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Sunday, March 19, 2017

OTP 20 March 2017: This fighter for civil rights has baseball in her DNA

An interview with Bay Area activist and baseball fanatic Sunny Schwartz.

The S.F. Giants are gutsy and sincerely community-minded. They not only put money where their mouth is but they put their principles in action. They raised awareness of our [restorative justice] program. Graduates from our program stood shoulder-to-shoulder with survivors of violence in the ballpark before a game, saying they’d do the right thing. The Giants also took on AIDS awareness in the early ’90s. Today that doesn’t seem like a big deal, but back then it really was. They’ve also taken on domestic violence. Our first Strike Out Violence Day was in 1998 or ’99.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

 

BDC Posted: March 19, 2017 at 09:58 PM | 2086 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: activism, ballpark weddings, giants, politics

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   301. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:06 PM (#5420296)
I heard that floods, droughts, malaria, famine, and disease never existed before global warming took hold over the past decades.


You've heard all sorts of fanciful things, from which you derive the most hilariously foolish conclusions.
   302. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:06 PM (#5420297)

So, I watched the Gorsuch hearings today. (Yes, I am a law geek.) Not very interesting, and of course this is all theater. Everyone knows he's very qualified, so the only thing going on here is Democrats dipping their toes in the political waters to decide whether their base demands a filibuster out of a fit of pique. Of course, their hope is that they can drag this out long enough that someone comes forward to say that Gorsuch sexually assaulted them twenty years ago or whatever. So far, all they have is a pathetic, bad faith attempt at personal destruction from some Democratic hack. Tomorrow, the real grandstanding begins, as senators who know as much about the judiciary as I do about hockey try to pin him down with stupid questions that show they know as much about the judiciary as I do about hockey. (It's played on ice, right?)
   303. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:07 PM (#5420298)
what's the theory for why Flynn supposedly lied to Pence?



Well, his excuse always seems to be that he's a naive, forgetful old man...


Is the official explanation that they fired him because he forgot to tell Pence about an innocuous meeting? What's the Trump apologist spin on this?
   304. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:10 PM (#5420299)
Judicial hearings are almost always terrible. The big objection to Gorsuch is that the seat was brazenly stolen, not that Gorsuch himself is terrible. While the Elizabeth Warren paragraph quoted here earlier today seemed basically accurate (my impression is he is likely to be very far to the right on the administrative state), I don't know if "he might vote to overturn chevron" is compelling.
   305. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:15 PM (#5420300)
Diane Feinstein, on why judges should make up law rather than reading the Constitution:
Feinstein noted that at the time of the document’s initial drafting, slavery was still an institution and women were still being burned at the stake for witchcraft.
TF? No women were ever burned at the stake in the U.S. for witchcraft, and by 1789 witch trials were long over. (Not that I know what this has to do with the price of tea in China anyway.)
   306. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5420301)
They were being burned somewhere!
   307. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5420303)
The claim that investigations have "concluded" anything would be false, as we know from Comey's testimony today. There is an ongoing investigation of Russian interference in the election. "And that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts."
This is a good point. On a similar note, Comey said the FBI's investigating the possibility of links between Russia and the Trump campaign, not there are/were links.
   308. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:16 PM (#5420304)
Are libertarians inherently originalists?
   309. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:23 PM (#5420307)
Man, it's been like thirty years since a nominee for the Supreme court was confirmed unanimously or nearly unanimously, and yet so many people are crying themselves to sleep over that the fact that a candidate the public supports like 60-40 might get similar support in the senate.
   310. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:26 PM (#5420308)
While the Elizabeth Warren paragraph quoted here earlier today seemed basically accurate (my impression is he is likely to be very far to the right on the administrative state), I don't know if "he might vote to overturn chevron" is compelling.
On the issue of siding with the powerful, Warren ought to have a word with Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who joined the majority in Kelo v. City of New London, Conn..
   311. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:28 PM (#5420309)
my impression is he is likely to be very far to the right on the administrative state), I don't know if "he might vote to overturn chevron" is compelling.
While I don't think it would be compelling, I don't know why you characterize his anti-Chevron position as "very far to the right." Again, administrative deference has no political valence. If the president is a Democrat, then Chevron will lead on average to liberal outcomes, but if the president is a Republican, then it won't. (All that assumes that Gorsuch could attract 4 other votes for undermining Chevron.)


(For those not in the know (and to oversimplify a bit): Chevron deference refers to the implementation of laws by the administrative state. When Congress passes a law, it implicitly or explicitly delegates to executive branch agencies the job of drafting regulations to enforce those laws. Obviously, there will be disputes about whether any particular regulation faithfully implements the law. Chevron deference requires a court to uphold a regulation if it is a reasonable interpretation of the statute, then the regulation stands. Without Chevron, the court would ask what the best interpretation of the statute is. So Gorsuch's anti-Chevron position basically shifts power from the executive to the judicial branch.)
   312. Morty Causa Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:28 PM (#5420310)
“There Is No Question That Something Happened”

As Spicer read aloud from the March 1 Times story, he skipped the part that said U.S. intelligence agencies had “intercepted communications of Russian officials, some of them within the Kremlin, discussing contacts with Trump associates.” He ignored the part that said our European allies had supplied “information about people close to Mr. Trump meeting with Russians in the Netherlands, Britain and other countries.” He passed over the sentence noting that in the previous two weeks, “more than a half-dozen officials have confirmed contacts of various kinds between Russians and Trump associates.”


What's sauce for the gander is sauce for the goober.
   313. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:33 PM (#5420311)
Man, it's been like thirty years since a nominee for the Supreme court was confirmed unanimously or nearly unanimously,
Ginsburg was confirmed 96-3. Breyer only got 9 no votes.
and yet so many people are crying themselves to sleep over that the fact that a candidate the public supports like 60-40 might get similar support in the senate.
If you're implying that there as many as 100 Americans who have informed views of Gorsuch, I think that's a small underestimate -- maybe twice that many? I don't hear anyone crying. I do think it's a shame that well-qualified nominees attract such fierce opposition, and even filibusters.
   314. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:47 PM (#5420314)
As Spicer read aloud from the March 1 Times story, he skipped the part that said U.S. intelligence agencies had “intercepted communications of Russian officials, some of them within the Kremlin, discussing contacts with Trump associates.” He ignored the part that said our European allies had supplied “information about people close to Mr. Trump meeting with Russians in the Netherlands, Britain and other countries.” He passed over the sentence noting that in the previous two weeks, “more than a half-dozen officials have confirmed contacts of various kinds between Russians and Trump associates.”


We already know, and shouldn't remotely be surprised, that people in the Trump campaign met with Russians. So, for that matter, did Tony Podesta and thousands of other Americans. Americans do business with Russians and Americans talk to Russians, in and out of government.
   315. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:47 PM (#5420315)
Meh, who cares on Gorsuch... Unless he shows up to the hearing without pants on, he'll be confirmed... it will probably be something like 65-35... that 35 will be pure politics... meh... a thousand times meh.

All I want Democrats to do when questioning him is embarrass and annoy Trump:

"Can you describe your ethnicity? Did your ancestors leave you with any blood taint that would render you unable to fairly adjudicate any matter or party that might have friction with your ancestor's homeland?"

"If someone called you a "so-called judge" because you decided a matter a certain way, would it offend you?"

"Given the expanded powers proposed for the judiciary by the current President - passing laws and such - can you provide some insight as to which would be your key legislative priorities under such a proposed rearchitecture of the judiciary?"

...and so on.

   316. Morty Causa Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:49 PM (#5420316)
We already know, and shouldn't remotely be surprised, that people in the Trump campaign met with Russians. So, for that matter, did Tony Podesta and thousands of other Americans. Americans do business with Russians and Americans talk to Russians, in and out of government.

Then they shouldn't deny it or try to hide it, and they should be forthcoming about what was discussed.
   317. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:50 PM (#5420317)
Paul Manafort? Michael Flynn?

Never heard of 'em... There was this volunteer that answered a few phones and fetched coffee... I think his name was Paul or Mike, but I am unfamiliar with these specific people you mention.
   318. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:52 PM (#5420318)
--
   319. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:53 PM (#5420319)
Paul Manafort? Michael Flynn?

They talked with Russians. You know what, I bet Hillary Clinton did, too, between July 2015 and Inauguration Day. We know Tony Podesta did.
   320. Count Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:54 PM (#5420320)
While I don't think it would be compelling, I don't know why you characterize his anti-Chevron position as "very far to the right." Again, administrative deference has no political valence. If the president is a Democrat, then Chevron will lead on average to liberal outcomes, but if the president is a Republican, then it won't. (All that assumes that Gorsuch could attract 4 other votes for undermining Chevron.)


(For those not in the know (and to oversimplify a bit): Chevron deference refers to the implementation of laws by the administrative state. When Congress passes a law, it implicitly or explicitly delegates to executive branch agencies the job of drafting regulations to enforce those laws. Obviously, there will be disputes about whether any particular regulation faithfully implements the law. Chevron deference requires a court to uphold a regulation if it is a reasonable interpretation of the statute, then the regulation stands. Without Chevron, the court would ask what the best interpretation of the statute is. So Gorsuch's anti-Chevron position basically shifts power from the executive to the judicial branch.)


This is at best a huge oversell - conservatives (at least ostensibly) don't like the administrative state and reducing deference to regulators is a conservative goal. And I thought conservatives would argue that overturning Chevron would shift power from the executive to the legislative branch?

Interesting chart here on how the justices have voted on liberal and conservative administrative agency cases. Shockingly, it suggests that liberals are more likely to uphold a liberal agency decision and conservatives are more likely to uphold a conservative agency decision.

   321. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:55 PM (#5420321)
AOL News:

CNN host Fareed Zakaria asked Dmitry Peskov in an interview that aired on Sunday if Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak had meetings with Clinton campaign officials. Peskov responded, "Well, if you look at some people connected with Hillary Clinton during her campaign, you would probably see that he had lots of meetings of that kind ... In no way it should be presented as interference in [the] electoral process."
   322. The Yankee Clapper Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:56 PM (#5420322)
So, I watched the Gorsuch hearings today. . .

I was at the ballpark today, but this seems like the most interesting aspect of today's hearing:
Gorsuch had a few key validators from the left. One prominent member of the Democratic legal establishment, former acting Obama administration solicitor general Neal Katyal, was given a prominent speaking slot to endorse Gorsuch’s nomination.

Katyal, who was part of the legal team that last week blocked Trump’s revised travel ban order, was quick to emphasize that his backing of Gorsuch should not be seen as a slight against Garland.

“It is a tragedy of national proportions that Merrick Garland does not sit on the court,” Katyal told senators. “It would take a lot to get over that, and, indeed, there is less than a handful of people that the president could have nominated to even start to rebuild that loss of trust. But in my opinion, Neil Gorsuch is one.”

Colorado Sen. Michael Bennet — one Democrat under major pressure to confirm Gorsuch — also referred to the Garland blockade, calling the Republican gambit an “embarrassment” but one that he would not reciprocate with Gorsuch.

“Two wrongs never make a right,” Bennet said. As one of Gorsuch’s home-state senators, Bennet introduced him at the confirmation hearing and said he was keeping an “open mind” on how he would ultimately vote.

Just opening statements today; Q & A tomorrow.
   323. Morty Causa Posted: March 20, 2017 at 08:58 PM (#5420323)
319:

See 316.

This ain't rocket science. How often has it come out that an adversarial global power like Russia has been found to insert itself into an election like the concerted intellectual community says it did. And that insertion was apparently one-sided. An investigation is at least warranted.
   324. BrianBrianson Posted: March 20, 2017 at 09:03 PM (#5420324)
Okay, so it's only 23 years since a supreme court justice was appointed without significant opposition, not 30. You'll have to forgive me, I wasn't watching Supreme Court nominations when I was on grade 7. But now, I'm not a schoolboy, I'm a middle-aged man.
   325. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 20, 2017 at 09:03 PM (#5420325)
#315 is fantastic.
   326. The Yankee Clapper Posted: March 20, 2017 at 09:30 PM (#5420333)
This is at best a huge oversell - conservatives (at least ostensibly) don't like the administrative state and reducing deference to regulators is a conservative goal.

Remember, Chevron won its case. Just as there is no requirement that the agency's interpretation be the best, neither need it be the liberal position, nor the one with the most benefits, or the fewest adverse effects. Nor does Chevron require the agency's position to be consistent with how similar statutes have been interpreted, or even what the agency's position may have been for decades. Now Chevron only applies when the statute is ambiguous, but it wasn't that long ago we had a President who claimed that the definition of "is" was ambiguous. There is something to be said for agency expertise in administrative law, but questioning unlimited Chevron deference seems entirely consistent with limiting the government's ability to depart from settled law.
   327. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 20, 2017 at 09:42 PM (#5420339)
I do think it's a shame that well-qualified nominees attract such fierce opposition, and even filibusters.

As long as that's being applied to both Garland's and Gorsuch's nominations, that's a principled position.

But here's a hypothetical question for anyone of any political persuasion: If somehow the entire Supreme Court were to be killed in a plane crash,** and you had a partisan president in the White House with his party in control of the Senate, and if you were in the opposition party, just how many eminently qualified nominees of the president's ideological persuasion would you feel justified in opposing? None of them? Four of them? Five of them? None of them? And why?

If you're a Republican, would you feel justified in trying to block one, five, or nine Ruth Bader Ginsbergs or Elena Kagans? And if you're a Democrat, would you feel justified in trying to block one, four, five, or nine Anton Scalias or John Roberts?

** Yes, I know the chances that the entire Supreme Court would ever all be on a plane at the same time is zero, so let's make it a gas leak that blew up the entire Supreme Court building while the Court was in session.
   328. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 20, 2017 at 09:51 PM (#5420341)
Reuters: Tillerson plans to skip NATO meeting, visit Russia in April:
U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson plans to skip an April 5-6 meeting of NATO foreign ministers for a U.S. visit by the Chinese president and will travel to Russia later in the month, U.S. officials said on Monday, a step allies may see as putting Moscow's concerns ahead of theirs.

Tillerson intends to miss what would be his first meeting in Brussels with the 28 NATO members to attend President Donald Trump's expected April 6-7 talks with Chinese President Xi Jinping at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, four current and former U.S. officials said.

The decisions to skip the NATO meeting and to visit Moscow risked feeding a perception that Trump may be putting U.S. dealings with big powers before those of smaller nations that depend on Washington for their security, said two former U.S. officials.
   329. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 20, 2017 at 09:53 PM (#5420342)
#315 is fantastic.

I'd pay a hundred bucks to witness a series of questions like that, along with Trump's ensuing tweets.
   330. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 20, 2017 at 09:54 PM (#5420343)
it wasn't that long ago we had a President who claimed that the definition of "is" was ambiguous


We should have taken him seriously, but not literally.
   331. Brian C Posted: March 20, 2017 at 09:57 PM (#5420344)
I do think it's a shame that well-qualified nominees attract such fierce opposition, and even filibusters.

I agree with this in a vacuum. But in the actual world, Gorsuch was nominated because of his ideology, and because he's expected by a GOP President who chose him and a GOP Senate that will confirm him to bring a certain ideology to the Court. There is no disputing this, is there?

So opposing him on the basis of ideology is 100% fair game. All this talk about being "well-qualified" doesn't have anything to do with anything.
   332. The Yankee Clapper Posted: March 20, 2017 at 11:35 PM (#5420375)
So opposing him on the basis of ideology is 100% fair game. All this talk about being "well-qualified" doesn't have anything to do with anything.

Gorsuch has been in the majority for something like 99% of his cases, is seldom reversed, and is supported by colleagues across the political spectrum. He is no more ideological than Kagan, Sotomayor, Breyer, or Ginsburg, so how is that a basis for principled opposition?
   333. Jay Z Posted: March 21, 2017 at 12:11 AM (#5420388)
Gorsuch has been in the majority for something like 99% of his cases, is seldom reversed, and is supported by colleagues across the political spectrum. He is no more ideological than Kagan, Sotomayor, Breyer, or Ginsburg, so how is that a basis for principled opposition?


One could posit that an American electorate that elected Donald J. Trump doesn't care about principled anything.
   334. Count Posted: March 21, 2017 at 12:20 AM (#5420390)
infuriating to keep seeing these gorsuch posts - almost like there's a guilty conscience
   335. Count Posted: March 21, 2017 at 12:31 AM (#5420392)
New measure: banning laptops from carry-on in flights originating from several airports in muslim countries. Unclear whether this was prompted by intelligence or just animus towards muslims (or a combination, as suggested by a "former official" in the article below). As always, skepticism is warranted with this administration.

Buzzfeed


The US is barring passengers from bringing laptops, tablet computers, and other electronic devices as carry-on items on non-stop flights from 10 airports in the Middle East and North Africa.
The ban was revealed Monday after two Middle Eastern airlines began telling passengers about the new restrictions. A representative of Saudi Arabian Airlines, based at JFK International Airport in New York, told BuzzFeed News that the ban begins immediately, and covers all electronic devices, excluding cell phones. The airline said the ban applies on flights headed to the US.

The representative declined to answer further questions and said inquiries should be directed to the Transportation Security Administration.

The ban will hit every major air travel hub in the Middle East, including the home airports of global airline industry giants like Emirates, Etihad, Qatar Airways and Turkish Airlines. A US official told the Associated Press that the ban covers all direct flights to to the US from Cairo, Egypt; Amman, Jordan; Kuwait City, Kuwait; Casablanca, Morocco; Doha, Qatar; Riyadh and Jeddah in Saudi Arabia; Istanbul, Turkey; and Abu Dhabi and Dubai in the United Arab Emirates.

All these countries are US allies, many of them crucial ones: Turkey is a NATO member, Egypt is the second-largest recipient of American military aid and Qatar hosts the forward operating headquarters of the US Central Command. Dubai’s airport is the world’s busiest for international passenger traffic, while Abu Dhabi’s is so trusted that US customs and immigration checks are conducted there.
Details of the ban will be announced on Tuesday, NBC News reported, saying such changes to security rules “are made periodically in response to threat intelligence, and laptop computers have long been the source of concern.”

The devices banned from the cabin will need to be packed in checked baggage. Former officials said the use of certain electronic devices in the flight cabin has presented a longstanding threat, but some questioned why action is being taken now.

“If this is true, the threat of attempts to disguise explosives within laptops and other large electronic devices carried through the last point of departure airports bound for the United States is not new. What appears to be new is this latest overreaction,” a former administration official familiar with aviation security procedures told BuzzFeed News. “It appears to be a Muslim ban by a thousand cuts.”
For as many as two years, US officials have trained airport security personnel across the Middle East on how to search for explosives, the former official said.

“It’s an unnecessary piece of overreach that is a kind of punishment meted out to a group rather than a targeted application of reasonable security measures,” the person said.
   336. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 21, 2017 at 12:35 AM (#5420393)
Entertaining to watch some posters' prolonged shock and complete bafflement over this Supreme Court opposition-- how, HOW I ask you, and WHY, do the Democrats bring themselves to say such vexatious things?

It's like watching parents laying on an unbroken fake emotional response at Disneyworld, in order to convince their kid that they're truly meeting the real Ariel the Mermaid, and the real Buzz Lightyear, and the real Eeyore, Genie, Mickey, Pluto, and Elastigirl. Except this time there's no kid.
   337. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 12:36 AM (#5420394)
(For those not in the know (and to oversimplify a bit): Chevron deference refers to the implementation of laws by the administrative state. When Congress passes a law, it implicitly or explicitly delegates to executive branch agencies the job of drafting regulations to enforce those laws. Obviously, there will be disputes about whether any particular regulation faithfully implements the law. Chevron deference requires a court to uphold a regulation if it is a reasonable interpretation of the statute, then the regulation stands. Without Chevron, the court would ask what the best interpretation of the statute is. So Gorsuch's anti-Chevron position basically shifts power from the executive to the judicial branch.)


I thought Phillip Hamburger's 2015 book Is Administrative Law Unlawful (which I'm still getting through the tail end) is exceptional at framing the matter. It is not an easy read. Great history provided on not only U.S. Constitutional Law, but also how the English have handled the matter. Professor Philip Hamburger argued that judicial deference to administrative interpretation violates judges’ constitutional duty to independently decide cases. I see he had an oped in the NYT this week.
   338. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 12:37 AM (#5420395)
New measure: banning laptops from carry-on in flights originating from several airports in muslim countries. Unclear whether this was prompted by intelligence or just animus towards muslims (or a combination, as suggested by a "former official" in the article below). As always, skepticism is warranted with this administration.


I recently flew home from Roatan, Honduras, and while there were no electronics restrictions, we were not allowed to carry on any liquids over 4 oz, including those purchased after security. No duty free booze, not even bottles of water. There were spot searches as we boarded, including one of my 14 YO daughter.
   339. madvillain Posted: March 21, 2017 at 12:58 AM (#5420398)
Uh, 338, welcome to the aughts?

@336 -- you scoff at the the pageantry, but it matters. It's decent, for starters.
   340. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 01:04 AM (#5420399)
Uh, 338, welcome to the aughts?


I know about no liquids to be brought through security. I was unaware of a new restriction that you can't bring anything onboard purchased after security. This was my first international flight in a few years. Is this now the norm?
   341. Kiko Sakata Posted: March 21, 2017 at 01:05 AM (#5420400)
Uh, 338, welcome to the aughts?


The restriction (since 2005?) had been on bringing liquids through security, but you could then buy water (or scotch or rum or whatever, depending on where you were) once through security and bring it on the plane.

EDIT: Coke to Misirlou (as long as he's not flying). I flew to and from Jamaica around the first of the year and I'm 95% sure we brought water on the plane.
   342. Satan Says Posted: March 21, 2017 at 01:08 AM (#5420402)

This ain't rocket science. How often has it come out that an adversarial global power like Russia has been found to insert itself into an election like the concerted intellectual community says it did. And that insertion was apparently one-sided. An investigation is at least warranted.


Can we investigate the number and nature of US intervention in foreign elections, including Russia's? Not to dispute Greg's earlier point, but are we positing Putin as global mastermind vs. incompetent, ineffectual Western technocrats?
   343. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 01:22 AM (#5420405)
Anne Frank Center Blasts Tim Allen for ‘Deeply Offensive’ Nazi Germany Comment: ‘Have You Lost Your Mind?’

The Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect demanded an apology from actor Tim Allen after he compared life for Hollywood conservatives to living in "'30s Germany."

...The Anne Frank Center called Allen's comparison "deeply offensive" and said it "trivializes the horrors imposed on Jews in Nazi Germany."

The "Last Man Standing actor said on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" on Friday: "You gotta be real careful around here, you know. You'll get beat up if you don't believe what everybody believes. It's like '30s Germany."

"Tim, have you lost your mind?" said Steven Goldstein, executive director of the Anne Frank Center. "No one in Hollywood today is subjecting you or anyone else to what the Nazis imposed on Jews in the 1930s - the world's most evil program of dehumanization, imprisonment and mass brutality, implemented by an entire national government, as the prelude for the genocide of nearly an entire people."

Added Goldstein: "Sorry, Tim, that's just not the same as getting turned down for a movie role. It's time for you to leave your bubble to apologize to the Jewish people and, to be sure, the other peoples also targeted by the Nazis."

On "Jimmy Kimmel Live" Friday, Allen told Kimmel that being a Republican in Hollywood today is "like 1930s Germany. You gotta be real careful around here, you know. You'll get beat up if you don't believe what everybody believes."


Ummm, did the executive director of the Anne Frank Center forget that the left and the elitist right have been comparing life under Trump to living in 1930s Germany for almost two years now? What was Goldstein's comment about that, if any?
   344. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 01:24 AM (#5420406)
Ummm, did the executive director of the Anne Frank Center forget that the left and the elitist right have been comparing life under Trump to living in 1930s Germany for almost two years now? What was Goldstein's comment about that, if any?


I know the Trump presidency seems like it's 2 years old, but really, it's only 2 months.
   345. Hot Wheeling American Posted: March 21, 2017 at 04:03 AM (#5420415)
Today we are all Tim Allen. *Home Improvement grunt through tears*
   346. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 05:03 AM (#5420417)
I heard everyone said Trump was literally Hitler. LITERALLY HITLER.
   347. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 05:19 AM (#5420418)
McCarthyist censorship of the media!

Fox News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano is being kept off the air indefinitely amid the controversy over his unverified claims that British intelligence wiretapped Trump Tower at the behest of former President Obama.
   348. Sebastian Posted: March 21, 2017 at 06:24 AM (#5420421)
Tim Allen is not the first conservative performer, who has expressed that basic sentiment, but he might have chosen his words a bit more carefully. I assume that he was thinking about things like having to join the NSDAP in order to have a career and not the prosecution of Jews and other groups. He should have known that the latter is the first thing people think of, however.

It’s hard to know how much conservative entertainers are hurt by expressing their views, but even if it’s a lot, that’s a point that could be expressed quite clearly without drawing historical parallels. Still, that man was in Galaxy Quest. That buys a lot of goodwill.
   349. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 06:55 AM (#5420422)
Agreed, he's one of my favorite crackheads. Him and Flava Flav.
   350. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 21, 2017 at 07:05 AM (#5420424)
Ummm, did the executive director of the Anne Frank Center forget that the left and the elitist right have been comparing life under Trump to living in 1930s Germany for almost two years now?

"Are we living in Nazi Germany?"

--- Donald Trump, January 11, 2017


So is Trump a member of the Left, or is he now on the Elitist Right?

As for Tim Allen, his words speak for themselves. Let the market decide his future in show business.

And as for that carryon ban on electronic devices, I only wish they'd make it universal. Let passengers entertain themselves with a book. They managed to do that for about the first 100 years of air travel, and it won't kill them to do it today, no matter what country they're flying from.

   351. Lassus Posted: March 21, 2017 at 07:06 AM (#5420425)
...the left and the elitist right have been comparing life under Trump to living in 1930s Germany for almost two years now?

A concern that it COULD EVENTUALLY BE does not equal concern that it ACTUALLY IS.

But other people. It's other people responsible for fake news. Other people. Always the other people.
   352. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 07:10 AM (#5420426)
A concern that it COULD EVENTUALLY BE does not equal concern that it ACTUALLY IS.

There's zero chance it could ever be anything close to Nazi Germany. Such "concerns" are loony tunes.
   353. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: March 21, 2017 at 08:17 AM (#5420427)
There's zero chance it could ever be anything close to Nazi Germany. Such "concerns" are loony tunes.


Except when such concerns come from the man upon whose greased pole you so expertly dance...
   354. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 08:27 AM (#5420429)
Except when such concerns come from the man upon whose greased pole you so expertly dance...


And hey don't forget the DECLINE!

Though I wonder, since Trump was elected we have heard ever so much less of the evil decline. Perhaps certain parties no longer believe the decline is happening. Might it be connected to the fact the White House doesn't have a democrat in it? Had Hillary won it would be non-stop Decline talk I bet.
   355. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 08:42 AM (#5420433)
Rubio BOMBSHELL!

MARCO: I would just ask everybody this: Can this country afford to have a president under investigation by the FBI?
AUDIENCE: No!
RUBIO: Think of the trauma that this would do to this country.


Conway feels the heat - ready to jump ship?

Most honest people I know are not under FBI investigation
   356. Lassus Posted: March 21, 2017 at 08:46 AM (#5420434)
Maybe Trump will twitter rant demanding a new trial for War Machine.
   357. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 21, 2017 at 08:47 AM (#5420435)
the left and the elitist right have been comparing life under Trump to living in 1930s Germany for almost two years now?


I know it feels like a long time, but it's only been two months since Trump took office as President. ;)
   358. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 08:49 AM (#5420436)
Maybe Trump will twitter rant demanding a new trial for War Machine.


Poor guy in jail for grabbing professional sex worker by #####. Sad!
   359. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 08:54 AM (#5420438)
Assumes facts not in evidence - President Trump faces his hardest truth: He was wrong

It is an article full of fun bits. My favorite?

Brinkley, who has published biographies of such presidents as Gerald Ford, Franklin Roosevelt and Theodore Roosevelt, said of Trump’s start, “This is the most failed first 100 days of any president.”

“To be as low as he is in the polls, in the 30s, while the FBI director is on television saying they launched an investigation into your ties with Russia, I don’t know how it can get much worse,” Brinkley said.


And there are many other bits. Personally I blame Obama.

Note: I don't think it the worst 100 days. William Henry Harrison, for example, had a worse start to his presidency.
   360. BrianBrianson Posted: March 21, 2017 at 08:56 AM (#5420439)
There's zero chance it could ever be anything close to Nazi Germany. Such "concerns" are loony tunes.


I know! The guy's idol is a former KGB agent trying to restore the Soviet Union to her glory days. We should be far more concerned about it turning into Stalinist Russia.
   361. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 08:56 AM (#5420440)
And as for that carryon ban on electronic devices, I only wish they'd make it universal. Let passengers entertain themselves with a book. They managed to do that for about the first 100 years of air travel, and it won't kill them to do it today, no matter what country they're flying from.
I read books on my iPad.
   362. Brian C Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:25 AM (#5420444)
Gorsuch has been in the majority for something like 99% of his cases, is seldom reversed, and is supported by colleagues across the political spectrum. He is no more ideological than Kagan, Sotomayor, Breyer, or Ginsburg, so how is that a basis for principled opposition?

Dude, do you get paid by the talking point or what? At least with Ray, I know that I'm talking to a guy with opinions. But with you, I always feel like I'm talking to a paid operative.
   363. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:29 AM (#5420445)
362: Nevertheless, the point that nobody ever characterized Gorsuch as a CrazyRightWingExtremist until he was nominated is well-taken.
   364. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:39 AM (#5420450)
Though I wonder, since Trump was elected we have heard ever so much less of the evil decline.

No we haven't, and Trump is a symbol of The Decline.

No one sane could sit here today on March 21, 2017 and conclude that American civilization is at its zenith. That's rubber room material.
   365. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:39 AM (#5420451)
And as for that carryon ban on electronic devices, I only wish they'd make it universal. Let passengers entertain themselves with a book. They managed to do that for about the first 100 years of air travel, and it won't kill them to do it today, no matter what country they're flying from.

I read books on my iPad.


Fine, so let's make a deal: You get to carry on your device, and those traveling from those 10 airports on Trump's newest scare list get to carry on theirs.
   366. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:42 AM (#5420453)
“To be as low as he is in the polls, in the 30s, while the FBI director is on television saying they launched an investigation into your ties with Russia, I don’t know how it can get much worse,”

The FBI director didn't say that, and the fact of the investigation was reported months ago by at least two mainstream media outlets.
   367. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:43 AM (#5420454)
Uh, Andy, you realize I don't work for TSA, right? I can't really make any deals on their behalf.
   368. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:51 AM (#5420457)
No one sane could sit here today on March 21, 2017 and conclude that American civilization is at its zenith. That's rubber room material.


You have to love the entire idea of "American Civilization", as if the rest of the world is insignificant, and in fact not really civilized at all. Normal people realize there is not American civilization, or German Civilization, Chinese Civilization or what have you, but rather here in the 21st century there is just civilization. One global civilization.

Is America at it strongest point in this global civilization? Well, do you mean in absolute terms or relative terms? And how are we judging matters? Is it military, economic, cultural or what have you? And who gets to judge? And of course you can't look at a single day, this is something educated people look at over time, taking into account trends and they don't obsess over every bump.

However, before we get to all that complex (for SBB) stuff, we have the simple notion that as SBB has posited things American Civilization (sic) must be either at a zenith or in decline, which is very in keeping with his world view, but not at all how a healthy person views the world. Is every team that didn't win the World Series in decline? And ... wait a minute ... what if that team won before and this latest win was less impressive? Why then they must be in decline, since they can't be at their zenith.

Like I said, putting it that way, making it a false dichotomy, is clearly and obviously ridiculous.
   369. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:53 AM (#5420459)
The FBI director didn't say that, and the fact of the investigation was reported months ago by at least two mainstream media outlets.


Comey's actual statement:

"I've been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI as part of our counterintelligence mission is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. That includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia's efforts."


I will now leave you to your parsing...
   370. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:54 AM (#5420460)
Normal people realize there is not American civilization, or German Civilization, Chinese Civilization or what have you, but rather here in the 21st century there is just civilization. One global civilization.

LOL. OK, then.
   371. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:55 AM (#5420462)
I will now leave you to your parsing...

It's easy. The investigation is focused -- such as it is -- on "individuals associated with the Trump campaign." Not Trump.

But, again, we've known that for months. Comey broke no news. He also called it a counterintelligence investigation, not a criminal one. We've also known that for months, which is part of what makes the timing of the investigation suspicious.
   372. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5420464)
It's easy. The investigation is focused -- such as it is -- on "individuals associated with the Trump campaign." Not Trump.


Is Trump associated with the Trump campaign?
   373. BrianBrianson Posted: March 21, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5420465)
This may come as a shock to someone as fact-disinterested as SBB, but Trump was, in fact, an individual associated the Trump campaign.
   374. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:00 AM (#5420466)
It's easy. The investigation is focused -- such as it is -- on "individuals associated with the Trump campaign." Not Trump.


Oh right... just that volunteer coffee fetcher who was given the largely honorary title of Campaign Chairman... and that other guy who handed out lawn signs in exchange for a brief two-week tour of the White House and Situation Room...
   375. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:01 AM (#5420467)
This may come as a shock to someone as fact-disinterested as SBB, but Trump was, in fact, an individual associated the Trump campaign.


Nope.

Just another nobody volunteer.

Spicy says so.
   376. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:02 AM (#5420469)
Uh, Andy, you realize I don't work for TSA, right? I can't really make any deals on their behalf.

Don't be so modest, David. We know (((you guys))) rule the world.
   377. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:04 AM (#5420471)
Is Trump associated with the Trump campaign?

No. Normal people don't speak that way. And the "links" have been under investigation for months and three sources -- Clapper, NYT, New Yorker -- have all reported that no evidence was found to support them.

Any day now, though, the right questions will finally be asked and it will all unravel. Any day now. The right questions. Finally. Any day now.
   378. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:05 AM (#5420472)
Just another nobody volunteer.


It is kind of amazing how Manafort and Flynn were branded as such, when they were clearly significant players in the campaign. Meanwhile, in an alternate universe where Hillary won, SBB is desperately still trying to link the various Podesta relatives and the consulting group in order to "prove" the linkage between Hillary and the Russians, and that evidence alone is enough to disqualify her and her administration.
   379. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:07 AM (#5420473)
Is Trump associated with the Trump campaign?

No. Normal people don't speak that way.


Wait, what? Not even you believe that.
   380. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:08 AM (#5420474)
Wait, what? Not even you believe that.

Keep hope alive!
   381. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:09 AM (#5420475)
Is Trump associated with the Trump campaign?

No.


Is he associated with anybody's campaign?

Normal people don't speak that way.


Nobody in their right mind would appoint you an arbiter of what normal people do.

Any day now, though, the right questions will finally be asked and it will all unravel.


That's when Obama will admit he wiretapped Trump Tower at the behest of the Queen of England.
   382. Greg K Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:12 AM (#5420477)
You have to love the entire idea of "American Civilization", as if the rest of the world is insignificant, and in fact not really civilized at all. Normal people realize there is not American civilization, or German Civilization, Chinese Civilization or what have you, but rather here in the 21st century there is just civilization. One global civilization.

I don't think you have to go full Huntington, but to categorize the US and China as belonging to the same civilization might be using the word a bit too broadly for it to be useful. You might be on more solid ground to argue (as I believe you have previously) that US relative power in the world has declined, but that has more to do with global development catching up rather than absolute decline.

"Global Civilization" might eventually come about (and it may or may not be something to root for), but at the moment I'd say it's far more aspirational than descriptive.
   383. Brian C Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:16 AM (#5420482)
Nevertheless, the point that nobody ever characterized Gorsuch as a CrazyRightWingExtremist until he was nominated is well-taken.

Even if true, so what? Don't play dumb, it doesn't suit you like it does most of the others here.

The point remains that no one is pretending that he's anything other than a very conservative judge, and that this is precisely why his supporters are supporting him. If it was all about being "well-qualified" then the GOP would have never had a problem with Obama nominating Garland.
   384. Greg K Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5420486)
Can we investigate the number and nature of US intervention in foreign elections, including Russia's? Not to dispute Greg's earlier point, but are we positing Putin as global mastermind vs. incompetent, ineffectual Western technocrats?

To me it's a bit like how nations spy on each other (even friends and allies). It happens, but that's no reason to just shrug about it. It wouldn't surprise me if the US has been taking covert action to support and aid opposition to Putin...and if Putin was able to present evidence to the Russian people of that it would be a great way to discredit that opposition. People generally don't like foreign nations sticking their fingers in their pie.
   385. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:23 AM (#5420489)
Nobody in their right mind would appoint you an arbiter of what normal people do.

If you want to keep pretending, no one can stop you. Even wrapping my stretch cord around your neck and pulling the handles hard couldn't stop you. You're like the Superman of pretending. Though Kryptonite probably couldn't stop you either.
   386. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:26 AM (#5420492)
I don't think you have to go full Huntington, but to categorize the US and China as belonging to the same civilization might be using the word a bit too broadly for it to be useful.


I disagree completely. The US and China are extremely integrated (not the same, but with many many touch points) culturally, politically, and of course economically. If China were to collapse it would have a massive impact on the US, not just from secondary effects, but a direct and massive impact.

I don't see any way one could argue that they are distinct civilizations, as intertwined and dependent on each other as they are. Now typically a civilization is defined to a large degree by its geography, but that is the point of our current global political-economy. Our local geography is at this point the vast majority of the world.

Asked a different way where does "Chinese Civilization" begin and "US Civilization end"? Or perhaps better asked where does US civilization end and Canadian Civilization Begin? Well I don't think you can separate them. Now where does US/Canadian civilization begin and European civilization end? And on and on.

The entire world is bound together, through culture, communication, laws, politics, trade in a way that makes it impossible to pretend there exists an "American Civilization" separate from Canada, Mexico, China, the UK and so on. I would argue that the US and China are in many ways more integrated that the far flung parts of the Roman Empire or the Mongol Empire were. But I bet we all agree that the Roman Empire was a civilization, right?

   387. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:33 AM (#5420496)
Is Trump associated with the Trump campaign?


No.


Is he associated with anybody's campaign?


One imagines given the prior relationships and donation history, SBB thinks Trump is "more associated" with the Clinton Campaign than with his own Campaign. I wonder who SBB thinks sat at the top of the organization structure of the Trump Campaign.
   388. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:33 AM (#5420497)
I don't see any way one could argue that they are distinct civilizations, as intertwined and dependent on each other as they are.

Are you nuts or something? American and Chinese civilizations and cultures aren't distinct?

A lot of things are now becoming clear.
   389. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5420498)
One imagines given the prior relationships and donation history, SBB thinks Trump is "more associated" with the Clinton Campaign than with his own Campaign. I wonder who SBB thinks sat at the top of the organization structure of the Trump Campaign.

Keep hope alive!
   390. Lassus Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5420500)
Keep hope alive!

Of you making sense? That hope's long dead.
   391. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5420506)
Normal people don't speak that way.


Normal people also don't loan money to themselves, but it's very common to hear the phrase "Candidate X has loaned $Y to candidate X's campaign." Most people don't run for office, but for those that do, it's very common to distinguish between the person and the campaign.

And I just now realize that I'm responding to SBB's idiocy. Oh well, I'll let it stand.
   392. Brian C Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:38 AM (#5420507)
Are you nuts or something? American and Chinese civilizations and cultures aren't distinct?

Hey SBB, would you please state - in your own words - how you would differentiate between "civilization" and "culture"?
   393. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5420508)
Of you making sense?

That Trump is under investigation and will be finally asked the right questions and everything will unravel. It's only a matter of time, so keep hope alive!!
   394. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5420509)
Hey SBB, would you please state - in your own words - how you would differentiate between "civilization" and "culture"?

No, I would not. The idea that Chinese and American civilizations are the same is loony tunes and not worth interacting with anymore.

Kind of a common theme here: If people want to pretend things, it's pretty hard to stop them from pretending. So pretend away.
   395. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5420511)
Are you nuts or something? American and Chinese civilizations and cultures aren't distinct?


Nice addition. A single civilization can have multiple cultures. So yes Chinese and American cultures are distinct. The cultures of England and Palestine during the Roman Empire were also distinct, and yet at the time both were part of the same Roman civilization.

See how that works? Culture <> Civilization.
   396. Brian C Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5420514)
No, I would not.

Didn't think so.
   397. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:47 AM (#5420518)
So yes Chinese and American cultures are distinct.

And sitting here on March 21, 2017 and arguing that American culture is at its zenith is also loony tunes, rubber room material.

So either path in your bizarre and pedantic maze takes you eventually to the rubber room.
   398. Ray (RDP) Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:49 AM (#5420519)
Dude, do you get paid by the talking point or what? At least with Ray, I know that I'm talking to a guy with opinions. But with you, I always feel like I'm talking to a paid operative.


Indeed my approach to Trump has been pretty much consistent throughout the election and then the aftermath. As with the approach of the vast majority here -- Andy, Sam, David, the two Zs, yourself, Misirlou, Snapper, TGF, SBB, etc.

The two posters who went from lambasting Trump to treating him with kid gloves are YC and Jason. We can all do the math on that one. But yes, YC is here to basically toe the party line -- which is not to say that his comments are off base or that he makes poor arguments or is lacking in facts. But yes you know with him that you'll get staunch advocacy for the Republican Party. But, then, that's no different from most here on the left w/r/t the Democratic Party.

The people who do NOT reliably follow one party's line are basically the libertarians here. So some of those chirping about YC doing so should look in the mirror; they're no different on the flip side.
   399. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:51 AM (#5420520)
And sitting here on March 21, 2017 and arguing that American culture is at its zenith is also loony tunes, rubber room material.


Well seeing as how you are inventing things, talking points I have already long since addressed, and ignoring where the conversation has gone AND you have weaseled out of answering simple questions it is clear I will just have to accept this as your version of a concession and move on.

If you want to rationally discuss the concepts behind your blather just let the rest of us know.
   400. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: March 21, 2017 at 10:53 AM (#5420521)
If you want to rationally discuss the concepts behind your blather just let the rest of us know.

I've discussed them at long length previously -- and quite rationally. The archives are easily searchable.

We're in Decline. This is what Decline looks like.

It's beyond bizarre that people who come on the board and talk about the president being a "fascist," and Nazi Germany like conditions possibly pertaining in the near future would claim that we haven't declined.
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