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Thursday, April 03, 2014

OTP April 2014: BurstNET Sued for Not Making Equipment Lease Payments

Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 03, 2014 at 01:59 PM | 4718 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: 7 million aca signees and counting, i-95 south, nc, politics

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   2101. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 23, 2014 at 10:56 AM (#4691876)
Avocados, along with most produce, will go up in the near term. This has more to do with California's massive drought than it does with anything going on at the Federal Reserve.

Yeah, there was a story about that I read somewhere just last week. My wife and I go through avocados at the rate of two a day, and for the first time in many months the local Safeway isn't discounting them under any kind of program. As a result, they've gone up from 77 cents or a dollar up to two dollars apiece. #### that, we're now just splitting one until the prices drop back down.
   2102. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 23, 2014 at 10:57 AM (#4691881)
I hear you on the limes Bob, I cook Mexican and Thai a lot. They're a dollar each here right now, and most aren't even as big as a golf ball. Avocados are going for $2.99 each most places.
   2103. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 10:59 AM (#4691882)
To be clear as to why TGF's repeated slanders of me are lies:

1. "O.J. Simpson is a double murderer who should be in prison for life." - not racist
2. "O.J. Simpson murdered those people because black people are violent by nature." - racist
3. "Bill Kristol's arguments in his latest op-ed directly put the interests of Bibi Netenyahu's government ahead of US national interests." - not anti-semitic
4. "Bill Kristol can never be truly loyal to the United States because he's Jewish, and Jews are untrustworthy." - anti-semitic

I have never made an anti-semitic argument here or anyone else. TGF is either stupid or a liar. Or both.
   2104. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:06 AM (#4691895)
I have never made an anti-semitic argument here or anyone else. TGF is either stupid or a liar.

He and you are in almost exactly analogous positions.

I don't believe TGF is a white supremicist, but he advances arguments sometimes made by white supremacists.

I don't believe you are an anti-semite, but you advance arguments sometimes made by anti-semites.
   2105. BrianBrianson Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:06 AM (#4691896)
Quinoa prices have tripled in the last six years. Clearly inflation is running at least 50%.
   2106. Greg K Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:09 AM (#4691903)
What you’d need to make in every county in America to afford a decent one-bedroom

I'm actually looking for an apartment at the moment in Regina, Saskatchewan. My memory is pretty terrible for what I spent at the pub last night, so I have no faith in my memory regarding increases in rent over the previous years, but let's have a go anyway:

I lived in the UK for three years so it's been a while since I had a place in North America (been running the old, unemployed out of grad school - living in the parents house scam for the past few months). Around 2007-2009 I think I was paying $500-600 a month. A quick look for places right now and it seems like I'll be in the $650-800 range. I think I was paying 520 pounds (damn this North American keyboard!) every 2 months...which I believe works out to roughly just over $400 Canadian.

I'll be working a sessional teaching job, just two courses. So it's possible it will be a net negative.

To Rants:
I've asked a few times and always forget, what part of New Brunswick do you live in? I'm heading out there to our bi-annual family reunion in St. Martins this July. Always have good fun in that province. The other day I was watching a documentary on the Bay of Fundy, and the talking head was saying it Fun-DAY. Everyone I know (and my family has lived there since the American Revolution) calls it Fun-DEE. This specialist has actually worked with some kind of natural preserve on the bay for 10+ years, so I kind of figured she'd know what she was talking about. Have I had it wrong all these years?
   2107. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:11 AM (#4691904)
He and you are in almost exactly analogous positions.

I don't believe TGF is a white supremicist, but he advances arguments sometimes made by white supremacists.

I don't believe you are an anti-semite, but you advance arguments sometimes made by anti-semites.


Well, no.

TGF advances an argument that says "black people" are intellectually inferior and prone to violence, as a group." That is directly arguing the white supremacist position. I have never made any argument equivalent to that. Outside of using "Goopers" or "Teapers" as a throw away category for "right wing nutters who annoy me" I don't make arguments to group behavior. I have never made a single argument about "Jews" as a group. I have never made a single argument that attributes bad characteristics to any ethnic or cultural group like that. Arguing Person X made a bad argument is not anti-semitic, even if Person X is Jewish.
   2108. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:12 AM (#4691905)
I eat entirely too much fast food, and I tend to get the same thing, so I can see inflation in action. Three years ago when I moved here, a Wendy's #1 combo was $6.66 (the number stuck in my mind for obvious reasons). Yesterday, the same meal cost $6.99, which means the price went up precisely 5% over three years. That's less than 2% inflation.
   2109. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:14 AM (#4691908)
find me some elite white sprinters. By which I mean somebody good enough to medal in the men's 100M at the Olympics. Since there aren't any and haven't been any for decades, let's move on


As a boxing historian (and I know how much everyone here loves my starting replies with "As a boxing historian") I wonder if you're endorsing the bias sometimes derisively referred to in boxing circles as "the brotherman bonus". The idea is that since negro boxers dominated the sport, especially at the heavier classes, from 1930-1990 (give or take) that this provides adequate evidence that negro fighters possessed an inherent genetic superiority that made them more successful as prizefighters (these natural gifts were variously hypothesized as thicker skin, denser bone structure, higher baseline testosterone levels, etc.), then any negro prizefighters from the early days of "color lines" are de facto presumed to have been superior to the mainstream white champions and should be rated accordingly in historical analysis. Thus, for example, Denver Ed Martin, "Colored Heavyweight Champion", should be considered superior to James Jeffries, "recognized" heavyweight champions. Because blackness. Steadier minds would point out that boxing has always drawn from the dregs and oppressed factions of society, perhaps noting the success of the ghettoized Jewish fighters in the early 20th-century, but how could you argue with such irrefutable evidence of genetic superiority?

This foolishness was seriously propounded by generally credible historians for reasons not unlike those expressed here. And then a massive wave of post-cold war Eastern European fighters came rolling into the sports in the 90s and largely washed away that line of argumentation (perhaps you haven't seen the most recent top-10 rankings). You'll still hear the occasional argument in favor of overrating negro champions of the early days but they no longer lean so heavily on the "obvious" natural superiority of the fighter in question and instead have to be defended based on record and film analysis just like any other fighter.
   2110. GregD Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:15 AM (#4691910)
find me some elite white sprinters. By which I mean somebody good enough to medal in the men's 100M at the Olympics. Since there aren't any and haven't been any for decades, let's move on
Do you really think that there isn't some "white" ancestry in any among Carl Lewis, Tyson Gay, Maurice Greene, Michael Johnson, Justin Gatlin, FloJo, Carmelita Jeter, Marion Jones, and Evelyn Ashford?

The estimates of how "white" American-born blacks are vary from 19 to 29% of their ancestry. Almost no African-Americans born here of parents born here have 100% African (much less West African) ancestry. Getting more precise than that varies upon the test but one number that gets repeated is that 60% of African-Americans are at least 1/8 white by DNA.

FloJo, for one, would absolutely be considered white in other cultures. Would that then lead you to posit that there was a white gene for sprinting?
   2111. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:18 AM (#4691913)
#2106 - I live close to Fredericton. It is Fun-dee, and its a pet peeve of mine when people call it Fun-day.....especially when these same folks would say they're going to get hammered on Sundee night even though they have to go to work on Mundee morning.
   2112. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:18 AM (#4691917)
The estimates of how "white" American-born blacks are vary from 19 to 29% of their ancestry. Almost no African-Americans born here of parents born here have 100% African (much less West African) ancestry. Getting more precise than that varies upon the test but one number that gets repeated is that 60% of African-Americans are at least 1/8 white by DNA.


Just. One. Drop.
   2113. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:18 AM (#4691918)
I was in Charleston for a wedding about a month and a half ago. I thought the downtown was really charming and the restaurants we stopped at were really great. Very strange and unsettling, however, to see the monuments to a bunch of treasonous a-holes.


I lived there for a year. Four years ago they had a "Secession Ball" where local notables dressed up in antebellum costumes, including Confederate uniforms.
   2114. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:19 AM (#4691919)
You'd have to go back decades just to see a white man in the final 100M Olympic heat, let alone win a medal. That's simply a fact. The guys who have won all those medals over those years? Men we'd refer to as "black". No east asians, no southeast asians, no middle easterners, no white guys. Not one. What does that prove? Not much. But it's an interesting set of data points that merits further consideration and research. As equality of opportunity increases and artificial limitations to participation decrease, inherent ability becomes increasingly important.


I am not a genetics expert, but it strikes me as foolish to judge a groups genetics (and propensity therein) by the outliers. Olympic sprint finalists are extreme outliers.

If you are saying at the high end it appears that there is a genetic advantage in sprinting that might be more defensible, but to generalize the high end results to the general populace seems very dicey.

Even if you assume genetics play a huge role and are significant in whatever you are analyzing, using the outlier results to generalize back to the general population makes some assumptions about the distribution of the significant "genes" throughout the groups population, and those assumptions may not be valid.

For example if "West African" genes move the whole "sprint curve" to the right relative to the rest of the world then maybe your assumption is valid. If instead it stretches out the bell curve, making both tails longer but not changing the average then your base assumption that "they are better at sprinting" is wrong. Similarly it could change the distribution in many other ways.

In summary using outliers to generalize is basically foolish.
   2115. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:20 AM (#4691921)
As a boxing historian (and I know how much everyone here loves my starting replies with "As a boxing historian")

YC, you couldn't post enough boxing lore and analysis to suit me. It's one of the enjoyable facets of this unusual diamond that is Baseball Think Factory.
   2116. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:22 AM (#4691924)
Well, no.

TGF advances an argument that says "black people" are intellectually inferior and prone to violence, as a group." That is directly arguing the white supremacist position. I have never made any argument equivalent to that. Outside of using "Goopers" or "Teapers" as a throw away category for "right wing nutters who annoy me" I don't make arguments to group behavior. I have never made a single argument about "Jews" as a group. I have never made a single argument that attributes bad characteristics to any ethnic or cultural group like that. Arguing Person X made a bad argument is not anti-semitic, even if Person X is Jewish.


You hold Israel to impossibly high standards of behavior, vs. holding their Arab enemies to no standards whatsoever. This is the classic party line of Leftist anti-semites.
   2117. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:22 AM (#4691925)
And then a massive wave of post-cold war Eastern European fighters came rolling into the sports in the 90s and largely washed away that line of argumentation


Well, you know those Slavs, they don't really feel pain like other people...

You'd have to go back decades just to see a white man in the final 100M Olympic heat, let alone win a medal. That's simply a fact. The guys who have won all those medals over those years? Men we'd refer to as "black". No east asians, no southeast asians, no middle easterners, no white guys. Not one. What does that prove? Not much. But it's an interesting set of data points that merits further consideration and research.


And Hungarians dominate water polo, so Magyars must be naturally buoyant.
   2118. Morty Causa Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:23 AM (#4691927)
Watch it. What is socially and politically desirable is a poor way to go after scientific truth--any truth, really. The way I see it is that TGF is advancing the theoretical argument that not all groups of people have to necessarily be the same in all ways--and that includes mental ways. Why that is such a mind-blowing outrage of staggering proportions to some people has to do with things beyond the search for what is true.
   2119. spike Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:25 AM (#4691928)
Meanwhile, in today's awesome, the husband cuckolded by Dinesh D'Souza has produced audiotapes of his adulterous wife discussing D’Souza’s plan should he get caught making the illegal donations.

link
   2120. Greg K Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:30 AM (#4691935)
I was in Charleston for a wedding about a month and a half ago. I thought the downtown was really charming and the restaurants we stopped at were really great. Very strange and unsettling, however, to see the monuments to a bunch of treasonous a-holes.


I lived there for a year. Four years ago they had a "Secession Ball" where local notables dressed up in antebellum costumes, including Confederate uniforms.

I was on a road trip up from Florida to Toronto last month and we stopped in a few places with war monuments. Lynchburg's was pretty neat as there were a series of them laid of chronologically on the way up a hill to the courthouse [my God is that town hilly]. There was one is St. Augustine, Florida commemorating the Confederate dead, which was interesting to see. I suppose it's not equivalent for a host of reasons, but it reminded me a bit of how Louis Riel (executed by the Canadian government for treason) is celebrated as a hero in many parts of Canada.
   2121. spike Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:30 AM (#4691936)
You hold Israel to impossibly high standards of behavior, vs. holding their Arab enemies to no standards whatsoever. This is the classic party line of Leftist anti-semites.

Even if this is true, since when is opposition to Israel the political entity the equivalent of anti-semitism?
   2122. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM (#4691941)
Even if this is true, since when is opposition to Israel the political entity the equivalent of anti-semitism?

It's not equivalent, but there's like an 80% overlap in those views.
   2123. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:32 AM (#4691942)
I was on a road trip up from Florida to Toronto last month and we stopped in a few places with war monuments.


Your refusal to swing over to Montgomery to take in the First White House of the Confederacy, a couple of miles from my house, is duly noted & hereby goes on your permanent record.
   2124. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:33 AM (#4691944)
Getting back to inflation, I didn't even mention the price of an education.

From a recent CBC article:

According to the data, which track tuition costs from 1975 to 2013, the average number of minimum-wage hours needed to pay for an undergraduate degree in 1975 was 230. That number went up nearly 2½ times to 570 by 2013.

Professional faculties have seen the steepest increases. A dentistry student would have had to work 286 hours at a minimum-wage job in 1975 to afford the tuition fee then of $664.

In 2013, that same student had to labour for 1,711 hours to pay annual tuition costs of $17,324.
   2125. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:34 AM (#4691945)
You hold Israel to impossibly high standards of behavior, vs. holding their Arab enemies to no standards whatsoever. This is the classic party line of Leftist anti-semites.


No he doesn't, as far as I can tell from his postings. I, unlike many posters here and the Shrub, lack the ability to see into people's souls and know their character.

Personally I am regularly disappointed by both Israel and the various Arab nations and peoples. I do hold Israel to a higher standard, but that is because I hold democracies to a higher standard and also because they proclaim they are better and if you do that you darn well better act the role you are claiming. Also they are a US ally and beneficiary of much more US aid of all sorts, and should be held accountable for that as well.
   2126. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:34 AM (#4691947)
Even if this is true, since when is opposition to Israel the political entity the equivalent of anti-semitism?

It's not equivalent, but there's like an 80% overlap in those views.


This is a very unfair statement.
   2127. Mefisto Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:35 AM (#4691948)
Avocados, along with most produce, will go up in the near term. This has more to do with California's massive drought than it does with anything going on at the Federal Reserve.


Yep. CA produces roughly 50% of the nation's fruits and vegetables and nuts (over 90% of many of them), and we're in a very severe drought. This has nothing to do with monetary policy.
   2128. spike Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4691950)
It's not equivalent, but there's like an 80% overlap in those views.

So it's not, but close enough to call Sam a Leftist anti-semite. And 80%? Another classic snapper made up on the spot BS assertion.


Does this mean Israelis that oppose the political goals of their government are 80% anti-semitic, as well?
   2129. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:37 AM (#4691951)
war monuments


More accurately known as "Second Place Monuments", "Monuments to Treason", and "Monuments trying to Excuse the Inexcusable".
   2130. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:37 AM (#4691952)
You hold Israel to impossibly high standards of behavior, vs. holding their Arab enemies to no standards whatsoever.


No. I hold governments who receive billions of dollars of US support annually to higher standards than I do governments who do not. See also Egypt. I also refuse to ignore apartheid policies just because Israel does it. (I have never supported attacks on Israel by Hamas or Hezbollah; I have argued against treating every single Palestinian on the planet as if they are members of those organizations, simply because they're Palestinian. This is part and parcel to not judging people based on group generalizations.)
   2131. formerly dp Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:37 AM (#4691953)
Why that is such a mind-blowing outrage of staggering proportions to some people has to do with things beyond the search for is true.
It has more to do with his staggering lack of awareness of previous claims to truth on the subject. The 'white supremacy' of the past was underpinned by exactly the same sort of pseudoscientifc claims TGF's advancing here: people with with a particular skin color possessed essential genetic and temperamental characteristics that made them particularly well-suited for certain types of work, and unsuited for others (including, conveniently for whites, a lack of mental capacity among Africans for self-rule). White supremacy wasn't some unhinged and evil set of worldviews: it was supported by a whole network of truth claims that legitimated its operation. TGF wants to just handwave away the resemblances because acknowledging them undermines the notion that the science of race is an autonomous domain of truth-seeking.
   2132. GregD Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:38 AM (#4691955)
Watch it. What is socially and politically desirable is a poor way to go after scientific truth--any truth, really. The way I see it is that TGF is advancing the theoretical argument that not all groups of people have to necessarily be the same in all ways--and that includes mental ways. Why that is such a mind-blowing outrage of staggering proportions to some people has to do with things beyond the search for what is true.
Not at all what's happening here. What we're talking about is quality of data. The Kalenjin hypothesis vs the "West African" hypothesis illustrate how terrible the data on a sprinting genetic advantage is. That's the opposite of denialism, that's rational skepticism at work.

Everyone should live in a state of doubt about their own knowledge and beliefs; I freely confess that I don't know for a certainty what role individual, much less group, genetic tendencies play in relation to environment and culture and other factors in part because I'm not an expert and in part because the experts themselves can't know for a certainty.

But expressing certainty about the genetic meaning of "black" and about a small number of sprinters from widely dispersed places is the opposite of rational skepticism. It's faith-based belief, as is illustrated by the incredible difference between the "data" on "West African ancestry" and sprinting compared to Kalenjins and marathons.
   2133. OCF Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:39 AM (#4691956)
I coach an elite high school math competition group. What does it look like, demographically? Something like 85% male and 85% Asian. And that's not really all Asian groups, but mostly Chinese and Korean. Some of the ones with Anglo names are actually white-Asian biracial, and almost half of the whites are immigrants or children of immigrants, largely from Eastern Europe. The only conclusion I can draw from that: certain social forces are so overwhelmingly strong that trying to look for any other signals (such as genetic) in the presence of such forces would be a fool's errand.
   2134. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:41 AM (#4691962)
The way I see it is that TGF is advancing the theoretical argument that not all groups of people have to necessarily be the same in all ways--and that includes mental ways.


No, that's been my position GF's position is that some of these things are not theoretical, but rather have been proven/established.
   2135. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:42 AM (#4691965)
So it's not, but close enough to call Sam a Leftist anti-semite. And 80%? Another classic snapper made up on the spot BS assertion.

Does this mean Israelis that oppose the political goals of their government are 80% anti-semitic, as well?


If you read my comment, you'd see I specifically said that I don't believe Sam is anti-semitic.

This is a very unfair statement.

Really? The Arab and other Islamic opponents of Israel are blatant in their anti-semitism. The European left, barely tries to hide it.
   2136. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:42 AM (#4691966)
Watch it. What is socially and politically desirable is a poor way to go after scientific truth--any truth, really.


But TGF is not an impartial seeker of truth. He trumpets anything that favors his world view, however shoddy, while at the same time dismissing or ignoring hard data that cuts the other way.


The way I see it is that TGF is advancing the theoretical argument that not all groups of people have to necessarily be the same in all ways--and that includes mental ways.


He is certainly not doing so. He is linking that idea to race, which is a completely discredited idea in biology. I'll let John Wilkins explain succinctly:

So, do I think there are races in biology as well as culture? No. Nothing I have seen indicates that humans nicely group into distinct populations of less than the 54 found by Feldman’s group (probably a lot more – for instance, Papua New Guinea is not represented in their sample set). And this leads us to the paper by the Human Race and Ethnicity Working Group (rare to see a paper that doesn’t list all the authors). They rightly observe that while there are continental differences in genetics, there is no hard division, and genetic variation doesn’t match up with cultural differences per se. There is a genetic substructure to the human population, but it isn’t racial.

   2137. BDC Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:43 AM (#4691968)
tuition costs [...] went up nearly 2½ times

According to data at the Chronicle of Higher Education, the median college president's salary in 1996 was about $125,000; in 2008, it was around $400,000.
   2138. Greg K Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:44 AM (#4691969)
Your refusal to swing over to Montgomery to take in the First White House of the Confederacy, a couple of miles from my house, is duly noted & hereby goes on your permanent record.

Hey, we had about three days to get to Toronto!

I think we stopped at St. Augustine, Savannah, some place in South Carolina I forget, Lynchburg (and the nearby Sweet Briar College, an all-girls private college in Virginia I had applied to teach at...didn't end up getting the job, that would have been a very interesting year I think), a tiny sliver of Maryland and West Virginia (we were in four states (VA, WV, MD, and PA) within about 20 minutes), and Ridgway, Pennsylvania (because my dad is from Ridgeway, Ontario and he wanted to see it).

In other words, all the main tourists stops along the way.
   2139. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:44 AM (#4691970)
Does this mean Israelis that oppose the political goals of their government are 80% anti-semitic, as well?


Not those are the self-hating Jews
   2140. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:45 AM (#4691973)
YC, you couldn't post enough boxing lore and analysis to suit me. It's one of the enjoyable facets of this unusual diamond that is Baseball Think Factory.

YC? Man, I guess all us Yankee fans must look alike.
   2141. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:46 AM (#4691974)
He trumpets anything that favors his world view, however shoddy, while at the same time dismissing or ignoring hard data that cuts the other way.


To be fair we all do that to some degree or another, I think the issue most have with GF is that he is more strident than most in insisting that he (and he alone) is immune to that.
   2142. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:51 AM (#4691979)
To be fair we all do that to some degree or another, I think the issue most have with GF is that he is more strident than most in insisting that he (and he alone) is immune to that.


There is that, and there is the abject refusal to acknowledge the history of his arguments. He's not exactly putting forth a radical new and distinct idea, regardless of how radical he thinks he is being with his "race realism." He's simply repackaging centuries old arguments, but instead of citing phrenology he cites cherry picked FBI crime statistics. But the arguments themselves are identical to the same white supremacist arguments put forth for centuries on end.

Refusing to acknowledge that, and refusing to establish what policy he thinks his "facts" should lead to, is simply unacceptable.
   2143. BDC Posted: April 23, 2014 at 11:51 AM (#4691980)
the incredible difference between the "data" on "West African ancestry" and sprinting compared to Kalenjins and marathons

Indeed, and you've made great points here, Greg. As I'll restate from the last page, the odd thing about the "West African" point is that actual West Africans are well down the sprint rankings among mere Japanese and Germans :) — while the East African long-distance runners dependably come out of given localities and families in East Africa. "West African" in this context is a hopeful grab-bag thrown together to preserve a racial assumption: since champion sprinters don't form a coherent genetic group, let's make one up for them and hope nobody looks too hard at it.
   2144. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4691985)
YC? Man, I guess all us Yankee fans must look alike.


It's the horns and smell of brimstone that causes the confusion.
   2145. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4691986)
Personally I am regularly disappointed by both Israel and the various Arab nations and peoples. I do hold Israel to a higher standard, but that is because I hold democracies to a higher standard and also because they proclaim they are better and if you do that you darn well better act the role you are claiming. Also they are a US ally and beneficiary of much more US aid of all sorts, and should be held accountable for that as well.

This makes no sense to me. Israel a small Western democracy, beset on all sides by enemies who would literally exterminate them if given the chance. They have been attacked since the very moment of their inception. The enemies of Israel specifically target innocent women and children, using their own women and children as suicide attackers.

To me, Israel gets a lot of credit for being as restrained as they have been.
   2146. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4691987)
There's no difference between the Koches of this world and the Attila the Huns
Well, "no difference" except that the Koches haven't tried to do anything except trade.
   2147. Morty Causa Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:03 PM (#4691989)
But TGF is not an impartial seeker of truth. He trumpets anything that favors his world view, however shoddy, while at the same time dismissing or ignoring hard data that cuts the other way.

Well, I've given my impression, and I'll just let TGF make his own arguments, and they may very well include saying I'm entirely wrong about what he is claiming.

Nonetheless, people conflate and confuse the social and political with the biological. It helps, if you are going to engage in this sort speculation, to just think of it as groups and sub-groups, not as races, since that comes with so much noise and baggage. With any species, groups, and sub-groups, are we really surprised that there are ranges and hosts of variations? That doesn't mean superiority in any absolute sense, whatever that is, nor does it speak to every individual or unit within a grouping or groupings. It's about probable tendencies. I may belong to the "better" class, but that doesn't mean there aren't many within the "inferior" class who are better than men. Not only that, given a different context, that inferior class might have tendencies working in its favor. Nevertheless, there could be a tendency. Is there a trajectory of civilized, complex, technological societies and cultures? And if so, would those people most closely linked to that cultural evolution have a leg up on those that weren’t?

Yes, all that sort of thinking can be abused in social and political context. And that makes them different from other ideas exactly how?
   2148. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4691992)
There is that, and there is the abject refusal to acknowledge the history of his arguments. He's not exactly putting forth a radical new and distinct idea, regardless of how radical he thinks he is being with his "race realism." He's simply repackaging centuries old arguments, but instead of citing phrenology he cites cherry picked FBI crime statistics. But the arguments themselves are identical to the same white supremacist arguments put forth for centuries on end.

You can pretty much draw a straight line from the phrenologists through the Madison Grants through the Carleton Putnams to their 21st century counterparts like GF. Each generation a new formerly discredited group---the Jews, the Italians, the Asians, sometimes even the West Indian immigrants---gets admitted into the category of honorary whites, but the underlying message is always the same. At least the Shockleys and the Jensens had the courage to attach their names to their theories.
   2149. formerly dp Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:10 PM (#4691997)
Yes, all that sort of thinking can be abused in social and political context.
There's a difference between 'can be' and 'has been'. When you're drawing on ideas that have been thoroughly discredited precisely because they've been used for the political advantage of one group*, to the extent that they justified the torture (wasn't torture though b/c science shows Africans have a greater capacity for tolerating pain!), enslavement, and segregation of millions, you have an obligation to at least acknowledge that history, and further, to show how the present-day science on the subject is not simply replicating those past errors.

*Also because they were wrong.
   2150. Morty Causa Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:13 PM (#4692005)
There is that, and there is the abject refusal to acknowledge the history of his arguments. He's not exactly putting forth a radical new and distinct idea, regardless of how radical he thinks he is being with his "race realism." He's simply repackaging centuries old arguments, but instead of citing phrenology he cites cherry picked FBI crime statistics. But the arguments themselves are identical to the same white supremacist arguments put forth for centuries on end.

This all reminds me of Seinfeld and George when they say, oh, no, we're not gay--not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't want to get naked all by myself.

Can we ever have a discussion about this without the continual insistence on disclaimers, genuflections, and kowtowing at the conventional beliefs? Apparently not. Can we ever extend it to an overarching view of race and other ethnic differences, cultural and biological? No, it can only be discussed in terms of a very short span of history involving one very restricted special class--except they aren't in the broad scheme of history.
   2151. GregD Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:16 PM (#4692009)
What a strange complaint?

Several people have been talking about exactly how such a discussion might happen. Another person has insisted on implausible constructs as scientific markers.

And your claim is the first group is the one that won't have a discussion?
   2152. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:16 PM (#4692011)
Here was W. E. B. DuBois's response to the white supremacists of his day back in 1920:

THE SOULS OF WHITE FOLK
   2153. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:16 PM (#4692012)
YC? Man, I guess all us Yankee fans must look alike.

It's the horns and smell of brimstone that causes the confusion.


As a good Jew I'll cop to the horns, but any sulfurous odors are most likely the result of your diet, which is heavy on baloney and sour grapes.
   2154. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:18 PM (#4692015)
Can we ever have a discussion about this without the continual insistence on disclaimers, genuflections, and kowtowing at the conventional beliefs? Apparently not. Can we ever extend it to an overarching view of race and other ethnic differences, cultural and biological? No, it can only be discussed in terms of a very short span of history involving one very restricted special class--except they aren't in the broad scheme of history.


Here's a link to Aesop's fable of the Boy Who Cried Wolf. You should read it carefully and try to figure out why it's meaningful here.
   2155. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:18 PM (#4692016)
This. The only reason they're not throwing your sorry ass in a mine for company tin (i.e. eating you alive) is because they're restricted by the government you claim to abhor. Your childish, naive notion of a state of nature that isn't nasty, brutish and short would be laughable if it weren't shared by so many similarly childish, naive people.
Assuming that were really true -- that the Kochs are as misanthropic as you are, and would go around enslaving people if they could -- I don't know how you think this undermines my argument, precisely because I don't "abhor" government when it's limited to doing things like preventing rape, murder, and slavery.
   2156. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:19 PM (#4692020)
This makes no sense to me. Israel a small Western democracy, beset on all sides by enemies who would literally exterminate them if given the chance. They have been attacked since the very moment of their inception. The enemies of Israel specifically target innocent women and children, using their own women and children as suicide attackers.

To me, Israel gets a lot of credit for being as restrained as they have been.


And here we hit the point: "beset on all sides by enemies who would literally exterminate them if given the chance".

Once this was much more true than today. Basically this is really old news that shouldn't be driving the narrative any longer. Israel has Nukes. None of its neighbors are going to be invading them. Ever again.

That doesn't mean it is all sunshine and bunnies. Far from it. They have to deal with "asymmetric" warfare. And while perhaps (I doubt it, but maybe) being a hardass is a good idea when you are on the verge of being swallowed up, it is really counter productive when you are trying to reduce tension and reduce the long term consequences around asymmetric warfare. In other words their tactics are nicely set up to ensure future generations of palestinian terrorists who want them all dead.

As the party with more power, certainly than the Palestinians, they should be held to a higher standard. But your analysis suggests they have much less power, and are the scrappy underdog (with a large well funded army and nukes). They are no longer the scrappy underdog.
   2157. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:20 PM (#4692021)
YC? Man, I guess all us Yankee fans must look alike.

Racist.

Or in honor of my typing skills, cacist.
   2158. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:22 PM (#4692023)
Several people have been talking about exactly how such a discussion might happen. Another person has insisted on implausible constructs as scientific markers.


The problem being that the people with actual knowledge of genetics don't support TGF's (strong) and Morty's (weaker) argument for "race realism." As such, they must be ignored, because it's more important for TGF to promote his theory of intellectual inferiority and violent natures, and for Morty to maintain his self-image as fearless thinker of difficult thoughts regardless of social costs, than it is to look at actual facts.
   2159. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:22 PM (#4692024)
Don't you just love conservatives? We believe in freedom, as long as it's our type of freedom.
I don't think any conservative (or libertarian) believes in the freedom of government employees to use government funds however they wish, without any oversight by the elected officials who run the government.
   2160. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:24 PM (#4692026)
And here we hit the point: "beset on all sides by enemies who would literally exterminate them if given the chance".

Once this was much more true than today. Basically this is really old news that shouldn't be driving the narrative any longer. Israel has Nukes. None of its neighbors are going to be invading them. Ever again.

That doesn't mean it is all sunshine and bunnies. Far from it. They have to deal with "asymmetric" warfare. And while perhaps (I doubt it, but maybe) being a hardass is a good idea when you are on the verge of being swallowed up, it is really counter productive when you are trying to reduce tension and reduce the long term consequences around asymmetric warfare. In other words their tactics are nicely set up to ensure future generations of palestinian terrorists who want them all dead.

As the party with more power, certainly than the Palestinians, they should be held to a higher standard. But your analysis suggests they have much less power, and are the scrappy underdog (with a large well funded army and nukes). They are no longer the scrappy underdog.


Yes they have the power now, but if they ever lose it, do you doubt their enemies would at best, expel every Jew from Israel? At worst, conduct a 2nd Holocaust? In that environment, it would be foolish to make any compromise at all in terms of security.

   2161. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:24 PM (#4692027)
Assuming that were really true -- that the Kochs are as misanthropic as you are, and would go around enslaving people if they could -- I don't know how you think this undermines my argument, precisely because I don't "abhor" government when it's limited to doing things like preventing rape, murder, and slavery.


As I've said before, David. You abhor government exactly as much as it benefits someone other than David, and you support government precisely to the point that it benefits David. It's not some sort of mysterious alchemy at work here.
   2162. formerly dp Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:24 PM (#4692028)
I don't think any conservative (or libertarian) believes in the freedom of government employees to use government funds however they wish, without any oversight by the elected officials who run the government.
You're misunderstanding the Fun Home incident if you think it falls into that category. No government funds were used for the program.
   2163. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:26 PM (#4692032)
Yes they have the power now, but if they ever lose it, do you doubt their enemies would at best, expel every Jew from Israel? At worst, conduct a 2nd Holocaust? In that environment, it would be foolish to make any compromise at all in terms of security.


While I think the actions of the current, right wing governments of Israel actually compromise the security of Israeli citizens more than not, it is their decisions to make as the lawfully elected leaders of that state. That does not mean I support my government's propping up of bad behavior by the Israeli state.
   2164. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:27 PM (#4692035)
Yes they have the power now, but if they ever lose it, do you doubt their enemies would at best, expel every Jew from Israel? At worst, conduct a 2nd Holocaust? In that environment, it would be foolish to make any compromise at all in terms of security.


So you are suggesting they should base their behavior, not on the world as it is and likely to be for the likely and foreseeable future, but rather on worst case analysis. Do other countries get this leeway?

EDIT: More to the point, I should judge them giving them this benefit of the doubt.
   2165. spike Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:28 PM (#4692038)
If you read my comment, you'd see I specifically said that I don't believe Sam is anti-semitic.

Oh no, you just conflated opposition to the country with religious discrimination and claimed he shares the majority of the views of anti-semites, based on a number you made up on the spot and asserted as fact like you do every day.
   2166. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:33 PM (#4692047)
3. "Bill Kristol's arguments in his latest op-ed directly put the interests of Bibi Netenyahu's government ahead of US national interests." - not anti-semitic
That depends what those arguments of Kristol's are that you're claiming to be disloyal.
   2167. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:35 PM (#4692052)
Oh no, you just conflated opposition to the country with religious discrimination and claimed he shares the majority of the views of anti-semites, based on a number you made up on the spot and asserted as fact like you do every day.

Wrong. I said he shares a particular view widely espoused by anti-semites. Not that he shares the majority of his views with anti-semites.

If the number is 50% of 80% doesn't matter. There are a lot of anti-semites out there (practically the whole Arab and Muslim world, plus lots of others) and they peddle the anti-Israel line consistently. One needs to be careful about lying down with dogs.
   2168. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:37 PM (#4692054)
That depends what those arguments of Kristol's are that you're claiming to be disloyal.


Not really. Again, if I claim X and his argument Y indicate a preference for Israeli policy over US interests, that is not anti-semitic.

If I claim "Jews are incapable of loyalty to the US, because they are compromised by their Jewishness" that is anti-semitic.
   2169. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:38 PM (#4692057)
One needs to be careful about lying down with dogs.


One does not lie down with dogs. That's your error. Claiming X is wrong does not mean I claim Y is right, even if Y is a sworn enemy of X.
   2170. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:39 PM (#4692058)
So you are suggesting they should base their behavior, not on the world as it is and likely to be for the likely and foreseeable future, but rather on worst case analysis. Do other countries get this leeway?

EDIT: More to the point, I should judge them giving them this benefit of the doubt.


Yes. Within living memory, something like 40% of the Jews in the world were exterminated. The current enemies of Israel include many people who openly celebrate this fact, and would like to repeat it. In this particular context, yes, the Israelis get a pass from me for acting on worst case analysis.

I extend a similar "privelege" to Poles with respect to Russia and Germany, Ukrainians with respect to Russia, and Tutsis with respect to Hutus.
   2171. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:51 PM (#4692073)
Meanwhile, in today's awesome, the husband cuckolded by Dinesh D'Souza has produced audiotapes of his adulterous wife discussing D’Souza’s plan should he get caught making the illegal donations.
I hold no brief for D'Souza, and don't care whether he's guilty¹, but this, from TFA, struck me as a rather odd use of "however":
The attorney representing conservative filmmaker and activist Dinesh D’Souza claims that the case against his client is politically motivated and that D’Souza is being singled out for prosecution because of his work to discredit and undermine the administration of President Barack Obama.

The New York Times reported, however, that campaign donation records and incriminating audio tape indicate that the right-leaning activist knew full well that he was breaking the law and was even planning ahead of time what he would do if he got caught.
What does the question of whether he was breaking the law, or knew he was breaking the law, have to do with the question of whether the prosecution is politically motivated and whether D'Souza is being singled out?

Also, reading TFA, it's ridiculously sensationalized. First, the tape is of the wife, not D'Souza, so it can't "prove" anything about D'Souza. Second, the claim that he was "planning ahead" about what to do if he was caught makes it sound like he was plotting to destroy documents and flee the country, or something. But in fact, the "planning ahead" that he was purportedly doing was, according to the prosecutors' claims about the tapes, "he might plead guilty, but would initially plead not guilty because that 'gives him a window of opportunity to get his story out there.'" Wow; master criminal there.



¹ Although fraud on behalf of a candidate who lost an election by 44 percentage points has to be the dumbest thing ever. Not to mention that Gillibrand outraised Long by about $15M to $700K; what could D'Souza possibly have thought an extra $15K would do for Long?
   2172. formerly dp Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:51 PM (#4692076)
One needs to be careful about lying down with dogs.
Always with the bestiality paranoia...
   2173. spike Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:52 PM (#4692079)
If the number is 50% of 80% doesn't matter.

It does, because you claimed it as fact and used it as the basis for comparison. Like AC130s, "No one in the US is even remotely close to subsistence level", poor people have "better material conditions than the average middle class American in say, 1950", literally every day, you just fabricate things from whole cloth and offer them as fact.
   2174. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:52 PM (#4692080)
Even if this is true, since when is opposition to Israel the political entity the equivalent of anti-semitism?

It's not equivalent, but there's like an 80% overlap in those views.

This is a very unfair statement.
Right; it should have been about 95%.
   2175. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:53 PM (#4692081)
No. I hold governments who receive billions of dollars of US support annually to higher standards than I do governments who do not.
Wake me up the next time you post about the illegal Turkish occupation of Cyprus.
   2176. GregD Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:56 PM (#4692086)
One needs to be careful about lying down with dogs.
If one cannot safely hold any belief that is shared by someone who is despicable, then is belief even possible?

This is a standard that cannot work, snapper.
   2177. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 12:59 PM (#4692091)
You're misunderstanding the Fun Home incident if you think it falls into that category. No government funds were used for the program.
No government funds are used for a government school's "reading program"? Were the people running this program and handing out the assignments volunteers? Not to mention that the original story linked above says:
The current controversy began when a committee of College of Charleston faculty members chose the book as part of a campus program that encourages freshman to read a book and then take part in discussions and lectures about it. The school purchased copies of the graphic novel — which includes cartoons that show two women having sex — for every incoming freshman and paid to bring Bechdel to campus to speak.
(Emphasis added.)
   2178. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:02 PM (#4692094)
Yes they have the power now, but if they ever lose it, do you doubt their enemies would at best, expel every Jew from Israel? At worst, conduct a 2nd Holocaust? In that environment, it would be foolish to make any compromise at all in terms of security.



The problem is that Israel's actions are directly harmful to their long-term security. Pointing that out isn't anti-Semitism by any stretch of the imagination.
   2179. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:02 PM (#4692096)
Not really. Again, if I claim X and his argument Y indicate a preference for Israeli policy over US interests, that is not anti-semitic.
It can be. "Kristol wrote a column opposing prosecution of Wall Street figures over the financial crisis. This indicates a preference for Israeli policy over US interests [because Jews control Wall Street and give their money to Israel, so prosecuting them would hurt Israel and help the U.S., whereas protecting them helps Israel and hurts the U.S.]"
   2180. GregD Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:04 PM (#4692101)
No government funds are used for a government school's "reading program"? Were the people running this program and handing out the assignments volunteers? Not to mention that the original story linked above says:
The state provides 12 percent of C of C's budget. I don't know how the particular budget line for this was handled.
   2181. Mefisto Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:08 PM (#4692106)
What does the question of whether he was breaking the law, or knew he was breaking the law, have to do with the question of whether the prosecution is politically motivated and whether D'Souza is being singled out?


Every person who breaks the law is subject to prosecution for a perfectly valid reason, which logically undermines (though doesn't refute) the claim of political motivation.
   2182. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:08 PM (#4692109)
The state provides 12 percent of C of C's budget. I don't know how the particular budget line for this was handled.
It doesn't matter how that particular item was handled, because money is fungible. I don't think it typically makes a lot of sense for a legislature to micromanage the curriculum at a college. But I don't think people have the right to state funds without state oversight over the use of those funds.
   2183. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:10 PM (#4692110)
Every person who breaks the law is subject to prosecution for a perfectly valid reason, which logically undermines (though doesn't refute) the claim of political motivation.
So when police pull over only black drivers for traffic infractions, the fact that the drivers actually committed those infractions "logically undermines" the claim that the stops are racially motivated?

Selective prosecution is not an argument that a defendant is innocent; it's an argument that a defendant is being singled out unfairly.
   2184. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:11 PM (#4692113)
If one cannot safely hold any belief that is shared by someone who is despicable, then is belief even possible?

This is a standard that cannot work, snapper.


Right, that's why I said one needs to be careful, not that those views are out of bounds.

The problem is that Israel's actions are directly harmful to their long-term security. Pointing that out isn't anti-Semitism by any stretch of the imagination.

Well, the actual Israelis don't seem to feel that way.
   2185. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:11 PM (#4692114)
It can be. "Kristol wrote a column opposing prosecution of Wall Street figures over the financial crisis. This indicates a preference for Israeli policy over US interests [because Jews control Wall Street and give their money to Israel, so prosecuting them would hurt Israel and help the U.S., whereas protecting them helps Israel and hurts the U.S.]"


When you have to cavort into such knots to make a theoretical case, your hypothetical is broken. Regardless, I have never made an argument vaguely similar to this.
   2186. formerly dp Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:16 PM (#4692117)
No government funds are used for a government school's "reading program"? Were the people running this program and handing out the assignments volunteers? Not to mention that the original story linked above says:
The national news stories are getting some of the facts muddied. The $52K for College Reads comes from a student fee specifically intended to be used to fund the program (something like $15/student IIRC). State money was not used to purchase copies of the book, nor was it used to bring Bechdel to campus.

GregD: The school receives 8% of its operating budget from the state (that number gets lower every year).
   2187. Mefisto Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:16 PM (#4692118)
Selective prosecution is not an argument that a defendant is innocent; it's an argument that a defendant is being singled out unfairly.


Duh. The fact that the person is actually guilty, though, demonstrates a prima facie reason to prosecute. Thus, the "however" clause you mentioned creates that prima facie case. If D'Souza wants to come forward with facts showing selective prosecution, he can do that, but that's irrelevant to your argument.
   2188. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:21 PM (#4692121)
Wake me up the next time you post about the illegal Turkish occupation of Cyprus.


That was actually a topic here while you were away
   2189. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:21 PM (#4692122)
The national news stories are getting some of the facts muddied. The $52K for College Reads comes from a student fee specifically intended to be used to fund the program (something like $15/student IIRC). State money was not used to purchase copies of the book, nor was it used to bring Bechdel to campus.


Free speech for me. Tiny American flags for you.
   2190. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:22 PM (#4692123)
Well, the actual Israelis don't seem to feel that way.


More than 20% do feel that way, and besides, even if 95% felt the way you say they do, that doesn't mean they are right.

Israelis should dismiss the advice given to them by those who wish them harm, but I think many have gotten in the habit of assuming that any criticism comes from those who wish them harm and thus dismiss it out of hand.
   2191. Publius Publicola Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:24 PM (#4692124)
I thought the downtown was really charming and the restaurants we stopped at were really great.


I'll second that. The restaurants in Charleston are indeed great and the waterfront is charming. The latent ante bellum racism is, however, not.
   2192. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:30 PM (#4692132)
Although fraud on behalf of a candidate who lost an election by 44 percentage points has to be the dumbest thing ever. Not to mention that Gillibrand outraised Long by about $15M to $700K; what could D'Souza possibly have thought an extra $15K would do for Long?


Logical thinking has not exactly been a D'Souza strong point throughout his career.
   2193. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:31 PM (#4692133)
The restaurants in Charleston are indeed great and the waterfront is charming.


In the spring.
   2194. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:38 PM (#4692139)
Right; it should have been about 95%.


So David, is the government of Israel the only one on earth that can't be meaningfully distinguished from the religion/ethnicity of most of its citizens? Or are you just assuming that the many millions of people on earth who despise the US government also hate Americans?
   2195. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:39 PM (#4692140)
So David, is the government of Israel the only one on earth that can't be meaningfully distinguished from the religion/ethnicity of most of its citizens?


If he's feeling charitable he'll include the Vatican
   2196. Publius Publicola Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:47 PM (#4692148)
When you have to cavort into such knots to make a theoretical case


Interesting malapropism.
   2197. Publius Publicola Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:48 PM (#4692150)
In the spring.


It's glorious there in October too.
   2198. formerly dp Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:51 PM (#4692152)
The restaurants in Charleston are indeed great and the waterfront is charming.

In the spring.
If there's a strong breeze.
   2199. Publius Publicola Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:51 PM (#4692153)
what could D'Souza possibly have thought an extra $15K would do for Long?


He was probably thinking it would solidify his conservative bonafides. But he could have saved his money because the episodes in infidelity already did that for him.
   2200. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 01:52 PM (#4692154)
Duh. The fact that the person is actually guilty, though, demonstrates a prima facie reason to prosecute.
No; it provides a legal basis for prosecution. But if one never prosecutes the offense, then it isn't a 'reason' to prosecute.
Thus, the "however" clause you mentioned creates that prima facie case. If D'Souza wants to come forward with facts showing selective prosecution, he can do that, but that's irrelevant to your argument.
My argument is that the article says, "D'Souza says that he's being selectively prosecuted; however, he's actually guilty." The 'however' clause there is a complete non-sequitur. Whether he's actually guilty is not relevant to whether he's being selectively prosecuted.
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