presidential candidate, as she's a naturalised citizen, not natural born.
   1237. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 10, 2018 at 08:45 AM (#5741478)
re: #1223,

After being called out for his #1218 being nothing more than an attempt at guilt by association, Andy attempts to rebut the criticism by adding bold to his guilt by association claims in #1223. Can italics (and "scare quotes") be far away? BTW, shouldn't this approach apply to folks on both sides of the spectrum? I seem to recall many here thinking there was no problem with hanging out with Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Al Sharpton & Louis Farrakhan, to mention but a few of the obvious suspects.


Clapper, you are the new King of Sophistry.

Obama hung out at a neighborhood political organizing meeting with Bill Ayers where the topic had nothing to do with anything Bill Ayers had done 20 years earlier, when Obama was in elementary school. There's no evidence Obama even knew what Ayers had done. The topic wasn't Let Talk About Blowing Up The Pentagon.

Jeremiah Wright was a minister. Obama attended his church services. He didn't speak. And he certainly never endorsed Wright's anti-white rants, if indeed he'd even been present for them.

Obama never hung around Al Sharpton at the time Sharpton was in his racist phase.

And Obama never attended a Nation of Islam meeting.

By contrast, DeSantis attended---and said it was an "honor" to attend---at least four separate meetings where the express purpose of the meeting was to promote white nationalism.

You should leave your pitiful lawyerish attempts at defending the indefensible to David, who at least sometimes has the wit to know when to leave well enough alone.
   1238. PreservedFish Posted: September 10, 2018 at 08:58 AM (#5741481)
I used to think that my father was a total shill for the Republicans, but I was pleasantly surprised when we had our first political conversation in at least a couple years. He despises Trump more than most liberals do. Although he likes Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, he boldy stated "I wouldn't take 100 Kavanaughs for one Trump." For background: Scalia is probably his single favorite modern political figure. He said that he couldn't be more disgusted with the Republicans, about how few have had the guts to stand up and declare the obvious: that Trump is a moron and grossly unfit to be President.

Concerning the "resistance" op-ed: he is the rare conservative observer that just flat-out LOVED the piece, and took it totally at face value, exuberant to learn that there are Republicans with spine somewhere in the government. He cut it out of the newspaper for preservation.
   1239. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:00 AM (#5741482)
And nobody has a better feel for the political future than Yankee Clapper.

Clapper on Wednesday, #174:

Those with interest in long-term matters may want to keep an eye on Senator Ben Sasse (R-NE). ....Smart, telegenic, and articulate will get you a long way in politics, and although he's only in his 1st Senate term, I suspect that we're going to see him mentioned as a national ticket possibility the next time there is a non-incumbent race on the GOP side.


Three days later on Twitter:

stephanie pickens:
I switched my party from Democrat to no-party this week as I see that to be part of the solution. Have you considered following suit?

Ben Sasse:
yep — regularly consider it
(except the “from Dem” part)


I, for one, applaud Clapper's newfound skepticism of the GOP.

Sasse tells CNN that "regularly" means every morning.

So, Clapper, do you think about abandoning ship every morning?
   1240. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:01 AM (#5741483)
"C.I.A. Drone Mission, Curtailed by Obama, Is Expanded in Africa Under Trump"

The headline from the NY Times. I am not going to bother to link as the headline says it all. I am sure everyone who demanded we disavow Obama and his drone program will jump right up and demand the same of the local Trumpkins. Not that I plan on holding my breath mind you ....
   1241. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:03 AM (#5741484)
Cory Booker was pleased at his "I am Spartacus" moment, like it or not. Compare and contrast that to the Trump administration's "Nope, I'm not Spartacus" moment. LOL!!
   1242. Omineca Greg Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:05 AM (#5741485)
The BC referendum will be another data point on where folks stand on the subject.

Yep, I get to vote in November, just like the big boys always do!

You know me, I'm down with FPTP.

I see it much as Dr. K wrote about in his article. If your ideas are so freaky and unpalatable that you can only get a thin spread around the province, and you can't even get people who you share some ideas with to sign on to them...then I'm pretty happy with you being in the political wilderness.

Look, we've got Green Party MLAs here, there are ridings (Hippieville, South Hippie Island, The Hippie Archipelago) where the hippies congregate, and now they have representation in the legislature.

The issue for BC is, that in this province at least, the right has done a much better job at presenting a united party to the voters, and the left has not. The last time the eventual governing party received over 50% of the vote was in 2001...It's a problem for the left, and the far left especially; when elected, the NDP governs from the centre, because they want to get re-elected, and this has allowed the Green Party to build up a fair level of support. In fact we have a coalition government now, NDP-Green.

At the same time, the right-wing freaks really have had no voice here. I say "Too bad, freaks!".
   1243. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:07 AM (#5741486)
Wikipedia has a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting

More that I would have guessed.


I think the thing I would like to change in voting is the ranked preference voting. Allow voters to rank choices. Lowest get eliminated until one gets 50%. Allow people to vote for smaller parties but then still have chance for vote to count.
   1244. Greg K Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:09 AM (#5741487)
I think the thing I would like to change in voting is the ranked preference voting. Allow voters to rank choices. Lowest get eliminated until one gets 50%. Allow people to vote for smaller parties but then still have chance for vote to count.

I think ranked ballot seems well suited to dealing with US politics. Maybe it can act as a break on the polarized bases controlling nominations?

I admit that is a feeling based on very little research or knowledge.
   1245. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:20 AM (#5741488)
I think ranked ballot seems well suited to dealing with US politics. Maybe it can act as a break on the polarized bases controlling nominations?


Heh - well, I'd point out that the Democratic base (or rather, those who fancy themselves the core of it ideologically) would say that the problem is that they don't control nominations.

I'm trying to think of the last time the equivalent of a Donald Trump - or even a Christine O'Donnell or Richard Mourdock or Roy Moore or what won a state-wide primary.

I mean, Ocasio-Cortez probably should be the nominee for her district... ditto Pressley...

But statewide, much less nationally? The nominee tends to be pretty center-left conventional.

Don't make me go all Howie on you, Greg!
   1246. Greg K Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:27 AM (#5741490)
Fair enough, I'll defer to those with better knowledge on the ground.

I have a soft spot for ranked ballot because it seems like it could be a check on strict party discipline, which is one of my pet peeves in Canadian politics.
   1247. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:43 AM (#5741491)
1236- Thank you. I remember hearing about those protests in the Capitol but didn’t know a congresswoman took it that far. Good for her.
   1248. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5741492)
Fair enough, I'll defer to those with better knowledge on the ground.

I have a soft spot for ranked ballot because it seems like it could be a check on strict party discipline, which is one of my pet peeves in Canadian politics.


I wonder, though - how much of that is a matter of having more than two viable parties? I.e., you've essentially got three - plus the Quebec bloc in a single province, no? That would seem to raise the ante on party discipline.

FWIW, in the US - I do think there's a difference between parties and party discipline. Since Anderson in '80 - I cannot think of a situation where the GOP has ever really faced (much less accommodated or acquiesced) non-straight party lines.

Meanwhile, as Will Rogers said...

This was one of my beefs with the "Oh, the primary was so unfair to Sanders!" - Sanders joined the party just a few months before running, then left following the GE. That's on top of the fact that the Democrats never ran anyone against him when he was in the House or the Senate.... Then - you've got someone like Angus King, who is probably more center than center-left, and again - the Dems don't run anyone against him.... Or you could even take Joe Lieberman - yeah, he got primaried and lost... and then, got his same committee assignments back and didn't even suffer any party penalties when he actively campaigned against the D nominee for President (or, at least for the R nominee).
   1249. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: September 10, 2018 at 09:56 AM (#5741493)
Quoted in 1186:
In his speech Friday, Barack Obama offered a succinct explanation for the rise of Donald Trump.
Trump, he said, is a “symptom, not the cause,” of our political moment. .....“He’s just capitalizing on resentments that politicians have been fanning for years, a fear and anger that’s rooted in our past but it’s also born out of the enormous upheavals that have taken place.”
The right reacted to this with outrage, but also with an alternative explanation, one even simpler than Obama’s. Conservative pundit Ben Shapiro put it most succinctly:
Ben Shapiro ✔ @benshapiro
Obama lecturing us is LITERALLY how you got Trump.


Shapiro's stupid Twitter comment got a lot of Twitter response:
Grant Norvell:
Ahhhh yes. The party of personal responsibility lost control of its primary because Obama (the former college professor) gave lectures. Bold. Fresh.

Mark Harris:
Trump ranted incoherently for an hour last night but when a black man makes a lucid and coherent speech he's "lecturing us." Go away, you racist imbecile.

Dennis Perkins:
If you turned into a bigot because a smart, decent black man sought to make this country better, you were always a bigot. PS: You were always a bigot.

J.K.Callaway:
People thinking they're too good to listen to a black man is how we got Trump.

Matthew Hipps:
It makes white conservatives such as yourself happier to pretend like the black guy messed it all up, not that Trump was a mirror of and conduit for racial resentment.

John Pavlovitz
You literally don't understand how to use the world 'literally.'

Jason Thomas:
If Trump is the best you could come up with, you could use a few more lectures.

Jeremy:
Even now, as Republicans control everything, you achieve nothing and keep moaning about Democrats. Presidency, House majority, Senate majority, and 33 governorships. But the poor Republicans can't anything done because Obama is giving speeches, or something.

Mrs. Betty Bowers
America got Trump because he says selfish, ignorant, and/or racist things that other selfish, ignorant, and/or racist Americans want to hear. Not because Obama, and the rest of us, noticed.
   1250. DavidFoss Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:03 AM (#5741497)
FWIW, in the US - I do think there's a difference between parties and party discipline. Since Anderson in '80 - I cannot think of a situation where the GOP has ever really faced (much less accommodated or acquiesced) non-straight party lines.

How do you classify Ross Perot? Rereading his platform, it sounds a lot like the populist wing of the Republican Party.

I've read that a combination of winner-take-all and first-past-the-post practically guarantees a two party system. Googling, I'm reading they call that Duverger's Law. Third parties get a few seats every once in a while, but they usually fizzle out before getting much momentum. On the other hand it is pretty easy for the 2nd party to reinvent itself as the opposition party checking the majority and then developing a platform from there.
   1251. Greg K Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:08 AM (#5741500)
I wonder, though - how much of that is a matter of having more than two viable parties? I.e., you've essentially got three - plus the Quebec bloc in a single province, no? That would seem to raise the ante on party discipline.

I'm sure the handful of posters here who are more clued into recent Canadian history can give a clearer picture, but Canada seems tight on party discipline than other commonwealth systems (like the UK or Australia). Trudeau's government promised more free votes, and it seems like there have been more in the past couple years. But Canadian parties are still very, very powerful.
   1252. Greg K Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5741502)
I've read that a combination of winner-take-all and first-past-the-post practically guarantees a two party system. Googling, I'm reading they call that Duverger's Law. Third parties get a few seats every once in a while, but they usually fizzle out before getting much momentum. On the other hand it is pretty easy for the 2nd party to reinvent itself as the opposition party checking the majority and then developing a platform from there.

William Riker (presumably while on shore leave) qualified that to bring in regional parties (the Bloc in Canada, SNP, Plaid Cymru, or the Irish parties in the UK). You also have the Lib-Dems in the UK, or the NDP in Canada as parties that had hung around for generations.

None of which invalidates Duverger's Law (which I believe was always describing a tendency rather than an inevitability).

First Past the Post does seem to give a massive edge to established, mainstream parties, and regional parties, while hurting new, niche, or fringe parties. Whether that's a feature or a bug depends on context I think.

On the other hand it is pretty easy for the 2nd party to reinvent itself as the opposition party checking the majority and then developing a platform from there.

A side note on this re-quote - I think this is the problem grand coalitions like Germany's pose. Ideally, the SPD should be reinventing itself as the opposition to Merkel's SDU, and presenting voters with a viable alternative. But if the two mainstream parties have to work together to form a government then you're permanently alienating a large chunk of the public. All those minor parties can't really form an effective or meaningful opposition.
   1253. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:16 AM (#5741503)
@benshapiro

Affirmative action for conservatives is how we end up with Shapiro as a respected thinker.
   1254. Omineca Greg Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:20 AM (#5741505)
I'm sure the handful of posters here who are more clued into recent Canadian history can give a clearer picture, but Canada seems tight on party discipline than other commonwealth systems (like the UK or Australia). Trudeau's government promised more free votes, and it seems like there have been more in the past couple years. But Canadian parties are still very, very powerful.

I'm listening to Paul McCartney right now, and just as I read your post, Paul piped up with...

Too many people going underground,
Too many reaching for a piece of cake.
Too many people pulled and pushed around,
Too many waiting for that lucky break.

That was your first mistake,
You took your lucky break and broke it in two.
Now what can be done for you?
You broke it in two.

Too many people sharing party lines...


Ah Paul, and people say you're a lightweight.
   1255. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:34 AM (#5741515)
Obama never hung around Al Sharpton at the time Sharpton was in his racist phase.

This may in fact be the dumbest thing that Jolly's ever wrote and that's an impressive accomplishment given the depth of his devotion to raving, senile, stupidity.

If Jolly doesn't like someone, just being in the same town as a racist at any point makes them Bull Connor.
If Jolly likes someone, they have special non-racist phases which covers every single moment they're not doing anything actively racist.
   1256. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5741516)
Obama hung out at a neighborhood political organizing meeting with Bill Ayers where the topic had nothing to do with anything Bill Ayers had done 20 years earlier, when Obama was in elementary school. There's no evidence Obama even knew what Ayers had done.

I said you were quite selective in applying your guilt by association criteria, but you may have exceeded expectations. Your attempt to pass off Obama's contacts with Bill Ayers as one-time event isnt close to the truth.
Obama never hung around Al Sharpton at the time Sharpton was in his racist phase.

When did Sharpton's racist phase end? What prior behavior did he renounce or apologize for? Are you sure you don't mean Sharpton has become so prominent in the Democratic Party that it now embarrasses you to note his racism? Isn't he still a tax scofflaw?
And Obama never attended a Nation of Islam meeting.

No one said he did, but how is that the criteria? A similar GOP grip & grin is OK with you? Seems unlikely based on what you've posted here.

Even the WaPo admits that there wasn't a racial aspect to DeSantis' remarks at the event mentioned in your article - of course, that didn't stop them, or you, from trying to suggest there was. In any event, I doubt this extremely selective form of guilt by association will have much political impact.
   1257. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:38 AM (#5741518)
When did Sharpton's racist phase end? What prior behavior did he renounce or apologize for? Are you sure you don't mean Sharpton has become so prominent in the Democratic Party that it now embarrasses you to note his racism? Isn't he still a tax scofflaw?

Jolly's senile definition of racism is when someone does something he doesn't like. So as long as Sharpton does things Jolly likes, he's not racist!

Though in fairness, Jolly's perhaps once-fertile brain has been ravaged by age and decades of lazy thinking.
   1258. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5741525)
Obama hung out at a neighborhood political organizing meeting with Bill Ayers where the topic had nothing to do with anything Bill Ayers had done 20 years earlier, when Obama was in elementary school. There's no evidence Obama even knew what Ayers had done.

I said you were quite selective in applying your guilt by association criteria, but you may have exceeded expectations. Your attempt to pass off Obama's contacts with Bill Ayers as one-time event isnt close to the truth.


From that link you provided:
During the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign, controversy broke out [1] regarding Barack Obama's relationship with Bill Ayers, a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, and a former leader of the Weather Underground, a radical left organization in the 1970s.[2] Investigations by CNN, The New York Times and other news organizations concluded that Obama did not have a close relationship with Ayers.[3][4][5] ...

An August 2008 USA Today article reported "The last time Obama saw Ayers was about a year ago when he crossed paths with him while biking in the neighborhood," says Ben LaBolt, a campaign spokesman. "The suggestion that Ayers was a political adviser to Obama or someone who shaped his political views is patently false."[34] An October 2008 New York Times article reported that Obama did not have a significant relationship with Ayers.[5] In a November 2008 Washington Post interview, Ayers said that he knew Obama only slightly: "I think my relationship with Obama was probably like that of thousands of others in Chicago and, like millions and millions of others, I wished I knew him better."[35] ...

In late May 2008, Michael Kinsley, a longtime critic of Ayers,[72] argued in Time that Obama's relationship with Ayers should not be a campaign issue:

If Obama's relationship with Ayers, however tangential, exposes Obama as a radical himself, or at least as a man with terrible judgment, he shares that radicalism or terrible judgment with a comically respectable list of Chicagoans and others—including Republicans and conservatives—who have embraced Ayers and Dohrn as good company, good citizens, even experts on children's issues ... Ayers and Dohrn are despicable, and yet making an issue of Obama's relationship with them is absurd.[73]
   1259. Ishmael Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5741528)
I've linked it before when we were talking about electoral reform and alternative voting systems, but everyone should have a play with Nicky Case's explainer: To Build a Better Ballot.

I think that before you start to get into the weeds on the 'how?' of voting systems, you sort of have to start with the 'why?' There's an assumption that voting systems should be doing various things - like promoting stability, excluding extreme positions, reflecting preference strength, or being maximally representative. But sometimes those ideas come into conflict, and I think when we're proposing alternative systems, it's helpful to state which goals we think should be primary, secondary etc.

Then we can run a quick Condorcet analysis to determine which goal is most popular, and proceed accordingly.
   1260. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:53 AM (#5741529)
It's hard not to be amused by the Trumpkins and their fellow travelers whining about Democrats allegedly "not getting over 2016" -- when it's pretty painfully obvious that they're now in Year 10 of not yet being over 2008...
   1261. McCoy Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5741531)
Hell, try 1992!
   1262. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:56 AM (#5741532)
Hell, try 1992!


True...
   1263. Chicago Joe Posted: September 10, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5741533)
So I guess we discovered that DJS’s trigger is Ben Shapiro. That makes some sense, similar in style, I suppose.
   1264. Hot Wheeling American, MS-13 Enthusiast Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5741537)
@swin24:
Jesus, Trump really did tweet a lot about the late Mac Miller, didn’t he

The leader of the Republican Party, folks.
   1265. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5741540)
From that link you provided:

You seem to have omitted the 3 years of Annenberg Challenge Board Meetings, Ayers hosting a campaign event for Obama's initial State Senate campaign, and their subsequent "educational reform" collaboration. As I said, you're certainly quite selective about such matters.
   1266. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5741541)
I wish Obama was as cool as you conservatives believe he was. We’d have thrown all cops in The Hague and our streets would have run red with the blood of the bankers. Instead he just gave them a zillion dollar bailout and put them in his cabinet.
   1267. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5741543)
1235

To all of you idolaters and infidels: happy new year.


Zei G'zundt.



Did somebody sneeze?
   1268. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5741544)
Obama never hung around Al Sharpton at the time Sharpton was in his racist phase.

When did Sharpton's racist phase end? What prior behavior did he renounce or apologize for? Are you sure you don't mean Sharpton has become so prominent in the Democratic Party that it now embarrasses you to note his racism?


I've denounced Sharpton racist actions regarding the Brawley hoax and the Korean merchants boycott many times, but those incidents took place decades ago, and there's nothing racist in his record since then. At the very worst, you could say that he passes the Strom Thurmond "I was once a racist but now I'm not" test with flying colors.

Isn't he still a tax scofflaw?

Snopes calls that claim a "mixture". But if you want to make associating with tax dodgers a topic of discussion, I'll be glad to introduce a Republican or two to the field.

No one said he did, but how is that the criteria? A similar GOP grip & grin is OK with you? Seems unlikely based on what you've posted here.

Maybe you can explain the point of that link, Mr. I'm Not Sayin' I'm Just Sayin'. Is it your point that Obama is some sort of a crypto black nationalist?

Even the WaPo admits that there wasn't a racial aspect to DeSantis' remarks at the event mentioned in your article - of course, that didn't stop them, or you, from trying to suggest there was. In any event, I doubt this extremely selective form of guilt by association will have much political impact.

Clapper, DeSantis spoke at four (4) white nationalist conferences, where "hundreds of people gather to hear right-wing provocateurs such as Stephen K. Bannon, Milo Yiannopoulos and Sebastian Gorka sound off on multiculturalism, radical Islam, free speech on college campuses and other issues."

Why would a non-racist attend even one meeting like that? Why would any non-racist want to be repeatedly seen with the likes of the other speakers at those conferences. This wasn't a case of DeSantis being at some forum that was open to all points of view. These were conferences promoted to advance explicitly racist themes.

But forget it. This is like talking to a wall. You've embraced racist candidates with unbridled enthusiasm simply because they wear the right laundry, and then pretend that they're not racists. Up is down. Black is white. Etc., etc., etc.


   1269. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:16 AM (#5741546)
From that link you provided:


You seem to have omitted the 3 years of Annenberg Challenge Board Meetings, Ayers hosting a campaign event for Obama's initial State Senate campaign, and their subsequent "educational reform" collaboration. As I said, you're certainly quite selective about such matters.


Claps, I'll be glad to copy and paste the entire goddam article if the copyright nanny will give me permission. There's nothing whatever in it to sustain any implication that Obama's association with Bill Ayers led to any influence on Obama's political views, any more that our election bet dinner meant that you or I influenced each other's views in any way.

Now if you can show that Obama attended four (or even one) Weatherman meeting with Ayers, as DeSantis attended four white nationalist conferences with the likes of Steve Bannon, Milo Yiannopoulos and Sebastian Gorka, I'll reconsider my opinion. Maybe you should start searching on ConservativeWiki.
   1270. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5741549)
I'm listening to Paul McCartney right now, and just as I read your post, Paul piped up with...

Too many people going underground,
Too many reaching for a piece of cake.
Too many people pulled and pushed around,
Too many waiting for that lucky break.

That was your first mistake,
You took your lucky break and broke it in two.
Now what can be done for you?
You broke it in two.

Too many people sharing party lines...


I love Ram. :)
   1271. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5741550)
So I guess we discovered that DJS’s trigger is Ben Shapiro. That makes some sense, similar in style, I suppose.

Nah, my main trigger is a few people here who spent a decade trying to derail threads with their personal politics, combined with my regret about not simply banning Jolly, Retardo, Backlasher, and Kevin in 2004-2006 or so.
   1272. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:32 AM (#5741555)
1256

Isn't he still a tax scofflaw?


So's the President.
   1273. Davo and his Moose Tacos Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:33 AM (#5741556)
Australian cartoonist with an interesting comic about Serena Williams-gate

Liberals are claiming it’s racist but we OTPers know that accusing someone of racism is in fact the only real racism.
   1274. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5741557)
Why would a non-racist attend even one meeting like that? Why would any non-racist want to be repeatedly seen with the likes of the other speakers at those conferences. This wasn't a case of DeSantis being at some forum that was open to all points of view. These were conferences promoted to advance explicitly racist themes.


Hey if that was it for clues as to his racial leanings I would be more than willing to dismiss it. Guilt by association shouldn't be a thing. Sadly, however, this is not even the second or third puzzle piece and while I still would not convict anyone based on the sum weight of the evidence, at the lower bar of ... "hey, this is troubling, I don't think I want to vote for or support this guy when there is a reasonable alternative" ... well, yeah.
   1275. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5741558)
By the way I submitted a new weekly thread.
   1276. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5741559)
1268

Clapper, DeSantis spoke at four (4) white nationalist conferences, where "hundreds of people gather to hear right-wing provocateurs such as Stephen K. Bannon, Milo Yiannopoulos and Sebastian Gorka sound off on multiculturalism, radical Islam, free speech on college campuses and other issues."


And while neither Andy, nor the posted article says anything about the substance of DeSanits's remarks, I don't get the impression that he was exactly booed off the stage by this audience, either.

EDIT:

You've embraced racist candidates with unbridled enthusiasm simply because they wear the right laundry,


Literally!
   1277. Count Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5741560)
Denying that he's racist is the closest we'll get to an acknowledgment that racism is bad. (DeSantis also had an ad where he talked to his toddler about building a wall; not a great guy!)
   1278. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:41 AM (#5741561)
1270

I love Ram. :)


Yeah? Well my dog has 3 legs...
   1279. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 11:42 AM (#5741563)
Hey if that was it for clues as to his racial leanings I would be more than willing to dismiss it. Guilt by association shouldn't be a thing. Sadly, however, this is not even the second or third puzzle piece and while I still would not convict anyone based on the sum weight of the evidence, at the lower bar of ... "hey, this is troubling, I don't think I want to vote for or support this guy when there is a reasonable alternative" ... well, yeah.


You can swim with ducks...

You can quack like a duck...

You can have feathers like a duck...

It's when you've got them all knocked that I start to think you might be a duck.
   1280. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5741580)
It's when you've got them all knocked that I start to think you might be a duck.


My point is the standard of proof for "Should I vote for this politician" is a bit lower than "Court of law". Now, obviously Democrats have a lower standard of proof for not liking a Republican than Republicans do (and vice versa).
   1281. DavidFoss Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:17 PM (#5741582)
Speaking of DeSantis. He just resigned his House seat so that he can focus on running for governor.
   1282. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5741588)
We’d have thrown all cops in The Hague and our streets would have run red with the blood of the bankers. Instead he just gave them a zillion dollar bailout and put them in his cabinet.


He and 73 other Senators, as the bailout bill was passed and signed during Bush's presidency.
   1283. zenbitz Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5741589)
Let's be clear here:
Al Sharpton: Bad person, bigoted fringe rabble rouser
DeSantis: Actual GOP congresscritter running for Governor.
   1284. zenbitz Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:34 PM (#5741592)
Andy may be a bit of a mush minded goofball, but let's not forget he'd be 100 times as good a president as the current one.
   1285. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:44 PM (#5741594)
Liberals are claiming it’s racist but we OTPers know that accusing someone of racism is in fact the only real racism.


The Serena depiction is borderline then you see that he draw Sharapova instead of Osaka and you kinda go "huh", at least I did. Not a good look.

Speaking of DeSantis. He just resigned his House seat so that he can focus on running for governor.


The Hill article I read wasn't very helpful on this: is it a contested seat or not? Is it NOW a contested seat? Will there be a special election primary? Who is the Dem candidate?
   1286. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5741595)
Andy may be a bit of a mush minded goofball, but let's not forget he'd be 100 times as good a president as the current one.

I dunno if I'd take that as a compliment, since most non-Republican mathematicians would say that 100 x -1,000,000,000 = - 100,000,000,000.
   1287. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:52 PM (#5741598)
Let's be clear here:
Al Sharpton: Bad person, bigoted fringe rabble rouser
DeSantis: Actual GOP congresscritter running for Governor.


Amusing a huge number of anti-Liberal arguments given her now are of the following type:

(1) Remember when we criticized some Democrat (usually Obama, but occasionally others)?
(2) Well you are criticizing Trump in some similar fashion.
(3) So yes, we are admitting we are being hypocrites - since we cared before, don't care now, and we think the situation is analogous - but darn it now you liberals are being hypocritical.

However, of course, they sort of try to elide the "we are hypocrites" part of the formulation, though it is there pretty much every time.
   1288. DavidFoss Posted: September 10, 2018 at 12:53 PM (#5741600)
100 x -1,000,000,000 = - 100,000,000,000

That looks like algebra instead of multiplication.

x = -9.9e8

Gotta use parentheses! :-)
   1289. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 10, 2018 at 01:00 PM (#5741605)
100 x -1,000,000,000 = - 100,000,000,000

That looks like algebra instead of multiplication.


All I know is that the only multiplying way to get any Trump to come out positive would be to have him do his multiplying with Ilse Koch.
   1290. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 10, 2018 at 01:12 PM (#5741608)
Ilse Koch.

Was that during Koch's non-Nazi phase?
   1291. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 10, 2018 at 01:13 PM (#5741609)
Andy may be a bit of a mush minded goofball, but let's not forget he'd be 100 times as good a president as the current one.

He's just as poor a communicator, as poor a reader, and has the same authoritarian instincts - look at how he gobbles Tom Friedman's balls every time the latter praises how China gets things done. Like Trump, I doubt Jolly has ever understood something he read that disagreed with one of his opinions. This site is in its 18th year and I still can't think of a time offhand that Jolly actually responded at length to something he disagreed with that showed any indication he had the basic understanding of his opponent's position. And frequently, not even a basic understanding of his opinion. He's E.J. Dionne with a traumatic brain injury.

I think Jolly would do more damage to the country as Trump. The only difference is that it wouldn't be Twitter-based as I'm not sure the former is technically able to operate the former.

Jolly would be a better president than Rickey, who has some seriously disturbing violent leanings, more than Trump has. Rickey is essentially Ernst Röhm.
   1292. Lassus Posted: September 10, 2018 at 01:30 PM (#5741613)
I think Jolly would do more damage to the country as Trump.

In fairness, wouldn't this just mean for you that he said one or two nice things about a Teacher's Union?
   1293. PreservedFish Posted: September 10, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5741614)
I don't think it's fair to compare internet Andy with real life Trump. The Trump we see, the deranged idiot Narcissist, is as filtered and circumspect and manicured as he is capable of being. Just imagine what Trump would be like in an anonymous internet forum!!
   1294. DavidFoss Posted: September 10, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5741616)
The Hill article I read wasn't very helpful on this: is it a contested seat or not? Is it NOW a contested seat? Will there be a special election primary? Who is the Dem candidate?

The primaries were August 28th and there is a non-Desantis Republican candidate on the ballot.

https://ballotpedia.org/Florida's_6th_Congressional_District_election,_2018

Nancy Soderberg (D) vs Michael Waltz (R)

538 says its "lean R" and rates it a 71% chance of staying Republican.
   1295. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: September 10, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5741619)
The Trump we see, the deranged idiot Narcissist, is as filtered and circumspect and manicured as he is capable of being.

I don't think he has a filter or circumspection.
   1296. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5741621)
The Trump we see, the deranged idiot Narcissist, is as filtered and circumspect and manicured as he is capable of being.

I don't think he has a filter or circumspection.


I'd disagree. This would mean "public Trump" is as bad as Trump gets - and I do not agree with that being the case.

I mean, the ##### grabber tape exists - and that's probably closer to Trump unfiltered. FFS, the guy bragged about committing sexual assault - and he doesn't go around doing that every day.
   1297. PreservedFish Posted: September 10, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5741623)
I don't think he has a filter or circumspection.


Nobody acts exactly the same in front of all audiences.
   1298. Zonk is a Doppleclapper Posted: September 10, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5741626)
MY biggest problem - well, two biggest problems - with this "Oh, Trump has no filter" is that I think it's a double-edged BS sword.

First - it implies a sort of "At least this is as bad as it gets..." Which, of course - Trump has continually shown that no, he can always get worse.

Second, it imbues him with this sort of brute 'honesty' - even when delivered as a backhand compliment - that he also clearly does not have.
   1299. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: September 10, 2018 at 02:15 PM (#5741628)
Thanks David. Saw today that Trump is -16 nationwide in favorability and -4 in Florida. Florida might be the reddest state (the most Trumpian) in the nation.
   1300. Panik on the streets of London (Trout! Trout!) Posted: September 10, 2018 at 02:18 PM (#5741629)
Yeah? Well my dog has 3 legs...


:)
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