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Monday, September 25, 2017

OTP 25 September 2017: CC Sabathia won’t visit the White House if the Yankees win the World Series

Ballplayers, however, will likely continue to speak up. The latest: Yankees starter CC Sabathia, who was asked yesterday whether he would visit the White House if the playoff-bound Yankees won the World Series. From the Daily News:

“Never. I just don’t believe in anything that is Trump. So there wouldn’t be any reason for me to go at all. I just think it’s stupid. I just think it’s dumb that he’s addressing players and stuff that he shouldn’t be. But it is what it is, and that’s the country we live in these days . . . I’m proud of the way that everybody has Steph’s back and just athletes in general these days, the way everybody has been stepping up has been great.”

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 07:41 AM | 1989 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cc sabathia, politics, yankees

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   201. BrianBrianson Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5538496)
A frivolous argument. This borders on "When police commit brutality against black suspects the police are RESPECTING the black suspects!!! Not in the way you would, but in a different way!"

Really, now. Stop arguing against what is.


If you'd stop lying about what's going on Ray, we wouldn't have to argue about what's going on. Kneelers aren't disrespecting the anthem or America, cops who're shooting unarmed people are disrespecting America (and by extension, the anthem). That you don't like being reminded you support the ability of cops to shoot unarmed people without consequence is your own problem, not the problem of those people who don't support that.
   202. The Good Face Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:30 PM (#5538497)
But maybe make a bit of an effort not to be quite so much of a dick.


Hey dick! Yeah, you, the guy who's always acting like such a dick! Why can't you stop being such a fucking dick and pay attention to ME and what I have to say? Answer my insulting questions in the way I insist you answer them instead of being such a dick all the time! Oh, you won't do what I want and how I want you to do it? Well fuck you dick, that's why nobody likes dicks like you.
   203. PepTech Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:35 PM (#5538500)
Hey dick! Yeah, you, the guy who's always acting like such a dick! Why can't you stop being such a ####### dick and pay attention to ME and what I have to say? Answer my insulting questions in the way I insist you answer them instead of being such a dick all the time! Oh, you won't do what I want and how I want you to do it? Well #### you dick, that's why nobody likes dicks like you.
Concession accepted.
   204. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:36 PM (#5538502)
What is the intent of the tradition? To disrespect the star spangled banner or not? That might provide a clue to your mystery.
Not really, no. Not sure why you think intent is dispositive.

At a funeral for your family member, someone is giving the eulogy. One of the guests:

(a) calls out, "That heartwarming story about him is a lie! He was a crook and a monster! Glad he's dead! He sucked!"
(b) answers a phone call from his girlfriend and has a loud conversation about her about their weekend getaway plans.

Only the first intended to be disrespectful, but both, of course, were disrespectful.
   205. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:37 PM (#5538503)
No. You're doing it again.


Close; it's actually "you're doing that thing again."

Same concept, though.
   206. Lassus Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:38 PM (#5538504)
William Billings' "Chester" is a way better anthem. I mean, it's no "Lamentation over Boston", but that one is probably just too long and not martial enough.
   207. Morty Causa Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:38 PM (#5538505)
It isn't just BBQ. People do that with gumbo, etoufees, creoles, pizzas--you name it. It's as if that if doesn't fall under your particular rubric for a dish, it can't be good. Hey, I said to start with that a) I didn't think smokers were BBQ, and b) that didn't mean it wasn't good if it wasn't true BBQ. Same thing. As a Cajun from the provinces, I at aone time didn't consider Creole New Orleans okra non-roux based gumbo to be the real gumbo of Acadiana, but that shouldn't mean I can't say it's good food.
   208. PepTech Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:41 PM (#5538508)
Only the first intended to be disrespectful,
How do you know? Was he kneeling when he said it? ;)
   209. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:44 PM (#5538510)
128

You owe me a drink for #64, Andy...

One White Russian coming right up.....


Da, comrade...
   210. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:44 PM (#5538511)
it is a perfectly valid opinion that indifference to the anthem is far more disrespecttful than a peaceful, respectful, protest.


??

Me sitting down while the anthem plays while I watch a sporting event on TV is "indifference"?

That ... doesn't seem right.

Honestly, the whole anthem thing has just become ridiculous. On both sides. It's just a song, and not particularly a good one. There's no need whatever that it be played at sporting events -- and isn't played at a lot. I played high school basketball. There was a junior varsity game, and then a varsity game. They didn't play it before the JV game, they did play it before our games. Was the JV game somehow less consecrated or valid?

It kind of became kind of a cool thing as a ritual to get the fans ready for the game and that's still far and away its most important function. It works particularly well at NHL playoff games, for example. The organ, the microphone, the booming voice, the electricity, the standing and kind of tapping your feet in anticipation ... stellar. When O Canada is also part of the ritual? Magnifique.

But, no, we can't have normal, nice things and a bunch of bullshit has to formulate itself around it. And now what were serious and valid protests have become yet another version of #notmypresident Saturday protest brunches. The ####?
   211. Lassus Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:50 PM (#5538515)
And now what were serious and valid protests have become yet another version of #notmypresident Saturday protest brunches.

Because your anti-modern-liberal hero is a ten-year-old and wanted to involve himself.
   212. BrianBrianson Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:51 PM (#5538518)
Indeed, getting anthems out of sports (excepting like, the olympics, or whatnot) would be the kind of thing you'd think could get overwhelming bipartisan support.

People are constantly kvetching games are too long. Removing the anthem would knock ~5 minutes off.
   213. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:52 PM (#5538519)
Although I must say that it's high humor to watch "liberals" line up foursquare behind Roger Goodell, the NFL owners, and NFL culture. Quite humorous indeed.
   214. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:52 PM (#5538520)
Me sitting down while the anthem plays while I watch a sporting event on TV is "indifference"?


*sigh*

First of all, yes it is. It's kind of the definition of indifference. But that wasn't the point of the comment. While I did ask Ray about his habits while watching at home, my comment you quoted was not about watching at home, but in reference to Ray saying he has no problem with a guy getting up to go get a snack during the anthem. That is most definitely indifference.

Anthem starts, "Time to go get a beer." Perfectly OK. Anthem starts, kneel down put you hand over your heart and look at the flag. FIRED!!

It's an odd position, but then Ray is an odd person.
   215. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:54 PM (#5538524)
First of all, yes it is. It's kind of the definition of indifference.


Uh, no. It's the human definition. I'm watching them play the anthem. I'm just not standing up with my cap removed. I'm no more "indifferent" to it than when I'm at the game, standing, cap removed under severe duress.

I mean, honestly -- if someone leaves his hat on while the anthem plays, he's disrespecting cops and the military? LOL, emoji, LOL.

   216. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:55 PM (#5538525)
Although I must say that it's high humor to watch "liberals" line up foursquare behind Roger Goodell, the NFL owners, and NFL culture.

Those 1%'ers are OK when they're acting like a two-year-old who doesn't get to watch Sponge Bob before nappy-nap time because a Republican is President.
   217. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5538527)
The tune was written as a theme song in an 18th-century amateur musician men's club in Britain, who barely managed any professional composers of note up until then or much after, never mind what amateurs were doing.


Ain't that America?
   218. BrianBrianson Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5538529)
Although I must say that it's high humor to watch "liberals" line up foursquare behind Roger Goodell, the NFL owners, and NFL culture. Quite humorous indeed.


It's as though some people have actual politics, and some people just get their talking points from their idols.
   219. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:59 PM (#5538531)
No. You're doing it again. My argument has been consistent and unchanging since I first made it. I have not admitted you were right, I have not changed my position. I may have rephrased it several times in a futile attempt to get you to understand and stop misrepresenting it, but I haven't changed it.


Funny stuff dude. If you keep asserting the same things over and over again I am sure it will work. Keep going.

This is BM's thing. I had to have exactly the same type of conversation with him last week, affirming for the record that I had not changed my position, despite him claiming that I had.


This is a misstatement. I stated he had stopped defending something. He said "Nope" and I conceded he was correct and I apologized. Now what he was defending was so dumb as to beyond belief, which is why I mistakenly thought he had abandoned it. But no he wanted to stick with the belief that there were dis-economies of scale in providing health care and thus the best comparisons for the US health care system were China, India, Indonesia, and such countries (rather than France, Germany and other countries).

An argument so stupid I felt sure it was a mistake and even Ray would move on, but here he is again doubling down on it (in a manner of speaking). Sadly - to bring it full circle - Ray still has not provided a single shred of evidence for that or for his assertion that the French health care system was terrible and the US system was great (even though the only evidence submitted on the subject strongly suggested France had a better health care system than the US one).

So in fact when I am wrong - as I was with Ray and his defense of a ridiculous assertion he made - I corrected myself and apologized. Sadly that is not the part Ray remembers.
   220. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 02:59 PM (#5538532)
I'm no more "indifferent" to it than when I'm at the game, standing, cap removed under severe duress.


You poor baby. What do they do, threaten you with bamboo shoots under your fingernails? Maybe if you weren't such a chickenshit, you would leave you hat on.
   221. Srul Itza Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:00 PM (#5538535)
I find sitting for the anthem to be disrespectful and distasteful.


I find anthems to be distasteful, since they normally have militaristic overtones that I do not necessarily agree with. The US Anthem in particular.

I can love my country without caring a great deal for anthems.

Although, to the extent disrespecting the anthem upsets some people, they are mostly people I like to see upset. With any luck, it will result in elevated blood pressure and general agita, perhaps even helping to bring about an earlier demise.

Not that I would wish that on anyone in particular in this thread . . .
   222. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:00 PM (#5538536)
If you'd stop lying about what's going on Ray, we wouldn't have to argue about what's going on. Kneelers aren't disrespecting the anthem or America, cops who're shooting unarmed people are disrespecting America (and by extension, the anthem). That you don't like being reminded you support the ability of cops to shoot unarmed people without consequence is your own problem, not the problem of those people who don't support that.


First off, in many cases the victims are armed.
   223. PepTech Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:03 PM (#5538541)
I'm no more "indifferent" to it than when I'm at the game, standing, cap removed under severe duress.

I mean, honestly -- if someone leaves his hat on while the anthem plays, he's disrespecting cops and the military? LOL, emoji, LOL.
We'll need to consult Ray on that. Ray, Bear thinks that removing one's hat during the anthem is pointless. What do you think?
   224. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:04 PM (#5538542)
So, does the Baltimore tradition of yelling "O!" during the SSB¹ count as respecting it or disrespecting it?

Neither, but when it's yelled before O's road games, it might be seen as disrespecting the other team. I remember some Nats fans getting all hot and bothered when they heard those chants at Nationals Park.
   225. Srul Itza Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:04 PM (#5538543)
The sheer breadth of the anti-Moore campaign


As between Strange and Moore, is there any doubt that the actual floor votes would be almost identical in all respects, vis-a-vis right wing conformity?

I am hoping that Moore gets elected. It will not change the balance of power, and he will not be very effective since he does not have a tendency to work and play well with others. And having a unreasonable yahoo like that will undoubtedly be entertaining, and will almost certainly provoke endless rounds of other Senators being asked to disavow this or that homophobic or otherwise over the top comment.
   226. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:04 PM (#5538544)
Maybe if you weren't such a chickenshit, you would leave you hat on.


I have, and I plan on doing it again. If I make it to NYS this year, I'm leaving it on both for the anthem and for the satirically absurd God Bless America ritual after the top half of the 7th.

But LOL to the idea that some of the people who take them off aren't doing so under duress.
   227. BrianBrianson Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:04 PM (#5538545)
First off, in many cases the victims are armed.


In literally zero of the cases where police shoot unarmed people without consequence are the victims armed. It's a tautology, Ray.
   228. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:04 PM (#5538546)
But, no, we can't have normal, nice things and a bunch of bullshit has to formulate itself around it. And now what were serious and valid protests have become yet another version of #notmypresident Saturday protest brunches. The ####?


You have to laugh, though. They're protesting the dictator by... kneeling before said dictator.

Marketing 101 might have something to say about that.
   229. Srul Itza Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:05 PM (#5538547)
Is there any more Ray comment than this?


Catcher throwing lanes.

   230. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:05 PM (#5538548)
I am hoping that Moore gets elected. It will not change the balance of power, and he will not be very effective since he does not have a tendency to work and play well with others. And having a unreasonable yahoo like that will undoubtedly be entertaining, and will almost certainly provoke endless rounds of other Senators being asked to disavow this or that homophobic or otherwise over the top comment.


Yeah the popcorn factor is MUCH higher with Moore.
   231. PepTech Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:09 PM (#5538549)
If you'd stop lying about what's going on Ray, we wouldn't have to argue about what's going on. Kneelers aren't disrespecting the anthem or America, cops who're shooting unarmed people are disrespecting America (and by extension, the anthem). That you don't like being reminded you support the ability of cops to shoot unarmed people without consequence is your own problem, not the problem of those people who don't support that.

First off, in many cases the victims are armed.
Which implies that some aren't, and that you're supporting those incidents. What is your acceptable threshold of unarmed deaths in the service of your right to complain about taxation?

At some point most brains would explode trying to justify these lines of logic.
   232. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:09 PM (#5538551)
You have to laugh, though. They're protesting the dictator by... kneeling before said dictator.


So the assumption chain here is ...

1) The protests are aimed at GOP President Trump.
2) The protestors think that GOP President Trump is a dictator (despite the fact he ... well isn't).
3) The protestors are kneeling before the (not a) Dictator who is not even present (so they are not kneeling before him).
4) And this is dumb because dictators demand to have people kneel before them so they are giving Trump what he wants, even though Trump is angry they are kneeling.

That is ... never mind. Sure Ray. In your scenario it is the protestors that are laughable.
   233. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5538552)
At some point most brains would explode trying to justify these lines of logic.


It's not hard. "Taxation is irrelevant to the issue; moving on" is quite simple.
   234. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5538553)
I have, and I plan on doing it again. If I make it to NYS this year, I'm leaving it on both for the anthem and for the satirically absurd God Bless America ritual after the top half of the 7th.


Bring your stretchy band for protection. Just in case.
   235. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:11 PM (#5538555)
So the assumption chain here is ...

1) The protests are aimed at GOP President Trump.


Classic BM. "Prove that water is wet!!"
   236. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:12 PM (#5538556)
Bring your stretchy band for protection. Just in case.


Don't need it, thanks.
   237. TDF, FCL Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:12 PM (#5538557)
From Twitter: Since “disrespecting the flag” is still the narrative being used, this courtesy of the US Flag Code Chapter 10: Respect for flag Also from Twitter: "Thinking NFL players are 'protesting the flag' is like thinking Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation"
   238. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:14 PM (#5538558)
Since people earlier drew silly conclusions from the weekend's NFL ratings you can draw another silly conclusion in the other direction:

Ratings tumble: NFL's Sunday Night Football sees an eight percent decline in viewers following a weekend of criticism from President Donald Trump

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4918784/NFL-Sunday-Night-Football-ratings-dip-Trump-s-attack.html#ixzz4tifrwRQY
   239. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:15 PM (#5538559)
.
   240. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:18 PM (#5538561)
I am hoping that Moore gets elected. It will not change the balance of power, and he will not be very effective since he does not have a tendency to work and play well with others. And having a unreasonable yahoo like that will undoubtedly be entertaining, and will almost certainly provoke endless rounds of other Senators being asked to disavow this or that homophobic or otherwise over the top comment.


Yeah the popcorn factor is MUCH higher with Moore.


Is there a chance Paul LePage might want to run for the Senate?
   241. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:20 PM (#5538562)
As between Strange and Moore, is there any doubt that the actual floor votes would be almost identical in all respects, vis-a-vis right wing conformity?

Other than in surface manners, how is Moore any different than Jeff Sessions?

I am hoping that Moore gets elected. It will not change the balance of power, and he will not be very effective since he does not have a tendency to work and play well with others. And having a unreasonable yahoo like that will undoubtedly be entertaining, and will almost certainly provoke endless rounds of other Senators being asked to disavow this or that homophobic or otherwise over the top comment.

How could any Democrat not root for Moore in the primary? They're both Trump sycophants, but Moore is far more entertaining,** and there may even be a 10% chance that he'll say something so gross during the general election campaign that Doug Jones might stage a monumental upset.

** EDIT: Though not as entertaining as watching Judge and Sanchez just go back-to-back, as Judge smashes McGwire's rookie record.

   242. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:21 PM (#5538564)
Classic BM. "Prove that water is wet!!"


????

I was describing the chain of logic needed for your assertion to make any sense. If you think your whole assertion is equal to "Water = wet" well ... I guess much is explained.

In any event, nice non-responsive post. Well done.
   243. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5538570)
Again, the anthem - and the flag - are special symbols with particular meanings.


Someone might want to take a hard look at the third verse of that song. Francis Scott Key was a virulent, ugly man.
   244. BrianBrianson Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5538571)
Pretty much, Ray doesn't have political opinions or ideas of his own. Since he's playing a simple "us" vs. "them" arguing game, he can't imagine that someone else might have something they'd actually want to accomplish. Trump is his God-King, so how could anyone on the "left" have any opinion or action that isn't a shot at Trump?
   245. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5538573)
Ratings tumble: NFL's Sunday Night Football sees an eight percent decline in viewers following a weekend of criticism from President Donald Trump


Maybe they were watching that Ken Burns Vietnam documentary, or The Deuce.
   246. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:29 PM (#5538577)
Francis Scott Key was a virulent, ugly man.

Takes one to know one.
   247. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:30 PM (#5538578)
And now what were serious and valid protests have become yet another version of #notmypresident Saturday protest brunches.


This isn't quite right. Kaep's original protests were clearly defined and specific to police brutality and the BLM movement. Yesterday's much larger protests were in response to a sitting president telling a citizen to sit down and shut up if he knows what's good for him. It's not that they're doing "#notmypresident Saturday protest brunches." They're saying "while I did not personally feel the need to join the few who knelt in solidarity with Black Lives Matters regarding brutality in our streets, I do find the actions of the president to be so far out of bounds that I feel the need to join those who did, in solidarity with THEM." And that is, of course, a 100% valid point of view.
   248. Lassus Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5538582)
I have, and I plan on doing it again. If I make it to NYS this year, I'm leaving it on both for the anthem and for the satirically absurd God Bless America ritual after the top half of the 7th.

Weak sauce. You really want to make a statement, you need to also bellow out a couple verses of the original lyrics:

TO ANACREON IN HEAVEN
To Anacreon in Heav'n, where he sat in full Glee,
A few Sons of Harmony sent a Petition,
That he their Inspirer and Patron would be;
When this answer arriv'd from the Jolly Old Grecian
"Voice, Fiddle, and Flute,
"no longer be mute,
"I'll lend you my Name and inspire you to boot,
"And, besides I'll instruct you, like me, to intwine
"The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine."

The news through Olympus immediately flew;
When Old Thunder pretended to give himself Airs.
"If these Mortals are suffer'd their Scheme to persue,
"The Devil a Goddess will stay above Stairs.
"Hark! already they cry,
"In transports of Joy,
"Away to the Sons of Anacreon we'll fly,
"And there, with good Fellows, we'll learn to intwine
"The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine.

"The Yellow-Hair'd God and his nine fusty Maids,
"From Helicon's banks will incontinent flee,
"Idalia will boast but of tenantless Shades,
"And the bi-forked Hill a mere Desart will be
"My Thunder no fear on't,
"Shall soon do it's Errand,
"And dam'me! I'll swinge the Ringleaders, I warrant.
"I'll trim the young Dogs, for thus daring to twine
"The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine."

Apollo rose up, and said, "Pry'thee ne'er quarrel,
"Good King of the Gods, with my Vot'ries below:
"Your Thunder is useless"—then shewing his Laurel,
Cry'd "Sic evitabile fulmen, you know!
"Then over each head"
My Laurels I'll spread;
"So my Sons from your Crackers no Mischief shall dread,
"Whilst snug in their Club-Room, they jovially twine
"The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine."

Next Momus got up with his risible Phiz,
And swore with Apollo he'd chearfully join—
"The full Tide of Harmony still shall be his,
"But the Song, and the Catch, and the Laugh shall be mine.
"Then, Jove, be not jealous
"Of these honest fellows.
"Cry'd Jove, "We relent, since the Truth you now tell us;
"And swear by Old Styx, that they long shall intwine
"The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine."

Ye Sons of Anacreon, then join Hand in Hand;
Preserve Unanimity, Friendship, and Love!
'Tis your's to support what's so happily plann'd;
You've the sanction of Gods, and the Fiat of Jove.
While thus we agree,
Our Toast let it be.
May our Club flourish happy, united, and free!
And long may the Sons of Anacreon intwine
The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine.
   249. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5538583)
Maybe they were watching that Ken Burns Vietnam documentary, or The Deuce.


Maybe a rematch of last year's NFC Championship game was more interesting than the Raiders visiting DC.
   250. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:40 PM (#5538589)
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4918784/NFL-Sunday-Night-Football-ratings-dip-Trump-s-attack.html#ixzz4tifrwRQY


Who the hell gets their NFL news from the Daily Mail UK?!
   251. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:46 PM (#5538593)
Yesterday's much larger protests were in response to a sitting president telling a citizen to sit down and shut up if he knows what's good for him.


And the protesters... complied!

The visual there isn't quite a good look.
   252. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5538596)
Someone might want to take a hard look at the third verse of that song. Francis Scott Key was a virulent, ugly man.
No, he wasn't. You're not misinterpreting the "slave" line, are you?
   253. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:51 PM (#5538599)
And the protesters... complied!


So now you think GOP President Trump was successful and everyone went along with his desires? OK then.
   254. PreservedFish Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:51 PM (#5538601)

How could any Democrat not root for Moore in the primary? They're both Trump sycophants, but Moore is far more entertaining,** and there may even be a 10% chance that he'll say something so gross during the general election campaign that Doug Jones might stage a monumental upset.


This is how you get Donald Trump as president. Is one of them not a nutjob? That's the guy I'll root for.
   255. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:52 PM (#5538602)
In literally zero of the cases where police shoot unarmed people without consequence are the victims armed. It's a tautology, Ray.


Well, there was that one guy who was shot because he told the cop he had a gun in the glovebox, as he was required to do by law.
   256. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:52 PM (#5538603)
No, he wasn't.


I'll need some evidence here. From what I've read, he was pretty much as bad a racist and white supremacist as you could get even for a "man of his time." And I'm interpreting that final stanza to be a #### taken on the escaped slave unit that fought and destroyed Key's American unit in the Revolutionary War. I'm open to more information if you have it.
   257. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:52 PM (#5538604)
Some of us just don't like pro football anymore. Pacing, (not to be confused as length of games as college is longer and it doesn't bother me, commercials, insane replay rulings (also infecting college), sameness of the offense, sterile environs. I've noticed my own viewing has nose dived considerably, limited to only social gatherings in which a game is on. Full disclosure: I still watch way too much college football, though even that has slowed, and recognize I'm not the 'average fan'.
   258. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:53 PM (#5538605)
This isn't quite right. Kaep's original protests were clearly defined and specific to police brutality and the BLM movement. Yesterday's much larger protests were in response to a sitting president telling a citizen to sit down and shut up if he knows what's good for him. It's not that they're doing "#notmypresident Saturday protest brunches." They're saying "while I did not personally feel the need to join the few who knelt in solidarity with Black Lives Matters regarding brutality in our streets, I do find the actions of the president to be so far out of bounds that I feel the need to join those who did, in solidarity with THEM." And that is, of course, a 100% valid point of view.
Right. I generally agree with Kaepernick about police brutality (though I think it a mistake to racialize the debate) and disagree with Kaepernick about the U.S. in general and most everything else (people complaining about police brutality and racism probably shouldn't be celebrating Fidel Castro), but I disagree in the entirety with Trump and the other people whining about his kneeling (let's call them "Trumpistas" for short), and I'd be inclined to kneel myself to show solidarity with him against Trump/Trumpistas.
   259. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:53 PM (#5538606)
And the protesters... complied!

The visual there isn't quite a good look.


Wait. What? I honestly have not idea what you're trying to say here, Raymond.
   260. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:55 PM (#5538609)
Some of us just don't like pro football anymore. Pacing, (not to be confused as length of games as college is longer and it doesn't bother me, commercials, insane replay rulings (also infecting college), sameness of the offense, sterile environs. I've noticed my own viewing has nose dived considerably, limited to only social gatherings in which a game is on. Full disclosure: I still watch way too much college football, though even that has slowed, and recognize I'm not the 'average fan'.


Yesterday was a pretty near perfect "football" day for me, personally. I watched the Falcons win (kind of?) on the 1PM Fox ticket, then just stayed there to watch United beat Montreal on the second half of Fox's "MLS doubleheader." Then we toyed with the idea of watching "Discovery" but both decided to kill the noise box and read until bed.
   261. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5538611)
This is how you get Donald Trump as president. Is one of them not a nutjob? That's the guy I'll root for.


Well .... that is not really how we got Trump as President. In political races where I have no ability to meaningfully influence the outcome and where the outcome likely doesn't matter much I think it is OK to cheer for the more entertaining option.

The policy differences between Moore and Strange from a liberal perspective is pretty low. Plus Moore give the Democrats a tiny chance to take the election. And Moore will be way more entertaining.

And I still think Trump is a better outcome than GOP President Cruz.
   262. simpleton & childlike gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5538614)
I took a knee just a couple of hours ago here at work. Of course, I was picking an errant Garden Veggie Straw off the carpet. But still.
   263. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 03:58 PM (#5538618)
Then we toyed with the idea of watching "Discovery"


Even adjusting for the fact that pilots are almost universally terrible, it was a shitshow. I have no interest in watching further, even if it were free. Since when are Klingons slimy hairless lizard people?
   264. Lassus Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:10 PM (#5538625)
Even adjusting for the fact that pilots are almost universally terrible, it was a shitshow.

I am actually surprised with all the reported production insanity that this is definitely not the universal review at this point. You're a bit of an outlier. Vulture and io9 have much more positive reviews.

That being said, I hate prequels generally; and more specifically the concept of a STAR TREK one is especially galling, when going forward beyond TNG and DS9 would be way, way, way cooler, so I probably won't watch.

BUT - I've heard good/decent things.
   265. dlf Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:13 PM (#5538629)
As between Strange and Moore, is there any doubt that the actual floor votes would be almost identical in all respects, vis-a-vis right wing conformity?

Other than in surface manners, how is Moore any different than Jeff Sessions?


Andy ~ You have proven time and again that you have no idea what a mainline conservative Senator is or how Jeff Sessions fit into that role for several decades. Your hate for him is plain to see. But the fact is that there is a wealth of difference between someone who strongly believes in the rule of law and the enforcement of the status quo versus someone who doesn't believe in the sovereignty of civil law, wants to enshrine his own version of Sharia law, and advocates for a functional disorder to public discourse. That fundamental misunderstanding of Sessions says more about you than it does about him.

I am hoping that Moore gets elected.


Srul ~ The election of religious demagogues is never a good thing. Never. It isn't entertaining to see this great country turn to hatred and bigotry, instead of inclusion and diversity. It is literally a crying shame. Roy Moore shouldn't be given a platform to spew his hate as it degrades the public forums and he & his ideas* should be relegated to the dustbin of history.

*In one of his published decisions while on the Supreme Court, he found that a father who had been convicted of various counts pertaining to domestic violence against his spouse should be awarded sole custody of the minor children; the only reason given was that the mother was a lesbian in a long-term monogamous relationship. This is but one example.

   266. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:14 PM (#5538631)
That being said, I hate prequels, a lot, so I probably won't watch. But I've heard good things.


Way too much CGI for my tastes, to the point where it was more cartoon than live action. It was the JJ Abrham's Star Trek vision on streoids. Apparently a lot of people like that, but I prefer Trek more for the drama and story than for the spectacle.

And I could not get past the lizard people Klingons.
   267. Lassus Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:15 PM (#5538633)
Well .... that is not really how we got Trump as President. In political races where I have no ability to meaningfully influence the outcome and where the outcome likely doesn't matter much I think it is OK to cheer for the more entertaining option.

No. PF (and dlf) is right, and you are wrong. I don't need fucking entertainment from people in power, I need intelligence and humanity.
   268. Covfefe Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:17 PM (#5538634)
Then we toyed with the idea of watching "Discovery"


Even adjusting for the fact that pilots are almost universally terrible, it was a shitshow. I have no interest in watching further, even if it were free. Since when are Klingons slimy hairless lizard people?


Meh.... it was a BSG Reimagification of ST... and it sure as hell beats what JJ Abrams did to the franchise.

That said, the chances that CBS gets 10 bucks a month from me in order to watch it in real-time is nil... eventually, I'm sure one of the other services will have it (I think Netfilx already has a deal to include it after some period of time lapses).

I mean, if HBO had nothing but Game of Thrones - I wouldn't pay 10 a month for it, either... I suppose I have no idea what other stuff CBS's streaming service includes, but I really cannot imagine there's enough there to match HBO's rotation of movies, plus 5 to 10 other series (both still running and old... i.e., I occasionally binge a little Sopranos still) to justify the subscription.
   269. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:23 PM (#5538638)
No. PF (and dlf) is right, and you are wrong. I don't need ####### entertainment from people in power, I need intelligence and humanity.


And you need for the president to agree with you and yours.
   270. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:27 PM (#5538642)

No. PF (and dlf) is right, and you are wrong. I don't need ####### entertainment from people in power, I need intelligence and humanity.

Thank you.
   271. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:27 PM (#5538643)
it was a BSG Reimagification of ST


Battlestar Galactica?
   272. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:29 PM (#5538644)
Battlestar Galactica?


Yes.
   273. BrianBrianson Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:30 PM (#5538645)
And you need for the president to agree with you and yours.


Wait, is "You want the President to do things you think are good, and not do things you think are bad" supposed to be a dig?
   274. Lassus Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5538647)
Thank you.

Fuck you, Trumpian bozo.
   275. simon bedford Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5538648)
Sam
Keys was born in 1779 so I am pretty sure that as desperate as the rebel/terrorist/colonials were, they did not in fact give him command of a unit.
His unit that got its ass kicked was during the war of 1812 , and the unit doing the kicking was the 'colonial marines' and the song was written after the fort mchenry battle of 1814 (another glorious win for Canada/mercenaries/free slaves/British vs the upstart yankees) .

edit i got my forts mixed up
   276. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5538649)
Yes.


OK, but Trek already did that with TNG and the rest. And had 4 shows and 24 seasons of the same vision. What purpose does re-imaging again, now, in a universe purported to be in continuity of the other show's timelines?

edit: 25 seasons
   277. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:40 PM (#5538653)
Wait, is "You want the President to do things you think are good, and not do things you think are bad" supposed to be a dig?


Reading is fundamental. I was pointing out that nobody is satisfied with a president who merely has intelligence and humanity; they want the president to agree with them.
   278. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5538654)
I didn't give you Trump, it's the bozos in your bleachers that gave us Trump, those who tune in every day to the reality tv that is the Trump Presidency to yuck it up and enjoy popcorn.

But hey, be miserable.
   279. Covfefe Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5538659)
OK, but Trek already did that with TNG and the rest. And had 4 shows and 24 seasons of the same vision. What purpose does re-imaging again, now, in a universe purported to be in continuity of the other show's timelines?


Oh - I don't think that's the case...

The BSG reimaging completely changed the tone and atmosphere of the original (very, very, very much for the better -- for pure 'quality TV' set in a sci-fi universe (space opera subset, I guess) -- nothing tops the new BSG).

TNG, I thought, still maintained the tone and atmosphere of the TOS -- just updated for a new era.

DIS (can I coin that?) seems to have a wholly different tone/atmosphere from TOS, TNG - even VOY and ENT... I suppose you could say that DS9 already sorta did that.
   280. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5538660)
No. PF (and dlf) is right, and you are wrong. I don't need ####### entertainment from people in power, I need intelligence and humanity.


From a policy perspective sure. From a political perspective I want my enemies to be incompetent while exercising their "evil" schemes. (Note the scare quotes, I am not calling Trump or the GOP evil). I would rather have Col. Klink running the show than someone competent, if their designs are terrible policy (which 99% of the GOP policies are).

Put another way President Cruz would have many more accomplishments than President Trump has and his accomplishments would be really bad - I suspect ACA could have been repealed under his watch, mostly because he wouldn't be sabotaging everything in sight, but instead would be working smartly and in a disciplined manner to repeal ACA.

I get you guys are ultra-invested in "Trump is so incompetent nuclear war could start any second" but I doubt it. I think the US will survive GOP President Trump and I think him being in power and comically terrible will help us dig out from whatever messes he does create.
   281. Covfefe Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:50 PM (#5538661)
Reading is fundamental. I was pointing out that nobody is satisfied with a president who merely has intelligence and humanity; they want the president to agree with them.


Yes, in the same way that people would like their food that provides sustenance to also meet taste predilections.

Trump provides no sustenance or nutrition AND tastes like ####.

   282. PepTech Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5538664)
Reading is fundamental. I was pointing out that nobody is satisfied with a president who merely has intelligence and humanity; they want the president to agree with them.
I'm fine with any president who displays intelligence and humanity. My criticisms of Trump revolve around his lack of either quality.

That's not entirely fair; he isn't stupid. He's ignorant of many things, which is not a crime. He is completely unaware of his limitations, which isn't a crime either, but should be disqualifying when considering the Leader of The Free World.

And I suppose Trump has an overabundance of many of the (deplorable) qualities of "humanity", as long as one is willing to define one's own terms.
   283. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:51 PM (#5538665)
However, I will back down in this respect - having Trump as President is really and unacceptably bad for Puerto Rico. There is an unfolding disaster happening there and the Idiot in Chief doesn't seem to care in the slightest that American Citizens are suffering.

I suspect any other President with even a modicum of intelligence and humanity (even Cruz) would have long since tried to rally the rest of the nation to help them out.

So I will concede that much, at least, even as I note that my cheering for partisan gains doesn't actually impact reality and no matter who I cheer to get elected it will still be President Trump and likely Senator Moore (so I might as well find a silver lining rather than rend my garments on a daily basis).
   284. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:53 PM (#5538666)
I get you guys are ultra-invested in "Trump is so incompetent nuclear war could start any second" but I doubt it.


They're actually ultra-invested in their moral preening. They're so much Better People than the Trumpistas.

That was Hillary Clinton's Washington gaffe re the deplorables.

But what burns them is that on November 8, 2016 they learned that everything they knew about the world was wrong. They weren't the so-called Experts they presented themselves as. And they've been reeling ever since.

   285. Hysterical & Useless Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5538667)
(so I might as well find a silver lining rather than rend my garments on a daily basis


But then you can buy new garments. And if you Buy American you'll be helping your fellow citizens. Sounds like a win!
   286. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5538668)
However, I will back down in this respect - having Trump as President is really really and unacceptably bad for Puerto Rico. There is an unfolding disaster happening there
Made far worse by an execrable protectionist law from a century ago that keeps most ships from helping the island out.
   287. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5538669)
The BSG reimaging completely changed the tone and atmosphere of the original (very, very, very much for the better -- for pure 'quality TV' set in a sci-fi universe (space opera subset, I guess) -- nothing tops the new BSG).


OK, but the original BSG was 1 season, 21 episodes. Trek (counting TOS) was 28 seasons, and, what, 10 feature films? That's a different thing altogether.

Sci-Fi to me loses enjoyment when they don't stick to their own established rules. And Trek even when to far as to explain why the Kirk era Klingons were so different in an ejoyable 3 part episode of Enterprise. Even the Abrhams re-imaging is explained by way of an alternate reality universe, which is cool. This just strikes be as re-imaging for no purpose other than to be different and edgy.
   288. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5538670)
JFC, NFL players stayed in the locker room during the anthem until 2009.

There's your answer. It was ####### idiotic to change that policy to begin with.
   289. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:56 PM (#5538671)
OK, but the original BSG was 1 season, 21 episodes.
Not if you count the ten-episode second season/sequel/spinoff Galactica 1980.
   290. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:57 PM (#5538672)
Not if you count the ten-episode second season/sequel/spinoff Galactica 1980.


OK. 31 episodes vs 28 seasons and 10 movies.
   291. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:58 PM (#5538674)
Made far worse by an execrable protectionist law from a century ago that keeps most ships from helping the island out.


I don't know much about this. Any link? (Honest question, I am curious)
   292. BrianBrianson Posted: September 25, 2017 at 04:58 PM (#5538675)
Reading is fundamental.


My own fault for thinking your words were supposed to be conveying ideas. Really, I should've known better.
   293. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 05:03 PM (#5538677)
However, I will back down in this respect - having Trump as President is really and unacceptably bad for Puerto Rico. There is an unfolding disaster happening there and the Idiot in Chief doesn't seem to care in the slightest that American Citizens are suffering.


Uh huh.




   294. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 05:08 PM (#5538678)
Uh huh.


They are not suffering? Trump really does care? You have read my mind and determined I don't really care about Puerto Rico? Any other president wouldn't have done more than Trump?

What is it you imagine? Having a look into your mind is always ... interesting.
   295. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 05:15 PM (#5538680)
Made far worse by an execrable protectionist law from a century ago that keeps most ships from helping the island out.

I don't know much about this. Any link? (Honest question, I am curious)
The law is commonly called the Jones Act, although its official name is the Merchant Marine Act. Of interest to labor lawyers is the provision that creates a cause of action for sailors injured while serving on ships. But the provision I was discussing requires that any ship carrying goods between two U.S. ports must be a U.S. vessel with a U.S. crew. This drastically raises costs for residents of Guam, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and Alaska under ordinary circumstances, but in emergency situations like this makes it impossible to get sufficient goods to the island.

See, e.g., this Boston Globe editorial, or this from Slate, or this from Reason. (Here's something from a couple of years ago talking about the law's ordinary effects on the island's economy, pre-hurricane.)
   296. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: September 25, 2017 at 05:18 PM (#5538681)
But the provision I was discussing requires that any ship carrying goods between two U.S. ports must be a U.S. vessel with a U.S. crew. This drastically raises costs for residents of Guam, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and Alaska under ordinary circumstances, but in emergency situations like this makes it impossible to get sufficient goods to the island.


But surely there are exceptions to this rule. Cruise ships routinely go from Ft Lauderdale or Miami directly to Key West. I've always wondered about this.
   297. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 25, 2017 at 05:19 PM (#5538682)
But surely there are exceptions to this rule. Cruise ships routinely go from Ft Lauderdale or Miami directly to Key West. I've always wondered about this.
Cruise ships -- not cargo ships.

(Occasionally the Jones Act requirements are waived for brief periods of time in emergencies. For instance, wrt Puerto Rico now it has been waived for shipments of fuel only. No other goods, even though Puerto Rico is dependent on food imports.)
   298. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: September 25, 2017 at 05:21 PM (#5538685)
There is an unfolding disaster happening there and the Idiot in Chief doesn't seem


"Seem" is yet again the trigger word signaling, "You can safely ignore everything that comes after."
   299. Lassus Posted: September 25, 2017 at 05:30 PM (#5538686)
Made far worse by an execrable protectionist law from a century ago that keeps most ships from helping the island out.

Not in this current emergency, it was waived (for fuel) in early September, and the waiver has been extended.

EDIT: beaten to it

   300. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: September 25, 2017 at 05:31 PM (#5538687)
Although I must say that it's high humor to watch "liberals" line up foursquare behind Roger Goodell, the NFL owners, and NFL culture.


Yes it's funny in the saddest of ways that Roger ####### Goodell and the NFL can claim the moral high ground over that piece of #### in chief. Trump is most definitely using this nothing issue to distract from the crisis in Puerto Rico. The Jones act can be waived. That's a bull #### excuse. Trump is scum.
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