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Monday, October 09, 2017

OTP 9 October 2017: Trump Tells Pence to Leave N.F.L. Game as Players Kneel During Anthem

Mr. Pence lavishly documented his early departure in a series of tweets and an official statement issued by his office. On Twitter, he declared, “I left today’s Colts game because @POTUS and I will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our Flag, or our National Anthem.”

While the vice president portrayed his decision as a gesture of patriotic principle, it had the distinct appearance of a well-planned, if costly, political stunt. He doubled back from a trip to the West Coast to take a seat in the stands in Indianapolis, where the 49ers — the team most associated with the N.F.L. protest movement against racial injustice — were suiting up to play the Colts.

(As always, views expressed in the article lede and comments are the views of the individual commenters and the submitter of the article and do not represent the views of Baseball Think Factory or its owner.)

Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 09, 2017 at 07:53 AM | 2170 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nfl, politics

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   1701. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:04 PM (#5551551)
That must be why women cry 12 times a week, while men... don't.


Have you considered the possibility women just find your company that horrific?
   1702. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5551552)
1694:

Right on, brother!
   1703. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5551553)
Ray, #1699:
Have you actually been around women?


No, but I passed two women on my walk to work the other day. So I can tell you everything there is to know about them.
   1704. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:05 PM (#5551554)
But I'm going to a Blade Runner doublefeature in a couple hours


I'm sorry.
   1705. BrianBrianson Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:06 PM (#5551556)
That must be why women cry 12 times a week, while men... don't.

Have you actually been around women? You think there are basically no differences other than biology?


Do you even read what you're trying to refute? Men and women differ in how often things happen to them, and consequently how often they do things. But apart from like, menstruating and birthing babies, nothing is strictly a woman thing. A woman thing by a factor of 2 or 3, sure. But not strictly.

And if you don't cry 12 times a week, you're not using enough scotch bonnets in your cooking, eh?
   1706. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5551557)
But apart from like, menstruating and birthing babies, nothing is strictly a woman thing.


Foxy boxing?
   1707. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:07 PM (#5551558)
Basically nothing is, except for a couple of biology things.

And that would have no effect?
   1708. dog poop god Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:12 PM (#5551560)
The Anomaly of Barbarism

Solid critique of our disastrous foreign policy in the 21st Century.
   1709. dog poop god Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:18 PM (#5551561)
There is a wide range of intrasex difference, but you don't have to deny the fundamental divide between the biology AND lived experiences of men and women, and recognizing the fundamental need of individual women to be treated as persons, both in public and private.

It's a long learning curve for the Neanderthal side, let's be honest.
   1710. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:21 PM (#5551563)
It's absurd. She's not attractive,
Gee, why would anyone call him a troll?
   1711. BrianBrianson Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:25 PM (#5551564)
There is a wide range of intrasex difference, but you don't have to deny the fundamental divide between the biology AND lived experiences of men and women, and recognizing the fundamental need of individual women to be treated as persons, both in public and private.


There's a much, much, much wider range of intrasex similarities. Just as though there are some differences in lived experiences on average, the overlaps are generally much larger. You'd have a lot more success getting people on board with "recognizing the fundamental need of individual women to be treated as persons" if you didn't package it as making women fundamentally different from men.
   1712. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:36 PM (#5551568)
As for your unexpectedly contrarian view of Double Indemnity


I'm a fairly regular listener to the Filmspotting podcast, and it was maybe nine years ago, I'm driving along and Double Indemnity is the topic and one of the hosts, Adam Kempenar (sp.), pretty much assumes that everyone agrees that Double Indemnity is an inner circle HOF film, and his co-host, Sam Van Halgren (sp.) kind of hints that no, he really doesn't think that and in fact he really doesn't even think it's very good, and Kempenar, rather like the poor lobster in cold water, slowly begins to realize Van Halgren is serious, upon which he asks him like four questions in the Andyesque repetitive, "Wait are you really saying that" format to which Van Halgren answers to each, "Yeah, I'm not just saying that but I'm actually saying more than that and no matter how many times you ask me if I'm really saying that the answer is going to be the same each time."

Whereupon, Kempenar is surprised, shocked, and fainting couch horrified, and has a reaction virtually identical to Mrs. Smails seeing Carl eat the "doodie" candy bar after cleaning the pool.(*) (My response, of course, was, "Preach it, brother.")

(*) I've always kind of wondered whether people who think Double Indemnity is one of the greatest films ever like, really, actually believe that -- or instead go through more of a process of "well, a lot of people think that, they seem like smart people, I've seen it, I liked it, I'd like to be the kind of person who thinks it's one of the best films of all time (**) and I'd like people to think of me that way ... yeah, it's one of the greatest films of all time." I mean, there's no real, serious sense in which it is one of the greatest films of all-time and I'd challenge anyone, anywhere to actually type out a case that it is. Not that it's good, or even excellent -- but that it's literally one of the top, say, 30 films of all-time. It's really not even close.

(**) Think here of George Costanza, upon remembering that Keith Hernandez is a Civil War buff, saying, "I think I'd like to be a Civil War buff."
   1713. dog poop god Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:40 PM (#5551573)
1711 -- Intrasex means "within the sex", not "between the sexes".

No advance is ever made denying the fundamental reality of biological sex differences and how they drive human behavior.
   1714. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:44 PM (#5551574)
(*) I've always kind of wondered whether people who think Double Indemnity is one of the greatest films ever like, really, actually believe that -- or instead go through more of a process of "well, a lot of people think that, they seem like smart people, I've seen it, I liked it, I'd like to be the kind of person who thinks it's one of the best films of all time (**) and I'd like people to think of me that way ... yeah, it's one of the greatest films of all time." I mean, there's no real, serious sense in which it is one of the greatest films of all-time and I'd challenge anyone, anywhere to actually type out a case that it is. Not that it's good, or even excellent -- but that it's literally one of the top, say, 30 films of all-time. It's really not even close.


It's not one of the 30 best films of all time. It's something like the 5th or 6th best film Billy Wilder had a hand in.

It's also not the most overrated film of all time, as SBB inanely declared to provoke this very reaction we're sharing. It's not even the most overrated Billy Wilder film of the mid-1940s, let alone among all films ever.

It's not the best Wilder film, it's not the best Stanwyck film, it's not the best Fred MacMurray film, it's not the best film noir, it's not the best Paramount film, it's not the best film of 1944. It is the best film adapation of James M. Cain, though. And it's very, very good.
   1715. BrianBrianson Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:45 PM (#5551576)
Yes, I read intrasex as intersex.

And yes, there are biological sex differences. But those differences are wildly overstated in almost every case. And the resulting behaviour differences are wildly overstated two times over. The overlap between men's experiences and women's experiences is far greater than the difference. And only a few things directly relaxed to sex differences are exclusively or overwhelmingly the domain of women's experiences or men's experiences.
   1716. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:45 PM (#5551577)
I have defended Rockwell a number of times in specific instances, and against the general charge of trollery, but that last post on Stanwyck is so wrongheaded as to constitute at least some sort of tort.

I'll just say that I'd hate for anyone who has negative feelings and views about me personally to let that interfere with giving La Stanwyck a chance. There is both breadth and height to her accomplishment. And she'll knock your socks off.

Frank Capra, before he had James Stewart, had Stanwyck. He groomed her. He once said something to effect that when she turned it on, everything else stopped.

As Capra left her dressing room, he would say, “Remember, Barbara. No matter what the other actors do, whether they stop or blow their lines—you continue your scene right to the end. Understand?”

Capra wanted to make it easy for Barbara. “He wanted me to be great and made me know it.” She felt “babied and pampered” by him. And in his understanding of her, she knew, “he wanted me to be free,” and made it possible for her to reach deep into herself.
A Life of Barbara Stanwyck: Steel True 1907-1940.
   1717. PepTech Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:46 PM (#5551578)
But I'm going to a Blade Runner doublefeature in a couple hours

I'm sorry.
You *do* realize that Edward James Olmos (the enigmatic Gaff of Blade Runner) was a distinguished guest star on Hawaii 5-O, right? James Hong was even a *recurring* guest. Pooh-pooh at your own risk.
   1718. dog poop god Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:50 PM (#5551580)
Once the dust settles, we should consider why a powerful person gets away with stuff beyond the circular "he is powerful".

Harvey Weinstein got #### done that others couldn't, and a lot of that is acting bullish in a china shop. Weinstein's passionate love of movies combines combined with fierce energy and drive caused people to either go along or get out of the way.

Never taking no for an answer was at the root of his success. That it severely stunted him as a human being, no doubt. But he paid the price, and others were willing, too.
   1719. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:53 PM (#5551582)
Hong had some memorable guest turns. Including playing the oily boss (Tot Kee) of the delectable Melody Patterson, who was Mrs. James MaCarthur at the time. In another episode Harry Guardino killed him off. (Seinfeld fans will remember Hong as the host in the Chinese Restaurant episode. ("Seinfeld! Four!!!"))

The episode Olmos appeared in was unremarkable.
   1720. PepTech Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:54 PM (#5551584)
Texas, red state, check. Florida, red state, check and check. Puerto Rico is an island. Surrounded by the ocean. Oceans are blue.
"TEXAS: We are with you today, we are with you tomorrow, and we will be with you EVERY SINGLE DAY AFTER, to restore, recover, and REBUILD,"

"Just like TX, WE are w/you today, we are w/you tomorrow, & we will be w/you EVERY SINGLE DAY AFTER, to RESTORE, RECOVER, & REBUILD,"

"Electric and all infrastructure was disaster before hurricanes. Congress to decide how much to spend. We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever!"
   1721. dog poop god Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:00 PM (#5551586)
Brian -- the capacity to give birth is a profoundly fundamental difference that rules both sexes. Once women are past the years of childbearing, similarities come more into play.

This is a quandary for feminism from radical to middle of the road. The former understand the stakes, the latter more pragmatically campaign to eat their cake and have it, too.

Making society more egalitarian helps, but that comes at a cost American society largely balks at.

Iceland is an intersting counterexample.
   1722. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:01 PM (#5551587)
I've always kind of wondered whether people who think Double Indemnity is one of the greatest films ever like, really, actually believe that -- or instead go through more of a process of "well, a lot of people think that, they seem like smart people, I've seen it, I liked it, I'd like to be the kind of person who thinks it's one of the best films of all time (**) and I'd like people to think of me that way ... yeah, it's one of the greatest films of all time." I mean, there's no real, serious sense in which it is one of the greatest films of all-time and I'd challenge anyone, anywhere to actually type out a case that it is. Not that it's good, or even excellent -- but that it's literally one of the top, say, 30 films of all-time. It's really not even close.

I think it's a great film, but I don't rate it as high as you do. I can't figure out for the life of me why MacMurray wasn't at least nominated. Stanwyck was. Everyone knew Stanwyck was capable of playing that femme fatale, but MacMurray was noted for light comedy (although he had given hints of more, like in Swing High, Swing Low). His performance is something of a surprise. I always thought, based on his performance there, that he would have made a great Phillip Marlowe. He, like Grant, was noted for his line readings (noted, praised, and taken for granted). He snaps those lines.

EDITED
   1723. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:02 PM (#5551588)
It's absurd. She's not attractive,

Gee, why would anyone call him a troll?


Oh, I see -- "troll" means "expresses an opinion." So we have our definition.
   1724. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:14 PM (#5551590)
But apart from like, menstruating and birthing babies, nothing is strictly a woman thing.

Foxy boxing?


Come at me bro.
   1725. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:18 PM (#5551593)
Once the dust settles, we should consider why a powerful person gets away with stuff beyond the circular "he is powerful".


Access to legions of lawyers, the amoral, dead-eyed thugs of the modern world.
   1726. DavidFoss Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:32 PM (#5551596)
Brian -- the capacity to give birth is a profoundly fundamental difference that rules both sexes. Once women are past the years of childbearing, similarities come more into play.

This is a quandary for feminism from radical to middle of the road. The former understand the stakes, the latter more pragmatically campaign to eat their cake and have it, too.


Do you have a job? If so, do any women work there? If there is a conflict at work, it is usually because something is not getting done and/or because someone is being a jerk. The solution is usually to figure out how to get the work done and/or handle the being-a-jerk situation. Immediately assuming that the gender of the people involved is the root of the problem is at very patronizing and often ends up just pouring gasoline on the fire.
   1727. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:49 PM (#5551600)
(*) I've always kind of wondered whether people who think Double Indemnity is one of the greatest films ever like, really, actually believe that -- or instead go through more of a process of "well, a lot of people think that, they seem like smart people, I've seen it, I liked it, I'd like to be the kind of person who thinks it's one of the best films of all time (**) and I'd like people to think of me that way ... yeah, it's one of the greatest films of all time." I mean, there's no real, serious sense in which it is one of the greatest films of all-time and I'd challenge anyone, anywhere to actually type out a case that it is. Not that it's good, or even excellent -- but that it's literally one of the top, say, 30 films of all-time. It's really not even close.

It's not one of the 30 best films of all time. It's something like the 5th or 6th best film Billy Wilder had a hand in.

It's also not the most overrated film of all time, as SBB inanely declared to provoke this very reaction we're sharing. It's not even the most overrated Billy Wilder film of the mid-1940s, let alone among all films ever.

It's not the best Wilder film, it's not the best Stanwyck film, it's not the best Fred MacMurray film, it's not the best film noir, it's not the best Paramount film, it's not the best film of 1944. It is the best film adapation of James M. Cain, though. And it's very, very good.


Double Indemnity is a very good movie, but it shouldn't be in the inner circle for anyone whose viewing repertory extends beyond the AFI top 100. Stanwyck's made better noirs (The File on Thelma Jordon, for starters), Robinson was great but he's great in just about everything, and MacMurray played with Kim Novak in a similar and better Good Man Gone Bad movie called Pushover, where he's a police detective rather than an insurance salesman. As far as noirs go, DI isn't in the top 50, but then there's a ton of stiff competition in that genre, so that's hardly a slam. It may be slightly overrated, but not tremendously so. It's one of those movies that I'd want to see about every 5 or 10 years, but it's not remotely as good as Out of the Past, The Killers, Diabolique, etc.

And in the language of yesterday's entries in this thread, "naturalistic" is the last word I'd use to describe MacMurray's somewhat stilted performance, where his dictaphone messages often approach noir parody.
   1728. Howie Menckel Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:50 PM (#5551601)
I once attended a "foxy boxing" show at a nightclub.

I'm sure the clothing designer got fired at the end of the night, because the outfits on the foxy boxers routinely slipped - suggesting poor-fitting attire.
   1729. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:52 PM (#5551603)
Rocky Dies Yellow is from the Jimmy Cagney movie. Pat OBrien (priest) asks him to be scared going to the electric chair so the Dead End Kids won't think of him as an idol.

The title escapes me, but I think it is Dead End Kids.
   1730. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:53 PM (#5551604)
Entertainingly brushing against today's men vs. women theme, however gently, was this Facebook exchange from this past weekend. It's between a man who was beyond certain that he'd spotted an error on "Jeopardy!" and his female adversary, who.... well, it's better when you read it.
   1731. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:02 PM (#5551610)
Interesting, from 2016. And from this it seems that McGowan felt that the "open secret" was not "sleazy casting couch guy" but was actual rape:

Rose McGowan claims a studio head raped her

Actress Rose McGowan tweeted on Thursday night that she had been raped by an unnamed studio boss.

Using the hashtag “#whywomendontreport,” McGowan said that she did not alert authorities because a criminal attorney told her she “would never win against the studio head.”

Though she did not identify the alleged rapist, McGowan said that she and her “ex” had sold a movie to him.

“Because it’s been an open secret in Hollywood/media and they shamed me while adulating my rapist,” she wrote.

“It is time for some goddamned honesty in this world,” she added.

McGowan has previously alluded to mistreatment during her career. In a Buzzfeed profile in 2015, she said that for a time she was “blacklisted” in the industry. She also spoke about the difficult experience of shooting “Grindhouse” with her ex-boyfriend Robert Rodriguez.

“I don’t like being humiliated, or somebody trying to make you humiliated,” she said about the shoot.

In discussing the allegations against Bill Cosby, she also alluded to her own experience of sexual assault.

“You are taking part of someone’s soul. It’s happened to me,” she told Buzzfeed. “It alters the course of your life; it’s altered the course of my life.”

The author of the piece, Kate Aurthur, wrote that she “mentioned a rumored serial predator in the entertainment industry, a powerful figure who is often whispered about but never exposed.”

https://pagesix.com/2016/10/14/rose-mcgowan-claims-a-studio-head-raped-her/


And this is from today. She fingers Weinstein as the rapist:

“@jeffbezos I told the head of your studio that HW raped me. Over & over I said it. He said it hadn’t been proven. I said I was the proof,” she tweeted to Amazon boss Jeff Bezos.

“I forcefully begged studio head to do the right thing. I was ignored. Deal was done. Amazon won a dirty Oscar.”

("Dirty Oscar" appears to be a reference to Casey Affleck's film.)
   1732. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:05 PM (#5551612)
Using the hashtag “#whywomendontreport,” McGowan said that she did not alert authorities because a criminal attorney told her she “would never win against the studio head.”


As is often the case, the real problem remains lawyers.
   1733. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:07 PM (#5551613)
She fingers Weinstein as the rapist


Oooh, that wording.
   1734. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:14 PM (#5551617)
Rocky Dies Yellow is from the Jimmy Cagney movie. Pat OBrien (priest) asks him to be scared going to the electric chair so the Dead End Kids won't think of him as an idol.

The title escapes me, but I think it is Dead End Kids.


Angels With Dirty Faces.
   1735. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:17 PM (#5551618)
Double Indemnity is a very good movie, but it shouldn't be in the inner circle for anyone whose viewing repertory extends beyond the AFI top 100. Stanwyck's made better noirs (The File on Thelma Jordon, for starters), Robinson was great but he's great in just about everything, and MacMurray played with Kim Novak in a similar and better Good Man Gone Bad movie called Pushover, where he's a police detective rather than an insurance salesman. As far as noirs go, DI isn't in the top 50, but then there's a ton of stiff competition in that genre, so that's hardly a slam. It may be slightly overrated, but not tremendously so. It's one of those movies that I'd want to see about every 5 or 10 years, but it's not remotely as good as Out of the Past, The Killers, Diabolique, etc.

Naw. That's wrong.
   1736. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:18 PM (#5551619)
Follow-up on the destructive Santa Rosa fire, as it relates to the Charles Schulz Museum:
The museum, which contains a slew of material including thousands of examples of original art, is without power but has not been damaged. Schulz's house was completely destroyed, including "a lot of Peanuts stuff," according to his son.
   1737. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:21 PM (#5551622)
Rocky Dies Yellow is from the Jimmy Cagney movie. Pat OBrien (priest) asks him to be scared going to the electric chair so the Dead End Kids won't think of him as an idol.

That movie and others, with or without Cagney, show that O'Brien had acting chops. See him especially in Torrid Zone with Cagney and Ann Sheridan. I hate to say it, but that movie begins with him playing off Sheridan and the movie would have been better if it had been kept that way. He (and she, too) was great with the repartee.
   1738. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:26 PM (#5551624)
I saw Double Indemnity in San Francisco's Castro Theater, one of the best movie theaters in the country. Even kicked off with a Wurlitzer performance. But I don't remember it well enough to opine on its quality.
   1739. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:31 PM (#5551627)
Oh, I see --
I'm sure you do.
"troll" means "expresses an opinion."
Nope, that's not it. But, then, you knew that.
   1740. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:31 PM (#5551628)
Just to give it some context, AFI has rated the top 100 American movies twice -- once in 1998, again in 2007. In the 1998 version, Double Indemnity was 38th. In 2007, its reputation apparently ascending, it ranked 29th.
   1741. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:01 PM (#5551638)
Nope, that's not it.


Nope, that's not it. She really is not attractive.(*) There are plenty of easily discoverable images of her, including a bunch from her prime.

(*) In my opinion. of course. And, no, contrary to your fever swamp dreams, I didn't come on the internet and express a fake opinion of an actress whose prime was 70 years ago who I don't care a lick about. Sorry to break it to you. But carry on.
   1742. zenbitz Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:11 PM (#5551656)
It is the mark of an excellent troll that he (or she) can make people scramble to the archive to prove that they said something -- like for example if SBB ever claimed to be a lawyer.

And /salute SBB, you are a *very* good troll. He even has a really good ratio (1:300?) of totally reasonable posts that a troll wouldn't make, e..g, "I'd join ISIS if it would rid the world of that commercial."

I have two words for anyone who is unconvinced of his trolling nature: Jack Morris.
   1743. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:13 PM (#5551670)
I have two words for anyone who is unconvinced of his trolling nature: Jack Morris.

That's Jack "The Jack" Morris to you, pal.
   1744. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:15 PM (#5551676)
SBB, I think the idea was that her attractiveness ought not to matter in your assessment of her acting ability.

I'm very shallow though, I'll admit that I want my actresses to be pretty.
   1745. Lassus Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:15 PM (#5551678)
I saw Double Indemnity in San Francisco's Castro Theater, one of the best movie theaters in the country.

Lived up the street. Went regularly. Miss San Francisco something awful.
   1746. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:19 PM (#5551693)
I have two Castro theater related artworks on my wall. A woodcut of the theater itself - there's a Bette Davis movie on the marquee - and a poster from a film festival event where the hipster LA-via-Cambodia rock band Dengue Fever scored the silent dinosaur movie The Lost World.
   1747. Lassus Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:22 PM (#5551703)
Entertainingly brushing against today's men vs. women theme, however gently, was this Facebook exchange from this past weekend. It's between a man who was beyond certain that he'd spotted an error on "Jeopardy!" and his female adversary, who.... well, it's better when you read it.

The commentariat thread is actually way more interesting than the article.
   1748. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:23 PM (#5551712)
ust to give it some context, AFI has rated the top 100 American movies twice -- once in 1998, again in 2007. In the 1998 version, Double Indemnity was 38th. In 2007, its reputation apparently ascending, it ranked 29th.

Thanks for the heads-up. DI is a damn fine movie, no doubt about it, and although I'm not much into precise ranking, it's okay with me. For some time auteurist critics like Sarris didn't consider Wilder a true great auteurist. He wasn't inner-circle, top-tier. I believe Sarris ended up making a public apology to Wilder at some sort of gathering.
   1749. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:24 PM (#5551717)
Was that because Wilder's movies were not tonally consistent?
   1750. BDC Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:30 PM (#5551738)
Age of consent seems to be a perennial topic around here. A development from India is interesting and wide-ranging:

India’s Supreme Court on Wednesday struck down a decades-old clause in the country’s rape laws permitting a man to have sex with his wife if she is aged 15 to 18 - ruling that it was rape, and therefore a criminal offense.

Anti-trafficking charities in India said the verdict should help protect girls from under-age sex - be it with a husband, trafficker or paying client - and so extend their childhood.

Almost 20,000 women and children were victims of human trafficking in India in 2016, a rise of nearly 25 percent from the previous year, according to government data.

Wednesday’s verdict came after petitioners challenged the exemption in the country’s rape laws allowing husbands to have sex with minor brides. They said it contradicted other laws which put the age of consent and age of marriage at 18.

The two-judge bench said there needed to be uniformity in legislation, adding that the clause not only discriminated between married and single girls, but that it was being used to traffic children under the guise of marriage.


Oddly enough, the ruling parallels a new Texas law that went into effect this fall. Till September 2017, you could get married in Texas at age 16 with parental consent. Now 16- and 17-year-olds can only marry in Texas if they have an order "removing the disability of minority," sometimes called "emancipation of a minor" (but I will let our legal team comment if I'm using that term correctly or if it's even a proper term).

   1751. dog poop god Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:34 PM (#5551749)
   1752. dog poop god Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:38 PM (#5551764)
I'm very shallow though, I'll admit that I want my actresses to be pretty.


Okay, Harvey.
   1753. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:53 PM (#5551798)
Nope, that's not it. She really is not attractive.(*) There are plenty of easily discoverable images of her, including a bunch from her prime.

(*) In my opinion. of course. And, no, contrary to your fever swamp dreams, I didn't come on the internet and express a fake opinion of an actress whose prime was 70 years ago who I don't care a lick about. Sorry to break it to you. But carry on.
See, a non-troll says, "She doesn't do it for me" or "She's not my type" or the like. Those statements could be true. A troll declares matter-of-factly, "She's not attractive," in an obviously deliberately provocative way to gain attention.
   1754. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:54 PM (#5551799)
Unstoppable nuclear blowups, and also Iran:
‘He threw a fit’: Trump’s anger over Iran deal forced aides to scramble for a compromise:
President Trump was livid. Why, he asked his advisers in mid-July, should he go along with what he considered the failed Obama-era policy toward Iran and prop up an international nuclear deal he saw as disastrous? He was incensed by the arguments of Secretary of State Rex ­Tillerson, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and others that the landmark 2015 deal, while flawed, offered stability and other benefits.

He did not want to certify to Congress that the agreement remained in the vital U.S. national security interest and that Iran was meeting its obligations. He did not think either was true. “He threw a fit,” said one person familiar with the meeting. “. . . He was furious. Really furious. It’s clear he felt jammed.” So White House national security adviser H.R. McMaster and other senior advisers came up with a plan — one aimed at accommodating Trump’s loathing of the Iran deal as “an embarrassment” without killing it outright. To get Trump, in other words, to compromise.

“McMaster realized we just cannot come back here next time with a binary option — certify or decertify,” an exercise Congress requires every 90 days, said a person familiar with the July discussion. ...Under the expected announcement, Trump will declare the deal is not in the U.S. national interest while stopping short of recommending renewed nuclear sanctions. The deliberations show the extent to which Trump’s national security team in recent months has been occupied with navigating the future of the Iran nuclear deal, which Trump repeatedly vowed to throw out as a “disaster” during the campaign. The sometimes angry internal debate also provides another illustration of the way in which Trump’s gut impulses and desire for dramatic action have often collided with the subtlety of international diplomacy.

The Iran agreement, brokered by President Barack Obama, was never designed to do many of the things Trump criticizes it for lacking. Many of his own advisers — and many Republican leaders and key U.S. allies — see it as a valuable tool in stopping an Iranian nuclear bomb. ...Vali Nasr, dean of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies [said] “He doesn’t want to certify that any piece of the Obama strategy is working.”

...“You can do both,” Trump said Wednesday when asked about certifying or rejecting the deal.

...The pivotal moment in the administration’s Iran debate came July 17, when the president balked when presented with the recommendation of his national security advisers that he should submit the July congressional certification. He argued with aides, forcing a postponement of a planned announcement and a rewriting of White House talking points. The decision was clumsily announced that evening, hours before a legal deadline, along with a declaration Trump planned to toughen expectations and enforcement. The administration announced new sanctions on Iran over its ballistic missile program the following day. But only sanctions related to the country’s disputed nuclear program are covered by the 2015 deal.

...[Trump] made it clear that he felt strong-armed and that the July certification would be his last, several people familiar with the discussion said. Trump took the internal confrontation public in an interview with the Wall Street Journal in which he said he regretted the decision. The experience also further soured Trump on Tillerson, who he complained consistently came forward with only “totally conventional” approaches to foreign policy problems, people familiar with Trump’s thinking have said. It would fall to Tillerson and the State Department to try to negotiate new terms for the Iran deal, and ally after ally has bent his ear with arguments that the deal should be preserved as it is.


Following all of the above, one change to the deal could receive bipartisan support:
Congress may now do away with the requirement that the president recommit to the deal every 90 days, something that skeptical lawmakers of both parties mandated when Obama negotiated the agreement.
   1755. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 08:54 PM (#5551801)
Was that because Wilder's movies were not tonally consistent?

Yeah, I think that was part of it I haven't read his critique in some time, but I think he, first, didn't think Wilder was visually interesting a la Hitchcock or Ford, both of whom are of course masters of imagery organic pictorial composition. Second, I don't think he thought Wilder's cynicism was authentic. He was more cynical than he had to be. I think he came to appreciate Wilder's very positive qualities--his wit, intelligence, and mastery over a number of genres. He doesn't include Huston in the pantheon either in that 1968 book of his. I don't know if he changed his mind on Huston. He should have.

Auteurist are something like libertarians. (Or the Amish. Or Red Sox apologists.) They can be quite doctrinaire, not prone to instinct or letting feeling be their guide. How else can you explain Blake Edwards ranking over Billy Wilder? I think that's why Kael hated them. She was all about going with her gut and then letting her brain justify her gut feeling. She didn't let doctrine dictate what she thought was good or bad. As should be obvious, both positions have something going for them. Sarris I think was generally more polite about their differences.
   1756. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 09:09 PM (#5551849)
I've always found the hubbub around auteur theory a bit puzzling. It seems elementary to me that the director is the significant artistic voice in a film, and that the most interesting directors will tend to have a recognizable style. Were people really unaware that Alfred Hitchcock was an "auteur" before some French theorist showed up and let them know? But I suppose I have very little familiarity with how people spoke about movies in the 50s and before.
   1757. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 09:10 PM (#5551855)
She was no beauty queen ever, but she's quite attractive here

She's quite attractive here I think. Of course, what she really has is enormous presence. If she were a star now, of course her nose would be fixed. I think it says something about her and others like Davis and Hepburn and Dunne and most other big female stars of the 30's that they weren't beauties but were nevertheless considered very attractive, (although there were some who were--Lombard and Lamarr, for instance).

I couldn't find my favorite scene in Ball of Fire where she sneers seductively at Cooper, "A little sunlight on my hair and you have to water your neck." (He had confessed to her he found her particularly alluring once when the sunlight highlighted her hair and he had to apply cold compresses to his neck.)
   1758. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 09:14 PM (#5551868)
Were people really unaware that Alfred Hitchcock was an "auteur" before some French theorist showed up and let them know?

I think it was the fact that he and Ford were so obviously the creators of their films that drove those theorists to come up with the theory. Then it was a matter finding less obvious other auteurists to include. And even now, some very excellent directors like Wyler aren't in the pantheon because they don't seem to be auteurist. He just made a hell of a lot of good movies. A superb craftsman.
   1759. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2017 at 09:26 PM (#5551922)
#1748/1749:
For some time auteurist critics like Sarris didn't consider Wilder a true great auteurist. He wasn't inner-circle, top-tier. I believe Sarris ended up making a public apology to Wilder at some sort of gathering.

Was that because Wilder's movies were not tonally consistent?



Bad timing! Several months ago, I took Sarris' original book out of the library. In "The American Cinema" (1968), he defined "the Pantheon" of great U.S. directors, or foreign-born directors who spent a lot of time making American movies like Hitchcock, Lubitsch, Chaplin, and strangely, Renoir (who didn't spend a lot of time making American movies). I guess Sarris must have REALLY liked Jean Renoir.

I think there were just 15 directors ranked in Sarris' pantheon. Billy Wilder was consigned to one of the lower tiers, alongside other wannabes like Kubrick, and Wyler, and Lean, and behind figures like Gregory La Cava (hmm) and Blake Edwards (WTF?). It was 1968; I guess Sarris must have REALLY liked "The Great Race." And I guess the book was in the can before "2001" came out.

Without the book or being able to quote him, I think Sarris was of the mind that Wilder's trademark cynicism wasn't acrid or sincere enough to qualify him a true movie great. William Holden giving a wiseass salute in his exit scene in "Stalag 17" probably dropped Wilder a whole tier by itself. I know Sarris officially reneged on his evaluation later, but I haven't seen that apologia so I don't know why.


#1756:
Were people really unaware that Alfred Hitchcock was an "auteur" before some French theorist showed up and let them know?


Yeah, they really weren't aware. It wasn't until the dog-end of Hitchcock's career, when he was doing "Topaz" and "Torn Curtain" and his directorial OPS+ was declining, that this became a commonly-accepted view.


[EDIT: A glass bottle of Wilder's "One, Two, Three" Coca-Cola to Morty.]
   1760. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 09:26 PM (#5551925)
I remember raising that point in a film class in college. Tim Burton makes immediately recognizable films. But they aren't good. Whereas, I dunno, Kubrick's movies are all over the map.
   1761. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 09:30 PM (#5551942)
Yeah, they really weren't. It wasn't until the dog-end of Hitchcock's career, when he was doing "Topaz" and "Torn Curtain" and his directorial OPS+ was declining, that this became a commonly-accepted view.

Maybe I'm being unimaginative. I just now remembered how bright a lightbulb went on when I went to my first arty video rental place, where the movies were arranged by director rather than alphabetically.
   1762. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 09:55 PM (#5552027)
I remember raising that point in a film class in college. Tim Burton makes immediately recognizable films. But they aren't good. Whereas, I dunno, Kubrick's movies are all over the map.


After watching "Moonrise Kingdom" I told Mrs. YR, "Wes Anderson is so good, but I wish he'd try to make something other than Wes Anderson movies."

I still feel that way. Oh sure, I'll go see "Isle of Dogs" when it comes out, and I'm almost certain to love it. But gosh, I'd like to see him direct a horror movie.

   1763. Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:02 PM (#5552050)
Ray in what context did I say fuuuccck thaaaaaaht? Just curious. I don't remember the exchange.


You sure it wasn't fuuuuuck perros?
   1764. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:03 PM (#5552060)
I really enjoyed Grand Budapest Hotel but at the end of it I felt just exhausted. It's too Wes Andersony! That one actually had an action scene (the skiing) but of course he had to film it with miniatures and that dead on right angle camera position. Is there any part of him that thinks, "man, wouldn't it be fun to make a real action scene?"
   1765. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:07 PM (#5552089)
People like Bazin and Truffaut were writing and theorizing about auteur directors in the '50s.

For anyone interested, this is a very good introduction to auteur theory (a 17-minute video):

The Origins of Auteur Theory

It discusses both Sarris's views on auteur and the backlash led against those views by Kael.


The Origin of Auteur plus other clips


   1766. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:12 PM (#5552117)
Yeah, they really weren't aware. It wasn't until the dog-end of Hitchcock's career, when he was doing "Topaz" and "Torn Curtain" and his directorial OPS+ was declining, that this became a commonly-accepted view.


So are you telling me that Hitchcock movies like Psycho and NxNW were not marketed as ... Hitchcock movies?
   1767. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:14 PM (#5552134)
I saw Double Indemnity in San Francisco's Castro Theater, one of the best movie theaters in the country. Even kicked off with a Wurlitzer performance.

The only time I ever went to the Castro in the few months I lived in the Bay Area in 1971, I got to see the world premiere of an even more entertaining movie: Tricia's Wedding. The producer, Mark Lester, was a business partner of a college friend of mine who introduced me and my GF to the fine art of movie hustling, and he comped us to tickets to the premiere. For those of you who've never heard of it, which probably means most or all of you, the movie was a lampoon of Tricia Nixon's recent wedding to Ed Cox, featuring members of a San Francisco drag group known as The Cockettes. Totally over the top, and funny as ####. According to Wiki, H.R. Haldeman arranged for a secret screening of the movie for White House staffers---secret for obvious reasons.



   1768. Lassus Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:28 PM (#5552187)
Tim Burton makes immediately recognizable films. But they aren't good.

Some certainly have been. Not a majority, but definitely some.

Are you going to make me look?
   1769. zenbitz Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:33 PM (#5552201)
That must be why women cry 12 times a week, while men... don't.

Have you actually been around women? You think there are basically no differences other than biology?


Emotion isn't biology?
   1770. zenbitz Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:36 PM (#5552211)
as SBB inanely declared to provoke this very reaction we're sharing.

Gee, why would anyone call him a troll?
   1771. Swoboda is freedom Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:38 PM (#5552216)
Tim Burton makes immediately recognizable films. But they aren't good.


I would call Beetlejuice good. Edward scissorhands is really good. Ed Wood too. Alice in Wonderland is visually stunning. I was never a fan on his Bat man movies.
   1772. Lassus Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:40 PM (#5552220)
James and the Giant Peach
   1773. zenbitz Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:41 PM (#5552222)
As is often the case, the real problem remains lawyers.


Are lawyers left or right wing? Because otherwise I can't decide if they are the problem or the real victims here.
   1774. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:45 PM (#5552243)
Some certainly have been. Not a majority, but definitely some.


Yes. Ed Wood is my favorite, and that's his least Burtony. His career started off with a winning streak. I don't know if Beetlejuice or Edward Scissorhands or Batman hold up, but they were popular and enjoyable and well done. But at a certain point he got into a serious rut of just making Tim Burtony Tim Burton interpretations (Sleepy Hollow, Charlie & the Chocolate Factory, Alice in Wonderland, Sweeney Todd, Dark Shadows) with the same actors, same look. In short, the more he dialed in his unique feel, the worse his movies got. He's a reverse auteur.
   1775. zenbitz Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:48 PM (#5552248)
Ray in what context did I say fuuuccck thaaaaaaht? Just curious. I don't remember the exchange.


Ray was just thanking the maker that since all Hollywood has been proven hypocritical because of their willful and blatant coverup of sex predator Harvey Weinstein, he no longer has to acknowledge that their liberal screeds, soapboxing and moralizing has any merit, and hence he can ignore it.

Or something.
   1776. Lassus Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:55 PM (#5552262)
Charlie & the Chocolate Factory

This was awful.


Sweeney Todd

I didn't mind this one.


   1777. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:01 PM (#5552274)
Sweeney Todd


The musical?
   1778. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:01 PM (#5552277)
Well, I think you get my point. The top of the wikipedia article states: "The term [auteur] is commonly referenced to filmmakers or directors with a recognizable style or thematic preoccupation." Burton has a more recognizable style and more consistent themes than almost anyone - certainly more so than Scorcese or Kubrick or Wilder or Coppola. If that makes him more of an auteur, then it's a stupid term.
   1779. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:03 PM (#5552281)
Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes ... boy, that sure was ... something ...

[edit] Now, there's one I want the full length musical version of!

Dr. Zaius, Dr. Zaius ...
   1780. Lassus Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:04 PM (#5552282)
Well, I think you get my point.

Oh sure. I have zero "auteur" opinions.


The musical?

Yes.
   1781. Ray (RDP) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:05 PM (#5552294)
The next good Burton movie will be the first, although I won't be present to view it as I'll never sit through another one. I wouldn't mind, but he occupies a good actor's time in order to produce garbage. That's the opportunity cost I see.

And he seems to have a weird hold over Johnny Depp.
   1782. Morty Causa Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:10 PM (#5552325)
That link to The Origin of Auteur references Tim Burton, and it also discusses why there are no good or bad movies, only good and bad directors.
   1783. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:12 PM (#5552334)
After watching "Moonrise Kingdom" I told Mrs. YR, "Wes Anderson is so good, but I wish he'd try to make something other than Wes Anderson movies."


Gee, "Moonrise Kingdom" was the second Wes Anderson movie I've liked of the 6 or 7 that I've seen (though it's no "Rushmore").



So are you telling me that Hitchcock movies like Psycho and NxNW were not marketed as ... Hitchcock movies?


No, they most certainly were. Hitchcock was a commercial selling point as early as the 1940s, as the fat British star director wooed to America by David Selznick. You can see posters for "Alfred Hitchcock's Saboteur" (1942) or "Alfred Hitchcock's Shadow of a Doubt" (1943), and that billing lasted for the rest of his life. The entire trailer for "Psycho" (which is one of the great movie trailers) is Hitchcock himself walking around the set alluding to things.

But Hitchcock was never looked upon as an auteur until his career was winding down, except by the French "new wave" faction who started doing so around 1960. He was always hailed as an entertainer and a recognizable celebrity, and eventually as "the Master of Suspense." No one was really evaluated as an "auteur" in America until the late 1960s, when the concept was taking its baby steps.

Hitchcock's "problem" was that he didn't do serious, artistic pictures by the stuffy 1940s-50s standards of that kind of thing. He did "Hitchcock movies"-- stylish and jolty and fun, but not grown-up work like Elia Kazan or Otto Preminger. It's one reason why Hitchcock was 0-for-5 as an Oscar-nominated director, something that seems inconceivable in retrospect.
   1784. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:14 PM (#5552340)
That link to The Origin of Auteur discusses references Tim Burton and it also discusses why there are no good or bad movies, only good and bad directors.


I've got 1.5-2 hours of Cubs-Nats left in my night, can you summarize please? I don't understand the point.


And Gonfalon, thanks. That does make sense.
   1785. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:20 PM (#5552369)
The next good Burton movie will be the first, although I won't be present to view it as I'll never sit through another one.


Which have you seen?
   1786. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:36 PM (#5552451)
During most of the 50's, Alfred Hitchcock's name was probably better known to Americans by association with his Sunday night prime time TV show than by his movies.** His caricature appeared on the opening credits, he introduced the half hour movies, and he even made memorably droll introductions to the commercials. He didn't appear in any of the movies, but he was clearly the star of the show.

Not that his movies weren't popular, but that TV show was in living rooms every week.

** The link is to the full episode of one of the best of those shows, an adaptation of Roald Dahl's black comic short story Lamb to the Slaughter.
   1787. OCF Posted: October 13, 2017 at 12:45 AM (#5552847)
During most of the 50's, Alfred Hitchcock's name was probably better known to Americans by association with his Sunday night prime time TV show than by his movies.

Ah, the music. Funeral March of a Marionette, by Charles Gounod. Even if you never heard the piece, you'd have to say that the very title of the work was already perfect. As it is, instantly recognizable to anyone who ever heard it, and utterly inseparable in memory from that show - perhaps even more inseparable than the last section of the William Tell Overture is to the Lone Ranger.
   1788. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 13, 2017 at 01:33 AM (#5552951)
Harvey Weinstein's brother Bob Weinstein has released this statement:
"My brother Harvey is obviously a very sick man. I've urged him to seek immediate professional help because he is in dire need of it. His remorse and apologies to the victims of his abuse are hollow. He said he would go away for help and has yet to do so. He has proven himself to be a world class liar and now rather than seeking help he is looking to blame others. His assertion is categorically untrue from A to Z. I pray he gets the help that he needs and I believe that it is him behind all of these stories to distract from his own failure to get help."

TMZ is reporting that Harvey Weinstein believes Bob Weinstein leaked the sex and harassment revelations to the New York Times. Weinstein also says that his company has known about his illicit actions for years. Harvey Weinstein's wife has announced that she is leaving him because of his "unforgivable actions."

I think it's safe to say that Harvey is NOT stepping down in order to spend more time with his family.
   1789. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 13, 2017 at 01:45 AM (#5552956)
And the AV Club describes, and provides video of, Seth Meyers' segment on Weinstein, and Trump, and Ailes:
One of the most predictably gross things about the unendingly horrific revelations emerging about Hollywood mogul and copiously accused sexual predator Harvey Weinstein is how fans of the accused sexual predator currently occupying the Oval Office have hypocritically turned Weinstein’s (and only Weinstein’s) criminally sleazy acts into a partisan political issue.

...Meyers devoted his “A Closer Look” segment to a broader condemnation of “the entitled mind of powerful, predatory men who are used to operating without consequence,” one that took on not just individuals like Weinstein, Trump, and disgraced and deceased Fox News head Roger Ailes, but— noting that three of the most powerful men in entertainment, politics, and news are all similarly implicated— the “systemic misogyny that exists at the highest levels of society.”

Meyers mocked the rehab-bound-for-PR-purposes Weinstein’s excuse-riddled apology for his shitty behavior on several uncompromising fronts. As to Weinstein’s stated “I grew up in a different time” nonsense, and that of an associate calling the producer “an old dinosaur” who needs to learn new tricks, Meyers scoffed, “Dinosaurs don’t learn new tricks— they go extinct.”

He also pointed out that the outwardly (sort-of) contrite mogul is already plotting both a “comeback,” and revenge, with him having threatened legal action against both the women who’ve come forward and the media outlets that published their allegations. As Meyers reminded us with some awfully similar-sounding clips from then-candidate Trump, bullying and intimidation is the desperate, cornered rich asshole’s M.O., as Trump infamously threatened to sue the many women who accused him of everything from sexual harassment to the sort of hands-on violation he bragged about in that “locker room talk” his buddies at Fox News and shame-averse Trump toadies like Kellyanne Conway and Sebastian Gorka continue to blithely excuse.

Going on to call out those like Gorka who blame women for daring to be alone with a man, and those who use this latest example of a wealthy male cretin to smear powerful women (like Hillary Clinton) for not denouncing Weinstein fast or forcefully enough, Meyers said, well, “enough.” “Can’t believe I have to say this but you should be able to be alone with a woman and not sexually assault her,” stated the suitably pissed-off Meyers, who concluded, “This should not be a partisan issue, and women should not be held accountable for the predatory behavior of men.”

...Meyers notes, “Harvey Weinstein was, after far too long, found out, and fired. Donald Trump has been found out for a year, and we’re still waiting.”
   1790. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 13, 2017 at 05:34 AM (#5552964)
After watching "Moonrise Kingdom" I told Mrs. YR, "Wes Anderson is so good, but I wish he'd try to make something other than Wes Anderson movies."

I still feel that way. Oh sure, I'll go see "Isle of Dogs" when it comes out, and I'm almost certain to love it. But gosh, I'd like to see him direct a horror movie.
What about all those Nightmare on Elm Street ones he did?
   1791. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 13, 2017 at 06:24 AM (#5552966)
SBB, I think the idea was that her attractiveness ought not to matter in your assessment of her acting ability.


Nah, it's him pissing on Furtado's fire hydrant. He's the domineering type and that type hates when other people come off as authoritative. He gave the game away earlier when he whined about my "authoritative" statements of the law.
   1792. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 13, 2017 at 06:29 AM (#5552967)
The next good Burton movie will be the first, although I won't be present to view it as I'll never sit through another one.


Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Beetlejuice, and Big Fish.
   1793. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: October 13, 2017 at 07:24 AM (#5552969)
He gave the game away earlier when he whined about my "authoritative" statements of the law.
You've never made an authoritative statement of the law in your life, and nobody would ever accuse you of doing so.
   1794. Blanks for Nothing, Larvell Posted: October 13, 2017 at 08:47 AM (#5552981)
You've never made an authoritative statement of the law in your life, and nobody would ever accuse you of doing so.


As if on cue ...
   1795. BDC Posted: October 13, 2017 at 09:10 AM (#5552987)
Burton has a more recognizable style and more consistent themes than almost anyone - certainly more so than Scorcese or Kubrick or Wilder or Coppola. If that makes him more of an auteur, then it's a stupid term.

I think what's stupid, or at least unhelpful, are the ideas that auteur always equals better, and auteur always equals director.

There certainly are some directors who have greater creative control than others. Ed Wood (speaking of Burton) was an auteur, and his films are inconceivably awful. Sidney Lumet was not an auteur – he seemed to spend his high-creative time reading scripts, choosing interesting ones, making and wrapping films, and then looking for another script. But his films are usually interesting and often very good. John Huston just filmed all the books he loved. Some of those films are really good. But they are very diverse.

Film is a hugely collaborative art, but there's a Romantic myth of the lonely creator that we can't quite get away from. (It really should only apply to writers, and sometimes not even to them if they have strong editors.) Later criticism like Thomas Schatz's book The Genius of the System and David Thomson's Whole Equation (and many other books) is a corrective to overly auteurish thought. Schatz positively values collaboration; Thomson seems a little bummed out at times by its necessity; but both recognize that nobody makes a film by him/herself.


   1796. Lassus Posted: October 13, 2017 at 09:21 AM (#5552991)
Gee, "Moonrise Kingdom" was the second Wes Anderson movie I've liked of the 6 or 7 that I've seen (though it's no "Rushmore").

Aquatic Life is definitely my favorite, everything else is mostly downhill from there. Moonrise Kingdom I was really set to love but it was so unbelievably twee it just seemed lame. I know I loved Rushmore when I saw it but I have a feeling (from clips on HBO as I've flipped around) it hasn't aged well, at least for me.

I've been meaning to see the Fantastic Mr. Fox (a favorite of mine growing up) but just never got around to it. I have a very hard time imagining Baumbach helped write that one.
   1797. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 13, 2017 at 09:27 AM (#5552994)
Aquatic Life is definitely my favorite, everything else is mostly downhill from there. Moonrise Kingdom I was really set to love but it was so unbelievably twee it just seemed lame. I know I loved Rushmore when I saw it but I have a feeling (from clips on HBO as I've flipped around) it hasn't aged well, at least for me.


Funny, Life Aquatic was my least-favorite Anderson film, and by a wide margin. Everything else I've ranged from "liked" to "loved" but this was an unfocused "meh" in my opinion. It's certainly his most divisive film from what I can tell.

Fantastic Mr Fox was great fun and a very obvious departure from his usual fare, although, again, clearly recognizable as a Wes Anderson film.
   1798. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 13, 2017 at 09:33 AM (#5552995)
Day 6 (7? 8?) of President Moron pitching a hissy fit because his cabinet secretary called him a ####### moron and now because of the FakeMedia reporting that Rex Tillerson called him a moron people might think he's a ####### moron.

What a ####### moron.
   1799. Greg K Posted: October 13, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5552996)
That must be why women cry 12 times a week, while men... don't.

It depends on what movies I've watched that week.

Though, I suppose I am a man in only the most technical sense.
   1800. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 13, 2017 at 09:38 AM (#5552998)
Funny, Life Aquatic was my least-favorite Anderson film, and by a wide margin.


The Grand Budapest Hotel just didn't work for me. I found it scattershot, meh, and predictable in equal measure, but it might have been my mood at the time. I generally like his films but they are very recognizable in general.

Not my favorite director, but he is OK.
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NewsblogOTP 11 December, 2017 - GOP strategist: Moore would have 'date with a baseball bat' if he tried dating teens where I grew up
(717 - 4:48pm, Dec 12)
Last: Trout! Trout! Let it all out!

Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
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NewsblogPeter Gammons: Splashes and notes from the Orlando Winter Meetings - GammonsDaily.com
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NewsblogYankees trade Chase Headley, Bryan Mitchell | MLB.com
(25 - 4:19pm, Dec 12)
Last: Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB)

NewsblogJack Morris, Alan Trammell elected to Hall | MLB.com
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Last: Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB)

NewsblogMLB Now: Billy Beane on strategy | MLB.com
(1 - 4:09pm, Dec 12)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogDerek Jeter's defense of Giancarlo Stanton trade was weak | SI.com
(43 - 4:08pm, Dec 12)
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NewsblogThis will be Giancarlo Stanton’s biggest New York adjustment | New York Post
(12 - 4:02pm, Dec 12)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

NewsblogOT - 2017 NFL thread
(388 - 4:00pm, Dec 12)
Last: PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina

NewsblogTampa Bay Rays make another small deal, acquiring INF Ryan Schimpf
(5 - 3:53pm, Dec 12)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogOT: Winter Soccer Thread
(337 - 3:50pm, Dec 12)
Last: jmurph

NewsblogRyan Thibs has his HOF Ballot Tracker Up and Running!
(357 - 3:06pm, Dec 12)
Last: taxandbeerguy

NewsblogOT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread
(1930 - 3:05pm, Dec 12)
Last: Athletic Supporter wants to move your money around

Gonfalon CubsLooking to next year
(322 - 2:52pm, Dec 12)
Last: Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-12-2017
(13 - 1:56pm, Dec 12)
Last: Der-K: downgraded to lurker

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