Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Sunday, March 19, 2017

OTP 20 March 2017: This fighter for civil rights has baseball in her DNA

An interview with Bay Area activist and baseball fanatic Sunny Schwartz.

The S.F. Giants are gutsy and sincerely community-minded. They not only put money where their mouth is but they put their principles in action. They raised awareness of our [restorative justice] program. Graduates from our program stood shoulder-to-shoulder with survivors of violence in the ballpark before a game, saying they’d do the right thing. The Giants also took on AIDS awareness in the early ’90s. Today that doesn’t seem like a big deal, but back then it really was. They’ve also taken on domestic violence. Our first Strike Out Violence Day was in 1998 or ’99.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

 

BDC Posted: March 19, 2017 at 09:58 PM | 2086 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: activism, ballpark weddings, giants, politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 3 of 21 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 >  Last ›
   201. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:48 PM (#5420114)
Remember when Romney said Russia was our biggest threat, Obama scoffed and said "the 80s want their foreign policy back," and the loony left cheered him on and high-fived his insight?


Funnily enough, Romney said Russia was our biggest geopolitical foe (which - maybe - more adversarial than China, but less powerful), which Obama changed to "threat" for a one-liner (with three lines). Weirld, Obama took Ray's position, that Al-Quaida is the biggest threat to the US.
   202. madvillain Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5420116)
That's 3,000 more people than global warming will kill in the next hundred years.


Post some more Dilbert dude links, those are just as stupid as your hot takes, but they amuse me more.
   203. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5420117)
I'm not predicting war (although Mouse's points about DPRK in #194 are well-taken). I'm just saying that's the threat level.


The threat level is zero. Please try to occupy reality.
   204. Brian C Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5420118)
That's 3,000 more people than global warming will kill in the next hundred years.

As best, you are making a wildly optimistic prediction. More likely, you're just pig-ignorant.
   205. Morty Causa Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:50 PM (#5420119)
Remember when Romney said Russia was our biggest threat, Obama scoffed and said "the 80s want their foreign policy back," and the loony left cheered him on and high-fived his insight?

Now the loony left thinks Russia's our biggest threat again.

Wonder why?


Remember when you vowed to re-consider when you were presented with new evidence?
   206. Brian C Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:51 PM (#5420120)
Remember when Romney said Russia was our biggest threat, Obama scoffed and said "the 80s want their foreign policy back," and the loony left cheered him on and high-fived his insight?

Now the loony left thinks Russia's our biggest threat again.

... out of the three countries being discussed.
   207. Brian C Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:53 PM (#5420122)
Weirld, Obama took Ray's position, that Al-Quaida is the biggest threat to the US.

Of course, al-Qaeda barely exists these days (thanks Obama!), so it would be silly to list them as our #1 threat now.
   208. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:55 PM (#5420124)
As best, you are making a wildly optimistic prediction. More likely, you're just pig-ignorant.


Well and I guess all the people who have died since 2001 as a result of action by Russia, Iran, and North Korea don't count. I guess the only people are Americans and the only real threat to Americans is Terrorism. In Ray's Reality.
   209. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5420125)
Well and I guess all the people who have died since 2001 as a result of action by Russia, Iran, and North Korea don't count. I guess the only people are Americans and the only real threat to Americans is Terrorism. In Ray's Reality.


Indeed we were in fact discussing the threat to America.

Please try to keep up.

   210. Like Flies On Sherbert Posted: March 20, 2017 at 03:59 PM (#5420126)
The best analog to Putins electioneering games is, oddly enough, 9/11. Both were done to provoke and prod the enemy (the US.) both resulted in far greater benefit than expected due to the US doing amazingly stupid things (invading Iraq, electing Trump.)


Hyping Putin's role in the election is a big part of this wicked game.
   211. Like Flies On Sherbert Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:02 PM (#5420128)

I dunno what this has to do with politics either, but Chuck Berry did some pretty simple things too and they were great of their kind, so I wanted to celebrate musical simplicity. RIP.


Plus Texas.
   212. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:05 PM (#5420129)
So, like, Ray's dementia aside, is the number of Americans who've died as a result of global warming more or less than three thousand? Globally, it's obviously much higher (as global warming-related droughts were instrumental in setting of the Arab Spring, civil wars in Syria and Libya, etc.) But Americans? A few extra elderly kicking off when summer heat waves are worse than they'd otherwise be?
   213. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:05 PM (#5420130)
and the loony left cheered him on
Can someone draw a Venn Diagram depicting the "loony left" vs. "Modern Liberalism"?
   214. Sleepy's still holding up that little wild bouquet Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:07 PM (#5420133)
The threat level is zero. Please try to occupy reality.
This is a pretty amazing pair of sentences.
   215. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:12 PM (#5420135)
"Threat" is a pretty ambiguous word. The chance that Russia, North Korea, or Iran will destroy the United States is virtually nil (though Russia certainly could, given it has enough nukes to saturate the surface of the earth with 'em). The chance that they'll do things harmful to the US is virtually unity.
   216. SBB, Live from the Alt-Center Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:21 PM (#5420138)
So there's now no longer a chance that an Islamist group will set off a dirty bomb?

When did that happen?
   217. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:24 PM (#5420140)
So, like, Ray's dementia aside, is the number of Americans who've died as a result of global warming more or less than three thousand? Globally, it's obviously much higher (as global warming-related droughts were instrumental in setting of the Arab Spring, civil wars in Syria and Libya, etc.) But Americans? A few extra elderly kicking off when summer heat waves are worse than they'd otherwise be?


Your characterizing droughts or heat waves which have occurred since time immemorial as "global warming-related" assumes much that is not in evidence.
   218. Rickey! No. You move. Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:29 PM (#5420143)
His continued attempt to reason with you on the subject does too.
   219. madvillain Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:30 PM (#5420144)
I found it interesting how the MSM ate up Tillerson's "maybe Japan should have nukes to counter NK" statement at face value instead of reading the subtext which was aimed at China and the South China Sea buildup. Seems to me Tillerson is playing a rather dangerous game by tying non-proliferation to Chinese "behavior" in the waters, but with this cheese-dick state department that isn't even half staffed who the #### knows.
   220. Greg K Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:33 PM (#5420147)
I was reading an article the other day about how getting nukes is starting to bleed into mainstream German politics. The logic being, if the US doesn't 100% have our back, we'll have to get some of our own. Putting their trust in the Brits or the French is not likely to be satisfying.
   221. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:39 PM (#5420149)
Your characterizing droughts or heat waves which have occurred since time immemorial as "global warming-related" assumes much that is not in evidence.


We all have things that drive us irrationally nuts. I practically kicked a TV last week when ESPN's label over the guy they were interviewing said "Wayne Gretzky - NHL all time leader in Goals, Assists, and Points".

The key is to let it go, and do something productive, or at least that doesn't make you act like a gibbering lunatic. You and everyone else will be better off for it.
   222. zenbitz Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:48 PM (#5420155)
given it has enough nukes to saturate the surface of the earth with 'em


Nah. Earth is big. I doubt the entire nuclear arsenal of the world could come close to wiping out 50% of the population, even including any secondary kills/economic collapse.

   223. madvillain Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5420161)
Nah. Earth is big. I doubt the entire nuclear arsenal of the world could come close to wiping out 50% of the population, even including any secondary kills/economic collapse.


you'd be wrong.
   224. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:57 PM (#5420163)
Current nukes have a few thousands times the explosive power of Fat Man, which levelled 3-5 square miles. Russia has about 2000 of these, so call it ... 20 million square miles. The total land area of the Earth is around 60 million square miles.

Perhaps not quite saturation. But it's order of magnitude "Nuke Everywhere".
   225. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:57 PM (#5420164)
That's 3,000 more people than global warming will kill in the next hundred years.

Post some more Dilbert dude links, those are just as stupid as your hot takes, but they amuse me more.


I got most of my opinions on domestic policy from Andy Capp.
   226. TDF, situational idiot Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5420167)
That's 3,000 more people than global warming will kill in the next hundred years.
According to a recent EPA study, greenhouse gas mitigation will save 15,000 lives per year in the US by 2050 (33 years from now) and 69,000 per year in 2100 (scroll down to page 78). Both of those numbers are significantly higher than 3,000.
   227. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5420168)
Parsing aside, Romney was more right about Russia than Obama (and I scoffed along with everyone else). In part that's because of acts they've taken since the 2012 election (in other words, Romney's assessment turned out to be accurate in light of subsequent events). Those acts include invading Ukraine, destabilizing Europe and undermining democracy in several countries, notably and most importantly from the American perspective interfering in our election to the advantage of a dangerous lunatic. It's still a country with a relatively small economy - this isn't the cold war again - but it's dangerous.

Global warming is a bigger "threat" but I would say it's categorically different.
   228. zenbitz Posted: March 20, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5420169)
Don't we get to amortize terrorism deaths over the last X years? (At least 15... that's roughly 200 people/year). Malaria kills ~2M/year. So if global warming increases malaria deaths (by increasing mosquito range) by 0.01% then it's even. (Of course, these deaths are primarily outside the US)

I guess global warming could prevent the ~15 deaths/year in Chicago winters.
But this is, of course, counter balanced by:

Overall, a total of more than 9,000 Americans have died from heat-related causes since 1979, according to death certificates.
* That's 257/year. Obviously we cannot contribute more than a fraction of these to global warming per se.... but they seem reasonably comparable.

*Source: THE DREADED EPA


Of course this is all a completely unfair comparison; we need to compare ESTIMATED FUTURE deaths via terrorism to deaths vis global warming.
   229. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:01 PM (#5420171)
Anyone watch any of the Comey hearing today? The grandstanding (from both sides) was more unbearable than usual.
   230. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:03 PM (#5420173)
There are a lot of non-direct, negative effects of terrorism beyond just fatalities, like increasing fear level, increased costs of security, loss or degradation of privacy, etc. Of course it's hard to disentangle how many of these are self-imposed versus inevitable.
   231. Brian C Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:04 PM (#5420174)
I guess global warming could prevent the ~15 deaths/year in Chicago winters.

Unusually hot summers here in Chicago are more dangerous than the winters. Even most poor people have enough heat to stay alive. But the susceptible demographics don't do very well in non-air conditioned homes.
   232. Brian C Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:06 PM (#5420175)
So there's now no longer a chance that an Islamist group will set off a dirty bomb?

When did that happen?

Well, you know, it's funny - most scenarios in which a nuke is acquired by terrorists involve getting the bomb in the first place from ... Russia.
   233. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5420177)
Of course this is all a completely unfair comparison; we need to compare ESTIMATED FUTURE deaths via terrorism to deaths vis global warming.


And ... spoiler alert ... the US is not completely isolated from the rest of the world (despite what Ray clearly believes). Even if the US were completely proof from any and all effects of Global Warming, still it will impact the rest of the world and that in turn hits the US.

It is is completely ridiculous debate though, of course Iran, Russia, North Korea, Terrorism, AND Global Warming are ALL threats, along with a million other things. I guess we are supposed to ignore all threats but "Most Dangerous Ray approved Threats to US lives".

No thanks.
   234. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:08 PM (#5420178)
Well, you know, it's funny - most scenarios in which a nuke is acquired by terrorists involve getting the bomb in the first place from ... Russia.


Or any other place where they exist. Which is kind of why ... before Trump anyway ... non-proliferation was sort of a big deal. Now, I guess, we just shrug and say "Hey, the more the merrier!"
   235. zenbitz Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:09 PM (#5420179)
Current nukes have a few thousands times the explosive power of Fat Man, which levelled 3-5 square miles. Russia has about 2000 of these, so call it ... 20 million square miles. The total land area of the Earth is around 60 million square miles.


You can't just multiply the megatonnage to get the devastation area. A 1 MT bomb has a blast radius of about 4 miles (Fat man about 1), so 50 sq. miles x 2000 = 100,000 sq. miles not 20,000,000.

you'd be wrong.


Elaborate! We have this discussion here every couple of years, and I remember it taking something like 100,000 1 MT nukes to really do the job; total arsenal about 1/10th of that. However, I did just realize that I underestimated the global population fraction that lives in cities; it's basically 50%. So probably you could kill 50% with a reasonable strategy.

   236. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:13 PM (#5420183)
Elaborate! We have this discussion here every couple of years, and I remember it taking something like 100,000 1 MT nukes to really do the job; total arsenal about 1/10th of that. However, I did just realize that I underestimated the global population fraction that lives in cities; it's basically 50%. So probably you could kill 50% with a reasonable strategy.


I think you have to consider fallout, complete collapse of civilization, and the massive change to weather and everything else. Life, in some form, would pretty clearly survive. Maybe some people would survive, but civilization sure wouldn't. And I suspect between ecological collapse, weather changes, and radiation I don't like the odds of many people surviving. There are, though, many different factors, like where exactly the bombs detonate and so forth. Also how much US and other retaliation would there be?
   237. madvillain Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:14 PM (#5420184)
Elaborate! We have this discussion here every couple of years, and I remember it taking something like 100,000 1 MT nukes to really do the job; total arsenal about 1/10th of that. However, I did just realize that I underestimated the global population fraction that lives in cities; it's basically 50%. So probably you could kill 50% with a reasonable strategy.


I'm not a doomer and can't prove it (obviously) but I'd think the Nuclear Winter would kill off probably about 90% of the survivors within two years of a Russia/China/US/France/England/Etc shootout. Mass starvation.

You'd probably have some guys on subs stay alive, maybe some folks in the southern hemisphere, but with no Government things would quickly descend into anarchy. People always think they can just go into the mountains and survive but you really can't. There's maybe 100 people in the entire US that have the survival skills to 100% live off the land for a year, and even then they'd succumb to bad luck, disease, injury or other pratfall even with perfect skills. So that's not an option for most people, and the major cities would obviously be a wasteland for decades.
   238. madvillain Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:18 PM (#5420187)
This State Department is really something. Tillerson comes across as lazy and unprepared in this article.
   239. Sleepy's still holding up that little wild bouquet Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:20 PM (#5420189)
Parsing aside, Romney was more right about Russia than Obama (and I scoffed along with everyone else). In part that's because of acts they've taken since the 2012 election (in other words, Romney's assessment turned out to be accurate in light of subsequent events).
Interestingly, many of Putin's acts of aggression have been theorized by Stratfor et al to be the result of the very weakness that Obama mocked; a strongman like Putin can't tolerate being marginalized. To maintain political popularity at home, Putin needed to reassert Russia as a dominant power, at least in the eyes of Russian citizens. Crimea and Syria were great opportunities to focus negative energy outward.

It helped that bombing Syrian cities and splattering Ukrainian troops made lots of money for Russia's military industrial complex. Sales of Russian tanks and aircraft spiked after the Syria conflict.
   240. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:27 PM (#5420196)
Brookings Institute Senior Fellow Benjamin Wittes thinks that the less FBI Director James Comey said publicly today, and he didn't say much, the worse it was for Trump:
What is clear is that this was a very bad day for the President. In it, we learned that there is an open-ended Russia investigation with no timetable for completion, one that's going hang over Trump's head for a long time, and one to which the FBI director is entirely committed.
   241. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:28 PM (#5420197)
I can't find data on the yield of the Russia nukes - I had been figuring more like 10 MTs from what little data I saw. (And yeah, I had used area - I should've effectively scaled up the destruction volume like energy, no area - so, say (10 Mt/20 kts)^.66 ~ 250 square miles x 2000 = 500 000 square miles.

So, not the whole earth. Of course, we might all pray we're in one of the blasts so we don't have to listen to Ray drone on about how nuclear winter is a lefty conspiracy and there's no science behind the idea that blocking out all the sunlight will cause the planet to cool.
   242. Sleepy's still holding up that little wild bouquet Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:31 PM (#5420198)
And I suspect between ecological collapse, weather changes, and radiation I don't like the odds of many people surviving.
Not to mention the giant mutant ants. Eek.
   243. madvillain Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:31 PM (#5420199)
Brookings Institute Senior Fellow Benjamin Wittes thinks that the less FBI Director James Comey said publicly today, and he didn't say much, the worse it was for Trump:


Schindler seems to think this is the beginning of the end for Trump in more ways than one. I'm not sure I agree with him but it is astounding to see the FBI director, in a public hearing, for the entire world to see, say that the Emperor does indeed have no clothes. He called Trump a liar in the nice DC way of course, but the inferred point for readers and observers is that yes, Trump lied, and the FBI director just called him on it.
   244. Brian C Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:34 PM (#5420201)
People always think they can just go into the mountains and survive but you really can't. There's maybe 100 people in the entire US that have the survival skills to 100% live off the land for a year, and even then they'd succumb to bad luck, disease, injury or other pratfall even with perfect skills.

While we're quibbling about estimates, that "100" number seems low, unless you're specifically talking about the people skilled enough to survive in a post-apocalyptic land with the resultant lack of flora and fauna.
   245. madvillain Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:39 PM (#5420205)
While we're quibbling about estimates, that "100" number seems low, unless you're specifically talking about the people skilled enough to survive in a post-apocalyptic land with the resultant lack of flora and fauna.


I dunno. You've got your "outdoor leader" types, and park rangers, and mountaineers, but I'm talking like crazy enough to go off grid types that actually have tried to live on their own, in the wilderness, and done it successfully for a year or longer. That is a very small group in my estimation.

From what I've read, even the people that think they are ready, think they can do it, really can't. There's too much boredom (which leads to recklessness), not enough quality protein, and relying 100% on your own physical constitution is a dangerous game and leaves too much to luck.

Maybe if people banded together and formed small groups of 20-50 and were able to rely on each other they'd survive but not in isolation.
   246. gef the talking mongoose Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:39 PM (#5420206)
Not to mention the giant mutant ants. Eek.


Either the first or second movie (I saw House of Wax around the same time) to scare the crap out of me, back when I was 7. Still a huge favorite.
   247. SBB, Live from the Alt-Center Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:41 PM (#5420209)
What is clear is that this was a very bad day for the President. In it, we learned that there is an open-ended Russia investigation with no timetable for completion, one that's going hang over Trump's head for a long time, and one to which the FBI director is entirely committed.

Any day now, it's all going to unravel.

Any day now.
   248. Sebastian Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:44 PM (#5420210)
Are dirty bombs an actual thing? The chemistry and physics involved are way over my head, but wouldn’t the bomb part be the most destructive aspect anyway?
   249. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:45 PM (#5420211)
Schindler seems to think this is the beginning of the end for Trump in more ways than one.


Nah. His base still loves him. They need something firm enough to convince ... well for example the Trumpkins here on this very board. Imagine what it would take to shake those folks from their love of all things GOP President Trump and there you go.

Random FBI investigations is not going to do that. Oh sure he will be weakened, but it is not as if the Trump Administration is accomplishing all that much right now.

The best Trump is a Trump who is loved by his base and disliked by the Center and Left. A GOP split, with Trump playing off the factions so they suck up to him, while nothing happens for the next few years is the best I can hope for.
   250. madvillain Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:46 PM (#5420215)
Are dirty bombs an actual thing? The chemistry and physics involved are way over my head, but wouldn’t the bomb part be the most destructive aspect anyway?


Not really. The effort required wouldn't match the destruction, that's for sure. It would be much easier to just modify some AR-13s and go shoot up a public square.
   251. Brian C Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:46 PM (#5420216)
I dunno. You've got your "outdoor leader" types, and park rangers, and mountaineers, but I'm talking like crazy enough to go off grid types that actually have tried to live on their own, in the wilderness, and done it successfully for a year or longer. That is a very small group in my estimation.

From what I've read, even the people that think they are ready, think they can do it, really can't. There's too much boredom (which leads to recklessness), not enough quality protein, and relying 100% on your own physical constitution is a dangerous game and leaves too much to luck.

I don't doubt that it's incredibly hard, and way harder than most people think, but 100 is such a ridiculously low number. I think way more than that could survive just by random luck.
   252. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:46 PM (#5420217)
Schindler seems to think this is the beginning of the end for Trump in more ways than one.


Keep Hope Alive!
   253. Like Flies On Sherbert Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:49 PM (#5420218)
really something. Tillerson comes across as lazy and unprepared in this article.


Am editorial by a NeverTrump Iraq War supporter. Though I admit articles and editorials are barely distinguishable in WP.
   254. madvillain Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:49 PM (#5420219)
Nah. His base still loves him. They need something firm enough to convince ... well for example the Trumpkins here on this very board. Imagine what it would take to shake those folks from their love of all things GOP President Trump and there you go.


I perused Breitbart there is some dissension in the ranks.
   255. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:50 PM (#5420220)

Any day now, it's all going to unravel.

Any day now.


They've been predicting the end of Trump is night for almost two years now. There's just no grounding in reality.

What are they going to do, impeach and convict him? Is he going to step down? WTF does "it's the beginning of the end" even mean, procedurally?

At that, it's not even internally consistent. If "the beginning of the end" was in the summer of 2015, aren't we now at "the end of the beginning of the end"? How could we still be at the beginning? Man's been elected president.
   256. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:57 PM (#5420222)
Any day now, it's all going to unravel.
Any day now.


How's that Hillary indictment coming?

(Hilariously, this is the phrase you actually used, unlike what anyone has literally said about Trump.)
   257. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 20, 2017 at 05:58 PM (#5420224)
SBB responding, #247:
What is clear is that this was a very bad day for the President. In it, we learned that there is an open-ended Russia investigation with no timetable for completion, one that's going hang over Trump's head for a long time, and one to which the FBI director is entirely committed.

Any day now, it's all going to unravel.

Any day now.



Watergate took 20 months from the Ellsberg break-in to the first day of the Congressional hearings, and then another 16 months until Nixon's resignation.

Iran-Contra took 14 months from the first arms delivery to Iran until the plot was publicly revealed, and then another half year until just the first day of the Congressional hearings.

After Joseph Wilson, the husband of Valerie Plame, had his name illegally leaked, Scooter Libby was convicted for his involvement 44 months later.

This might not be anywhere close to those, or this might be worse. But what this definitely is is the 60th day of the Trump presidency.
   258. Like Flies On Sherbert Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:02 PM (#5420227)
Forget 50's r'n'r, cold war nostalgia is today's theme.

invading Ukraine, destabilizing Europe and undermining democracy in several countries, notably and most importantly from the American perspective interfering in our election to the advantage of a dangerous lunatic.


You don't have to own a copy of the Noam Chomsky reader to understand all the Rosebud talk ignores provocative action from the 'good guys' -- a Ukrainian coup, ecinomic austerity for Southern European countries, including election meddling, overt and covert military action in N Africa and the ME leading to a refugee crisis, etc, etc.... all the way to a not unsubtle campaign backing an American coup as well.

Democracy is meaningless in the face of an unchecked National Security State. Putin is one in a long line of bogeymen that serves its propaganda campaign to a T.
   259. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:03 PM (#5420229)
If Trump's merely investigated, and nothing is turned up beyond what we already know (or let's say, Flynn is even dirtier, but Trump's just a buffoon who didn't notice), very little additional damage will result.

If the investigation turns up something substantial (and the public finds out), then different scenarios play out, depending on how complicated it is. If Trump took at $13 billion bribe to end sanctions on Russia - that's too effin' easy for the man on the street to understand, and he'll get impeached. Even with a Republican house and senate - none of whom will want to face the "Vote Republican, Comrade, or it's the Gulag's for you" ads. Other things ... depends, depends, depends.

But yeah, the 24 hour news cycle has warped a lot of brains. The FBI confirmed it has an ongoing investigation, which is what's setting the timeline for whatever happens. Maybe something, maybe nothing. But nothing until that's over.

I mean, unless Trump tweets that he accepted bribes from Putin, but so did Obama ... or something. Own goals remain a possibility.
   260. Like Flies On Sherbert Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:07 PM (#5420230)
Imagine what it would take to shake those folks


A shred of evidence.
   261. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:07 PM (#5420231)
If Trump took at $13 billion bribe to end sanctions on Russia -


Someone somewhere on the planet dying from global warming is more likely.
   262. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:09 PM (#5420232)
Did Ray actually predict that Trump was going to win the general election? Feel like this comes up A LOT.
   263. SBB, Live from the Alt-Center Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:12 PM (#5420234)
Watergate took 20 months from the Ellsberg break-in to the first day of the Congressional hearings, and then another 16 months until Nixon's resignation.

There's no Ellsberg break-in here.
   264. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:13 PM (#5420235)
Ben Wittes runs a great website for national security and law issues called Lawfare. Highly recommend it, particularly for the lawyers here.

On the other hand, Schindler seems like a nut.
   265. Greg K Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:16 PM (#5420236)
You don't have to own a copy of the Noam Chomsky reader to understand all the Rosebud talk ignores provocative action from the 'good guys' -- a Ukrainian coup, ecinomic austerity for Southern European countries, including election meddling, overt and covert military action in N Africa and the ME leading to a refugee crisis, etc, etc.... all the way to a not unsubtle campaign backing an American coup as well.

I think this gives too much credit to US/European power and competence. I think Arab Spring caught many in the West off guard, and the response was pretty half-hearted (a mixture of naive optimism about the outcome of rebellions against guys like Qaddafi and a lack of political will to engage with force after Iraq). The refugee crisis also seems like the product of short-sightenedness on the part of Europe. Instead of attempting much at all in the way of alleviating the crisis in the region, Europe let it fester to the point that it stopped being Syria's neighbours problem and became their problem. To me, this seems like an analogous to the climate change discussion the other day. Probably cheaper to find some way to assist/incentivize a regional solution to the problem, but if you wait until it's a tangible problem for you, you get stuck in a political dilemma. The end result of which is getting extorted by Turkey to solve your intractable problem for you.

As for Russia-Ukraine, I read that as a small (in terms of power) nation balanced between two blocs, trying to maintain a balance of playing one off the other. Eventually it all blew up, largely because Russia feels like it has an existential interest in Ukraine's balance of power. Russia can't afford to let Ukraine fall into the EU's orbit, while the EU isn't nearly as invested. The main difference between the two blocs is Russia's much more willing to go all-in to further its interests.

EDIT: In other words, I see the problem in Europe as the EU sort of muddling through being a work in progress, while at the same time being an actual actor at the same time you have Russia increasingly insecure about what an expanding EU means for them.
   266. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:18 PM (#5420237)
SBB, #263:
There's no Ellsberg break-in here.


The Ellsberg break-in is the first Russian hack, or the first meeting with Flynn, or whatever the earliest inciting incident is.

It's not a direct parallel, it's an example of how long a major political scandal can take to rumble from its starting gate to its conclusion, Mr. Any Day Now.

It's not a one-to-one value judgment either, just a series of relevant timelines. Nor is it a prediction; for example, Iran-Contra was probably worse than Watergate, and yet its participants were punished less severely or not at all.

But it's been 20 minutes since your previous post, and Trump STILL hasn't been indicted. Looking good!
   267. Sleepy's still holding up that little wild bouquet Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:20 PM (#5420238)
At that, it's not even internally consistent. If "the beginning of the end" was in the summer of 2015, aren't we now at "the end of the beginning of the end"? How could we still be at the beginning? Man's been elected president.
What if "Cat" was spelled "d-o-g"???
   268. Like Flies On Sherbert Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:42 PM (#5420245)
I think this gives too much credit to US/European power and competence.


It doesn't take a lot of competence and a relatively small use of power to break something. That's the crux of the problem, really -- a loss of confidence in the technocrats to fix things.
   269. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:43 PM (#5420246)
You'd probably have some guys on subs stay alive, maybe some folks in the southern hemisphere, but with no Government things would quickly descend into anarchy.
Don't forget the zombies.
   270. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:45 PM (#5420247)
What are you looking at, smoothskin?
   271. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:46 PM (#5420248)

It's not a direct parallel, it's an example of how long a major political scandal can take to rumble from its starting gate to its conclusion, Mr. Any Day Now.


You just wait, the investigation into Obama's wiretapping of Trump Tower is just getting warmed up!
   272. greenback fixes the cable Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:47 PM (#5420250)
On the other hand, Schindler seems like a nut.

I don't know, I assume he makes decent money as The Guy Who Makes Bold, Yet Silly, Statements About Today's National Security Issues. Kinda poopy way to monetize his CV though.
   273. Like Flies On Sherbert Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:50 PM (#5420251)
You would think the Clinton years proved going balls out to politically take out an opponent not only innoculates them from circumstantial evidence, but improves their standing amongst those who haven't taken sides. And having taken sides, you've incentivized me not to give any ground.

Say your fondest wishes come true and the impeachment process starts up, you're burning the ground you hope will bear fruit in the future. 1998 was a very bad year for the US, and undoubtedly contributed to being caught flat-footed on 9/11.

What could our enemies do to #### us over worse than we're intent on doing to ourselves?
   274. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:55 PM (#5420254)
Concern trolling at its finest. ****/5
   275. Greg K Posted: March 20, 2017 at 06:59 PM (#5420256)
It doesn't take a lot of competence and a relatively small use of power to break something. That's the crux of the problem, really -- a loss of confidence in the technocrats to fix things.

Right...I just think Occam's Razor applies here. The loss of confidence in technocrats to fix things was due to incompetence rather than a targeted application of power and competence.

The EU gambled that they could get away with economic integration (especially a common currency) while political integration continued at its own, slower pace. The great convergence didn't happen, and when crisis struck the whole system was caught with its pants down.

The permissive consensus has broken down because the technocrats stopped delivering results.
   276. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:13 PM (#5420262)
Stay Off Twitter, Vol. 896,712: Kellyanne Conway, five months ago:
Most honest people I know are not under FBI investigation, let alone two.
   277. SBB, Live from the Alt-Center Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:14 PM (#5420263)
It's not a direct parallel, it's an example of how long a major political scandal can take to rumble from its starting gate to its conclusion, Mr. Any Day Now.

It's not a "major political scandal" in any way, shape, or form.(*)

And if you can't identify the "inciting event," as you call it ... well, maybe there's a lesson there.

(*) There's certainly a subject worthy of intense investigation, which is the Russian hacking efforts in general. But there's nothing "political" about such an investigation.
   278. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:15 PM (#5420264)
Yeah, and my impression is that even given the Euro mistake, Europe could have come through the financial crisis much better if the big players had better political leadership, like if they elected an Obama-type figure who was technocratic but was also anti-austerity.
   279. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:16 PM (#5420266)
what's the theory for why Flynn supposedly lied to Pence?
   280. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:17 PM (#5420267)
Someone somewhere on the planet dying from global warming is more likely.


Things that are a given are more likely than things that are merely possible. Have you been taking a stats class?
   281. TDF, situational idiot Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:20 PM (#5420269)
Someone somewhere on the planet dying from global warming is more likely. happening as week speak:
Twenty governments commissioned an independent report in 2012 from the group DARA International to study the human and economic costs of climate change. It linked 400,000 deaths worldwide to climate change each year, projecting deaths to increase to over 600,000 per year by 2030.
   282. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:22 PM (#5420270)
Things that are a given are more likely than things that are merely possible. Have you been taking a stats class?


Sorta.
   283. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:22 PM (#5420271)
SBB, #277:
It's not a "major political scandal" in any way, shape, or form.(*)

And if you can't identify the "inciting event," as you call it ... well, maybe there's a lesson there.

(*) There's certainly a subject worthy of intense investigation, which is the Russian hacking efforts in general. But there's nothing "political" about such an investigation.



New to this politics thing?
   284. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:26 PM (#5420272)
For those looking for a cheap 90 minutes of entertainment, i enjoyed The Belko Experiment.

It's not even my genre. But it's as much a study of the human condition especially once conditions break down as any of the crap the Academy masturbates over in making its Oscar nominations.
   285. zonk Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:26 PM (#5420273)
what's the theory for why Flynn supposedly lied to Pence?


Well, his excuse always seems to be that he's a naive, forgetful old man...
   286. Greg K Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:26 PM (#5420274)
Yeah, and my impression is that even given the Euro mistake, Europe could have come through the financial crisis much better if the big players had better political leadership, like if they elected an Obama-type figure who was technocratic but was also anti-austerity.

I think there is sort an in-built bias against that. Which of course, could have been overcome by altruistic, big-picture leadership from Germany...but that's a tall ask. It would require a German political leader willing to act against the short-term interests of his/her own nation in the name of the larger European project. Technically possible perhaps, but the half-completed work of political integration means that as currently constructed the EU doesn't really provide much incentive for a politician to do that.

I think the best case scenario now is that the ad hoc institutions set up to respond to the crisis for the basis of a renewed integration effort. For instance, the ECB starts acting like a national bank (something they always resisted) out of necessity. It's sort of #### or get off the pot time for Europe...and I hope they drop a big steaming pile! I suppose the other alternative is focus entirely on the economic aspects of the Union, as they seem to remain broadly popular. Would be a bit of a let down, but still something.
   287. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:29 PM (#5420275)
Twenty governments commissioned an independent report in 2012 from the group DARA International to study the human and economic costs of climate change. It linked 400,000 deaths worldwide to climate change each year, projecting deaths to increase to over 600,000 per year by 2030.


I heard that floods, droughts, malaria, famine, and disease never existed before global warming took hold over the past decades.
   288. SBB, Live from the Alt-Center Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:30 PM (#5420276)
New to this politics thing?

No -- that's why my insights are so insightful. The only "scandal" here is in the imagination of the left. There's a non-zero chance, I guess, that something scandalous could come out, but on the record established now, there's nothing remotely scandalous about any of it. Two major modern lefty outlets -- the Times and New Yorker -- have both reported that their intelligence sources have concluded that there's "no evidence" of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia or the hackers. (*)

Wake us when that changes. Until it does, I'll counteroffer a much more applicable link:

The Anthem of the Modern Liberal

(*) But any day now, the right questions will be asked and it will finally, at long last, all unravel. Any day now.
   289. Greg K Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:30 PM (#5420277)
For those looking for a cheap 90 minutes of entertainment, i enjoyed The Belko Experiment.

Reading the wikipedia page, it sounds a bit like Battle Royale, which was good fun.
   290. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:33 PM (#5420278)
Okay, 282 was wittier than I've ever been.
   291. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:34 PM (#5420279)
I heard that floods, droughts, malaria, famine, and disease never existed before global warming took hold over the past decades.


And I heard that since I had money before I left for work, I must not have been paid.
   292. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:36 PM (#5420280)
Rep. Adam Schiff:
Mr. President, the Russians hacked our election and interfered. No one disputes this now, but you. This is what is called "fact".
It's more difficult to take the Ranking Member's points seriously when he insists on using the disingenuous phrase "hacked our election."
   293. SBB, Live from the Alt-Center Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:43 PM (#5420283)
It's more difficult to take the Ranking Member's points seriously if he insists on using the disingenuous phrase "hacked our election."

Literal interpretation of tweets is a standard only to be applied to Donald Trump. Get with the program.

   294. Brian C Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:43 PM (#5420284)
It's more difficult to take the Ranking Member's points seriously when he insists on using the disingenuous phrase "hacked our election."

True, but it also makes it easier for the likes of you to run interference, so I know that your complaint here is itself disingenuous.
   295. SBB, Live from the Alt-Center Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:45 PM (#5420285)
True, but it also makes it easier for the likes of you to run interference, so I know that your complaint here is itself disingenuous.

If Russia is such a massive threat, doesn't it naturally follow that US officials shouldn't make baseless allegations against it? Or is that too logical?
   296. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:46 PM (#5420286)
The Anthem of the Modern Liberal

Anyone acknowledging the existence of that song has no business criticizing anyone else on music, or any music, period.
   297. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:46 PM (#5420287)
have both reported that their intelligence sources have concluded that there's "no evidence" of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia or the hackers
Since you have already told us that you can't believe such reports, it would be hypocritical of you to say this, so I am going to assume you left your computer and someone else typed this.

The claim that investigations have "concluded" anything would be false, as we know from Comey's testimony today. There is an ongoing investigation of Russian interference in the election. "And that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts."
   298. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:53 PM (#5420290)
True, but it also makes it easier for the likes of you to run interference, so I know that your complaint here is itself disingenuous.
Since you're hooked on my choice of the adjective "disingenuous" pertaining to the Russia issue, Brian C, this clip's for you.
   299. Omineca Greg Posted: March 20, 2017 at 07:55 PM (#5420292)
Forget 50's r'n'r, cold war nostalgia is today's theme.


There's no reason you can't do both!

Bill Haley

Last night I was dreaming, dreamed about the H-bomb
Well, the bomb went off and I was caught
I was the only man on the ground
There was a-thirteen women and only one man in town
Thirteen women and only one man in town
And as funny as it may be
The one and only man in town was me
Well, thirteen woman and me the only man around

I had two girls every morning
Seeing that I was well fed
And believe you me, one sweetened my tea
While another one buttered my bread
Two girls gave me my money
Two girls made me my clothes
And another sweet thing, bought me a diamond ring
About forty carats I suppose
Well, thirteen women and only one man in town
There was a-thirteen women and only one man in town
It was something I can't forget
Because I think of those thirteen women yet
Well, thirteen woman and only one man around

I had three girls dancing the mambo
Three girls balling the jack
And all of the rest really did their best
Boy, they sure were a lively pack
I thought I was in heaven
And all of these angels were mine
But I woke up and ended the dream
'Cause I had to get to work on time
Well, a-thirteen women and only one man in town
There was a-thirteen women and only one man in town
No, I can't tell you where I've been
'Cause I kind of think that someday I'll go back again
To those thirteen women and me the only man around
Well, a-thirteen women and me the only man around
Well, a-thirteen women and me the only man around

Dickie Thompson


Now that's thinking positive!
   300. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:05 PM (#5420295)
I think there is sort an in-built bias against that. Which of course, could have been overcome by altruistic, big-picture leadership from Germany...but that's a tall ask. It would require a German political leader willing to act against the short-term interests of his/her own nation in the name of the larger European project. Technically possible perhaps, but the half-completed work of political integration means that as currently constructed the EU doesn't really provide much incentive for a politician to do that.



I agree with this, and fundamentally political structures have to be built so that decent outcomes are not reliant on the altruism of political leaders.
Page 3 of 21 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
James Kannengieser
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogNoah Syndergaard scratched from start | MLB.com
(15 - 8:10am, Apr 28)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogOTP 24 April 2017: Talking politics (and baseball) with the mayor
(766 - 8:05am, Apr 28)
Last: David Nieporent (now, with children)

NewsblogHarsher punishment for pitchers who throw at hitters’ heads may do more harm than good
(5 - 8:00am, Apr 28)
Last: Jose is El Absurd Pollo

NewsblogIs baseball too slow? The battle lines are drawn -- and MLB is taking a side
(57 - 7:51am, Apr 28)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogDodgers to call up top prospect Cody Bellinger to aid outfield
(12 - 7:38am, Apr 28)
Last: Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

NewsblogHunter Greene Done Pitching For The Season | BaseballAmerica.com
(14 - 6:27am, Apr 28)
Last: Bug Selig

NewsblogMarlins expecting to finalize $1.3B deal to sell team to Jeb Bush, Derek Jeter group
(130 - 6:24am, Apr 28)
Last: Joyful Calculus Instructor

NewsblogInside Baseball | Where Potential Sellers Stand Right Now
(16 - 3:04am, Apr 28)
Last: vortex of dissipation

NewsblogI'll have a venti iced OMNICHATTER, please, April 27, 2017
(207 - 1:41am, Apr 28)
Last: Bote Man

NewsblogOT - March 2017 NBA thread
(2522 - 1:27am, Apr 28)
Last: Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around

NewsblogRed Sox have no clubhouse issues with Dustin Pedroia, Matt Barnes
(8 - 12:03am, Apr 28)
Last: dave h

NewsblogESPN will cut 100 on-air personalities today
(278 - 10:20pm, Apr 27)
Last: PASTE does not get put on waivers in August

NewsblogOT: March-April 2017 Soccer Thread
(333 - 6:49pm, Apr 27)
Last: AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther

Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(195 - 6:34pm, Apr 27)
Last: Rob_Wood

NewsblogESPN layoffs: A running list of reporters, anchors fired by the network - The Washington Post
(76 - 5:57pm, Apr 27)
Last: 6 - 4 - 3

Page rendered in 0.9078 seconds
47 querie(s) executed