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Monday, November 20, 2017

OTP 20 November 2017: Sheriff’s official suspended 10 days over Cubs World Series sneak-in

A high-ranking official in Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart’s office had to pay a price for allowing others to avoid having to pay the price of admission last year to a Cubs World Series game at Wrigley Field, newly obtained records show.

Mike Anton, a deputy chief with the sheriff’s police who makes about $120,000 a year, was suspended for 10 days for giving security IDs to two people so they could get in to a 2016 Cubs World Series game, the records show.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 20, 2017 at 08:01 AM | 1172 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: off-topic, politics, world series

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   401. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 06:19 PM (#5579827)
The republic isn't going to survive the tribalism


What's interesting here is that Misirlou admits he's driven by tribalism here.

   402. Omineca Greg Posted: November 21, 2017 at 06:21 PM (#5579828)
I listened so you wouldn't have to, and that is a seriously terrible song.

I'm glad there's a link. The copyright holder must realise that Canadians aren't ready for that song, I get "Video Unavailable" at that link.
   403. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 06:21 PM (#5579829)
What's interesting here is that Misirlou admits he's driven by tribalism here.


Not in the least. I'm driven by TDS. have you forgotten already? Al Franken can go to hell. John Conyers can go to hell. Trump and his defenders can go to hell.
   404. dog poop god Posted: November 21, 2017 at 06:27 PM (#5579832)
A lot of songs have that stalker element.

You can change your telephone number
And you can change your address too
But you can't stop me from loving you
No, you can't change that, no, no

You can change the color of your hair
And you can change the clothes you wear
But you'll never change the way I care
No, you can't change that
   405. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: November 21, 2017 at 06:36 PM (#5579838)
THAT'S how you condemn Trump.


Dude, no one's under any obligation to condemn anyone in accordance with your demands. Why you would think they are is a mystery very much left to the reader.

Do you go up to people in public and demand that they condemn Trump?
   406. BDC Posted: November 21, 2017 at 07:04 PM (#5579845)
A lot of songs have that stalker element

I don't want you to feel
When you go out for a meal
With my rivals in town
That I'm out to track you down
Or that when out you sail
To a date down in the dale
There's a Dictaphone
Under every stone
Or a bloodhound on your trail
However …

I've got my eyes on you

- Cole Porter
   407. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 21, 2017 at 07:11 PM (#5579846)
When I talk to co workers on the phone and the small talk turns to politics and they hem and haw about supporting Trump I stop the chit chat and get down to business. I'm not wasting my time with idiots.
   408. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 21, 2017 at 07:35 PM (#5579856)
So speaking of tribalism and the dangers thereof...

I finally joined the modern entertainment era and got myself a Netflix subscription last weekend. As the ToS require one to binge watch a certain minimum of series, I have selected The 100 to meet my minimum requirement.

I'm about just about through season 2 and I remain undecided what I think about it.

On the one hand, as with most scifi stuff - it requires some rather extraordinary suspension of disbelief (survivors have constructed - and maintained - an ark-like space station that they've managed to survive three generations on but haven't got the simplest of sensors or methods to determine when/if the earth they're orbiting becomes habitable again? And with such technology, constructing simple and sturdy communication technology that requires all of the technical expertise of mid-19th radio is beyond them?). It's also got the requisite YA bevy of 'legal' teens finding true love.

OTOH, I'm rather impressed by the fact that the actual villains and heroes are both few in number and fleeting - while most of the characters seem capable of both. The misdirection of some of the plot elements - though leading to eye roll melodramatics in many cases - tends to be relatively effective.

In short, I guess I'd say that about 75% of it I find fascinating or at least interesting enough to keep going and overlook the other 25%.
   409. Omineca Greg Posted: November 21, 2017 at 07:39 PM (#5579858)
ETA: Beaten to the punch on Young Girl

Another Smokey classic...

That day, I first saw you, whoa whoa, passing by
I wanted to know your name but I was just too shy
But I was looking at you so hard
Until you must have had a hunch
So you came up to me and asked me my name
You beat me to the punch, that time
You beat me to the punch
You beat me to the punch

Whoa, after I hadn't known you for it seemed like a long, long time
I wanted, wanted to ask you would you please, please be mine
Whenever you came around, my heart would pound
So you must have had a hunch
So you came up to me and asked me to be yours
You beat me to the punch one more time
You beat me to the punch
You beat me to the punch, yeah

Since I love you I thought you would be true
And love me tender, so I let my heart surrender
To you, yes I did
But I found out beyond a doubt one day boy, you were a playboy
Who would go away and leave me blue
So I ain't gonna wait around for you to put me down
This time I'm gonna play my hunch
And walk away this very day
And beat you to the punch this time
And beat you to the punch this time
I'll beat you to the punch
Yes I will and let you know how it feels

Robinson
   410. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:03 PM (#5579862)
OTOH, I'm rather impressed by the fact that the actual villains and heroes are both few in number and fleeting - while most of the characters seem capable of both. The misdirection of some of the plot elements - though leading to eye roll melodramatics in many cases - tends to be relatively effective.

In later seasons, there are more clearly defined villains.

First season of The 100 was its best. The last season (4th or maybe 5th?) ended on a really weird cliff-hanger. It's a show that I'm on the fence about watching when it returns because it's started to get really goofy.

It's like The Hunger Games: interesting (albeit unbelievable) premise that really couldn't be sustained over any length of time.
   411. Jay Z Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:09 PM (#5579864)
Or put simply: you no longer wont get a job because you're gay, or black, or jewish, or a woman. But it is totally permitted, even encouraged by our modern fetish for credentialing, to not get a job because you grew up poor. That's bullshit and as much an infringement of human rights as all the of the anti gay, anti black, anti-Semitic or misogynist sentiment that we've done such yeoman's work in combating.


One of the arguments for inheritance taxes, even a libertarian argument, is that property is based on contracts, and contracts can't outlive the death of all involved. I'm not obliged to live in economic slavery just because your great grandpappy was a genius and mine was an idiot. If we don't start chipping away at inheritance time, the results of transactions years ago are going to be enshrined until the end of time.

Champion boxers don't get to keep their titles without fighting again. The sanctioning bodies force them to defend their titles. Even though they have nothing to gain (well they get paid for the fights) in defending the title.
   412. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:12 PM (#5579867)
Then there's Andre Williams' "Jail Bait":

I'm running, yes, before it's too late
Trying to get away from that jail bait

It's a rough temptation
But a common invitation
And a good association
But a quick elimination
That will take you out of circulation
Yes, I'm talking about that younger generation

So take my advice, fellas
For goodness sake
15, 16, 17-- that's jail bait

Now they swear that they're in love
That you and her got stars above
And she's lookin' mighty good
Just like a young girl should

We try to tell ya no,
And let that young girl go
But you, you know it all
You have yourself a ball

And now that it's too late
As you look from cell #8
I tried to tell ya, old mate
17 and one-half is still jail bait

So tomorrow's the date
For the trial of jail bait
And this you watch and see
The young girl will go free
And you'll get one to three

So out the door she walks
To another man she talks
Before you can count
From one to eight
Another man in for... jail bait

Please, Mister Judge
If you just let me go this time
I won't mess with them young girls no more
I swear I'm not gonna bother them no more, Mister Judge
I ain't gonna bother none fifteen
I ain't gonna bother none sixteen
I ain't gonna bother none seventeen
I ain't gonna mess with none eighteen
I'm gonna leave them twenty-year-old ones alone, too
Gonna get me a girl about forty-two
If you just believe what I say and let me go Mister Judge
Please Mister Judge, I ain't gonna bother then young girls no more
Gimme a break, Mister Judge
Please, Mister Judge


(The song doesn't work as well when the singer is also Mister Judge.)
   413. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:52 PM (#5579873)
Do you go up to people in public and demand that they condemn Trump?


Of course not. It's so starange that you would think that.
   414. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 21, 2017 at 08:56 PM (#5579874)
And what's your remedy for our kitty-grabbing president? The ballot box? If so, why shouldn't that also be the remedy for Moore and Franken?

My preferred option would for them to resign/dropout as well. Or for both to eat a bullet, I don't really care. I'd just like them both gone. But obviously not holding my breath, since neither has accepted responsibility for their misdeeds.

I think it is silly to pretend that Trump, Moore, and Franken are all the same - they are all three very different. Each instance is different, but still I am OK with the ultimate arbiter of the political fate of all three being the ballot box.

I have no problem with any of them resigning or whatever, but I don't think any of them should be made to based on what we know right now. Of course I don't think I would vote for any of them either, but that is a different matter.


That's pretty much my position. Let the voters decide, and let their respective parties suffer whatever consequences may ensue.
   415. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 21, 2017 at 09:20 PM (#5579877)
To be clear, my position: if there is compelling evidence that a political candidate or elected official has committed sexual assault, then that person should be disqualified from serving.

I agree, but the problem is that the post-Weinstein era moral panic about sexual harassment has elided the difference between sexual assault, non-sexual assault, sexual harassment, just plain being an #######, and oversensitive women. I think it's obvious with the first category, but much less so with any of the others, particularly since whether one of the other acts occurred might be subjective and easily disputable. It's not clear to me that, e.g., being accused of once groping an adult's ass 20 years ago ought to be a permanent bar to politics or any other job.

Yeah, subtleties and nuances don't tend to last too long at times like this. We can disagree on where to place unwanted sexual advances along the spectrum when they're below the level of Moore or Weinstein or Rose or Trump---not that what those four did was identical, but they were all way beyond any decent pale---but when you start equating repeated acts like theirs with Franken's**, you lose all sense of proportion.

** Obviously what Franken did was indefensible, but it was nothing remotely comparable to what those other four repeatedly put women (or 14 year old girls) through. And here's what 3 dozen women who worked with Franken on SNL had to say about him:
We feel compelled to stand up for Al Franken, whom we have all had the pleasure of working with over the years on Saturday Night Live (SNL)
.
What Al did was stupid and foolish, and we think it was appropriate for him to apologize to Ms Tweeden, and to the public. In our experience, we know Al as a devoted and dedicated family man, a wonderful comedic performer, and an honorable public servant. That is why we are moved to quickly and directly affirm that after years of working with him, we would like to acknowledge that not one of us ever experienced any inappropriate behavior; and mention our sincere appreciation that he treated each of us with the utmost respect and regard.

SIGNED BY
1. Jill Baylor, Production Assistant,1991-92
2. Shannon Gaughan Bowman, Writer, 1988-89
3. Beth Einhorn, Script PA,1987-1988
4. Cindy Caponera, Writer, 1995-98
5. Jane Curtin, Not Ready for Prime Time Player, original cast, 1975-80
6. Tracy Cooper Drippe, Script PA/ Script Supervisor,1986-1991
7. Suzy Drasnin, Production Staff/Photographer,1986-90
8. Juli Pari Frankel, Script PA, 1984-1985
9. Julia Fraser, Script Supervisor, 1978-1985
10. Tara Gardner, Writers Assistant, 1990-95
11. Iris March Gross, Broadway Video/SNL 1977-1985
12. Marcy Hardart, Assistant to Lorne Michaels, 1987-1990
13. Lori Jo Hoekstra, Writer’s Assistant/Weekend Update Producer, 1990-1998
14. Sheila Kehoe, Costume Dept, 1976-82
15. Marci Klein, Co-Producer, 1989-2014
16. Franne Lee, Costume Designer, 1975-80
17. Laila Nabulsi, Schiller’s Reel 1975-79; Associate Producer, 1985-1986
18. Laraine Newman, Not Ready for Prime Time Player, original cast, 1975-80
19. Mary Ellen Mathews, Show Photographer, 1993- present
20. Cristina McGinniss, Assistant to Lorne Michaels (25 years);Broadway Video,1979 - present
21. Marilyn Suzanne Miller, Writer, 1975 -1994 (intermittently)
22. Dinah Minot, Associate Producer,1985-1989; Co-Producer, Broadway Pictures,1989-96
23. Evie Murray, Assistant to Lorne Michaels & consultant, 1983-1994
24. Sarah Paley, Writer, 1979-80 (& The New Show 1981-82)
25. Sandra Restrepo Considine, Script Supervisor/PA - 1987-1993
26. Suzanne Rosenberg, Coordinating Producer/Weekend Update, 1983-2003
27. Suzanne Ross, Script PA, 1991-1993
28. Karen Roston, Costume Designer, 1975-1983
29. Mary Salter, Film Producer, 1977-1987
30. Claire Shirey, Script Coordinator, 1982-present
31. Rosie Shuster, Writer, 1975-1980;1984-88
32. Kiki Kazanas Steele, Script PA/Script Supervisor, 1985-1990
33. Pam Thomas, Consultant, 1980s
34. Bonnie Turner, Writer, 1986-1993
35. Christine Zander, Writer,1987-1993
36. Liz Welch, Talent Coordinator, 1981-89



   416. madvillain Posted: November 21, 2017 at 09:33 PM (#5579882)
I can't stand Al Franken (posted an anecdote about his douchiness the other day in fact) but what he has been accused of (and from the photographic evidence) barely even rises to the level of harassment, let alone assault like POTUS and so many others have been accused of doing.

This is where I disagree with the stupid "#yesallmen" hashtag that wants to paint all men with the same broad brush. No, let's not do that because it's not right and it's also counter productive. If we start equating Bill Cosby with Al Franken (for example) then we've gone too far. People are out for blood right now and it's time to just take a deep breath and try and treat everybody that's been accused on a case by case basis.

At the risk of pissing off TGF or perros yes, it's obvious, (and has this last month's worth of tales of men behaving badly not utterly confirmed it once and for all?) we live in a patricharal society. You cannot convince me that if the roles were reversed, and it was men trying to break into professional fields after being relegating to having babies and domestic duties for much of history, that women would not have acted the same way. The strong get away with what they can and the weak suffer what they must, that's a fact.

The power dynamic is absolutely the crux of the behavior IMO. It's more than just sexual just like rape is more than sexual. Now, if you want to argue there are perhaps evolutionary reasons that for both men and women violence is an aphrodisiac I will listen with an open mind. I have been with a few women, not nearly as many as the good judge from Ohio, (and probably not as stunning either!) but most of them have responded quite well to what I would call "sexual aggression". One woman in particular was obsessed with how I tore her pantyhose one night and begged me to try and explain to her boyfriend six months later how she wanted to be handled in sexy times. That was really awkward, I turned down the requeest for a m,m,g threesome. Call me a prude I guess but not really my thing.

Anyways, as Ani Difranco so eloquently put it: men grow to be me and women grow to be women. It's all any of us can do in this ###### up world to try and make our own way. But men bear the responsibility for this world and it's our responsibility to fix it.

   417. Hot Wheeling American Posted: November 21, 2017 at 09:53 PM (#5579887)
The preferred choice of President Trump and The Yankee Clapper for the open U.S. Senate seat in Alabama, Roy Moore, has been the topic of discussion today. Let's check out some twitter quick hits, HWA-style:

@BenjySarlin
Trump insisted the Central Park Five were guilty after they were exonerated by DNA evidence and a confession.

But Roy Moore "totally denies it" is good enough for the next U.S. Senator apparently.

@rachelheldevans
I signed all their damn purity pledges at 14, 15, never knowing they'd gladly sell me to the highest bidder for a judge on the Supreme Court or a senator to vote for tax reform.

@MooreSenate
Good morning, Alabama!

Day 7 of New York attorney Gloria Allred's refusal to turn over her fake yearbook for third party examination.

#ALSen

@davidfrum
Gloria Allred lives and works in Los Angeles. Born in Philadelphia. But she’s “New York” in the “Bernie Bernstein” sense of the term ...

@Timodc
A child molester who has expressed support for jailing gay Americans is so far beneath the dignity of the United States Senate that it requires action.
   418. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 09:57 PM (#5579888)
[TGF] may hate Democrats

False. I'm closer to the Dems on policy than I am to the GOP.
Sure you are. You were this close to pulling the lever for Hillary last November. You're a huge fan of Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Maxine Waters. The only difficulty you have is deciding whether you would prefer Dianne Feinstein or Al Franken to be our next president.
   419. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 09:59 PM (#5579891)
The preferred choice of President Trump and The Yankee Clapper for the open U.S. Senate seat in Alabama, Roy Moore,


And Ray.
   420. madvillain Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:22 PM (#5579897)
@417 -- and the GOP thought Trump was the litmus test for political expediency over decency! Weren't those halycon days!
   421. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:28 PM (#5579898)
The preferred choice of President Trump and The Yankee Clapper for the open U.S. Senate seat in Alabama . . .

You'd think a silly little sock puppet obsessing on what I post here would at least make some attempt to be accurate. I have made no endorsement, here or elsewhere - not that it will impact the election.
   422. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:35 PM (#5579899)
Sock puppet? I'm usually attuned. Not this time.
   423. dog poop god Posted: November 21, 2017 at 10:50 PM (#5579901)
When true love knocked upon my door
She'd just barely turned fifteen
And I was a little bit nervous
If you know just what I mean.
But I've heard somewhere
That true love conquers all
And I figured that was that
Then I started having dreams 'bout
Being chased out of town
Wearing nothing but my cowboy hat.


-- Townes Van Zandt, No Deal
   424. Hot Wheeling American Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:03 PM (#5579903)
Sock puppet? I'm usually attuned. Not this time.

It’s an odd insult. I’ve been registered since ‘06. Not a celebrated poster by any means and spent most of the time lurking, but this is not the account of a more recognized primate. It’s not like anyone holds back in pointing out the shamelessness of The Yankee Clapper. Hopefully he can forgive regular readers for thinking that running interference for the Candidate Cowboy while remaining otherwise silent on a very notable race might be a tacit endorsement.
   425. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:07 PM (#5579905)
It’s not like anyone holds back in pointing out the shamelessness of The Yankee Clapper. Hopefully he can forgive regular readers for thinking that running interference for the Candidate Cowboy while remaining otherwise silent on a very notable race might be a tacit endorsement.

As I said a page or two ago, that's what the 5th amendment is for. Clapper's a great believer in the 5th amendment when it comes to endorsing Moore.
   426. Omineca Greg Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:09 PM (#5579907)
Townes Van Zandt, No Deal

HA! I remember my wife and I stayed up all night once debating the very verse you quoted.

I was arguing the, "Townes was great, and I have enough trust in him as a songwriter to use imagery like that in a non-exploitative way."

She had the opinion, expressed in her typically understated and even-handed manner, "That guy can eat #### and die."

Shake the dust off of your wings, and the tears out of your eyes.
   427. greenback wears sandals on his head Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:21 PM (#5579911)
It’s an odd insult. I’ve been registered since ‘06. Not a celebrated poster by any means and spent most of the time lurking, but this is not the account of a more recognized primate. It’s not like anyone holds back in pointing out the shamelessness of The Yankee Clapper. Hopefully he can forgive regular readers for thinking that running interference for the Candidate Cowboy while remaining otherwise silent on a very notable race might be a tacit endorsement.

You should change your handle to "Yankee Clapper's Sock Puppet." We'd all understand that you've backed yourself into this silly corner and now you can't find another way of expressing your disgust with the GOP. The repeated accusations from your primary account are a nifty clue though.
   428. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:24 PM (#5579913)
. If we start equating Bill Cosby with Al Franken (for example) then we've gone too far

No one has done that, at least not here.

Franken's behavior is unacceptable and I see no compelling political reason for expending political capital to protect him or electoral advantage for him sticking around. For the good of the party, he should resign and his continued presence detracts from Democrats' ability to draw attention to GOP sex offenders (DJT, Moore, etc). Plus there's the little thing about sexual assault not being acceptable under any circumstance.

Franken has no future. Conyers has no future. Why the hell shouldn't they be made an example of?

I'm not sure that she's the answer, but Gillibrand was shrewd this weekend by going after Bill Clinton. In one sentence, she got herself out of HRC's shadow, took the right stand on an issue, and positioned herself favorably for the majority of the party who is tired of Clinton antics. It was cold as hell, but frankly the geriatric Baby Boomers who won't exit gracefully could use a few more well-placed knives to the back (figuratively speaking, of course).
   429. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:27 PM (#5579914)
** Obviously what Franken did was indefensible, but it was nothing remotely comparable to what those other four repeatedly put women (or 14 year old girls) through. And here's what 3 dozen women who worked with Franken on SNL had to say about him:

We feel compelled to stand up for Al Franken, whom we have all had the pleasure of working with over the years on Saturday Night Live (SNL)
.
What Al did was stupid and foolish, and we think it was appropriate for him to apologize to Ms Tweeden, and to the public. In our experience, we know Al as a devoted and dedicated family man, a wonderful comedic performer, and an honorable public servant. That is why we are moved to quickly and directly affirm that after years of working with him, we would like to acknowledge that not one of us ever experienced any inappropriate behavior; and mention our sincere appreciation that he treated each of us with the utmost respect and regard.

SIGNED BY
1. Jill Baylor, Production Assistant,1991-92
2. Shannon Gaughan Bowman, Writer, 1988-89
3. Beth Einhorn, Script PA,1987-1988
4. Cindy Caponera, Writer, 1995-98
5. Jane Curtin, Not Ready for Prime Time Player, original cast, 1975-80
6. Tracy Cooper Drippe, Script PA/ Script Supervisor,1986-1991
7. Suzy Drasnin, Production Staff/Photographer,1986-90
8. Juli Pari Frankel, Script PA, 1984-1985
9. Julia Fraser, Script Supervisor, 1978-1985
10. Tara Gardner, Writers Assistant, 1990-95
11. Iris March Gross, Broadway Video/SNL 1977-1985
12. Marcy Hardart, Assistant to Lorne Michaels, 1987-1990
13. Lori Jo Hoekstra, Writer’s Assistant/Weekend Update Producer, 1990-1998
14. Sheila Kehoe, Costume Dept, 1976-82
15. Marci Klein, Co-Producer, 1989-2014
16. Franne Lee, Costume Designer, 1975-80
17. Laila Nabulsi, Schiller’s Reel 1975-79; Associate Producer, 1985-1986
18. Laraine Newman, Not Ready for Prime Time Player, original cast, 1975-80
19. Mary Ellen Mathews, Show Photographer, 1993- present
20. Cristina McGinniss, Assistant to Lorne Michaels (25 years);Broadway Video,1979 - present
21. Marilyn Suzanne Miller, Writer, 1975 -1994 (intermittently)
22. Dinah Minot, Associate Producer,1985-1989; Co-Producer, Broadway Pictures,1989-96
23. Evie Murray, Assistant to Lorne Michaels & consultant, 1983-1994
24. Sarah Paley, Writer, 1979-80 (& The New Show 1981-82)
25. Sandra Restrepo Considine, Script Supervisor/PA - 1987-1993
26. Suzanne Rosenberg, Coordinating Producer/Weekend Update, 1983-2003
27. Suzanne Ross, Script PA, 1991-1993
28. Karen Roston, Costume Designer, 1975-1983
29. Mary Salter, Film Producer, 1977-1987
30. Claire Shirey, Script Coordinator, 1982-present
31. Rosie Shuster, Writer, 1975-1980;1984-88
32. Kiki Kazanas Steele, Script PA/Script Supervisor, 1985-1990
33. Pam Thomas, Consultant, 1980s
34. Bonnie Turner, Writer, 1986-1993
35. Christine Zander, Writer,1987-1993
36. Liz Welch, Talent Coordinator, 1981-89


I absolutely love this defense. "Hey, here's a list of all the people OJ didn't murder!!!!"
   430. Omineca Greg Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:30 PM (#5579916)
And since I'm here anyway, we can do this classic. Written by the author when he was in the pokey for statutory rape, right at the beginning of his music career. I'm guessing his wife wasn't particularly impressed with him.

I love you, I'll prove it in days to come
I swear it's true,
Darlin', you're the only one
I think of you, of the past and all our fun
I love you, I'll prove it in days to come

You're my darling, you've been true
I should have been good to you
You're the one that's in my heart
While we're apart

I'll be true,
I'll prove it to you someday
My love is for you,
In my heart you'll always stay
I've been so blue and lonesome all these days
I love you, I'll prove it a thousand ways

I'll be nice and sweet to you
And no more will you be blue
I'll prove I love you everyday
All kinds of ways

Darlin' please wait,
Please wait until I'm free
There'll be a change,
A great change made in me
I'll be true, there'll be no more blue days
I love you, I'll prove it a thousand ways

Frizzell
   431. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:34 PM (#5579917)
The preferred choice of President Trump and The Yankee Clapper for the open U.S. Senate seat in Alabama, Roy Moore,

And Ray.


Keep lying, Misirlie. No reason to stop now.

I mean, you're literally telling lies here. I've said that Moore is contemptible and should step down. You're simply not interested in telling the truth, or in having an honest discussion. Why your partners in crime here on this website don't step up and call you a liar is an exercise very much left for the reader.
   432. zenbitz Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:36 PM (#5579920)
Don't worry - Steve Nicks bails us menfolk all out with the symmetry inducing "Edge of Seventeen".

   433. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:37 PM (#5579921)
I've said that Moore is contemptible and should step down.


How about Trump?
   434. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:38 PM (#5579922)
I will admit that 429 brought a smile to my face. But at the same time I think yours is a teeny bit of an overplay, Ray.
   435. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:39 PM (#5579924)
Misirlie


Forget how to spell? Or is this a juvenile insult?
   436. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:42 PM (#5579925)
I hope to Vishnu that the woman who's suing Trump for calling her a liar refuses to settle before trial. That will be an awesome spectacle, that trial. I hope Trump doesn't croak before it begins.
   437. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:42 PM (#5579926)
I've said that Moore is contemptible and should step down.

How about Trump?


How about you stop telling lies?

This is a pretty ugly part of this site. I say enough things people can criticize that they shouldn't have to invent things to ruin my reputation. Lurkers drop in here and think that I support the child molester Roy Moore, because you keep lying and saying it time and again despite knowing it's not true. That's pretty disgusting behavior and people here ought not stand idly by while it happens.
   438. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:45 PM (#5579928)
How about you stop telling lies?

This is a pretty ugly part of this site. I say enough things people can criticize that they shouldn't have to invent things to ruin my reputation. Lurkers drop in here and think that I support the child molester Roy Moore, because you keep lying and saying it time and again despite knowing it's not true. That's pretty disgusting behavior and people here ought not stand idly by while it happens.


So you think Trump should step down? Have you said that? If so, you have my sincerest apologies.
   439. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:46 PM (#5579929)
Lurkers drop by and think you support Trump the sexual assaulter, because you defend him.

So I'll ask: How about Trump? Should he step down?
   440. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:47 PM (#5579930)
Conyers has no future.

Conyers is 88 years old - a little older than Pelosi - so yeah, not much time left, but some. About 5 years according to the actuarial tables. Perhaps he should go for the sympathy angle, explaining that most of his "problems" occurred when his wife was in the slammer on a bribery conviction? Who wouldn't go for a love story like that?
   441. Omineca Greg Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:49 PM (#5579931)
Don't worry - Steve Nicks bails us menfolk all out with the symmetry inducing "Edge of Seventeen".


I'm right in the middle of watching I Called Him Morgan on Netflix. It's about trumpeter Lee Morgan, and his older, common law wife, Helen. Very touching love story so far...I wonder how it ends?
   442. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:52 PM (#5579932)
So you think Trump should step down? Have you said that? If so, you have my sincerest apologies.


You are literally telling a lie that I support Roy Moore.

Just directly out and out lying.
   443. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:55 PM (#5579933)
You are literally telling a lie that I support Roy Moore.

Just directly out and out lying.


Should Trump step down?

If Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton endorsed a child molester, would you be so equivocal?
   444. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: November 21, 2017 at 11:58 PM (#5579934)
.
   445. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:00 AM (#5579936)
Anyone else want to concede that Misirlou is a liar? He has literally said here that I support Moore.
   446. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:01 AM (#5579937)
Anyone else want to concede that Misirlou is a liar? He has literally said here that I support Moore.


Should Trump step down?

If Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton endorsed a child molester, would you be so equivocal?
   447. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:01 AM (#5579939)
Anyone?
   448. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:02 AM (#5579940)
Anyone?


Should Trump step down?

If Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton endorsed a child molester, would you be so equivocal?
   449. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:06 AM (#5579941)
Anyone want to concede on the record that Misirlou is content to smear a poster's reputation by lying about what the poster said, pretending the poster supports a child molester when the poster specifically repeatedly said the opposite?

It doesn't seem like this behavior should be tolerated by the community. If people disagree with what someone says, fine, but to lie and pretend that the person's position is the opposite of what the person said to me is beyond the bounds of accepted behavior here.

Is it ok because Misirlou is a liberal?
   450. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:07 AM (#5579942)
Anyone want to concede that Misirlou is content to smear a poster's reputation by lying about what the poster said, pretending the poster supports a child molester when the poster specifically repeatedly said the opposite?


Should Trump step down?

If Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton endorsed a child molester, would you be so equivocal?
   451. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:09 AM (#5579943)
Yeah. The first time may have been a mistake in misinterpreting your previous posts, but given that you responded unequivocally that you don't support Moore, he should take it back.
   452. madvillain Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:11 AM (#5579944)
[Should Trump step down?
/quote]

trick question?
   453. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:15 AM (#5579945)
In later seasons, there are more clearly defined villains.

First season of The 100 was its best. The last season (4th or maybe 5th?) ended on a really weird cliff-hanger. It's a show that I'm on the fence about watching when it returns because it's started to get really goofy


Sounds like BSG - which I personally loved right through the end, including the deus ex machina ending everyone else hated... but even BSG sort of the reached the point of "enough with the betrayals and everybody is so terrible because X, Y, and Z" that kind of dragged season 3 and a lot of 4.

I pretty much quit on the Walking Dead when they got to Alexandria because it was just 'enough already'... I didn't need to keep watching to know everyone was going to get tested again, be forced to embrace their dark sides, things would turn to ####, and some characters would probably die - likely the ones who decide their soul trumps their survival.

I suppose that's a problem that plagues almost every scifi show that isn't of the space explorers bringing you strange new worlds of the week with the occasional longer arcs of the occasional intergalactic war.

In any case, knocked out a few more episodes and now into season 3... and I think I see where this is headed. Still, there's a enough interesting stuff left that I'll probably make it to the point of a total catch-up. My other big beef is that the need to parse out the redemption arcs a little more slowly appears to have created a character flood which can get annoying.
   454. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:16 AM (#5579946)
Yeah. The first time may have been a mistake in misinterpreting your previous posts, but given that you responded unequivocally that you don't support Moore, he should take it back.


I believe Ray doesn't support Moore and thinks he should step down. I also believe Ray's protestations are meaningless without further condemnation of Trump and Trumpism, which enables deplorables like Moore and his supporters. If that upsets Ray, well #### him.
   455. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:16 AM (#5579947)
trick question?


I find it hilarious that Misirlou doesn't know how to spell Barack.

Four times on this page alone.
   456. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:18 AM (#5579948)
I find it hilarious that Misirlou doesn't know how to spell Barack.


Weak minds are easily amused.
   457. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:21 AM (#5579949)
I believe Ray doesn't support Moore and thinks he should step down. I also believe Ray's protestations are meaningless without further condemnation of Trump and Trumpism, which enables deplorables like Moore and his supporters. If that upsets Ray, well #### him.


"If me lying about what Ray says in order to smear his reputation by pretending he supports a child molester upsets Ray, well #### him."

You're free to make whatever irrelevant arguments you wish. You're not free to just flat out lie about what I say just because you don't like me or my opinions, and other posters here should call it out as unacceptable behavior.

It's particularly bizarre here when I've repeatedly signed on to *the very opinion of Roy Moore that you hold*. And I've not offered one word in support of Moore. If you were an honest and sane person you wouldn't attack me for holding the same opinion on Moore that you do.
   458. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:24 AM (#5579951)
"If me lying about what Ray says in order to smear his reputation by pretending he supports a child molester upsets Ray, well #### him."

You're free to make whatever irrelevant arguments you wish. You're not free to just flat out lie about what I say just because you don't like me or my opinions, and other posters here should call it out as unacceptable behavior.

It's particularly bizarre here when I've repeatedly signed on to the very opinion of Roy Moore that you have. And I've not offered one word in support of Moore.


Should Trump step down?

If Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton endorsed a child molester, would you be so equivocal?
   459. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:26 AM (#5579954)
You're lying about me and smearing my reputation by saying I support a child molester for the senate. You ought to be ashamed. But that would require that you have shame.
   460. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:29 AM (#5579955)
 459. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:26 AM (#5579954)

You're lying about me and smearing my reputation by saying I support a child molester for the senate.


454. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:16 AM (#5579946)

I believe Ray doesn't support Moore and thinks he should step down.


Who's the liar?
   461. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:33 AM (#5579956)
Obama was president for eight years. If you actually were interested in the man and his life, policies, achievements, and causes, you'd know how to spell his name.

Using the same argument that was used a few days ago re SBB's misspelling of Juanita Broaddrick.

You misspelled it four times on one page.
   462. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:34 AM (#5579957)
Anyone want to call Misirlou out on this behavior?
   463. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:38 AM (#5579958)
Obama was president for eight years. If you actually were interested in the man and his life, policies, achievements, and causes, you'd know how to spell his name.

Using the same argument that was used a few days ago re SBB's misspelling of Juanita Broaddrick.

You misspelled it four times on one page.

Anyone want to call Misirlou out on this behavior?


Misspelling Barack?
   464. dog poop god Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:47 AM (#5579961)
This is where I disagree with the stupid "#yesallmen" hashtag that wants to paint all men with the same broad brush. No, let's not do that because it's not right and it's also counter productive. If we start equating Bill Cosby with Al Franken (for example) then we've gone too far. People are out for blood right now and it's time to just take a deep breath and try and treat everybody that's been accused on a case by case basis.

Moral panic has no use for distinction.

we live in a patricharal society. You cannot convince me that if the roles were reversed, and it was men trying to break into professional fields after being relegating to having babies and domestic duties for much of history, that women would not have acted the same way. The strong get away with what they can and the weak suffer what they must, that's a fact.

C'est la vie.

The power dynamic is absolutely the crux of the behavior IMO. It's more than just sexual just like rape is more than sexual. Now, if you want to argue there are perhaps evolutionary reasons that for both men and women violence is an aphrodisiac I will listen with an open mind. I have been with a few women, not nearly as many as the good judge from Ohio, (and probably not as stunning either!) but most of them have responded quite well to what I would call "sexual aggression". One woman in particular was obsessed with how I tore her pantyhose one night and begged me to try and explain to her boyfriend six months later how she wanted to be handled in sexy times. That was really awkward, I turned down the requeest for a m,m,g threesome. Call me a prude I guess but not really my thing.

You'd better know that girl damned well, and never piss her off down the road. One unintended result of this panic will be a lot more sexually frustrated women.

None of which to say sexual harrassment ought to be dealt with forthrightly... but again, one unintended consequence is women will let a lot of things slide so as not to be party to a public execution.

Also note that while sympathizing with Tweeden's tale, I don't want Franken to suffer further consequence. We need to get back to hewing closer to the legal standard before chopping off heads and other body parts.
   465. dog poop god Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:52 AM (#5579963)
I hear Ray enables child molestors. By his own standards, it's now our duty to shun him socially.
   466. Shredder Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:52 AM (#5579964)
You misspelled it four times on one page.
Well, he probably just misspelled it once and cut and pasted it the other times because Ray completely and shamelessly refuses to answer the question. But solid attempt at deflection.
   467. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 01:06 AM (#5579968)
Well, he probably just misspelled it once and cut and pasted it the other times because Ray completely and shamelessly refuses to answer the question. But solid attempt at deflection.


Why should I have to answer some other question in order to get him to stop lying about me?

   468. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 01:13 AM (#5579970)
Why should I have to answer some other question in order to get him to stop lying about me?


454. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 12:16 AM (#5579946)

I believe Ray doesn't support Moore and thinks he should step down
   469. Barnaby Jones Posted: November 22, 2017 at 06:29 AM (#5579977)
This is the most 2nd grade page of OTP I've ever read.
   470. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 06:40 AM (#5579978)
Nun uh
   471. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: November 22, 2017 at 06:59 AM (#5579979)
This is the most 2nd grade page of OTP I've ever read.

Well it was only a matter of time, until the President dragged the rest of the country down to his level...
   472. Greg K Posted: November 22, 2017 at 07:36 AM (#5579981)
You guys have re-sparked an interest in The 100. I remember watching the first episode when it came out and thinking it was a WB-style show aiming at the teenage demographic.

Though that didn't stop Gilmore Girls from being a good show.
   473. spycake Posted: November 22, 2017 at 07:49 AM (#5579982)
Ray, I understand your stance on Moore --
but there is definitely a conflict between that and your other political statements/opinions:

Democrats in the 90s defended Bill Clinton - which means Democrats are terrible people, even to this very day, and have no standing to ever ever talk about sexual harassment.

Ray defends Trump, but hey, no big deal. Ray recognizes Trump has his own sexual history issues and just endorsed someone even more problematic than he is on the issue, but why should that reflect on Ray?
   474. spycake Posted: November 22, 2017 at 08:02 AM (#5579983)
Also, Ray, don't you also famously claim to not support or vote for nearly any politician, including Trump? Hypothetically, would you actually vote for Jones to help keep Moore out of the senate, or would you simply abstain from voting and mock liberals if they failed to win, as you have done in the past?

What's the difference between your non-support of Moore as compared to your stated "non-support" of Trump? Because the latter has effectively looked like support to many of us here.
   475. spycake Posted: November 22, 2017 at 08:13 AM (#5579984)
I absolutely love this defense. "Hey, here's a list of all the people OJ didn't murder!!!!"


That's not really the defense here, though. Franken is claiming it was a joke (albeit a bad one) and not intended the way Tweeden took it. Character references from female colleagues spanning his career don't prove anything, of course, and it was still deserving of an apology, but those references, plus the absence of any claims similar to Tweeden's, do help suggest that perhaps this was more of a case of (bad) joke failing its audience, rather than, say, the more nefarious motives that you have suggested.
   476. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 08:39 AM (#5579991)
but there is definitely a conflict between that and your other political statements/opinions:


Similarly (perhaps even more on point) -

Democrats who condemned Bill Clinton's actions, supported Hillary, and Hillary supported Bill. Bad Democrats.

Ray condemns Moore's actions and supports Trump, and Trump supports Moore. Leave Ray alone.
   477. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 08:49 AM (#5579992)
Franken is claiming it was a joke (albeit a bad one) and not intended the way Tweeden took it.


Iggy Catalpa says that humor that hurts feelings can never be truly funny.
   478. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: November 22, 2017 at 08:55 AM (#5579993)
Ray doesn't "support" Moore. Ray doesn't "support" Trump. He simply refuses to *oppose* them, while assiduously opposing anyone with a D next to their name. A lie of omission is still a lie.
   479. dog poop god Posted: November 22, 2017 at 08:55 AM (#5579995)
plus the absence of any claims similar to Tweeden's

The woman who alledges he grabbed her butt not count?
   480. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 22, 2017 at 08:55 AM (#5579996)
If anyone wants to take a break from politics for a few minutes, open this link, ignore the text if you must, but just watch the video that automatically begins. Not that the text isn't worth reading, either, but I'm sure everyone's mind is already made up about this particular subject.

Colin Kaepernick and the Legacy of the Negro National Anthem
   481. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:08 AM (#5579998)
You guys have re-sparked an interest in The 100. I remember watching the first episode when it came out and thinking it was a WB-style show aiming at the teenage demographic.


Heh - at first, I thought "What am I, Roy Moore?"
   482. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:16 AM (#5580001)
481: Heh, but of course the CW et al generally have people in their mid-20s, or older, playing teens. (Which I think distorts people's ideas of how young 14 or 15 actually looks in the real world.)
   483. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:22 AM (#5580004)
Colin Kaepernick and the Legacy of the Negro National Anthem


Hey wait a second, this isn't about "It Take 2" by Rob Base and DJ EZ Rock!
   484. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:33 AM (#5580007)
481: Heh, but of course the CW et al generally have people in their mid-20s, or older, playing teens. (Which I think distorts people's ideas of how young 14 or 15 actually looks in the real world.)


True -

One thing I very much noticed in season 2 is that the female lead - who is supposedly just shy of 18 at the start of the show (show pacing would seem to indicate that she's about 19 in season 2) shows a LOT of cleavage... Not Costanza-ish "eyes just drawn", but "oh, come on" wardrobe and framed shots.

This caused me to look up the actress and be relieved that she's 28.
   485. Hot Wheeling American Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:36 AM (#5580010)
I get peeps being frustrated with the status quo and, to a lesser extent, I guess I at least acknowledge hating liberals so much you do stupid things. But it continues to surprise me how much people debase themselves for Donald f'n Trump. The trashy dude from the world of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, who hosted and then headlined Wrestlemanias, who can't speak a coherent sentence, this is the man for whom you'll embarrass yourself? The following would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing.

Trump proves his warrior spirit by defending Moore

By Charles Hurt

At some point, every warrior eventually runs out of arrows. His armor wears thin yet grows heavier still. He must lay down his weary helmeted head for rest.

Even Coriolanus was forced to retreat — at the behest of his mother.

Not so Donald Trump.

Not a weary drop of blood pumps through the man’s veins. He wears his thick armor light as skin. His bottomless quiver is never empty.

Fearlessly, President Trump sauntered away from his wife and son into the presence of his enemies. As casually as Clint Eastwood dispatching a horse thief, Mr. Trump laid waste to the media’s carefully choreographed plot to wrest the U.S. Senate away from Republicans and somehow smear the president with an accused child molester.

Would the president throw in with Judge Moore and defend a man accused of molesting a 14-year-old girl he picked up cruising the halls of family court? Would the president place politics above honor and try some wink and a nod? Would Mr. Trump give in and torch Judge Moore so thoroughly as to ensure that Democrats get one seat closer to controlling the Senate after next month’s Alabama election?


   486. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:37 AM (#5580011)
Donald Trump's prioritization on Twitter this morning:

#1 and #2 (2:25 AM)-- LaVar Ball is an "ungrateful fool!" because "IT WAS ME" who got his son out of the Chinese pokey.

#3 (2:48 AM)-- "When will the highly paid Commissioner finally get tough and smart? This issue [kneeling] is killing your league!....."

#4 (3:51 AM)-- I'll be working hard at "the Winter White House (Mar-a-Lago)." Stock market up since Trump's "E." "Many companies coming back." Military "getting very strong."

#5 (5:00 AM)-- Prayers for the missing and recovered Navy personnel following the airplane crash in the sea of Japan.
   487. zack Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:48 AM (#5580015)
The republic isn't going to survive the tribalism and the anti-social behavior and the make your own reality engendered by the internet. None of us was socialized to act this way, and none of us act this way way off the internet

Speak for yourself, old man.
   488. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:49 AM (#5580017)
1970s teen heartthrob David Cassidy has died.
   489. spycake Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:55 AM (#5580018)
The woman who alledges he grabbed her butt not count?


Sorry, didn't mean to exclude that, it should "count" for something. Although is it really a claim "similar" to Tweeden's? Not excusing it, of course, but by itself and given its context, is it particularly relevant to Tweeden's case?
   490. Lassus Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:56 AM (#5580019)
1970s teen heartthrob David Cassidy has died.

1990s baritone heartthrob Dmitri Hvorostovsky has also died.
   491. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:57 AM (#5580020)
The republic isn't going to survive the tribalism and the anti-social behavior and the make your own reality engendered by the internet. None of us was socialized to act this way, and none of us act this way way off the internet


People act poorly on the internet. People don't act that way in real life. And this will destroy the republic how? Flame wars on the internet will bring down the US government, cause the economy to tank, and make baby Jesus sad?
   492. Lassus Posted: November 22, 2017 at 09:58 AM (#5580021)
Speak for yourself, old man.

Thank you.
   493. BDC Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:01 AM (#5580023)
I don't know how the republic survived the tribalism and parochialism and blinkered perspectives of pre-internet days.
   494. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:02 AM (#5580024)
   495. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:04 AM (#5580025)
I don't know how the republic survived the tribalism and parochialism and blinkered perspectives of pre-internet days.


With gumption. Today, America's strategic stockpile of gumption is at an all-time low.
   496. Howie Menckel Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:05 AM (#5580026)
breaking: Bob Dylan has his voice back! (wisecrack here)

I saw him 6-8 years ago, and he was in full tracheotomy-sound mode. but caught him at The Beacon Theater last night. comeback of the decade.

his 1-hour, 45-minute set isn't for all his fans - he's not going to sing "Like a Rolling Stone" or try to replicate the sound of a 50-year-old song from an album. he also sings a half-dozen standards - which are his true love (two Sinatras, plus "Autumn Leaves" etc).

the band is tremendous, and while 76-year-old Bob didn't play guitar or harmonica, he played a pretty mean keyboard. for the standards, he picks up the microphone stand and tilts it sideways like something out of the 1940s. he played a few of his old hits in halfway-recognizable fashion - and others far, far from that. "Desolation Row" works no matter the version.

this is the 3rd time I've seen him play at his old Manhattan borough stomping grounds, and frankly I think he saves his best for these shows (so fair warning).

oh, 78-year-old Mavis Staples (who had a fling with Bob more than 50 years ago, no kidding) KILLED in her 45-minute opener. "I'll Take You There" - yeah, she took the whole crowd there. her new album "If All I Was Was Black" was just released, and I may get it. songs about love, friendship, loyalty, and determination - not a bad time these days to get healed!


set list for both is here
   497. Morty Causa Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:06 AM (#5580027)
But Al "The Mad Hungarian" Hrabosky still lives and seethes, right?
   498. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:06 AM (#5580028)
Ray doesn't "support" Moore. Ray doesn't "support" Trump. He simply refuses to *oppose* them, while assiduously opposing anyone with a D next to their name...


Ray doesn't "support" Moore. Ray doesn't "support" Trump. He simply refuses to *oppose* them, while assiduously opposing anyone with a D next to their name who does.
   499. The Good Face Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:07 AM (#5580029)
At the risk of pissing off TGF or perros yes, it's obvious, (and has this last month's worth of tales of men behaving badly not utterly confirmed it once and for all?) we live in a patricharal society.


Huh? Of course we live in a patriarchal society. Patriarchy is an inextricable element of civilization.

The republic isn't going to survive the tribalism and the anti-social behavior and the make your own reality engendered by the internet. None of us was socialized to act this way, and none of us act this way way off the internet


Here you go.
   500. Greg K Posted: November 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5580032)
It's probably not possible to quantify in any way, but if you combine the importance of social media to Trump's campaign and presidency, and the sense I get that many Trump supporters are looking to stick it to smug liberals with their votes, I'm not sure online discussion plays no role in the politics of 2016.

Political discourse is in some way shaped by the medium it takes place in. Just look at how printing radically changed how politics worked. I'm less familiar with television or radio, but I'm sure there has been plenty of work on how they changed the nature of politics too.

As much as people have always argued about politics, and what we're doing here (and more importantly what is going on in the world of facebook and twitter) isn't reinventing the wheel of political debate, I think politics works differently now. Pretty soon we might have a whole generation of adults whose only experience with politics is facebook comment thread flame wars.

What influence that will have on society, I have no idea.
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