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Sunday, January 08, 2017

OTP 9 Jan. 2017: What’s next for sports, politics, and TV in 2017?

Cyclical trends may obscure the connection at times, but you can’t permanently disentangle sport from politics:

“Sport in 2017 will con­tinue to be a resur­gent and resounding plat­form for athlete-​​led social activism,” says Dan Lebowitz, exec­u­tive director of Northeastern’s Center for the Study of Sport in Society. “If his­tory repeats itself, 2017 will be this generation’s 1967, a year in which promi­nent ath­letes held a social jus­tice summit to call out insti­tu­tion­al­ized inequity, con­front it, and cat­a­pult a con­ver­sa­tion that America still needs to hear, embrace, and lead.”

Today we have football’s Colin Kaeper­nick, whose national anthem protest cap­tured the nation’s atten­tion, and col­lege basketball’s Bronson Koenig, who protested the Dakota Access Pipeline and then reflected on his expe­ri­ence for The Players’ Tribune.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

 

BDC Posted: January 08, 2017 at 09:10 PM | 1952 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: activism, kaepernick, politics, social justice

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   801. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:23 PM (#5381401)
hey, I know Michael Cohen so that's fun.
Is he a better lawyer in real life than he is in the media?
   802. Theo^J Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:25 PM (#5381402)
Think for a sec -- this is a report paid for by NeverTrumpers/Democrats that was floated before the election and run through the McCain/Graham combine to the top brass of the USG. All still unsubstantiated...

Do you think if there was substance with any of this stuff it wouldn't have been dropped in a timely fashion?

Oops, forgot scarecrows don't have brains...
   803. Howie Menckel Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:28 PM (#5381405)
Is he a better lawyer in real life than he is in the media?

he does not come across as a lawyer at all. more of a henchman.

he's even more intense in real life than on TV - which is hard to believe, I realize. maybe the producers ask him to slow down.

he is an interesting character - but then, I have told of a lack of discomfort with really, well, challenging people. we got along fine. in my biz it helps to have a little lion tamer in you....
   804. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:29 PM (#5381407)
Yankee: that's the company line over at r/thedonald. It's a 4chan troll! Wonder if Donald pulled out the all caps for just a troll. The can't cover their asses fast enough for just a troll.

Again, Occam's razor.

It wasn't leaked OJ because even a half assed shitho!e liberal rag like buzzfeed has journalistic qualms. Or never mind it was just a 4chan troll. It wasn't leaked because it didn't exist outside of 4chan.

Hard to keep all the alibies straight. Hopefully Trump does better.
   805. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:30 PM (#5381408)
In soviet Russia, brains don't have scarecrows!
   806. reech Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:31 PM (#5381409)
Ya know, whatever else you wanna say... in 8 years of Obama, we have never had a conversation about golden showers.
   807. BDC Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:31 PM (#5381410)
Dan Mentos on Twitter:

*extremely woke voice* seeing a lot of kink shaming on the timeline tonight
   808. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:34 PM (#5381411)
Ya know, whatever else you wanna say... in 8 years of Obama, we have never had a conversation about golden showers.


Well, technically, I'm remembering something about teabagging...
   809. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:35 PM (#5381412)


[edit] pulled
   810. zenbitz Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:37 PM (#5381413)
There are Twitter reports that the BuzzFeed/madvillain Trump "scoop" originated as a 4Chan prank.


Man, that's the prank of the CENTURY if you got the FBI and CIA to tell the president about it.
   811. zenbitz Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:38 PM (#5381414)
Think for a sec -- this is a report paid for by NeverTrumpers/Democrats that was floated before the election and run through the McCain/Graham combine to the top brass of the USG. All still unsubstantiated...


THEN WHY WOULD YOU SIT ON IN IN NOVEMBER.
   812. Stormy JE Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:38 PM (#5381415)
Hmmm:
If Michael Cohen made it to Prague and back in August - it wouldn't have been easy. (All figures are *quick* tallies). He geotags lots.
   813. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:39 PM (#5381416)
he does not come across as a lawyer at all. more of a henchman.
Well, that's the impression I get from a distance.
   814. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:44 PM (#5381420)
Yankee: that's the company line over at r/thedonald. It's a 4chan troll! Wonder if Donald pulled out the all caps for just a troll. The can't cover their asses fast enough for just a troll.

Again, Occam's razor.

I will try to be polite, but if madvillain considers the BuzzFeed "intelligence report" credible, he's among the most gullible people on the planet. By his own account, it's been widely circulated for months, but no one other than he & BuzzFeed thought it was credible. That might say something.
   815. Stormy JE Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:45 PM (#5381421)
The more you know...

Golden shower vs. piss voyeurism:
A note of caution: The hashtag #goldengate really took off on Twitter, but it's still not entirely clear what Trump engaged in was actually a "golden shower." These terms can be quite fluid, but golden shower has, in every context we're familiar with, referred to the specific act of getting peed on. One could be also be said to be participating in a golden shower if they were doing the peeing, of course.

But simply watching some people pee on a bed? That would seem to be a form of what could be called piss voyeurism — a cross-over sub-genre of two different fetishes. That, though, isn't the end of this: If the sex workers purportedly hired by Trump were on the bed and peeing on each other while Trump watched, that could indeed be considered a "'golden showers' (urination) show."
   816. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:49 PM (#5381423)
Well, if the 1st and 2nd were that meaningfully true, you very likely wouldn't need to be adding the 3rd ...


Actually, I think if we can toss away the strawman about liberals believing a dystopian equalitopia is achievable, much less achievable through government action, much less achievable in a country populated by everyone from, yes - the Illinois hate crime torturers to the also-sentenced-today Dylan Roof -- and instead substitute a more realistic image of liberals that believe there are injustices in the world and our country that are improvable, even if with difficulty, even if imperfectly, even if conflicting or engendering unintended further injustices.... then

“Yes We Can. Yes We Did. Yes We Can,”


actually puts a pretty neat little bow on it.

No election - be it this shitshow or 2008 - is ever or should ever be considered THE destination... only 'permanent majorities' or its uglier, more sociopathic cousin, 'thousand year reichs' lay in that direction and thinking.

Every election is a journey that leads to another journey that leads to another journey... or should, anyway.

   817. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:50 PM (#5381425)
Every election is a journey that leads to another journey that leads to another journey... or should, anyway.


As I tell people about my job, building a BI system is much more a process than a destination. It is never finished but it should always be getting better.
   818. BDC Posted: January 10, 2017 at 10:54 PM (#5381429)
These terms can be quite fluid

I love this story so much.
   819. Theo^J Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:00 PM (#5381432)

I will try to be polite, but if madvillain considers the BuzzFeed "intelligence report" credible, he's among the most gullible people on the planet.


Self-reports as political activist, so let's hope he's in on the game. WaPo, NYT, CNN certainly are.
   820. simon bedford Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:03 PM (#5381434)
When it comes to Fetishes , Trump is number one!
   821. Theo^J Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:04 PM (#5381435)

I love this story so much.


...now that would make Putin wet himself!
   822. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:06 PM (#5381436)
Just finished with a (tape delayed) listen to Obama's farewell and I have to admit to being a bit misty.

It occurs to me that, counting both the 2004 Senate primary and GE, I voted for the guy 6 times, more than any other candidate for office in my lifetime...

I'm not sure I'd say any of those votes were the most passionate I ever cast - I suppose my meaningless 2004 Dean primary vote was mostly bitter tears passionate - but I do think they were the best votes I ever cast. Maybe if I had been an Illinois resident back in the days of Paul Simon, there would be competition for that 'honor', such as it is, but I wasn't.

He certainly wasn't perfect and it will be a good 30-40 years (well... ) before it will become historically meaningful to rank him among Presidents.

But damn, that guy was my virtual ideal of what a President should be. Mistakes, missteps, and things I'd have done differently and all - I'm proud to have had him as President.
   823. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:10 PM (#5381437)
Tying up some loose ends from a years ago thread - Clock Boy's Defamation Suit Dismissed:
A district court judge in Texas has dismissed a defamation lawsuit filed by Ahmed Mohamed on his own behalf and on behalf of his 15-year-old son, Ahmed Mohamed. They had sued Fox News, Glenn Beck, and the mayor of Irving -- among others -- for defamation in September of 2016.

A year earlier, Ahmed, then a 14-year-old freshman at an Irving, Texas, high school, was arrested, briefly detained by police, and suspended for three days after bringing to school a "cool clock" that looked like a briefcase bomb. Ahmed claimed to have "invented" the easily assembled clock, and that he had brought it to school to show it to his shop teacher.

The ruling was by a Democratic judge, FWIW.
   824. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:11 PM (#5381438)
As I tell people about my job, building a BI system is much more a process than a destination. It is never finished but it should always be getting better.


Coincidentally, professional advice I also received many a year ago and remains the best advice I pass along.
   825. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:19 PM (#5381440)
I will try to be polite, but if madvillain considers the BuzzFeed "intelligence report" credible, he's among the most gullible people on the planet. By his own account, it's been widely circulated for months, but no one other than he & BuzzFeed thought it was credible. That might say something.


Plus, the claim that he actually did *pay* someone for services rendered makes it all pretty suspect...
   826. Stormy JE Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:20 PM (#5381441)
JPod unloads:
Since the person retailing the factoids has an agenda, as BuzzFeed acknowledges here, he has at the very least a bias toward believing every piece of anti-Trump detail he puts down on paper—and at worst a desire to throw every single rumor he can collect (or generate out of his own fevered imaginings) at the wall to see which ones might stick.

At a moment when journalists are up in arms about “fake news,” what BuzzFeed has done here is take fake news to a new level. Its editor, Ben Smith, acknowledges “there is serious reason to doubt the allegations.” In other words, there is almost certainly fake news inside these memos, and it might all be fake, or some parts of it might be true but buried so deeply under falsity that it would be impossible to separate it out.

“Publishing this dossier reflects how we see the job of reporters in 2017,” Smith writes. This is an amazing thing to say, because if you think it through, it means publishing open libels and slanders is the job of reporters in 2017.

“Fake news will become more sophisticated, and fake, ambiguous, and spun-up stories will spread widely,” warned an important American editor at the end of December 2016. His name: Ben Smith. His publication: BuzzFeed.

I didn’t make that up.
   827. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:30 PM (#5381442)
This is an amazing thing to say, because if you think it through, it means publishing open libels and slanders is the job of reporters in 2017


Meh, if the new economy of paying people to do things suboptimally is the new reality, reporters gotta eat, too.

I suppose you'd just let all those domestic American jobs go overseas to places like RT...
   828. Greg K Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:36 PM (#5381444)
“Fake news will become more sophisticated, and fake, ambiguous, and spun-up stories will spread widely,” warned an important American editor at the end of December 2016. His name: Ben Smith. His publication: BuzzFeed.

He wasn't warning, that was a promo!
   829. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:40 PM (#5381445)
Ben Smith of Buzzfeed says that he made the decision to publish the Trump allegations so that "Americans can make up their own minds about the allegations of the president-elect that have been circulating at the highest levels of the US government."

That's quite a lofty standard for ensuring against publishing Fake News.

And also he says:

"As we noted in our story, there is serious reason to doubt the allegations."

Amazing.

And we can look forward to more Fake News ahead:

"Publishing this dossier reflects how we see the job of reporters in 2017."

So, to recap, Smith supported publishing anonymous allegations that he had "serious reason to doubt."

Trump may be able to sue for defamation here without even seeing his wet dream of getting the law changed satisfied. NY Times v. Sullivan would allow Trump to prevail if he proves that the statements were made in reckless disregard of the truth.
   830. Howie Menckel Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:43 PM (#5381446)
in other news

"The image is ingrained in the minds of every New York baseball fan of a certain era — yes even the Yankee die-hards — the pitcher's glove flung into the sky above the Shea Stadium mound, moments after then Mets reliever Jesse Orosco had finished off the Red Sox in Game 7 of the 1986 World Series by whiffing Marty Barrett.

But the story of what became of that glove is an even more enduring New York ditty, brought full circle with the death of NYPD Officer Steven McDonald on Tuesday. Orosco gave that famous glove — the southpaw pitcher also closed out the thrilling Game 6 clincher in the '86 NLCS against the Astros — to McDonald only months after the officer was shot while on duty in Central Park in July, 1986.

"I did what I thought was right. Everyone always asked me, 'Why did you give away that glove? You could have sold it and made a lot of money.' But it never entered my mind to keep it," Orosco told the Daily News Tuesday by phone in California, where he lives."
   831. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:45 PM (#5381447)
Has anyone said the trumpkins are pissed yet?

Because if not, I just did.
   832. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:46 PM (#5381448)
I will try to be polite, but if madvillain considers the BuzzFeed "intelligence report" credible, he's among the most gullible people on the planet. By his own account, it's been widely circulated for months, but no one other than he & BuzzFeed thought it was credible. That might say something.


Plus, I see that the left here is abandoning two "principles":

1. Sexual freedom, sexual freedom, we shouldn't pass judgment on what people decide to do in their own sex lives behind close doors.

2. The Bill Clinton defense: "This is just sex and so we don't care about it."
   833. tshipman Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:53 PM (#5381449)
I will try to be polite, but if madvillain considers the BuzzFeed "intelligence report" credible, he's among the most gullible people on the planet.


Guess who else believed it? Senator John McCain:

Senator John McCain passed documents to the FBI director, James Comey, last month alleging secret contacts between the Trump campaign and Moscow and that Russian intelligence had personally compromising material on the president-elect himself.

   834. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 10, 2017 at 11:58 PM (#5381450)
Moises Alou's chances of getting an ambassadorship have risen immensely.
   835. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:00 AM (#5381451)
Trump's potential impact on the federal judiciary in one chart. For those too lazy to click the link, among 2-term presidents, Reagan appointed 384 judges, Clinton 379, Bush 330 & Obama 329, while Trump will take office with the opportunity to fill 117 current vacancies, and have another 314 judges eligible to take senior status by 2020. Now, not all those judges will leave early enough for their successors to get through the nomination/confirmation process by the end of Trump's upcoming term, but most will. There are powerful economic incentives for federal judges to retire or take senior status once they are eligible. More at link.
   836. Theo^J Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:02 AM (#5381452)
Guess who else believed it? Senator John McCain


Shocker.
   837. Theo^J Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:03 AM (#5381453)
Also: Shipman.
   838. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:04 AM (#5381454)
Guess who else believed it? Senator John McCain:

Senator John McCain passed documents to the FBI director, James Comey, last month alleging secret contacts between the Trump campaign and Moscow and that Russian intelligence had personally compromising material on the president-elect himself.


That doesn't remotely suggest that McCain believed it, and moreover your own link says:

McCain is not thought to have made a judgment on the reliability of the documents but was sufficiently impressed by the source’s credentials to feel obliged to pass them to the FBI.
   839. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:05 AM (#5381455)
The stream of outrage is approaching bed wetting level.
   840. Shredder Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:07 AM (#5381456)
I have never been to Prague in my life. #fakenews
I don't really care how this all shakes out aside from the brief entertainment value, but do these idiots really think people don't understand how travel in the Schengen Zone works? Here's a hint: I went skiing in Austria last year, and had lunch in Liechtenstein on the way there, but you won't find stamps from either Austria or Liechtenstein in my passport.
   841. tshipman Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:08 AM (#5381457)
That doesn't remotely suggest that McCain believed it, and moreover your own link says:


I should have said, "found it credible." Do you think McCain regularly passes crank emails to the FBI?

Mostly, I just thought it was hilarious that John McCain is the source for this.

What a party. To go from war hero to Manchurian Candidate in two elections.
   842. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:12 AM (#5381458)
If McCain had thought to brand himself as something better than a "maverick", maybe he'd have had a better shot in his own runs.... something like "old pisss and vinegar".
   843. Theo^J Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:13 AM (#5381459)
I went skiing in Austria last year, and had lunch in Liechtenstein on the way there, but my passport doesn't have stamps from either Austria or Liechtenstein.


You Trump's secret agent man?
   844. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:14 AM (#5381460)
It's not "found it credible" either. Apparently he found the source reliable, and since it was an Important Issue (under the tortured logic that Trump is able to be shamed/blackmailed) he passed it along.
   845. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:26 AM (#5381461)
under the tortured logic that Trump is able to be shamed/blackmailed


Not by sex, but by money, or lack there of, absolutely.

Allowed and Not Allowed at the Trump Roast:


ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump's hair
ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump's wife Melania (and his two previous marriages)
ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump having sex with models
ALLOWED: Jokes about the failure of Trump Steaks, Trump Water, Trump Cologne, and other Trump products
ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump's failed casinos
ALLOWED: Jokes about how Trump only became successful thanks to his wealthy father
ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump's weight
ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump being attracted to his daughter Ivanka
NOT ALLOWED: Any joke that suggests Trump is not actually as wealthy as he claims to be


Link

Plus, of course, by his own son's admission, the Trump are up to their tits in Russian held debt ...
   846. zenbitz Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:36 AM (#5381462)
1. Sexual freedom, sexual freedom, we shouldn't pass judgment on what people decide to do in their own sex lives behind close doors.

2. The Bill Clinton defense: "This is just sex and so we don't care about it."


You have it totally backwards! He should be PROUD of his weird proclivities (assuming they are true). The only thing liberals care about are the alleged Russia->Trump contacts and how embarrassing this could be for the Trump and or his GOP supporters.

The whole story doesn't add up though - in any direction.

Let's say it's reputable: Someone in GOP had a Brit ex-spy work this up - got it this summer, and.... did nothing with it. I guess they got cold feet? But then it leaks out to John McCain, who takes it to the FBI?

Or, let's say it's fake - someone pays someone to write up some kind of "realistic" report thingy. They send it around during the summer - but no one - including Buzzfeed bites on it. I mean, there were some really faint rumors... but no details leaked at all. Improbable. So maybe it was all made up AFTER the election, as some revenge thingy??? Either way, a copy find it's way to John McCain (maybe HE is still pissed about the "war heroes don't get captured") - who is either in on it, or just desperately wants to believe it, or is genuinely confused. EITHER WAY - he gives to to the FBI...

So now we have a thing, that is either legit or totally fake (I guess it's possible that it could be PARTIALLY true... that would make a better fake) and the FBI has it. Presumably AFTER the election. So they check it out... and think it legit enough to take to Obama/POTUSE/Gang of 8? WTF? And they do this BEFORE the inauguration??? And buzzfeed leaks it that day??? Or did CNN get the story from buzzfeed???

This reminds me a lot of the whole Comey / Clinton email nonsense. I find it really vexing when I cannot determine or even guess at the motivation of the actors.
   847. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:37 AM (#5381463)
Plus, I see that the left here is abandoning two "principles":

1. Sexual freedom, sexual freedom, we shouldn't pass judgment on what people decide to do in their own sex lives behind close doors.

2. The Bill Clinton defense: "This is just sex and so we don't care about it."


Right, this is a SEX scandal..., like, when you're going over #### with your firm, you can't possibly miss the forest for the trees so often...can you? This story is the president elect's team (allegedly) meeting with Russian security agents in order to covertly exchange information and scratch the other's back. Another term for it would be treason, amirite?

The 4chan stuff isn't even worth debunking, it's like trying to argue AGW with a wingnut. It's incredible people think that this document, that has been passed along the highest ranks in the US Government, is a product of some loon on 4chan. But people will also argue more C02 mean more plants and extrapolate to AGW = good. You can't reason with such simple thinkers, why even try.

OJ: what kind of complex do you have where you think that you are a better judge of this document's authenicity than John McCain? I'm seriously asking. Or, if McCain isn't good enough, Obama, since he was briefed on it? Or Trump? Who refused the briefing. So, those important people deemed it worth examining, but you, you dimiss it out of hand.

I find this God Complex a strange facet of your thinking and those conspiracy minded folks you frequently link. I mean, do you believe the US Government works or do you not? It's worked out pretty well so far! If you think it's all just BS, (including what us "leftist" write) then stop writing, there's nothing more to say. Your tactic of ridicule instead of argument plays over at 4chan quite a bit better.

Do you have an argument that we shouldn't be concerned with Trump's ties to Russia other than ridiculing anyone, including John McCain, who finds it plausible enough to warrant critical analysis?

This reminds me a lot of the whole Comey / Clinton email nonsense. I find it really vexing when I cannot determine or even guess at the motivation of the actors.


Russia's short term goals are spelled out in the dossier, they are probably spelled out in similar terms in the security briefings for Obama and Trump, when he wants them. As for the individual actors in the US Government? Self interest perhaps, intertwined obviously with Trump's will to power and that of his team's. If Trump affiliates met with Russian intelligence then he's not fit to be President. If even there is like a 5% chance (just spitballing) you sure as hell investigate because the ramifications are so important.

   848. tshipman Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:48 AM (#5381464)
It's not "found it credible" either. Apparently he found the source reliable, and since it was an Important Issue (under the tortured logic that Trump is able to be shamed/blackmailed) he passed it along.



hahahahaha

Tortured logic.

What the Trump campaign is being accused of is literally Watergate, but with Russians instead of G. Gordon Liddy. I could give a damn if Trump feels shame.
   849. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 11, 2017 at 12:57 AM (#5381465)
I suspect some folks are going to be highly embarrassed that they vouched for the credibility of the BuzzFeed "intelligence report". How much did you lose of those Nigerian e-mail scams?
   850. SY Ruined School Lunches! Posted: January 11, 2017 at 01:17 AM (#5381467)
Why would they be embarrassed? Are you embarrassed about ballwashing a guy who rose to prominence promoting bizzare conspiracies about the president being born in Kenya?
   851. SY Ruined School Lunches! Posted: January 11, 2017 at 01:22 AM (#5381468)
The President and leader of the Republican Party believes some of the most moronic conspiracy theories imagineable. Sucks that buzzfeed, the cat GIF website, published a mean thing about him though.
   852. SY Ruined School Lunches! Posted: January 11, 2017 at 01:27 AM (#5381469)
Just had a messed up thought: what if there were millions of Donald Trumps who didn't pee on a hooker? And what if, instead of making unsubstantiated claims about pissing on a hooker, Buzzfeed made even less substantiated claims that they celebrated 9/11? Man, I'm sure glad buzzfeed isn't president.
   853. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: January 11, 2017 at 01:35 AM (#5381471)
I suspect some folks are going to be highly embarrassed that they vouched for the credibility of the BuzzFeed "intelligence report". How much did you lose of those Nigerian e-mail scams?


Well, the FBI and CIA are screwed then. It's the new WMD, except nobody ordered it really, it just kinda, became obvious to anyone paying half attention. I mean, Trump in the runup to November, discussing DNC hacks by Russia in a debate: "
I don't think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC. She's saying Russia, Russia, Russia, but I don't — maybe it was. I mean, it could be Russia, but it could also be China. It could also be lots of other people. It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, OK? You don't know who broke in to DNC."


Ok Donald, also, you're not exactly a paragon of physical fitness your self big guy.

Just had a messed up thought: what if there were millions of Donald Trumps who didn't pee on a hooker? And what if, instead of making unsubstantiated claims about pissing on a hooker, Buzzfeed made even less substantiated claims that they celebrated 9/11? Man, I'm sure glad buzzfeed isn't president.


well, the anthropic principle...not a big multiverse guy myself, hard to falsify. And if they are all out there, in ours, we have Trump as PEOTUS, so ####.
   854. Ray (CTL) Posted: January 11, 2017 at 02:09 AM (#5381472)
Right, this is a SEX scandal..., like, when you're going over #### with your firm, you can't possibly miss the forest for the trees so often...can you? This story is the president elect's team (allegedly) meeting with Russian security agents in order to covertly exchange information and scratch the other's back. Another term for it would be treason, amirite?


Except that when conservatives/Republicans argued that the Clinton scandal wasn't about SEX it was about something else (perjury/obstruction) liberals/Democrats countered with "no, it's only about sex."

But now that the "something else" is "treason" and the someone else is Trump, the roles are reversed.
   855. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 11, 2017 at 02:18 AM (#5381473)
From the Trump/Russia intelligence link in #708:
However, there were other aspects to engagement with the Russian authorities. One which had borne fruit for them was to exploit TRUMP's personal obsessions and sexual perversion in order to obtain suitable "kompromat" (compromising material) on him. According to Source D, where s/he had been present, TRUMP's (perverted) conduct in Moscow included hiring the presidential suite of the Ritz Carlton Hotel, where he knew President and OBAMA (whom he hated) had stayed on one of their official trips to Russia, and defiling the bed where they had slept by employing a number of prostitutes to perform a 'golden showers? (urination) show in front of him.



I assume this came from WikiLeaks.
   856. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2017 at 03:57 AM (#5381474)
Circle the wagons! Protect the emperor!

Have we considered the possibility that this conspiracy against Trump goes all the way to the top - Hussein X himself? After all, Trump was brave enough to openly state what so many Americans were thinking, but afraid to say: that Obama was an African savage born in the heart of the jungle. When you consider obama's known communist leanings, why shouldn't we believe it is Obama himself who is conspiring with the Kremlin as part of his lifelong goal of destroying America?

It is irresponsible to speculate? It would be irresponsible not to.
   857. Stormy JE Posted: January 11, 2017 at 07:17 AM (#5381477)
Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire:
Donald Trump wasn’t the only presidential candidate whose campaign was boosted by officials of a former Soviet bloc country.

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.
There was no reason for state actors being involved in this endeavor any meaningful way. Stupid.
   858. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 11, 2017 at 07:32 AM (#5381478)
How ####### naive is Trump to do this at a well known Russian honey pot...that's the real story. He's a ####### moron.


Given that he's a huge narcissist, maybe he was just getting off on the idea of someone else watching him?
   859. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 11, 2017 at 07:36 AM (#5381479)
   860. Stormy JE Posted: January 11, 2017 at 07:53 AM (#5381481)
Thanks to the Clintons, It’s Perfectly Legal for Jared Kushner to be Senior White House Advisor:
The basic upshot of the law, passed in 1967 under the direction of LBJ, was this: if a Kennedy retakes the White House, they can employ all their family in the White House, but not outside the White House in any agency of the executive branch. In other words, you can have the White House, but not the Justice Department too. Who affirmed this standard? The D.C. Circuit in 1993. On whose behalf? The Clintons.

On January 25, 1993, President Clinton established the President’s Task Force on National Health Care Reform. The President appointed his wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton, as the chairman of the Task Force. The Task Force directly advised the President, held public hearings, and met in private with cabinet staff to formulate a health care plan — Hillarycare.

Hillary, shock shock, wanted to keep the records of the Task Force secret. A variety of doctor groups sued to disclose them. In its defense in the case, the Clinton administration insisted the Task Force was exempt from publicly disclosing its records because all of its members–including Mrs. Clinton–were “government officers and employees” engaged in certain acts of privacy-protected policy. The doctor groups opposed that designation of Hillary as an “employee” on grounds the Kennedy-hating LBJ statute of 1967 statutorily barred her from appointment as an officer, colloquially known as the Anti-Nepotism Act. See 5 U.S.C. § 3110.

The D.C. Circuit ultimately concluded open government laws did not apply to Hillary’s actions for the Task Force. It only could conclude that by holding that Hillary was an officer or employee of the White House. It could only hold that by concluding the anti-nepotism law did not forbid such an appointment. (AAPS v. Clinton, 997 F.2d 898 (D.C. Cir. 1993)).
   861. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 11, 2017 at 07:57 AM (#5381482)
Turns out, Trump is a Goldwater Republican.
   862. Theo^J Posted: January 11, 2017 at 07:59 AM (#5381483)
OJ: what kind of complex do you have where you think that you are a better judge of this document's authenicity than John McCain? I'm seriously asking. Or, if McCain isn't good enough, Obama, since he was briefed on it? Or Trump? Who refused the briefing. So, those important people deemed it worth examining, but you, you dimiss it out of hand.


Your entire argument is one from authority, and pathetic authority like John McCain at that. Why do any of these politicos who spin the truth as a profession have an edge on anyone with a working brain? What expertise does it take to see through a six-month old story that buzzfeed admits is unproven speculation riddled with factual error?

Your first political memories don't have to Vietnam and Watergate to understand we aren't led by rocket scientists devoted to the pursuit of truth. NFW were you ever more than an envelope stuffer for a political operation, and even then you probably ended up in the emergency room with paper cuts.


I find this God Complex a strange facet of your thinking and those conspiracy minded folks you frequently link.


What is more conspiracy minded than some secret meeting in Prague for which there is zero evidence?

I mean, do you believe the US Government works or do you not? It's worked out pretty well so far!


JFC, are you twelve years old? Seriously, what we're witnessing is bureaucratic infighting that signals Trump as a serious threat not as some secret Russian dupe, but to powerful factions in those bureaucracies. To take any news that percolates up through Congress to its courtiers in the press is unbelievably naive, if not brain damaged.

If you think it's all just BS, (including what us "leftist" write) then stop writing, there's nothing more to say. Your tactic of ridicule instead of argument plays over at 4chan quite a bit better.


You really are an OTP rookie, aren't you?

   863. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:04 AM (#5381484)
Thanks to the Clintons, It’s Perfectly Legal for Jared Kushner to be Senior White House Advisor:


Even if the legal analysis presented is correct*, somehow it is the Clinton's fault the "D.C. Circuit ultimately concluded"? Mind control? Is it Roe's fault abortion is legal? Or maybe is that what the legal system interpreted?

No, you are right, I forgot the main rule that everything is the fault of the Clintons and/or Obama (I suspect in the future other Dems will slide effortlessly into this role).

* No clue. Not a lawyer and I don't really care either way honestly.
   864. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:07 AM (#5381486)
Seriously, what we're witnessing is bureaucratic infighting that signals Trump as a serious threat not as some secret Russian dupe, but to powerful factions in those bureaucracies. To take any news that percolates up through Congress to its courtiers in the press is unbelievably naive, if not brain damaged.


I think a bigger picture view is closer to this, and the bigger picture view is that our president-elect and a whole wing of the national security establishment (it seems the CIA) are in open war against each other and this seems unprecedented...and that's concerning for the empire.
   865. Theo^J Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:08 AM (#5381488)
Ridiculousness by definition is deserving of ridicule. The idiots racking their nuts on MTV are one-up on Buzzfeed, CNN, and madvillain.

Trump ain't the shameless one here.
   866. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:14 AM (#5381489)
I think a bigger picture view is closer to this, and the bigger picture view is that our president-elect and a whole wing of the national security establishment (it seems the CIA) are in open war against each other and this seems unprecedented...and that's concerning for the empire.


It is like watching a football game between the Cowboys and the Packers, I don't like either team and so can enjoy the bloodshed for its own sake. I don't really route for a meteor to hit the stadium and take out both teams, but that is the phrase I use to describe the situation.

Trump versus the CIA, may there be no winner, so long as the US makes it out the other side OK.
   867. Theo^J Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:15 AM (#5381490)
I think a bigger picture view is closer to this, and the bigger picture view is that our president-elect and a whole wing of the national security establishment (it seems the CIA) are in open war against each other and this seems unprecedented...and that's concerning for the empire.


I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."


Or if you prefer pulp...
   868. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:23 AM (#5381492)
Turns out, Trump is a Goldwater Republican.

I'm glad I scrolled down to #861 before awarding the Primey for this particular topic.

   869. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:34 AM (#5381494)
Is there anything more amusingly ironic than the outrage emanating from Trump Central about fake news? Has there ever been anything more amusingly ironic in the annals of human history?

Of course one reason why the intelligence agencies might have found those reports credible enough to pass along is that the activities attributed to Trump aren't exactly inconsistent with what he's already bragged about. This is a character who boasts of grabbing women by the crotch, and at the same time is a germophobe who's addicted to sani-wipes. These reports about pissing prostitutes may have been wholly invented by his opponents, but you have to admit they knew what sort of fake news to make up that wouldn't seem inherently impossible to believe.
   870. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:37 AM (#5381495)
I'm glad I scrolled down to #861 before awarding the Primey for this particular topic.


This whole sub thread has been really amusing. Think how boring and predictable a HRC victory would have been. Of course everything is still all the Clintons' fault AND we get a show with our dinner.
   871. BDC Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:37 AM (#5381496)
watching a football game between the Cowboys and the Packers … I don't really route for a meteor to hit the stadium and take out both teams

Well thanks for that, because I'd be right in the debris field.
   872. Dan The Mediocre is one of "the rest" Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:39 AM (#5381497)
Well thanks for that, because I'd be right in the debris field.


On the other hand, dust from the impact would block out the sun and keep you cool.
   873. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:40 AM (#5381498)
Even if the legal analysis presented is correct*, somehow it is the Clinton's fault the "D.C. Circuit ultimately concluded"? Mind control? Is it Roe's fault abortion is legal? Or maybe is that what the legal system interpreted?
Uh, the Clintons made the arguments; the "legal system" (or, as most people call it, "the court") didn't just go around "interpreting" things out of the blue. Now, with Roe perhaps you could argue that if it weren't her, it would have been someone else. But you certainly can't make that argument for the anti-nepotism law.
   874. Stormy JE Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:43 AM (#5381499)
Even if the legal analysis presented is correct*, somehow it is the Clinton's fault the "D.C. Circuit ultimately concluded"? Mind control? Is it Roe's fault abortion is legal? Or maybe is that what the legal system interpreted?

No, you are right, I forgot the main rule that everything is the fault of the Clintons and/or Obama (I suspect in the future other Dems will slide effortlessly into this role).
I posted this piece because yesterday MV was moaning and groaning about how indescribably awful it is that Kushner will have a role inside the next White House.
   875. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:45 AM (#5381500)
Heh... so I suppose we all knew Clown Duce was wholly unprepared and ill-equipped to be President, but who knew he was THIS unprepared?

Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to "leak" into the public. One last shot at me.Are we living in Nazi Germany?


Why, we haven't gotten to the phase of his "Presidency" when sitting congressmen start shooting fruits and vegetables to prove he murdered someone who committed suicide!
   876. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:48 AM (#5381501)
Uh, the Clintons made the arguments; the "legal system" (or, as most people call it, "the court") didn't just go around "interpreting" things out of the blue. Now, with Roe perhaps you could argue that if it weren't her, it would have been someone else. But you certainly can't make that argument for the anti-nepotism law.


So your claim is without Hillary and the task force Trump would never had wanted Jared to serve in his administration? Really? I guess the Clinton's were the first politicians ever to practice any sort of nepotistic actions then.

And the point - which you missed - is one of "fault". The defendant is not at fault when the courts rule in their favor, any more than a football player is at fault for how the officials interpret the NFL rule book. Pretending otherwise is silly.

Seriously is there anything that is not the fault of some liberal somewhere? Do you folks have any sense of responsibility? Trump wants his son-in-law. If that is bad then blame Trump. If the rules allowing it are bad then blame those who wrote or interpret the rules. But instead some here want to blame someone who previously followed the rules. Now you might have a case if the Clinton Administration argued for and passed laws on the subject, but just because they won a case on it every instance of that law following is their fault?
   877. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:50 AM (#5381502)
I posted this piece because yesterday MV was moaning and groaning about how indescribably awful it is that Kushner will have a role inside the next White House.


Hey I get it, any excuse to take a shot at a Clinton must be taken.
   878. Stormy JE Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:52 AM (#5381503)
Hey I get it, any excuse to take a shot at a Clinton must be taken.
This is rich coming from the gang still blaming W for every Obama foreign policy failure. LOL.
   879. Stormy JE Posted: January 11, 2017 at 08:57 AM (#5381504)
Seriously is there anything that is not the fault of some liberal somewhere?
Whataboutism may be a lazy argument but it still trumps the side which kept their traps shut or voiced approval when it was their side engaged in the now-nefarious process.
   880. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:02 AM (#5381505)
This is rich coming from the gang still blaming W for every Obama foreign policy failure. LOL.


Nope. Most of us blame W for W's failures. We blame Obama for stuff Obama did, like the much discussed drone program (continuation therein) the vast majority of us dislike.

which kept their traps shut or voiced approval when it was their side engaged in the now-nefarious process


I must admit I am not clear which "nefarious process" I didn't speak out against. Was it the killing of Vince Foster?
   881. GordonShumway Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:02 AM (#5381506)
Heh... so I suppose we all knew Clown Duce was wholly unprepared and ill-equipped to be President, but who knew he was THIS unprepared?

"Cheeto Benito" is a lot catchier.
   882. GordonShumway Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:06 AM (#5381507)
For those of you who weren't sleeping through Con Law:

In what instances can the Appointments Clause limit and/or invalidate the 1967 anti-nepotism law, if at all?

Thanks in advance.
   883. Stormy JE Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:11 AM (#5381509)
Whataboutism may be a lazy argument but it still trumps the side which kept their traps shut or voiced approval when it was their side engaged in the now-nefarious process.
Never mind what Kushner critics were or were not saying during Clinton's first term, Trumpian executive action is right around the corner. I'll turn up my hearing aid to make sure I'm able to note all of your enthusiastic cheers.
   884. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:21 AM (#5381513)
So your claim is without Hillary and the task force Trump would never had wanted Jared to serve in his administration? Really?
No, not really. You have a habit of responding here with, "So your argument is [some strawman that no reasonable person would ever think that a person's argument is]", instead of just responding to what was actually said. My claim is that without Hillary and the task force, there would be no court decision blessing Trump's appointment of Jared to a White House position.

And the point - which you missed - is one of "fault". The defendant is not at fault when the courts rule in their favor, any more than a football player is at fault for how the officials interpret the NFL rule book. Pretending otherwise is silly.
A party to the litigation can't force the courts to rule a certain way, but if the party doesn't make the argument, the court can't adopt it. If a soccer player takes one of those fake dives, that doesn't force the referee to call a penalty on the other team, but the ref wouldn't have called the penalty without the dive, so, yes, he's at fault, in part.
   885. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:22 AM (#5381514)
Has there ever been anything more amusingly ironic in the annals of human history?


Amusing?
If I wasn't an American I'd probably find everything political that has taken place in America the past 15 months to be hysterical.

It's not so funny when it's your country, the one you were born in and live in that has gone so unhinged.

   886. Greg K Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:32 AM (#5381516)
Amusing?
If I wasn't an American I'd probably find everything political that has taken place in America the past 15 months to be hysterical.

It's not so funny when it's your country, the one you were born in and live in that has gone so unhinged.

Funnily enough I was just watching a Zizek clip in which he argues that comedy is the only response in beyond tragic situations. He argues that "Je Suis Paris" is a response which is only possible from a safe distance. If you're in the #### with the grieving families of victims, tasteless jokes are the only human response.
   887. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5381517)
My claim is that without Hillary and the task force, there would be no court decision blessing Trump's appointment of Jared to a White House position.


And instead Jared and Trump would go forth anyway and things would unfold as they did for Clinton, which would change things how?

The real point - which you are still missing - is Trump putting his son in law in place is in no way the fault of Clinton. I am not arguing for or against Jared's appointment. I am not arguing for or against the current laws and/or rules, or how the are being interpreted.

The point is this particular thing is not the fault of Clinton. Pulling Clinton into it at all is CDS writ large. If ANYONE* else had established the precedent they never would have been brought up.

But even now, when the Clinton family is done with national politics for the foreseeable future, there is some primal urge to make everything somehow the fault of a Clinton (any Clinton will do in a pinch).

* OK had it been Obama it probably also would have been mentioned. Maybe some other Democrat, maybe.


A party to the litigation can't force the courts to rule a certain way, but if the party doesn't make the argument, the court can't adopt it. If a soccer player takes one of those fake dives, that doesn't force the referee to call a penalty on the other team, but the ref wouldn't have called the penalty without the dive, so, yes, he's at fault, in part.


Except for your analogy to hold the first soccer player to take a dive would be at fault for every penalty called on every dive after that. Since I happen to think personal accountability is a thing I think the actual player and referee (and person who wrote the rules) should be held accountable for their own acts and think blaming the first player to take advantage of the rule for every instance after that is more than a bit ridiculous.

   888. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:37 AM (#5381518)
I missed Clapper's approval/disapproval report in all the pee fun -- but did anyone discuss the QuinniPEEac poll show that Clown Duce's approval is at 37%?
   889. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:42 AM (#5381520)
Clown Duce being such a target-rich environment, I see that I actually didn't cherrypick the best tweet from the Chief Twit --

Russia just said the unverified report paid for by political opponents is "A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FABRICATION, UTTER NONSENSE." Very unfair!


So the grand high poobah of protectionism has already outsourced intelligence to a foreign land?
   890. Ron J Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:44 AM (#5381522)
Interesting to me that McCain seems to have been the person to pass the Trump/Russia dossier to the FBI.

The Guardian has seen the material but has not yet reported any specifics.

Among the things the Guardian has reported:

It claims that Trump had declined “various sweetener real estate deals offered him in Russia” especially in developments linked to the 2018 World Cup finals but that “he and his inner circle have accepted a regular flow of intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals.”

Most explosively, the report alleges: “FSB has compromised Trump through his activities in Moscow sufficiently to be able to blackmail him.”

(And yeah, how? Hell underage girls didn't take Berlusconi down.)

And the Guardian does note a few errors they spotted in first read. Nothing major at first glance. Some spelling errors. Characterization of an exclusive neighborhood (Barvikha) as “reserved for the residences of the top leadership and their close associates”, when there are no such restrictions (it is in practice tough to afford a place there without connections. Russia is after all a kleptocracy and it's very expensive)
   891. Eddo Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:44 AM (#5381523)
Except that when conservatives/Republicans argued that the Clinton scandal wasn't about SEX it was about something else (perjury/obstruction) liberals/Democrats countered with "no, it's only about sex."

But now that the "something else" is "treason" and the someone else is Trump, the roles are reversed.

Well, Clinton's perjury charges were directly related to questioning about the sex, right?

If it turns out that Trump's meeting(s) with Russians were solely to find out who the primo hookers were, then I'll gladly concede that this is much ado about nothing.
   892. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:45 AM (#5381524)
A while back someone asked if there were any Trump nominees Democrats didn't hate (or words roughly to that effect) - Retired Gen. John Kelly is Trump’s pick to run immigration enforcement. Here’s why Dems aren’t fighting him.

There are plenty of Trump administration nominees that Senate Democrats are gravely concerned about. Gen. John Kelly, the retired Marine nominated to head the perpetually troubled Department of Homeland Security, is not one of them.

If anything, Kelly — like another of the retired generals President-elect Donald Trump has picked for a top post, Defense Secretary nominee James Mattis — is a lot more respected among Democrats and policy wonks than his boss-to-be. As head of US Northern Command (coordinating the armed forces’ operations in North America) and Southern Command (Central and South America), he showed a willingness to work with foreign governments and an interest in complex solutions for complex problems — both things that many Democrats would like to see far more of from Trump.

So when Kelly goes before the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee Tuesday, they’ll be less interested in shooting down his nomination than in finding out how he plans to lead one of the country’s most sprawling and poorly-managed Cabinet departments — and how willing he’ll be to challenge the president. Here are a few topics you can expect to come up.


I know I was not the object of the question, since I am on record that by and large Trump should get the nominees he is asking for, but I thought it interesting.
   893. Dale Sams Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:48 AM (#5381526)
Another term for it would be treason, amirite?


uarenot.
   894. Zonk prescribes Rezine for TDS Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:50 AM (#5381528)
Most explosively, the report alleges: “FSB has compromised Trump through his activities in Moscow sufficiently to be able to blackmail him.”

(And yeah, how? Hell underage girls didn't take Berlusconi down.)


Maybe they have his tax returns.
   895. Ron J Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:56 AM (#5381529)
#776 If they know something that they actually have little confidence in is going to be leaked the briefing will also spell out their reservations. Pretty much always give a confidence estimate on all of the sources.
   896. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:57 AM (#5381530)
Except for your analogy to hold the first soccer player to take a dive would be at fault for every penalty called on every dive after that.
Please tell me you understand the concepts of analogies and legal precedent, at least better than Andy does. The Clintons are responsible, in part, for the court ruling in their case, just as the diving player is responsible in part for the ref's call in his case. That's the analogy. And once the Clintons secured that ruling, it compelled that ruling in future cases.
   897. stig-tossled,hornswoggled gef the talking mongoose Posted: January 11, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5381531)
The empty-headed evangelical Christians (but I repeat myself) love this guy. Maybe they think he was being baptized in that hotel room? Sprinkling, after all, is one method.
   898. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 11, 2017 at 10:08 AM (#5381536)
Please tell me you understand the concepts of analogies and legal precedent, at least better than Andy does. The Clintons are responsible, in part, for the court ruling in their case, just as the diving player is responsible in part for the ref's call in his case. That's the analogy. And once the Clintons secured that ruling, it compelled that ruling in future cases.


Look the dumb soccer analogy was YOURS. Now you don't like it, well that is not my fault.

Do you seriously contend that if Reagan had secured the precedent that Jason would have linked to an article (which would not even have been written, of course) blaming Reagan for the appointment of Trump's SIL?

This has zero to do with the concept of legal precedent and everything to do with CDS. You know that, I know that, and I bet Jason knows that. Everyone here knows that (well, OK, there are maybe some here who can't see past their CDS to see it and others who are just plain dumb).

If we were ranking just how responsible the various actors are for the upcoming appointment of Jared it would go ...

Trump.
Jared.

[gap]

Then whoever wrote the applicable laws and rules.
Then the various judges and lawyers involved in the case and any appeals.
(There could be some argument about the ordering of above, with various players in various slots)

[gap]

Then finally we might get some extremely attenuated shred falling down to the Clintons. And again if the name on the case was anything else no one would have even thought to mention it. If you want to shield rampant CDS with that tiny figleaf well that is your right certainly, but I get to point out the ridiculousness of it.
   899. BDC Posted: January 11, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5381537)
La Dernière's horse had a bellyache yesterday and the vet had to come out. Doing better today, but Hillary's going to have to answer for this.
   900. reech Posted: January 11, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5381541)
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