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Monday, November 20, 2017

OTP 20 November 2017: Sheriff’s official suspended 10 days over Cubs World Series sneak-in

A high-ranking official in Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart’s office had to pay a price for allowing others to avoid having to pay the price of admission last year to a Cubs World Series game at Wrigley Field, newly obtained records show.

Mike Anton, a deputy chief with the sheriff’s police who makes about $120,000 a year, was suspended for 10 days for giving security IDs to two people so they could get in to a 2016 Cubs World Series game, the records show.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 20, 2017 at 08:01 AM | 1172 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off-topic, politics, world series

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   101. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 20, 2017 at 10:49 PM (#5579194)
In 1990 he only evinces a superficial understanding of Duke's appeal, and for chrissakes it was 25 years ago.


"Pat Buchanan—who really has many of the same theories, except it's in a better package"

How can he know that pat Buchanan has many of the same theories as duke without knowing what his theories are? How can know that Buchanan comes in a better package without being aware of duke's shortcomings? I mean, he can. Trump is the ultimate bullshitter, but the quoted passage wasn't bullshit. It was pretty close to spot on. So in 1990 Trump displays awareness of Duke's theories and shortcomings, but in 2016 he doesn't know anything about David Duke.
   102. PreservedFish Posted: November 20, 2017 at 10:49 PM (#5579195)
but that he really doesn't know anything about David Duke, which is preposterous on its face after all the number of times Duke has been in the news over the past 25+ years.


Come on. You're taking him too literally. Again.
   103. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 20, 2017 at 10:51 PM (#5579197)
Again, there's no gotcha. In 1990 he only evinces a superficial understanding of Duke's appeal, and for chrissakes it was 25 years ago.

Well, his understanding of Duke appeal was so "superficial" that he practically used Duke's campaign as a playbook in his own run for the presidency,** and has been using thinly veiled racist rhetoric ever since he entered public life. You'd have to be born yesterday to think Donald Trump didn't really know anything about David Duke.

** No, not word for word, but the common underlying theme of white victimization came through loud and clear, as that Atlantic article demonstrates all too well. It's been a recurring theme throughout our history.
   104. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 20, 2017 at 10:52 PM (#5579198)

re: #56, I'd already seen this story but have been confused how "trafficking" enters into it.
Religious right and feminist zealots have relabeled ordinary prostitution as "sex trafficking" to get support for their crusade. Actual sex trafficking, as those terms would be used in their ordinary meaning, essentially does not exist in the U.S. But if you call every single incident of prostitution involving someone under the age of 18 as "trafficking" -- not to mention many instances of adult prostitution -- you can promote your cause better.
   105. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 20, 2017 at 10:52 PM (#5579199)
You're taking him too literally. Again.


So, you think he DID know about David Duke, and was dissembling to get out of having to answer tough questions? That's the entire point.
   106. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 20, 2017 at 10:54 PM (#5579200)
but that he really doesn't know anything about David Duke, which is preposterous on its face after all the number of times Duke has been in the news over the past 25+ years.

Come on. You're taking him too literally. Again.


What does that even mean? That Trump maybe knows who David Duke is, but that he doesn't really know much about him? How in the hell can you know who David Duke is without knowing what David Duke is all about?
   107. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: November 20, 2017 at 11:13 PM (#5579204)
Uh, he was long since parted from his money by smarter, more capable businessmen. Four times.

No, this grotesquely misinterprets how corporate bankruptcies work and how Trump has used the law to his advantage. Trump may or may not be a billionaire, but that ####### carnie barker is rich beyond all of our dreams. Trump's ability to structure his empire so he can get his hands on other people's money without taking any personal financial risks -- he ended up taking massive reputation hits obviously -- is the kind of stuff they should be teaching on the first day of contract law. But here we are.
   108. Lassus Posted: November 20, 2017 at 11:29 PM (#5579207)
I used to go 85 in my mom's Renault, and I've been up to 95 in a Camaro, but both of those were 30 years ago. Can't really see the point now.
   109. Shredder Posted: November 20, 2017 at 11:43 PM (#5579209)
Isn't that prairie where you can see oncoming vehicles for miles?
Regarding the Prairie Provinces, the late Pat Burns was once quoted saying Winnipeg was the only city in North America where you can watch your dog run away for three days.
   110. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: November 20, 2017 at 11:55 PM (#5579211)
[101] And then in 2016 he basically copied Pat Buchanan's platform from when he was the 2000 nominee for the Reform Party, even down to the "America First" slogan.
   111. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 20, 2017 at 11:58 PM (#5579212)
When Donald Trump is contradicting a soldier's widow, he says his version of their phone call is correct because he has "one of the greatest memories of all time."

When Trump is insisting he absolutely saw televised images of rooftop Muslims celebrating the collapse of the Twin Towers, he says it happened because "I have the world's greatest memory. It's one thing everyone agrees on."

When Trump is asked about David Duke, or George Papadoupolis, or which foot had the crippling bone spur that kept him from Vietnam... answer hazy, evade again later.
   112. Shredder Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:47 AM (#5579219)
When Trump is asked about David Duke, or George Papadoupolis, or which foot had the crippling bone spur that kept him from Vietnam... answer hazy, evade again later.
I don't mean to throw you for a loop or anything, but I'm of the opinion that the pussygrabber in chief has what some may call a tenuous relationship with the truth.
   113. Omineca Greg Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:53 AM (#5579220)
Regarding the Prairie Provinces...

The Prairies have such a bad reputation here in BC. My son's friend genuinely thought that Jon Bon Jovi was singing, "Living On A Prairie." It was my son that had to tell him the awful news that he was misinterpreting the lyrics. None of us even laughed at him, because we all agreed the song would be much better his way (which is a sad truth about Bon Jovi lyrics, random words strung together are better than most of the stuff he writes). My son did give him the gears about the Madonna song...you know the one...

Life is a mystery
Everyone must stand alone
I hear you call my name
And it feels like Moose Jaw

When you call my name, it's like a Little Prairie
I'm going to plow your soil, sweet like a skunkbush berry
When we're in Flin Flon you're gonna feel my brawn
Just like a Prairie...we're going to Fort Garry

I hear your voice
It's like a hawk owl calling
It won't be long, I hear your song
Feels like flying

When you call my name, it's like a Little Prairie
I'm going to reap your rye, and the chaff I'll bury
We'll voyage to Regina...

THAT'S ENOUGH!

Gee, Dad. You're such a square.

It's enough, OK. It's enough. Just stop it.
   114. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 21, 2017 at 01:02 AM (#5579222)
#112, replying to #111:
I don't mean to throw you for a loop or anything, but I'm of the opinion that the pussygrabber in chief has what some may call a tenuous relationship with the truth.


If those fish didn't want to get shot, they should have brought some guns into the barrel.
   115. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: November 21, 2017 at 01:06 AM (#5579224)
The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good fish with a gun.
   116. Chicago Joe Posted: November 21, 2017 at 01:16 AM (#5579225)
Actual sex trafficking, as those terms would be used in their ordinary meaning, essentially does not exist in the U.S.



This is incredibly untrue. At least a third of the folks in the profession in Chicago are imported for that explicit purpose.
   117. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 03:55 AM (#5579229)
CoB, slow the #### down. Your 96 civic should never have seen 90 mph.


Why not ... it was rock ####### solid at 90.

You do know Honda made more than one version of the Civic that year, right?

They weren't *all* base DX shitboxes on 14 inch tires ...
   118. Lassus Posted: November 21, 2017 at 06:21 AM (#5579232)
Actual sex trafficking, as those terms would be used in their ordinary meaning, essentially does not exist in the U.S.
This is incredibly untrue.


Don't make David go all real estate expert on you.
   119. Morty Causa Posted: November 21, 2017 at 06:50 AM (#5579234)
96:

Carter a "raging anti-semite"? Not to start anything, but just as a matter of curiosity, what specifically makes you think this?
   120. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 06:58 AM (#5579235)
I think he's continued to claim that Jews use the blood of Christian babies to make their Passover matzoh. Either that or his peanut butter wasn't kosher. I don't have time to do all the research for you.
   121. simon bedford Posted: November 21, 2017 at 06:59 AM (#5579236)
Carter wrote a book about the plight of Palestinians which did not mention the holocaust every other sentence therefore he is according to some, anti Semitic.
   122. Barnaby Jones Posted: November 21, 2017 at 07:30 AM (#5579240)
   123. Morty Causa Posted: November 21, 2017 at 07:47 AM (#5579242)
120:

Well, you should have time to explain your views--or maybe you should keep them to yourself if you don't.
   124. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 07:49 AM (#5579244)
Make me.
   125. Morty Causa Posted: November 21, 2017 at 07:58 AM (#5579245)
Ditto.
   126. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 07:58 AM (#5579246)
When I brought this up just after the hurricane I was told I was being silly. Just speculation I was told. Hmmm, OK. I bet a few hundred thousand potential voters from a heavily Democratic demographic forced to move at least partly because of a GOP President's response to a hurricane ... nope that will never influence anything in a swing state.


Trump won FL by a little over 100,000 votes. How many PRs are needed to overcome that deficeit? If they vote 75-25 D and have a 50% participation rate, it would take ~400,000.


This is from yesterday, but I was busy doing other things last night. Anyway there are other elections than the one that took place in November 2016, including future elections. Everything doesn't HAVE to relate to Trump. A few hundred thousand voters, voters who clearly tilt Democratic and with a bit of a grudge against our current GOP President (warranted or not) can easily influence many election results in a state known for its swing nature. That includes Federal and state (and below), as well as the 2020 Presidential election, where given current polling it is pretty clear that right now Trump would lose a whole bunch of his voters from the last election (though there is still time obviously before he has to run again).

   127. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:00 AM (#5579247)
   128. Morty Causa Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:04 AM (#5579248)
What opinion is that?
   129. Morty Causa Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:06 AM (#5579249)
What exactly are you so upset about, YR?
   130. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:09 AM (#5579251)
I'm sorry, Morty. It's a bummer. In reality, you're as dumb as they come.
   131. Morty Causa Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:11 AM (#5579252)
Trying to have a rational exchange with you is hopeless. Give us another gif.
   132. manchestermets Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:29 AM (#5579255)
Abe, why are you asking YR to explain David's opinion of Jimmy Carter to you?
   133. Morty Causa Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:31 AM (#5579256)
Who's doing that and where?
   134. manchestermets Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:39 AM (#5579258)
You're doing that, Abe, in 123, where you ask YR to explain his views in relation to 96, which was posted by David. HTH!
   135. Morty Causa Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:57 AM (#5579261)
I don't have time to do all the research for you.

This is what I was referencing in my post 123. Not the peanut butter.
   136. Morty Causa Posted: November 21, 2017 at 09:06 AM (#5579266)
I wouldn't expect YR to engage in a serious reasoned exchange wrt politics.
   137. manchestermets Posted: November 21, 2017 at 09:07 AM (#5579267)
But why should he be doing any of the research for you? They weren't, despite your assertion that they were in 123, his views.
   138. zack Posted: November 21, 2017 at 09:25 AM (#5579273)
Having driven 17 a bunch of times, ten years ago the idea of going 119mph on that stretch would be completely insane. They've been slowly upgrading all of 17 to an interstate (86), though, so it's...still insane, but explains the 65mph speed limit. That part of 17 is weaving around following a river valley, we're not talking about pointing the car at the horizon and stepping on the gas.
   139. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 09:56 AM (#5579287)
This is from yesterday, but I was busy doing other things last night. Anyway there are other elections than the one that took place in November 2016, including future elections. Everything doesn't HAVE to relate to Trump. A few hundred thousand voters, voters who clearly tilt Democratic and with a bit of a grudge against our current GOP President (warranted or not) can easily influence many election results in a state known for its swing nature. That includes Federal and state (and below), as well as the 2020 Presidential election, where given current polling it is pretty clear that right now Trump would lose a whole bunch of his voters from the last election (though there is still time obviously before he has to run again).


I wasn't disputing you, just trying to flesh out the actual impact. Sure, it's not helpful to the GOP to have a huge influx of new voters into FL who may bear animus to the GOP President. Just not sure how big an impact it may have. For instance, the article you quoted taked about the huge migration of PRs to Orlando. Well, all the Congressional districts in and around Orland are already blue (7th, 9th, and 10th).
   140. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:06 AM (#5579294)
Just not sure how big an impact it may have.


Yes (and I was grumpy at you, sorry). I think it might matter in the upcoming Governor and Senate races (both currently rated toss up) and in future races. Many recent Florida elections have been so close it feels almost anything might matter.
   141. DJS, the Digital Dandy Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:09 AM (#5579296)
The Prairies have such a bad reputation here in BC. My son's friend genuinely thought that Jon Bon Jovi was singing, "Living On A Prairie." It was my son that had to tell him the awful news that he was misinterpreting the lyrics. None of us even laughed at him, because we all agreed the song would be much better his way (which is a sad truth about Bon Jovi lyrics, random words strung together are better than most of the stuff he writes). My son did give him the gears about the Madonna song...you know the one...


For a year in high school, I worked at a houseware/hardware store. A friend of mine also worked there and once when we were in the office, he tried to sing Copacabana. But he thought the song was called Cocoa Banana. The office people made fun of him for months.
   142. dlf Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:10 AM (#5579297)
Contrary to popular belief, there are actually 2 roads from Key Targo to the mainland. There is US1, the one everyone knows, and there is county road 905, which goes a further 10 or so miles north after US1 splits of into the everglades, towards a posh gated community called Ocean Reef Club at the tip of Key Largo, and then heads into the everglades to the mainland. Where 905 turns towards the mainland, there is a 3 way stop. Ocean Reef is a coupleof miles north of that point.


Hang a left there and go a few miles up Card Sound Road and you'll pass a little shack called Alabama Jacks. Every time I've gone into or out of the Keys, I've stopped there for conch salad and a beer. Sitting out back and watching the water move through the mangroves while sipping a cold one is a particular favorite of mine.
   143. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:12 AM (#5579298)
But he thought the song was called Cocoa Banana.


My mother-in-law thought the song by Europe was "The Fun is Downtown" when she heard my wife listening to it when it first came on the radio.
   144. Swoboda is freedom Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:18 AM (#5579300)
A friend of mine also worked there and once when we were in the office, he tried to sing Copacabana. But he thought the song was called Cocoa Banana. The office people made fun of him for months.

When I was in high school, someone tried out for the musical by singing "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off". The lyrics are
.
You like potato and I like potahto
You like tomato and I like tomahto
Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto.
Let's call the whole thing off etc

She did not get that you were supposed to say the potato and tomato differently. So she did not sing potato, potahto, but potato potato. At first we though it was a joke, but they people starting laughing.
   145. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:24 AM (#5579305)
Charlie Rose’s “CBS This Morning” co-hosts rebuked the veteran TV news anchor for his alleged sexual harassment of at least eight women since the 1990s.

“There is no excuse for this alleged behavior,” a choked-up Norah O’Donnell said in the opening segment of the morning news show. “This will be investigated. This has to end. This behavior is wrong."

Her remarks came after the show ran a regular news segment on the multiple reports that the 75-year-old news man exposed himself and made lewd calls to women who worked for his popular “Charlie Rose” show.

PBS and Bloomberg broadcast the show, but it’s owned by the anchor’s “Charlie Rose, Inc.” Both networks, along with CBS News, suspended Rose.


You folks didn't know what was going on right under your noses? You're in the news business, yes?
   146. Morty Causa Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5579310)
122:

Politico on Carter and the Jews


Well-written article. Our inability to recapture Eden may be an incapacity brought about by the constraints or our nature, making such a state not only unachievable but a phantasm. The following has a bearing on that, on why that has to be so:

The Root of All Cruelty

The thesis that viewing others as objects or animals enables our very worst conduct would seem to explain a great deal. Yet there’s reason to think that it’s almost the opposite of the truth. ****

The Jews who were forced to scrub the streets—not to mention those subjected to far worse degradations—were not thought of as lacking human emotions. Indeed, if the Jews had been thought to be indifferent to their treatment, there would have been nothing to watch here; the crowd had gathered because it wanted to see them suffer. The logic of such brutality is the logic of metaphor: to assert a likeness between two different things holds power only in the light of that difference. The sadism of treating human beings like vermin lies precisely in the recognition that they are not.****

In many instances, violence is neither a cold-blooded solution to a problem nor a failure of inhibition; most of all, it doesn’t entail a blindness to moral considerations. On the contrary, morality is often a motivating force: “People are impelled to violence when they feel that to regulate certain social relationships, imposing suffering or death is necessary, natural, legitimate, desirable, condoned, admired, and ethically gratifying.****

Manne delves into the case of Elliot Rodger, who, in 2014, went on a killing spree, targeting people at random, after he was denied entry to a sorority house at the University of California, Santa Barbara. He slew six people and injured fourteen more before killing himself. In a videotape, Rodger, who was twenty-two, explained that women “gave their affection and sex and love to other men but never to me.” And then, talking to these women, he said, “I will punish you all for it . . . . I’ll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you.”

Manne makes clear that Rodger wasn’t objectifying women; he was simply enraged that their capacity for love and romance didn’t extend to him.****

The limitations of the dehumanization thesis are hardly good news. There has always been something optimistic about the idea that our worst acts of inhumanity are based on confusion. It suggests that we could make the world better simply by having a clearer grasp of reality—by deactivating those brain implants, or their ideological equivalent. The truth may be harder to accept: that our best and our worst tendencies arise precisely from seeing others as human.
   147. The Good Face Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5579315)
I'm curious how much of this is just virtue signaling (hurr, hurr, look how dumb Trump is! amirite or what?) and how much you actually believe it. Because if Trump was half as stupid as you seem to think he is, don't you think he would have long since been parted from his money by smarter, more capable businessmen (or just outright con men)? It's not like he's some kindly, universally beloved figure that nobody could bear to take advantage of...

Uh, he was long since parted from his money by smarter, more capable businessmen. Four times.


And yet, he still has lots of money. Certainly much, much more than, say, you. Also, your comment raises the question, "How could such an idiot be so adept at making money that he has enough to be worth stealing? Four times."

What puzzled me about that comment is how expansive his definition of "virtue signaling" must be if it can be applied to liberals calling Trump a retard.


I'm genuinely curious whether he actually believes what he's saying, or if he's just signaling to his crowd for a cheap "megadittos!" and a tiny dopamine boost from having people agree with him.
   148. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:42 AM (#5579317)
Andy, I'm not seeing the gotcha.

1990: “Whether that be good or bad, David Duke is going to get a lot of votes. Pat Buchanan—who really has many of the same theories, except it's in a better package—Pat Buchanan is going to take a lot of votes away from George Bush"

2016: “Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke. Okay?,”


I'm sorry, were you going to explain the alleged "gotcha" here?
   149. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:43 AM (#5579318)
And yet, he still has lots of money. Certainly much, much more than, say, you.
True. Then again, I have more money than the NPV of what I've inherited, while he has less.
   150. dog poop god Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:44 AM (#5579319)
this is the best long form political science journalism I've read in a long time.

It was highly effective delivering the prop point that Trump=Duke. Thus the followup comments here.

The bigger problem is a reliance on big abstractions and one overarching explanation of Trump's appeal. But even if you accept its truths completely, what is to be done?

What a society finds offensive is not a function of fact, or truth, but of power.


I agree -- politics is a power struggle. Fact and truth matter little, if at all. See it in these threads every day.

Political correctness is a vague term, perhaps best defined by the conservative scholar Samuel Goldman. “What Trump and others seem to mean by political correctness is an extremely dramatic and rapidly changing set of discursive and social laws that, virtually overnight, people are expected to understand, to which they are expected to adhere.”


Laws which arbitrarily have no basis in fact or truth, but in power.

...the question of black rights in America is not mere identity politics—not a peripheral matter, but the central, existential question of the Republic. Nothing is inevitable, people can change. No one is irredeemable. But recognition precedes enlightenment.


Just because bitter clingers are paranoid doesn't mean the state isn't out to get them. Enlightenment is a bad joke without recourse to facts or truth.
   151. Lassus Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:45 AM (#5579321)
Then again, I have more money than the NPV of what I've inherited, while he has less.

It takes money to lose money.
   152. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:46 AM (#5579322)
You folks didn't know what was going on right under your noses? You're in the news business, yes?

Rose produced his own show, which was syndicated. Neither CBS, PBS nor Bloomberg had had any complaints about him from their own employees. The Post story explains this:

The show’s small, informal structure, with roughly 15 employees, and the centrality of Rose’s authority on a program he owns led to uncertainty over how to respond, said the women who felt victimized. “There wasn’t anybody to report this to if you felt uncomfortable,” one of them said.

The employees worked for Charlie Rose Inc., and not Bloomberg LP or PBS, which said they did not provide human resources support for the show.

Rose's modus operandi seems to have mostly consisted of luring women to his office or to his residence, rather than doing it in places that would catch the attention of someone who would likely take action against him. It's a classic case of the sort of power that the powerful, especially powerful men, can wield over young women whose careers are dependent on their support.

Of course there's also this: At Duke, Rose was a Kappa Alpha, which at least back then** was the most redneck of redneck fraternities. Rose obviously overcame that group's neo-Confederate political leanings, but he clearly didn't ditch all of their other customs.

** Class of 1964
   153. Omineca Greg Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:47 AM (#5579323)
She did not get that you were supposed to say the potato and tomato differently. So she did not sing potato, potahto, but potato potato. At first we though it was a joke, but then people starting laughing

That's incredible! Did she do the whole song like that?

You say either and I say either,
You say neither and I say neither
Either, either Neither, neither

So if you like pyjamas and I like pyjamas,
I'll wear pyjamas and give up pyjamas**

You say laughter and I say laughter
You say after and I say after
Laughter, laughter after, after

So if you go for oysters and I go for oysters
I'll order oysters and cancel the oysters**

**Those are my favourites. Very Zen. Funny and enlightening! How can you ask for anything more from a song?

Oh, if she didn't do the whole song like that, lie and tell me that she did. That's how I want to remember it.

   154. dog poop god Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:50 AM (#5579326)
The Root of All Cruelty

Child neglect/abuse.
   155. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:50 AM (#5579327)
Andy, I'm not seeing the gotcha.

1990: “Whether that be good or bad, David Duke is going to get a lot of votes. Pat Buchanan—who really has many of the same theories, except it's in a better package—Pat Buchanan is going to take a lot of votes away from George Bush"

2016: “Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke. Okay?,”

I'm sorry, were you going to explain the alleged "gotcha" here?

Trump's phony claim of lack of knowledge about David Duke was explained repeatedly by Misirlou and me, but evidently it passed over your dear little head. There's little point in trying to explain it again, at least until you acquire a brain transplant.
   156. dog poop god Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5579330)

Of course there's also this: At Duke...

Stop right there; you convinced me.
   157. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5579332)
Roy Moore's latest parade of denials is being led by a supporter who claims there WAS a prominent Etowah county individual banned from the mall for hitting on the HS girls, but it wasn't Moore... it was some other guy... now dead... but the Mooreon won't name names because he doesn't want to be disrespectful.

Is Clapper's forensic expert going to be finished with that partial yearbook signature analysis soon?
   158. The Good Face Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5579334)
True. Then again, I have more money than the NPV of what I've inherited, while he has less.


Aside from the fact that you don't actually know how much money Trump has (only that it's way more than you), that's the standard you want to hitch your wagon to? You're slightly better at money management than a retard? A moron? A man dumber than a pre-schooler?

But of course, by your own argument, even THAT's not true. Because you claimed Trump lost all his money. Four times. Meaning he started from less than you, over and over. And still has much, much, more money than you do. Sad! I guess on the bright side you're successfully fighting the stereotype of us Jews being smart and good with money.
   159. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:57 AM (#5579337)
32

Hitting 80 or even 90 by accident in a 70 mph can happen with minimal traffic. But 119?

That's just unsafe and she deserves to have the book thrown at her.


I wonder what her blood/alcohol level was. Interesting that nobody's saying.
   160. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5579338)
Do we really need to go through the list of morons that have lots of money?

Or would it be OK to just exhibit A the Kardashians and stop there?
   161. Swoboda is freedom Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:00 AM (#5579342)

That's incredible! Did she do the whole song like that?


Long time ago, but I seem to remember 2 or 3 verses. It was first auditions and they wanted to keep it short. For callbacks they did longer songs.
   162. Lassus Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5579346)
I wonder what her blood/alcohol level was. Interesting that nobody's saying.

I would imagine it was normal, which is why it hasn't been brought up. It sure as hell would have been brought up if it wasn't.
   163. dog poop god Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:06 AM (#5579347)
I may not have the time to get into it in depth, but last week's exchanges regarding condescension hit home, rooted in the conceit that my beliefs -- my anchors in reality -- are better than yours.

If I can give up that conceit -- if I can see each and evsry one of you as my equal in humanity, space opens up for the recognition mentioned in the Atlantic article.

Particularly to listen to other people's stories. Not only that, as soon as I relax my grip, people open up to me. I was in a restaurant last weekend when an older gentleman noticed my baseball cap and started talking baseball... which eventually led him to nearly come to tears describing his grandfather's profound influence upon him. Through his loving, and often strict, attention to his grandson so many years past. Which struck a chord with me and my grandfather.

So I'll try to tune in more to people's personal stories and less to their ideologies. My own as well.
   164. spycake Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:11 AM (#5579350)
When I was in high school, someone tried out for the musical by singing "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off". The lyrics are
.
You like potato and I like potahto
You like tomato and I like tomahto
Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto.
Let's call the whole thing off etc

She did not get that you were supposed to say the potato and tomato differently. So she did not sing potato, potahto, but potato potato. At first we though it was a joke, but they people starting laughing.


Christopher Walken did that (intentionally, of course) on SNL some years ago. Video here:

https://iheartjimmy.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/potato-potahto/
   165. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:13 AM (#5579351)
Best performance of Christopher Walken's career.

"Run, Johnny Run." The episode features Marcy Lafferty, later married to (and divorced from) Bill Shatner, and a 26 year old Al Michaels, in a ridiculously incompetent performance as a defense attorney. (Michaels's character literally brings the head of the police force in to the jail cell for a should-have-been-privileged meeting with his client.)


   166. The Good Face Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:14 AM (#5579352)
Do we really need to go through the list of morons that have lots of money?

Or would it be OK to just exhibit A the Kardashians and stop there?


Don't confuse the actor with the role. Mama Kardashian at the very least is a savvy businesswoman and no dummy, and she's the one running that show.
   167. PepTech Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:19 AM (#5579355)
rooted in the conceit that my beliefs -- my anchors in reality -- are better than yours.
I used to think the best thing I could teach my kids is some kind of Golden Rule-like maxim, and while that's still a pretty good one, I've changed my focus to "different is not wrong".

I mean, it *can* be, and obviously there's layers and stuff, but generally speaking people who are doing things that make no sense to me are not "wrong" or "bad" but simply working from a different set of circumstances, and probably doing the best they can.

And some people are just ########, there's always that to consider :)
   168. dog poop god Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5579360)
Well see what you want to see. You should see it all.
Well take what you want from me. You deserve it all.
Nine times out of ten our hearts just get dissolved.
Well I want a better place or just a better way to fall.
But one time out of ten, everything is perfect for us all.
   169. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5579361)
Inherited wealth goes to people who are without merit. That’s why I think the estate tax should be raised by a lot, to stop the perpetuation of these aristocratic families who contribute little (often negative, like the Trumps) to society.
   170. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:31 AM (#5579364)
Don't confuse the actor with the role. Mama Kardashian at the very least is a savvy businesswoman and no dummy, and she's the one running that show.


...which appears to have given her daughters, who have no talents I can discern, quite a leg up in being morons that continue to make lots of money. You are aware that various among them have other ventures of their own for which they are handsomely compensated, right?

Or - do you think the Kim one inherited mom's business smarts by wrangling up to $300k simply to social media post various product placements?

I'd be perfectly willing to say that Trump possesses the same keen acumen as the Kardashian girls to use a family name brand to separate both rich rubes and poor rubes from their money.

Fred Trump was a savvy - and at least to some degree, depending which of the various activities you want to take him to task for, immoral - businessman, too.

Just as I'm sure the K girls picked up some tips from momma that they then used along with their nice start on the road to riches, I'm sure formerly lil' Trump did too.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the Dems run in 2020, but if it's Kim Kardashian - I'm out... She's basically Trump with boobs... well, and I suppose, without the sexual assault allegations... and the racism.... OK - just because she's better than Trump still doesn't mean I'd back her, defend her, or otherwise so much as entertain the notion she belongs in the Oval Office for anything other than a photo op.
   171. Hot Wheeling American Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:33 AM (#5579365)
Got to see Kim's list of judges before saying what I would do
   172. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5579370)
Is Clapper's forensic expert going to be finished with that partial yearbook signature analysis soon?

Let's keep the facts straight. It's Gloria Allred and her client who have refused to allow that yearbook to be examined by experts. Make of it what you will.
   173. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5579371)
Inherited wealth goes to people who are without merit.


This statement is very wrong, morally, and analytically. It looks at the wrong end of the equation. Parents who are invested in their families work very hard to leave their children wealth, or at least to make wealth in order to put their children in a position to succeed in life. That should be incentivized and rewarded. It's a social good.
   174. The Good Face Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:41 AM (#5579373)
...which appears to have given her daughters, who have no talents I can discern, quite a leg up in being morons that continue to make lots of money. You are aware that various among them have other ventures of their own for which they are handsomely compensated, right?


They've essentially leveraged being attractive young women (but not supermodel or Hollywood attractive) into a nine figure media empire. What a bunch of morons.

The Kardashians are trashy, or at least the characters they play are, and UMC types (or wannabe UMC types) associate trashy with stupid. It's not necessarily a terrible heuristic, but put aside your prejudices and class assumptions and try actually thinking for a change.
   175. Hot Wheeling American Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:41 AM (#5579374)
Let's keep the facts straight. It's Gloria Allred and her client who have refused to allow the yearbook to be examined by experts. Make of it what you will.

Does The Yankee Clapper support Roy Moore's candidacy for the Senate? Is Mr. Moore a fair representation of the modern Republican Party?
   176. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5579377)
"He can't be stupid - he's rich!"
   177. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:45 AM (#5579378)
This statement is very wrong, morally. It looks at the wrong end of the equation. Parents who are invested in their families work very hard to leave their children wealth, or at least to make wealth in order to put their children in a position to succeed in life. That should be incentivized and rewarded. It's a social good.


Fine. Add the language necessary to apply the estate tax solely to beneficiaries over 18.... or 21... or 25.... or whatever.

Let's not pretend Montgomery Hamptons IV and his wife Muffy at age 55 inheriting the whole kitty from Montgomery Hamptons III when he passes on at 90 has anything to do with 'putting him in a position to succeed' or constitutes some kind of social good.
   178. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:46 AM (#5579379)
Mugabe out. Better than Mugabe would be a low bar to clear, but even that seems uncertain at this point.
   179. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:51 AM (#5579381)
"He can't be stupid - he's rich!"


Watching TGF worship at the altar of wealth has been pretty amusing today.
   180. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:54 AM (#5579384)
They've essentially leveraged being attractive young women (but not supermodel or Hollywood attractive) into a nine figure media empire. What a bunch of morons.


I agree. I think you get my point so I'm not sure why we're arguing.

The Kardashians are trashy, or at least the characters they play are, and UMC types (or wannabe UMC types) associate trashy with stupid. It's not necessarily a terrible heuristic, but put aside your prejudices and class assumptions and try actually thinking for a change.


United Methodist Church? typo'ed US Marine Corps?

Regardless, I'm not the one unable to apply some critical thinking here.

While I imagine the demographic targets are more adjacent than similar - perhaps the moms of the daughters that make a Kim K tweet worth being worth a 5-6 figure check from the brand - I'll give you a counter example: Oprah Winfrey.

I find her success (coupled with her biography/resume) to be extraordinarily compelling evidence that she's NOT a moron and is in fact, very smart/clever/etc.
   181. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:56 AM (#5579387)
Does The Yankee Clapper support Roy Moore's candidacy for the Senate?

We may never find out. 5th amendment, ya know.

Is Mr. Moore a fair representation of the modern Republican Party?

We'll know that (1) if he gets elected and then (2) if he is, whether he'll be allowed to caucus with the GOP, and (3) by the nature of the committees he'll be assigned to.

Right now they just wish he'd go away and let a non-child molester replace him on the ballot.
   182. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:00 PM (#5579388)
And, FTR -

While I'm mostly making an educated guess as to what her platform and policy menus would be, I would absolutely have no problem supporting Oprah for President. I'm by no means interested in any sort of Draft Oprah movement, but if you want an example of someone pitching to cultural sweet spots and has, in part, made herself wealthy without the big head start that is one.
   183. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5579390)
Zonk, #170:
I guess we'll have to wait and see what the Dems run in 2020, but if it's Kim Kardashian - I'm out... She's basically Trump with boobs.


Too late. That job is already taken.


Clapper, #178:
Mugabe out. Better than Mugabe would be a low bar to clear, but even that seems uncertain at this point.


The GOP would happily take Mugabe to replace Roy Moore on next month's ballot.


Zonk, #182:
I'm by no means interested in any sort of Draft Oprah movement, but if you want an example of someone pitching to cultural sweet spots and has, in part, made herself wealthy without the big head ...


Er, have you SEEN her head?


...start


Oh.
   184. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:02 PM (#5579391)
Is Mr. Moore a fair representation of the modern Republican Party?


The modern GOP is Trump+Ryan+Moore. Sexual predators and racists, Christian jihadis so intent on turning the Republic into the "Dominion of God that they embrace pedophiles in their cause," and cynical ##### willing to cockholster any of the previous in order to slash taxes on their uber wealthy donors. And yes, Clapper supports them all.
   185. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:03 PM (#5579392)
Aside from the fact that you don't actually know how much money Trump has (only that it's way more than you), that's the standard you want to hitch your wagon to? You're slightly better at money management than a retard? A moron? A man dumber than a pre-schooler?
I see you use standard liberal rhetorical tropes. This one was common in the Bush years, and went like this:

"Bush is Hitler!"
"Uh, Hitler committed genocide."
"Oh, so the best you can say about Bush is that he's not as bad as Hitler? I rest my case."
But of course, by your own argument, even THAT's not true. Because you claimed Trump lost all his money. Four times. Meaning he started from less than you, over and over. And still has much, much, more money than you do.
That's false both substantively and historically. I didn't say that Trump lost "all" his money. (And, btw, googling I see that it was actually six times, not four, that Trump has had to file for bankruptcy.) Filing Chapter 11 means that you're underwater, which is not the same as having zero assets. Also, you misunderstand the timeline. Trump's daddy gave him lots of money. He managed it badly, and ended up filing for bankruptcy four times. Then Trump's daddy died, and Trump inherited lots more.

I do like how you're trollishly trying to pretend that you think net worth is a measure of intelligence. (Although it would make the libertarian Kochs [EDIT: AT LEAST] 10x as smart as the white nationalist Trump.)
   186. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:05 PM (#5579396)
I do like how you're trollishly trying to pretend that you think net worth is a measure of intelligence. (Although it would make the libertarian Kochs 10x as smart as the white nationalist Trump.)


And Warren Buffett smarter yet.
   187. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:05 PM (#5579397)
Mugabe out. Better than Mugabe would be a low bar to clear, but even that seems uncertain at this point.


So at this point even Zimbabwe is doing a better job at this than the United States. Nice.
   188. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:08 PM (#5579398)
This statement is very wrong, morally, and analytically. It looks at the wrong end of the equation. Parents who are invested in their families work very hard to leave their children wealth, or at least to make wealth in order to put their children in a position to succeed in life. That should be incentivized and rewarded. It's a social good.


Even if we were to grant you this argument - which we won't; you don't understand "social good" - but even if we were to grant it, it doesn't dispute or deny the point you're replying to. Neither Donald Trump nor his children will have done anything to deserve the riches they did and will inherit. And no, Ray, there is no "social" good in giving Eric Trump a cushion to make sure he's never held to account for his own lack of merit as a human being.
   189. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:08 PM (#5579400)
Inherited wealth goes to people who are without merit. That’s why I think the estate tax should be raised by a lot, to stop the perpetuation of these aristocratic families who contribute little (often negative, like the Trumps) to society.


The Trumps produced a President and a widely-respected federal judge. Me thinks they're not your best example.
   190. The Good Face Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:08 PM (#5579401)
"He can't be stupid - he's rich!"

Watching TGF worship at the altar of wealth has been pretty amusing today.


I'm merely questioning this strange new insistence on the part of the lefties here that rich, successful people are accumulating and keeping vast amounts of wealth while being morons, retards, or literally dumber than a pre-schooler. I mean, I could convince my pre-schoolers to do pretty much anything with the mere promise of a lollypop. So I'm just kind of surprised nobody has bothered to trade Trump a lolly for all his ill-gotten wealth. He seems to be awfully rich and kind of a dick, so why not just take advantage of his incredible stupidity to trick him out of his wealth? I mean how lazy ARE you guys?
   191. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:09 PM (#5579402)
The GOP would happily take Mugabe to replace Roy Moore on next month's ballot.

Well, since Mugabe recently described Trump as a "giant gold Goliath”, I can't see why Trump wouldn't gladly back him.
   192. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:11 PM (#5579405)
And no, Ray, there is no "social" good in giving Eric Trump a cushion to make sure he's never held to account for his own lack of merit as a human being


You missed his point entirely. The social good in permitting inherited wealth is to incentivize the generation before to work as hard as possible to generate as much wealth as possible. Otherwise, because of the law of diminishing returns, there's not much point in working past $25M or so, and it would be silly to encourage the most talented people to stop working early in their careers.
   193. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5579406)
The Trumps produced a President and a widely-respected federal judge. Me thinks they're not your best example.


The rank stupidity and corruption of the ####### proles who voted for the idiots and scam artists are not my fault.
   194. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5579407)
I'm merely questioning this strange new insistence on the part of the lefties here that rich, successful people are accumulating and keeping vast amounts of wealth while being morons, retards, or literally dumber than a pre-schooler. I mean, I could convince my pre-schoolers to do pretty much anything with the mere promise of a lollypop. So I'm just kind of surprised nobody has bothered to trade Trump a lolly for all his ill-gotten wealth. He seems to be awfully rich and kind of a dick, so why not just take advantage of his incredible stupidity to trick him out of his wealth? I mean how lazy ARE you guys?


FTR - McMaster used the word kindergartner, not pre-schooler.

Aside, though -- "awfully rich and kind of a dick..." answers the question you pose, doesn't it?

Awfully rich dicks tend to have awfully dickish attorneys.
   195. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5579408)
I'm merely questioning this strange new insistence on the part of the lefties here that rich, successful people are accumulating and keeping vast amounts of wealth while being morons, retards, or literally dumber than a pre-schooler.


To be fair, we're mainly focused on one specific retard.
   196. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:14 PM (#5579409)
The social good in permitting inherited wealth is to incentivize the generation before to work as hard as possible to generate as much wealth as possible. Otherwise, because of the law of diminishing returns, there's not much point in working past $25M or so, and it would be silly to encourage the most talented people to stop working early in their careers.


People who continue to strive after 25m aren't doing it for their children, idiot.
   197. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5579411)
Otherwise, because of the law of diminishing returns, there's not much point in working past $25M or so, and it would be silly to encourage the most talented people to stop working early in their careers.


Explain why the Rolling Stones continued making new records well into the 90s...
   198. The Good Face Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5579413)

Awfully rich dicks tend to have awfully dickish attorneys.


You realize that you have to hire, pay, and actually LISTEN to the advice of those dickish attorneys, right? What good fortune that a retard like Trump manages to do all those things successfully and has for decades. Strange how being really rich and having access to all those dickish attorneys hasn't helped countless other people from losing their fortunes due to their own stupidity. Man, that Trump just keeps getting lucky! Despite being a moron that's dumber than a pre-schooler (Madvillain's words), he just can't lose!
   199. spycake Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:22 PM (#5579414)
Let's keep the facts straight. It's Gloria Allred and her client who have refused to allow that yearbook to be examined by experts. Make of it what you will.


Let's further straighten the facts. It's Moore's camp that is so desperate that they have been repeating the "Bernie Bernstein robocall" nonsense. They are not interested in an honest examination of the yearbook, they just want to plant more seeds of doubt.

Seriously, Clapper, I disagree with you a lot, but I generally respect your arguments. This "yearbook authenticity" one, however, is incredibly weak.
   200. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: November 21, 2017 at 12:22 PM (#5579415)
TGF loves the taste of that trumpcock, huh?
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