Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, April 03, 2014

OTP April 2014: BurstNET Sued for Not Making Equipment Lease Payments

Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 03, 2014 at 01:59 PM | 4718 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: 7 million aca signees and counting, i-95 south, nc, politics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 27 of 48 pages ‹ First  < 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 >  Last ›
   2601. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:01 PM (#4693507)
One of the talking points was that part of the cost of the war was the weakening of the Empire and the eventual loss of India, among other colonies.


I think the colonies were going away no matter what. The UK is not large enough without its colonies to be a superpower, and basically no nation has colonies like that anymore. The overwhelming trend is towards smaller nations, but then also collectives of those smaller nations.

The UK had a great run though and they should be proud. It is not like they are a backwater, they are a first world nation with a good standard of living and are part of the greatest alliance of nations (economic and military) the world has ever seen.
   2602. spike Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:02 PM (#4693508)
I'm hoping one of Scalia, Thomas or Kennedy retires in the next year or two

Kennedy perhaps. Scalia and Thomas are definitely "feet first" guys unless a Republican is elected president in '14. Both know the second they leave their entire judicial legacy will be undone rapidly, barring an extremely like minded soul getting the gig.
   2603. Flynn Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:03 PM (#4693510)

St. George's Day came up recently which offered an opportunity to be reminded of the class divide in England yet again. On facebook I had a few friends comment on being a bit unsettled by the various parades. The contrast between the exclusively white, 40-something working class males of the parades, and the absolute befuddlement if not downright scorn of the mostly middle class grouping of people I befriended while going to grad school and playing baseball there have for the day is a tad alarming. Especially considering, at least in theory, it's a celebration of the patron saint of the nation they share.


This has a lot more to do with who was waving the St. George's flag between the second world war and the late 90s - National Front racists - than anything else. In fact, other than the World Cup, it is basically still the main group of people who wave England flags around. England is not a nationalistic place, and I say thank feck for that.

There is rampant classism in the UK on many other issues, but there's good reasons that the middle classes run away screaming from that kind of nationalism. Almost all of my left-wing working class friends don't celebrate it either.
   2604. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:06 PM (#4693513)
The contrast between the exclusively white, 40-something working class males of the parades, and the absolute befuddlement if not downright scorn of the mostly middle class grouping of people I befriended while going to grad school and playing baseball there have for the day is a tad alarming. Especially considering, at least in theory, it's a celebration of the patron saint of the nation they share.

The Western "elites" have effectively seceded from their nations. This is yet another marker, and causal factor, of the national declines.

The relentless prole mocking currently favored by UK and US "elites" -- and oft-seen on these boards -- is unbecoming and disgusting.
   2605. Greg K Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4693514)
I think the colonies were going away no matter what. The UK is not large enough without its colonies to be a superpower, and basically no nation has colonies like that anymore. The overwhelming trend is towards smaller nations, but then also collectives of those smaller nations.

I'd agree, I think for about 25-30 years before the war the increasingly ridiculous cost of the empire was a fairly significant political issue.


This has a lot more to do with who was waving the St. George's flag between the second world war and the late 90s - National Front racists - than anything else. In fact, other than the World Cup, it is basically still the main group of people who wave England flags around. England is not a nationalistic place, and I say thank feck for that.

I'd agree with this too. I really only have one friend who celebrates St. George's Day and is proud of the English flag. And no one is more annoyed with the National Front types than him. I think it's his personal mission to make the flag an un-despised symbol again.
   2606. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4693516)
Was the America of 1978-79 defined by its "glory"? Of course not.


Now, now. Shaft was glorious. Hush yo mouth.
   2607. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:14 PM (#4693519)
Now, now. Shaft was glorious. Hush yo mouth.

He was indeed, but was also -- alas -- passe by 1979.
   2608. Mefisto Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:15 PM (#4693521)
Correct and they seem to have gotten better at getting just that.


Eh. Clinton (Ginsburg) and Obama (Sotomayor) don't seem to have gotten that memo. Even Breyer and Kagan were significantly older on appointment than, say, Rehnquist and Thomas.
   2609. CrosbyBird Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:19 PM (#4693524)
I haven't followed this discussion or the larger IQ/race debate closely at all, but it seems borderline absurd to assume that evolution and genetics have impacted every aspect of humanity except intelligence.

But they haven't, at least along the lines of race as you're defining it. It's not like blacks have better kidneys or weaker hearing than white people. Or like Asians developed a third eye.



   2610. zenbitz Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:23 PM (#4693531)
If someone could invent a humidity-to-energy machine, we're golden.


Hmmm... You would need some kind of natural humidity differential and capture it. Thunderstorms?
   2611. Flynn Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:27 PM (#4693534)

The Western "elites" have effectively seceded from their nations. This is yet another marker, and causal factor, of the national declines.

The relentless prole mocking currently favored by UK and US "elites" -- and oft-seen on these boards -- is unbecoming and disgusting.


Greg lives in Nottingham, ain't no elites there. UK elites live in London and London. He's just talking about some common, middle-class sneering, the type you get in Onion articles like this. People at Best Buy are failures in life, they don't deserve dignity!!!1111

But the opposition to mocking working-class people here is much stronger than anything in the US. It's a label people still take pride in rather than run away from. Whoever the American Owen Jones is, he doesn't have the platform Jones gets.
   2612. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:27 PM (#4693535)
Clinton (Ginsburg) and Obama (Sotomayor) don't seem to have gotten that memo. Even Breyer and Kagan were significantly older on appointment than, say, Rehnquist and Thomas.

Rather selective choice of the 2 youngest Justices, Rehnquist & Thomas, to typify all GOP nominees, as made clear by the list in #2535. Kagan was 50, when selected, a virtual teenager as Supreme Court Justices go. Even Ginsburg wasn't really that old when you consider the longer life expectancy of females.
   2613. The Good Face Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:33 PM (#4693541)
It's telling that you've decided to mock impoverished, marginalized members of the UK underclass for apparently no reason other than my showing empathy with their plight.


I don't know how to break this to you, but I am mocking you not my UK friends.


Why would you mock someone for empathizing with impoverished members of an underclass?

That's hysterical. You sure can live a high on the hog lifestyle on 72 quid a week. Do you read the Daily Mail or something?


Wat? Who says that's high on the hog? Those people pretty much live crappy lives; it's sure not a lifestyle I'd choose from a list.
   2614. zenbitz Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:33 PM (#4693542)
Why people are so squeamish about studying the differences that exist,


Because if they did, dumbasses like you would tie to skin color and other things "they already knew".

For the 1500th time OF COURSE intelligence is genetic. Everything biological is genetic. But it's PARTIALLY genetic and WHOLLY irrelevant because it's a marginal statistical predisposition for something that cannot even be measured properly.

For example - I am an Ph D biochemist / software engineer that got a "C" in college calculus.
   2615. Steve Treder Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:34 PM (#4693544)
Or like Asians developed a third eye.

But it would be just like them to do something like that. Sneaky little suckers.
   2616. zenbitz Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:34 PM (#4693545)
Wait, wat? Chinese intellectual history is pretty impressive, and plenty of Westerners commented to that effect well before the days of H1B visas and Tiger Moms. Japan too.


The are also industrious and deferential!
   2617. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:35 PM (#4693546)
I think the colonies were going away no matter what.


It's easy for us to see that now, but many of the European countries had to be dragged kicking and screaming to see the light- for instance our whole Vietnam nightmare flowed from France's desire to reclaim it's lost colonies, including one, Vietnam, where we had supported Ho Chi Minh during WWII and initially were all set to recognize and back his declaration of independence until France had a hissy fit over it. IF we had told France to #### off (and in hindsight that absolutely would have been the right move, but at the time we deemed France's cooperation and membership in NATO as essential) it would have saved EVERYONE (France included) a hell of a lot of grief.

   2618. Steve Treder Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:36 PM (#4693547)
it's sure not a lifestyle I'd choose from a list.

Yet they do, for a lousy 72 quid a week. Clearly they're, shall we say, on the lower slope of the genetically-determined IQ scale!
   2619. Greg K Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:36 PM (#4693548)
Greg lives in Nottingham, ain't no elites there.

Sad face.

Technically I no longer live there. But I am moving to Saskatchewan soon, which is certainly where all the elites in Canada reside.*

*Assuming you know nothing about Canada.

It was my experience in the UK that no one wanted the label "middle class", and it was almost treated like a dirty word - which seems like the opposite of the US. Most of my friends are middle class, but we'd be at a BBQ where someone brought mustard they'd made with their own organically grown plants, and bean-based mock burgers and my friend would cringe and say "this is the most middle class lunch of all time!" Of course, he wouldn't identify as working class either, but being middle class is something you never admit to and always harbour secret shame about.
   2620. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:37 PM (#4693550)
The relentless prole mocking currently favored by UK and US "elites" -- and oft-seen on these boards -- is unbecoming and disgusting.


The only US proles I scorn and mock are white southern evangelicals, working class white proles from other parts of the country are just fine imho.
   2621. Greg K Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:39 PM (#4693552)
In terms of how society views proles, I thought it would be interesting to compare the UK and US versions of Shameless. But I haven't actually seen the US version. It's such a British show, tied up with British class issues, that I'm curious how it translates.
   2622. zenbitz Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:39 PM (#4693554)
I'd like to see them replaced by a chimpanzee. Its amazing we've gone 200+ years with a Supreme Court, and not a single chimpanzee has served on the court.


2 thousand, 5 hundred and sixty-seven posts and it was all worth it. Thanks!
   2623. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:41 PM (#4693557)
...of course, I wouldn't trade the inevitable schadenfreude I get to enjoy when the Rick Perry's, the Rand Paul's, the Sean Hannity's, etc inevitably discover the newest and greatest folk hero is actually kind of an idiot.


you know when Glenn Beck of all people realized from the get go that Bundy was not someone to hitch your wagon to, you really have to wonder what was going on in some other people's thought processes.
   2624. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:42 PM (#4693558)
But it would be just like them to do something like that. Sneaky little suckers.
Somebody talked. Now you all have to die.
   2625. Mefisto Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:43 PM (#4693559)
Rather selective choice of the 2 youngest Justices, Rehnquist & Thomas, to typify all GOP nominees, as made clear by the list in #2535. Kagan was 50, when selected, a virtual teenager as Supreme Court Justices go. Even Ginsburg wasn't really that old when you consider the longer life expectancy of females.


I wasn't trying for a random sample, just pointing out that the Dem nominees have been older than at least some of the Rs. That was in response to the assertion that presidents have been getting better at picking younger justices. There were younger candidates in both cases, but neither Clinton nor Obama appointed them.

As for the longer life expectancy of females, that's a general rule but can't apply to specific cases. Ginsburg is a cancer survivor (post appointment, of course) and Sotomayor is diabetic (pre-appointment).
   2626. Morty Causa Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:45 PM (#4693563)
I haven't followed this discussion or the larger IQ/race debate closely at all, but it seems borderline absurd to assume that evolution and genetics have impacted every aspect of humanity except intelligence.

There really aren't many evolutionary differences between ethnic groups of modern humans. That's sort of the point.

Are there differences between breeds of dogs? Have other creatures that have undergone a geographical divide assumed different features. To deny that this could be so is to strike at the very essence of how evolution operates. Indeed, it flies in the face of mutability. If there is a different environment that a creature has to respond to, there will be change. And change can fairly rapid, evolutionarily speaking.

You have one group of humans in one place. Some of the humans left that ancestral place and migrated 30-40-50,000 years ago. The emigrants had no contact with the parent group for thousands of years. I don’t see how you can airily dismiss the possibility that the new group would evolve in some way that diverged in some significant way from the mother group than stayed behind. To think they can’t is to deny, or a least palter with, the effects of environmental constraints, it seems to me (and others). It’s to say that context doesn’t make a difference in a deep-seated way. It’s the time-honored reversion to the old time religion.

Now, those that deny significant change could be right, and it doesn’t matter. But, maybe not. Maybe a difference resulted in a change in features and attributes. How radical!
   2627. Morty Causa Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:46 PM (#4693564)
What's the point of studying to the ends of the Earth whether whites are, say, 6 IQ points "smarter" than blacks and 6 IQ points "dumber" than Asians? And then widely and loudly publicizing the findings of those studies?

Ah, now we get to it. What doesn’t it matter? People aren’t ready for this knowledge, and, especially, this different way of thinking. Think of the children. It’s the eternal objection/

What does it matter if the Earth goes around the Sun or vice versa? What does it matter if the Earth is round or flat? Do witches really float on the surface of water? Is confession by torture really sanctifying? Of course, women have fewer teeth than men (no, no, don’t ask me to count them). Why should we develop vaccines, cancer treatments, etc.—it just puts off our passage into eternal life with our God and savior? Movies are the tool of the devil.... Rock ‘N’ Roll.... Why go to the moon? You know how many food stamps that costs. How long has it taken atheism to get of the closet? But, then, what does it matter?

The fact is, in every instance, at the point of beginning of any new idea, when an idea is mooted, and I mean just merely hypothesized, not even theorized, we... don’t...know. And that which is mooted may turn out wrong, worthless, pointless (for the time being), even evil. We must still go there, if only in our minds. If I don’t, someone else will anyway, and he may not be the nice, forthright guy that I am.

At every cultural junction (at every point when the Universe changed to use Burke’s term), there was always a countervailing force that said, oh, no, we can’t go there. It’s much too risky. Risk is not subject to being neutralized—not in the overarching sense. As an intellectual threshold matter you need to decide what side you are on. The side of the seekers and searchers or that of the frightened hiding in their caves and fingering their rosary except to come out, their naked bodies painted purple and gold, feathers jammed up their ass, to dance in praise to the thunder and lightening. It’s up to you. But, if you are the last, you are on the wrong side of history and cultural evolution—indeed, you are an impediment.

It isn’t so much that this might not be correct. It’s that you have your hands over your ears and ears. You don’t want to see or to hear what you fear may contradict your preconceptions and biases. You want to assume that everyone is the same, and you do that for a reason—but much more as an exercise in keeping your ideology immunized. People fear those perceived social repercussions so much that they want to murder that baby in its cradle. (Wasn’t it the Aztecs that sealed a live infant in the cornerstones of their structures?)
   2628. Morty Causa Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:46 PM (#4693565)
Why did many (many) immediately, and I mean instantaneously, jump all over James Watson when he said what he did? Why was there no interest in trying to find out why he said what he did, why he thought that, or what he really meant. I mean, after all, maybe James Watson knows something about biology. There was just wild assumption and fear—we can’t go there, he has to be a racist to say what goes against unalterable divine law. This tells us a lot about how we make sacrosanct certain ideas that we deem so precious that we have imbued them with a complex of religious panoply. We do this kneejerk with a lot of ideas. We must make commandments etched on stone tablets. James Watson isn’t alone. There are many who cowed into silence, on this issue and others. Hey, man it was just an idea—it’s just raising questions. Why this immediate tendency to squelch it. It may turn out what you fear you fear for naught. Maybe staying behind, then being reintroduced into that new society and culture (environment) put pressure to make them intellectually stronger in some ways.

Everything you need to know isn’t encompassed in a Billie Holiday song. However true and affecting that song is, and authentic the passion underlying it, it’s by no means all dispositive word.
   2629. zonk Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:48 PM (#4693566)
This Bundy fellow is a laugh-riot!

How can I get him a bigger microphone?
   2630. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:51 PM (#4693568)
I wasn't trying for a random sample, just pointing out that the Dem nominees have been older than at least some of the Rs.


Roberts 50
Scalia 50
Kennedey 51
Thomas 43
Alito 55

Ginsburg 60
Breyer 56
Sotomayor 55
Kagan 50


Average age GOP nominee: 50
Average age DEM nominee: 55

Small sample size alert, the difference comes down to Thomas versus Ginsburg other than that the 2 parties are pretty much picking people in the same age range
   2631. Steve Treder Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:51 PM (#4693569)
you know when Glenn Beck of all people realized from the get go that Bundy was not someone to hitch your wagon to, you really have to wonder what was going on in some other people's thought processes.

That was Jon Stewart's line the other day: "Sean Hannity has made Glenn Beck look like the soul of reason."
   2632. spike Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:52 PM (#4693571)
You'd think after Zimmerman people would vet their populist heroes a bit more carefully.
   2633. zonk Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:55 PM (#4693574)
He's like Freedom Jesus!

   2634. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:57 PM (#4693576)
Why did many (many) immediately, and I mean instantaneously, jump all over James Watson when he said what he did? Why was there no interest in trying to find out why he said what he did, why he thought that, or what he really meant. I mean, after all, maybe James Watson knows something about biology. There was just wild assumption and fear—we can’t go there, he has to be a racist


Because while Watson may know something about biology, intelligence was not something he ever studied, and what he said wasn't even along the lines of old style "scientific racism," but more along the lines of of course black are dumber than whites everyone knows that I know that from the ones I've worked with. He wasn't even saying what GF is saying (or the Bell Curve guy, Murray), Watson was saying the same old culturally influenced racist crap my bigoted uncle used to spew at family gatherings.
   2635. OCF Posted: April 24, 2014 at 05:59 PM (#4693578)
They are also industrious and deferential!

A few pages back I made a post (ignored by everyone) about coaching a (mostly male, mostly Chinese and Korean) high school math contest team. And they're not all that deferential - at least not towards me. And do not stand between them and the food at snack time.
   2636. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 24, 2014 at 06:26 PM (#4693593)
Let's be fair here; you ARE one of the round-eye.
   2637. Publius Publicola Posted: April 24, 2014 at 06:36 PM (#4693601)
The are also industrious and deferential!


But kind of inscrutable, don't you think?
   2638. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 24, 2014 at 06:37 PM (#4693602)
Why would you mock someone for empathizing with impoverished members of an underclass?


This is empathizing?

Look at the UK, which managed to turn a mighty seafaring empire, renowned for it's boldness and industry, into a pack of trashy, drunken, violent, promiscuous, unemployable human garbage in 50 years or so, largely through government action.


Um, OK then. Here I thought you were impugning the current residents of the UK by calling them "a pack of trashy, drunken, violent, promiscuous, unemployable human garbage" and here I find out that is your version of empathizing. Huh, learn something new every day.

Next time you are in the UK you should go to a pub and "empathize" with the locals loud and proud. Let me know how that works out for you.
   2639. Publius Publicola Posted: April 24, 2014 at 06:40 PM (#4693605)
Watson was saying the same old culturally influenced racist crap my bigoted uncle used to spew at family gatherings.


And he backed off immediately when he got pushback from people he knew were much more knowledgeable than he on the subject.

Watson is kind of a dumbass that way. This isn't the first time he's stuck his foot in his mouth. He got kicked off the human genome project back in the eighties when he alienated the Japanese by complaining they weren't doing their fair share.
   2640. Publius Publicola Posted: April 24, 2014 at 06:41 PM (#4693607)
And they're not all that deferential


That's probably because they sensed they knew a lot more math than you.
   2641. OCF Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:03 PM (#4693625)
That's probably because they sensed they knew a lot more math than you.

I'll plead nolo contendere to that particular accusation.
   2642. Mefisto Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:08 PM (#4693626)
the difference comes down to Thomas versus Ginsburg other than that the 2 parties are pretty much picking people in the same age range


Except that Sotomayor's diabetes reduces her life expectancy by 14 years. See here. That makes her age of appointment more like 65 than 55 (with obvious adjustments for her particular situation).
   2643. Lassus Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:32 PM (#4693637)
The relentless prole mocking currently favored by UK and US "elites" -- and oft-seen on these boards -- is unbecoming and disgusting.

Seems to me the frequency and tone with which you and GF use "prole" is more disrespectful mockery than I've heard from anyone else.

edit - I guess everyone uses it. Seems overly dismissive to me, maybe not, who knows.
   2644. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:36 PM (#4693638)
Except that Sotomayor's diabetes reduces her life expectancy by 14 years. See here. That makes her age of appointment more like 65 than 55 (with obvious adjustments for her particular situation).

I think we can assume that Sotomayor, like all Supreme Court Justices, receives far better healthcare than the average person. Also, appears to be a bad link in #2642.
   2645. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:37 PM (#4693639)
I have mocked people on this board (when I think they deserve it). I have also mocked the GOP and other right wing idiots. I am not sure who else I have mocked. I am fairly sure I have not mocked any "proles" not on this board.
   2646. BDC Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:38 PM (#4693640)
We have the poor with us always. Unfortunately, we have them that blame poverty on the welfare state always with us as well.
   2647. Steve Treder Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:45 PM (#4693646)
Unfortunately, we have them that blame poverty on the welfare state always with us as well.

Well, you have to admit that they have the historical fact on their side that before the welfare state was invented, there was no poverty.

Or something.
   2648. Lassus Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:46 PM (#4693647)
I think we can assume that Sotomayor, like all Supreme Court Justices, receives far better healthcare than the average person. Also, appears to be a bad link in #2642.

Diabetes is crappy and frequent, but way more manageable than heart disease or cancer, and getting moreso every passing year.
   2649. GregD Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:54 PM (#4693651)
Are there differences between breeds of dogs? Have other creatures that have undergone a geographical divide assumed different features. To deny that this could be so is to strike at the very essence of how evolution operates. Indeed, it flies in the face of mutability. If there is a different environment that a creature has to respond to, there will be change. And change can fairly rapid, evolutionarily speaking.
1) Dog genetics are trickier than you think and the genotype/phenotype connection is slippery. (For that matter human DNA tests routinely misidentify something so basic as eye color, as even that allegedly simply genotype/phenotype connection we learn in school fails to work out about 5% of the time.)

2) Domesticated dog breeding is nothing like human breeding. Literally the practices could not be more different.

You have one group of humans in one place. Some of the humans left that ancestral place and migrated 30-40-50,000 years ago. The emigrants had no contact with the parent group for thousands of years. I don’t see how you can airily dismiss the possibility that the new group would evolve in some way that diverged in some significant way from the mother group than stayed behind. To think they can’t is to deny, or a least palter with, the effects of environmental constraints, it seems to me (and others). It’s to say that context doesn’t make a difference in a deep-seated way. It’s the time-honored reversion to the old time religion.


3) most of the emigrants in fact have had ongoing contact. The Mediterranean made a mockery of genetic separation. One reason why so few people test out as "pure" of anything.

4) Define a "group." Don't use words that are based on differing cultural understandings of phenotype that a) aren't replicable across societies and b) don't define an actual coherent group
   2650. Mefisto Posted: April 24, 2014 at 07:58 PM (#4693653)
I'm not sure why the link didn't work, but the url is http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110624182309.htm

No doubt that (a) diabetes treatment gets better all the time; and (b) Sotomayor gets better health care than most. Still, as the link shows, the net result is that those born since 1965 (Sotomayor was born before that) have a significantly reduced life expectancy. In essence, what we have is a situation in which no recent R Justice has been above the age of 55 when appointed, and one was very much younger indeed, while 3 of the 4 Dems have been above 55 (treating Sotomayor as some undefined age above her actual 55 because of the health issue). R presidents have treated judicial appointments, including SCOTUS Justices, differently than Clinton and Obama.
   2651. Steve Treder Posted: April 24, 2014 at 08:14 PM (#4693662)
Define a "group." Don't use words that are based on differing cultural understandings of phenotype that a) aren't replicable across societies and b) don't define an actual coherent group.

See, there you go getting all squeamish with your concern for logic and facts and evidence and established scientific protocol and all that lefty squishy pinky stuff.
   2652. zenbitz Posted: April 24, 2014 at 08:49 PM (#4693676)
I don’t see how you can airily dismiss the possibility that the new group would evolve in some way that diverged in some significant way from the mother group than stayed behind.


I can dismiss it because -- especially from you-- it's just a mediocre hypothesis with no purpose other than to inflame. I don't have a problem with doing research in areas that are politically or socially "dangerous" or. "Controversal" or whatever.

Note this Warson's error as well... He didn't publish a peer reviewed paper showing evidence of the genetic basis of "Negroid intellectual inferiority", he just shot his mouth off in an offensive way.

And Murray might be worse - because using SOCIAL science to make a biological or genetic point is sloppy to the point of fraud. Was a work even reviewed or did he just write a best seller?
   2653. CrosbyBird Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:51 PM (#4693706)
Are there differences between breeds of dogs?

Dogs are somewhat their own category, because the things humans did with selective breeding were many times more efficient than evolution through random mutation and natural selection. One of the things that really made natural selection seem less farfetched was the Russian fox experiment*. If there's an architect guiding things, fairly dramatic changes can happen very quickly.

Purebred dogs are the result of generations of precise selection for specific traits. Also, a single female dog can birth lots of puppies fairly quickly, so you can keep selecting and selecting and change size, shape, and features as well. Combine that with how easily one can train a dog (a result of around 15,000 years of domestication), and you can make some very precise distinctions. And yet, genetically, they are all very, very similar.

But human intelligence is not like a single slider on your graphic equalizer. Smart people aren't all smart in the same way, and even if we could agree on a definition of smart, we'd recognize tremendous variation within a particular strata. There are highly specialized savants that dominate their particular area without necessarily being generally brilliant: speed readers, polyglots, lightning calculators, and the like. There are brilliant people that can do none of these things much more effectively than others, but a lot of those things a little better. Human intelligence is incredibly complex.

*For those who have never heard of this experiment, it's remarkable. A Russian scientist bred foxes for docile nature** by selecting the ones that were most approachable. Within a fairly small number of generations, several of the foxes became naturally friendly toward human beings, behaving like puppies. But was more remarkable is that the friendly foxes also had dramatic physical changes. They went into heat more often. Their tails got higher on their bodies, and straighter. Their legs got shorter. Their ears became floppy.

**In the other room, they bred the angriest, most aggressive foxes, and they just as rapidly became hateful little critters.
   2654. CrosbyBird Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:55 PM (#4693709)
In terms of how society views proles, I thought it would be interesting to compare the UK and US versions of Shameless. But I haven't actually seen the US version. It's such a British show, tied up with British class issues, that I'm curious how it translates.

I would be too, but from the other direction. I can tell you that it doesn't feel British at all to me.
   2655. Ron J Posted: April 25, 2014 at 12:54 AM (#4693770)
The are also industrious and deferential!


Civ IV say Industious and protective. Or Expansive and protective.
   2656. BrianBrianson Posted: April 25, 2014 at 04:48 AM (#4693798)
Look at the UK, which managed to turn a mighty seafaring empire, renowned for it's boldness and industry, into a pack of trashy, drunken, violent, promiscuous, unemployable human garbage in 50 years or so, largely through government action.


Chavs have been around for at least ten thousand years, in bulk; there's a reason that mighty navy was made up mostly of Rum, Sodomy and the Lash. True, they didn't wear polyester until more recently, but it's hardly a big difference. They pre-date government, and they'll easily post-date it too. A council house and a welfare cheque is a hell of a lot cheaper than a debtor's prison or a workhouse. It's just good economics.
   2657. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: April 25, 2014 at 05:01 AM (#4693799)
St. George's Day came up recently which offered an opportunity to be reminded of the class divide in England yet again. On facebook I had a few friends comment on being a bit unsettled by the various parades. The contrast between the exclusively white, 40-something working class males of the parades, and the absolute befuddlement if not downright scorn of the mostly middle class grouping of people I befriended while going to grad school and playing baseball there have for the day is a tad alarming. Especially considering, at least in theory, it's a celebration of the patron saint of the nation they share.


Yeah, it's interesting. I have noticed a slight uptick in St. George's Day observance among my social group (largely very middle class), I think partly in response to the more visible Scots and Welsh nationalist movements. I was going to say that it all seems a bit silly to me, as the actual St George's connection with England was slight or non-existent, but I'm sure that would sound condescending.

As for GF's comments, if I didn't know they came out of equal parts ignorance and trolling, with a strong undercurrent of hypocrisy, then they might be worth a response. As it is, I recommend not spending the electrons.

EDIT - this might, though, be a good opportunity to re-visit the Scots' independence movement, in which the 'Yes' campaign seems to be very rapidly closing the gap on 'No' with 5 months still to go. The effect seems to be largely due to the implosion of the 'No' ('Better Together') operation, with outright lies, ludicrous prophecies, and a strange choice of figureheads making it look like they're hoping to insult the Scots into being too scared to leave.
   2658. Flynn Posted: April 25, 2014 at 06:18 AM (#4693803)
I think the No vote probably carries the day, but the Better Together campaign needs to tell non-Scots, and especially Tory non-Scots, to butt out.
   2659. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: April 25, 2014 at 06:25 AM (#4693804)
I think the No vote probably carries the day, but the Better Together campaign needs to tell non-Scots, and especially Tory non-Scots, to butt out.


I would think so too, but I wonder whether the Tories aren't seeing this as win-win. If 'Yes' wins, much stronger chance of an outright majority in Westminster without the Scottish MPs. If 'No' wins, they've preserved the Union, which might shore up their UKIP-defecting faction.

The real risk to them seems to me to be the idea that Cameron might have to resign if he's PM when the Union fractures. While I'm not sure Cameron's anything more than a steady presence in No.10, the alternatives look like they could be dramatically poor for the Tories. Boris, potentially, excepted.
   2660. GregD Posted: April 25, 2014 at 07:17 AM (#4693809)
There have been some fascinating pieces in the London Review of Books on the way legal arguments have helped make the independence movemet respectable, especially the way that mainstream Scottish judges started ruling that the British constitution could not merely be th English constitution extended over the entire UK while judges in England continued to rule otherwise. I doubt it is the main issue but is an interesting take on how anti-unionism became respectable and mainstream.

The oil rights will be a big fight if it happens, no?
   2661. Greg K Posted: April 25, 2014 at 07:39 AM (#4693811)
Chavs have been around for at least ten thousand years, in bulk; there's a reason that mighty navy was made up mostly of Rum, Sodomy and the Lash. True, they didn't wear polyester until more recently, but it's hardly a big difference. They pre-date government, and they'll easily post-date it too. A council house and a welfare cheque is a hell of a lot cheaper than a debtor's prison or a workhouse. It's just good economics.


This brings to mind Wellington's variously quoted description of the army:

"The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards."
   2662. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: April 25, 2014 at 08:46 AM (#4693830)
The oil rights will be a big fight if it happens, no?


According to the BBC, the 'Geneva approach' is fairly widely accepted, which would give Scotland 91% of the current revenue (future sources of oil being somewhat uncertain), though I'm sure a surprise Yes vote would tempt the rUK to re-open the debate. The current argument seems to be largely currency and debt - should Scotland be able to share the Pound, and if not, would it still be liable for a share of UK debt?
   2663. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 08:54 AM (#4693831)
I thunk there have been 2 "opportunities" that if taken could have lead to a resolution by now:
1: The Arabs could have accepted the UN Partition plan, or at least bargained/haggled over terms- instead aside form Jordan their response was essentially an absolutely intransigent "no"

2: The Israelis never should have embarked on Jewish settlement in the territory occupied in 1967, the land should always been held as either bargaining chips (Sinai), or they should have set up some semi-autonomous Palestinian government from day 1 (they tried that far too late)
There was no "bargaining chip" in 1967. Israel tried that, but see your #1 - the Arab League met in Khartoum and issued their famous "Three Nos" declaration: no negotiation, no recognition, no peace. Israelis moving to the disputed territories did not happen in significant numbers until after the Yom Kippur War.
   2664. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:00 AM (#4693832)
Ok, enough is enough. Can you all stop calling Rickey! an anti-semite please? You all know he isn't one and calling him that just diminishes anything else you might have to say.
Right; Sam's just a garden variety juvenile delinquent/internet blowhard. Save the serious charges for Retardo.
   2665. BrianBrianson Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:13 AM (#4693841)
the land should always been held as either bargaining chips (Sinai)


And, of course, there were a bunch of settlements in the Sinai that got demolished as part of the Egypt-Israel peace deal. Settlements don't preclude using the land as a bargaining chip.
   2666. Publius Publicola Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:22 AM (#4693847)
Israelis moving to the disputed territories did not happen in significant numbers until after the Yom Kippur War.


When they had more latitude to do so. So it was a decision based on convenience, not politics.
   2667. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:26 AM (#4693855)
I'd like to see them replaced by a chimpanzee. Its amazing we've gone 200+ years with a Supreme Court, and not a single chimpanzee has served on the court.
Well, there was Harry Blackmun
   2668. Publius Publicola Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:30 AM (#4693858)

*For those who have never heard of this experiment, it's remarkable. A Russian scientist bred foxes for docile nature** by selecting the ones that were most approachable. Within a fairly small number of generations, several of the foxes became naturally friendly toward human beings, behaving like puppies. But was more remarkable is that the friendly foxes also had dramatic physical changes. They went into heat more often. Their tails got higher on their bodies, and straighter. Their legs got shorter. Their ears became floppy.

**In the other room, they bred the angriest, most aggressive foxes, and they just as rapidly became hateful little critters.


Sounds a lot like the death row inmate/file clerk experiment.
   2669. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:31 AM (#4693859)
How would that work though? If there were only 8 justices, wouldn't there be a lot of ties? Does Roberts get to be the tiebreaker?
No, there wouldn't be a lot of ties; most cases aren't 5-4, and even for the ones that are, they'd only be ties if one of the "5" retired, not one of the "4." But if there's a tie - no, Roberts doesn't get an extra vote, the there's a tie. The lower court decision stands. It happens sometimes now when there's a recusal.
   2670. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:38 AM (#4693865)
The UK has a massive, self-perpetuating (white) underclass that lives miserable lives filled with violence, drugs, alcohol, single parenthood and unemployment, largely due to a welfare system that strongly incentivizes them to not seek work.


That's hysterical. You sure can live a high on the hog lifestyle on 72 quid a week. Do you read the Daily Mail or something?
How did you get 'high on the hog' out of 'miserable lives filled with violence, drugs, alcohol, single parenthood and unemployment'?
   2671. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:40 AM (#4693866)
Right; Sam's just a garden variety juvenile delinquent/internet blowhard.


You're just jealous that I have the capacity to blow harder than you.
   2672. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:47 AM (#4693871)
How did you get 'high on the hog' out of 'miserable lives filled with violence, drugs, alcohol, single parenthood and unemployment'?


Hookers and blow cost my man.

But your list reminds me how amused I was by the first list: "trashy, drunken, violent, promiscuous, unemployable". Because it is such an odd list. Promiscuous is some terrible tragedy? The whole list is kind of a dismissive and reductive look at how "they" seem to live. Sure violent is pretty bad and no one wants to be unemployable, and obviously alcoholism is bad, but trashy is hardly earth shattering (and is pretty common everywhere, see reality TV for more info) and promiscuity on the same footing as the others? I can see snapper suggesting that, for obvious reasons, but GF?
   2673. BrianBrianson Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:48 AM (#4693873)
How did you get 'high on the hog' out of 'miserable lives filled with violence, drugs, alcohol, single parenthood and unemployment'?


The hog is not a metaphor. It's 400 pounds of pissed off Razorback, and you're strapped to it's backside with 40 kilograms of duct tape. There's your violence. You get the drugs (it's only fair), the hog gets the alcohol (also only fair). You can't get to work, so you're soon unemployed, and once the hog figures out rolling over might get you off it's back, your widow is a single parent.

It's simple logic.
   2674. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:55 AM (#4693876)
But your list reminds me how amused I was by the first list: "trashy, drunken, violent, promiscuous, unemployable". Because it is such an odd list. Promiscuous is some terrible tragedy?


It hasn't hurt the right kind of people, but you can't expect the poors to be sophisticated enough to handle such temptations.
   2675. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 09:57 AM (#4693880)
But your list reminds me how amused I was by the first list: "trashy, drunken, violent, promiscuous, unemployable". Because it is such an odd list. Promiscuous is some terrible tragedy? The whole list is kind of a dismissive and reductive look at how "they" seem to live. Sure violent is pretty bad and no one wants to be unemployable, and obviously alcoholism is bad, but trashy is hardly earth shattering (and is pretty common everywhere, see reality TV for more info) and promiscuity on the same footing as the others? I can see snapper suggesting that, for obvious reasons, but GF?

Well, I would suggest that even if you don't object to some or all of these things from an individual moral standpoint (e.g. you don't think an individual being promiscuous is immoral) the combination and concentration of these characteristics produces miserable conditions for the whole community.
   2676. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:07 AM (#4693884)
Well, I would suggest that even if you don't object to some or all of these things from an individual moral standpoint (e.g. you don't think an individual being promiscuous is immoral) the combination and concentration of these characteristics produces miserable conditions for the whole community.

I wish that everyone on both "sides" of issues like this would learn to keep this distinction in mind.
   2677. Publius Publicola Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:08 AM (#4693885)
No, there wouldn't be a lot of ties


What are you talking about? Here:

Douglas v. Independent Living Center of Southern California (linked with Douglas v. Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital) Argue Date:Oct 3, 2011- Decision Date: Feb 22, 2012: 5-4 Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan

Florence v. Board Of Chosen Freeholders of the County of Burlington Argue Date:Oct 12, 2011 Decision Date: Apr 2, 2012: 5-4 Kennedy, Thomas, Roberts, Scalia, Alito

Missouri v. Frye (linked with Lafler v. Cooper) Argue Date:Oct 31, 2011 Decision Date: Mar 21, 2012 5-4 Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan

Hall v. U.S. Argue Date:Nov 29, 2011 Decision Date: May 14, 2012 5-4 Sotomayer, Thomas, Roberts, Scalia, Alito

Williams v. Illinois Argue Date:Dec 6, 2011 Decision Date: Jun 18, 2012 5-4 Kennedy, Thomas, Roberts, Scalia, Breyer

Coleman v. Maryland Court of Appeals Argue Date:Jan 11, 2012 Decision Date: Mar 20, 2012 5-4 Kennedy, Thomas, Roberts, Scalia, Alito

U.S. v. Home Concrete & Supply Argue Date:Jan 17, 2012 Decision Date: Apr 25, 2012 5-4 Kennedy, Thomas, Roberts, Scalia, Alito

Miller v. Alabama (linked with Jackson v. Hobbs) Argue Date:Mar 20, 2012 Decision Date: Jun 25, 2012 5-4 Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan

U.S. Department of Health and Human Services et al v. Florida Argue Date:Mar 26, 2012 Decision Date: Jun 28, 2012 5-4 Roberts, Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan

National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius Argue Date:Mar 28, 2012 Decision Date: Jun 28, 2012 5-4 Roberts, Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan

Florida et al v U.S. Department of Health and Human Services et al Argue Date:Mar 28, 2012 Decision Date: Jun 28, 2012 5-4 Roberts, Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan

Christopher v. SmithKline Beecham Corp. Argue Date:Apr 17, 2012 Decision Date: Jun 18, 2012 5-4 Kennedy, Thomas, Roberts, Scalia, Alito

Dorsey v. U.S. (consolidated with Hill v. U.S.) Argue Date:Apr 17, 2012 Decision Date: Jun 21, 2012 5-4 Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan

Salazar v. Ramah Navajo Chapter Argue Date:Apr 18, 2012 Decision Date: Jun 18, 2012 5-4 Kennedy, Thomas, Sotomayer, Scalia, Kagan

Douglas v. Independent Living Center of Southern California (linked with Douglas v. Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital) Argue Date:Oct 3, 2011 Decision Date: Feb 22, 2012 5-4 Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan


I'm going to stop here because my fingers are tired from cutting and pasting. I didn't keep track but my guess is about 25% of the cases are being decided 5-4, and the breakdown is nearly uniform- the liberals against the conservatives, with Kennedy usually being the swing vote, except for the cases dealing with ACA, where Roberts instead was the swing vote.

   2678. The Good Face Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:09 AM (#4693887)
Chavs have been around for at least ten thousand years, in bulk; there's a reason that mighty navy was made up mostly of Rum, Sodomy and the Lash. True, they didn't wear polyester until more recently, but it's hardly a big difference. They pre-date government, and they'll easily post-date it too. A council house and a welfare cheque is a hell of a lot cheaper than a debtor's prison or a workhouse. It's just good economics.


But it's not quite the same; at least those proto-chavs from the days of yore managed to serve in the navy. Now they're just shitting up council housing and getting ASBOs. Back in the day, a nob like Wellington might have called them the scum of the earth, but now ordinary middle and working class Britons casually refer to them as "chavscum".

I can see snapper suggesting that, for obvious reasons, but GF?


I'm not religious like Snapper, but we agree (presumably, Snapper can speak for himself) that promiscuity is bad for society.
   2679. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM (#4693888)
I'm not religious like Snapper, but we agree (presumably, Snapper can speak for himself) that promiscuity is bad for society.

I believe it is both bad for society and immoral (bad for the individual, spiritually speaking).
   2680. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:14 AM (#4693890)
I'm not religious like Snapper, but we agree (presumably, Snapper can speak for himself) that promiscuity is bad for society.

Well, I don't agree. People with no jobs and few skills sitting around popping out kids they can't afford is good for society. With the longer life expectancies, modern medicine, and all the shiny new toys we churn out, who wouldn't want to have as many kids as they can?
   2681. BDC Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:15 AM (#4693891)
Well, I'm certainly rethinking my plans for a summer vacation in the UK. I think I'll go somewhere pleasant like Syria or the Crimea instead.
   2682. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:15 AM (#4693894)
they bred the angriest, most aggressive foxes, and they just as rapidly became hateful little critters.


How many of them were baseball-playing foxes?
   2683. The Good Face Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:22 AM (#4693895)
Well, I don't agree. People with no jobs and few skills sitting around popping out kids they can't afford is good for society. With the longer life expectancies, modern medicine, and all the shiny new toys we churn out, who wouldn't want to have as many kids as they can?


I lol'd. BBTF would be so much more entertaining if we weren't allowed to have user names. It would quite literally be impossible to tell the parody from the serious posts.
   2684. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:26 AM (#4693897)
Salazar v. Ramah Navajo Chapter Argue Date:Apr 18, 2012 Decision Date: Jun 18, 2012 5-4 Kennedy, Thomas, Sotomayer, Scalia, Kagan


So Scalia and Thomas (and Kennedy) agreed with Sotomayer and Kagan on something that Breyer, Roberts, Ginsburg and Alito were all opposed to, on the surface I'm baffled, my guess is that a 9-0 vote is far more common than that particular breakdown, anyway:

Plain English Summary: Every contract is a deal between two parties, and both are supposed to perform their part of the deal. That means that, if the job covered by the contract is done as it should be, then that party is entitled to be paid what has been promised. This case involved Indian tribes that sued the government because it did not pay all of the costs it had promised to cover when the two sides made their deal for the tribe to provide education and other government-like functions for their members. The Court ruled that a promise is a promise, even if the government doesn’t have immediately available enough money to pay all of the contractors it had promised to pay for their services. Congress has to locate the money to cover such a promise, the Court said.


So I'm curious, why do Roberts and Ginsburg and Alito and Breyers think the Government can renege on its contracts? Well they actually seem to have a point about the contract language (and statute governing same):
Today the Court concludes that the Federal Government must pay the full amount of contract support costs incurred by the respondent Tribes, regardless of whether there are any appropriated funds left for that purpose. This despite the facts that payment of such costs is "subject to the availability of appropriations," a condition expressly set forth in both the statute and the contracts providing for such payment, 2196*2196 25 U.S.C. §§ 450j-1(b), 450l(c) (Model Agreement § 1(b)(4)); that payment of the costs for all tribes is "not to exceed" a set amount, e.g., 108 Stat. 2511, an amount that would be exceeded here; and that the Secretary "is not required to reduce funding for programs, projects, or activities serving a tribe to make funds available to another tribe," § 450j-1(b). Because the Court's conclusion cannot be squared with these unambiguous restrictions on the payment of contract support costs, I respectfully dissent.
The Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act provides: "Notwithstanding any other provision in [the Act], the provision of funds under this [Act] is subject to the availability of appropriations...." Ibid. This condition is repeated in the Tribes' contracts with the Government. App. 206; see also § 450l(c) (Model Agreement § 1(b)(4)). The question in this case is whether appropriations were "available" during fiscal years 1994 through 2001 to pay all the contract support costs incurred by the Tribes. Only if appropriations were "available" may the Tribes hold the Government liable for the unpaid amounts.
***
This is hardly a typical government contracts case. Many government contracts contain a "subject to the availability of appropriations" clause, and many appropriations statutes contain "not to exceed" language. But this case involves not only those provisions but a third, relieving the Secretary of any obligation to make funds "available" to one contractor by reducing payments to others. Such provisions will not always appear together, but when they do, we must give them effect. Doing so here, I would hold that the Tribes are not entitled to payment of their contract support costs in full, and I would reverse the contrary judgment of the Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit.
   2685. BrianBrianson Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:27 AM (#4693899)
Now they're just shitting up council housing and getting ASBOs.


Well, housing them in Australia was cheaper, but these days the Aussies just send 'em back. Could let them take up their historic professions like prostitution, pickpocketting, and highwaymanship, but frankly, it's much cheaper to stuff them into council housing (and really, I live in a block that's mostly council housing, and apart from occasionally leaving beer tins on our welcome mat, they're not particularly annoying. They would make the local Weatherspoon's a total ########, if they hadn't been beaten to that by the builder, but there are better pubs about anyhow.
   2686. Publius Publicola Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:29 AM (#4693901)
my guess is that a 9-0 vote is far more common than that particular breakdown,


It is. Wayyy more common.
   2687. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:30 AM (#4693903)
It would quite literally be impossible to tell the parody from the serious posts.
If you really can't tell from that post you have serious neurological issues, somewhere at the deep end of the autism spectrum perhaps.
   2688. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:30 AM (#4693904)
Now they're just shitting up council housing and getting ASBOs.

Lionel Asbo: State of England.

Good read.
   2689. Publius Publicola Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:35 AM (#4693909)
Oh and by the way, expect a Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine sometime this weekend:

Russia Begins Military Exercises Near Border After Violence in Eastern Ukraine

   2690. The Good Face Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:36 AM (#4693911)
Could let them take up their historic professions like prostitution, pickpocketting, and highwaymanship, but frankly, it's much cheaper to stuff them into council housing


But you just said before that they were serving in the navy back in the days of yore. That seems much more productive and beneficial to society than stuffing them in council houses and letting them rot.
   2691. The Good Face Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:41 AM (#4693916)
If you really can't tell from that post you have serious neurological issues, somewhere at the deep end of the autism spectrum perhaps.


Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but that's the argument BM made earlier in this thread. Who cares about a permanant and hopeless underclass living in horrifying dysfunction! GDP is up, people are living longer than ever and look, iPhones are awesome!
   2692. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:42 AM (#4693917)
Oh and by the way, expect a Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine sometime this weekend:

I am shocked, shocked, that Putin didn't live up to the Geneva "agreement".

Who'd have ever believed mild travel restrictions on 30 people wouldn't be enough to intimidate an aggressor nation.
   2693. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 25, 2014 at 10:58 AM (#4693927)
It's great that the peace of Europe (and, really, the world) is again dependent on the whims and fancies of a single dictator.
   2694. spike Posted: April 25, 2014 at 11:07 AM (#4693935)
   2695. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 25, 2014 at 11:07 AM (#4693936)
Oh, never mind: S&P cut its rating on Russian bonds, so now Putin will realize how much his actions have "cost" and will pull back.

It's all good.
   2696. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 25, 2014 at 11:19 AM (#4693944)
Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but that's the argument BM made earlier in this thread. Who cares about a permanant and hopeless underclass living in horrifying dysfunction! GDP is up, people are living longer than ever and look, iPhones are awesome!


No I did not, but I am used to people (mostly you and Joe K) intentionally misreading my posts.
   2697. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 25, 2014 at 11:21 AM (#4693945)
Oh and by the way, expect a Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine sometime this weekend


If he's going to do it easily the clock is ticking, Ukraine has a ton of military equipment, tanks, guns, anti-tank guns, anti-aircraft guns (Most all former SSRS do), but most of it was mothballed in storage, Ukraine has now been trying frantically to restore a lot of this stuff to service the past 2 months, plus they've been figuring out which military units can or cannot be counted on to be loyal to Kiev.

The Government in Kiev is still more or less corrupt and dysfunctional, but existential threats tend to be clarify one's purpose. 2 months ago Kiev wouldn't have been able to muss Putin's hair if he invaded,now they can, given another month or two maybe they could bloody his nose- they'd still lose if Putin was determined but the Russians wouldn't be able to invade without costs.

I still think Putin has no intention of invading and occupying the non-Russophone parts of Ukraine, he's going to insist that him carving the "Russian" part of Ukraine off of Ukraine is no different than when NATO carved Kosovo off of Serbia (The fact that the Serbs were in fact attempting to ethnically cleanse the non-Serbs and the Ukrainians are not doing the same won't deter him, he'll simply lie and say they are- and in act he's been lying about that)
   2698. BrianBrianson Posted: April 25, 2014 at 11:24 AM (#4693950)

But you just said before that they were serving in the navy back in the days of yore.


Well, both, of course, but building naval ships is a lot pricier than building council houses. And, as I recall, the Brits gave up pressing people into the Navy because the Americans were grumpy about it. Not sure that road's a net positive.

He only real difference is that chavs in the 1600s didn't get to write books, and now their visibility is a lot higher due to things like Geordie Shore. If I had to guess, I suspect they're a lot less common now than they were two hundred years ago, because public education is a lot more available (although the public education in Britain is pretty abysmal), But it's hard to say. But (as always) "kids these days" complaints should be laughed at until there's evidence they're actually true. It's a perception based mostly on survivor statistics.

Furniture built in the 1930s wasn't of higher quality than furniture built today. But furniture built in the 1930s is of higher quality than that built today, because the junk built then has already been destroyed. It's a significant statistical bias.
   2699. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 25, 2014 at 11:30 AM (#4693956)
I still think Putin has no intention of invading and occupying the non-Russophone parts of Ukraine, he's going to insist that him carving the "Russian" part of Ukraine off of Ukraine is no different than when NATO carved Kosovo off of Serbia (The fact that the Serbs were in fact attempting to ethnically cleanse the non-Serbs and the Ukrainians are not doing the same won't deter him, he'll simply lie and say they are- and in act he's been lying about that)


This may well be true. I hope he doesn't and if he does I believe it will end up hurting Russia (and of course Ukraine), but people do dumb things sometimes.

In any event, no matter what happens, it is sure to be Obama's fault :)
   2700. spike Posted: April 25, 2014 at 11:32 AM (#4693962)
The Government in Kiev is still more or less corrupt and dysfunctional, but existential threats tend to be clarify one's purpose. 2 months ago Kiev wouldn't have been able to muss Putin's hair if he invaded,now they can, given another month or two maybe they could bloody his nose- they'd still lose if Putin was determined but the Russians wouldn't be able to invade without costs.

At the risk of repeating myself, If there is an actual shooting war in Ukraine, it will be a catastrophe for Putin regardless of outcome. Sharing a border with a country the size and population of Ukraine will guarantee a thoroughly nasty asymmetrical conflict that will suck considerable blood and treasure from Russia for decades.
Page 27 of 48 pages ‹ First  < 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
JPWF13
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

Newsblog2014 WORLD SERIES GAME 3 OMNICHATTER
(403 - 10:59pm, Oct 24)
Last: Jeltzandini

NewsblogOT: Politics, October 2014: Sunshine, Baseball, and Etch A Sketch: How Politicians Use Analogies
(3732 - 10:54pm, Oct 24)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogDid Adam Dunn Ruin Baseball? – The Hardball Times
(72 - 10:08pm, Oct 24)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - October 2014
(381 - 9:55pm, Oct 24)
Last: RollingWave

NewsblogHow top World Series players ranked as prospects. | SportsonEarth.com : Jim Callis Article
(18 - 9:40pm, Oct 24)
Last: puck

NewsblogBuster Olney on Twitter: "Sources: Manager Joe Maddon has exercised an opt-out clause in his contract and is leaving the Tampa Bay Rays immediately."
(76 - 9:25pm, Oct 24)
Last: boteman

NewsblogCurt Schilling not hiding his scars - ESPN Boston
(17 - 8:40pm, Oct 24)
Last: DJS and the Infinite Sadness

NewsblogRoyals get four AL Gold Glove finalists, but not Lorenzo Cain | The Kansas City Star
(13 - 8:11pm, Oct 24)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogJohn McGrath: The Giants have become the Yankees — obnoxious | The News Tribune
(5 - 8:05pm, Oct 24)
Last: Baldrick

NewsblogBeaneball | Gold Gloves and Coco Crisp's Terrible 2014 Defense
(2 - 7:47pm, Oct 24)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread, September 2014
(915 - 7:37pm, Oct 24)
Last: CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(871 - 7:22pm, Oct 24)
Last: Jim Wisinski

NewsblogDealing or dueling – what’s a manager to do? | MGL on Baseball
(67 - 6:38pm, Oct 24)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogThe ‘Little Things’ – The Hardball Times
(2 - 6:34pm, Oct 24)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

Newsblog9 reasons Hunter Pence is the most interesting man in the World (Series) | For The Win
(15 - 5:31pm, Oct 24)
Last: zonk

Page rendered in 1.2529 seconds
52 querie(s) executed